MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 178 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Reincarnation (was RE: Kal'enedral) by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 2) Re: _Jinx High_ by Mat Timmerman 3) Re: Alright... by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 4) Re: Alright... by Gyrfalcon 5) RE: dreamtime by Adrienne York 6) Valdemar's Deity? by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 7) Heather Alexander/Misty Music by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 8) RE: Kal'enedral by Adrienne York 9) RE: Kal'enedral by Adrienne York 10) Re:Misty's Music by Adrienne York 11) Re: pagan survey by owl 12) uniforms/tayledras outfits/etc by CHONNI 13) RE: Kal'enedral by Catherine A Murdoch 14) Re: physical science in Valdemar by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 15) RE: dreamtime by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 16) Re: Alright... by Sandy Haas 17) Re: Alright... by Gyrfalcon 18) Re:Misty's Music by Gyrfalcon 19) Re: Reincarnation (was RE: Kal'enedral) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 20) Re: Alright... by Mat Timmerman ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 11:33:10 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Reincarnation (was RE: Kal'enedral) Message-ID: <9510151823.AA29962-+AT+-baker> >Sanna wrote: >>Do the souls get memory-wiped at rebirth? > >IMO, yes. Or at least, those being reborn as regular mortals do. >IMO, Tylendel/Stefen's retention of ties to Vanyel was unusual and the >result of how bizarrre his circumstances were. > >-jenneke Somehow I got the impression that Companions had some memory of their lives as Heralds, and thus much of their mysterious knowledge. The Star-Eyed said that Companions were like her lesha- Kalendral, or the dead swordsworn who help train the living Kalendral. When I read that I assumed that the relationship between Herald and Companion was much the same. The Living Herald guided by the knowledge of one who had lived before. Thus all the secrecy of the Companions and, as I 've said before, the companion's secret gifts. Anyone agree or dissagree with this? Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 16:15:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: _Jinx High_ Message-ID: <01HWH46Z5PS28ZI3D6-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> >From: Carmel Vivier >>>From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" >> >>a bunch of stuff snipped... >> >>> >>>Fourth, it doesn't seem like Deke and Tannim are as close in _JH_ as >>>Tannim remembers them being in _CC_. Is their buddy-dom solely from >>>senior year? That would mean that Deke adjusted *real* fast to being >>>Gifted, since Tannim reminisces about doing road jobs with Deke during >>>high school at the beginning of _CC_. >> >>It seems like they became friends after the events of Jinx High. I don't >>remember if Tannim actually said that their "jobs" were during HS. I >>got the impression that they happened some time later. >> >>Mat T. > > >I'm new to the list (I've just started reading ML books, Children of the >Night and Burning Water) and don't know what book you are referring to when >you use _CC_. Could someone enlighten me. > >I'm still waiting for Jinx High to come into the book store, looks like I've >read these books out of order (Burning Water and Children of the Night and >waiting to read Jinx High). > >Carmel Vivier When I mentioned _CC_, I was talking about _Chrome Circle_, a book from Misty's SERRAted Edge series. The main character of this book (and of _Born to Run_), named Tannim, shows up as a kid in _Jinx High_. So far, you've read the Di Tregarde books in the order that they were published. The best order in which to read them though (chronalogical) is: _Children of the Night_, _Burning Water_, and _Jinx High_. If you're new to Misty's (Mercedes Lackey -- Misty is her nickname), try her Velgarth books (Heralds of Valdemar Trilogy, Last Herald Mage Trilogy, Vows and Honor Duology, etc). They're the most prolific of her series, and probably the best. Mat T. -- Mat Timmerman "They want to stop the ones who want accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu prosthetic foreheads on their heads. But mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu everybody wants prosthetic foreheads on their real heads." -- They Might Be Giants ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 16:45:39 -0400 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright... Message-ID: <9510152045.AA20875-+AT+-water.waterw.com> > >Alright, Who killed the list? > Sheesh, I go into a coma for a few days and the list dies. > >Who was it, come on, 'fess up. > >--Gyrfalcon > Oh, boy, am *I* glad somebody else has gotten no traffic! I just sent a message to the List Admin because I thought I'd gotten accidentally unsubscribed!! (Don't laugh, it's happened to me before :) Jeanne Hedge jhedge-+AT+-water.waterw.com 75512.1214-+AT+-compuserve.com ================================================================ "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink..." --Samuel Taylor Coleridge, 'The Rime of the Ancient Mariner' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 19:35:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright... Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Oct 1995, Hank Cannon wrote: > What are you talking about? > Who killed what list? Nevermind. --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 20:21:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: dreamtime Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Gjuka wrote: > OK, this is in responce to the theory about Kero and Eldan and how they > comunicated. Some one mentioned the Dreaming from the Sandman comics, and > I compared that to the idea of the Dreamtime. OK, well I just found a > quote that says the Dreamtime really does exist on Velgarth. in Magic;s > Price pg 135 Yfandes says... > > > ":Where are you?: she repeted, her mind voice warm and amused. :You're > dreaming of course. Or rather, in the Dreamtime. There is a diffrence.:" > > > So at least we know it exists, even if we don't know that Eldan and Kero > comunicated that way. Still, since they spoke in dreams, it makes it at > least likely. And since Yfandes was there, it doesn't look like you have > to be lifebonded in order to speak there. I also prepose that space may be > diffrent in the Dreamtime , thus distance would not be a factor. I think > this is a kind of magic Heralds arn't familiar with and perhaps Shamans or > non-human races work with more often. > Maybe Dreamtime is just a slightly more conscious manifestation of the Collective Unconscious????? ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 10:35:05 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Valdemar's Deity? Message-ID: <9510160035.AA08299-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Was re-reading the Black Gryphon before diving into the WG and it occurred to me that perhaps Valdemar doesn't have a deity watching over it at all, but rather that it might be Urtho's spirit guiding them. I'm not sure exactly why it occurred to me :) , I think it was something in the way the gryphons were created / behaved that struck me as very similar to the companions. Also the Kaledain weren't Urtho's own people whereas the ancestors of the Valdemarans might have been. (Does anyone else have an inordinate tendancy to spell Valdemar as 'Valdemaar'? I wonder if 'Valde' meant anything in one of the original languages.. enemy perhaps?) Anyway, enough speculating. Kerry. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Kerry J Mealing mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com "Wandering by lonely sea-breakers and sitting by desolate streams.." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 18:43:04 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Heather Alexander/Misty Music Message-ID: <9510160133.AA05857-+AT+-baker> Hey for all the Heather Alexander (she sings on some of Misty's tapes for those who don't know) fans out there, I just found out she has her own Web site at http://www.teleport.com/~seafire/ It's pretty cool. Check out the Heatherlands! -Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 00:05:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Kal'enedral Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Oct 1995 RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com wrote: (snip) > I think that there are 3 types of Companions, not 2. > > There are the Grove Born, who seem to be "higher" guardian > spirits. > > There are reincarnated Heralds, this seems fairly clear from (snip) > > BUT! I think that there are extremely few Grove Born, in > fact only 2 that we know of. And of the rest, I don't believe > all of them are reincarnated Heralds. I think some are. But > the rest are simply lower guardian spirits, benign spirits of > the ethereal planes. > > There is, as far as I know, not one iota of proof that ALL non- > Groveborn Companions are ex-Heralds. Some certainly. Like > Sayvil, and a few others. But every one??? Nope, don't buy it. > > Anyone want to offer some more *proof*?? > I don't have proof. But I do have something some intelligent person said. I don't remember who, but it could have been Sherlock Holmes. "Take the simplest possible solution that will fit all the known facts." Or words to that effect. My point is, if we know there are Heralds who become Companions, and GB, why are we needlessly complicating things? ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 00:17:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Kal'enedral Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Sunfalcon wrote: (snip) > Which brings me to my next point. The most persuasive argument I > can think of for the > "some-Companions-are-Guardian-spirits-on-earth-for-the-first-time" theory > is the fact that some of them make serious mistakes, mistakes that a > lifetime's worth of experience might have prevented. I'm thinking > primarily of Gala here (I know, I know, the whole repudiation thread has > been covered several times already, but. . . ), although I'm sure there > are other examples. What, you think old people don't make serious, big mistakes? There were things like the Vietnam War, Hiroshima, and slavery, all of which were started ny people who l think were old enough to know better. > Now I have some questions of my own, both of which involve > spoilers from Storm Warning (and probably Storm Rising, too, though I > haven't read it yet). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, here we go. . . > Did anyone else find the whole reaction to Florian's announcement > a bit odd? Here we have a Companion calmly saying that he can function > as a Master-level Mage, and, aside from Elspeth's jaw dropping, NO ONE > SEEMS TO REALLY CARE. I find this very disturbing, especially the fact > that since magic has only recently "returned" to Valdemar, Florian (a > Mage-Gifted Companion) was born before the prohibition was lifted. Have you noticed that Valdemarans have an intense ability to ignore magical happenings. In fact, they can be downright thick. And the Companions have previously evinced the ability to control people's thoughts. If they decided that the Heralds weren't going to react to it, they wouldn't. And the other mages involved really don't know that much about what Companion capabilities supposedly are. (snip of a lot of things I shan't talk about.) > Lastly, we've heard several times that the Shin'a'in are guarding > all sorts of really nasty weapons that are buried in the plains and still > potentially active. And the plains were the site of URTHO's stronghold. > What about Ma'ar? So what if his city is buried under Lake Evendim? > Shouldn't there be at least some sort of watch placed over whatever > goodies he left behind? > Has anyone identified a deity watching over Lake Evendim? Also, why would Ma'ar have left evil weapons? He could have used them already. Or they could have been triggered by that big explosion at his death. Remember, Ma'ar's primary shielding concern would have been the prevention of theft, not providing safeguards for his underlings. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 00:19:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Misty's Music Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, William Jones wrote: > You wrote: > > While we're on the subject of Misty's Music.... I can't figure out the > meaning of the song "Draw the Circle" on the By the Sword soundtrack... > Mabey I'm just dense, but it almost sounds like a kind of incantation > to me! > > Draw the circle 'tween two worlds. > Celestial fires to clense the girl. > One to watch, and one to pray, > and one to bear her soul away. > > The moon is every woman's friend, > to her your goodness can decend (?) > So tonight in visions see > the emblems of her destiny. > > - Shadow-Lover > Sounds like they're talking about somebody achieving power once they commence menstruating. But it could be something else entirely. That's just what it sounds like to me. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 00:21:33 EST From: owl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: pagan survey Message-ID: <5006AF7D17-+AT+-main.rmwc.edu> I am also a pagan, but started reading Lackey when I was a Christian (no cause and effect here, though !) Love her books, think that they are great regardless of one's religion. Have to say though, that I am very tolerant towards others' choices--and that includes all forms of Christianity. I might not agree with a person's views, but tolerance has to go BOTH ways, and the most obvious place to start is with me :^) Sorry, but I am bothered by intolerant pagans. Owl "I never let my schooling interfere with my education" Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 22:43:03 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey list Subject: uniforms/tayledras outfits/etc Message-ID: Heyla, my computer hates the modem, and it cuts into my email time. I'll make this quick; is there anyone who is interested in making a herald uniform, but like me, can't design a uniform? I'm looking for patterns, and ideas for doing so, or even putting together a collection of patterns. Anyone interested? Has something already been done along these lines? If this is too mundane a subject, email me at k_moll-+AT+-cariboo.bc.ca. Thanks! *********************************************************************** -Chonni Brightwolf (Katherine Moll, student) University College of the Cariboo British Columbia, CANADA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 17:59:08 +1000 (EST) From: Catherine A Murdoch To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Kal'enedral Message-ID: If a Herald dies, is reincarnated as a Companion, then dies as a Companion, maybe he/she just retires i.e. goes to the Havens (for a well-earned rest). -- -- Catherine Murdoch | Internet: ulcam-+AT+-dewey.newcastle.edu.au Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 217147 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 "If man could be crossed with a cat, it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat." - Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:10:43 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: physical science in Valdemar Message-ID: <9510160910.AA05221-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> > I don't know if there is any rule - one possibility is to wait until > the paperback comes out. But that is often a year after the hard back. > Perhaps 6 months is a reasonable period? "Until the paperback comes out" is not a bad idea, especially since not everyone gets the books published at the same time. (Although some of us rely on imports, and some order from the places where they're published first....) Mel (who bought "Fire Rose" on import at the weekend) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 11:59:44 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: dreamtime Message-ID: <9510161059.AA02629-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> > > So at least we know it exists, even if we don't know that Eldan and Kero > > comunicated that way. Still, since they spoke in dreams, it makes it at > > least likely. And since Yfandes was there, it doesn't look like you have > > to be lifebonded in order to speak there. I also prepose that space may be > > diffrent in the Dreamtime , thus distance would not be a factor. I think > > this is a kind of magic Heralds arn't familiar with and perhaps Shamans or > > non-human races work with more often. > > > Maybe Dreamtime is just a slightly more conscious manifestation of the > Collective Unconscious????? > I've always thought of it as similar to the -- argh, I'm blanking on the name, is it the Overworld? -- in the Darkover books. (Although I don't for a moment assert that Bradley invented the idea; it's just that that is where I take my mental image from.) Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 08:18:00 EDT From: Sandy Haas To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright... Message-ID: <3D2300698F-+AT+-rackham.umich.edu> > Alright, Who killed the list? > Sheesh, I go into a coma for a few days and the list dies. > > Who was it, come on, 'fess up. > > --Gyrfalcon > It was me--I was bored. So...what are YOU going to do about it?? :} obviously, still bored..... Sandy Haas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:07:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright... Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Oct 1995, Sandy Haas wrote: > > Alright, Who killed the list? > > Sheesh, I go into a coma for a few days and the list dies. > > > > Who was it, come on, 'fess up. > It was me--I was bored. So...what are YOU going to do about it?? I'll send the men in white after you... (Piers Anthony fans who like to pretand that they belong to the David Eddings circle.) Watch out or they'll dart you and drag you away to a 22 hour Xanth reading in an attempt to brainwash and convert you. Look at Ian's sig if you don't believe me. --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:29:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Misty's Music Message-ID: > While we're on the subject of Misty's Music.... I can't figure out the > meaning of the song "Draw the Circle" on the By the Sword soundtrack... > Mabey I'm just dense, but it almost sounds like a kind of incantation > to me! > > Draw the circle 'tween two worlds. > Celestial fires to clense the girl. > One to watch, and one to pray, > and one to bear her soul away. > > The moon is every woman's friend, > to her your goodness can decend (?) > So tonight in visions see > the emblems of her destiny. Not so much an incantation, but maybe the report of the results of one... Perhaps a deathwatch? Sounds like something a shaman or priest would do when a person died, to console the family or the like. Rambling on and on, --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 11:36:15 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Reincarnation (was RE: Kal'enedral) Message-ID: <199510161536.LAA20862-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Gjuka wrote: >jenneke wrote: >>Sanna wrote: >>>Do the souls get memory-wiped at rebirth? >>IMO, yes. Or at least, those being reborn as regular mortals do. >>IMO, Tylendel/Stefen's retention of ties to Vanyel was unusual and the >>result of how bizarrre his circumstances were. >Somehow I got the impression that Companions had some memory of their lives >as Heralds, and thus much of their mysterious knowledge. Odd. I'd never have classed the Companions as regular mortals. :-) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 13:08:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright... Message-ID: <01HWIC60HMU48ZI5RN-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Jeanne Hedge >> >>Alright, Who killed the list? >> Sheesh, I go into a coma for a few days and the list dies. >> >>Who was it, come on, 'fess up. >> >>--Gyrfalcon >> > >Oh, boy, am *I* glad somebody else has gotten no traffic! I just sent a >message to the List Admin because I thought I'd gotten accidentally >unsubscribed!! (Don't laugh, it's happened to me before :) Heck, it _did_ happen to me! I thought the list was just slow, so I checked the member list, and of course, I wasn't on it. And that, just a day or two after my other list's server unsubscribed the _whole_ list. Sheesh. Mat T. -- Mat Timmerman "They want to stop the ones who want accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu prosthetic foreheads on their heads. But mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu everybody wants prosthetic foreheads on their real heads." -- They Might Be Giants ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 178 *********************************