MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 181 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Reincarnation by Adrienne York 2) Re: Star-eyed aspects by dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) 3) Re: pagan "definition" by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 4) RE: Reincarnation by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 5) RE: Lake Evendim (was Re: Kal'enedral) by dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) 6) How long for spoiler warnings? by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 7) Re: How many times aroud? (was RE: Kal'enedral) by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 8) RE: Lake Evendim, reincarnation, & religion by Adrienne York 9) Re: pagan survey by Adrienne York 10) Misty's Music by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 11) Re: Re:(Non)Misty's Music by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 12) Re: How many times aroud? (was RE: Kal'enedral) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 13) Re: again, three things: Vany... by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 14) Re: A new book to recommend by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 15) Re: pagan survey by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 16) RE: Kal'enedral by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 17) Re: pagan survey by KJohn20849-+AT+-aol.com 18) Re: Reincarnation by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 19) Re: A new book to recommend by Anne Cross 20) Re: uniforms/tayledras outfits/etc by Amy Mason 21) Re: Sciences in Valdemar by CHONNI 22) Re: sorry, I forgot by duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) 23) RE: Lake Evendim, reincarnation, & religion by "David K. Storrs" 24) Re: Reincarnation (was RE: Kal'enedral) by Mikkel Larsen 25) Re: Valdemar's Deity? by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 26) Re:(Non)Misty's Music by ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) 27) Re: Re:Misty's Music by ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 11:55:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Reincarnation Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Oct 1995 RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com wrote: > Just to throw another fly in the ointment, what makes everyone > so sure that Grove Born Companions are *not* reincarnated > Heralds? Perhaps, like the Firecats, monarchs of Valdemar > come back as GBCs? Or just the best Heralds? Any Monarch who tried the kind of manipulation Gwena did would right soon get put in her place, and none of the best Heralds we have seen would have done something like a Grand Destiny except in dire circumstances, and frankly, the circumstances weren't so dire that Gwena's plan was the only available and practical path. And who would the original GBCs have been, hmmm? ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:46:12 -0400 From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Star-eyed aspects Message-ID: <199510181446.KAA15160-+AT+-prague.crossover.com> >>>On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, David K. Storrs wrote (among other things not quoted here) >>> >>>> -- Not to start a new thread or anything, but does anyone else out there >>>> have/enjoy Misty's music/filk in general? >> >> >>Yes, yes and double yes. Anyone else out there moved to tears by the entire >>cd "Shadowstalker" ? Although almost a year late in the production, >>Firebird Arts & Music delivered the promised release into my sweaty little >>hands and it's been love ever since! The song "Shadowlover" and "Windrider >>Unchained" are two of the most hauntingly beautiful songs I've ever had the >>pleasure of hearing. Misty and crew....Bravissimo! >> >>Firefly > > >Yes, I loved Shadowstalker, I think it's my favorite, but i'm hard pressed >between that and By the Sword. Does any one know if Lovers Lore and Loss or >Quest of the Dream Warrior are worth getting? I'm particularly curious >about the last. Anyone heard that one yet? Clues as to what it's about? > >Colette > > >gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com > > > I've got QotDW...actually, I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, although I've had it for quite a while. In general, I like the music quite a bit although it is too thin on vocals for my taste, being mostly instrumental. It also comes with some of the worst fiction that I have ever read which, I am shamed to say, seems to have been written by Misty....at first I figured it had to be David Arkenstone's maunderings, but as far as I can tell from the credits, that ain't so. Still, the music ain't bad. If you can get it for not-too-much, I'd say go for it. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 11:00:43 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: pagan "definition" Message-ID: For the record and comparative-survey purposes, I am a very tolerant Roman Catholic with "pagan sympathies" as it were. I try to recognize the sacred in all persons/creatures/creations, etc. Although it gets really difficult when I watch the news ! Peace to all! Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 11:03:47 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Reincarnation Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Oct 1995 RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com wrote: > Just to throw another fly in the ointment, what makes everyone > so sure that Grove Born Companions are *not* reincarnated > Heralds? Perhaps, like the Firecats, monarchs of Valdemar > come back as GBCs? Or just the best Heralds? > > Just another thought. Wouldn't want things to slow > down too much! > > StarWolf > We're going to have more flies than ointment at this rate, StarWolf!! Interesting thought, tho.....hmmmmm...... uh oh, brain is starting to overload ....... Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:56:09 -0400 From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lake Evendim (was Re: Kal'enedral) Message-ID: <199510181456.KAA15172-+AT+-prague.crossover.com> [ His vorpal editor went snicker snee... ] [ re: anything ma'ar may have left behind under Lake Evendim ] >> > >I think there would have been _something_ there, though probably >nothing as massive as Urtho's weaponry, for precisely those reasons. >But, more importantly, Lake Evendim is a lake (surprise! ) - a big >one, at that. It might not _need_ guardians; who is going to get the >weapons or whatever from there? >I can't remember any aquatic races, submarines haven't been invented >(yet..) and while a mage might be able to breathe water, there's >still the water pressure etc. to consider. (Of course, when we're >talking of mages powerful enough to level a city...) > > > -Seanna > As a certified SCUBA diver (albeit not having dived in years), I would just like to say that I don't think any mage, no matter how powerful, could cope with all the problems of deep-water search-and-recovery. At even a piddly little 300 feet you have: 1) Lack of air 2) Water pressure of 10 atmospheres (147 lbs/sqr. inch -- not a problem if you are breathing compressed air so that internal/external pressure balances, but a BIG problem otherwise) 3) Nitrogen narcosis -- causing symptomps very similar to drunkenness, including lack of judgement 4) Oxygen poisoning -- at around that depth, oxygen actually becomes toxic, and it is necessary to breathe a helium/oxygen mix 5) Decompression sickness -- "the bends". Unless the mage could remove nitrogen from his own bloodstream magically, he'd be virtually assured of dying from an embolism (expansion of gas bubbles in the blood, due to a sudden dropping of pressure) on the way up...most mages wouldn't know to watch for this (I would assume) and would be dead or paralyzed before they could react. Your pardon if I'm ranting, it's just that this topic interested me. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 11:08:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: How long for spoiler warnings? Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Oct 1995, Mat Timmerman wrote: > Yeah, but people are still listing Storm Warning stuff as spoilers, > and its been out in paperback since, like July or August. > For my own part, I was trying extra-hard to be polite and considerate (I'm also trying to save all of the SR spoilers so I can look at them after I read it!). Maybe two months after the release of the paperback? How does that sound to everyone? Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 11:15:22 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: How many times aroud? (was RE: Kal'enedral) Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Rosario Holsen-Baker wrote: > On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: > > > > > > Here's a question for you; a Herald dies, and is given the choice > > > to come back as a Companion. He does, serves for a while, and then dies as > > > a Companion. What happens next? > > > > > Cruel, Dave, real cruel. But a GOOD question? IF its only CERTAIN > > Heralds that takes that Choice (like Savil, etc., who are needed at > > certain points in history), perhaps they can choose again, to come back > > at a time of Valdemar's need? > They do! Remember... No, I don't remember - haven't read it yet! I'm an unrepentant paperback snob ! It's a holdover from ultra poor days (not that I'm rich by any means now, just more comfortable) and so ALL of my ML books are in paperback, so the whole set is going to be paperback. So I'm waiting, skipping spoilers (saving them to read later......), chewing my fingernails....pulling my hair.....SIGH. But thanks for the tip!! Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:53:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lake Evendim, reincarnation, & religion Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Oct 1995, CHONNI wrote: > Re: reincarnation... > Remember how the Shadowlover offered Vanyel a choice between the Havens > and serving Valdemar? Maybe really good and potentially useful Heralds > are offered the same choice when they die. These heralds might not even > have to wait until some future date to be reincarnated; if death were > timeless, then they could just be bumped up to their birth as a Companion > without time to readjust, learn how to deal with being a Companion for > their first few years of life and then bang! they have to choose > someone. Just a thought... > Why would they have to wait to be reincarnated at a propitious moment? Why couldn't they go around multiple times, starting from right after their foaling? And if they got tired of Companioning Heralds, they'd just take a little break in the Havens, and come back refreshed... ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:57:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: pagan survey Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Catherine Osborne wrote: > friends are Xian or Jewish or muslim. (I know, i know, but its really What's Xian? ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 9:59:18 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Misty's Music Message-ID: <951018095918.22402515-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> >>> -- Not to start a new thread or anything, but does anyone else out there >>> have/enjoy Misty's music/filk in general? > >>Yes, yes and double yes. Anyone else out there moved to tears by the entire >>cd "Shadowstalker" ? Although almost a year late in the production, >>Firebird Arts & Music delivered the promised release into my sweaty little >>hands and it's been love ever since! The song "Shadowlover" and "Windrider >>Unchained" are two of the most hauntingly beautiful songs I've ever had the >>pleasure of hearing. Misty and crew....Bravissimo! >>Firefly >Yes, I loved Shadowstalker, I think it's my favorite, but i'm hard pressed >between that and By the Sword. Does any one know if Lovers Lore and Loss or >Quest of the Dream Warrior are worth getting? I'm particularly curious >about the last. Anyone heard that one yet? Clues as to what it's about? >Colette I have LL&L, and Quest of the Dream Warrior. Quest is good, if you like a slow melodic type of song (which I do, sometimes). LL&L has been discussed already. Quest makes great background music, and it's very relaxing. It's *not* rockin' music though! There's a Misty "story" with it, in the little CD booklet, but I don't think it's worth it for that. However, Firebird was, and may still be, selling autographed copies of Quest with Misty's and David Arkenstone (the song-writer) sigs. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 13:25:06 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Re:(Non)Misty's Music Message-ID: <199510181725.NAA22658-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Ned wrote: >BTW: Does anyone have any suggestions as to any other groups with this >style (Celtic Rock) I have some money to spend and the Firebird catalog, >and I'm trying to decide between Wolfstone, more Tempest, Boiled in Lead, >or something else. Thanks IMO, the best way to find out about 'new' Celtic music is via a PBS radio show out of Charlotte, called "Thistle and Shamrock", with Fiona Ritchie(sp?). US folks can just ask you local PBS station. Non-US folks, if there's interest, I can probably find the relevant address... -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 13:32:42 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: How many times aroud? (was RE: Kal'enedral) Message-ID: <199510181732.NAA22669-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Rosario Holsen-Baker wrote: > All right, any speculations on who Florian was? Anyone but Savil, Jaysen, or Vanyel? My current pet theory is (drum roll)... Randale's father. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 13:36:53 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: again, three things: Vany... Message-ID: <199510181736.NAA22681-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> AliFarr-+AT+-aol.com wrote: >Katherine Kurtz's Horned God and Goddess probably come closest to my ideal of >what humanity reaches for. I guess this probably puts me in the catagory >"pagan" . Katherine Kurtz's Horned God and Goddess??? Where? In which book? The Deryni novels all feature a God along Judeo-Christian lines. The Adept books all feature a nearly non-personified Light... (Try Gael Baudino's _Gossamer Axe_ or Marion Zimmer Bradley's _Forest House_ and _Mists of Avalon_ for good depictions of the Celtic Goddess and Horned God...) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:46:41 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A new book to recommend Message-ID: <951018104641.22402515-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> >so highly recomended is Gael Baudino. I didn't like her Dragonsword >series at all, but Gossomer Axe was a vision, and her series about elves >(Strands of Starlight, Maze of Moonlight, Shroud of Shadow, and Strands of >Sunlight) are inspired. Has anyone else read these? I hate to depart any >further from topic, but I truely LOVE these books and would love to hear >some one else recomend them (or not). >And if you havn't read them, please try to give them a trial read. >Admittedly, they're sometimes hard to find, but worth it! >Colette Couldn't agree more. Gael Baudino's Gossamer Axe was ... it was... well it was awesome. I don't know how to describe it, but it just blew me away. Unfortunately, while the elf books where good, they weren't Gossamer Axe, and the Dragonsword series couldn't hold my interest even through book one. But if you ever have the chance to buy/beg/borrow Gossamer Axe, do it. You will not regret it. Unless you are really homophobic (then what are you doing on this list anyway ). This story would have worked as well for a male/female relationship, and while I'm not homophobic, I am very hetero, so I would have prefered that. Normally the lesbian relationship would have bothered me, not severely, but still. It's hard to put away ideas that have been pushed at you since childhood. But Baudino's writing makes it easy to ignore ingrown prejudices and just enjoy the story for what it is. Read it. You will not regret it. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:49:32 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: pagan survey Message-ID: <951018104932.22402515-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> >Oh aye indeed. I share your views in that respect. Most of my closest >friends are Xian or Jewish or muslim. (I know, i know, but its really >true! ;) >I assure you, I started this survey through pure curiosity. Wind to thy >wings, Excuse my ignorance, but... You lot are the first pagans I've ever "met". Growing up in a conservative structure, living in a conservative state, and only recently starting to go to sf/fantasy type cons, my experiences with non-Judeo-Christian belief systems is severely limited, outside of what I've run across in fiction. So I'm not completely ignorant. However, while I have some idea of what pagans believe, I have never heard of a Xian. And if anyone would be willing to give me a brief education, are there a lot of different pagan groups? Thanks StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 14:01:43 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Kal'enedral Message-ID: <199510181801.OAA22710-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: >But was Florian born (as in foaled)?? Could he be Grove-born?? Two arguments against Florian being anything but foaled. 1) In the only case we know of where the Heralds didn't know that a Companion was Grove-born, Misty showed the readers that she was, immediately (Gwena). It wasn't hidden or left a mystery. 2) Florian introduces another Companion as his sister. The simplest explanation is that they share the same Companion parent(s). -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 14:49:52 -0400 From: KJohn20849-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: pagan survey Message-ID: <951018144951_127070475-+AT+-mail06.mail.aol.com> Hi, add me to the ranks of Pagans. It will be interesting to see the results of this survey. Kathy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 15:05:09 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Reincarnation Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Oct 1995, Jerry Cullingford wrote: > > > > Just to throw another fly in the ointment, what makes everyone > > so sure that Grove Born Companions are *not* reincarnated > > Heralds? > > (2) Gwena is grove born. One of the books (probably the last winds one) > mentions her 'not having any human experience', which pretty much rules > her out as a reincarnated human of any flavour :-). > Plus WE are priviledged to witness her arrival in the Grove when Rolan called her. We follow Talia and Elspeth, their memories are altered, but ours are not (I think! ) Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 14:30:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Anne Cross To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A new book to recommend Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Oct 1995, Gjuka wrote: > Actually (while we're off on a side topic) my new favorite author(even more > than Misty) is Charles De Lint. I've loved everything so far that I've > read by him. He uses a lot of myth, primarly celtic and Native American, > and places many of his stories in modern settings. I really really > recomend him to everyone, especially people who like that "old" feeling to > their tales. I -love- Charles DeLint. _The Dreaming Place_ is one of my favorite stories -- it did something to me when I read that book. I feel a lot like Ashley sometimes. And so far everything else I've read by him has made me like him even more. > Also highly recomended is Gael Baudino. I didn't like her Dragonsword > series at all, but Gossomer Axe was a vision, and her series about elves > (Strands of Starlight, Maze of Moonlight, Shroud of Shadow, and Strands of > Sunlight) are inspired. Another set of books that do things to me! The Strands, Charles DeLint, and The Last Herald Mage really do make me love reading. It's a shame that there can be so much dross out there with the nifty covers and nothing else. (Anything in the new Star Wars books, for example, or the White Griffon.) ____________________________________________________________________________ | Anne Cross | "How many witches does it take | | juniper-+AT+-fledge.watson.org | to change a lightbulb?" | | http://www.watson.org/~juniper/ | "What do you want to change it into?" | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 13:56:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy Mason To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: uniforms/tayledras outfits/etc Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Rich Crawford wrote: > I'm interested as well! Unfortunately, I can't sew or design a pattern > worth a damn. However, I do have some friends who work in the Costume > Department of the Renaissance Faire in Northern California; I'll check around. I know this is kind of off the subject, but the Renaissance Fair? That's really cool, I love going there and dressing up in the costumes. Is it just me, or does it seem that the whole thing is just a big way to make you spend more money? 20 bucks to get it, prices for food are outrageous, all the merchandise is really expensive, even the costumes cost $30-$40 to rent for the day. Sorry, I hope I don't get flamed.... Amy :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 14:41:57 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sciences in Valdemar Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Stacy Hunt DuVall wrote: > Hey! > Has anyone else wodered about the "level" of the sciences in > Valdemar? We know that they have mathematicians, engineers, and a pretty > good grasp of human anatomy and physiology (after all, in one of the > _Aarow's_ books, one of the healers refers to a burnt Herald as having > pretty bad nerve damage). What about other physical sciences? Did they > not develop because of the availability of magic? > Hmmm, that doesn't really work in the case of Valdemar, since magic wasn't > an option for a long time. > > Oh well, I'm just speculating again :-) Hmmm... In the Black Gryphon, Amberdrake was placed with physicians who, while brutish and coarse (I felt for Amberdrake), did have rudimentary science. They reminded me of medieval physicians... Also, for Urtho to make the gryphons required a high degree of biology, and the healers were all extremely well skilled. I think a lot of it was preserved by the Kal'ed'in (how DO you spell that...). I think it was more likely that the sciences had been discovered and explored long before even Vanyel's time, but like our own Greek and Roman classics, had to be rediscovered. The level of the scientists Blues suggests they have a strong basis for their achievements. *********************************************************************** -Chonni Brightwolf (Katherine Moll, student) University College of the Cariboo British Columbia, CANADA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 18:10:36 -0400 From: duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: sorry, I forgot Message-ID: <199510182210.SAA18439-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> Hmmm....as far as the pagan survey.... I'm a Christian, with no formal denomination. I think that quite a few denominations have forgotten the "rules" we're supposed to play by...you know, don't lie, don't steal, don't hurt one another, and _don't judge_. Maybe the world would be a better place if everyone remebered them!! :-) Stacy Hunt DuVall duvall.23-+AT+-osu.edu "Yes, evil comes in many forms, whether it be a man-eating cow or Joseph Stalin, but you can't let the package hide the pudding! Evil is just plain bad! You don't cotton to it. You gotta smack it in the nose with the rolled-up newspaper of goodness! Bad dog! Bad dog!"-The Tick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:08:28 -0400 From: "David K. Storrs" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lake Evendim, reincarnation, & religion Message-ID: <199510181408.KAA15074-+AT+-prague.crossover.com> -Chonni Brightwolf wrote: >On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Sanna Koulu wrote: > >> Adrienne York wrote: >> >> > Sunfalcon wrote: >> > Has anyone identified a deity watching over Lake Evendim? Also, why >> > would Ma'ar have left evil weapons? He could have used them already. Or >> > they could have been triggered by that big explosion at his death. >> > Remember, Ma'ar's primary shielding concern would have been the >> > prevention of theft, not providing safeguards for his underlings. Remember we were told that the Dhorisa plains are one big crater, resulting from Urtho's toys going boom, and this explains why they are perfectly circular on the map? Has anyone noticed that lake Evendim is also perfectly circular? (Sorry if I'm missing something blindingly obvious or already said...I haven't read all my mail today, and I tend to get the reply to a message before I get the message, which makes following threads interesting.) Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 19:44:47 +-100 From: Mikkel Larsen To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk'" Subject: Re: Reincarnation (was RE: Kal'enedral) Message-ID: <01BA9CC9.40A625E0-+AT+-mikkell> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BA9CC9.40AF4DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 10 Oct 1995 RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com wrote: (snip)=20 > I think that there are 3 types of Companions, not 2. >=20 > There are the Grove Born, who seem to be "higher" guardian > spirits. >=20 > There are reincarnated Heralds, this seems fairly clear from (snip) >=20 > BUT! I think that there are extremely few Grove Born, in > fact only 2 that we know of. And of the rest, I don't believe > all of them are reincarnated Heralds. I think some are. But > the rest are simply lower guardian spirits, benign spirits of > the ethereal planes. >=20 > There is, as far as I know, not one iota of proof that ALL non- > Groveborn Companions are ex-Heralds. Some certainly. Like > Sayvil, and a few others. But every one??? Nope, don't buy it. >=20 > Anyone want to offer some more *proof*?? >=20 Ulrich says:"Obviously, (Firecats) are exactly like Companions, except = that there are fewer. I assume that is because there are fewer deceased = Sons than Heralds" That IMHO indicates that "normal" Companions are reborn. By the way: Hello, I am new here. Greetings to all. 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Message-ID: <9510182300.AA16745-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Amy Wrote: > On Mon, 16 Oct 1995, Kerry Mealing wrote: > > > > Was re-reading the Black Gryphon before diving into the WG and it occurred > > to me that perhaps Valdemar doesn't have a deity watching over it at all, > > but rather that it might be Urtho's spirit guiding them. > > I'm not sure exactly why it occurred to me :) , I think it was something in > > the way the gryphons were created / behaved that struck me as very similar to > > the companions. Also the Kaledain weren't Urtho's own people whereas the > > ancestors of the Valdemarans might have been. > > > SW spoilers.... Oh, Ok.. I haven't read SW yet, so I might be contradicting what's in there.. > IMO, this doesn't make any sense. Because of what we find out about the > Empire in SW, we know that they are also the descendents of Urtho's > people, that they had accidently been pushed too far because of the > explosion, the same thing had happened to the Shin'a'in. Yeup, I'd assumed that the Empire was too, based on the fact that Maar's people had no warning of the impending catastrophe & no way to escape. *But*, (sprinkle liberally with IMHO's) the empire isn't in keeping with the tenets of Urtho's philosophy. (The emperor thing always reminded me more of Maar than Urtho). So he may well have supported Baron Valdemar's camp. > But, we _do_ > know (correct me if I'm wrong) that the Kaled'a'in were Urtho's people > orignally too, didn't the Shin'a'in and the Kaled'a'in spring from the > same place? And we do know that the Shin'a'in were Urtho's people. Err, strictly speaking, no. They were Urtho's *allies* and friends, but not his people as such. (Does that make any sense?) There's a bit in the BG where Amberdrake finds books on the bondbirds and the horses of the shin'a'nain and he laughs because there's only one breeding history for the horses, saying something like "The Kaledain wouldn't reveal that information to any outsider, not even Urtho." > It > is logical to assume that Valdemarans were Urtho's people, because the > original Valdemar (the guy to found the place, I'm blanking on the name) > were a part of the Empire and tried to escape the tyrannest(sp?) rule. Yeah, I was kinda suggesting that his spirit was still kicking around offering help as needed (eg, perhaps, the companions).. We never see Valdemar's deity do anything that couldn't be done by an adept of Urtho's calibre. > > (Does anyone else have an inordinate tendancy to spell Valdemar as > > 'Valdemaar'? I wonder if 'Valde' meant anything in one of the original > > languages.. enemy perhaps?) > > As we know before Valdemar was the name of the first king who founded the > country, they escaped from the Empire, and the only way for him to do > that was to escape out to the west finding what we know today as the > country Valdemar. Mmm, I know.. the name is just, suggestive.. > I hope I won't be flamed, these are just my thoughts.... > Amy :) Not a flame, just trying to clarify the waters I muddied. :) Kerry. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Kerry J Mealing mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com "Remember, it's loot before pillage, sack before burn.." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 18:56 CDT From: ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:(Non)Misty's Music Message-ID: Regarding: >BTW: Does anyone have any suggestions as to any other groups with this >style (Celtic Rock) I have some money to spend and the Firebird catalog, >and I'm trying to decide between Wolfstone, more Tempest, Boiled in Lead, >or something else. Thanks > >> > >Ned Adams aka S. Baldrick Sometimes it is better to light a >sbaldric-+AT+-roanoke.infi.net flamethrower than to curse the darkness >(540) 890-0212 (T. Pratchett) > > I don't know that you could categorize any of these following suggestions for primo music as set forth by me (humble listener/reader) but I've found that the folks who read in the same genre I do, generally enjoy the same music: Anything by Jethro Tull Anything by Clannad Most of Enya's Stuff A little known band called Rennaissance (Albums entitled Tales of 1000 Nights vol one and two) And one of my personal faves: An also little known epic style CD called Requiem For The Americas with performances by Jon Anderson (Yes), the dread Michael Bolton (Yick), The Boys Choir of Harlem, Stewart Copeland, Grace Jones, Simon LeBon, Jim Morrison, Nick Rhoades, Charlie Sheen, Martin Sheen, John Taylor and John Waite...to name only a few. I know it sounds like an unlikely bunch of folks, but those of you out there with a taste of music ala Tayledras...you'll really go for it. It has a Native American flavor with old YES overtones, sprinkled liberally with New Age mysticism. Try it! You'll like it! Firefly ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 19:01 CDT From: ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Re:Misty's Music Message-ID: Regarding: >neither Rumors of the Big Wave or Ofra Haza are in any way related to Misty >or her work. But I would highly recomend them both. The first is a Seatle >band with enviromental and pagan roots, the second is a yemanite jew who >sings sortof middle eastern dance/pop music in english and hebrew. Very >good stuff. > >Colette > > >gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com > I can't believe it! (Clapping paws! Squealing with glee!) Someone else out there has heard of the amazing Ofra Haza! Thank you darling Colette! Smiles, Firefly ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net > > ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 181 *********************************