MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 188 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Mysterious Gobbledygook (was RE: Reincarnation) by wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) 2) RE: Fire Rose by Catherine Osborne 3) RE: Fire Rose by Kevin Hawthorn 4) Re: How many times aroud? (was RE: Kal'enedral) by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 5) RE: Storm Warning by "Thomas, Daria" 6) Re: Repeat Messages? by Mat Timmerman 7) RE: Fire Rose by Catherine Osborne 8) Re: wheelchairs by dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) 9) Re: ren fairs by Anne Cross 10) Re: an author you might like... by ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) 11) sflovers & villians by CHONNI 12) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 185 by s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu 13) RE: Storm Warning by wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) 14) Re: Fire Rose by "Kristin A. Ruhle" 15) Re: sflovers & villians by urtho-+AT+-stargazer.netshop.net (Kyle Matheson) 16) Tremane by urtho-+AT+-stargazer.netshop.net (Kyle Matheson) 17) Re: Tremane by David Curry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 04:06:19 -0700 From: wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Mysterious Gobbledygook (was RE: Reincarnation) Message-ID: <199510241106.EAA27397-+AT+-ix9.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > > >------ =_NextPart_000_01BA9FF2.DD7F00E0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >I don't know where it came from, the letter left my computer nice and = >clean, but returned the next day like that. I have seen those characters = >from outer space in a few other letters. >Mikkel Larsen > > > Unless I'm mistaken, that's a UUencoded program... I'll try to decode it and see what it comes out to be... - Shadow-Lover ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 07:45:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Fire Rose Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Oct 1995 RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com wrote: > My biggest complaint with Misty's stuff. Her good guys > are so awesome, if she could just develop a three-dimensional > villain, I'd be really happy. One of the absolute best > chars she ever created, in my opinion,was Dave in Children > of the Night. He's one of the few gray chars she ever did. > He's a good guy, but he becomes an evil influence. And he > has conflict within himself. He could be either good or > evil depending on his choices, and I really felt like it > was conceivable for him to go either way. Most of the > rest of her chars are obvious - their white hats or black > hats, no shades of gray. I agree on the subject of villains, tho I thought Falconsbane captured something pretty well. I also agree that Dave was very cool as a piece of writing. But I think Tremane also is a fantastic character. I *love* Tremane (as a piece of writing ;) I\/ Catherine Osborne "After great pain, I\/ Sundancer a formal feeling comes." I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu --Emily Dickinson I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 13:05:10 BST From: Kevin Hawthorn To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Fire Rose Message-ID: > I agree on the subject of villains, tho I thought Falconsbane captured > something pretty well. I also agree that Dave was very cool as a piece of > writing. But I think Tremane also is a fantastic character. I *love* > Tremane (as a piece of writing ;) Ah yes, but is Tremane _really_ a villain, or is he (as we so frequently hear) merely _misunderstood_ and really just another nice guy. I think that the villain, if there is one for this series, has to be the emperor. David. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 08:54:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: How many times aroud? (was RE: Kal'enedral) Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Oct 1995, Jennifer S. Broekman wrote: > Adrienne York wrote: > >On Wed, 18 Oct 1995, Jennifer S. Broekman wrote: > >> Rosario Holsen-Baker wrote: > >> > All right, any speculations on who Florian was? > >> Anyone but Savil, Jaysen, or Vanyel? My current pet theory is (drum > >> roll)... > >> Randale's father. > >Um, I don't think it would be Randale's father because in SR Karal > >double-sees him as a young man, in his twenties. IIRC, Randale's father > >wouldn't have died until sometime in his late thirties or early forties. > >Randale became Heir when he was in his early twenties and one would think > >that Randale's father didn't produce Randale until his mid-teens, at the > >earliest. > > Why should a Companion be forced to appear as s/he was when s/he died > the last time around as a human? Stefen was an old man when he died, > but he appears in the Forest of Sorrows as young man. Why shouldn't a > Companion's double-image at least track with the Companion's age, so > that a young Companion, like Florian, would be double-seen as a young > man, but an old Companion, like Savil's when she died, would be > double-seen as an older woman? > Excellent! Another thought could be that the Companion appears to his/her Herald in a form that they can relate to or feel comfortable with in some way? But I like your idea better. As for Stefen, I've always felt that a spirit would appear in whatever manner that the spirit felt comfortable in. That doesn't quite explain what I mean, something like "you're as young as you feel" sort of thing - for example, I have to keep reminding myself of my age because I don't feel 36! My mom says she still feels more like 18 than 63 "inside"! So maybe it's the SPIRITUAL age, or SOUL age, that is being seen. Am I making any sense? It's still early here! Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 09:32:00 cdt From: "Thomas, Daria" To: 'mercedes-lackey' Subject: RE: Storm Warning Message-ID: <308CF91D-+AT+-mailsrvr.bussvc.wisc.edu> >> I agree on the subject of villains, tho I thought Falconsbane captured >> something pretty well. I also agree that Dave was very cool as a piece of >> writing. But I think Tremane also is a fantastic character. I *love* >> Tremane (as a piece of writing ;) > >Ah yes, but is Tremane _really_ a villain, or is he (as we so frequently >hear) merely >_misunderstood_ and really just another nice guy > >I think that the villain, if there is one for this series, has to be the >emperor. > >David. Storm Warning Spoiler Coming!! Actually, my inclination for a villain in this series (not having read Storm Rising yet) would not be the emperor, who I would think would be falling apart with the magic problems and the spells holding his body together, but the other main rival for the throne. I don't remember his name offhand, but in the interview Tremane had with the emperor, there was a passage about if this other man was named heir, Tremane wouldn't last long because the other guy was so ruthless. The other guy, though we hadn't met him yet, just seemed like better villain material to me. -Daria ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:00:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Repeat Messages? Message-ID: <01HWTDYG9EQQ934TP2-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) >>>Is anybody else getting repeat messages -- like stuff they got days ago? >>> >>> >>>Jeanne Hedge >> >> Not only am I getting stuff from days ago, but I just 10 copies of a >>message I sent myself...sorry guys! I wasn't spamming the list on purpose. >> >> Dave >> > >I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm kinda glad someone else is having problems >too. BTW - I haven't seen 10 copies of your message. I posted a question >to the list Saturday morning and I've gotten about 25 repeat backs with >error messages attached. Maybe somehow the server has messed up and we've >ended up spamming ourselves? I think that it was a problem with one list member, Croaker. _My_ bounced messages (hmm, I wonder how many people got them) mentioned that username as the one that it bounced from. His/her server seemed to be the one with the problem. When all mail to him/her bounced, it should have went to Mel, but for some reason, it bounced back at the sender. Mat T. -- Mat Timmerman accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu "I don't care what you smell, just get in there." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 12:07:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Fire Rose Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, Kevin Hawthorn wrote: > Ah yes, but is Tremane _really_ a villain, or is he (as we so frequently hear) merely > _misunderstood_ and really just another nice guy. Oh, I didn't say he was the villain, just a grey character. ;) I\/ Catherine Osborne "After great pain, I\/ Sundancer a formal feeling comes." I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu --Emily Dickinson I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 13:00:22 -0400 From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: wheelchairs Message-ID: <199510241700.NAA22965-+AT+-prague.crossover.com> >> PS -- What's a claw blade? >> >> Dave > > >My friends are also knife makers (they do everything) and a claw blade is a >custom design they made. It's a knife with a blade shaped like a cats claw >that you hold in your palm with the blade emerging through your fingers. >It's wicked looking. > >-Colette > > >gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com Hmm...interesting. Sounds like you'd have to be careful not to use it with a lateral motion though, or you'd risk taking off your own fingers. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 15:35:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Anne Cross To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ren fairs Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, Gyrfalcon wrote: > On Fri, 20 Oct 1995 s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu wrote: > > > for those who were looking for info on getting into renaissance fairs > > contact the Society for Creative Anachronism they have a web page at: > > http://www2.ecst.csuchio.edu:80/~rodmur/sca/ > > > > they have online info and a mailing site....hope this helps > > Um, I've tried this and, well, it isn't there. Hmm...well, I've got what I know is a working link to the SCA at the bottom of my pagan page, if you want to go to it that way... http://www.watson.org/~juniper/pagan.html/ and go to the bottom of the page. :) Anne Cross ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 16:17 CDT From: ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: an author you might like... Message-ID: Regarding: > >I seriously recommend Guy Gavriel Kay, starting with, I think, "The >Summer Tree". I adore books that make you want to cry (like all the MP >books!) and this series definately did it for me. "Song for Arabornne" >(pardon the spelling) is a good fantasy-medieval mix, if a bit grim at times. > > > >*********************************************************************** > -Chonni Brightwolf Huzzah! I can't believe it! Someone else has read Guy Gavriel Kay! Even better, someone has read The Summer Tree, The Wandering Fire and The Darkest Road!! (pardon the exclaimation points, but I'm excited) I thought for sure I was the only human on the planet (or at least in San Angelo Texas) that has discovered the dark, agonizing stories of Mr. Kay. Has anyone read the Lions of Al-Rassan or Tigana? They, like The Last Herald Mage series, will tear out your heart and feed it to you in little ragged pieces. And for those of use who love to cry, I would think most fans of Vanyel do!, these stories are perfect. Firefly ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:46:35 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey list Subject: sflovers & villians Message-ID: i lost the e-address of sflovers; does anyone know it? OR can anyone give me info on Norwescon? re: Misty's villians...maybe misty is trying to say one of two things. 1) individual evil people are weak in and of themselves, and choose to continue doing nasty things because its what they know best, or 2) that there are no evil people; only insane ones with poorly developed morals. Basically, I think Misty likes to create characters who are driven through fear and anger (which is what hatred basically is) to behave `villianously'. Ma'ar's fear & jealousy led him to destroying all of his competition. Tremane's fears led him to blame Valdemar for the mage storms. I'm not trying to excuse them; that would be silly. I just want to point out an underlying philosophy in Misty's books - it's a lot harder to be evil than it is to be good (ignoring all the fluff that comes out of churches today ) and it (evil) has to build up and calcify to do real damage. IMO, the whole point to the existance of the heralds is to prevent that build up and keep their society in balance! Gotta go before this turns into an essay (i've been writing too many!!!!) *********************************************************************** -Chonni Brightwolf (Katherine Moll, student) University College of the Cariboo British Columbia, CANADA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 18:05:39 -0500 (EST) From: s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 185 Message-ID: STEFEN/TYLENDEL> i thought the book described him as havin hair that looked blond at one moment andred at the next.....this would seem to mean that the two kind of merged upon death GYRFALCON> try http://eddie.beve.blacksburg.va.us/~duncan/sca/htm or net search the society for creative anachronism ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 19:26:48 -0700 (PDT) From: wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Storm Warning Message-ID: <199510250226.TAA25549-+AT+-ix10.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > > >>> I agree on the subject of villains, tho I thought Falconsbane captured >>> something pretty well. I also agree that Dave was very cool as a piece of > >>> writing. But I think Tremane also is a fantastic character. I *love* >>> Tremane (as a piece of writing ;) >> >>Ah yes, but is Tremane _really_ a villain, or is he (as we so frequently >>hear) merely >>_misunderstood_ and really just another nice guy >> >>I think that the villain, if there is one for this series, has to be the >>emperor. >> >>David. > >Storm Warning Spoiler Coming!! > > > > > > > >Actually, my inclination for a villain in this series (not having read Storm >Rising yet) would not be the emperor, who I would think would be falling >apart with the magic problems and the spells holding his body together, but >the other main rival for the throne. I don't remember his name offhand, but >in the interview Tremane had with the emperor, there was a passage about if >this other man was named heir, Tremane wouldn't last long because the other >guy was so ruthless. The other guy, though we hadn't met him yet, just >seemed like better villain material to me. > -Daria > > I have a feeling that, as the name "Mage Storms" suggests, the Storms are to be the evil of this series... I do believe, however, that she has set up a very nice plot for the next book... Who knows what evils Charliss will succumb to when he finds his pawn has defected and become a major player for the other side! =o) - Shadow-Lover ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 22:30:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Kristin A. Ruhle" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fire Rose Message-ID: <199510250530.AA27377-+AT+-foxtrot.rahul.net> > > I really, really really, .... liked it a lot. Until the end. > That seemed very rushed. But it's still well worth reading, > and honestly one of the better Beauty and the Beast type > stories. Characterization was up to the best Misty style, > you could really get into the two main characters. > > [mini-spoiler warning - if you want absolutely no knowledge > of the book, don't read this, but it doesn't tell you much > honest] > > The villains are, as usual, not that well developed, and > other than your standard power-hungry-ness, I felt their > motives weren't very clear. > > > [close spoiler] > > My biggest complaint with Misty's stuff. Her good guys > are so awesome, if she could just develop a three-dimensional > villain, I'd be really happy. One of the absolute best > chars she ever created, in my opinion,was Dave in Children > of the Night. He's one of the few gray chars she ever did. > He's a good guy, but he becomes an evil influence. And he > has conflict within himself. He could be either good or > evil depending on his choices, and I really felt like it > was conceivable for him to go either way. Most of the > rest of her chars are obvious - their white hats or black > hats, no shades of gray. > Hmm. here's a thought: What if Firesong hadn't been caught in time, and had kept nursing his obsession/madness...could it have eventually turned into true evil? I'd kind of like to see maybe a "Darth Vader" type character (only more complex) where a good person becomes evil, and then is ultimately redeemed. Kristin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 22:41 PDT From: urtho-+AT+-stargazer.netshop.net (Kyle Matheson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: sflovers & villians Message-ID: > > (Katherine Moll, student) > University College of the Cariboo > British Columbia, CANADA > > > At Last, I've found anoughter Kamloops person who enjoys Mercedes Lackey. Jenn Wielgoz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 22:37 PDT From: urtho-+AT+-stargazer.netshop.net (Kyle Matheson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Tremane Message-ID: >Ah yes, but is Tremane _really_ a villain, or is he (as we so frequently hear) merely >_misunderstood_ and really just another nice guy. > >I think that the villain, if there is one for this series, has to be the emperor. > >David. I think that Tremane is really a good guy. Look at how he becomes so pissed off at the thought that the Empire might be testing his men! He expected to be subjected to tests, but his men were really important! My example would be in the book "Storm Rising". Kyle Kyle Matheson urtho-+AT+-stargazer.netshop.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:11:47 BST From: David Curry To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tremane Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Oct 1995 06:31:37 GMT Kyle Matheson wrote: > I think that Tremane is really a good guy. Look at how he becomes so pissed > off at the thought that the Empire might be testing his men! He expected to > be subjected to tests, but his men were really important! My example would > be in the book "Storm Rising". Precisely, so we have (once again) no "three-dimensional" villain because, although he is well-crafted, he turns out not to be the villain of the novel. My main question is, are villains 1) neccessary to a good story and 2) do they have to be largely "cartoon" characters? David. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 188 *********************************