MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 191 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Too Dim Villains (was Re: Tremane) by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 2) Re: A new book to recommend by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 3) Re: A new book to recommend by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 4) Re: A new book to recommend by Vivian Choh 5) Re: A new book to recommend by "Thomas, Daria" 6) Re: A new book to recommend by "Susan R. Dewey" 7) Re: Storm Rising by Amy Mason 8) Authors by Amy Mason 9) Re: Too Dim Villains(Robert Jordan) by Mat Timmerman 10) Re: Too Dim Villains (was Re: Tremane) by Mat Timmerman 11) Re: A new book to recommend by Mat Timmerman 12) RE: A new book to recommend by Mikkel Larsen 13) Anne McCaffrey by Hollie Virgin 14) Re: Too Dim Villains (was Re: Tremane) by Tammy Harris 15) Re: A new book to recommend by ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) 16) Re: Too Dim Villains (was Re: Tremane) by ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) 17) Re: Wheelchairs, villains, and definitions by "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" 18) Re: A new book to recommend by CHONNI 19) Re: A new book to recommend by CHONNI 20) Re: A new book to recommend by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 21) Re: A new book to recommend by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 22) Conflict by "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" 23) Re: Too Dim Villains (was Re: Tremane) by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 24) Re: Authors by Jennifer Broekman 25) Re: Too Dim Villains(Robert Jordan) by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 11:34:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Too Dim Villains (was Re: Tremane) Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Ned wrote: > > One of the best villians in any book I've read shows up in the books I > just finished reading: C.S. Friedman's When True Night Falls and Black > Sun Rising (hope I remembered those correctly). I don't want to say too > much right now, since it gives away part of the first book, so I'll toss > in some spoiler space... Yes, yes, yes - a perfect example. I literally didn't know WHO to root for after awhile. Friedman does an excellent job of playing one off of the other (hero & villain that is), and I found myself yelling at the "hero" to stop being such an idiot because they needed each other to accomplish his goal! BTW - there is a third book due out sometime, I forget the name of it though. Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 11:38:34 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A new book to recommend Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Jellicle Cats Come Out Tonight! wrote: > (Re: Pern) I think, > however, that I grew out of it. Or maybe I just burned out. :) > > -Amy, long-time lurker That's a good point, Amy. I have gone back and re-read things that I LOVED at a certain point in my life and found that they sometimes don't have the same appeal that they once did. So maybe sometimes it's not the author's stuff that's gone down, but we have grown beyond them and THEY have not progressed. Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 17:17:47 GMT From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A new book to recommend Message-ID: <9510261717.AA19360-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> -Seanna > > > > (My apologies for ranting... it's that I get frustrated by > >postfeminists saying "REAL liberated women can dress as bimbos /read > >category romances /whatever - they get to choose" etc.) > > I get tierd of people telling me how to be a "real woman", period. I will > be who I will be no matter the established standards, and I am a woman. I > think everyone should be free to be themselves without people disscussing > if the qualify for the newest standard of "womanhood" or "manhood". Sorry, > I get equally upset about definitions of what a woman is or isn;t- don't > mean to flame. honest. > [Colette snipped for space a little] Amen to that. I dunno, just because I wear no makeup, run my own business, sysadmin a Unix system, play RPGs, cook, embroider (sometimes) _and_ read Danielle Steel books (in my weaker moments)... what does that make me? (No, don't answer that. :)) *grin* Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 14:13:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Vivian Choh To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A new book to recommend Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Oct 1995 RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com wrote: RE: tanya huff blood series > Book 2 of the Blood series is awesome too! It took me > quite a while to figure out who the bad dude was. Great > stuff. I'm trying very hard to find Book 3 and 4, but my > fave library doesn't have them, so I will either have to > buy them or scrounge them through interlibrary loan. Are > they a) as good, b) better c) worse than the first 2? I don't know what the others will say but I thought that number 2 (werewolves) was the worst of the lot. I liked the rest in order. Number 1 not as good as (but only slightly not as good as) number 3 (about a mummy BTW, I don't think that's too much of a spoiler) and the best, best, best one (my opinion only of course, well actually, my sister's too -- I MADE her read them :) ) is number 4, the last one (and this time I won't tell you what it's about..you'll just have to pick it up yourself :) ...) Vivian Choh bi189-+AT+-torfree.net v.choh-+AT+-utoronto.ca "I am all that I claim to be. I simply have not claimed all that I am." - M. Lackey, "Oathbreakers" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 13:57:00 cdt From: "Thomas, Daria" To: mercedes-lackey Subject: Re: A new book to recommend Message-ID: <308FDA34-+AT+-mailsrvr.bussvc.wisc.edu> ---------- > There's a book called _Battlefield Earth_ -- quite old, I read it >years ago. It's 1066 pages, and it's a lot of fun in a well-done >space-opera sort of way written by this guy named L. Ron Hubbard. I read >it, had a blast, and then found out (years later) that L. Ron Hubbard the SF >writer and L. Ron Hubbard the founder of Scientology were the same person! >I thought there had to be some sort of mistake but nope, there it was. It >was evidentally written before he flaked out, however -- there is no mention >of scientology or other religions anywhere in the book. It goes pretty >fast, so if you have a long car trip or something that you you need to fill >up, I'd recommend giving it a look. Steer clear of the _Mission Earth_ >series however -- the first one is decent, the second mediocre, and the rest >are crap. > > Dave I agree with you totally--this is the only good book by him I've ever read, but it really is quite good. To tie this in with another thread, this book is a good example of a "gray" villain--the bad guy in this book has excellent (from his point of view) reasons to do the terrible things he's doing. -Daria ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 15:35:36 -0400 From: "Susan R. Dewey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A new book to recommend Message-ID: <308FE308.30B9-+AT+-jax.org> Another author is Kate Elliott has a series that starts with Jaran, His Conquoring Sword, An Earthly Crown, & Law of Becoming. The first three, although set in some future of ours, take place on a highly aggrarian planet and are of a very horse oriented, nomadic society. She is an excellent writer and a pleasure to read. Susan Dewey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 12:39:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy Mason To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Rising Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Oct 1995, Traci Pederson - Berger and Co wrote: > > Has anyone read this book yet? I just saw it in the bookstores and was > wondering if it is going to be worth $27 w/tax or should I wait a month > and get it from my bookclub for half of that. Personally, I'm waiting for it to come out in paperback. No matter how good an author is, I don't see that spending $27 on a book is worth it. Now, with paperbacks, I'll buy those any time. Just MHO. Amy :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 13:01:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy Mason To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Authors Message-ID: A little of the subject, but does anyone on this list enjoy Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series? I think some things in her novels directly parallel Misty's novels. Such as the telepathic powers. Amy :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 16:19:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Too Dim Villains(Robert Jordan) Message-ID: <01HWWHN8URHE935B6O-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) >> >>A good set of 3d villians comes out of Robert Jordan's books. >> >>All of them have different personalities and motives, none of them make >>mistakes that are out of character. >> > >Yah, I'm addicted too. I really recomend them for their complexity. >Although they start out using the same old formula that most fantasy books >do, he's a skilled writer and after tha first couple of books some >unexpected things start to happen. (Reminds me a little bit of the plot >structure of the Belgariad by David Eddings.) Because they are so typical >I've never really known why I like them so much, but I do. His charecters >rally ARE interesting and complicated. They've surprised me a lot more than >the heros ever have! I like Eddings too, but if you're ever on rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan, don't _ever_ mention that! And also _never_, *_never_* compare Eddings to Jordan there. If you do, you _will_ be flamed beyond all recogintion. I have seen this happen to inummerable newbies there. For some reason, most of the people on rasfwrj absolutely despise Eddings. I agree with some of their points (come on David, think up a _new_ story for a change, don't just give the hero and the pretty blue rock new names.), but I enjoy the books anyway. Mat T. -- Mat Timmerman accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu "I don't care what you smell, just get in there." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 16:27:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Too Dim Villains (was Re: Tremane) Message-ID: <01HWWI15E3DK935B6O-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" >On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Ned wrote: > >> >> One of the best villians in any book I've read shows up in the books I >> just finished reading: C.S. Friedman's When True Night Falls and Black >> Sun Rising (hope I remembered those correctly). I don't want to say too >> much right now, since it gives away part of the first book, so I'll toss >> in some spoiler space... > >Yes, yes, yes - a perfect example. I literally didn't know WHO to root >for after awhile. Friedman does an excellent job of playing one off of >the other (hero & villain that is), and I found myself yelling at the >"hero" to stop being such an idiot because they needed each other to >accomplish his goal! > >BTW - there is a third book due out sometime, I forget the name of it though. > >Cecile I haven't read any of the series, but I've seen part three in the bookstores. It's called _Crown of Shadows_, IIRC. I remember b/c every time I see it, I almost think that it's Jordan's forthcomming _Crown of Swords_. Not until Feb/March though. Mat T. -- Mat Timmerman accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu "I don't care what you smell, just get in there." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 16:30:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A new book to recommend Message-ID: <01HWWI4DZU7I935B6O-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" > >On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Jellicle Cats Come Out Tonight! wrote: > >> (Re: Pern) I think, >> however, that I grew out of it. Or maybe I just burned out. :) >> >> -Amy, long-time lurker > >That's a good point, Amy. I have gone back and re-read things that I >LOVED at a certain point in my life and found that they sometimes don't >have the same appeal that they once did. So maybe sometimes it's not the >author's stuff that's gone down, but we have grown beyond them and THEY >have not progressed. > >Cecile Very good point. Look at almost anything by Piers Anthony (except the Incarnations of Immortality series -- I love most of that). When I was thirteen, I _loved_ Xanth. Now, seeing how many of them are sitting on my bookshelf makes almost makes me nauseous. Mat T. -- Mat Timmerman accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu "I don't care what you smell, just get in there." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:49:42 +-100 From: Mikkel Larsen To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: A new book to recommend Message-ID: <01BAA3ED.1DAD8E40-+AT+-cphppp149.cybernet.dk> Books to recommend: Anything by Louis Mcmaster Bujold Anything by Barbara Hambly Sheri S. Teppers early books (In the later she try to get to much into the plot) and yes I don't buy new books by Anne McCaffrey if I can find anything else that looks interesting. I haven't found anything by Gael Baudino here in Copenhagen Sorry about the gobbledygook, I can't help it. Mikkel Larsen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 16:53:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Hollie Virgin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Anne McCaffrey Message-ID: <199510262053.QAA07994-+AT+-service1.cc.uky.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 08:01:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Saverte >In regards to Anne Mccaffrey, I would have to agree with Mel and Jenn. Her >recent suff IMHO has shown a marked decrease in quality. I agree...I haven't read anything she's written since _All the Weyrs of Pern,_ which I thought was good, but not great. My favourite book of hers has got to be _Dragonsinger._ I like the dragons better than fire-lizards, but I like Harper Hall a lot better than the Weyrs. And I'm unabashedly a music person...the idea of being able to go to "school" in the Hall and do nothing but music _really_ appeals to me. I also just adore Robinton and Sebell... :) As for the dragonriders...F'nor is my favourite, without a doubt. Has anyone seen the book _The People of Pern_? It's got paintings by Robin Wood of lots of the main characters. And although some of them are just plain _wrong,_ there are a couple that are just incredible. F'nor Impressing his gold fire-lizard (whose name I don't remember, argh! Was it something like Grall?), Robinton with Zair peeking through his hair, Mirrim cradling Path's head in her lap... *sighs happily* I really haven't read any McCaffrey stuff, other than Pern...I started _To Ride Pegasus_ a million years ago, and never finished it. Except for _The Lady._ Combine Ireland and horses, and you've got me suckered...*grin* My, that was long and off-topic...but I haven't been able to discuss McCaffrey with anyone in ages...*grin* Hollie Virgin ehvirg00-+AT+-pop.uky.edu "She will remember your heart when men are fairytales in books written by rabbits." -The Last Unicorn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 15:59:35 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Too Dim Villains (was Re: Tremane) Message-ID: <41DCB8D7056-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> On Oct. 26, Stacy wrote: > Perhaps a little more time with the bad guys and a little more > history of the bad guys through their eyes would give them more depth. > > > > > > >A good set of 3d villians comes out of Robert Jordan's books. > > > >All of them have different personalities and motives, none of them make > >mistakes that are out of character. > > Jordan's bad guys are the best ;-). They're bad guys you like to spend some > time on. Of course, he's had six books to give us really juicy bad guys. > > This is why I think if we had some more time with Misty's bad guys, they > might _expand_ a litte more. > I think Stacy and Jenneke were right. It's really a matter of point of view. In order to really get three-dimensional villians, we need to get inside their heads and see their thoughts, feelings, and motivations. Vanyel, Talia, and company are real because we know what they're thinking. Robert Jordan tells his story through all his characters, which is why his villians are *so* three dimensional. And what about characters like Stephen Brusts's Vlad and Anne Rice's Louis and Lestat, who would normally be cast as villians (after all, we're talking an assassin and some vampires), and yet, they're main characters, and we can sympathize with them. They are definitely three dimensional, and certainly deserve to wear black hats. As far as villians who are grey instead of black, it seems to me that a good example of grey are the Karsites. In the earlier Valdemar books, they're your basic black-hat bad guys. But in the later books, we get to see at least a little of their viewpoint, and they don't seem so bad. They lose their two-dimensional black hats, get fleshed out, and become three-dimensional grey-hats. (I was looking through both the Robert Jordan and Tor Books homepages, and according to them, _Crown of Swords_ will be released in April.) Tammy (new kid on the block) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 17:05 CDT From: ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A new book to recommend Message-ID: Regarding: If anyone has any other reccomendations on books similar in >style to Misty's please speak up. I've really enjoyed all of the books and >this list. > > As a matter of fact....IMHO Holly Lisle is an up and coming author worth reading. She collaborated with Misty for When the Bough Breaks and possibly other works I'm brain blocking at the moment. I have three of Holly's books: Bones of the Past, Fire in the Mist and Minerva Wakes. They are on my To Recommend the Curious list. Firefly ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 17:05 CDT From: ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Too Dim Villains (was Re: Tremane) Message-ID: > >Regarding: >What do you like to see in a "good" villan? > Oh boy! What a cool question. I saw someone else reply that they loved the villain in the C.S. Friedman books Black Sun Rising, and When True Night Falls. I couldn't agree more. Those bad guys are actually more multi-dimentional than most authors "good guys". The symbiotic relationship between hero and villain in In Conquest Born, by same author was also riveting. I also cast my vote for the Lestat type of villain; he's bad, he knows it, we love him for it. The third type of villain that is dear to my heart is the villain who isn't a villain at all, such as Andrew Wiggins in Orson Scott Card's trilogy including: Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead and Xenocide, were the complexities of good and evil in any person are examined under a kind of sociatal microscope. Oh how I love the bad guys, especially when they have more depth than the guys in the white hats. Take Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker...tell me truly, who WAS more interesting? (happy grin) Lovin' the debate. Firefly ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 18:00:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wheelchairs, villains, and definitions Message-ID: Now that I've caught up on the last 4 ML Digests.... The wheelchair threads reminded me of the last time my husband John went through the security gate at a local amusement park. Since he has had total hip- and knee-implants on both sides (twice--total of 8 operations), the metal in the implants never fails to set off such alarms, and he has to explain this to the security folks with their little hand-held gizmos. One very young security person asked him if he could take it off, and John patiently explained that each new hip prosthesis has literally "grown" into the bones of his hips and thighs, that it's not like a belt buckle and easily detachable. But no one EVER checks his cane. Most of them (he's collected about 15 by now, some very handsome; after all, if he has to use one, I said to him while we were dating, why not make it/them a conversation piece?) are wooden, but a couple can be unscrewed into three sections, not counting the metal heads (horse and duck head and one other one that I forget offhand); it wouldn't be hard to drill out these and put in something else. My dad, who's been collecting unusual canes and walking sticks for years, has a couple of sword canes, and one, bought in France, that has a flexible metal blackjack inside--he got it on board the plane by manufacturing a limp and leaning heavily on it; not only did the security folks not insist on x-raying it, but they gave us a ride from the security point to our departure gate. BTW, on the opposite end of the security angle, 11 yrs. ago, when I was living in WV, I bought Dad a mountaineering stick as a Christmas present. It had a spike in one end.which kept tearing through wrapping present, until I decided to just tie a green bow on the handle (a mountain sheep's horn, which could either be screwed on at the base, forming a hook to hang over your arm when you needed your hands free, or could be screwed on sideways to provide a handle) and give it to him as soon as he met me at the Allentown, PA airport. Trouble was, I had to take a puddlejumper flight from WV to Pittsubrgh, and change to a larger plane to Allentown, with a 2 hr. layover. As soon as I disembarked in Pgh., security pounced as a friend and I headed for the nearest place to eat. I could not carry a weapon in the airport, they said. Despite my protests, they insisted in having it taken to the departure gate and locked up by the airline. After my friend went home, laden with Christmas goodies from her family for mine, I approached the departure folks. Oh, I was the lady with a spear! "It's NOT a spear!" I said. "I don't intend to impale anyone with it!" But they still wouldn't let me have it on board the plane, and only gave it to me right as I was about to get off. USAir is vigilant about mountaineering sticks. Feel safer now? --Barra Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb Harpers have pluck--but don't get strung out.--Barra the Bard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 15:03:18 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A new book to recommend Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Kristin A. Ruhle wrote: > > > > On Thu, 26 Oct 1995 GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU wrote: > > > > Well, some of the early Pern books are good (although they hardly feature > > multi-type characters and her sexism jumps out and strangles me after a > > while) and I haven't read _Freedom's Landing_, but I stand by my > > statement: regardless of how good Anne McCaffrey's stuff is, Elizabeth > > Moon's is just better... > > Heck, if you think McCaffrey has sexism in her Pern books, you really wouldn't like her romance novels! Personally, I didn't find any of that in say, _Moreta_ or _Nerilka_, and Lessa always struck me as a woman who would never take a lot of garbage. Anyways, if you like Elizabeth Moon (I do too), then definately read _Freedom's Landing_. The main character reminded me of Sassinak. Also, try _The Powers that Be_ series; I forget who McCaffrey wrote them with, but I liked them alot! *********************************************************************** -Chonni Brightwolf (Katherine Moll, student) University College of the Cariboo British Columbia, CANADA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 15:17:18 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A new book to recommend Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: > > > On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Jellicle Cats Come Out Tonight! wrote: > > > (Re: Pern) I think, > > however, that I grew out of it. Or maybe I just burned out. :) > > > > -Amy, long-time lurker > > That's a good point, Amy. I have gone back and re-read things that I > LOVED at a certain point in my life and found that they sometimes don't > have the same appeal that they once did. So maybe sometimes it's not the > author's stuff that's gone down, but we have grown beyond them and THEY > have not progressed. > > Cecile > ...that's how I feel about Piers Antony... *********************************************************************** -Chonni Brightwolf (Katherine Moll, student) University College of the Cariboo British Columbia, CANADA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 15:47:18 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A new book to recommend Message-ID: <9510262236.AA11764-+AT+-baker> >Jennie (sorry I cut her address) wrote: > > Another author that I REALLY like is Robin >!McKinley. You can't go wrong with any of her books, IMO... > > >I totally agree - I read Hero and the Crown when I was abou t12 and >must have kept it out of the library for about a year so I coudl >reread it time and time again. Even after I finally took it back I >coudl never resist getting it out if I saw it. I bought the Blue >Sword a few years ago and then abut a year ago finally found Hero and >the Crown in a bookshop, so I lent the pair to my boyfriend who also >liked them (but maybe he was just keeping me happy saying so?) > >Anyway - I would definitely recommend them to anyone who likes Misty. > >Does anyone know if there are other books by her - especially any >more Damar (do I have the right country) and Aerin books???? > >Rosetta She has a book of short-stories/retold fairy tales I think is called The Door In The Hedge. She wrote a retelling of the story of Beauty and the Beast called Beauty. A novel called Deerskin. And a brand new book that just came out and I don't know the name of... any one read that yet? Is it good? No other books about- is it called Daria? Damar? Dara?- that I'm aware of, but I could be wrong. Love her stuff; read Hero and the Crown in 5th grade- it was up for some kind of award we had to vote for. -Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 15:55:51 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A new book to recommend Message-ID: <9510262245.AA11942-+AT+-baker> >> Jennie (sorry I cut her address) wrote: >> >> Another author that I REALLY like is Robin >> !McKinley. You can't go wrong with any of her books, IMO... >> >> >> I totally agree - I read Hero and the Crown when I was abou t12 and >> must have kept it out of the library for about a year so I coudl >> reread it time and time again. Even after I finally took it back I >> coudl never resist getting it out if I saw it. I bought the Blue >> Sword a few years ago and then abut a year ago finally found Hero and >> the Crown in a bookshop, so I lent the pair to my boyfriend who also >> liked them (but maybe he was just keeping me happy saying so?) >> >> Anyway - I would definitely recommend them to anyone who likes Misty. >> >> Does anyone know if there are other books by her - especially any >> more Damar (do I have the right country) and Aerin books???? >> >> Rosetta > >Ahh, another fan. Well, she has written a few other books, and a few >collections of short stories. The books that I know of, if anyone knows of >more please tell me, are _Hero in the Crown_, _Blue Sword_, _Outlaws of >Sherwood_(a retelling of Robin Hood), _Beauty_(a retelling of Beauty and the >Beast), _Deerskin_, _Imaginary Lands_(a collection of short stories, only one >of hers), and _A door in the Hedge_(also a collection of short stories). I >know there is another collection or two out there. Anyway of these books, the >only other one that is in Damar, is _Deerskin_. Hope you enjoy! > Jennie (gerkej-+AT+-minnie.hollins.edu) Deerskin is in Damar? I must have missed that...(?) are you sure? I read it and I could swear it was somewhere else entirely. -Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 18:56:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Conflict Message-ID: I agree with Colette, I think it was. To have a plot, ideally there has to be conflict...but it does not have to be with a person or political entity. Actually, the more I consider this, the more I feel like substituting the word "change" for "conflict". There are many novels which are about quests, whether for an object or self-knowledge. True, Talia's Gift could have been a weapon, and it was crucial for her to gain control of it, but if she had been a different character, with different, lesser, abilities, that might not have been the case. Something needs to happen, whether it is merely the character(s) going from spot A to point B...or someone's granny sitting quietly in a chair knitting while inwardly she is weighing who will inherit her savings/stash/magical object, etc. Perhaps different reactions to villains depends in part on why we are reading. I forget in which mystery I read this, but an acute comment was made about a character who read a particular genre as a sort of mindless entertainment, like someone eating a whole bowl of popcorn and hardly noticing until there isn't any more left. In fact, my boss is like that about mysteries; she reads many, but after a couple of days has no memory at all of what she has read, and only a hazy idea of the titles and authors (which is why I've given up trying to discuss them with her). Give her six months to a year, and she can re-read one without realizing that she already read it. A lot of people read this way...I doubt they're on this list, but many do. Then there are people who become passionately involved in the worlds created by some authors. The first well-known bunch were the fans of the Sherlock Holmes books and stories. Litcrit is alive and well and thriving...I personally prefer a forum like this one to writing serious academic papers (which is why I will never go further than my MA in English; I can't stand the thought of footnoting someone, even if it's lots easier now than using a wornout manuaal typewriter as I did in grad school in the 70s) but the whole idea is to discuss that secondary world--and to have that temporary belief in it (good old Coleridge--something did stick from that boring Criticism class after all). --Oh dear, just reread that last paragraph. Let me hasten to add that I DON"T mean I wouldn't give someone else credit for their words and ideas--by saying that I don't want to cite them, I mean that in the pedantic sense; I hate the mechanics of appending footnotes. Intrusive little buggers, at the foot of the page.-- I strongly suspect that some of my favorite authors have been writing potboilers, and they tend to be inferior to their more considered, serious books. At least, I (charitably) hope they are potboilers. (For expample, Edna St. Vincent Millay wrote a volume of anti-war poetry during WWII [far from a popular stance but one she felt compelled to take and express] but she never intended it to stand with her other work, and was quite annoyed that most critcs and readers lumped it all in together) Some of the novels where 2 writers, each good in his/her own right, have paired up to write one together, have not been as good, much less better, than separately. It's been a sort of fad: editor says to writer J, "Look, our competitor has just put out a book by A and B and getting good sales; why don't you do one with C, and we'll increase your advance by X amount?" And if C is well-known and/or admired by J, and what's more has written a series that J has always longed to add to...it would (and is) hard to resist. And some writers have been doing series, and are getting a bit bored with them, have other ideas they want to do but their contracts stipulate they have to turn out at least 3 more in that series, so they reluctantly flog themselves through them in a rush to get it over with and move on to what they REALLY want to do. Quality suffers. Yes, I know there are exceptions, but still....! Hardy's moor in his Wessex novels was probably one of the early examples of a place being a character...and that's how many Trekkers regarded the origninal *Enterprize*. So I have no problem with possibly the mage storms being a villain. Example(s) of novels which do not necessarily have major villains can be found in some of Anthony Trollope's novels (c'mon, guys, I've been good, I haven't brought him up in months) where the fascination lies in seeing how he reflects changes in Victorian English mores over a period of more than 20 yrs. But I want to say something about villains separately--gotta go catch my bus! --Barra ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 15:57:39 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Too Dim Villains (was Re: Tremane) Message-ID: <9510262247.AA12016-+AT+-baker> >On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Ned wrote: > >> >> One of the best villians in any book I've read shows up in the books I >> just finished reading: C.S. Friedman's When True Night Falls and Black >> Sun Rising (hope I remembered those correctly). I don't want to say too >> much right now, since it gives away part of the first book, so I'll toss >> in some spoiler space... > >Yes, yes, yes - a perfect example. I literally didn't know WHO to root >for after awhile. Friedman does an excellent job of playing one off of >the other (hero & villain that is), and I found myself yelling at the >"hero" to stop being such an idiot because they needed each other to >accomplish his goal! > >BTW - there is a third book due out sometime, I forget the name of it though. > >Cecile The Third book is out in hardback here, but I've forgotten the name already. Saw it at Waldenbooks last week. Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 18:58:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Jennifer Broekman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Authors Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Amy Mason wrote: > A little of the subject, but does anyone on this list enjoy Marion Zimmer > Bradley's Darkover series? I think some things in her novels directly > parallel Misty's novels. Such as the telepathic powers. I love MZB's Darkover books (and a lot of her other books). I'm not sure that I think the two sets of psi powers are parallels, though, aside from existance... Rumor has it that MZB is 'giving' Darkover to Misty when she dies. One can only hope that Misty is required to keep the world as open as MZB has... -jenneke jsb-+AT+-phantom.com new .sig in development ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 16:06:09 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Too Dim Villains(Robert Jordan) Message-ID: <9510262255.AA12157-+AT+-baker> >From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) >>> >>>A good set of 3d villians comes out of Robert Jordan's books. >>> >>>All of them have different personalities and motives, none of them make >>>mistakes that are out of character. >>> >> >>Yah, I'm addicted too. I really recomend them for their complexity. >>Although they start out using the same old formula that most fantasy books >>do, he's a skilled writer and after tha first couple of books some >>unexpected things start to happen. (Reminds me a little bit of the plot >>structure of the Belgariad by David Eddings.) Because they are so typical >>I've never really known why I like them so much, but I do. His charecters >>rally ARE interesting and complicated. They've surprised me a lot more than >>the heros ever have! > >I like Eddings too, but if you're ever on rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan, >don't _ever_ mention that! And also _never_, *_never_* compare Eddings >to Jordan there. If you do, you _will_ be flamed beyond all recogintion. >I have seen this happen to inummerable newbies there. For some reason, >most of the people on rasfwrj absolutely despise Eddings. I agree with >some of their points (come on David, think up a _new_ story for a >change, don't just give the hero and the pretty blue rock new names.), >but I enjoy the books anyway. > >Mat T. > >-- >Mat Timmerman >accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu >"I don't care what you smell, just get in there." I only read the Belgariad and the Malorian before I quit reading (ok, i admit i read a bit of his saphire rose book but when reading it gave away stuff in his other unrelated series i stopped.) his books for that very reason. At first, the fact that the Malorean and Belgariad have the same plot makes sence (ie it's explained), but after that he should have come up with a new book and some new charecters to be in it. -Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 191 *********************************