MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 197 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: books'n'such by Ned 2) Re: Villains/Tolkien by "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" 3) Re: books'n'such by Irene Chen 4) Re: Tremane by dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) 5) Re: books'n'such by dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) 6) Re: Tremane by Gyrfalcon 7) Tad Williams by Hollie Virgin 8) Re: books'n'such by "Sarah Stock" 9) Re: books'n'such by ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) 10) Re: A new book to recommend by ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) 11) Complaining again? by ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) 12) Re: Tad Williams by wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) 13) Cancel by Skymeat-+AT+-aol.com 14) Re: books'n'such by "Katherine M. Brielmaier" 15) Re: Tad Williams by Ashke 16) Re: Tad Williams by Jellicle Cats Come Out Tonight! 17) Re: Cancel by Gyrfalcon 18) Re: Tad Williams by Gyrfalcon 19) Re: Tremane by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 20) Re: books'n'such by GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU 21) Re: Tolkien(book to recomend) by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 22) Re: books'n'such by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 23) RE: books'n'such by Todd Fox ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 18:12:36 -0500 (EST) From: Ned To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: books'n'such Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Oct 1995, Rich Crawford wrote: > > Did anyone else enjoy Tad Williams' series "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" (_The > Dragonbone Chair_, _Stone of Farewell_, and _To Green Angel Tower_)? I > often feel like I'm the only one. > > Actually, I read the series and I liked it: It did, however, get a bit away from the author. Williams didn't quite have the skill to keep an epic that large moving: it really dragged at times. I liked the surprise ending and I kicked myself for not putting all te clues together. Did anyone else get the feeling that when Williams finished "The Stone of Farewell", he had no idea how to get everyone back together for the finale, and that is why the last book was so long: he needed to tell 3-4 different stories in order to get all of his characters into place. Zhai'helleva Ned Ned Adams aka S. Baldrick Sometimes it is better to light a sbaldric-+AT+-roanoke.infi.net flamethrower than to curse the darkness (540) 890-0212 (T. Pratchett) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 18:26:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Villains/Tolkien Message-ID: <8kZJwjm00iVE0=OXwM-+AT+-andrew.cmu.edu> IMHO, a lot of the trouble with writing villains is the unpleasantness of getting *inside* a really foul villain's head. C.S. Lewis (friend of Tolkien, and as a much better-known writer at the time, did a lot to help get critics and readers to take him seriously) once said that the hardest and nastiest piece of writing he ever did was doing *The Screwtape Letters* and "Screwtape Revisited*, which were written from the viewpoint of a demon instructing a lesser demon on how to seduce a Christian's soul. Lewis felt soiled, but they are brilliant, especiallly the first one. Would you want to spend the necessary time figuring out how to write from the viewpoint of, say, Hitler? I wouldn't. And I don't think that ML does either, which may be a problem with her villains. If you make the vilain all black, you run the danger of being really over-the-top and/or seeming 1 to 2-dimensional. Most people aren't all evil, anymore than most aren't all good. The way we appear to others is largely subjective. One of the oldest writing exercises is to write about the same person, and have the choice of words reflect (showing, not telling) the reader your attitude towards the person. Example: skinny bottle-blond bimbo slunk The down the stairs. slender/willowy sunny-haired lady glided Anyhoo, on to Tolkien...who, BTW, did have a number of secondary grey villains, including the Sackville-Bagginses. Lotho and his repellent mother Lobelia. In a way, you could include (oh, drat, can't think of his name, one of the companions, Faramir's brother) the guy with the horn who betrayed the Hobbits out of misguided patriotism/desire for power to save his people. Boromir, that's the one. And Denethor, and in a limited way, the old king of Rohan, The/oden. Some of these (most, in fact) are able to change out of villains to good, redeemed, folks. (Tolkien was a devout Catholic, and this was one of his themes) Okay, someone was asking about the Simarillion, Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, etc. Tolkien was an Oxford (and later Cambridge) don, by training and passion, a philologist. He was fascinated by languages and by the Nordic mythos, particularly the legends about Asgard. One of his first professional jobs was as a professor of Anglo-Saxon literature. His translations of the Pearl Poet and the Sir Orfeo legend are IMO brilliant, and I recommend them highly. I mentioned passion in connection with philology, which is (briefly) defined as "linguistics, including historical and comparative linguistics." After a long day of lecturing, research, tutoring students, and trying to figure out how to earn a little extra money for his wife and kids, Tolkien would go home, sit in the garage, and invent languages. Eventually he decided to invent a people and history to go with them. This was a lifelong thing with him, from around 1914, when he was a soldier during WW! recuperating from wounds, until he died around 1968. Out of this came the stories he tried out on his kids, which became the Hobbit, sort of a prequel to the Lord of the Rings. Now, I agree that the Hobbit is kind of hard to get into --all that cutesy mushy stuff in the beginning, but this was kind of the status quo of kids' books that he was familiar with and so was whoever his editor was at the time. There's a little of that, unfortunately, in the beginning of the first volume of LOTR, *The Fellowship of the Ring*. But if you can grit your teeth and get past that, the rest of it is good stuff. He took a lot of what he loved to read about himself--dwarves, elves, epic battles, magic rings, etc., and reworked it. Someone on this list remarked that he was the father of serious fantasy as we know it now, and he was. Because Tolkien was also a good creative, original writer, and so he created not only languages, but an entire secondary world, which is what most scifi/fantasy writers ever since have tried, with varying success, to do. ML is one of the successful ones, and all the ones who are so lovingly and enthusiastically recommended on this list. In fact, the term "secondary world" is one he coined in his essay "Tree & Leaf" (which you'll find in *The Tolkien Reader*, and I cannot recommend it highly enough to anyone who has a deep interest in fantasy literature...or in any kind of literature. Go read it. Please! And he also created hobbits and the ents (my favorites). My big brother Jeff got a bigger allowance than I did, and so he could buy more books than I could. For years, he would allow me to borrow his ...for a price. That was usually having to look at AND DESCRIBE CORRECTLY so he knew I was looking, the latest additions to his collection of coins and later of medals and orders of merit. [He is an international expert in their mintmarks and has written a landmark reference book on the subject. Bores the socks off me, but I am proud of him--the research took 15 yrs., with little/no support from anybody else]. Anyway, Jeff got *The Fellowship of the Ring* (vol. 1) first. It was great. Six months went by, and then he got...*The Return of the King* (vol. 3). Several more months passed, and he got...*The Hobbit*. Better than nothing at all. And finally, over a year later, he got *The Two Towers* (vol 2), so I was finally put out of my misery as to not knowing what happened in the middle--which I find excruciating. And then I got my own copies, and everything else I could find by or about him, and the other Inklings as well. Although I admit, I have had tough sledding with The Silmarillion (prequel by several thousand years to the Hobbit and LOTR; in fact, it begins with the creation of that world) and with most of the posthumous stuff since then. But I am not a philologist; I am interested in character and plot and dialogue. For years I have been buying the modules put out by I.C.E. [Iron Crown Enterprises] for the LOTR MIddle-Earth Role-Playing game. Not, I mention, because I play this. I don't; I have never known anyone else who does. No. I buy them to use the maps, weather info, herb lists, currency exchanges, etc., to help me in writing my own Middle-Earth stories set in Gondor and Rohan. He died much too soon, without writing enough, dammit. You could say I'm a fan....8^) If, like me, you enjoy story, then try the LOTR first, then backtrack to the Hobbit and the Silmarillion. Don't miss out on his non-Middle-Earth writings: the short pieces in the *Tolkien Reader*, and *Smith of Wooten Major*, and if you are interested in the more scholarly stuff, his translations of *Beowulf* and *The Pearl Poet* and *Sir Orfeo*. And let me know what you think. Sorry to be so long-winded. Hard to be brief when talking about something you love so much. --Barra, who has to find time soon to get Owlfeather Wanderfoot and her companions off the Ice Bridge in the Ephel Du/ath. Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb Harpers have pluck--but don't get strung out.--Barra the Bard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 19:03:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Irene Chen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: books'n'such Message-ID: > > Did anyone else enjoy Tad Williams' series "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" (_The > Dragonbone Chair_, _Stone of Farewell_, and _To Green Angel Tower_)? I > often feel like I'm the only one. > You're not alone! I've only read _The Dragonbone Chair_ and _Stone of Farewell_, but both are definitely worth reading, even if the characters aren't quite as original as Misty's. To throw out another name, one of my other favorite authors is David Brin (he's more sci-fi, but it's very humanistic). His stuff was incredibly powerful, especially _The Postman_. later, Irene ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 17:47:51 -0500 From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tremane Message-ID: <199510302247.RAA31226-+AT+-prague.crossover.com> > >>From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) >> Subject: Re: Tremane >> >> No, "villains" are not necessary to a story: _conflict_ is >> necessary, but it can perfectly well be a conflict between people, all of >> whom are trying to do the best they can in bad circumstances, but they all >> have mutually exclusive requirements and goals. The American Congress is a >> reasonably good example of this. > >I have read stories with no villain except nature. Forest fires, hurricanes, >plagues etc. > >John jdo-+AT+-uow.edu.au > Ok, you caught me out...I thought about going into the different "man against man", "man against nature", "man against self" motifs, but then decided to just keep my point short. Anyone, someone else listed the motifs already, so I don't need to do it here...hey, wait a minute -- :> Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 17:58:00 -0500 From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: books'n'such Message-ID: <199510302258.RAA31251-+AT+-prague.crossover.com> >At 09:08 PM 10/30/95 GMT, you wrote: >>On Mon, 30 Oct 1995 17:03:15 GMT Hollie Virgin wrote: >> >>> 2) On Sun, 29 Oct 1995, Adrienne York wrote: >>> >>> >Oh, Vivian, don't be ashamed to admit you never finished the Hobbit. I >>> >have never read one Tolkien book. >>> >>> *raises hand hesitantly* add me to the list of heretics... though I've >>> actually read all but _Return of the King._ >> >>I read the Hobbit when I was about 17/18, didn't particularly like it and >>kept clear of TLOTR, until my mother bought it for me when I was ill and >>_needed_ something new to read. >> >>It took a day to read and, when I finished it, I _knew_ why I had left it. >> >>David. >> >I've read "The Hobbit" about five times in my life; the first time was when >I was eight or so. The rest of the series I finally got around to reading >when I was 17. It was rough, but I finally was able to get through it (_The >Two Towers_ is the hardest book to get through). I've tried to read it >since, but have gotten bogged down in the middle of _Fellowship_ each time. >I like the books; I guess that reading them is a feat that can only be done >once in a lifetime. > >Did anyone else enjoy Tad Williams' series "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" (_The >Dragonbone Chair_, _Stone of Farewell_, and _To Green Angel Tower_)? I >often feel like I'm the only one. > >........................................................................... >............................... >Zhai'helleva >Rich > > My father read LotR to me when I was about six...we would both lean against the headboard while he read, and he was always very tired, (he worked long hours) and would fall asleep after a few pages. His thoughts and words would drift as he nodded off, so I'd get things like: "And then . Frodo said to .. Sam, ... "Airplane thursdayoffice mumbleshmph....." And I'd elbow him awake and say "Dad! That's not what it says!" We finally got through it. It sat on my shelves for years, until I pulled it out and read it when I was somewhere in my teens. Then about a year ago, I got the urge again and slogged through the Swamps of Unending Verbiage once more. Each time, I have gotten something different and valuable out of the books. They are definitely not light reading, and I can't bring myself to read them often, the way I do with other books, but they ARE worth keeping around. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 19:38:39 -0500 (EST) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tremane Message-ID: > And now I'll get down off my soapbox and dust off my feet. Sorry for the > lengthy commentary, but the mood just hit me... You know, that sounded like it smarts. --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 19:45:21 -0500 (EST) From: Hollie Virgin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Tad Williams Message-ID: <199510310045.TAA02981-+AT+-service1.cc.uky.edu> On Mon, 30 Oct 1995, Rich Crawford wrote: >Did anyone else enjoy Tad Williams' series "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" (_The >Dragonbone Chair_, _Stone of Farewell_, and _To Green Angel Tower_)? I >often feel like I'm the only one. I liked them once I managed to get into them. _Stone of Farewell_ is the one I remember liking best, surprisingly enough...the middle books of trilogies never seem to be quite as good as the other two... (LHM, for example, but that's just MHO...) It took me forever to plow through _Dragonbone Chair,_ and then kind of abandoned the series for a while because nobody I knew had the second and third books, and I didn't feel like buying them myself. Has anyone read his non-MS&T book, _Tailchaser's Song_? It's basically _Watership Down_ with cats, but I absolutely adored it. (I was a cat in a former life, you see... *purrgrin*) Hollie Virgin ehvirg00-+AT+-pop.uky.edu "She will remember your heart when men are fairytales in books written by rabbits." -The Last Unicorn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 13:17:35 +1200 From: "Sarah Stock" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: books'n'such Message-ID: <199510310110.OAA22463-+AT+-ftp.paradigm.co.nz> > I've read "The Hobbit" about five times in my life; the first time was when > I was eight or so. The rest of the series I finally got around to reading > when I was 17. It was rough, but I finally was able to get through it (_The > Two Towers_ is the hardest book to get through). I've tried to read it > since, but have gotten bogged down in the middle of _Fellowship_ each time. > I like the books; I guess that reading them is a feat that can only be done > once in a lifetime. Am I the only person who loves Tolkein? Dad read the Hobbit to me when I was very young, and then I read what seemed like a different book later. I read Tolkien one weekend when I was 14 or so, and have never had an experience quite the same. I felt completely dislocated from the real world for days. I still read it about once year, whenever I can spare the time. He ranks up there as one of the best fantasy writers for me. > > Did anyone else enjoy Tad Williams' series "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" (_The > Dragonbone Chair_, _Stone of Farewell_, and _To Green Angel Tower_)? I > often feel like I'm the only one. > ............................... > Zhai'helleva > Rich HATED IT. Its really rare for me to not finish a book, but the Dragonbone Chair and Steven Donaldson's Thomas Convent books I could not read. I have heard from friends that the other books in the Williams series were better. Anyone else read Ru Emerson. Great female character, strong in medival society. Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 95 20:01 CST From: ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: books'n'such Message-ID: > >Did anyone else enjoy Tad Williams' series "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" (_The >Dragonbone Chair_, _Stone of Farewell_, and _To Green Angel Tower_)? I >often feel like I'm the only one. > >........................................................................... >............................... >Zhai'helleva >Rich > > > No Rich....You are not the only one! (happy grin) Although it took me awhile to get through the Dragonbone Chair, I was able to purchase Stone of Farewell and To Green Angel Tower together and read them both in less than two weeks. What starts as a kind of Belgariad, quasi-Crystal Cave, very Lloyd Alexander type story: boy+wizard= grand adventure, turns into a very rich story complete with characters you care deeply about. I compare this series to the Janny Wurts saga starting with Curse of the Mistwriath and The Ships of Merior, as well as Wizard's First Rule and Stone of Farewell, by Terry Goodkind. That's the reason I think we all like Misty: even though sometimes her story may fall short or end abruptly, she always has great heros to dream about. Firefly ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net Firefly ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 95 20:01 CST From: ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A new book to recommend Message-ID: >> >> > > > I'm afraid I come down on the "con" side on this one, Firefly...it's >been several years since I read them, but I believe I read all four of the >"Sword" books, and my only comment is: > > ugh > > > > Ah well, you can't win 'em all! :) Gotta love it! Firefly ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net Firefly ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 95 20:20 CST From: ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Complaining again? Message-ID: I hate to think that I'm complaining...AGAIN...but I was wondering if anyone else out there was put out of sorts by what I consider Cheating on the Grand Scale that a lot of popular authors, Misty, Anne McCaffrey, Piers Anthony et all) are writing book with REALLY BIG LETTERING, to fool us, Constant Readers into thinking that we are getting more for our money? IMO if Arrow's of the Queen had been printed in the same type set as most of the Bardic Voices and the new novel The Fire Rose, it would have looked about as thick as Mickey Zucker Reichert's Last of the Renshai! Am I the only one who feels cheated? That maybe if these folks would spend a little more time writing out the overly hurried endings to their stories they wouldn't have to subject us to the hated REALLY BIG PRINT? Please, I wear glasses, but I do not yet have a subscription to the Enlarged Print book club. I am curious to hear your opinions! Firefly ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net Firefly ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 18:17:29 -0800 From: wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tad Williams Message-ID: <199510310217.SAA01074-+AT+-ix3.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > >On Mon, 30 Oct 1995, Rich Crawford wrote: > >>Did anyone else enjoy Tad Williams' series "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" (_The >>Dragonbone Chair_, _Stone of Farewell_, and _To Green Angel Tower_)? I >>often feel like I'm the only one. > >I liked them once I managed to get into them. _Stone of Farewell_ is the >one I remember liking best, surprisingly enough...the middle books of >trilogies never seem to be quite as good as the other two... (LHM, for >example, but that's just MHO...) It took me forever to plow through >_Dragonbone Chair,_ and then kind of abandoned the series for a while >because nobody I knew had the second and third books, and I didn't feel like >buying them myself. I've read the entire Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn trilogy twice... It took me twice before I managed to get all the subplots straight... I really liked them once I got into them, but getting into them was a little slow.... Of course for anyone who managed to get through the first 10 chapters of The Witching Hour by Anne Rice it should be no big deal! BTW: I resent that remark about Magic's Promise! I happen to be in that book! I lurved all three of Vanyel's stories... If I didn't already know the ending (and fear that a new one would kill some of the magic in those books, and I don't mean magecraft) I'd almost wish she'd go back and fill in the blanks... - Shadow-Lover Who knows all, and just isn't telling... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 21:28:45 -0500 From: Skymeat-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Cancel Message-ID: <951030212843_93725360-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> MERCEDES-LACKEY CANCEL TODD MCKERNAN ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 95 22:58:24 CST From: "Katherine M. Brielmaier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: books'n'such Message-ID: <91956.brie0030-+AT+-gold.tc.umn.edu> On Tue, 31 Oct 1995 02:02:49 GMT, Sarah Stock wrote: >Am I the only person who loves Tolkein? Dad read the Hobbit to me >when I was very young, and then I read what seemed like a different >book later. I read Tolkien one weekend when I was 14 or so, and have >never had an experience quite the same. I felt completely dislocated >from the real world for days. I still read it about once year, >whenever I can spare the time. He ranks up there as one of the best >fantasy writers for me. You are not alone, I promise you. Tolkien remains one of the most treasured things in my personal library, and I reread it every year or so...every fall I just get to feeling Tookish, if you know what I mean.:) There's been a lot of talk about his extended description and metaphor, but I guess I never even noticed that, if it's there at all. To me, it's beautiful writing, creating a world so real and complex that it's become a part of me. I can see these places, smell the air and hear the crunch of leaves under my feet, and for me, that just doesn't happen with other books. *on another note* Mat T. recommended Diane Duane's young adult books about wizardry (So You Want to be a Wizard? etc.), and I wholeheartedly second the recommendation. Those are another favorite part of my library, and I enjoyed every second of reading them (and re-reading them). I was beginning to think I was the only one who'd ever heard of them though! (I just about kissed the screen when I saw that, Mat.) I am awaiting the next book in the series with feverish impatience. 's e do bheatha dai'stiho, Mat ;) Kaatje ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 23:44:56 -0500 (EST) From: Ashke To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tad Williams Message-ID: I /loved/ Tailchaser's Song! Read that as a kid and still love it, even though I haven't been able to get into his other stuff -- maybe it's because I neve really sat down and tried. Who knows. :) Cat Lover Extraordinare... -- Ashke ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Which guise shall I wear today, my dears? | The laughing mask or the one of tears? | If we weren't all crazy, Well, since my heart is blithe and gay | we would go insane. This sober one I shall wear today. | -- Zula Hall | -- Jimmy Buffett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 23:53:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Jellicle Cats Come Out Tonight! To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tad Williams Message-ID: <01HX2IQ998KA9SB9LA-+AT+-utkvx.utk.edu> >Has anyone read his non-MS&T book, _Tailchaser's >Song_? It's basically _Watership Down_ with cats, but I absolutely adored >it. (I was a cat in a former life, you see... *purrgrin*) I adore Tailchaser's Song. It is a lot like Watership Down, but the mysticism takes a different slant. They are both excellent reads, however. nre'fa-o Amy, long-time lurker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 00:11:55 -0500 (EST) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Cancel Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Oct 1995 Skymeat-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > MERCEDES-LACKEY CANCEL TODD MCKERNAN > Oh No, Your ours, ours I tell you... We have your soul. Such a pretty little soul, so bright and shiny. NO! Mine, it is our precciouss, ours. Not for the nasty Hobbit to takes away. Uh I'm back. Sorry. --Gyrfalcon "Gollum" =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 00:15:13 -0500 (EST) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tad Williams Message-ID: >Has anyone read his non-MS&T book, _Tailchaser's >Song_? It's basically _Watership Down_ with cats, but I absolutely adored >it. (I was a cat in a former life, you see... *purrgrin*) Been there, read that, loved it, had me purring for a week afterwards. --Gyrfalcon "Meow" =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 21:28:32 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tremane Message-ID: <9510310518.AA02980-+AT+-baker> >>From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) >> Subject: Re: Tremane >> >> No, "villains" are not necessary to a story: _conflict_ is >> necessary, but it can perfectly well be a conflict between people, all of >> whom are trying to do the best they can in bad circumstances, but they all >> have mutually exclusive requirements and goals. The American Congress is a >> reasonably good example of this. > >I have read stories with no villain except nature. Forest fires, hurricanes, >plagues etc. > >John > There are three basic conflicts in literature- Man vs man (like Vanyel and Learth), Man vs nature (like so and so gets lost in the woods ext...) and man vs self (this one should be obvious). Some books have all of these, some only one. Some have animals as main charecters, but the rest remains the same. Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 0:49:41 -0500 (EST) From: GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: books'n'such Message-ID: <951031004941.2023bbb8-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU> >Am I the only person who loves Tolkein? Dad read the Hobbit to me >when I was very young, and then I read what seemed like a different >book later. I read Tolkien one weekend when I was 14 or so, and have >never had an experience quite the same. I felt completely dislocated >from the real world for days. I still read it about once year, >whenever I can spare the time. He ranks up there as one of the best >fantasy writers for me. No, you are not alone. I love Tolkien's _Lord of the Rings_ series. Sure it is hard to keep everyone straight and the detail is overwellming at times, but this is what makes it so exciting. You can read his books over and over and still find something new and exciting in them. This is what draws me to his books this wonderful feeling that I am discovering something new even though I have heard it all before. I feel like I am in another world when I read his writing. So don't worry you are not the only one out their who loves Tolkein. Jennie gerkej-+AT+-minnie.hollins.edu "We are streched on the rock between the craving to know and the despair of having know. The goad will not give up its sting, nor we our hope." -Reni Char ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 21:53:54 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tolkien(book to recomend) Message-ID: <9510310543.AA04141-+AT+-baker> > Now, I agree that the Hobbit is kind of hard to get into --all that >cutesy mushy stuff in the beginning, but this was kind of the status quo >of kids' books that he was familiar with and so was whoever his editor >was at the time. There's a little of that, unfortunately, in the >beginning of the first volume of LOTR, *The Fellowship of the Ring*. But >if you can grit your teeth and get past that, the rest of it is good >stuff. --Barra, who has to find time > soon to get Owlfeather Wanderfoot > and her companions off the Ice > Bridge in the Ephel Du/ath. There's an author from the 1800's that wrote for children that I recomend. I think his name is George MacDonald and he wrote The Princess and The Goblin, and a sequel- The Princess and Curdie. He also wrote another book called The Light Princess that is totally unrelated. They all have sort of a fairy tale atsmophere and if you like old children's stories, you'd like these. Did anyone else read these as a child? The other books I'd recomend are the Andrew Lang "Fairy" books.(ie "The Blue Fairy Book", "The Lilac Fairy Book", ext...) These are collections of fairy tales from all over the world and I still love them. Its fun to see these stories and also myths repeated in current fantasy. Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 22:04:45 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: books'n'such Message-ID: <9510310554.AA04672-+AT+-baker> >On Tue, 31 Oct 1995 02:02:49 GMT, >Sarah Stock wrote: > >>Am I the only person who loves Tolkein? No, I love Tolkein too. Just because I can't read them every day doesn't mean I don't think they're one of the best series I've ever read. good stuff. >*on another note* >Mat T. recommended Diane Duane's young adult books about wizardry (So You >Want to be a Wizard? etc.), and I wholeheartedly second the >recommendation. Those are another favorite part of my library, and I >enjoyed every second of reading them (and re-reading them). I was >beginning to think I was the only one who'd ever heard of them though! (I >just about kissed the screen when I saw that, Mat.) I am awaiting the next >book in the series with feverish impatience. > >Kaatje What a coincidence! I just today found a hardback copy with the first three books in a thrift shop. Picked that up in a hurry! Read them when I was younger and look forward to reading them again. A bit silly, but definately fun. Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 01:52:40 -0700 From: Todd Fox To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: books'n'such Message-ID: <01BAA735.728787E0-+AT+-dialup11.tesser.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAA735.72D24C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think Tad Williams is an amzing writer, I get into his writing more than anyone else's except Misty's. > I've read "The Hobbit" about five times in my life; the first time was when > I was eight or so. The rest of the series I finally got around to reading > when I was 17. It was rough, but I finally was able to get through it (_The > Two Towers_ is the hardest book to get through). I've tried to read it > since, but have gotten bogged down in the middle of _Fellowship_ each time. > I like the books; I guess that reading them is a feat that can only be done > once in a lifetime. Am I the only person who loves Tolkein? Dad read the Hobbit to me when I was very young, and then I read what seemed like a different book later. I read Tolkien one weekend when I was 14 or so, and have never had an experience quite the same. I felt completely dislocated from the real world for days. I still read it about once year, whenever I can spare the time. He ranks up there as one of the best fantasy writers for me. > > Did anyone else enjoy Tad Williams' series "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" (_The > Dragonbone Chair_, _Stone of Farewell_, and _To Green Angel Tower_)? I > often feel like I'm the only one. > ............................... > Zhai'helleva > Rich HATED IT. Its really rare for me to not finish a book, but the Dragonbone Chair and Steven Donaldson's Thomas Convent books I could not read. I have heard from friends that the other books in the Williams series were better. Anyone else read Ru Emerson. Great female character, strong in medival society. 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