MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 219

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: HELP! What is going on here?
	by Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
  2) Re: Vanyel
	by Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
  3) Re: Hallowe'en
	by Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
  4) Re: several things. (and a promise... ;)
	by EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com
  5) Re: Companions, bonded choosings, and mindspeaking
	by urtho-+AT+-stargazer.netshop.net (Kyle Matheson AKA 'God')
  6) Re: first exposure to fantasy
	by Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
  7) Re: Di Tregarde
	by Karieva-+AT+-aol.com
  8) Re: first exposure to fantasy
	by Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
  9) RE: Plea For Help
	by Catherine A Murdoch <ulcam-+AT+-dewey.newcastle.edu.au>
 10) Re: first exposure to fantasy
	by Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
 11) Re: from Science Fiction to Fantasy
	by Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
 12) Re: from Science Fiction to Fantasy
	by Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
 13) Re: Not a companion but.....
	by Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
 14) Re: NEW POLL!
	by Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
 15) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 215
	by dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs)
 16) Re: Not a companion but.....
	by Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
 17) Big teeth, ooohhh!! :>
	by dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs)
 18) C-H MINDSPEAKING
	by ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com
 19) Monarch's Own Companion
	by ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com
 20) Re: Replies to several different threads
	by SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL)
 21) Re: Shadow Stalker
	by "Sanna Koulu" <SKOULU-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi>
 22) A whole new can of worms
	by ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com
 23) ADMIN: *bemused look*
	by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper)
 24) Re: Not a companion but.....
	by "Sanna Koulu" <SKOULU-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi>
 25) Re: Companions (and others) mindspeaking..
	by "Sanna Koulu" <SKOULU-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi>
 26) Re: first SF/Fantasy
	by Rosario Holsen-Baker <rholsen-+AT+-sidwell.edu>
 27) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 212
	by "Sandy Haas" <SANDRAH-+AT+-rackham.umich.edu>
 28) Re: Companions, bonded choosings, and mindspeaking
	by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
 29) To Mindspeak or not to mindspeak...
	by SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL)
 30) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 212
	by SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL)
 31) Re: Di Tregarde
	by "Aphrael" <LBELZER-+AT+-sbu.edu>
 32) Re: Followers?
	by owl <BLGRUB-+AT+-main.rmwc.edu>
 33) Re: several things. (and a promise... ;)
	by SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:59:16 -0700 (MDT)
From: Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: HELP! What is going on here?
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951109205457.133268A-100000-+AT+-mirac.unm.edu>

On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, David K. Storrs wrote:
	> Within the past week or so, the traffic on
> this list.
	One way we could improve things is to not send the entire letter 
we are replying to.  Delete what you don't need.	
	                       kitty-+AT+-unm.edu
The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer.
								-Jennifer Nolan
         <a href="http://www.unm.edu/~kitty/">Suika no hmpg</a>


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:35:38 -0700 (MDT)
From: Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Vanyel
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951109212857.133268B-100000-+AT+-mirac.unm.edu>

On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, Aphrael wrote:
extreme snippage:
> Vanyel walked in.
> Unfortunately, he graduated.  
>  Lyn 
	FIND HIM!  Where did he go?  Anything about him you know?  ANYTHING!
You didn't stalk him?  Maybe I'm being a bit illogical, but....if he is 
on-line anywhere we could get a real, live Vanyel to talk to.  Sorry 
guys, but I know what he looks like, and all of you are blank personalities.
			Zoe Guin, who has just been completely illogical 
and rude and sexist, and you name it, oh, yeah, and hedonistical, and 
basing everything on appearance.....please forgive me eventually, for I 
know not what I've done.  And don't tell my mother about this.  
	                       kitty-+AT+-unm.edu
The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer.
								-Jennifer Nolan
         <a href="http://www.unm.edu/~kitty/">Suika no hmpg</a>


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:52:45 -0700 (MDT)
From: Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Hallowe'en
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951109214721.133268C-100000-+AT+-mirac.unm.edu>

On Fri, 3 Nov 1995, Gjuka wrote:
> I've been
> known to watch whole Red Dwarf marathons.
	Where do you get this stuff?!  I love Red Dwarf, but I've only 
been able to find a few episodes at the video stores.  Marathons?!  More 
information on this would be greatly appreciated.  By the by, there is 
nothing wrong with spending days locked up with a good story, even on 
television.  Except of course you have a very important job/class you 
should be at, in which case, it is inadvisable.
				Zoe Guin, though Kitty seconds this.
	                       kitty-+AT+-unm.edu
The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer.
								-Jennifer Nolan
         <a href="http://www.unm.edu/~kitty/">Suika no hmpg</a>



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 00:01:00 -0500
From: EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: several things. (and a promise... ;)
Message-ID: <951110000006_102819050-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com>

To add my two cents to the poll I am gay.  I really got into Misty because of
Vanyel and his being the main character in a series.  Then from there I moved
onto her other stuff.  I am 24 to answer the other question and working for a
couple years before going back to school to try yet another major, been
through hotel/restaurant management, business management, history, and now
counceling.  With a minor in english.  Whew!!  But enough about me.  
In reference to anyone interested in Queen's Own JOIN!!!  It is great and I
have been a member for over 5 years now.  Thats all.  
Eric

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 21:03 PST
From: urtho-+AT+-stargazer.netshop.net (Kyle Matheson AKA 'God')
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Companions, bonded choosings, and mindspeaking
Message-ID: <m0tDlch-000LpjC-+AT+-netshop.net>

>>Just had an idea, in Arrow's Flight when Kris and Talia first make 
>>love even though Kris is not an empathic Talia is able to use her 
>>empathy and make him feel a bit of what she feels, however, Kris 
>>isn't able to do the same for her, I guess with Dirk who she IS 
>>lifebonded to it would be the same.  Empathy is a gift like 
>>mindspeech, so I think I am trying to say that lifebonded dont' 
>>automatically share the same gifts.

        The thing about Talia is that she is a projective empath.  This
means she can send out empathic messages as well as recieve them.  Remember
in Arrow's flight when Talia was bombarded with other peoples feelings and
emotions and a the same time she was projecting emotion.  So Talia and Dirk
would be able to share Talia's gift(sorta).

Amberdrake


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:11:38 -0700 (MDT)
From: Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: first exposure to fantasy
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951109220056.133268D-100000-+AT+-mirac.unm.edu>

	I won't bore you.  I was thoroughly against sci-fi, and, sorry, I 
still am.  However, I was also against fantasy, which I am not now.  My 
first, 6th grade, 11 years old.  _Heart's Blood_, by I forget who.  It was 
followed by the rest of the trilogy, also forgotten.  Somewhere near 
there was _Children of the Dust_ by I also forget who.  Young Adults 
section, and slightly childish, but I remember thinking that it was very 
good and very deep.  I recommend all of these, if you can find them, 
despite their age level.
				Zoe Guin {(*j*)}
	                       kitty-+AT+-unm.edu
The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer.
								-Jennifer Nolan
         <a href="http://www.unm.edu/~kitty/">Suika no hmpg</a>


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 00:17:37 -0500
From: Karieva-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Di Tregarde
Message-ID: <951110001735_18145226-+AT+-mail06.mail.aol.com>

>>On my other list, there was a mention of female role models (Dana 
>>Scully, if anyone cares) and the lack of one, ITHO, of course. Well, I 
>>don't know about anyone else, but Di Tregarde is pretty much one of my 
>>role models. Anyone else?
>>
>>|-------------------------------<<JAGUAR>>-------------------------------|

I consider Di one of my main role models...along with a character from Gail
Boudino's Strands of Starlight series. (I guess it's another one of the ways
I'm wierd, but my role models have always been fictional.)

I really was glad to find strong caring PAGAN women to look up to...

Karieva-+AT+-aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:18:38 -0700 (MDT)
From: Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: first exposure to fantasy
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951109221455.133268E-100000-+AT+-mirac.unm.edu>


	Forgot to mention this last time but I also read Narnia really 
young, about 4th grade, when I was....lets see....9?  Oh well, 14 years 
and I've already lost more of my memory than my 40 year old mom.  *sigh*
Anyhow, I think Narnia was really my first, but I didn't feel that way at 
the time.
				Zoe Guin, who admits she's not even only 
human, she's also insane!!!!!hee hee.{(*j*)}
	                       kitty-+AT+-unm.edu
The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer.
								-Jennifer Nolan
         <a href="http://www.unm.edu/~kitty/">Suika no hmpg</a>


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:34:20 +1100 (EST)
From: Catherine A Murdoch <ulcam-+AT+-dewey.newcastle.edu.au>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: RE: Plea For Help
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9511101607.E3375-0100000-+AT+-dewey.newcastle.edu.au>


Dear Laura,

I enjoy  reading romances occaisonally, but I definitely do _not_ like 
"bodice-rippers."  One decent romance writer I can recommend is Jayne Ann 
Krentz.  Her heroines have spunk and gumption and are quite capable of 
standing up to the hero.  Alternatively, would your friend read Misty's 
books?  They have romance in them, even if they are not romantic novels.

--                                                                       --
Catherine Murdoch                  | Internet: ulcam-+AT+-dewey.newcastle.edu.au
Auchmuty Library                   | Ph  (intl+61+49) 217147
University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833

"If man could be crossed with a cat, it would improve man, but it would 
 deteriorate the cat."  -  Mark Twain


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:36:07 -0700 (MDT)
From: Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: first exposure to fantasy
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951109223053.133268G-100000-+AT+-mirac.unm.edu>

On Sat, 4 Nov 1995, Gjuka wrote:

>my family still
> teases me about the scene where she has to choose her life, or the life of
> her beloved. I was screaming "kill him!". I guess the subtleties of
> romantic love eluded me.) 
	I'm sorry, but I am quite sadistic.  I personally believe that 
she should have killed him.  Of course, I have been gagged with Disney's 
version, twice in English, and once in French.  I didn't really 
understand that last one, but I could tell it was disgusting because 
Ariel kept kissing the baby whale and singing.  Kill me now!!!!!!!!  
Okay, I'm better now.
			Zoe Guin {(*j*)}  sadistic phante with an attitude.
	                       kitty-+AT+-unm.edu
The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer.
								-Jennifer Nolan
         <a href="http://www.unm.edu/~kitty/">Suika no hmpg</a>


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:55:12 -0700 (MDT)
From: Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: from Science Fiction to Fantasy
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951109224811.133268H-100000-+AT+-mirac.unm.edu>

> I'm just curious as to how many of us discovered SFF on our
> own (without our parent's help) - Surely I'm not the only one... 
Vivian Choh     bi189-+AT+-torfree.net       v.choh-+AT+-utoronto.ca 
	No, you are not.  It was my brother, five years my elder, who 
dragged me under, and he wouldn't let me come up for air, resulting in 
the growth of gills....extreme metaphor,  e.g.  I am drowning and I like 
it.  My mother has introduced me to one group of books, Godstalk and Dark 
of the Moon, a duology that should be a trilogy but we have no proof....
yet.... Anyhow, that's about it.  I really had a lot of help, but though 
my brother is quite dear and like a guardian, he isn't a parent, so I 
feel justified.  And I thank you.  It seemed to me I was alone in a world 
of parentally-involved world, where I was the odd-ball out.
				Zoe Guin {(*j*)}
	                       kitty-+AT+-unm.edu
The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer.
								-Jennifer Nolan
         <a href="http://www.unm.edu/~kitty/">Suika no hmpg</a>



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:02:46 -0700 (MDT)
From: Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: from Science Fiction to Fantasy
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951109225925.133268I-100000-+AT+-mirac.unm.edu>

	Am I the only one who hasn't ever heard of half of the books 
everyone else here has?  I wouldn't be very surprised....what with all 
the rereading I do of the Misty Velgarth novels, and nothing else.  Oh 
well.  I can try.
				Zoe Guin.  I just managed to confuse 
everyone, didn't I?  *Evil Grin* (tm)
	                       kitty-+AT+-unm.edu
The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer.
								-Jennifer Nolan
         <a href="http://www.unm.edu/~kitty/">Suika no hmpg</a>


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:23:42 -0700 (MDT)
From: Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Not a companion but.....
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951109231604.133268K-100000-+AT+-mirac.unm.edu>

On Mon, 6 Nov 1995 SariKr-+AT+-aol.com wrote:

> but I thought I had read or inferred from somewhere
> that if a Herald would lose a companion he would go crazy or just be consumed
> by grief????  I sometimes wonder where I get these ideas from??? <G>
> 
>                                                        Lill
	You did.  I don't care what the other people on this list say.  
Just after Vanyel slashed his wrists in the Grove Temple *sob* Savil 
asked him what he thought he would do to them by dying.  He said he thought 
Yfandes would find someone better and more deserving.  She said that in 
Companion bonds the one rarely survives the others death.  Much 
simplified, hope it helps.  I have lost so many pets I hardly grieve at all.
				Zoe Guin {(*j*)}
	                       kitty-+AT+-unm.edu
The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer.
								-Jennifer Nolan
         <a href="http://www.unm.edu/~kitty/">Suika no hmpg</a>


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:37:52 -0700 (MDT)
From: Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: NEW POLL!
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951109233143.133268L-100000-+AT+-mirac.unm.edu>

On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Adrienne York wrote:

> my brother stole my copies and I'm afraid to go into his room. Something
> might bite me.  
	My brother is in college now in New Orleans and my mother has 
been slowly moving into his room, and I'm _still_ afraid to go in there 
because things _do_ bite me.  Sad but true.
	14, still like them, was kinda confused the first and second 
times through, should try again soon, though.  Ha ha, had myself confused 
there (what's new?).  I mean the Narnia's.  Loved them, still do.  
				Zoe Guin {(*j*)}
	                       kitty-+AT+-unm.edu
The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer.
								-Jennifer Nolan
         <a href="http://www.unm.edu/~kitty/">Suika no hmpg</a>



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 00:33:51 -0500
From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 215
Message-ID: <199511100533.AAA13001-+AT+-prague.crossover.com>

>
>Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 23:17:37 EST
>From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL)
>To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
>Subject: Re: Casting characrers...
>Message-ID: <013.04452401.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com>

>re: movie of Valdemar: I agree. Maybe anime, but i doubt that either. 
>The only movie i"ve seen developed from a book that turned out ok was 
>'interview w/the vampire' and that was 'cuz anne rice wrote the 
>screenplay... even so, i was dissapointed by parts of it.
> 
><hugs and wyvs>
>wyvern
>


        Are you sure about that Wyvern?  I had heard that Anne actually took
out a full page add in the NY Times protesting the movie, saying "This is
not my book, the moviemakers have completely distorted it."

                                Dave, who doesn't know one way or the other


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:55:20 -0700 (MDT)
From: Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz <kitty-+AT+-unm.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Not a companion but.....
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951109234900.133268N-100000-+AT+-mirac.unm.edu>

> What I'm saying is that lifebonds are 'like' twin bonds, and 
> twin bonds don't decrease w/distance
	AHEM!  Sorry to burst anybody's bubble here, but I remember 
'Lendel saying very clearly that his bond with Staven was different from 
other twin bonds in that it didn't decrease with distance.  Savil thought 
it did, which is why he never told her, or else she would have made him 
block it.  But like I was saying, most twin bonds according to 'Lendel 
get weak over distance, and his bond with Staven was very odd in that it 
didn't.  Aren't I an evil person? *smirk, grin*
				Zoe Guin {(*j*)}			
	                       kitty-+AT+-unm.edu
The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer.
								-Jennifer Nolan
         <a href="http://www.unm.edu/~kitty/">Suika no hmpg</a>


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 01:00:11 -0500
From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Big teeth, ooohhh!! :>
Message-ID: <199511100600.BAA13027-+AT+-prague.crossover.com>

>	Jaguar's aren't to easy on their mates either. Big claws, teeth, 
>predatory habits...has anyone ever seen the movie "Cat People?" <gryn>
>
>|-------------------------------<<JAGUAR>>-------------------------------|
>|             "So, so you think you can tell/Heaven from Hell            |
>|     	      Blue skies from pain/Can you tell a green field	         | 
>|     	        From a cold steel rail/A smile from a veil 		 |
>|        	       Do you think you can tell?"  		         |
>|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>			
>

        Big claws and teeth, huh?  Hmmm...
        Personally, I have this thing about nibbling...and even biting and
scratching....  (Ok, so I'm perverse, sue me)  Only ever met one woman who
felt the same way but 

---                 ---    --------      ---                 ---   ||  ||   
    \      -      /       |        |         \      -      /       ||  ||   
     \   /   \   /        |        |          \   /   \   /        
      \_      \_/         |________|           \_      \_/         ..  ..
   
                                
        <Further comments censored by the Meese Commission>


                                        Dave


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 00:05:41 -0800
From: ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: C-H MINDSPEAKING
Message-ID: <951110000538_18217749-+AT+-hp1.online.apple.com>

Wasn't there a passage somewhere (Skif speaking?) where it says all heralds
have to have some mindspeaking, but in some it is so little that nothing
beyond that first choosing by the companion happens?  Even Talia has some
mindspeaking, BTW.  When she was having trouble being trained before they
knew she had the empathy gift, she was being trained as a mindspeaker.
 Something was happening in that pre-empathy training; it just wasn't much.

Also, there is mention somewhere (?) that receiving and sending mindspeach
are two distinct gifts -- one does not necessarily go with the other, and
they are definitely not always equal.

Just my addition to the ponderings! <g>

Wind to thy wings and welcome to thy thoughts,

-- Alice --
ARisemberg-+AT+-eWorld.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 00:05:36 -0800
From: ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Monarch's Own Companion
Message-ID: <951110000530_18217748-+AT+-hp1.online.apple.com>

Does the fact that the MOC is always grove-born help shed any light on the
question of there being one throughout time?  Seems to me, though as far as I
know there is nothing definitive in the books about it, that that's a pretty
strong indication that they're different each time.  How do you all feel
about it?

-- Alice --
ARisemberg-+AT+-eWorld.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 04:53:50 EST
From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Replies to several different threads
Message-ID: <013.04531887.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com>

heyla, all...

<quote>
Maybe Rolan couldn't mindspeak Talia because his mindspeach wasn't 
very 
good.  Since most Heralds have some, it never really was a concern 
before; but with him having little, and Talia having none, it would 
be 
very difficult.

This would mean that stronger mindspeakers, such as Yfandes and 
Savil/Sayvil could mindspeak any one that they choose.

Just because Rolan is Groveborn doesn't mean that he has the strong 
Gifts.
<endquote>

Interesting theory. It's very close to mine, which is that Rolan is 
Grove-born and may not have the same talents as 'regular' companions..
..

<Hugs>
wyvern


------------------------------

Date:          Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:06:10 EET 
From: "Sanna Koulu" <SKOULU-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Shadow Stalker
Message-ID: <A8648F7372-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi>

Shadow-Lover wrote:
(snipp!)
> >> 
> >> So far, my favorite songs are (in no particular order):
> >> Windrider Unchained
> >> Demonsbane
> >> The Colddrake and
> >> Hawk Brother
> >
> >Mmmm...Demonsbane. It's really sweet... though my favorite is 
> >definitely Shadow-lover. Of course. Has anyone noticed that a lot of 
> >the people called Death have blue eyes? Like SL and Discworld's 
> >Death, for example. 
> >
> Shadow-Lover is a definate fav for me too...  I love Windrider 
> Unchained and HawkBrother too...  Was anyone else disappointed in 
> Magic's Price?  If you figure that it was Stefens last ode to Vanyel, I 
> would expect it to be a little more melancholy... It seems too happy 
> to be a tale of a lover's Death...

I don't really like it, no. "Happy" isn't a word I'd use, but the 
melody is much too bouncy. Of course, it might be a hard piece to 
compose, since the lyric lines are so long... but still. (The poem 
_kinda_ fits the melody of "Face Within" from HH&H - that might even 
be a better version)

 I think on the average pieces with short lyric lines are the best - 
like "My Lady's Eyes". (OK, it's drivel, but I like the melody. 
Besides, the guitarist (Steve Einhorn?) makes me green with envy. Why 
can't I play like that? <sniff>)

I dig "Hawkbrother" - it would be interesting to pick all the songs 
with a Tayledras/Shin'a'in tone onto one tape - like Earth Spirit, 
Hawkbrother, Tale'sedrin (Oathbound), The Shin'a'in warsong, the 
kyree piece from BTS etcetera. Can you think of any others? 
> Don't forget Lovers, Lore, and Loss!!!  There are songs on there 
> that rival Shadow-Lover in Tear value...  I cried for hours after 
> Price of the Crown!!

Waaah! <howl> I don't have the damn thing! I know I know, I should 
get it... I fully intend to, but I'm just a poor student with too 
little money for all the books, music, movies etc I want...  


> I agree with everything...  Bout the blue eyes tho...  Has anyone 
> noticed that (with the exception of the Star-Eyed) all the supernatural 
> beings have the same blue eyes...  It seems to carry over into other 
> books too...  I wonder where it comes from...
> 
>                                         - Shadow-Lover 

Hmm? What worlds are you referring to? Tell tell tell! Do you have 
inside information, being one of the blue-eyed beings yourself?<g>

                                   -Seanna


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 02:42:44 -0800
From: ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: A whole new can of worms
Message-ID: <951110024232_18220902-+AT+-hp1.online.apple.com>

<Just because Rolan is Groveborn doesn't mean that he has the strong Gifts.>

This brings up a whole new question, or bunch of questions...  hmmmm...

Just how different/varied are the companions abilities?  Do they correspond
with the abilities of the heralds reborn as them?  In practical terms, what
does Grove born mean?  (Isn't there some mention of Gwena being superbright
to magesight compared to Skif's Cymry?  Or maybe I am confusing it with how
"huge" Elspeth was to magesight.  You tell me :-D)

And BTW, I lean strongly on the side of reincarnation of heralds.  I think
Sayvil/Savil is too strong a hint for any of us to disregard, don't you?

Zhai'helleva!

-- Alice --
ARisemberg-+AT+-eWorld.com



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:46:36 GMT
From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper)
To: mercedes-lackey
Subject: ADMIN: *bemused look*
Message-ID: <9511101146.AA11935-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>

Could any of you who are on Digest mode please tell me if you received a 
digest 216? If so, could I please have a copy for the archives, which seem not
to have it for some reason. (I have a sneaking suspicion that it may never
have existed, but ...)

Cheers

Mel.

------------------------------

Date:          Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:45:27 EET 
From: "Sanna Koulu" <SKOULU-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Not a companion but.....
Message-ID: <AA0BD92170-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi>

StarWolf wrote:
>
> >> The same way as shay'kreth'ashke, Companion and 
> >> Herald regard each other as the most important being on earth 
> >> (Velgarth?). I think the Companions think first of their Chosen and 
> >> _then_ of the Queen and Country and such. 
> 
> >Again, no - their duty comes first - otherwise you wouldn't have any
> >cases of repudiation. That doesn't stop their chosen being their most
> >important *person*, though...
> > -Jerry 

The repudiation question hasn't been solved yet. There's still the 
theory which was bounced around here, too, that Gala repudiated 
Lendel partly to protect him from having to feel her die. I think.
 
> Indeed.  I think we can probably dig up several quotes to this effect,
> but I thought it fairly clear that to a Companion, Valdemar comes first,
> above Herald, above Monarch, above self.  And since a Herald (by the
> fact that they *are* a herald) has the same opinion/attitude, there
> is no conflict.  A Herald or Companion MUST be absolutely willing,
> almost eager, to throw themselves before the enemy when it is the
> right (not always the only) recourse in order to help Valdemar and its
> people.

I remember only one quote about this: in Arrows somewhere it's stated 
that Heralds have two loves: their Companions and Valdemar, and there 
are few with hearts big enough for a third (lifebond or lovebond). 
Therefore I think that Valdemar isn't any more important than the 
Companion for the Herald, and I hate to think that Companions would 
be any less concerned with their Heralds. I think the bond has to be 
fully mutual.

Secondly, why I think Heralds are as important as Valdemar. To quote, 
Evil done in the name of good is still evil. Good done in the name of 
evil is still good. (Gwena in WFate) It's not that Valdemar is that 
important, it's what _Valdemar_represents_. Take nazi-Germany: it was 
supremely patriotic, and it was still evil.
 I think it's the same with Valdemar. If Companions (and Heralds) 
defended Valdemar but sacrificed their loves or innocent bystanders, 
they'd destroy everything Valdemar stands for. (That, I think, is also 
the reason Firecats disappeared from Karse when it was corrupt and 
patriotic.) The only acceptable sacrifice is self-sacrifice. 
 
 I agree, Heralds and Companions have to be ready to sacrifice 
themselves for Valdemar (and its ideals). The operative word here is 
"themselves" - yai se corthu: two are one. We don't have Companions 
without Heralds working for Valdemar (only one exception I recall: 
Florian, and that was a special situation), or Heralds without 
Companions (no exceptions (?)). Herald and Companion are one.

(There's one example that might be relevant: Lores whipping Ghost in 
MPromise. His Companion didn't do anything against him, even though 
it would have been in the best interests of Valdemar. (Tashir, after 
all, was about to cause a war) In this situation the Companion didn't 
do _anything_ against her Chosen - implying she was torn between her 
loyalty to Valdemar and Lores.)

Ok, I'll climb of my soap-box now...

                                -Seanna


------------------------------

Date:          Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:02:30 EET 
From: "Sanna Koulu" <SKOULU-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Companions (and others) mindspeaking..
Message-ID: <AA544109FC-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi>

In response to the whole thread which is too tangled to quote by now:

1) Most of the Mindspeakers we see bespeak unGifted characters are 
non-human. The exception is the Empire envoy at the end of WFury, who 
was said to project his words in Mindspeech strong enough even for 
the unGifted to hear.

2) I think this means that you need a really strong Gift to do it. 
Nowhere has it been stated that all Companions are as powerfully 
Gifted. I think it makes sense that Rolan just doesn't have 
Mindspeech strong enough to bespeak the unGifted.

3) Do we _ever_ see Rolan Mindspeak to Talia, even in a trance? I 
can't remember, and I don't have my books here.

4) In MPawn it's said that Mindspeech comes in two varieties, 
Thoughtsensing and Projecting. Thoughtsensing is probably the 
ability to "hear" and Projecting the ability to "speak", and they 
don't necessarily go together. Therefore Rolan might be good at 
Thoughtsensing, so he can "hear" Talia easily, but be unable to 
"speak" to her. Right?

5) I think I prefer the explanation (to why Companions can always 
speak to their Heralds at Choosing) that it's a magical, mystical 
moment, and allows for much deeper communication than ever again.
It doesn't seem to make sense for Companions not to speak to their 
Chosen just because of tradition, when they have broken most (? or a 
lot, anyway) of the "rules" already.

Opinions on any of this?

                                       -Seanna                         
      


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:43:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Rosario Holsen-Baker <rholsen-+AT+-sidwell.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: first SF/Fantasy
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.951110073313.26722A-100000-+AT+-gateway.us.sidwell.edu>

	All right, I might as well do this too. 

	I don't really remember my first fantasy experience. I do 
remember my mother used to read me the Greek myths (Gaia, Hermes and 
Apollo, Persephone and Hades) as bedtime stories. I also remember reading 
Tolkien's Rings in third or fourth grade. I think I started reading Misty 
in about sixth grade. I picked up _Magic's Pawn_ at my aunt's house, read 
the back and thought it looked nice, but didn't buy it then. I waited 
until later when I had a bookstore gift certificate for 30$ :)
	Been reading them ever since. I read McCaffrey's Dragon stuff, 
Misty (no s***!), Elizabeth Moon's Paks stuff, Ann Maxwell, Jo Clayton, 
Gael Baudino, Timothy Zhan, Piers Anthony, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Michael 
Crichton, Harry Harrison (Stainless Steel Rat!), David Eddings...I could 
go on and on...


|-------------------------------<<JAGUAR>>-------------------------------|
|             "So, so you think you can tell/Heaven from Hell            |
|     	      Blue skies from pain/Can you tell a green field	         | 
|     	        From a cold steel rail/A smile from a veil 		 |
|        	       Do you think you can tell?"  		         |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
			




------------------------------

Date:          Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:11:06 EDT
From: "Sandy Haas" <SANDRAH-+AT+-rackham.umich.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 212
Message-ID: <B24B626A84-+AT+-rackham.umich.edu>

> Anyway, to keep it short, I'm 19 and I'm a sophmore Computer Science major
> at Hofstra University in Long Island (that's right near NYC for those who
> don't know).  I live in Brooklyn though (but I don't have that stereotypical
> accent).
> 
> Mat 
> accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu
> "Do or do not; there is no try."
Who is also, obviously!!  a BIG Star Wars fan!!  Any idea where I can 
find those Dark Horse comics that fill the gaps between the movie and 
those new novels??  (PS--my brother in law gave me a movie poster 
from the 2nd (?) movie that was laying around in his brothers attic!! 
 The one I say at a used book store was over $100.00 :}  what a good 
brother in law!!  :}
Sandy--the sig-less

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:24:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Companions, bonded choosings, and mindspeaking
Message-ID: <9511101324.AA24129-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk>

> Hate to seem contrary here, but there are mentions of unbonded choosings in
> Misty's books, specifically, I believe, in the Vanyel trilogy.  If the new
> Monarch's Own Herald has been born and is of an age where training in the
> Collegium is necessary, the child will be Chosen by a Companion who does not
> bond closely with the Herald.  Then when the former Monarch's Own dies, the
> Monarch's Own Companion would choose the Herald - with bonding - presumably
> leaving the unbonded Companion free to choose another "plain old" Herald.
> 
> Also, if you recall King Randale's illness, Monarch's Own Herald Shavri did
> *not* have a bonded choosing with her companion.  She possessed only the
> healing gift (and so count *NOT* mindspeak her Companion), and knew she
> would quickly follow Randale when he eventually died.

Hmmm - As far as I can remember, the only time we ever see unbonded choosings
are potential Monarch's Owns; they don't get a bonded choosing because they
are likely to bond with the MOC when their predecessor dies. That tends to
suggest that you're unlikely to see more than one at a time
(barring twins :-) ). Yes, you do get unbonded choosings - but not enough
to be statistically significant :-), I suspect.

Or are we using different definitions for 'bonded'? I don't think you can
have an unbonded MO choosing - mindspeech is a seperate issue. (I'll have to
reread the bit with Shavri sometime).


-- 
   _|_
  / |    Jerry Cullingford      jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  \_|_                          jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
\__/    Hemel Hempstead, UK     jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com  (alternate)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:50:17 EST
From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: To Mindspeak or not to mindspeak...
Message-ID: <013.04535855.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com>

Heyla, alll..
 whenever i think about Talia and Rolan not being able to Speak to 
each other, i keep thinking of the part in one of the Arrows books 
where someone says 'persistant inablility may mask strong ability'. 
Maybe Rolan can't Speak to her 'cuz she has the Gift and is blocked 
somehow.
 Just a thought,
wyvern <please be gentle when you pick my  poor theory apart.... <G>>


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:58:27 EST
From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 212
Message-ID: <013.04536159.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com>

Heyla, maniacal ones, (and the non-Companions, too... <GGG, 
ducking>)

re: the bios: sorry, i've been off <comp probs> and didn't know 
they'd been posted... for anyone who cares to know, I just turned 16, 
love books and computers more than anything except my parakeets and 
paralette <a small parrot half the size of a parakeet. absolutely 
adorable and *very* friendly>. I dropped out of school this year 
<actually, I was homeschooling last year, but was too sick to do 
anything> because of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. It's the reason <over 
and above my insanity <G>> for my faulty memory. What was I saying? 
<GGG> The only other thing you should know is that you become friends 
or aquaintances <aka victims> of mine at your own risk. So be 
forewarned <hideous laugh> <GGG>

>Anyway, to keep it short, I'm 19 and I'm a sophmore Computer Science 
major
Hmmm, that's odd. I seem to keep meeting comp sci majors on the net. 
I wonder why...? <GGG>

<hugs and wyvs>
the lunatic wyvern


------------------------------

Date:          Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:11:55 EST
From: "Aphrael" <LBELZER-+AT+-sbu.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Di Tregarde
Message-ID: <MAILQUEUE-101.951110091155.768-+AT+-apps.sbu.edu>

>>snippage about Di as Role Model<<

First of all, if she existed, I think Di would be a little 
incredulous about being a role model, don't you think?  I can hear 
her now, "Good heavens!  Why me?"  :)

But I'd have to include her, along with Talia, Selenay, and Savil.  
Actually, now that I think about it, I'd have to say *Savil* is my 
number one role model (shut up, Ned).  :)

Lyn (who switched her alias to match the QO persona she's working on)

                                                          1 day

Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
There is no safe investment.  To love at all is to be vulnerable.  
Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be 
broken.  If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give 
your heart to no one, not even an animal.... The alternative to 
tragedy, or at least to the risk of tragedy, is damnation.  The 
only place outside Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from all the 
dangers and perturbations of love is Hell.  -from The Four Loves

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:20:35 EST
From: owl <BLGRUB-+AT+-main.rmwc.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Followers?
Message-ID: <FE5E1F1CA0-+AT+-main.rmwc.edu>

I am a Canadian, despite the fact I'm attending college in Virginia.  
I live in White Rock, British Columbia.
Owl,

"when Time lets slip that little perfect hour
--O take it!  for it will not come again"
Omar Khayyam

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:11:21 EST
From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: several things. (and a promise... ;)
Message-ID: <013.04536658.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com>

Heyla, fellow loons...

>I am 24 to answer the other question and working for a
>couple years before going back to school to try yet another major, 
been
>through hotel/restaurant management, business management, history, 
and now
>counceling.  With a minor in english. 
 Gee. You must not like school very much... <GGG> 

wyvern, who will probably be in school just as long, if she ever 
*gets* there... <G>


------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 219
*********************************