MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 224 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Van's Bardic Gift by Catherine A Murdoch 2) Re: the latest poll by Karieva-+AT+-aol.com 3) Re: the latest poll by Karieva-+AT+-aol.com 4) Re: the latest poll by Karieva-+AT+-aol.com 5) Van's Bardic Gift by "James T. Yardley" <73201.745-+AT+-compuserve.com> 6) Re: the latest poll by Adrienne York 7) Re: Van's Bardic Gift by Adrienne York 8) Re: the latest poll by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 9) Re: Van's Bardic Gift by Gyrfalcon 10) Re: Van's Bardic Gift by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 11) Van&Stefen&'Lendel...oh my! by Rosario Holsen-Baker 12) Re: Van's Bardic Gift by SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) 13) Re: the latest poll by SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) 14) Re: Van&Stefen&'Lendel...oh my! by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 15) bio by Wendy Howell 16) Re: the latest poll by SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) 17) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 222 by David 18) Van&Stefen&'Lendel...oh my! by SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) 19) Re: a thought... by "Sanna Koulu" 20) Re: If you could be..... by "Sanna Koulu" 21) Re: Van's Bardic Gift by "Sanna Koulu" 22) Re: the latest poll by "Sanna Koulu" 23) Re: more mindspeech... by Catherine Osborne 24) hi guys by Catherine Osborne 25) Re: Van's Bardic Gift by SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) 26) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 222 by SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) 27) Re: a thought... by SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) 28) Bios, etc. by Joan Ferguson 29) mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz by Heather Mina ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:36:57 +1100 (EST) From: Catherine A Murdoch To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van's Bardic Gift Message-ID: Maybe Van's Bardic gift never developed because he was never trained in its use. he was needed to much as a Herlad-Mage, and wouldn't a gift atrophy after a while if it wasn't being used? -- -- Catherine Murdoch | Internet: ulcam-+AT+-dewey.newcastle.edu.au Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 217147 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 "If man could be crossed with a cat, it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat." - Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 20:56:13 -0500 From: Karieva-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the latest poll Message-ID: <951112205613_104777868-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> >>ahh, so what you're saying is that misty's world is a parallel to ours, >>at least in regards to sexuality...meaning people are either gay or >>straight, and bisexuals are just people who >>'can't make up their mind'? I, also, DETEST the"it's just a phase" mindset, and the rough times Bi's get from both the straight and gay communities. However, since most people are seriously involved with only one 'significant other' at a time, is there a possiblity that some of her characters may be Bi, and just involved in an exclusive relationship with one sex or the other?? Karieva-+AT+-aol Allen's Law- Everything is more complicated than it appears to most people. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 20:56:45 -0500 From: Karieva-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the latest poll Message-ID: <951112205644_104778302-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> >>w/regard to the bisexual character thread, I am suprised no one has >>mentioned Kory and Eric >>Jean Sorry, but we're just not a fast as you are... Karieva-+AT+-aol Baldy's Law - Some of it plus the rest of it is all of it. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 20:56:17 -0500 From: Karieva-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the latest poll Message-ID: <951112205617_104777918-+AT+-mail06.mail.aol.com> >> about bisexual characters in Misty's writing - from what I can >>remember from the urban fantasy books with Kory (it's been a while >>though), wasn't there mention of a trio, with one character being caught >>deciding between a male and female? YES!! I forgot about that one!! It starts in Knight of Ghost and Shadows and continues through Summoned to Tourney... Beth thought she had to choose between Kory and Eric, but Eric fell in love with Kory, too so they ended up in a pretty stable three-way relationship. (I wish it was that easy to resolve triangles in real life, but it's not even when all parties involved are committed bisexuals...) Karieva-+AT+-aol Berra's Law- You can observe a lot by just watching. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Nov 95 21:30:18 EST From: "James T. Yardley" <73201.745-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing Subject: Van's Bardic Gift Message-ID: <951113023018_73201.745_JHE79-1-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> >>How come Van's bardic gift, which he clearly had blasted open with all the others, >>seems to disappear forever after? i don't think that he ever actually exercises it, but i'm pretty sure it *is* still there. i have some vague idea that it's even mentioned at some point, but i could be making that up. after all, he doesn't really have a need to use it, does he? there are a couple of inconsistencies here and there, though; this is really nitpicky, but 'Lendel is described as "a marginal Empath when he wasn't thinking about it"; and Vanyel has "as much Empathy as Tylendel had ever shown"; but then, later, i can't remember exactly where, Vanyel is described as "an Empath" - as in, a full Empath. hmmm... :> - meg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 21:46:51 -0500 (EST) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the latest poll Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Nov 1995 Karieva-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > >>ahh, so what you're saying is that misty's world is a parallel to ours, > >>at least in regards to sexuality...meaning people are either gay or > >>straight, and bisexuals are just people who > >>'can't make up their mind'? > > I, also, DETEST the"it's just a phase" mindset, and the rough times Bi's get > from both the straight and gay communities. > However, since most people are seriously involved with only one 'significant > other' at a time, is there a possiblity that some of her characters may be > Bi, and just involved in an exclusive relationship with one sex or the > other?? > Was I the only one who picked up on An'desha's ambivalence toward men as sex objects in SW, or was I just imagining things? It seemed to me as if Andesha was either bi or heterosexual, but having a relationship with a guy because that was the only person who was available to give him the sort of healing he needed. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "I'd like to believe that, but I'm fresh out of optimism." ;] ;] -Princess Jasmine ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 21:49:13 -0500 (EST) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van's Bardic Gift Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, Catherine A Murdoch wrote: > > Maybe Van's Bardic gift never developed because he was never trained in > its use. he was needed to much as a Herlad-Mage, and wouldn't a gift > atrophy after a while if it wasn't being used? > Where does it say Van lost his Bardic gift? I think the reason we never hear of it again is that we never see Van perform for an audience other than family again, and those were at times when he was tired or drained. Or that time in Lineas-Baires, but why would he have used the Bardic in that little tavern when he was still exhausted? ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "I'd like to believe that, but I'm fresh out of optimism." ;] ;] -Princess Jasmine ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 13:54:19 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the latest poll Message-ID: <9511130254.AA24153-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Karieva-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > >>ahh, so what you're saying is that misty's world is a parallel to ours, > >>at least in regards to sexuality...meaning people are either gay or > >>straight, and bisexuals are just people who > >>'can't make up their mind'? > > I, also, DETEST the"it's just a phase" mindset, and the rough times Bi's get > from both the straight and gay communities. > However, since most people are seriously involved with only one 'significant > other' at a time, is there a possiblity that some of her characters may be > Bi, and just involved in an exclusive relationship with one sex or the > other?? Hmm, what about Amberdrake, or indeed most of the kestra'cherns.. It's fairly strongly implied that most of them will be bisexual (or at least, willing to have sex with either gender - which may or may not be what people consider bisexual). As Karieva points out - the fact that he ends up with Winterhart doesn't make him non-bisexual. Kerry.. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 22:12:58 -0500 (EST) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van's Bardic Gift Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, James T. Yardley wrote: > >>How come Van's bardic gift, which he clearly had blasted open with all the > >>others, seems to disappear forever after? > > i don't think that he ever actually exercises it, but i'm pretty sure > it *is* still there. i have some vague idea that it's even mentioned at > some point, but i could be making that up. after all, he doesn't really > have a need to use it, does he? Yes, it's still there and active. But he doesn't use it unless he needs to. It's not trained either, IIRC. He does use it to disguise himself as a minstrel (Bard?) in Magic's Pawn. It's not as strong as Medren's (sp) and much weaker than his Mage gift, but it's still there. --Gyrfalcon Who doesn't feel like looking for the exact spot right now. =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 14:17:13 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van's Bardic Gift Message-ID: <9511130317.AA24222-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Meg wrote: (sorry, zapped the address) > this is really nitpicky, but 'Lendel is described as "a marginal Empath > when he wasn't thinking about it"; and Vanyel has "as much Empathy as > Tylendel had ever shown"; but then, later, i can't remember exactly where, > Vanyel is described as "an Empath" - as in, a full Empath. hmmm... :> > - meg Going off on a tangent (hey, gotta go with your strengths, right?), apparently being a strong empath wouldn't have made Jisa a bad Co-Monarch (I think I mean Consort but I'm muddling on the terminology). But at the same time somewhere it's said that Empathy makes for a weak Monarch. Before everyone jumps on me about her being MOH etc not ruler, note that if Treyvan (sp?) dies, as I understand it she becomes the Monarch.. Admittedly Jisa's special.. but even so... If we're playing lets spot the inconsistency Van notes early in TLHM that Jisa is "so very like him, right down to the mage potential." then when protecting relatives from the Adept triggering the 'blood' dagger on him, he's not sure whether Jisa has mage potential.. Ah well, picky picky I guess. Kerry. "That still doesn't explain the potato." - Mulder. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 22:48:16 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Van&Stefen&'Lendel...oh my! Message-ID: I am re-reading my LHM books as I write. I just got through the part where Van finally heals as much as he ever does from 'Lendel's death. I just realized something. Vanyel, thinking of 'Lendel: "He closed his eyes, expecting pain at the thought. There *was* pain, but not the debilitating agony of loss it had been." (p 310). Speculation: It was right about then that Stefen/'Lendel was born. Any takers? |-------------------------------<>-------------------------------| | "So, so you think you can tell/Heaven from Hell | | Blue skies from pain/Can you tell a green field | | From a cold steel rail/A smile from a veil | | Do you think you can tell?" | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 22:51:59 EST From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van's Bardic Gift Message-ID: <013.04688283.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com> Heyla, all... why do you say Van never used his Gift? He loved music. Just 'cuz he wasn't trained doesn't mean he couldn't *use* it... wyvern ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 22:43:23 EST From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the latest poll Message-ID: <013.04687625.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com> Irene, RE: dragonlance: Rastlin is also my fav. char. I stopped reading after the series about him and his twin. I never *could* find the 1st bk of that, but no matter... I'm glad he finally redeemed himself at the end... It always annoys me when my fav char's turn bad or die or something... wyvern ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 15:46:49 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van&Stefen&'Lendel...oh my! Message-ID: <9511130446.AA24814-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Jaguar wrote: > I am re-reading my LHM books as I write. I just got through the > part where Van finally heals as much as he ever does from 'Lendel's > death. I just realized something. > Vanyel, thinking of 'Lendel: "He closed his eyes, expecting pain > at the thought. There *was* pain, but not the debilitating agony of loss > it had been." (p 310). Speculation: It was right about then that > Stefen/'Lendel was born. Any takers? Sorry, nope.. :) Stef would have been 10 (plus/minus 5) at that time.. Somewhere early in Magic's Promise or late in Pawn it says that "for a while it had been ok and 'Lendel appeared in Van's dreams for a while, but now even that had gone." My money is on that as the time Stef was born/conceived. Besides, it fits the maths better. Van was in his late 30's when he was killed, Stef was 17/18 at the time, 'Lendel died when Van was roughly 16/17 so Stef had to be born within months or a year or two at most. :) Kerry. Crimson sweat and bloodstained tears Light is what the darkness fears. -- No idea.. sounds misty'ish / filk'ish - anyone know where this comes from? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 23:55:46 -0500 (EST) From: Wendy Howell To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: bio Message-ID: alright, here goes: i'm 15 and a freshperson here at simon's rock college (i'll explain that another time if anyone cares to hear it...). i plan to major in chem, go on to get a master's in it, get a decent job in a lab somewhere, and go back to get my doctorate when i have the time and the money to do that. but enough about academics...i enjoy reading (obviously), writing, creating stencils, surrealistic photography, playing classical guitar, playing soccer, and listening to music (metal, hard rock, industrial, tori amos, and classical...wide span, i know), among many other things. i began reading misty in ...hmmm, let me think...ninth grade, i believe. yes, that was it...i started with the lhm trilogy, went on to arrows, then winds, then read the black gryphon, and am now in the middle of storm warning... that's all i can think of now... wind to thy wings, winterhart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 22:35:20 EST From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the latest poll Message-ID: <013.04687021.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com> winterhart, > state of mind is muddled... or is that befuddled? oh, well... > >ahh, so what you're saying is that misty's world is a parallel to ours, >at least in regards to sexuality... Um, no... actually, our world, at least part of it, has at least a clue regarding bisexuality. I think in Misty's world bi's would try to pass as straight, or else would be seen as waffling or confused.... I mean, for all our knowledge, we can't even tell what causes *hetero*sexuality, and considering a rather larger amount of research has been done on it hmmm, maybe they *do* have bi's... we don't see much of the gay world, and I assume bi's would be found *somewhere* around there... wyvern the confused ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:11:19 GMT From: David To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 222 Message-ID: > ... As for white horses with blue eyes.... um, hair dye > and giant contacts? On Dune, they _just_ painted the blue eyes in! (Although I wasn't quite sure how effective that was) Nowadays, if they can colourise old black and white movies, they should be able to "white and blue" in a colour film, shouldn't they? David. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 04:40:40 EST From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Van&Stefen&'Lendel...oh my! Message-ID: <013.04699030.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com> Jaguar, re: when 'Lendel was re-born: You know, you may be right... but he says in M's promise that there were times during the 1st 2 years when he could almost *feel* lendel watching and guarding him... maybe that was what was happening... wyvern ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:14:56 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: a thought... Message-ID: Shadow-Lover wrote: > > > > Guys, and Gals, and Neuters, and Hermaphrodites, and Transgendered > >Persons, and Anything Between/Anything Else... >covers everything... >, > > I just realized: Van had that first Foresight flash of his death > >*before* his channels were blasted open. So, do you think that a > >deity had a hand in the dream or...? > > > >wyvern the catagorical lunatic > > > > > Savil said when she tested him at Forst Reach, that Van had gift > potential... I think that the foresight dreams were just the potential > rearing its head... If you remember, he also had a foresight dream > before Tylendel came to his bed... My favorite theory is still that it's the 'bonding with Lendel that caused the Foresight dreams (possibly because Lifebonding, like Companion-bonding, boosts the Gifts? And even opens the Channels - Talia, for example, only had her Gift wake up after she'd been Chosen, no?). Wyvern pointed out that Vanyel's dreams of Lendel were just wishful thinking. - But the dreams of Lendel were mixed in with the Foresight dreams of dying. Maybe the Lifebond was bound up with Vanyel's death. Remember Moondance in MPawn talking about how, if he knew his bond with Starwind would cause his death, he'd still choose it? I think that was a definite hint that that was how it was with Vanyel. It seems just the kind of thing the Tayledras would do; and besides, Moondance also pointed out that he and Van had a lot in common. Whaddya think? Am I onto something here or just chasing tree-hares? -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:34:50 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: If you could be..... Message-ID: I'd be Savil. Definitely. (And come on, stop sniggering or I'll, well, do something you'll regret. So there. ) Nah, strike that, I'd _like_ to be Savil, but I'm not that confident. When I was younger I really adored Talia - I really would want to be that patient and emphatic...(not my stronger points, no) Oh well. I guess I'm just me... -Seanna, who gets an inferiority complex comparing herself to Heralds ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:31:07 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van's Bardic Gift Message-ID: Wyvern wrote: > Heyla, all... > why do you say Van never used his Gift? He loved music. Just 'cuz he > wasn't trained doesn't mean he couldn't *use* it... I think Vanyel doesn't have the Bardic Gift, and Misty screwed up with the reference in MPawn. The books _never_ again (I could be wrong) even refer to Vanyel having the Gift, whereas he _does_ use Fetching, Fire-starting, the Mage Gift, Empathy, Mindspeech and Foresight (not sure about Farsight, though that might be included when they're creating the Web) and even Healing. And the Bardic Gift _would_ have been useful, even if not crucial; didn't Vanyel worry about the Herald-Mages vs. "plain Heralds" question (MPromise) - which was finally solved by Stefen (using, among other things, the Gift). There are also numerous council meetings in which it might be useful - and Herald ethics don't forbid all manipulation. (Vanyel's lecture to Medren on the ethics of Gift use). I think if Van had it he'd use it. Also I just thought of the scene in MPromise when Vanyel is talking with Jervis about Medren - doesn't he say straight out that he "never had the gift"? He was good enough at performance to qualify, and creativity seems less important (it's not referred to as often as the two others), so I think he's talking of the Bardic Gift. Besides, about training: Vanyel obviously was trained in using all his other Gifts, even Healing which was a much lesser Gift for him than the Bardic. So why wouldn't they teach him to use that too? (It's been stated that Healing requires knowledge, and in MPrice Van uses it to Heal himself, powering it with his Mage Gift. I think. Therefore he has to have had training.) OTOH, the Bardic Gift doesn't seem to require training - Talia uses it before having had _any_ Gift training. Sorry for the length - it's mostly because I was so depressed at Vanyel not having the Bardic Gift, I've even _thought_ about it (and now that's a rare thing for me! ) -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:47:59 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the latest poll Message-ID: Kerry wrote: (Snip!) > > Karieva-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > > > > I, also, DETEST the"it's just a phase" mindset, and the rough times Bi's get > > from both the straight and gay communities. > > However, since most people are seriously involved with only one 'significant > > other' at a time, is there a possiblity that some of her characters may be > > Bi, and just involved in an exclusive relationship with one sex or the > > other?? > > Hmm, what about Amberdrake, or indeed most of the kestra'cherns.. > It's fairly strongly implied that most of them will be bisexual (or at > least, willing to have sex with either gender - which may or may not be > what people consider bisexual). I wouldn't really consider that bisexual. A lot of gay women are married at some point in their lives, and still define themselves as lesbians. I think bisexual should mean "capable of having erotic/ romantic desire for people of either sex". Yes, it's a very broad definition, but I think most people could fall in love/lust with someone of their own/opposite sex, given the right someone and no anti- gay brain-washing. > As Karieva points out - the fact that he ends up with Winterhart doesn't > make him non-bisexual. I agree on this. (though I don't think Amberdrake shows any desire for any man?) Btw, what do you think of the Tayledras concepts of sexuality? Misty doesn't really tell us anything of them, but there's the word shay'a'chern, meaning "one whose lover is like self" (Note the present tense). I think this could mean that people are shay'a'chern if they _right then_ have a lover of the same sex, and would only be "straight" (I wonder what the Tayledras term for that is?) if they had an opposite- sex lover at the moment. The rest of the time they wouldn't be either, just themselves. In such an environment, there wouldn't be any "bisexuality", unless someone had two lovers of different sexes at generally the same time. Does that sound too spaced? -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 07:55:11 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: more mindspeech... Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Heather Mina wrote: > But Rolan *does* mindspeak both Dirk and Elspeth, and it is hinted that he > mindspeaks Elspeth's Companion from the other side of the world! This is > why I doubt the mindspeech problem has anything to do with Rolan himself. Precisely. > >Re: MO companion purposely not mindspeaking... Well, what if its the > >_herald_ and not the companion that prevents the mindspeaking? I think > >that to establish the bond in the first place, it has to be on all > >levels, so the companion is able to mind speak his/her herald for that > >one time. But since it's talia who can't mindspeak, maybe its that she > >can't "hear". Argh. IT HAS BEEN STATED FLAT OUT AND DEMONSTRATED THAT A COMPANION -ANY COMPANION!- CAN MINDSPEAK ANYONE S/HE DAMN WELL PLEASES. (Fit of exasperation off.) If Rolan pleases he can speak to Talia and hear her thoughts. Her personal gifts have nothing to do with it; companions can speak to people with *no* gifts *at all* and hear their thoughts. Ex: Yfandes and Stefen. Therefore, it must be Rolan's choice not to do so. > are all (with the exception of Warrl, who *does* have the ability to use > vocal speech - note the kyree colony in the Vanyel books and the ones who > are of Clan k'Leshya) postulated as spirits of deceased himan beings - who > formerly used vocal speech. Are you sure that any kyree speak aloud? I don't remember this. Examples of specific instances, please... > determined by language. If I am mindspeaking German words at you, and you > don't know German, how will you understand me? Universal translator? ;) > it came up once that Shavri did not have a bonded choosing. She was Chosen Hmmmm. I was under the impression that Shavri had a bonded choosing, she just had a weaker bond with Taver than most Heralds have. I\/ Catherine Osborne "After great pain, I\/ Sundancer a formal feeling comes." I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu --Emily Dickinson I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:33:37 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes lackey list Subject: hi guys Message-ID: *I* would be Vanyel's best friend ;) You see, I have this tendency to write myself into stories, not while I'm reading them but in bed at night when I can't fall asleep. I almost never identify myself as an already-written character, just insert myself (in male or female form) into a story. I do this especially with The Dark is Rising series, with Alexander the Great (those of you who know of my obsession: you *don't* want to know who. And I wouldn't tell you if you did ;), and with Vanyel stories. So if I went to Velgarth, I would be a Herald about Van/Lendel's age. I would be 'Lendel's yearmate (female, btw, in this case) and best friend in Haven around his own age. Post-lifebonding I would develop a reasonably friendly relationship with Van; post-'Lendel's-death, become a really close friend. From this point, I proceed to insert myself into most episodes of LHM. (No, *not* the ones where Stef and Van are...you know... ;) Also, I add scenes between myself and other characters. Sometimes I even act them out (talking to thin air, naturally. "Heralds. Just sitting around *thinkin'* at each other!" ;) This is a main reason why I think Talia perfectly capable of imagining herself into the Van story in the beginning of AotQ. Gotta go to class, bye for now, I\/ Catherine Osborne "After great pain, I\/ Sundancer a formal feeling comes." I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu --Emily Dickinson I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:56:15 EST From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van's Bardic Gift Message-ID: <013.04705398.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com> Senna, re: van not using bardic gift: we don't know he doesn't. Misty never says one way or the other. I'd imagine, tho, that it'd be very painful, tied up w/memories of 'lendel. Re: van saying he 'never had the gift': Wasn't that where he was talking to medren? I think he was referring to before that whole 'lendel incident, when he wanted to be a bard. wyvern ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:50:19 EST From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 222 Message-ID: <013.04705174.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com> Heyla, fellow... what *are* you, anyway? You may just be *saying* you're human. I can't see you, so how do i know? Remember, just 'cuz you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you... >Nowadays, if they can colourise old black and white movies, >they should be able to "white and blue" in a colour film, >shouldn't they? Actually, computer generated imaging would prob be easier. That's what they did in Casper, and Toy Story , and the Mask and... I think you get the picture wyvern, off to look for telephone taps and hidded cameras ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:52:42 EST From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: a thought... Message-ID: <013.04705264.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com> Heyla, fellow-people > with-too-much-time-on-your- hands... Wyvern pointed out that Vanyel's dreams of Lendel were just wishful thinking. - But the dreams of Lendel were mixed in with the Foresight dreams of dying. Maybe the Lifebond was bound up with Vanyel's death. Remember Moondance in MPawn talking about how, if he knew his bond with Starwind would cause his death, he'd still choose it? I think that was a definite hint that that was how it was with Vanyel. It seems just the kind of thing the Tayledras would do; and besides, Moondance also pointed out that he and Van had a lot in common. forgive me, but my mind is mush. Could you expain that? wyvern, feeling very dumb lately ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 11:22:26 -0500 From: Joan Ferguson To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Bios, etc. Message-ID: <199511131622.LAA03847-+AT+-elmer.Harvard.EDU> Well, let' see ... I'm surviving my torturous 30th year ... (see below). I'm a librarian at Harvard University, originally from northern New Jersey, went to college at Mount Holyoke in western Mass. and ended up in Boston sorta by default (library school) :-) I first read Misty in 1988 or so ... the 13 year old daughter of my housemate at the time was horse-crazy (so was I at 13! I had an 18yr old Morgan horse at the time ... bliss), and picked up Arrows of the Queen because it was about horses ... she let me borrow it, and the next day I went to the local bookstore and bought *every* Misty book I could find. :-) The rest is history :-) I've been reading SF/F for as long as I can remember. Lifebonds? Well, until recently I believed I was lifebonded ... my partner and I have been together almost 10 years; we met in college as next-door neighbors. I guess part of turning 30 made me stop and think and reconsider all the of the things in my life. So, I'm feeling anguished (best definition I can come up with) and confused and my relationship is in a bit of turmoil at the moment, but I still love her dearly. *sigh* Life is so confusing!!! Sorry to be such a bummer, but being an adult really sucks sometimes ... (oh, by the way, for the survey person - count me as bisexual) Innocent? Forget it!!! :-} No way, not after college!! 15?! Not again in a million years ... once was more than enough! You couldn't *pay* me enough to go back to high school!!! (Even though I had a pretty good experience ... ) Joan (the anguished one) joan_ferguson-+AT+-harvard.edu Harvard University Library Preservation Office "Instead of loving your enemies,treat your friends a little better." -Edgar Watson Howe (1853-1937) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 11:32:00 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz Message-ID: <9511131633.AA05632-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Alice writes... >Wasn't there a passage somewhere (Skif speaking?) where it says all heralds >have to have some mindspeaking, but in some it is so little that nothing >beyond that first choosing by the companion happens? Even Talia has some >mindspeaking, BTW. When she was having trouble being trained before they >knew she had the empathy gift, she was being trained as a mindspeaker. > Something was happening in that pre-empathy training; it just wasn't much. Talis was being trained as a mindspeaker because the Heralds of her time (unlike the Heralds of Vanyel's time) had no idea that empathy could exist outside of the healing gifts. There were remarks made that because Healers were so badly needed in Valdemar, Companions just did not Choose those with healing gifts to be Heralds. Therefore, nobody even suspected that Talia would have empathy as a Gift, and assumed that she was a mindspeaker. However, Talia had absolutely no success as a mindspeaker. She had rudimentary shielding capabilities, which all Heralds should be able to do, but not mindspeaking. Her problem came when Ylsa instructed her to block out all emotions. When Talia blocked out all emotions, she could not hear anything! But I don't remember anything about all Heralds having mindspeaking, just that all Heralds have some form of a Gift, whether it be in the communications family (mindspeaking and mindhearing), the fetching family (including firestarting), or the healing family (including empathy). >Also, there is mention somewhere (?) that receiving and sending mindspeach >are two distinct gifts -- one does not necessarily go with the other, and >they are definitely not always equal. This was my point about Talia being unable to hear mindspeech. It is similar to someone having a loud speaking voice, but being deaf as a post! Alice also writes about Companions... >Does the fact that the MOC is always grove-born help shed any light on the >question of there being one throughout time? Seems to me, though as far as I >know there is nothing definitive in the books about it, that that's a pretty >strong indication that they're different each time. How do you all feel >about it? Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!!! Who said anything about there being only *one* Monarch's Own Companion through time? The Monarch's Own Companion is Grove-born, but then grows old and dies, just like other Companions do. But even though the MOC grieves when his Herald dies (as Rolan assuredly grieved for Talamir), the MOC is required to choose another Monarch's Own Herald. Shadow-Lover writes... >> I agree with everything... Bout the blue eyes tho... Has anyone >> noticed that (with the exception of the Star-Eyed) all the supernatural >> beings have the same blue eyes... Remember that magic bleaches pigments, including skin color, hair color, and eyes. The next step after blue would be silver. But blue is regularly associated with the sky, and I would bet that supernatural beings have blue eyes because this associates them with the heavens (and thus, being higher than us mere mortals ). >Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:46:36 GMT >From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) >To: mercedes-lackey >Subject: ADMIN: *bemused look* >Message-ID: <9511101146.AA11935-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> > >Could any of you who are on Digest mode please tell me if you received a >digest 216? If so, could I please have a copy for the archives, which seem not >to have it for some reason. (I have a sneaking suspicion that it may never >have existed, but ...) I have deleted it, but I got one that said "Partial Digest 216", which was followed by a full Digest 217. However, 217 included all the messages that were in 216 exactly, and then some more. So for the archives, I wouldn't worry about it. Seanna's points on mindspeaking... >In response to the whole thread which is too tangled to quote by now: > >1) Most of the Mindspeakers we see bespeak unGifted characters are >non-human. The exception is the Empire envoy at the end of WFury, who >was said to project his words in Mindspeech strong enough even for >the unGifted to hear. Umm, who exactly spoke to ungifted characters? The examples I have found follow, but we never *KNOW* about the gifted status of the characters. Warrl -> Tarma: how do we know that Tarma is not at least a little bit mindgifted? Especially with her close she'enedra bond to Kethry and her tight-knit bond with the goddess. Warrl -> Jadus: again, how do we know that Jadus is not gifted? If he had lived in Valdemar, he surely would have been Chosen!!! Need -> Kethry (a mage - doesn't count; we know she can speak) Need -> Elspeth and Skif (well, they're gifted!!!) Need -> Kyara (she has the mage-gift or wouldn't be attractive to Falconsbane; besides, she talks back!) If anyone can think of any others please let me know. I would bet that there is no mention of the characters being mind-deaf! Also, I think that the description of the Empire envoy's abilities are just an expression. Surely you've heard the expression about a person yelling so loudly that the deaf (or the dead) could hear it ?!? >2) I think this means that you need a really strong Gift to do it. >Nowhere has it been stated that all Companions are as powerfully >Gifted. I think it makes sense that Rolan just doesn't have >Mindspeech strong enough to bespeak the unGifted. I don't think that all the Companions have the same gifts. However, since they were provided to the Monarch of Valdemar by some deity/ies, I would guess that the Companions all have some rudimentary level of skill with their gifts, or they would not be able to form the Companion-Herald bond or ably protect Valdemar. >3) Do we _ever_ see Rolan Mindspeak to Talia, even in a trance? I >can't remember, and I don't have my books here. Nope. I remain positive that Talia cannot mind**hear**. No reflection on Rolan's abilities at all! >4) In MPawn it's said that Mindspeech comes in two varieties, >Thoughtsensing and Projecting. Thoughtsensing is probably the >ability to "hear" and Projecting the ability to "speak", and they >don't necessarily go together. Therefore Rolan might be good at >Thoughtsensing, so he can "hear" Talia easily, but be unable to >"speak" to her. Right? Talia can't mindspeak, only project emotions. And Rolan can and does mindspeak Elspeth and Skif, so we know he can project speech. >5) I think I prefer the explanation (to why Companions can always >speak to their Heralds at Choosing) that it's a magical, mystical >moment, and allows for much deeper communication than ever again. >It doesn't seem to make sense for Companions not to speak to their >Chosen just because of tradition, when they have broken most (? or a >lot, anyway) of the "rules" already. I think the mindspeech between Companion and Chosen at that moment is akin to a religious ceremony. Remember that some god(ess) made a gift of Companions to Baron Valdemar to help him protect his newly formed country. Therefore, a Companion is a sort of "angel" (to use a Judeo-Christian metaphor), and the bonding with the Herald is a very spiritual, magical moment with heavy religious significance. Therefore, I would hazard a guess that the speech at this moment is a formula, which must be recited for the Choosing to take place; this would make it the rule. wyvern prepares to be picked apart... > whenever i think about Talia and Rolan not being able to Speak to >each other, i keep thinking of the part in one of the Arrows books >where someone says 'persistant inablility may mask strong ability'. >Maybe Rolan can't Speak to her 'cuz she has the Gift and is blocked >somehow. Talia's gift is in the healing family of gifts, rather than in the communications family of gifts. She has a very VERY strong gift of projective and sensitive empathy. This is the strong ability which was masked by her ability to hear of speak mind-to-mind. Okay, now you guys can bash MY ideas some more... Heather &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& && I have never let my schooling && && interfere with my education. && &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Heather L. Mina hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 224 *********************************