MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 225 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 220 by Heather Mina 2) more on mindspeaking, companions, and bonds by Heather Mina 3) by Heather Mina 4) bonds and mindspeech by Heather Mina 5) Re: bio by Mat Timmerman 6) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 212 by Mat Timmerman 7) Re: mindspeaking and the gods by Jennifer Broekman 8) Re: more mindspeech... by Jennifer Broekman 9) Re: Twin bonds and other things by Jennifer Broekman 10) Innocence... by ajc6-+AT+-ukc.ac.uk 11) Re: If you could be..... by Mat Timmerman 12) Re: the latest poll by Mat Timmerman 13) Re: the latest poll by Mat Timmerman 14) Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz by Jennifer Broekman 15) bardic gift and other threads by Heather Mina ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 12:05:10 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 220 Message-ID: <9511131706.AA06479-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Mat contributes... >No, actually that's wrong. I'm rereading AotQ now, so I happen to have >it with me. From Talia's ever informative Orientation class, we hear >Davan say, > > "Well, he waited till Midsummer's Day; he went out into the > grove that stands in the middle of what we call Companion's Field > now, and he asked every god he'd ever heard of to helpo him. > An' Mama told me in the version she'd read, it said he cast a > special spell, too, 'cause remember, he was a magician -- a > *real* magician, not just Gifted." > >So it wasn't a specific deity, it was lots of them. This may be the real >reason why Valdemar doesn't seem to have a specific god/ess watching over it. >It may be that Valdemar is sort of a common area for the gods. No one is >preeminent, in Valdemar, they are all equal. I bow to your superior knowledge (I am doing all this without by books at hand, and so cannot exactly quote details...). And I apologize for my incorrect assertions... >Also, when Talia asks about the other two Gift classes, Ylsa says, > > "Seeing's probably the closest; emotions are powerful attractants > for the mind's eye. In fact, you have more than a touch of that > particular Gift yourself. I've told you that no one ever has > *just* one Gift with no hint of the others, haven't I? You've > got enough thought-sensing and Sight to possibly be useful in > an emergency -- maybe just a hint of Healing as well." Okay, so maybe Talia has a hint. But if I can only hear things in the range of 1/4 to 1/2 of a decibel, then my (audible) hearing might as well not exist. What do you think? > >>Besides, why would Rolan not be allowed to mindspeak Talia? She is, after >>all, his Chosen. We know that Savil and her Companion mindspeak, that >>Vanyel and Yfandes mindspeak, that Kris and Tantris mindspeak. PLUS, in >>Arrow's Fall, Rolan mindspeaks Elspeth and Dirk when he tries to rescue >>Talia from Ancar. >> >Yes, but all of those others are MindSpeakers. With Elspeth and Dirk, >it revealed that Companions could speak to those not their Chosen, >but it doesn't reaveal that they can speak to non-MindSpeakers. Also, >they would be more ready to believe "impossible" feat from Rolan, >since he's Grove-born. That's what that whole conversation on the way >to the border about Companion intervention was leading to. I think that you can mindspeak to anyone you want. The question is, can they hear you? We know that Companions don't generally speak to anyone but their Chosen, but I can see a Companion trying desperately to help his Chosen, but not finding any receptive minds in the area... (I'm not saying that this happened in any of Misty's books, but can you imagine it happening?) Thanks, Mat, for digging into the books for me! And Mat writes again... >Yes, remember the empahsis in LHM on the two types of Mindspeech. They >constantly say things like, "his Mindspeech was even of both types" (that's >from memory of Savil's description of Vanyel's Gifts). They often mention >that Mindspeech has two types -- projective and receiving. We don't >really see any mindspeakers who only have one type. One exception could >be Neave, from Talia's Gift class. He was the one who kept projecting >his nightmares of abuse. They call him a projective, but never mention if >he can also receive. This is my point, whenever people bring up supposed cases of mindspeech with the ungifted. How do we know that they (Tarma, Jadus, etc) ado not have receiving mindspeech? Thanks for listening... Mat writes yet again... >What I always wondered was _why_ Savil would make him break it. Was it >just because of the feud? If so, politics aren't really a good enough >reason to break a twin bond. If not, why? Savil couldn't know that >Staven would be killed and drive 'Lendel mad. The problem that Savil foresaw was that Tylendel's family was ebroiled in the political conflict with whats-his-name. Tylendel's duty as a Herald was to let go of these petty family feuds and work only for the good of the country. So what happens when the feud gets out of hand and Tylended just rushes off to his family's estate to save them, instead of performing his assigned duty? Savil did not foresee what happened (although foggy foresight may have pushed her into asking him to loosen up the bond a bit, if not break it), but definitely could see 'Lendel running off home to save his twin if anything happened. Staci contributes a thought on being Chosen... >The return of the question.... Just started rereading Arrows of the Queen. >Here is a quote that may answer the question...or make more. > >"---but if you thought your Comanion spoke to you when he Chose you, you >were right. He did. No matter if you never have more than a touch of a >Gift, your Companion will always speak to you in your heart at that moment >-- even if he never does so again. It wasn't something you dreamed. And if >you have the right Gift, one day you'll learn to speak back." -- Teren, at >the first day of orientation. Hmmm... the heart is entirely different from the mind. Wouldn't you agree? Wordsmith of Irymar: > I should probably apologize before I begin, since I haven't been >reading the list-postings quite so closely as I should, so some of this >may not be new: > Somewhere in the LHM trilogy, I recall Savil saying that there >are two different kinds of Mindspeech, one for person to person, and the >other for groups (Broadsending? something like that, I think). But I >don't think that Misty ever flat out says that the more general >Mindspeech can only be "heard" by other Mindspeakers. Maybe all the >Companions have Broadsending (thus Yfandes, Sayvil, and, to rescue Talia, >Rolan), but still can't use person-to-person (please, someone find the >term I'm lookig for here) Mindspeech. I think that the difference between private and group mindspeaking has to do with whether you're whispering or yelling. If you are "Mind-yelling" (or broadcasting a help message, for example), then any receptive minds in the area should hear you. But if you are talking quietly to another with mindspeech, then you should not be overheard. (But remember that Heralds have very strict ethical standards about this - remember that Kerowyn could not help but overhear thoughts around her). More ideas to toss around, maybe? &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& && I have never let my schooling && && interfere with my education. && &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Heather L. Mina hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 12:05:22 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: more on mindspeaking, companions, and bonds Message-ID: <9511131706.AA06515-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Anne writes... >Have to drag my books out- but I dstinctly remember that she CAN hear Rolan >when deep in trance- what I take this to mean (and it is my thought only >-chuckle-) is that if you are NOT a mindspeaker, you have a sort of a >blockage- meaning the Companion can FORCE you to hear them- thier power being >so great in that GIft, but it is very tiring, and probably not without other >cost. Good point. I like the idea... >Well, we didn't know he DIDN'T have a gift either- it might be it was a >latent Gift, and being Chosen boosted it to allow it to work- he was so >stunned by getting Chosen and meeting Selenay that I don't think it >registered he was talking to a horse . . -grin- THanks - I've been trying to point out that we never know whether someone is gifted or not. >Now that the course is over- I'm getting off the digest so I can come play >more often once more! -g- I tried, but it just won't work. AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!! (Anyway, that's why I write these really obnoxious replies. I can't keep straight all the separate messages in a digest!) Wyvern: >Just a quick thought: >re: the number of lifebonded Heralds: i've always thought that people >w/one bond might have a propensity for other types. Lendel is an >extreme case: twin, Companion, and life-bond. Sort of like "addictive personalities", huh? >> whenever i think about Talia and Rolan not being able to Speak to >>each other, i keep thinking of the part in one of the Arrows books >>where someone says 'persistant inablility may mask strong ability'. >>Maybe Rolan can't Speak to her 'cuz she has the Gift and is blocked >>somehow. >> Just a thought, >>wyvern > >> >> > Rolan has mindspoke with Talia. In Arrows of the Queen, Rolan >spoke to >Talia when he choose her! > Amberdrake There's been conversation about this, too... (Since I've already put in my 2 cents, and my pockets are now empty of even pennies... Thank GOD that Friday is payday!!!) > Guys, and Gals, and Neuters, and Hermaphrodites, and Transgendered >Persons, and Anything Between/Anything Else... covers everything... >, > I just realized: Van had that first Foresight flash of his death >*before* his channels were blasted open. So, do you think that a >deity had a hand in the dream or...? > >wyvern the catagorical lunatic To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Message-ID: <9511131736.AA07976-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> >My question would be "how do you handle mind-speech in a movie?" It >would look really strage for them to all sit and stare at each other >while voices spread around the room in argument... Also, where are you >going to find white horses with blue eyes? =o) > > - Shadow-Lover > >Who is being *way* to practical at the moment... You movie-nerd!!! I think the only way they could do it would be to play some mystical sound-effect while they do a voice-over. But mindspeech could be very effective while they're riding around Companion-back. Unfortunately, I would hate for the beautiful world I have constructed in my mind to be compromised by the mundane viewpoint of a movie camera. >Amberdrake, > re: Rolan Speaking to Talia at Choosing: Yes, but I think that is a >special moment. I have a feeling deities or higher powers have a >hand in it, 'cuz *anyone*, even if they have no Mindspeech, will hear >their Companion at that moment. >wyvern I sort of disagree. I think of the moment of Choosing as sort of an ordination (read Kurtz's Deryni series for a tase of the magical, mystical side of religion) into the order of Heralds. The act of Choosing has definite religious significance (the Companions being sent by the god(esse)s to help Baron Valdemar), whether an actual god(ess) is present at the moment or not. >> What I always wondered was _why_ Savil would make him break it. Was it >> just because of the feud? If so, politics aren't really a good enough >> reason to break a twin bond. If not, why? Savil couldn't know that >> Staven would be killed and drive 'Lendel mad. > >>From memory (I'm at Uni and _didn't bring my books for the first term), I >think that the link would go through normal (mage) shields. > >It would have been a danger if, when he was in the workroom, something >happened to Staven and it distracted him. > >That's a good enough reason for someone as careful as Savil to get him >either to break it himself or shield him from it. > >David. Plus, what happens if Tylended is out riding circuit and Staven gets into trouble back at the estate? 'Lendel feels it over the bond and immediately rushes to rescue his twin? Ack - what a horrible situation to be placed in! That's it for now... Sunny skies to you all! (From Heather in Virginia Beach where clouds are forming over us right now) &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& && I have never let my schooling && && interfere with my education. && &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Heather L. Mina hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 12:35:16 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: bonds and mindspeech Message-ID: <9511131736.AA07983-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> On the thread of Talia and Rolan mindspeaking, Stacy Hunt DuVall writes... > > Perhaps a way to explain why Talia and Rolan haven't truly >"mindspoken" since her choosing is that the story of the people hanging >around Valdemar has evolved a bit since the Arrow's trilogy. I know that >it's been 8 or 9 years since I first read AotQ. At first, maybe Misty never >intended for non-gifted people to be able to hear mindspeakers. It was >neccessary for the story for Talia to be "deaf" to mindspeech. Now, >however, books and characters later, she needs for people like Karal to be >able to hear Companions. Since Talia is no longer a main character, its not >really an issue in recent books. So that's how I explain the apparent >discrepancy. Sigh...I miss Talia and Dirk :-(. Good point about the evolution of the world of Velgarth. My problem is that people (and non-humans) keep running around mindspeaking with other people (and non-humans), and we never know whether certain people (and non-humans) have the Gifts or not. To me, mindspeaking is becoming sort of like "warp speed" and "beam me up". Zoe writes... > 3)re: Only when he chose her, and when she fell into the Terilee >River, she yelled :Rolan!: in this way. Is there really a difference to you between saying "Mommy" and the feeling that saying "Mommy" give you? My point is that we associate feelings (warm and fuzzy or sharp and pointy) with the names of people we know, so that the actual name (in letters) becomes secondary. So do we know that she really did yell :Rolan!:, or just projected very strongly to him in a way that is best summed up as his name? > 5)re: In MPrice, Yfandes tells Stefen that all Companions can >mindspeak anyone, they choose not to most of the time. It was necessary >for her to mindspeak Stefen, and Vanyel had no problem speaking back, but >with Talia, Rolan has no need to speak to her, their bond and her empathy >works well enough. Hope it helps. I think, again, that Talia's mindspeaking (or, more properly, mindhearing) gift is just not strong enough for them to use speech. But the empathic bond surely communicates well between them, doesn't it? Alice writes... >One of the recent deluge of postings reminded me of an inconsistency that's >always bugged me. How come Van's bardic gift, which he clearly had blasted >open with all the others, seems to disappear forever after? Am I just >missing something? :::knocking on hard head::: Wouldn't be the first time! >:-) Thanks! I just made a comment about this earlier this morning. You'd think that Vanyel would take advantage of his Brdic Gift a little more, especially while he was in training! &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& && I have never let my schooling && && interfere with my education. && &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Heather L. Mina hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:58:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: bio Message-ID: <01HXLFPKH0RY94E1EE-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: "Meg" <73201.745-+AT+-compuserve.com> > ..major snippage throughout... > i'veneverreadanythingbyPiersAnthony. so... about two years ago No, no, *NO* that's a very *GOOD* thing! I didn't fully break free until somewhere around the sixteenth or so Xanth book > anyway, soon after that i found "magic's pawn" in the >library and read it in spite of the silly-sounding and very inaccurate >description on the back (anyone else notice that?) It's scary, but that blurb is what started me on Misty. It sounded interesting at the time, but now I laugh at it. There are soooo many mistakes in it. Like having Vanyel go to Savil _because_ of his Mage-Gift, and confusing Tayledras and Shin'a'in. Right now I'm attempting to persuade my ultra-conservative roomate to read Magic's Pawn. He's sort of a fascist and a homophobe, so I'm _really_ trying to turn him around. Mat -- wish me luck! accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu "Do or do not; there is no try." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:44:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 212 Message-ID: <01HXLFEDMV8294E1EE-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Sandy Haas > >> Anyway, to keep it short, I'm 19 and I'm a sophmore Computer Science major >> at Hofstra University in Long Island (that's right near NYC for those who >> don't know). I live in Brooklyn though (but I don't have that stereotypical >> accent). >> >> Mat >> accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu >> "Do or do not; there is no try." >Who is also, obviously!! a BIG Star Wars fan!! Well, on one of my other lists (I'm on four!), there's sort of a SW trend going. It seems that almost everyone has a SW quote in their sig, so I had to too. :) -- I went home this weekend, and when I logged in this morning, I had 409 messages! I even had to skip my first class to take care of it so my account didn't crash. Sigh, VAX is the source of all evil.) Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu "Do or do not; there is no try." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:18:47 -0500 (EST) From: Jennifer Broekman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mindspeaking and the gods Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Heather Mina wrote: > Now, we know from Arrows of the Queen that Baron Valdemar prayed to a very > specific deity (of course, I don't have my copy with me at work, so I don't > know which one) for help in his new country. The gift was three grove-born Bzzzt. Valdemar prayed to every god he'd ever heard of. > But it is made very clear to us throughout the entire saga that Talia has > absolutely no trace of mindspeaking. She couldn't hear it if Rolan did Bzzzt. Talia has enough thoughtsensing (the receptive version of MindSpeech) for her to get words when she's tranced down or they're carried by very strong emotions, the same way she can receive images. > Besides, why would Rolan not be allowed to mindspeak Talia? She is, after > So once again, I assert that the ONLY reason that Talia and Rolan do not > share actual mindspeech is that Talia does not have the Gift for it. If she > did, then she and Rolan could talk all they want. However, since Talia can Rolan isn't 'allowed' to casually mindspeak Talia because she doesn't have enough of the Gift. *However*, this doesn't mean that he *can't*, just that it's 'not done'. -jenneke jsb-+AT+-phantom.com new .sig in development ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:39:02 -0500 (EST) From: Jennifer Broekman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: more mindspeech... Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Heather Mina wrote: > But Rolan *does* mindspeak both Dirk and Elspeth, and it is hinted that he > mindspeaks Elspeth's Companion from the other side of the world! This is > why I doubt the mindspeech problem has anything to do with Rolan himself. First, Haven is hardly the other side of the world from the vales. There's barely a full country in between them! White Gryphon or the empires of the southern Black Kings, *those* are on the other side of the world. Second, Companion-Companion communication is not necessarily the same as Companion-non-spirit communication. Third, both Gwena and Rolan were trancing for their talks, which greatly extends range (from WoC). > See above - when Talia is first in training, Ylsa just assumes that Talia > has the mindspeaking gift. But when Talia just can't "hear" anything, they > realize that the Gift has to do with emotions, not words. And when Talia She can't hear when she tries to block out the emotions coming in from outside. When she lets emotions coming in from outside in, she gets pictures and words as well as emotions. ("Come here, little boy" is, after all, words...) > are all (with the exception of Warrl, who *does* have the ability to use > vocal speech - note the kyree colony in the Vanyel books and the ones who > are of Clan k'Leshya) postulated as spirits of deceased himan beings - who Bzzzt. Kyree communicate with Vanyel via mindspeech, in spite of the fact that they don't share a language and the fact that the kyree language isn't even close to Valdemaran (or Shin'a'in). And the theory is that souls move between species, not that the non-humans have souls that were once human. The Tayledras don't put humans on that kind of pedestal. > I disagree. Since mindspeech is called "speech", and since our thought > patterns are so heavily influenced by our native language (or the language > in which we are thinking at the time), I don't see how it could NOT be > determined by language. If I am mindspeaking German words at you, and you > don't know German, how will you understand me? So, clearly, when Warrl was mindspeaking kyree howls at Tarma, there was no way for Tarma to understand him. Ditto for the kyree who spoke to Vanyel. Say, what??? > jenneke writes... > >Why does this make it an unbonded Choosing? Are you saying that all > >lifebonded Heralds have unbonded Choosings, because they're likely to > >quickly follow their lifebonded when s/he dies? > Obviously, not. There are lots of lifebonded Heralds running through > Misty's books (which seems strange, since lifebonds are supposed to be so > rare and special), most of them with bonded choosings. But I remember that > it came up once that Shavri did not have a bonded choosing. She was Chosen > by the Monarch's Own Companion because her healing gifts were needed so > desperately for King Randale, not because she would otherwise be a good > Monarch's Own Herald. (Remember Vanyel's discussion with her over why the > healing gifts are particularly *bad* for a Monarch's Own Herald?) The fact that she wouldn't have been Chosen if she hadn't been a Healer *doesn't* mean that her Choosing was unbonded. > There is also discussion somewhere in the books (I'll have to go home and > dig them up) about what would happen if a child who was destined to be the > Monarch's Own were in a particularly dangerous situation or needed to be in > training right away. In this situation, an unbonded choosing might take > place with a "free" Companion. Right. But once the child became Monarch's Own, s/he *would* have a bonded Choosing with the MOC. > About the discussion on Monarch's Own Companions... > It is accepted by the Heraldic Circle that when the MOC survives the MOH, he > just goes out and chooses another Herald. Everyone KNEW Rolan - who had > been Talamir's Companion before he Chose Talia - and had been anxiously > awaiting his Chosen Herald. Rolan (arguably one of the more manipulative of > the Companions, along with Elpeth's Gwena) did not bother to conceal the > fact that he was the MOC before, and might be again. I see it as a > comforting constant, that the MOC would remain the same, even if the Herald > dies. Presumably, the MOC could inform the MOH (upon being asked, of > course, because that's how it works) about political situations that he had > seen before, and how best to handle certain people... We all agree that the > Companion would have the ability to present himself as a different entity, > but I want to know why he should bother? You're entirely missing the point I was making. There's no reason for the MOC to conceal that he's the same if he didn't die, but there *is* if he *did*. It's the opposite situation that I was talking about: the one where the *MOC* dies and the *MOH* doesn't. In that situation, allowing the Heralds to know that the MOC was the same spirit as the one who just died would place *way* too much emphasis on the fact that Companions are spirit-beings, not just 'special'. It would tend to make the Heralds think of the Companions as what they really are and to rely on them for miracles, instead of working things out themselves. -jenneke jsb-+AT+-phantom.com new .sig in development ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:49:22 -0500 (EST) From: Jennifer Broekman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Twin bonds and other things Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Nov 1995, Mat Timmerman wrote: > What I always wondered was _why_ Savil would make him break it. Was it > just because of the feud? If so, politics aren't really a good enough > reason to break a twin bond. If not, why? Savil couldn't know that > Staven would be killed and drive 'Lendel mad. Tylendel's bond with Staven prevented him from learning to be impartial, even when friends and family were concerned, which Heralds *have* to learn. It's more than politics, it's the core of being a Herald, in some ways. About bisexual characters: One who hasn't been mentioned yet: Sherill. She had lovers (and we know that at least some of them were male or she wouldn't have needed to be as comfortable using birth control as she was) before she acknowledged the lifebond with Keren. My favorite example of a bi character is probably Kory, though. About B5: Susan Ivanova is a most gorgeous (in mind, body, and soul) woman who happens to be the second in command of Babylon 5. And, no, I'm not closet B5 fan. I post to both rastb5 and atb5.:-) About traffic levels and trimming posts: Please, folks, delete signatures and leave in the attributions at the beginning of the quoted material. It's much easier to keep track of who said what if it's at the top than if it's at the bottom, as well as being shorter. Also, please try to keep signatures to four lines or fewer. It's good netiquette. (I'll find and post the relevant Emily Postnews article if anyone disbelieves me...) -jenneke jsb-+AT+-phantom.com new .sig in development ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 18:57:21 gmt From: ajc6-+AT+-ukc.ac.uk To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Innocence... Message-ID: <9511131857.AA29120-+AT+-crane.ukc.ac.uk> Gyrfalcon was asking... > Are there any innocent persons on this list? > > Any at all? Well... I thought I was innocent until I got stuck in this mailing list...now I'm just lost and no-one wants to talk to me. To make my life even less worth living...this space-bar doesn't work very well and I have to keep pounding it to make any spaces between my words... Wishes and Dreams... - Andromeda ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:49:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: If you could be..... Message-ID: <01HXLFK3842094E1EE-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) > >You wrote: > > > >> >>wyvern, rambling > >> > >Seek magic for the comforting it brings the weak and poor >What hate destroys with bitter power, a healer may restore >I know the lore of darkness, it has touched my deepest heart >But love can build a haven and give hope a place to start... > > >See the kinds of things you ppl without the Shadow Stalker album are >missing? I just LURVE that song!!! > > - Shadow-Lover I love that song too! It's currently one of my favorites on the album. You know, my English professor told my class to each bring in one song on tape that was their favourite or meant something to them. I was going to use "Shadow Lover", but he won't allow any songs over 3 minutes and SL is around four and a half :( . So, instead, I'll probably use "Windrider Unchained". It's going to be fun weirding out my English class with it. It's mostly Freshmen (unlike me), and I'll probably have to sit thru way too much Green Day. Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu "Do or do not; there is no try." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:03:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the latest poll Message-ID: <01HXLG28IQHG94E1EE-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Wendy Howell > >i absolutely love the fact that misty uses gay & lesbian characters in >her books...it's good to see that a fairly succcessful author isn't >afraid to do that. >the only problem i have with all this is that i have yet to see a >bisexual character in any of her books. i myself am bi, and i'd love >to see all forms of sexuality represented in her writings (i wonder if >she could even throw in a transgender somwhere...). any ideas why she >hasn't introduced us to any bi characters (or has she, and i just missed >it)? A case could be made that Sherril is bi. Before Keren, she had plenty of male lovers. IIRC, the first time we see _any_ signs of her being a lesbian is when Ylsa dies. Talia has some kind of insight, and all of a sudden, Sherril loves Keren. Did anyone see this coming before they read that scene? It says that Sherril had as many lovers as she wanted but never stayed with them. This could be b/c she was lesbian or b/c she was lifebonded already. I think that she desired the guys she slept with, but loved Keren and Ylsa. Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu "Do or do not; there is no try." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:07:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the latest poll Message-ID: <01HXLG85D79694E1EE-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Irene Chen > >let's see... if I could be a character from one of her books it would >probably be either Vanyel or Firesong because of their mage gifts (all >right, I admit it, I'm powerhungry), or I'd be Raistlin out of the >Dragonlance series... speaking of which, is anyone keeping up with the >books? they just keep on going and going and going... Well, there's a new book out that deals with the children of the Heros. I haven't read it yet, but I've read the first chapter (as an insert in another book). Before you read it though, read the book, _Second Generation_ (or something like that). It collects the novellas from the Tales trilogy about Caramon's sons and Raistlin's daughter. It also has new novellas about Tanis and Laurana's son, and one about Kitiara's son. I think that these stories are essential to the new book. Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu "Do or do not; there is no try." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 14:34:54 -0500 (EST) From: Jennifer Broekman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, Heather Mina wrote: > Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!!! Who said anything about there being only *one* > Monarch's Own Companion through time? The Monarch's Own Companion is > Grove-born, but then grows old and dies, just like other Companions do. But That idea has been batted around on the list for at least as long as I've been on it. Also, the MOC DOES NOT AGE. He can be killed, but he doesn't age and he doesn't die if he isn't killed. > Remember that magic bleaches pigments, including skin color, hair color, and > eyes. The next step after blue would be silver. Nope. Silver is a variation on blue. Vanyel's eyes were silver because they started out grey, not because he got bleached more than anyone else did. > But blue is regularly associated with the sky, and I would bet that > supernatural beings have blue eyes because this associates them with the > heavens (and thus, being higher than us mere mortals ). Blue is also the absence of brown pigment, at least for mammalian eyes, so bleaching, regardless of source, would turn brown eyes blue and grey eyes silver. > Umm, who exactly spoke to ungifted characters? The examples I have found > follow, but we never *KNOW* about the gifted status of the characters. > Warrl -> Tarma: how do we know that Tarma is not at least a little > bit mindgifted? Especially with her close she'enedra bond to Kethry and her > tight-knit bond with the goddess. > Warrl -> Jadus: again, how do we know that Jadus is not gifted? If > he had lived in Valdemar, he surely would have been Chosen!!! > Need -> Kethry (a mage - doesn't count; we know she can speak) > Need -> Elspeth and Skif (well, they're gifted!!!) > Need -> Kyara (she has the mage-gift or wouldn't be attractive to > Falconsbane; besides, she talks back!) > If anyone can think of any others please let me know. I would bet that > there is no mention of the characters being mind-deaf! Why, pray tell, does Kethry not count? She's got less mindspeech than Talia does, after all. What this list looks like is that you're giving a Gift to anyone we've seen receive mindspeech, even if there's no other evidence, or even counter evidence, to them having the Gift. Tarma, for example, comments at one point that she was always surprised when Warrl spoke to her, because she was neither Gifted nor a mage (who could have a familiar-bond with a kyree). Also, when Altra drops into the strategy meeting to announce the distribution of mages at strategic points, he is heard by the engineers present as well as everyone else. Surely you're not going to say that they're Gifted, too. Finally, Nyara (not Kyara) did not mindspeak to Need. She formed thoughts on the surface of her mind and Need read them, which requires that Need be able to read thoughts, but *not* that Nyara be able to project them. > >3) Do we _ever_ see Rolan Mindspeak to Talia, even in a trance? I > >can't remember, and I don't have my books here. > Nope. I remain positive that Talia cannot mind**hear**. No reflection on > Rolan's abilities at all! If she'd never done it, why would she suggest that she trance down so Rolan could talk to her? If she couldn't mindhear, why would she get words along with the pictures and emotions that Nevan (?) sent during training? Why would she have gotten Ylsa's final words along with the image? Why does it seem that you'd prefer to believe that Misty is stupidly inconsistent than that projective mindspeech doesn't require receptive mindspeech on the other end? > Talia's gift is in the healing family of gifts, rather than in the > communications family of gifts. She has a very VERY strong gift of > projective and sensitive empathy. This is the strong ability which was > masked by her ability to hear of speak mind-to-mind. No Gift appears completely alone. Talia's Empathy is by far and away her strongest Gift, but she also has FarSight, MindSpeech, and MindHealing, which cover three of the five major categories of Gifts (Sight, Speech, Movement, Magery, and Healing). -jenneke jsb-+AT+-phantom.com new .sig in development ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 14:42:33 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: bardic gift and other threads Message-ID: <9511131943.AA12733-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Catherine writes... >Maybe Van's Bardic gift never developed because he was never trained in >its use. he was needed to much as a Herlad-Mage, and wouldn't a gift >atrophy after a while if it wasn't being used? While the "mental muscles" that you would use to exercise you Gift might atrophy, I don't think that the Gift itself could. For an example, someone who has the Gift of creating beautiful artwork would never lose that Gift, but could lose the use of his or her hands. > there are a couple of inconsistencies here and there, though; this is >really nitpicky, but 'Lendel is described as "a marginal Empath when he wasn't >thinking about it"; and Vanyel has "as much Empathy as Tylendel had ever shown"; >but then, later, i can't remember exactly where, Vanyel is described as "an >Empath" - as in, a full Empath. hmmm... :> >- meg Well, Van never was described as being a full empath. It's just that all his energy channels were blasted open at once, including the empathic channel. Empathy was never his strongest Gift, but I think it is relatively safe to assume that Vanyel has every Gift in as good if not better quality than many "minor" Heralds with only one or two in evidence. >Heyla, all... > why do you say Van never used his Gift? He loved music. Just 'cuz he >wasn't trained doesn't mean he couldn't *use* it... >wyvern You know, I'd even bet money that Van probably *did* use it a time or two without even realizing it. (Given that he was never trained...) Seanna writes... >My favorite theory is still that it's the 'bonding with Lendel that >caused the Foresight dreams (possibly because Lifebonding, like >Companion-bonding, boosts the Gifts? And even opens the Channels - >Talia, for example, only had her Gift wake up after she'd been >Chosen, no?). Well, who knows! I am sure that it was Talia's latent empathy that made her so miserable with the Holderkin. I will give you that she did grow up in a miserable and even abusive environment, but I think the hard feelings directed toward Talia made even more unhappy. But I think you have a point about bonding. Bonding, whether with a Companion or a person, would cause some other "channels" in the mind to open - specifically the channels which govern romantic love (or lust!), sensing the needs of a partner... I have noticed that these "channels" have become *much* more active in me since marrying, and even more since childbirth. Seanna writes... >I think Vanyel doesn't have the Bardic Gift, and Misty screwed up >with the reference in MPawn. The books _never_ again (I could be >wrong) even refer to Vanyel having the Gift, whereas he _does_ use >Fetching, Fire-starting, the Mage Gift, Empathy, Mindspeech and >Foresight (not sure about Farsight, though that might be included >when they're creating the Web) and even Healing. Come ON! Savil almost cries in sympathy for Van when she sees that the channel for the Bardic Gift was blasted open along with the rest of them. But didn't she also say something about using that channel causing pain for him? I don't remember that part too clearly. The question is, did Van ever know that he had the Bardic Gift? Did he suppress this knowledge from himself, because it would cause him too much pain? After all, it was the lack of this gift that kept him out of Bardic Collegium. > And the Bardic Gift _would_ have been useful, even if not crucial; >didn't Vanyel worry about the Herald-Mages vs. "plain Heralds" >question (MPromise) - which was finally solved by Stefen (using, among >other things, the Gift). There are also numerous council meetings in >which it might be useful - and Herald ethics don't forbid all >manipulation. (Vanyel's lecture to Medren on the ethics of Gift use). >I think if Van had it he'd use it. I think Van just wasn't trained in the use of the Bardic Gift, and whether he knew he had it or not, did not keep it under conscious control. Just performing music is a very exhausting process, with or without the Gift to control as well. Would Van have ever noticed, if he did not know he had it? > Also I just thought of the scene in MPromise when Vanyel is >talking with Jervis about Medren - doesn't he say straight out that >he "never had the gift"? He was good enough at performance to >qualify, and creativity seems less important (it's not referred to as >often as the two others), so I think he's talking of the Bardic >Gift. Van knows that he did not have the Bardic Gift when he auditioned for the Collegium. But (assuming he knows he has it), do you think he really wants to talk about how his gifts were awakened, and how he came to have it even after Bardic Collegium rejected him? >Besides, about training: Vanyel obviously was trained in using all his >other Gifts, even Healing which was a much lesser Gift for him than >the Bardic. So why wouldn't they teach him to use that too? >(It's been stated that Healing requires knowledge, and in MPrice Van >uses it to Heal himself, powering it with his Mage Gift. I think. >Therefore he has to have had training.) Don't forget that Van's Gift-training came from two Tayledras HEALING adepts. Of course he was trained in how to use his healing gift! But we never know if they can hold a tune with a bucket. > OTOH, the Bardic Gift doesn't seem to require training - Talia uses >it before having had _any_ Gift training. WHEN does Talia use the Bardic Gift? She is a very talented musician, but there is absolutely no mention of her having the Bardic Gift! Catherine writes... >Argh. IT HAS BEEN STATED FLAT OUT AND DEMONSTRATED THAT A COMPANION -ANY >COMPANION!- CAN MINDSPEAK ANYONE S/HE DAMN WELL PLEASES. (Fit of >exasperation off.) If Rolan pleases he can speak to Talia and hear her >thoughts. Her personal gifts have nothing to do with it; companions can >speak to people with *no* gifts *at all* and hear their thoughts. Ex: >Yfandes and Stefen. Therefore, it must be Rolan's choice not to do so. NOPE! Don't believe it. Why do you assume that Stefen does not have the gift of mindspeaking? We are never told one way or the other!!! Again, if I am completely deaf, then I can't hear you talking to me. Likewise, if my mind is deaf to mindspeech, then I can't hear you (Companion or otherwise) speaking to me. >Are you sure that any kyree speak aloud? I don't remember this. Examples >of specific instances, please... End of Magic's Price - Van and Stefen arrive at kyree colony, where kyree nurse Van back to health. Okay, enough of Gifts and mindspeaking and all. I have to go make it so when people hit the "tab" key, it takes them to the next button. Sigh... why was it I wanted to be a programmer? &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& && I have never let my schooling && && interfere with my education. && &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Heather L. Mina hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 225 *********************************