MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 226 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz by Gyrfalcon 2) lackey-owner-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk by Heather Mina 3) Current discussion by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 4) Re: the latest poll by Amy Mason 5) Re: Several things (and even an on topic question!) by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 6) Re: first exposure to fantasy by AliFarr-+AT+-aol.com 7) Re: the latest poll by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 8) Re: more mindspeech... by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 9) Re: Van's Bardic Gift by Amy Mason 10) Re: Innocence... by urtho-+AT+-stargazer.netshop.net (Amberdrake) 11) Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz by Tammy Harris 12) Re: bio/first fantasy by Lessa4-+AT+-aol.com 13) Re: bonds and mindspeech by Mat Timmerman 14) sigs by CHONNI 15) Casting by Rosario Holsen-Baker 16) Re: Casting by Staci Schoenfeld 17) Re: a thought... by "Sanna Koulu" 18) Re: Casting by "Sanna Koulu" 19) bio by "Scarlett E. Blizzard" 20) Re: bardic gift by "Sanna Koulu" 21) Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz by "Sanna Koulu" 22) Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz by "Sanna Koulu" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:00:00 -0500 (EST) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz Message-ID: > Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!!! Who said anything about there being only *one* > Monarch's Own Companion through time? The Monarch's Own Companion is > Grove-born, but then grows old and dies, just like other Companions > do. But even though the MOC grieves when his Herald dies (as Rolan > assuredly grieved for Talamir), the MOC is required to choose another > Monarch's Own Herald. Bzzzt! Wrong! Arrows of the Queen: pg 124 "That Companion appears from the Grove just as the originals did. He is always a stallion, and he never seems to age. He always gives his name to his Herald; the others may or may not do so, and may allow their Heralds to pick a name for them. If he is killed--and many have been--another appears from the Grove to take his place." etc. The MOC doesn't age or die from age, but can be killed. If the MO is killed or dies then he picks another MO. Just as if the MOC is killed and the MO is still living, that is the Herald he picks. Just cleearing things up, --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 15:21:44 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: lackey-owner-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Message-ID: <9511132022.AA14006-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Mel, I sent that command to set my account back to message rather than digest mode. However, even though I got the acknowledgement back, I'm still getting digests instead of individual messages. Can you tell me what to do again, so that I can try it once more? Sorry to keep bugging you... Heather &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& && I have never let my schooling && && interfere with my education. && &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Heather L. Mina hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:59:31 -0600 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Current discussion Message-ID: <199511132159.AA037079970-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> Just a few remarks about recent postings- The blue eyes of the people in Dune- yes, the color was computer generated but they had to go through the film frame by frame by hand to select the eyes which is why mistakes cropped up. In the storyline, the blue came from ingestion of the Spice Melange (sp?) (a drug inherent to Dune which gets into everything including food and therefore marks either a native or a long-time resident). Vanyel and the Bardic Gift - I think that Vanyel DID have the Bardic Gift but as someone else mentioned, all his other gifts really outweighed the Bardic Gift in strength. I don't think it is a lapse on ML's part - there was a significant and pointed mention of the Gift after Savil had read him and deduced (I'm paraphrasing - it's accurate in idea, not in details) "As if the Gods had made up for his lack of Gift in the past by granting him the Bardic Gift now, eventhough it was still minor relative to his other new Gifts". In later books there's no reason for him to use the Bardic Gift so it wasn't mentioned. As to getting training, I would agree that a Bardic Gift doesn't REQUIRE training - Medren and 'Lendel were using it before they even got to the Collegium. I wonder if Healing is the same.... I wonder how the Bardic Gift is treated outside of Valdemar- if it is even recognized. There are Bards - but they always seemed to be more Muscicians than having the Bardic Gift. Mindspeaking and Rolan and Talia- Rolan and most Companions probably can speak to just about anyone they please- however, I've been wondering if some reasons why they may not include: (1) they want to perpetuate the popular assumption that Companions are more horse-like (thereby getting their Enemies to underestimate them). If they keep talking to people then they foster the idea that they aren't just horses. Most people to whom they speak already are aware - to some degree- of the Guardian Spirit aspect of the Companions; (2) while they may be able to communicate with anyone, it may require a LOT more energy than speaking with those with the Gift to hear them - sort of like Talia being able to Mindspeak Rolan but only in a trance - such that it isn't practical to do most of the time; (3) to minimize over-dependence on the special skills of the Companions so that the Heralds look to them first rather than depending first upon themselves (remember - even most Heralds don't quite realize the extent of the abilities of the Companions - like their using nodal energy to be able to extend their endurance and increase their speed). Mindspeaking in general- Kethry does count in terms of non-Mindspeakers being talked to by gifted Mindspeakers (Waarl). Kethry had NO mind magic. She only had the Mage Gift. Her speaking to Need might be different due to the soul bond although Need was only barely awake. Kero on the other hand was a Mindspeaker therefore the communication with Need. Sorry for the lack of quotations of the original posts. I've been using a different mail reader at work from which I cannot post to this list - it has an "unrecognizable address" for the listserver. I use another program at home to download my mail. Helen ************************************ Helen Wilfehrt Dept. Physiology (M211) Northwestern University Medical School 303 E. Chicago Ave Chicago, IL 60611 Voice: (312) 503-0202 FAX: (312) 503-5101 Email: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 14:25:55 -0800 (PST) From: Amy Mason To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the latest poll Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, MISS MARIA T FOGEL wrote: > Irene, > RE: dragonlance: Rastlin is also my fav. char. I stopped reading > after the series about him and his twin. I never *could* find the 1st > bk of that, but no matter... I'm glad he finally redeemed himself at > the end... It always annoys me when my fav char's turn bad or die or > something... > > > wyvern If you're interested. The Newest Dragonlance book is out _Dragons of Summer Flame_ in hardback. I'm reading it right now (I just went crazy at the new Barnes & Noble bookstore back at home). _Dragons of Summer Flame_ is the latest in the Chronicles Series. Are you mentioning above the Legends series? With just Raistlin and his twin Caramon's journey through time? Amy :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 09:25:54 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Several things (and even an on topic question!) Message-ID: <9511132225.AA02194-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Sorry about the formatting, I'm resending it after it bounced from my other account.. (guess who's catching up on umpteen amounts of mail.) I wrote: > On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, Catherine Osborne wrote: > > Thing B: I'm not lifebonded and frankly I'm happy that way. But I would > > like a love relationship. Male, female, purple, I don't care! And > > Jaguar/Rosario is getting disgusting (I have to hang out with her every > > day and she never stops talking about him ;) > > Purple? Purple?? How come everyone else meets all the interesting people? ;) > > > Thing C: I'm 16. I was rather surprised to find such a large contingent > > of teenagers (on most of my lists I'm the youngest or near to it - I tend > > to go in for serious stuff ;) *and* a large group of people over 35/in > > professional jobs. Is there anyone in the middle? > > Well, I'm 20 in a professional job. :) > On the other end, I found out yesterday my 8 yr old sister just finished > my spare Arrows trilogy at home, loved them, and (in her words) "learned > a lot about relationships from them". This from the child who > doesn't appreciate the _Silver Brumby_ series. I guess there's hope yet. :) > > > Miscellaneous *ON TOPIC* question: > Just finished rereading magic's ppp and it struck me very much as if > Vanyel's time might have been one of those times mentioned in the WG, where > magic wasn't working quite the way it should - not as easily, not as > reliably and not as safely. > I thought that that might be why Herald-Mages used focus-stones and why > Vanyel tended to get burned by node energy even when he was filtering it. > (Certainly we don't see the less capable mages in the Winds trilogies > getting that problem. Or perhaps he was just stretching his limits more > than they.. Even then though they never had to make the energy their > own, just tap in and use it..) > What does everyone else think? > > > Thing F (another poll!): Sundancer, the insane poller, is doing it again. > > This time its about sexuality (always a hot topic ;) If everyone emailed > > me with whether they're straight, gay, lesbian, or bi, I'll compile > > results (confidentiality respected, as always.) I do this because of my > > undying curiosity, and because I'd like to get an idea of how many people > > were attracted to Misty because she's so accepting of all sexualitys (I > > know I was, but I didn't know then that that was one reason I was so > > involved in her books ;) Please mail me by next Thursday (today is > > thursday the ninth of November) > > Hmmm, slightly on the hetero side of bi (is that a 3 or a 5 on the Kinsey?) > > Zhai'helleva! > > Kerry - > > "And in the dark of the night, there's no-one to fight, > along by your side. And we all stand alone.." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 17:40:56 -0500 From: AliFarr-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: first exposure to fantasy Message-ID: <951113174052_105509548-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> Wow. Why is it the week I have to be off line this board goes crazy! I missed two good polls, but have to put my .02 in, as actually they both tie into the subject line. Politically, I have to label myself Libertarian, as I have a strong sense of personal and fiscal responsibility, but what others choose to do in ther personal lives, hurting no one else, is no one my business. Second poll - I still love Narnia at age 38 (and I've got to be one of the oldest people on this board) whuich brings me to the subject line.... I cut my teeth on LOTR and the Hobbit, then read everyhting else on the library shelf. Does anybody else here even remember Judith Merrit????? Heinlien sp? became a fast favorite, then I discovered MZB and was in fantasy heaven. It surprised me,in rereading some old Heinlin the other day, how much his code of ethics influenced my political and philosophical leanings. In the end, I like all of Misty's writings for the same reason. Going to go back to lurking now. How do I catch up on daaayys of posts...... AliFarr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 09:39:15 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the latest poll Message-ID: <9511132239.AA02231-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Seanna wrote: > Kerry wrote: > > Hmm, what about Amberdrake, or indeed most of the kestra'cherns.. > > It's fairly strongly implied that most of them will be bisexual (or at > > least, willing to have sex with either gender - which may or may not be > > what people consider bisexual). > > I wouldn't really consider that bisexual. A lot of gay women are > married at some point in their lives, and still define themselves as > lesbians. I think bisexual should mean "capable of having erotic/ > romantic desire for people of either sex". Yes, it's a very broad > definition, but I think most people could fall in love/lust with > someone of their own/opposite sex, given the right someone and no anti- > gay brain-washing. Mmm, point taken.. that's why I caveat'd the comment.. One of the sad things about most common cultures in our world where one gay experience tends to 'brand' someone as gay forever, at least for males. It's possible that this contributes no small amount to homophobia (which in some cases seems to be the fear of being labelled 'gay' rather than actual fear of homosexuality, if that makes any sense).. > > As Karieva points out - the fact that he ends up with Winterhart doesn't > > make him non-bisexual. > > I agree on this. (though I don't think Amberdrake shows any desire > for any man?) I don't think he shows any *romantic* desire for a man, but I would think that some lust or physical desire would have to be there for him to function as a kestra'chern if a male patient required sex as part of the healing process. Maybe.. :) > Btw, what do you think of the Tayledras concepts of sexuality? Misty > doesn't really tell us anything of them, but there's the word > shay'a'chern, meaning "one whose lover is like self" (Note the > present tense). > I think this could mean that people are shay'a'chern if they _right > then_ have a lover of the same sex, and would only be "straight" (I > wonder what the Tayledras term for that is?) if they had an opposite- > sex lover at the moment. The rest of the time they wouldn't be either, > just themselves. In such an environment, there wouldn't be any > "bisexuality", unless someone had two lovers of different sexes at > generally the same time. Does that sound too spaced? > > -Seanna Seanna, that's brilliant! It's one of the nicest ideas I've heard in some time. Certainly people still fall at either end of the spectrum (Firesong being exclusively 'gay', Darkwind being exclusively 'straight') but it'd replace labels with people, which IMO is a healthy thing. Rather than labelling people, it describes situations.. I like it. I think there's still be 'bisexual' situations (heh, not people) given the Tayle'dras propensity for 'mating circles'. :) Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 09:41:58 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: more mindspeech... Message-ID: <9511132241.AA02243-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Catherine (Sundancer) wrote: > > On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Heather Mina wrote: > > it came up once that Shavri did not have a bonded choosing. She was Chosen > > Hmmmm. I was under the impression that Shavri had a bonded choosing, she > just had a weaker bond with Taver than most Heralds have. Yeup, I just finished magic's promise & price.. It's definitely a bonded choosing.. I wouldn't even necessarily say it's a weaker one (or at least can't remember it being said) - it's more just that Shavri's strengths aren't in the speaking gifts.. Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 14:33:04 -0800 (PST) From: Amy Mason To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van's Bardic Gift Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, MISS MARIA T FOGEL wrote: > Senna, > re: van not using bardic gift: we don't know he doesn't. Misty never > says one way or the other. I'd imagine, tho, that it'd be very > painful, tied up w/memories of 'lendel. > Re: van saying he 'never had the gift': Wasn't that where he was > talking to medren? I think he was referring to before that whole > 'lendel incident, when he wanted to be a bard. > > > wyvern Re: Van having the bardic gift. In MPawn, once Van has had his channels bursted open because of 'Lendel's gate, Savil(sp?) assess the powers Van has and she says something to the effect of Ironie of Ironies he has the Bardic Gift. It may be a mistake, but this IS what Misty wrote. Any comments? Amy :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 15:08 PST From: urtho-+AT+-stargazer.netshop.net (Amberdrake) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Innocence... Message-ID: >Gyrfalcon was asking... > >> Are there any innocent persons on this list? >> >> Any at all? What's your definition of innocent? Amberdrake ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 16:09:26 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz Message-ID: <5CE016D5DB9-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> Hi all! On Nov 13, Heather wrote: > Umm, who exactly spoke to ungifted characters? The examples I have found > follow, but we never *KNOW* about the gifted status of the characters. > Warrl -> Tarma: how do we know that Tarma is not at least a little > bit mindgifted? Especially with her close she'enedra bond to Kethry and her > tight-knit bond with the goddess. > Warrl -> Jadus: again, how do we know that Jadus is not gifted? If > he had lived in Valdemar, he surely would have been Chosen!!! > Need -> Kethry (a mage - doesn't count; we know she can speak) > > If anyone can think of any others please let me know. I would bet that > there is no mention of the characters being mind-deaf! I beg to differ; Kethry can't mindspeak. I don't have the exact quote, but Kethry specifically says something like, "I don't know how he [Warrl] made me hear him, since I have *no* trace of that gift at all. > >3) Do we _ever_ see Rolan Mindspeak to Talia, even in a trance? I > >can't remember, and I don't have my books here. > Nope. I remain positive that Talia cannot mind**hear**. No reflection on > Rolan's abilities at all! Well, actually, they do. At one point, Rolan is concerned about something, and Talia asks if it's urgent enough for her to trance down to talk to him. -Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:29:56 -0500 From: Lessa4-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: bio/first fantasy Message-ID: <951113182951_105558282-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> I'm 35, and live in Oklahoma City, (I grew up in Sacramento, CA). I come from a 'bookoholic' family and have been reading since I can remember. I started in fantasy with Narnia, also read Lloyd Alexander and Madeline L'engle. Also, Edward Eager (anyone else heard of him?) I discovered 'The Lord of the Rings' and Anne McCaffery's 'Pern' books in high school. Fantasy books are my favorites, but I also read mysteries,I like murder mysteries that focus on the investigation/trial the best). I also read books that are light and aren't very demanding at times. Like Susan Conents Dog Lover Mysteries. I like books that have characters I can like/relate to and have an interesting plot. Misty's books sure fit that discription! Janis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:53:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: bonds and mindspeech Message-ID: <01HXLS8IBAQQ94E5IR-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Heather Mina > >Zoe writes... >> 3)re: Only when he chose her, and when she fell into the Terilee >>River, she yelled :Rolan!: in this way. >Is there really a difference to you between saying "Mommy" and the feeling >that saying "Mommy" give you? My point is that we associate feelings (warm >and fuzzy or sharp and pointy) with the names of people we know, so that the >actual name (in letters) becomes secondary. So do we know that she really >did yell :Rolan!:, or just projected very strongly to him in a way that is >best summed up as his name? I lost the original post, so I'll respond to a reply. When Talia is thrown into the river, she doesn't say :Rolan!: at all. I just finished AotQ (again), so I remember. All it says is something about her mind shreiking in incoherrent fear. Then Rolan comes for her. She never MindCalls him in words, only emotions. When Ylsa realizes that Talia is an Empath, she uses this as an example. She says something like, "Your MindCall to Rolan was an emotion, fear." That's a massive paraphrase, though. Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu "Do or do not; there is no try." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 17:11:54 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey list Subject: sigs Message-ID: Mat wrote (i'm really paraphrazing, since my modem isn't working very well): ...sigh, Vax is the source of all evil. now wouldn't that make a great sig, or what? also, new poll/question: what other, non-technical mailing lists do people subscribe to? I'm curious to see if there is any overlap. Oh, and if you do respond, mail me, and not the misty list; gotta cut down on the number of messages, or Mel wont be able to keep up! *********************************************************************** -Chonni Brightwolf (Katherine Moll, student) University College of the Cariboo British Columbia, CANADA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 21:19:24 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Casting Message-ID: Hmmm...I was just watching Ladyhawke, and I have a casting suggestion for Alberich (of all people)...Rutger Hauer! He just...I don't know, maybe it's the character of Navarre, but he reminds me of Aberich. And speaking of whom, how come we never actually hear much about him? I like him, dammit! Ever since that story in Horse Fantastic... |-------------------------------<>-------------------------------| | "So, so you think you can tell/Heaven from Hell | | Blue skies from pain/Can you tell a green field | | From a cold steel rail/A smile from a veil | | Do you think you can tell?" | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 20:43:11 -0800 From: Staci Schoenfeld To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Casting Message-ID: <199511140443.UAA24973-+AT+-stealth.romoidoy.com> At 04:41 AM 11/14/95 GMT, you wrote: > Hmmm...I was just watching Ladyhawke, and I have a casting >suggestion for Alberich (of all people)...Rutger Hauer! He just...I don't >know, maybe it's the character of Navarre, but he reminds me of >Aberich. How about Gerard Depardieu for Alberich? The accent might work in his favor.... Staci ------------------------------------------------------------ Staci Schoenfeld http://www.zoom.com/personal/staci/staci1.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 08:19:25 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: a thought... Message-ID: <1049F2B159F-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> > Heyla, fellow-people > with-too-much-time-on- > your-hands... What do you mean? I'll have you know I'm doing this while I _should_ be studying for a test. And besides, if you call us "fellow-people", that would mean you're one of us! HAHAHAAA! We've got you now! > > > Wyvern pointed out that Vanyel's dreams of Lendel were just wishful > thinking. - But the dreams of Lendel were mixed in with the Foresight > dreams of dying. Maybe the Lifebond was bound up with Vanyel's > death. > Remember Moondance in MPawn talking about how, if he knew his bond > with Starwind would cause his death, he'd still choose it? I think > that was a definite hint that that was how it was with Vanyel. It > seems just the kind of thing the Tayledras would do; and besides, > Moondance also pointed out that he and Van had a lot in common. > > forgive me, but my mind is mush. Could you expain that? I'm not sure if I can - my mind is mushy too. I guess the point was that the Tayledras wouldn't _tell_ if the Lifebond would cause Van's death, they'd just hint. And of course, if Van and Lendel hadn't gotten 'bonded, Vanyel wouldn't have become a Herald and so wouldn't have died that way. OTOH, there's the fact you can't escape a Lifebond, so Vanyel couldn't exactly say no to that. Moondance, though, implied he could choose _not_ to have a bond with Starwind, who was his shay'kreth'ashke. So, since the dreams of Lendel were mixed with the Foresight dreams, maybe it meant that Vanyel _could_ choose to end his isolation and pair up with Tylendel, but the most likely cause of that would be his death against Leareth. Remember, the dreams were absent for a long time before Vanyel was lifebound with Stefen. And then they came back... Does that explain anything? I tried, at least... -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 08:27:33 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Casting Message-ID: <104C2603BB0-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Staci wrote: At 04:41 AM 11/14/95 GMT, you wrote: > > Hmmm...I was just watching Ladyhawke, and I have a casting > >suggestion for Alberich (of all people)...Rutger Hauer! He just...I don't > >know, maybe it's the character of Navarre, but he reminds me of > >Aberich. > > How about Gerard Depardieu for Alberich? The accent might work in his favor.... nonono! Not Gerard Depardieu! Sorry, I don't really like him, and I _loved_ Alberich - I want to read more about him. Rutger Hauer is too pretty and pale, but maybe some make-up - his style is very Alberich, I agree. -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 8:08:00 CET (0708Z) From: "Scarlett E. Blizzard" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: bio Message-ID: <9511140723.AA14348-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> My bio; Hi, I'm Scarlett Blizzard (my real name) I 'm originally from Mississippi, recently moved to Wuerzburg Germany from Belair (near Baltimore) Md. My husband is in the Army. I'm a Computer Science major at University of Md (part-time). I work as a Network System Analyst, I control 5 LAN/WAN's. I'm the only woman doing computer / network's in my geographical footprint. I'm 31 years old, will be 32 on Christmas Eve. I have 2 children ages 10 and 7, a boy and a girl. I first read Misty's "Children of the Night", I then read all the other Diana Tregarde books. The only reason I started reading LHM was because I liked the Diana books. Normally I don't read books that have a man as the main character. It's nothing personnal, I have to work and compete with them every day and frankly I get a little tired of stories where the male saves the day. I'm now waiting on Jordan to bring out a new one. I love Fantasy and Science Fiction Cons, but haven't found any over in Germany yet, I'm actively searching the web for one. In desperation, I might hop over to England for a "Con Fix" If you like books about strong PAGAN women, you would like "The Horse Goddess" by Morgan LLywelyn. It also has a bit of romance in it. My copy of the book was published in 1983, so it might be hard to come by but definitely worth looking for. Scarlett P.S. I liked Robert Asprin's "Mything Inc Series" too. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 09:35:22 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: bardic gift Message-ID: <105E33B5A6D-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Heather Mina wrote: (SNIP) > >Heyla, all... > > why do you say Van never used his Gift? He loved music. Just 'cuz he > >wasn't trained doesn't mean he couldn't *use* it... > >wyvern > > You know, I'd even bet money that Van probably *did* use it a time or two > without even realizing it. (Given that he was never trained...) WHY wouldn't he be trained?! I think if he had the Bardic Gift he _would_ be trained. The Circle can't overlook any powerful Gifts, it needs them too much. > > Seanna writes... > >I think Vanyel doesn't have the Bardic Gift, and Misty screwed up > >with the reference in MPawn. The books _never_ again (I could be > >wrong) even refer to Vanyel having the Gift, whereas he _does_ use > >Fetching, Fire-starting, the Mage Gift, Empathy, Mindspeech and > >Foresight (not sure about Farsight, though that might be included > >when they're creating the Web) and even Healing. > > Come ON! Savil almost cries in sympathy for Van when she sees that > the > channel for the Bardic Gift was blasted open along with the rest of them. > But didn't she also say something about using that channel causing pain for > him? I don't remember that part too clearly. Come ON, yourself . I remember the scene perfectly well; I've read the thing more times than I care to count. (I just _love_ Vanyel!) I think Savil said all of the blasted channels caused pain, not the Bardic only. I meant, _after_ that mention the Gift is never mentioned again, and there's circumstantial evidence against Vanyel having it. Therefore I think Misty made a mistake. (Ooo! Blasphemy!) (Authors aren't infallible; therefore it's left to us who love their books to find explanations for the inconsistencies.) > The question is, did Van ever know that he had the Bardic Gift? > Did he > suppress this knowledge from himself, because it would cause him too much > pain? After all, it was the lack of this gift that kept him out of Bardic > Collegium. Yes. But I think that he was in too much pain over losing his shay'kreth'ashke to worry about that. And I think he was largely healed from his hurt about not getting in to the Bardic Collegium when he played for Lendel. Besides, I think Yfandes would also try to cure the trauma. As would the Hawkbrothers; after all, they pressurized him to learn the magic, because otherwise he'd be dangerous. Well, the Bardic Gift is dangerous too. > > And the Bardic Gift _would_ have been useful, even if not crucial; > >didn't Vanyel worry about the Herald-Mages vs. "plain Heralds" > >question (MPromise) - which was finally solved by Stefen (using, among > >other things, the Gift). There are also numerous council meetings in > >which it might be useful - and Herald ethics don't forbid all > >manipulation. (Vanyel's lecture to Medren on the ethics of Gift use). > >I think if Van had it he'd use it. > > I think Van just wasn't trained in the use of the Bardic Gift, and whether > he knew he had it or not, did not keep it under conscious control. Just > performing music is a very exhausting process, with or without the Gift to > control as well. Would Van have ever noticed, if he did not know he had it? Why wouldn't he know? Why wouldn't he be trained? And besides, the Bardic Gift is closely related to projective Empathy; Vanyel had that, so why wouldn't he use the Bardic Gift (to calm Tashir, say), when the weaker Empathy was insufficient? > > Also I just thought of the scene in MPromise when Vanyel is > >talking with Jervis about Medren - doesn't he say straight out that > >he "never had the gift"? He was good enough at performance to > >qualify, and creativity seems less important (it's not referred to as > >often as the two others), so I think he's talking of the Bardic > >Gift. > Van knows that he did not have the Bardic Gift when he auditioned for the > Collegium. But (assuming he knows he has it), do you think he really wants > to talk about how his gifts were awakened, and how he came to have it even > after Bardic Collegium rejected him? I don't think Vanyel's that unbalanced. He might not want to talk about it, but Heralds don't lie. Ever. It's proverbial. So if he says he never had it, I think he means it. > >Besides, about training: Vanyel obviously was trained in using all his > >other Gifts, even Healing which was a much lesser Gift for him than > >the Bardic. So why wouldn't they teach him to use that too? > >(It's been stated that Healing requires knowledge, and in MPrice Van > >uses it to Heal himself, powering it with his Mage Gift. I think. > >Therefore he has to have had training.) > Don't forget that Van's Gift-training came from two Tayledras HEALING > adepts. Of course he was trained in how to use his healing gift! But we > never know if they can hold a tune with a bucket. Yes they can. Moondance played the flute in MPawn. (Btw, I doubt that _all_ of Vanyel's Gift-training came from the Tayledras. They don't use the mind-magic as much as Valdemarans, and Vanyel had _all_ the Gifts, and powerful. I think he has to have had valdemaran training too.) > > OTOH, the Bardic Gift doesn't seem to require training - Talia uses > >it before having had _any_ Gift training. > WHEN does Talia use the Bardic Gift? She is a very talented musician, but > there is absolutely no mention of her having the Bardic Gift! Yes there is. Jadus says something to the effect that "and I think you've got a little trace of the Gift, too, little one" (heavy paraphrasing there). Also, it's pointed out that "she sang with something more than her heart and voice, something the finest training couldn't impart.", when she's singing with Dirk and Kris. Now, that could mean "she sang with her soul", but I think it refers to the Gift, since it's said she has it. > Catherine writes... > >Argh. IT HAS BEEN STATED FLAT OUT AND DEMONSTRATED THAT A COMPANION -ANY > >COMPANION!- CAN MINDSPEAK ANYONE S/HE DAMN WELL PLEASES. (Fit of > >exasperation off.) If Rolan pleases he can speak to Talia and hear her > >thoughts. Her personal gifts have nothing to do with it; companions can > >speak to people with *no* gifts *at all* and hear their thoughts. Ex: > >Yfandes and Stefen. Therefore, it must be Rolan's choice not to do so. > > NOPE! Don't believe it. Why do you assume that Stefen does not have the > gift of mindspeaking? We are never told one way or the other!!! Again, if > I am completely deaf, then I can't hear you talking to me. Likewise, if my > mind is deaf to mindspeech, then I can't hear you (Companion or otherwise) > speaking to me. Stefen didn't have Mindspeech. It's stated straight out. Otherwise he could have shared his mind with Van when they -you know. (to quote MPrice). I think Vanyel would have known, even though he had never experienced lovers mindmelding before. -Seanna, who's feeling rant-y today :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 09:57:52 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz Message-ID: <10643DA7E90-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Jenneke wrote: (SNIP) > > Remember that magic bleaches pigments, including skin color, hair color, and > > eyes. The next step after blue would be silver. > > Nope. Silver is a variation on blue. Vanyel's eyes were silver because > they started out grey, not because he got bleached more than anyone else > did. I beg to differ! Vanyel had _silver_ eyes from the beginning. NOT grey. (of course, I'm none too sure what the color difference is...) Btw, Brightstar had silver eyes too, and he didn't get bleached to blue in the time we knew him. > > But blue is regularly associated with the sky, and I would bet that > > supernatural beings have blue eyes because this associates them with the > > heavens (and thus, being higher than us mere mortals ). > > Blue is also the absence of brown pigment, at least for mammalian eyes, > so bleaching, regardless of source, would turn brown eyes blue and grey > eyes silver. I'm not sure about this, but I think from my biology class that new evidence indicates that grey eyes result from half-brown, half-blue mix. That is, grey is a middle color, with some brown pigment in it. Therefore it _should_ fade to blue. Why it didn't in Vanyel's case - well, his hair didn't fade all the way, either. Maybe he would have faded all the way to white-and-blue, if he had lived longer. As for Brightstar, we see him only as a youth; he might have faded too. Though I don't understand why the magic doesn't bleach the Adepts all the way to albinos... Maybe Misty doesn't like red eyes. > > >3) Do we _ever_ see Rolan Mindspeak to Talia, even in a trance? I > > >can't remember, and I don't have my books here. > > Nope. I remain positive that Talia cannot mind**hear**. No reflection on > > Rolan's abilities at all! > > If she'd never done it, why would she suggest that she trance down so > Rolan could talk to her? If she couldn't mindhear, why would she get > words along with the pictures and emotions that Nevan (?) sent during > training? Why would she have gotten Ylsa's final words along with the > image? Why does it seem that you'd prefer to believe that Misty is > stupidly inconsistent than that projective mindspeech doesn't require > receptive mindspeech on the other end? (Possibly because Misty _is_ inconsistent?) When Talia suggested trancing down to communicate with Rolan, maybe she didn't mean actual talking. Perhaps she just meant that he could have communicated clearer pictures and more precise emotions. Some one who has the books at hand could check? (hint hint) I think it's pretty much proved that projective Mindspeech doesn't need receptive Mindspeech. It's also fairly certain that receptive Mindspeech doesn't require the projective (that is, you can pick up someone's surface thoughts even if they have no Mindspeech). Also, mutual applications of the Gifts require less effort and power. That is, when both parties have the appropriate Gift, the communication is easiest. When the other person is totally "deaf", the other one needs a more powerful Gift. Makes sense? I maintain that Rolan was too weak a Mindspeaker to bespeak Talia ordinarily - he would have needed her to trance. If Talia _or_ Rolan was better at Mindspeaking, Talia wouldn't have needed to. I wonder if Rolan had tranced, would he have been able to bespeak Talia without her doing it too? What do you think? -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 10:04:22 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz Message-ID: <1065F580C86-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Heather Mina wrote: > Also, I think that the description of the Empire envoy's abilities are just > an expression. Surely you've heard the expression about a person yelling so > loudly that the deaf (or the dead) could hear it ?!? No, I think it was quite literal in that case. Besides the wording of the spot (I really should check it), well, Valdemarans were strong enough Mindspeakers to be "Adepts". I don't think Elspeth would be that surprised by just a loud voice. -Seanna ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 226 *********************************