MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 240 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Neverending Story by mikkell-+AT+-cybernet.dk (Mikkel Larsen) 2) Re: MindMagic Science: Then & Now by Mat Timmerman 3) Re: Neverending Story by Ashke 4) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 239 by rubin-+AT+-cent.com 5) Two things by rubin-+AT+-cent.com 6) Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz by Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz 7) Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz by Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz 8) Re: bonds and mindspeech by Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz 9) Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz by Jennifer Broekman 10) Re: Two things by Absolut Flaming 11) Re: Two things by dkn161-+AT+-lulu.acns.nwu.edu 12) Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz.... by dkn161-+AT+-lulu.acns.nwu.edu 13) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 239 by "Kristin A. Ruhle" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 21:52:09 +0100 From: mikkell-+AT+-cybernet.dk (Mikkel Larsen) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Neverending Story Message-ID: <9511182054.AA00111-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Heather Mina wrote: > Has anyone read the book? I have it - have read it several times and like it. I have never seen the film, but if you think it is good I will look for it next time I rent a video. Mikkel Larsen (mikkell-+AT+-cybernet.dk) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 18:08:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MindMagic Science: Then & Now Message-ID: <01HXSQ4Y3VNM94F0H1-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Adrienne York > >On Fri, 17 Nov 1995, Heather Mina wrote: > >But before that, Seanna wrote: > >> Don't forget that the Heralds in Vanyel's time have a much better >> understanding of the mechanics of Gifts than the Heralds in Talia's time. I >> think that this may be due in part to the blurriness of magery, that >> gift-lore might have gotten fuzzy as well. So the Heralds in Selenay's >> court may not recognize the bardic gift in one of their own - they seem to >> adopt a "wait and see what develops" attitude as far as gifts go. > >Mindmagic not well understood after Herald Vanyel's time??????????????????? >I'm beggin' yer pardon, milady, but I do believe they were known a good sight >better after his death and the great works of Bard Stefen. This is Valdemar, >yer speaking of, them as made a science of mindmagic, and have an entire >Collegium dedicated to it in that capital of theirs. Now, if you were to say >that Selenay's bright white targets were babes in the wood when it came to the >use of magery, I'll have to agree with you, as it's the gods' honest truth. >But mindmagic? I'll be wanting some proof of that, or at least some logical >reasoning as to why you might believe that to be so. I think that each of you has part of the answer. IIRC, in Vanyel's time, they had a much better understanding of the mechanics of the Gifts. In Talia's time, though, they have a _much_ better understanding of how to _use_ the Gifts. By the time of Arrows, I seriously doubt that the Heralds know about channels and scanning a person for Gifts (didn't Vanyel say in MProm, or MPrice that it was easier for him to scan Jisa for Gifts, though others could do it?). Kyril seems to be trying to reconstruct what was known to Heralds (or at least to Herald-Mages) in Vanyel's time. Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu VAX is the source of all evil. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 18:17:26 -0500 (EST) From: Ashke To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Neverending Story Message-ID: Read the book, seen the movie.. they're both wonderful. :) -- Ashke ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Which guise shall I wear today, my dears? | The laughing mask or the one of tears? | If we weren't all crazy, Well, since my heart is blithe and gay | we would go insane. This sober one I shall wear today. | -- Zula Hall | -- Jimmy Buffett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 20:06:46 -0600 From: rubin-+AT+-cent.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 239 Message-ID: Jenneke (I think...correct me if I'm wrong (as I probably am)) while giving her extremely accurate quotes to back up the point that yes, Vanyel did have _some_ Healing power, mentioned something Vanyel thought to himself: 'If he isn't sick by nightfall, I'll eat my lute.' Now, as I had just had a new iniate to Misty's novels read the lyrics to "A Dark and Stormy Night" brought that song to my mind. What if, just maybe, during his rare free time, Vanyel wrote lyrics. And just maybe, after he died, someone found these (Stefen? Maybe?), cleaned them up, and published them! Maybe "A Dark and Stormy Night" was written by Vanyel. Or maybe Misty just said it for no reason whatsoever. It would be a neat crackpot idea, though... Well, Heyla to everyone out there...long time people on this list (and in Anne's case, two time Arrows Online joiner who never did anything) might remember me as snester-+AT+-aol.com, who occasionally posted convuluted, pointless e-mails...Well, I'm baaaa-aaaack:) Been awhile....I haven't even read anything from the list since July....but, I will now! -+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+- Oh Elbereth, watch over me while I play the game of life with fate and destiny... -The Palantir -From Journey of The Dunadan -By Glass Hammer Ubi nihil erit quod scribas, it ipsum scribito Even if you have nothing to write, write and say so. -Cicero Est Sularus oth Mithas My Honor is My Life -Knights of Solamnia of Krynn, Realm of The Dragonlance! -+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 20:15:42 -0600 From: rubin-+AT+-cent.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Two things Message-ID: A: What does QED stand for? B: Has anyone gotten the LHM Concordance which is finally out and on the way to my front door:)? I just started rereceiving the list with digest 239, so...if someone already said something, I missed it. BTW, Firebird is out of signed copies of Kyla:( I'm happy. I just ordered a whole lot of stuff from Firebird: Unsigned:( Kyla, Surfing to Mecca, Heralds, Harpers and Havoc CD:), Accross the Borders, A Start Of David Celtic Weaving, and the LHM Concordance -+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+- Oh Elbereth, watch over me while I play the game of life with fate and destiny... -The Palantir -From Journey of The Dunadan -By Glass Hammer Ubi nihil erit quod scribas, it ipsum scribito Even if you have nothing to write, write and say so. -Cicero Est Sularus oth Mithas My Honor is My Life -Knights of Solamnia of Krynn, Realm of The Dragonlance! -Zhai'Helleva from J.B. Rubin Korendil on #Macintosh (UnderNet) -+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+-#*-+AT+- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 19:28:42 -0700 (MDT) From: Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz Message-ID: Ok. On the subject of Heralds reincarnated into Companions, here are some observations: 1)Tantris is Kris' Companion until they die, Arrows Fall, and Vanyel's best buddy in Magics. 2)Jaysen(sp?) is another companion name, was Herald who knew Vanyel as well. I think Daren's? 3)Savil is now Sayvil: Arguments supporting: Name, first. Attitude, second. Third, this slip: Gwena says: "Vanyel and Sayv--Sail had too much on their minds to give descriptions of where they'd been."-Winds of Change, pg24. Gwena obviosly slipped there, using her currently familiar name to refer to this former Herald turned Companion. Thoughts? Zoe Guin, {(*j*)} kitty-+AT+-unm.edu The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer. -Jennifer Nolan Suika no hmpg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 19:47:21 -0700 (MDT) From: Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz Message-ID: In Winds of Change, Cymry is Speaking to Elivan, a dyheli, and Wintermoon, but Skif can only just barely make out that they are sending, not what they are saying. I think that Wintermoon's explanation ties into what you have been saying up until now, and Eldan's gift of Animal Mind-speech. "The mind-to-mind speech of the scouts is only between scouts and those who are not human. Perhaps you caught the edge of my conversation with Elivan. I apologize iif this seemed rude to you, but our Cymry told me that you did not share the Gift of Mindspeech with one other than her--or perhaps another Herald. I thought, then, that you did not hear us. I am sorry if you thought we had left you out a-purpose. Many Tayledras have this Gift, but I am one of the strongest speakers, as was Dawnfire. Sometimes it only extends to bondbirds. I am fortuanate that I sharre my brother's ability to speak with other creatures as well, although I do not share his gift of speaking with other humans." -Wintermoon, pg.91 WoC I am now under the impression that mindspeaking is a very complicated thing that most people do not understand. Since Skif is able to speak with Cymry and Elspeth, in this situation we must assume that Wintermoon can only speak to animals. In By The Sword, Eldan had both human and animal mindspeech, and reception seemed to go along with it. Also in WoC, Gwena, a grove-born is able to communicate with Rolan in Valdemar from k'Sheyna territory. Over a very long distance. Pg.27-28 It would seem that Misty needs to keep a tight grip on her instances of mindspeech or she might slip up. Hopw this helps some. Zoe Guin {(*j*)} kitty-+AT+-unm.edu The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer. -Jennifer Nolan Suika no hmpg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 20:02:30 -0700 (MDT) From: Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: bonds and mindspeech Message-ID: Alice writes... >One of the recent deluge of postings reminded me of an inconsistency that's >always bugged me. How come Van's bardic gift, which he clearly had blasted >open with all the others, seems to disappear forever after? Am I just >missing something? :::knocking on hard head::: Wouldn't be the first time! >:-) No, I noticed that too. In MPromise, when he first hears Medren play, Vanyel tells him that he is better than Vanyel can ever be because he has the Bardic Gift and Vanyel doesn't. But in MPawn, Savil says that the Gods must have been feeling pretty merciful because they gave him the Bardic Gift on top of everything. As in the Mindspeaking controversy where she hasn't yet slipped, she gets a little bit confusing and forgets something, and voila! Zoe Guin, who isn't critizing, so much as making observations that might annoy. kitty-+AT+-unm.edu The computer is mightier than the pen, the sword, and usually, the programmer. -Jennifer Nolan Suika no hmpg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 22:29:06 -0500 (EST) From: Jennifer Broekman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Nov 1995, Lisa Ellen Watermelon Waltz wrote: > Ok. On the subject of Heralds reincarnated into > Companions, here are some observations: > 1)Tantris is Kris' Companion until they die, Arrows > Fall, and Vanyel's best buddy in Magics. Kris's Companion's name is Tantris. Vanyel's friend's name is Tantras. > 2)Jaysen(sp?) is another companion name, was Herald who > knew Vanyel as well. I think Daren's? The Companion's name is Jasan (and he is Daren's). The Herald's name is Jaysen. > 3)Savil is now Sayvil: Arguments supporting: > Name, first. Attitude, second. Third, this slip: Gwena says: > "Vanyel and Sayv--Sail had too much on their minds to give > descriptions of where they'd been."-Winds of Change, pg24. > Gwena obviosly slipped there, using her currently familiar > name to refer to this former Herald turned Companion. > Thoughts? Gwena's slip is the most substantial bit of evidence, IMO. Remember that we have no idea how Companions get their names, how common the above names are, etc., so the similarities between names are suggestive, but no more. -jenneke jsb-+AT+-phantom.com new .sig in development ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 22:50:52 -0500 (EST) From: Absolut Flaming To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Two things Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Nov 1995 rubin-+AT+-cent.com wrote: > A: What does QED stand for? It is an abbreviation for Quod Erat Demonstratum = That which was to be demonstrated. (My latin spelling and inflection/declensions may be off, but that is the gist of it.) Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 22:46:02 -0600 (CST) From: dkn161-+AT+-lulu.acns.nwu.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Two things Message-ID: <199511190446.AA230056362-+AT+-lulu.acns.nwu.edu> Why is your email name absolutely flaming? My reference to that might not be correct..... Sincerely, Danny ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 22:54:38 -0600 (CST) From: dkn161-+AT+-lulu.acns.nwu.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mindspeaking, Companions, and all that jazz.... Message-ID: <199511190454.AA234516878-+AT+-lulu.acns.nwu.edu> Hi, I just read your message and even though some of the references are a bit complicated I was wondering if you or anyone else had ever begun a discussion on the nature of mindmagic in Misty's book versus how telepathy/empathy etc. is handled in other sci-fi fantasy novels. Because there is such a wealth of references outside the lackey books, I believe that alot of revealing differences and similarities might help you answer your question and I would be interested in starting such a discussion. Later, Danny ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 21:21:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristin A. Ruhle" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 239 Message-ID: <199511190521.AA10200-+AT+-foxtrot.rahul.net> > > Jenneke (I think...correct me if I'm wrong (as I probably am)) > while giving her extremely accurate quotes to back up the point that yes, > Vanyel did have _some_ Healing power, mentioned something Vanyel thought to > himself: 'If he isn't sick by nightfall, I'll eat my lute.' Now, as I had > just had a new iniate to Misty's novels read the lyrics to "A Dark and > Stormy Night" brought that song to my mind. What if, just maybe, during his > rare free time, Vanyel wrote lyrics. And just maybe, after he died, someone > found these (Stefen? Maybe?), cleaned them up, and published them! Maybe "A > Dark and Stormy Night" was written by Vanyel. Or maybe Misty just said it > for no reason whatsoever. It would be a neat crackpot idea, though... I think it's just coincidence...It's hinted in Oathbreakers that the woman who "ate her lute" was the sister of the lady Leslac was married to. (Probably Leslac wrote the song!) I think the notes in the Heralds Harpers and Havoc songbook (avail from Firebird) say something similar. That would put the date of the song a lot close to Talia. Besides, it's stated explicitly that Vanyel *doesn't* compose songs - if he did, he'd have been admitted to Bardic as a minstrel back when he was first sent to Savil. Kristin Ruhle kristin-+AT+-rahul.net ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 240 *********************************