MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 244 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Fertility of companions by Mikkel Larsen 2) Re: Fertility of companions by mikkell-+AT+-cybernet.dk (Mikkel Larsen) 3) Elves by duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) 4) Elves by Karieva-+AT+-aol.com 5) Re: Elves... by CHONNI 6) Re: Elves... by CHONNI 7) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 242 by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 8) final call for mailing lists & elves by CHONNI 9) Re: ML digests 241/2 -new threads by Julie Vaux 10) Re: Portable music by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 20:25:36 +0100 From: Mikkel Larsen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fertility of companions Message-ID: <9511221928.msg.aa19320-+AT+-relay-3.mail.demon.net> David Adams wrote >My friend, however, is convinced that companions are sterile. I cannot for the >life of me find any reference to this. Have I missed something or is he as nuts >as I think he is? > >Dave I tkink he is nuts too, how about Magic's Promise page 136, we are told in a discussion between Jervis, Radevel, Savil and Vanyel that 'Fandes got two foals named Dancer and Megwyn. Anyway, how would Heralds be reborn as Companions if they didn't get born??? The groveborn are the only Companions who aren't born. Mikkel Larsen (mikkell-+AT+-cybernet.dk) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 21:11:15 +0100 From: mikkell-+AT+-cybernet.dk (Mikkel Larsen) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fertility of companions Message-ID: <9511222012.AA24946-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> David Adams wrote >He still won't admit that he was wrong. He will conceed that maybe >they breed but that ML has made it abundantly clear that they are >nearly sterile and that foaling is a rare thing. I think he needs a >kick in the head...whatever...doesn't matter. I would be interested in hearing about any of those "abundantly clear" passages in the Velgarth books as I can't think of any. If he can't - then kick him once for me too. Mikkel Larsen (mikkell-+AT+-cybernet.dk) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 15:18:28 -0500 From: duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Elves Message-ID: <199511222018.PAA09953-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> On the current suggestions for good elves: Some of the first elves I read about were CJ Cherry's, in _The Tree of Swords and Jewels_ (or something to that effect). The SF book club bundles two of the books together, and calls them _Arafel's Saga_, I believe. I really enjoyed the two books because the elves weren't just "humans with pointy ears," and I think that they make a good weekend read. To those who will stuff themselves silly on turkey tomorrow, Happy Thanksgiving! Stacy Hunt DuVall duvall.23-+AT+-osu.edu "Penfold, shush!" ---Dangermouse ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:11:48 -0500 From: Karieva-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Elves Message-ID: <951122171146_87790774-+AT+-mail06.mail.aol.com> >>I loved the Gossamer Axe! But, on the elves being different, in >>Strands of Sunlight humans turn elven and in the Axe elves turn >>human... I think they have more in common than appears at first >>glance. >> -Seanna I've never looked at it that way. But I guess it's pretty accurate - in Strands the elves help us learn to "pick up the pieces," and in Axe a human goes to live with the sidhe to help them do the same thing. I will say that the elves in Strands have helped me pick myself up in the same way they helped Myria in Starlight - and with much of the same advice... How many folks on here are into the elf thing?? Why?? and How do you 'follow' them? (Yes, I'll keep track of the answers... Does this make it a poll?) Karieva-+AT+-aol ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 14:39:31 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elves... Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Nov 1995, Richard Crawford wrote: > There's also a book called _The Iron Dragon's Daughter_ by Michael Swanwick > which takes place in an industrial fantasy world. The protagonist works in > a dragon manufacturing plant, and the Elves there are a really nasty lot who > have enslaved just about everyone else and spend most of their time warring > against each other. Not quite the happy frolicking elves in the woods... Well, I did read that book, and well, it wasn't all that great, IMHO. Also, it's questionable if the whole fantasy realm was real, or just where the girl's mind went while she was in a coma...The elves weren't so much bad, as much as they were proto-humans with no sympathy for their workers. *********************************************************************** -Chonni Brightwolf (Katherine Moll, student) University College of the Cariboo British Columbia, CANADA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 14:44:56 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elves... Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Nov 1995, Anne Cross wrote: > On Wed, 22 Nov 1995, Jerry Cullingford wrote: > > And you'll never look at Morris dancers quite the same way ever again, > > either :-). > > Hey! I -am- a Morris Dancer and I resemble that remark! what is a Morris Dancer???? *********************************************************************** -Chonni Brightwolf (Katherine Moll, student) University College of the Cariboo British Columbia, CANADA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 23:13:34 -0500 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 242 Message-ID: <951122231332_114416086-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 95-11-22 06:40:56 EST, you write: >Apologies to anyone who's been experiencing mail delays from here over the >past few days. The reason has been that AOL's mail system appears to have >gone >completely tits-up (anyone on AOL who receives this and can send me any >information as to what the hell _is_ going on there would be popular). Hence >I came in yesterday morning to find approximately 2000 mail messages sitting >here and waiting to go out, from Friday onwards. Most of 'em going to AOL. >Hmm. > >The consequence of this has also been the mail spool filling up with 'Cannot >deliver message for three days' mail. Thank you, AOL. > >Things should be back to semi-normal quite shortly. I hope. > >Cheers > >Mel. > > Can't say that I am aware of any problem. But then one never knows...... I won't even comment on the normal thing...........................! Warm Breezes. Matt J ****************************************************************************** ************************ Why do out lovers get better looking and richer after they dump us? -- Michele Fisher. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 20:42:01 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey list Subject: final call for mailing lists & elves Message-ID: I'll be compiling all the lists and plan on posting them Nov.29th, a tuesday?, so this is your last call! Sort of like in a bar... Re: elves. I like them in *some* stories (usually my own, which don't really count ), but I prefer ones that aren't too human like, but not so alien I can't feel for them. My favourite was a book I read in grade 8 (10ish years ago) that was about a woman who is sent as a ???governess??? to a country manor (supposedly where Elizabeth the 1st stayed when Mary exiled her to the countryside), meets dark, gloomy & hansome men, is taken by the sidhe & learns how to `walk properly'. Naturally, I've forgotten the name of it, as well as the author, so if anyone knows what I'm talking about, EMAIL ME!!!! Please?? I think the title of the book is also the name of the manor, if that helps anyone. *********************************************************************** * Why would I want my mind back? Who knows where it's been! * *---------------------------------------------------------------------* **************************** Chonni Brightwolf************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 15:47:56 +1100 (EST) From: Julie Vaux To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ML digests 241/2 -new threads Message-ID: <199511230447.PAA02755-+AT+-metz.une.edu.au> In Response to new threads started in digests 241 and 242 Three subjects will be covered - Telepathy and Language Change, "Knights" Instrumental Music One - I mentioned Latin as an example of a "mother" tongue or root langauge that would be fairly familiar. Another examples could be Vedic Sanskrit or the evolution of Siouan ie ancestral Natoka splitting into Lakota/Datoka and the more southern dialects like mmm I think Osage is Siouan? A side note on French - read Elcock's history of romance languages - I wouldnt myself date Old French back to 500 AD - at that time the linguistic situation in France would have been this - "cymric" in "Little Britian or Armorica , pockets of Gallic speakers in rural areas, Greek speakers in several of the southern cities - Ausonius had relatives who knew Greek, as well as gallic or gaulish, and a mixture of "official" Latin plus Vulgar and Late Latin and lastly many areas of speakers of germanic dialects - moreso in the north - "frankish". Literacy can slow down linguistic change if there is a common curriculum based on one major dialect which is similar to that spoken by the people - Koine Greek! Tribal or Low tech cultures can have language changes -Siouan? The absence of rapid technological changes didnt hinder whatever the ancestral form of Pama-Ngyungan was from splitting into the several hundred languages and dialects spoken by the aborigines - and to make up for a harsh environment with a flood fire drought cycle bad for farming many tribes or nations went in for riverine fishfarming with removable netting set into permanent stone channels. Yes the first australians did c build things - unfortunately this went unnoticed since many of the built fishtraps or stone circles for bora rings were vandalized for fencing material for settlers !!! On the issue of Elspeth speaking Shin'a'nain but having to learn Tayle'dras - she may have never heard Tayledras or read it and when learning Shinanain she had the advantages of native or near native speakers - one of Kethry's cousins to drill her on the pronounciation and explain any existing written notes in the collegium library - perhaps the differences between Tayledras and Shinanain are largely tonal or phonological - the vocabularies are similar but she may have had trouble with tone patterns??? One of the best suggestions is the one about the prescence of the swordsworn - even if a word died out if a shaman or sword sworn had questions about an old spell or ritual they could literally consult whoever created it! "Knights" Knight does not automatically equal horseback warrior. There may be militant orders on Velgarth but how do they differ from the European models we are similar with - this is one of the great things about ML's Velgarth - she does not just copy western europe in an earlier period - there's good solid world building! The swordsworn do give oaths and vows given to the goddess but a whole elaborated code of honor??? With magicians available for shielding armor piercing weapons would be limited - no need for full plate armour??? I think the heavier war horses being bred in vanyel's time were more for a combination of endurance and speed ? A good solid trainable steed with a smooth gait , reasonable speed but the strength to carry a fighter's pack of weapons behind the saddle? Instrumental Music - a question was raised about the lack of "pure" instrumental music and orchestral settings and compositions in Valdemar??? Maybe the existence of the Bardic Gift favors individual performers? - this emphasis on solos may be detering composers for doing music for instruments alone and plus ... also the Collegium training system for both bards, ministrels and "blues" stresses language and voice training, two or three PORTABLE instruments and memorizing older material??? One notes despite the technology being available there are no large or portable organs we know of ... so far on Velgarth? Are there large freestanding harps, cellos, bass violin equivalents or the equivalents of recorder suites or groups with recorders covering the whole range from treble to bass??? Even the long necked alto lute of the baroque may be rare outside courts since it would be awkward to carry on horseback? The Valdemarans at least seem to prefer small easily portable instruments - there seems to be a small mandolin/lute but no large bass/alto equivalent . I would not however be the least bit surprised to discover the Karseans with their religious choirs have developed organs of some sort since they like large temples whereas most of the other religions we've seen so far favor smaller chapels with large temples only in major cities? well this is getting long so thats all for now - Julie Vaux have a pleasant Thanksgiving - !!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 08:56:34 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Portable music Message-ID: <9511230856.AA08977-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> Julie Vaux writes: > and plus ... also the Collegium training system for both bards, > ministrels and "blues" stresses language and voice training, two or > three PORTABLE instruments and memorizing older material??? > > The Valdemarans at least seem to prefer small easily portable > instruments - there seems to be a small mandolin/lute but no > large bass/alto equivalent . Hmm. I don't think we can really tell from what we've seen so far - after all, heralds and wandering minstrels are more or less forced into using easily portable stuff. Have we seen much (any?) formal music or detailed training to decide whether there aren't less portable instruments - or is it just that we haven't seen any yet? (which wouldn't be too surprising - the only examples I can think of offhand are Talia and Jadus playing for the servants, Talia and Kris on the road, Vanyel on the road, and Stefen doing background music - oh, and the instrument maker at the fair.) -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 244 *********************************