MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 249 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Elves... by owl 2) Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility by "Sanna Koulu" 3) Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 4) Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 5) Re: settling an old dispute by Catherine Osborne 6) that quote I promised by Catherine Osborne 7) Re: Heralds and Healers by Irene Chen 8) Darkwind by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 9) Re: settling an old dispute by Heather Mina 10) Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility by Heather Mina 11) Re: Darkwind by Heather Mina 12) Re: Heralds and Healers by Gyrfalcon 13) Re: settling an old dispute by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 14) Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 15) Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 16) Re: Heralds and Healers by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 17) Introduction by PS9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu 18) Shavri as King's Own, gender pairings, and more... by "Starhawk" 19) Re: Heralds and Healers by Fiona Graham 20) Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility by mikkell-+AT+-cybernet.dk (Mikkel Larsen) 21) Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility by Absolut Flaming 22) RE: Shavri as King's Own, gender pairings, and more... by Fiona Graham 23) Re: Battle Dawn by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 00:38:56 EST From: owl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elves... Message-ID: <8148DD59B5-+AT+-main.rmwc.edu> Another good book about Seilighe and Unseilighe elves is "War for/of the Oaks" by Emma Bull. It's hard to find--I think that it may be out of print, but I really enjoyed it. It involves a Pouka and a rock band. If you like the way Prince (the artist formerly known as) looks, you'll enjoy the Pouka. The elves aren't just sweetness and light, there is a lot of ambiguity among both the Seilighe and Unseiligh elves. By the way, does anyone else on this list find the Carolan tune "Sheebeg, Sheemore" to be incredibly happy-go-lucky for a song about two fairy hills slaughtering each other? My roomie and I asked an innocent (hah!) hallmate to describe what she thought the song was about and she immediately said "children playing". I find it hard to believe Kory feeling sad at this song, even with all of its negative connotations for him (Summoned to Tourney). Snickering perhaps, but sad? Its hard for me to see. Owl, "I can resist everything except temptation" Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 11:17:58 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility Message-ID: I was just leafing through old postings, and started thinking of Shavri's bonding. WHY was it weaker than other H-C bonds? After all, Shavri was an accomplished Mindspeaker. Is it because she was a Healer? But why would that mean her bonding is weaker? After all, Empathy is a Healing Gift, and Talia's bonding was strong. Is it because Taver (?) knew Shavri would follow her lifebonded to death, and therefore didn't bond as strongly... the same as unbonded Choosings, only not so extreme... So, I came up with a question: why don't the Companions choose Healers or people with Gifts from the Healing family? It's been stated that it's because Healers are needed too much to waste them as Heralds... but think how useful a Herald-Healer would be! Heralds get bashed all the time, sometimes seriously injured; a Herald-Healer would understand those crazies much better, and so would be more efficient in healing both body, and soul and mind. And a Herald- Healer would have the Companion -> better mobility, stabler of mind, and it would strengthen the Gifts. So why not? Another observation: Have you noticed that women much oftener have Healing Gifts than men on Velgarth? It's said in AotQ that 2/3 of the Heralds are male, and 2/3 of the Healers female (well, basically). So why? And what does it mean? Is it just because Misty sees the Healing Gifts (Empathy, body, mind and soul Healing, and Healing the land. Are there others? Oh yeah, pain-killing too) as more feminine than say the Mage-Gift or Firestarting, which are rather destructive Gifts? I don't really like this explanation, though. Anybody have any others? (Among other things, this means that two thirds of the Companions are male, too. And since the size of the female population is a much more important curb on birth rates than the amount of males, it would mean female Companions would have to "play it safer", because otherwise there would be no new foaled Companions (and if Companions suddenly started growing on trees, people would definitely notice they aren't just horses...). Btw, there's kind of evidence for the reincar- nation theory: Companions and humans have the same gestation period (Arrow's Flight) Another thought: is it all the GB who are super- fertile, or just the MOC? Well, either way, the MOC is the only GB around most of the time. Why is he super-fertile? After all, it doesn't make much difference on the Companion birth rates, so is it just a side effect?) -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 10:07:46 GMT From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility Message-ID: <9511281007.AA21697-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Seanna said: [I don't have any good answers for the first batch of questions, so I'll snip that part] > (Among other things, this means that two thirds of the Companions are > male, too. And since the size of the female population is a much more > important curb on birth rates than the amount of males, it would mean > female Companions would have to "play it safer", because otherwise > there would be no new foaled Companions (and if Companions suddenly > started growing on trees, people would definitely notice they aren't > just horses...). Btw, there's kind of evidence for the reincar- > nation theory: Companions and humans have the same gestation period > (Arrow's Flight) Hmm, yes, Companions growing on trees could be kind of dangerous. Especially when they ripened *grin*. I'm presuming you're thinking of the reincarnation aspect when you say that two-thirds of the Companions are male? Maybe the female souls come round more often? Two-thirds of the available pool might be male, though. (I'm using 'soul' to indicate the part of one which, in the Velgarthian universe, goes on to the Havens, reincarnates as a Companion, keeps an eye on the Forest of Sorrows, whatever; I don't have another word to hand.) Perhaps some of the male souls are reincarnated as female Companions? Could be entertaining :) Hmmm. Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 10:21:15 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility Message-ID: <9511281021.AA01593-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> The Vrondi tell me Sanna wrote: > Heralds... but think how useful a Herald-Healer would be! Heralds get > bashed all the time, sometimes seriously injured; a Herald-Healer > would understand those crazies much better, and so would be more > efficient in healing both body, and soul and mind. And a Herald- > Healer would have the Companion -> better mobility, stabler of mind, > and it would strengthen the Gifts. So why not? Presumably, because there aren't enough healers to go around - I've always had the impression that healers - and especially the top-rank healers - wouldn't have the time for heralding as well as healing; but the mobility/ gift boosting aspect could be incredibly useful. > Another thought: is it all the GB who are super- fertile, or just the > MOC? Well, either way, the MOC is the only GB around most of the > time. Why is he super-fertile? After all, it doesn't make much > difference on the Companion birth rates, so is it just a side effect?) Again, though I don't have any hard evidence to support it, I'd assumed that he *could* make a significant difference, and that this may be one way that the powers behind the companions can fine-tune the number of new companions to meet anticipated future needs without being too obvious about it. -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 07:45:32 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: settling an old dispute Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Nov 1995, Mikkel Larsen wrote: > I have always thought that Nerya is the fourteenyear old niece who Tashir is > interested in. But with Vanyel's knowledge of human beings and Empathy... Would he really, when Tashir has just evinced, if not openly (Van was *feeling* what Tashir's emotions were about his niece; T. didn't necessarily tell him) the first sign of *normal* sexual behavior, sort of push it on Tashir that he (Tashir) should be doing stuff with this girl? For those who don't have their books with them... ;) "'Go to bed, Tashir," Vanyel said, trying to make his tones as kindly as he could. 'You go have another chat with Jervis. Go riding with Nerya. Try making some friends around the Reach. We'll talk about this later.' And he shut the door on him, softly but firmly." Also, this may seem nebulous, but Nerya doesn't sound like any other Velgarthian human name I've ever heard, and it does sort of remind me of a Companion. I\/ Catherine Osborne "After great pain, I\/ Sundancer a formal feeling comes." I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu --Emily Dickinson I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 07:51:09 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes lackey list Subject: that quote I promised Message-ID: sorry for the double-posting so early in the morning ;) but it seemed less confusing this way. This is *not* a spoiler post, but it does contain a quote from Storm Rising. Suffice it to say: some people are about to make a long journey. They're not sure if the method they're using to get there will work to bring them back to Haven. Someone says: "Well, we can always walk home again." ":Not precisely: Heads snapped up all over the group, as even those who did not have Mindspeech reacted to that voice in their heads. A Companion stallion emerged from the trees to their left, leading a group of four more, all of them young [stuff about lovely Com's. snipped] :Rolan would like you to relay the rest, Karal,: Florian said, as he nudged Karal's shoulder with his nose. :He can Mindspeak with anyone he wishes to, but it takes a lot of effort, and this will be faster.:" This settles quite a few little arguments, no? ;) I\/ Catherine Osborne "After great pain, I\/ Sundancer a formal feeling comes." I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu --Emily Dickinson I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 08:46:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Irene Chen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds and Healers Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Nov 1995, Sanna Koulu wrote: > So, I came up with a question: why don't the Companions choose > Healers or people with Gifts from the Healing family? It's been Maybe Healers aren't really equipped to defend themselves well; although they may be good in teams or for specialized purposes, if they don't have any other gifts, they would probably be pretty easy to pick off. fair skies Irene ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 7:25:19 -0700 (MST) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Darkwind Message-ID: <951128072519.22422d7b-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> I admit this is an older post, but I did want to respond to it. >> Btw, what do you think of the Tayledras concepts of sexuality? Misty >> doesn't really tell us anything of them, but there's the word >> shay'a'chern, meaning "one whose lover is like self" (Note the >> present tense). >> I think this could mean that people are shay'a'chern if they _right >> then_ have a lover of the same sex, and would only be "straight" (I >> wonder what the Tayledras term for that is?) if they had an opposite- >> sex lover at the moment. The rest of the time they wouldn't be either, >> just themselves. In such an environment, there wouldn't be any >> "bisexuality", unless someone had two lovers of different sexes at >> generally the same time. Does that sound too spaced? >> >> -Seanna Kerry. replies: >Seanna, that's brilliant! It's one of the nicest ideas I've heard in >some time. Certainly people still fall at either end of the spectrum >(Firesong being exclusively 'gay', Darkwind being exclusively 'straight') >but it'd replace labels with people, which IMO is a healthy thing. >Rather than labelling people, it describes situations.. I like it. > I think there's still be 'bisexual' situations (heh, not people) >given the Tayle'dras propensity for 'mating circles'. :) I must disagree somewhat. I thought it was pretty clearly stated that if Darkwind wasn't so enamored with Elspeth at that time, and didn't instantly realize how his taking up with Firesong would affect her, Darkwind would have rapidly allowed Firesong to gift him with a feather. True, Darkwind prefers female companionship, but he grew up in a culture of bisexuality (at least that's the way it looks to me) and therefore wouldn't think that much about trading feathers with Firesong, and at a later time trading feathers with Elspeth. Anyone agree with me, or do I need to go back and read that piece again? Certainly Elspeth believed that Darkwind might ... get together with Firesong. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 09:40:39 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: settling an old dispute Message-ID: <9511281442.AA29364-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> >On Mon, 27 Nov 1995, Mikkel Larsen wrote: > >> I have always thought that Nerya is the fourteenyear old niece who Tashir is >> interested in. At 01:28 PM 11/28/95 GMT, Catherine wrote: >But with Vanyel's knowledge of human beings and Empathy... Would >he really, when Tashir has just evinced, if not openly (Van was *feeling* >what Tashir's emotions were about his niece; T. didn't necessarily tell >him) the first sign of *normal* sexual behavior, sort of push it on >Tashir that he (Tashir) should be doing stuff with this girl? <<< snipped book quotation >>> >Also, this may seem nebulous, but Nerya doesn't sound like any other >Velgarthian human name I've ever heard, and it does sort of remind me of >a Companion. Not to mention that this all happened in the middle of the night. Going for a ride with a 14-year-old niece in the middle of the night is probably not something the menfolk at Forst Reach would be too happy about. I always assumed that this was Tashir's Companion's name, too. +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Heather L. Mina | CAUTION: The Surgeon General | | hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu | has found that exposure to | | heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com | high amounts of e-mail can be| | | hazardous to your health. | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 09:40:38 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility Message-ID: <9511281442.AA29365-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Seanna writes about Heralds and the Healing Gift: >So, I came up with a question: why don't the Companions choose >Healers or people with Gifts from the Healing family? It's been >stated that it's because Healers are needed too much to waste them as >Heralds... but think how useful a Herald-Healer would be! Heralds get >bashed all the time, sometimes seriously injured; a Herald-Healer >would understand those crazies much better, and so would be more >efficient in healing both body, and soul and mind. And a Herald- >Healer would have the Companion -> better mobility, stabler of mind, >and it would strengthen the Gifts. So why not? A Herald-Healer could be a very dangerous proposition. Heralds are sworn to protect Valdemar above all else. Healers are sworn to protect human life. Sometimes these two could conflict, in a situation which would tear the Herald-Healer apart. For example, a Herald-Healer on circuit must decide between Healing a family who is deathly ill (which would drain the Herald of most of his or her energy) or chasing down some bandits who have been threatening a town for months (which might not leave enough time for coming back to the sick family). A non-Healer would try to send a message to the nearest known Healers and then chase down the bandits. A Healer *must* try to save the family, even if this might be the only good opportunity to bring the bandits to justice. Seanna writes about gender and Gifts: >Another observation: Have you noticed that women much oftener have >Healing Gifts than men on Velgarth? It's said in AotQ that 2/3 of the >Heralds are male, and 2/3 of the Healers female (well, basically). So >why? And what does it mean? Is it just because Misty sees the Healing >Gifts (Empathy, body, mind and soul Healing, and Healing the land. >Are there others? Oh yeah, pain-killing too) as more feminine than >say the Mage-Gift or Firestarting, which are rather destructive >Gifts? I don't really like this explanation, though. Anybody have any >others? I think that this probably is a side effect of Misty's view of the world. I don't know much about her childhood and family background, but I would bet that she had a nurturing mother who kissed her skinned knees to make them all better, and a father more rooted in the physical world of going to work, mowing the lawn, and all that stuff. I tend to associate healing and easing pain with femininity - I am grown with children of my own, but when I have the flu, I want my mommy to make me chicken soup and tuck me into bed. And I tend to associate things like starting campfires and mowing the lawn with masculinity - in spite of the fact that these are things I do myself. Plus, the job of a Herald is tough work - running around Valdemar, physical fighting and exertion, being an authority figure. Let's face it, men are physically suited to many of the tasks Heralds regularly perform, probably better suited than women. (Now, this is not to say that I don't think women can do these things, just that *in general* I think the physiology of men lends them more to these tasks than the physiology of women does). Plus, many of the places these Heralds must go are patriarchal in nature (the Holderkin for sure!), and the people in those places might not give the instant respect and trust to a female Herald. I know I'm probably going to get some very unhappy comments about this one. But before you write back, please consider your own basic assumptions about gender roles (not the things you say to other people, but your deep-down gut feelings) and how you came to have those assumptions. Seanna writes about Companions and breeding: >(Among other things, this means that two thirds of the Companions are >male, too. And since the size of the female population is a much more >important curb on birth rates than the amount of males, it would mean >female Companions would have to "play it safer", because otherwise >there would be no new foaled Companions (and if Companions suddenly >started growing on trees, people would definitely notice they aren't >just horses...). Btw, there's kind of evidence for the reincar- >nation theory: Companions and humans have the same gestation period >(Arrow's Flight) Can you please give a textual reference for 2/3 of the Companions being male? Remember that the Karsite envoy was surprised not at the proportion of Companion males to females, but at the fact that the male Companions were not gelded. Since Companions are intelligent, thinking beings (just as we are), they can curb their own birth rate (just as we do). But the general impression I get from reading is that Companions are pretty evenly distributed between females and males. >Another thought: is it all the GB who are super- fertile, or just the >MOC? Well, either way, the MOC is the only GB around most of the >time. Why is he super-fertile? After all, it doesn't make much >difference on the Companion birth rates, so is it just a side effect?) I think that the fertility issue only comes in with respect to Rolan, but doesn't Talia say something to the effect of "Cymry forgot about the amazing fertility of Grove-Born Companions, especially the Companion of the Monarch's Own." << This is not a direct quote - can someone look it up for me? >> Since Grove-Born Companions seem to be more powerful in many ways than their natural-born counterparts (well, as natural-born as any Companion can be), it is reasonable that they would be more fertile than other Companions as well. After all, if natural selection and genetics hold true in Velgarth, it makes sense for the strongest Companions to be the most fertile. The foals from a GB Companion might have stronger physical and magical abilities than foals from non-GB matings. It's fun to think about. +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Heather L. Mina | CAUTION: The Surgeon General | | hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu | has found that exposure to | | heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com | high amounts of e-mail can be| | | hazardous to your health. | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 10:05:27 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Darkwind Message-ID: <9511281507.AA00085-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> << earlier snippets about sexuality and the Tayledras deleted >>> Starwolf replies: >I must disagree somewhat. I thought it was pretty clearly stated that >if Darkwind wasn't so enamored with Elspeth at that time, and didn't >instantly realize how his taking up with Firesong would affect her, >Darkwind would have rapidly allowed Firesong to gift him with a feather. >True, Darkwind prefers female companionship, but he grew up in a culture >of bisexuality (at least that's the way it looks to me) and therefore >wouldn't think that much about trading feathers with Firesong, and at >a later time trading feathers with Elspeth. Anyone agree with me, or >do I need to go back and read that piece again? Certainly Elspeth believed >that Darkwind might ... get together with Firesong. I got the impression that Darkwind was definitely not interested in Firesong, and not just because he was fond of Elspeth. But I may be wrong. Quotations, anyone? Moreover, I would not describe the Tayledras as a "culture of bisexuality", but a culture of open sexuality. The former implies that the majority of the Tayledras are bisexual (which I don't think can be textually proven either way), and the latter that homo/hetero/bi just is not an issue (which I think might be provable from the text). While we all grin about the assumptions that the Tayledras just drop their pants when and where they please, all of the Tayledras work hard to accomplish their goal of Healing the land of the damage done in the Mage Wars. One of the ways in which the Tayledras "unwind" is to celebrate life (especially when they live in a very dangerous part of the world, and probably have a higher mortality rate than city-dwellers), which they do very freely, as long as all participants are in consent, regardless of gender. Besides, growing up in a culture of bisexuality does not make one bisexual (although it would probably make you feel guilty about being exclusively homosexual or heterosexual), no more than growing up in a culture of heterosexuality (as most of us have) makes one heterosexual. Don't you agree? Later - Heather +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Heather L. Mina | CAUTION: The Surgeon General | | hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu | has found that exposure to | | heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com | high amounts of e-mail can be| | | hazardous to your health. | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 10:14:03 -0500 (EST) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds and Healers Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Nov 1995, Irene Chen wrote: On Tue, 28 Nov 1995, Sanna Koulu wrote: > So, I came up with a question: why don't the Companions choose > Healers or people with Gifts from the Healing family? It's been Somewhere in one of the Arrows (Me-+AT+-school Books-+AT+-somewhere) it's mentioned that the Companions don't Choose those with healing Gifts because they're needed more as healers. And, IIRC, they sometimes do choose Healers, Shavri was Randale's MO and was a healer (in LHM). So it does happen, and it's not unheard of but it is rare. There's something about healers thinking that a little selfishness is good for the spirit and that going completely sideways to Herald mentality. My .02, --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 15:41:23 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: settling an old dispute Message-ID: <9511281541.AA09350-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> Heather writes: > Not to mention that this all happened in the middle of the night. Going for > a ride with a 14-year-old niece in the middle of the night is probably not > something the menfolk at Forst Reach would be too happy about. > > I always assumed that this was Tashir's Companion's name, too. Hmm; I don't think Vanyel was talking do-it-right-this-minute, though - "make some friends around the Reach" sounds a bit more long term to me, as do the other things. More along the lines of "Hang around with other people for a while before deciding what you want" :-). -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 15:48:53 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility Message-ID: <9511281549.AA09572-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > The > foals from a GB Companion might have stronger physical and magical abilities > than foals from non-GB matings. It's fun to think about. ..Especially if you start comparing GB companions to USA companions :-) :-). [Can you imagine Gryphons landing at Heathrow?]. We now return you to the serious discussion... :-). -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 15:59:04 GMT From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility Message-ID: <9511281559.AA01973-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Heather said: [lots of good stuff snipped] > Plus, the job of a Herald is tough work - running around Valdemar, physical > fighting and exertion, being an authority figure. Let's face it, men are > physically suited to many of the tasks Heralds regularly perform, probably > better suited than women. (Now, this is not to say that I don't think women > can do these things, just that *in general* I think the physiology of men > lends them more to these tasks than the physiology of women does). Plus, > many of the places these Heralds must go are patriarchal in nature (the > Holderkin for sure!), and the people in those places might not give the > instant respect and trust to a female Herald. > While I agree with you about the problems faced by female Heralds having to deal with patriarchal societies, I'm not so sure about the first part there, specifically the Herald's job. Most of the time, the Heralds seem to be patrolling rather than fighting, much like the police of today. Many, if not most, of the hazards they face are natural (snowstorms, landslips) rather than man-made, which means that men aren't going to have as much of an obvious advantage. (I'll concede that they have some advantage by generally being taller and broader, but your average Herald, male or female, ought to be pretty damn fit after five years at Haven; that would even things out a bit.) Whether men would have an advantage in physical fighting probably depends on how down&dirty it gets. Back when I was still doing karate, the second-highest grade within our club (second dan) was female, and quite slightly built. You tangled with her at your peril, however :) In the population at large, the average woman will do less well at these things than the average man. But the Heralds are necessarily a very selected population, and well-trained in fighting at that -- will the gap be that wide? > I know I'm probably going to get some very unhappy comments about this one. > But before you write back, please consider your own basic assumptions about > gender roles (not the things you say to other people, but your deep-down gut > feelings) and how you came to have those assumptions. *grin* I tend to get _very_ unhappy with anyone who tells me I cannot do something because I am female. Physical restrictions I can live with, because I am severely unfit and not built for many physical activities, but it's not because I'm female, it's because I'm very lazy :) If I'd listened to people telling me I couldn't do things because I was female, I'd have at least one less degree, and probably be in a very different job :) Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 17:46:28 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds and Healers Message-ID: <9511281746.AA11885-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> Mel writes: > Whether men would have an advantage in physical fighting probably depends on > how down&dirty it gets. Back when I was still doing karate, the second-highest > grade within our club (second dan) was female, and quite slightly built. You > tangled with her at your peril, however :) Interesting - I *think* a friend of mine (in the UK tang soo do (sp?) team) once said that a big skill difference can compensate for a size difference, but that size will dominate given similar skill - but it was some considerable time back, so I may have garbled it or got it backwards :-). I suspect a trained fighter would tend to beat an untrained civilian most of the time, regardless, but I'd hate to guess what would happen if both had at least the basic training to avoid "sucker" moves; I guess power and endurance become more significant when a quick conclusion is unlikely. >In the population at large, the average woman will do less well at these > things than the average man. But the Heralds are necessarily a very > selected population, and well-trained in fighting at that -- will the gap > be that wide? I suspect we can assume Misty thinks the answer is "No", otherwise we'd probably see a lot less female fighters - consider the shin'a'in and Kero's mercenaries - if the gap was significant, you wouldn't tend to see a noticeable number of long term female mercs. -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 12:40:48 CST From: PS9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <264EC8D47DB-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu> Hello! I thought I should introduce myself since I'm "listening in" on everyone's conversations, and I might even join in on one! I'm Stacey Paumen, and I'm a second-year student up here at Northland College in good-old Ashland Wisconsin. I'm going for a major in Biology and a minor in Environmental Studies. I'm taking chemistry right now, so you could consider me a chem person too. I'm mostly into Misty's Velgarth series, but I have seriously considered reading her other works as well. I'm also an Anne McCaffrey fan, and a Trekker, if that means anything here. Oh, and I'm originally from Monticello, MN, just northwest of the Twin Cities if anyone knows where that is(Monticello). Well, I'm off to Calculus II now, so I look forward to futher posts on these fascinating conversations. "Without darkness there can be no light" Stacey ps9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 14:00:17 EST From: "Starhawk" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Shavri as King's Own, gender pairings, and more... Message-ID: Hello folks! I haven't posted in a while, but now I'm going to do it with a vengence. :) BTW: Jerry, I think the only thing more amusing than Gryphons landing at Heathrow would be Gryphons attempting to land at DFW airport in Texas (Officially listed as one of the US's most confusing airports [and rightfully so]). I can hear the air traffic controllers (complete with Texas twang) now..."Uh, sir, we have a big bird of some sort circlin' the tower...." *giggle* > I was just leafing through old postings, and started thinking of > Shavri's bonding. WHY was it weaker than other H-C bonds? I always thought Shavri's Choosing was a weaker bond because of the reasons she was Chosen to be Monarch's Own, i.e. she was a healer as well as Randi's lifebonded. Talia, in contrast, was Chosen (I assume, this could be waaay off) partially because she could tame "the Brat," but also because she made a good confidant and advisor. Shavri, with her penchant for hysterics towards the end of Randi's reign (see the scene after Jisa gets married in Magic's Price) struck me as quite un-King's Own-like. Granted, viewing the situation dispassionately would have been difficult as it was her own daughter involved. But as King's Own, she should have at least made an attempt at neutrally viewing the situation as it impacted *Valdemar*, not just Randale. I may be treading dangerous waters here, but I didn't think Shavri made a very good King's Own at all. She seemed to serve more to keep Randi stable and functional, both emotionally and physically. But she didn't seem to keep Valdemar's interests as her first priority. Her focus was very narrow: keeping Randale functioning as King as long as possible. Don't get me wrong: her Lifebonded was dying and she had no idea why; it's very understandable that she was a little preoccupied. However, it did seem as though Van was carrying out more of the King's Own advising duties than Shavri was. He could see quite well (OK, granted, he had to be thwacked over the head with it by Jisa and Yfandes) and in an unbiased way that Jisa would make a good co-consort, and a wonderful King's Own. On the other hand, all Shavri could see was that her daughter had put herself into a situation she'd rather die than be in (i.e., in line to rule). And, to me, it always seemed that duty to Valdemar was to come before everything else: even duty of daughter to mother, as we saw in Winds of Fate. > (Among other things, this means that two thirds of the Companions are > male, too. Why? Because 2/3 of the Heralds are male? I don't think that's true. We see lots of male Herald/mare Companion (Skif and Cymery) and female herald/stallion Companion pairings (Talia and Rolan, Keren and [*blank on name*]) > Another thought: is it all the GB who are super- fertile, or just the > MOC? Well, either way, the MOC is the only GB around most of the > time. Why is he super-fertile? After all, it doesn't make much > difference on the Companion birth rates, so is it just a side effect?) Well, I don't know. Time shall tell if Gwena shows up to be super-fertile. (Truth be told, she seems a little prissy to me, so we may *never* find out.) Perhaps it's to keep the gene pool from stagnating? Zhai'helleva all! Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Don't don't tell me no/I want you to take my hand/Never ever let it go/Even if I make you mad/Darling every bit of love you give/You will get more back/If you believe it...You make me laugh like it's forever/And cry like I have never/You heal my pain.... -Sophie B. Hawkins, "Don't Don't Tell Me No" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 95 02:58:00 AST From: Fiona Graham To: mercedes-lackey Subject: Re: Heralds and Healers Message-ID: <30BB5C26-+AT+-msmail-gw.renre.bm> Gyrfalcon wrote: Somewhere in one of the Arrows (Me-+AT+-school Books-+AT+-somewhere) it's mentioned that the Companions don't Choose those with healing Gifts because they're needed more as healers. And, IIRC, they sometimes do choose Healers, Shavri was Randale's MO and was a healer (in LHM). So it does happen, and it's not unheard of but it is rare. There's something about healers thinking that a little selfishness is good for the spirit and that going completely sideways to Herald mentality. Hi all.. I just finished reading the LHM books again, and in Magic's Promise, it mentions that Shavri was chosen as Randale's MO, not because the two were already lifebonded, but because of her Healing talent. The Companions obviously knew the gravity of Randale's health, and this was one way of curbing it, and keeping his illness from being make public for quite some time. The book also stresses the rarity of a Healer being Chosen. bye Fiona fmg-+AT+-renre.bm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 20:13:02 +0100 From: mikkell-+AT+-cybernet.dk (Mikkel Larsen) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility Message-ID: <9511281915.AA08697-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Heather Mina wrote >I think that the fertility issue only comes in with respect to Rolan, but >doesn't Talia say something to the effect of "Cymry forgot about the amazing >fertility of Grove-Born Companions, especially the Companion of the >Monarch's Own." << This is not a direct quote - can someone look it up for >me? >> Page 274 Arrows Flight: "Every other stallion wasn't Roland," she said with a wry twist to her lips. "Serves you right, too, for not warning me, you smug sadist. Or don't you remember your history, and the extraordinary fertility of Grove stallions - particularly the Companion of the Queen's Own?" Sanna Koulu wrote >Btw, there's kind of evidence for the reincarnation theory: Companions and >humans have the same gestation period I wonder if the Companion foals are born more immature than ordinary foals, it is after all 53 days shorter gestation (yes, I had to look it up :-) ). Mikkel Larsen (mikkell-+AT+-cybernet.dk) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 14:36:39 -0500 (EST) From: Absolut Flaming To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Nov 1995, Sanna Koulu wrote: > (Among other things, this means that two thirds of the Companions are > male, too. And since the size of the female population is a much more Why would the gender of the heralds have anything to do with the gender of the companions? Male heralds don't necessarily have male companions nor do female heralds have female companions. Cases in point: Vanyel/Yfandes, Talia/Rolan, Skyff(sp?)/Cymry. kenny Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 95 04:07:00 AST From: Fiona Graham To: mercedes-lackey Subject: RE: Shavri as King's Own, gender pairings, and more... Message-ID: <30BB6C5C-+AT+-msmail-gw.renre.bm> Lyn wrote: "Shavri, with her penchant for hysterics towards the end of Randi's reign (see the scene after Jisa gets married in Magic's Price) struck me as quite un-King's Own-like. Granted, viewing the situation dispassionately would have been difficult as it was her own daughter involved. But as King's Own, she should have at least made an attempt at neutrally viewing the situation as it impacted *Valdemar*, not just Randale." Yep..I agree...in fact, there's a scene in Magic's Price, where Vanyel is talking with Yfandes. Both of them agree that Shavri was awful at all the diplomatic functions involved with being King's Own. That was the reason why Vanyel was assigned permanently to the Palace...he took over most of Shavri's duties so that she could be with Randale, and also because she was so blatantly unsuited to the position. She (I don't have my book) nearly caused quie a stir by seriously upsetting some Head of State-or-other...Vanyel managed to salvage the relationship "I may be treading dangerous waters here, but I didn't think Shavri made a very good King's Own at all." agreed.....she was lousy..Yfandes didn't waste any words expressing that to Vanyel in Magic's Price. "She seemed to serve more to keep Randi stable and functional, both emotionally and physically. " which is the reason she was chosen....mention of this is made in Magic's Promise....Vanyel had said he had almost expected to be Chosen, but understood why it was Shavri. Fiona fmg-+AT+-renre.bm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 15:21:56 -0500 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Battle Dawn Message-ID: <951128152156_118825153-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> Hi Folks! Catherine Osborne <> answered my plea: <> Um, I don't have the book . . .that's why I asked . . .::sniffle:: I lost them in my move, and haven't replaced them yet . . . . . sorry . . . ::making bambi eyes:: Rather than bug the whole list- would a kind soul perhaps email me the words so I stop driving the house nuts playing the song over and over to learn it? -grin- Thanks! Anne annes3832-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 249 *********************************