MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 251 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Shavri and Companions by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 2) Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility by "Sanna Koulu" 3) Re: Heralds and Healers by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 4) Re: order of writing by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 5) Re: Kerry! Question by "Sanna Koulu" 6) Re: names ending in 'a' by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 7) Re: order of writing by s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu 8) Re: order of writing by duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) 9) Re: Companions... a thought by Heather Mina 10) Re: order of writing by s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu 11) Re: order of writing by Tina Newman R 12) Re: Companions... a thought by Absolut Flaming 13) Re: order of writing by Absolut Flaming 14) A Whole Other Question -+AT+- Shavri by ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com 15) Re: Tashir's companion by "James T. Yardley" <73201.745-+AT+-compuserve.com> 16) Re: Tashir's companion (oops) by "James T. Yardley" <73201.745-+AT+-compuserve.com> 17) chemistry people by kcovert-+AT+-wvnvm.wvnet.edu (Kathy Covert) 18) Re: Shavri and Companions by Katherine M Brielmaier 19) Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility by Jean Morrill 20) Re: order of writing by jacob clifton 21) Re: Companions... a thought by jacob clifton 22) Re: order of writing by Tina Newman R 23) Re: Companions... a thought by Tina Newman R 24) stress and misty... by CHONNI 25) Re: Companions... a thought by Amy Mason ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Nov 95 16:13:57 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Shavri and Companions Message-ID: <9511290513.AA25205-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Katherine wrote: > re: Shavri and her abilities. I just reread LHM, and I found Shavri to be > annoying in the extreme. Her only quality for being Chosen, in my view, > was her Healing. Almost everything she did was calculated to benefit first > herself, then Randale, and only incidentally Valdemar. Mmm, I agree Shavri was an irritating character, but don't you think you're being just a tad bit harsh? I tend to agree with the healers in some cases - a little healthy selfishness isn't all that bad.. Being practical, if she does something for herself that happens to benefit Valdemar, does it benefit Valdemar any less than if she'd done it with her priorities reversed? (Sure there's a major moral difference, but practically?) > 1. She wouldn't marry Randale because she didn't want the responsibility > of rule...sure Randi needed to keep his availability open, but that seems > to be pretty secondary and minor in Shavri's point of view. And then she > went ballistic about Jisa marrying the Heir, without stopping to > consider how Jisa might feel, or that anybody could possibly *want* the > chance to rule. She knew she would be *bad* at ruling.. It's very easy for a parent to assume that children feel the same way they do - it's the classic parental expectations thing. It's a flaw, lotsa people have it, I'd even think that we all do to some extent. (Before people jump on me for that, consider - assuming you're a successful professional - won't you want your children to be professionals as well? Even if you see it as making sure they get all the opportunities you had, it's still an expectation..) > 2. She had Jisa because she really wanted a child--it just happened to > have the added benefit of keeping Randale available. Again.. wanting a child isn't a felony and if it means you get to stay with the partner you love (yes, love, she's lifebonded..) is that so bad? > 3. She opened up that full link between herself and Randale. Yes, it was > to benefit him, but really it was the only way to ensure that he would live > as long as possible, and then die and take her with him. She didn't want > to live without him, but she didn't want to die right away either, and it > seems to me this was the only way she could manage it. Lets see, (assuming we agree, though I don't completely) we've got: 1. I don't want to die. 2. I don't want my life-bonded to die. If something I can do can put off both of these without hurting someone else.. well.. Personally I didn't read it as such a self-centred attitude. There's a vast difference between knowing that your life-bonded will die & knowing that you won't want to live afterwards and saying "Ok.. I'm going to use my own life energies to delay his death and make his life more bearable in the meantime." That's courage. That's what a companion is going to take note of. Yes she's wildly terrified that Randale will die and leave her alone, but that's not selfish, going on in the face of such a fear is courage.. > I am pretty surprised at her Companion for choosing such a bad herald. > Thank (insert deity of your choice here) that Vanyel was around to take > care of things. She's not a bad herald. IMHO. Sure she's not a good MOH for the rest of the circle, but she's not a bad herald. She is a good MOH in that the primary problem Valdemar has is Randale's illness and she's dealing with that in the best way she knows. > And speaking of which (Choosing, I mean), another question. How do > Companions know whom to choose? Does the God(ess) or God(esse)s tell them > directly, or do they agree among themselves, or does each Companion get > programmed with their Herald from the very start, or what? Any > speculations? I subscribe to the 'something goes click' theory. :) Anyway, all very much IMHO and no offence meant. :) Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 10:16:00 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility Message-ID: <115BBE50307-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Mel wrote: > Seanna said: > [I don't have any good answers for the first batch of questions, so I'll > snip that part] > > > (Among other things, this means that two thirds of the Companions are > > male, too. And since the size of the female population is a much more > > important curb on birth rates than the amount of males, it would mean > > female Companions would have to "play it safer", because otherwise > > there would be no new foaled Companions (and if Companions suddenly > > started growing on trees, people would definitely notice they aren't > > just horses...). Btw, there's kind of evidence for the reincar- > > nation theory: Companions and humans have the same gestation period > > (Arrow's Flight) > > Hmm, yes, Companions growing on trees could be kind of dangerous. Especially > when they ripened *grin*. > > I'm presuming you're thinking of the reincarnation aspect when you say that > two-thirds of the Companions are male? Maybe the female souls come round more > often? Two-thirds of the available pool might be male, though. (I'm using > 'soul' to indicate the part of one which, in the Velgarthian universe, goes > on to the Havens, reincarnates as a Companion, keeps an eye on the Forest of > Sorrows, whatever; I don't have another word to hand.) Perhaps some of the > male souls are reincarnated as female Companions? Could be entertaining :) Aargh... . I can't believe I overlooked the fact that male Heralds could be reborn as female Companions. Terminal stupidity... But, though, we haven't yet seen any reincarnation into an opposite-sex body. Jaysen-Jasan, Savil-Sayvil, Lendel-Stefen (I think Vanyel could have lifebonded/fallen in love with a female, too...) Do you think souls are "sexed" - I mean, are previously male souls and previously female souls different in some way? I don't, but Misty seems to be writing that way... (Btw, I think Ma'ar choosing to steal only male bodies was just a personal prejudice) -Seanna PS. I don't see any reason why women would opt to be reincarnated into Companions more often... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 09:28:45 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds and Healers Message-ID: <9511290928.AA17113-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> Chonni writes: > Also, couldn't it be possible that the women in Misty's world be stronger > than ours? It's just an idea, that other writers use; Elizabeth Moon's > women seem to pretty much equal the men... It never occurred to me that (strength) was actually what was happening - I'd always assumed that, as in the Real World (tm) :-) there's a big overlap in abilities - couple that with changed cultural assumptions, so that the "only men/women do that" bias is absent, and you shouldn't need to posit any other changes - you should have enough of an ability overlap to produce the results naturally. -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 09:36:28 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: order of writing Message-ID: <9511290936.AA17171-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > > Anyone remember which order the Velgarth books were written in? > Arrows Last Herald Mage Vows and Honor By The Sword Winds Gryphon/Storms -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 11:47:51 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kerry! Question Message-ID: <11743DA3071-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Sorry for posting this on the list, btw. Kerry, the mail delivery system reports your host as unknown, so I can't email you. What's the proper adress? Or have the men in white come to take you away ? WTTW, Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 10:15:35 GMT From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: names ending in 'a' Message-ID: <9511291015.AA10929-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> jenneke said: > As for it not being the type of name associated with human females, how > can anyone tell? Savil, Treesa, Kylla, Melenna, Roshya, Serina, Ria, and > Lissa are all names associated just with the Ashkevron family. Why not > Nerya? Also, Tashir's Companion is male (_MPromise_, pg 148, "A *Herald*, > with a heavy carter's whip, *beating* the stallion until his skin came > away in strips and blood striped bright on the snowy hide, trying to > separate him from the boy."). Nerya *certainly* doesn't sound like any > Valdemaran or Companion male name that we've seen anywhere else... I once read an article about gender assumptions going with names, which focussed -- at least partially -- on the fact that names ending in '-a', in most languages, seem to be female. (Doubtless a linguist could tell you why this should be.) The article mentioned "Professor Bignumska", whose gender was not mentioned until later on in the article; the idea was to find out whether you'd assumed male (based on 'Professor'; sad to say, the default gender on that will be male for most people), or female from the name. I think it was probably a Douglas Hofstadter article.... ObMisty: er ... none. too early in the morning. :) Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 07:01:23 -0500 (EST) From: s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: order of writing Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, Jerry Cullingford wrote: > > > > Anyone remember which order the Velgarth books were written in? > > > > Arrows > Last Herald Mage > Vows and Honor > By The Sword > Winds > Gryphon/Storms > > -- > _|_ > / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) > \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) > \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) > thank you! I had wondered about that. Im rereading Arrows and noticed it seems kind of disjointed when it mentiones the vanyel stories. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:27:35 -0500 From: duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: order of writing Message-ID: <199511291327.IAA25108-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> ON Wed, Nov 29, Jerry wrote: >> Anyone remember which order the Velgarth books were written in? >> > >Arrows >Last Herald Mage >Vows and Honor >By The Sword >Winds >Gryphon/Storms > Hmmm, I always thought Vows and Honor came before LHM. Since I don't have my books available, though... Stacy Hunt DuVall, the Chemistry Avenger duvall.23-+AT+-osu.edu God runs electromagnetics by wave theory on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and the Devil runs them by quantum theory on Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. Sir William Bragg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 95 08:58:22 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Companions... a thought Message-ID: <9511291359.AA21748-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> At 02:25 AM 11/29/95 GMT, Meg wrote: >just another idea for you all to ponder: what would happen if a Companion mated >with a regular horse? Eeeeyeeew... yucky! (as my son would say, his little nose wrinkled up in distaste). Why would they *want* to? I mean, regular horses aren't very intelligent (in comparison with a Companion), they don't speak in your mind, and they're probably just dirty and smelly from living in a regular stable. +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Heather L. Mina | CAUTION: The Surgeon General | | hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu | has found that exposure to | | heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com | high amounts of e-mail can be| | | hazardous to your health. | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 09:34:27 -0500 (EST) From: s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: order of writing Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, Stacy Hunt DuVall wrote: > ON Wed, Nov 29, Jerry wrote: > >> Anyone remember which order the Velgarth books were written in? > >> > > > >Arrows > >Last Herald Mage > >Vows and Honor > >By The Sword > >Winds > >Gryphon/Storms > > > Hmmm, I always thought Vows and Honor came before LHM. Since I don't have > my books available, though... > > Stacy Hunt DuVall, the Chemistry Avenger > duvall.23-+AT+-osu.edu > > God runs electromagnetics by wave theory on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, > and the Devil runs them by quantum theory on Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. > Sir William Bragg > > I do know that the Tarma and Kethry stories in the Sword and Sorceress anthologies is the forst of her writing....the Vows and honors books i have no clue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:44:31 -0600 (CST) From: Tina Newman R To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: order of writing Message-ID: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 29 Nov 1995 s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu wrote: > Anyone remember which order the Velgarth books were written in? > I think it goes like this... Arrows of the Queen Arrow's Flight Arrow's Fall Oathbound Oathbreakers Magic's Pawn Magic's Promise Magic's Price By The Sword Winds of Fate Winds of Change Winds of Fury Black Gryphon Storm Warning White Gryphon Storm Rising though I could be wrong on the placement of the Vows and Honor duology after the Arrows trilogy... -FyreHawke- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 10:41:34 -0500 (EST) From: Absolut Flaming To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Companions... a thought Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, Putty Tat wrote: > mating with a "dumb animal" would be distasteful. I mean in our society > it is considered wrong to bed a person who lacks intelligence. Saying Since when? I mean, if this were true, why are so many girls afraid to show their intelligence for fear of losing/not having a boyfriend? Why are "dumb jocks" considered so sexually attractive? BTW, intellectual snobbery is still snobbery. There is also the issue of why should we deny those who "lack intelligence" love? I would rather have a boyfriend who was a little slow but had a good heart and some common sense than a boyfriend who was brilliant but mean-spirited or isolated in some intellectual ivory tower. Been there, done that, hated it! Sorry, but I just had to say something here. More on track would be to ask "Would it be wrong to have sex with something that looked like a human, but wasn't?" Remember, horses and Companions are not even genetically related. It's not even like the human/gorilla analogy that a few people made. I tend to suspect that a Companion that did have sex with a horse would be considered decidedly odd. But if the reincarnation theory is right, then they should be equally prone to error and illogic in matters of love, just like humans. I've met some people on the net who love there horses in that way (romantically/erotically) and they are very nice, good people (just with a rather bizarre quirk in terms of sexuality). This is very odd topic for this list, but I suppose that is what departures from reality coupled with the internet will get you. Kenny Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 10:51:19 -0500 (EST) From: Absolut Flaming To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: order of writing Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, Stacy Hunt DuVall wrote: > Hmmm, I always thought Vows and Honor came before LHM. Since I don't have > my books available, though... > Actually, in a way, Vow and Honor comes before all the other Velgarth books. The first book in Vows and Honor is built on the short stories that Misty wrote before writing Arrows of the Queen. I think that the meeting of Tarma and Kethry was Misty's first Velgarth story in print (in Sword & Sorceress I, if memory serves). In publication chronology of the novels, Oathbound came out before the Magic's P series and, I think, Oathbreakers came out in between two of the books. (I seem to remember that is came out between MPawn and MPromise.) kenny Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:37:12 -0800 From: ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: A Whole Other Question -+AT+- Shavri Message-ID: <951129083710_19442858-+AT+-hp1.online.apple.com> Hello, all. I hope everyone had a lovely Turkey-day! :-) You know, I have always wondered why Shavri had to be Monarch's Own Herald rather than just an ordinary Herald (Vanyel would hate the way I just phrased that! ). I understand that she needed a Companion to supplement her healing energies, but why MOC? Then, reading all kinds of other posted stuff about Shavri's bond, etc, it occured to me that maybe it was because the Companions knew from the start that she would not be a Herald for long, whether because she would die with Randale or because she would be unnecessary without him after he died. This way, if she died, her Companion would not have to die with her, and if she simply became superfluous as a Herald, her Companion would be free to Choose again. What do the rest of you think? Does that ring true? Wind to thy wings, -- Alice -- ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 95 13:00:26 EST From: "James T. Yardley" <73201.745-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing Subject: Re: Tashir's companion Message-ID: <951129180026_73201.745_JHE100-2-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> ok, evidence that Nerya is *not* Tashir's companion, and i quote: ":Van - the boy - : Vanyel spun, just in time to see the young man losing his death grip on his Companion's mane, sliding to the ground. He sprinted to the boy's side, startling the young stallion so that he threw up his head and rolled his eyes..." etc. - Meg ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 95 13:03:59 EST From: "James T. Yardley" <73201.745-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing Subject: Re: Tashir's companion (oops) Message-ID: <951129180358_73201.745_JHE100-3-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> shoot me - it somehow didn't occur to me that Nerya could still be a male's name. ok, so i'm just as prejudiced as everyone else :> - Meg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 14:08:38 -0500 From: kcovert-+AT+-wvnvm.wvnet.edu (Kathy Covert) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: chemistry people Message-ID: <199511291908.OAA06221-+AT+-names> This list is so accepting of alternative lifestyle choices (religions, sexualities, etc.) that I thought I'd take a chance and reveal... that I too am a chemistry person, even worse a **chemistry professor** will you all still let me play? Back when I was reading Anne McCaffrey I was thrilled to learn that she also has a chemistry background. I read science fiction partly for the science of it, or the logic in creating a new world with rules very different from our own. I love Ursula LeGuin's work (especially her early books) for this reason. I have recently started reading Dana Stabenow- started with her Kate Shugak mysteries and was shocked when I found her science fiction -- Second Star, A Handful of Stars, and Red Planet Run. I recommend both the mysteries and the scifi. Stabenow (in common with Misty) creates strong, believable, interesting female characters and societies where gender doesn't seem to be limiting what her protagonists can/will do. There's enough good science sprinkled through Stabenow's book to make me think that she probably has a chemistry background as well [ or maybe she just had a good chemistry professor ;-) ] Kathy Kathy Covert (kcovert-+AT+-wvnvm.wvnet.edu) Chemistry Department West Virginia University (304)293-3435 x4442 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 13:45:07 -0600 (CST) From: Katherine M Brielmaier To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Cc: Katherine M Brielmaier Subject: Re: Shavri and Companions Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, Kerry Mealing wrote: > > Katherine wrote: > > re: Shavri and her abilities. I just reread LHM, and I found Shavri to be > > annoying in the extreme. Her only quality for being Chosen, in my view, > > was her Healing. Almost everything she did was calculated to benefit first > > herself, then Randale, and only incidentally Valdemar. > > Mmm, I agree Shavri was an irritating character, but don't you think > you're being just a tad bit harsh? I tend to agree with the healers in > some cases - a little healthy selfishness isn't all that bad.. Oh, I won't argue with you there. I'm not at all rational where Shavri is concerned--she just bugs me like crazy. Perhaps it's because she *is* a healer and is entitled to selfishness that it gets under my skin when I see a *Herald* acting that way. Her healing abilities come first, of course, but her Herald duties are equally as important, and yet she doesn't seem to care a whole lot about it. Ignoring your duties seems to me to be rather selfish--but again, you could argue that she is performing her duties (i.e. keeping Randi alive), so really it all depends on your point of view. > Being practical, if she does something for herself that happens to benefit > Valdemar, does it benefit Valdemar any less than if she'd done it with > her priorities reversed? (Sure there's a major moral difference, but > practically?) > Aigh, moral differences. I guess my point was that whether or not it benefits Valdemar, Shavri just went ahead and did what she wanted. Practically, that's good, but ideally it's just a big contradiction. > > She knew she would be *bad* at ruling.. It's very easy for a parent to > assume that children feel the same way they do - it's the classic parental > expectations thing. It's a flaw, lotsa people have it, I'd even > think that we all do to some extent. (Before people jump on me for that, > consider - assuming you're a successful professional - won't you want > your children to be professionals as well? Even if you see it as making > sure they get all the opportunities you had, it's still an expectation..) > I guess I have a hard time understanding that one. I understand that it would be difficult for Shavri to understand Jisa's point of view--we all have blindness when it comes to our children--but I do think that she could have been more respectful of Jisa's decision once it was all explained to her. Sure, Jisa was only 15, but she knew what she was doing and she had well thought out reasons. I think Shavri should have been able to realize that and at least tried to work it out instead of going straight for the emotional sobs and finger-pointing. > > 2. She had Jisa because she really wanted a child--it just happened to > > have the added benefit of keeping Randale available. > > Again.. wanting a child isn't a felony and if it means you get > to stay with the partner you love (yes, love, she's lifebonded..) is that > so bad? > I withdraw the Jisa claim. You're right, there's nothing wrong with it when you think of it that way. I may still have been under the influence of that tearful passage in MPrice (I think it was) where she started the emotional manipulation and all the hysterics. That was what just put me over the edge. :-) > > 3. She opened up that full link between herself and Randale. Yes, it was > > to benefit him, but really it was the only way to ensure that he would live > > as long as possible, and then die and take her with him. She didn't want > > to live without him, but she didn't want to die right away either, and it > > seems to me this was the only way she could manage it. > > Personally I didn't read it as such a self-centred attitude. > There's a vast difference between knowing that your life-bonded will die > & knowing that you won't want to live afterwards and saying "Ok.. I'm > going to use my own life energies to delay his death and make his life > more bearable in the meantime." That's courage. That's what a companion > is going to take note of. > Yes she's wildly terrified that Randale will die and leave her alone, > but that's not selfish, going on in the face of such a fear is courage.. > >From my point of view, she's not going on by linking with Randale. She's making sure she won't have to go on alone, and she's not considering anyone but Randi and herself when she makes this decision. I don't believe in suicide as a viable option in this instance. She has things to live for and duties to perform, and it seems to me that she's shirking those responsibilites. > > I am pretty surprised at her Companion for choosing such a bad herald. > She's not a bad herald. IMHO. Sure she's not a good MOH for the rest of > the circle, but she's not a bad herald. She is a good MOH in that the > primary problem Valdemar has is Randale's illness and she's dealing with > that in the best way she knows. I don't think I can separate it that way. She was Chosen to be MOH, with all the duties that this implies, not a regular Herald, and if she doesn't perform well as a MOH, then it's beside the point whether or not she would make a good regular Herald. > > > And speaking of which (Choosing, I mean), another question. How do > > Companions know whom to choose? > > I subscribe to the 'something goes click' theory. :) > OK, but how do they know where to go to find the "click"? ;-) > Anyway, all very much IMHO and no offence meant. :) None taken--I welcome thoughtful discussions and points that make me rethink my positions. 's e do bheatha Kaatje ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 12:58:55 -0700 From: Jean Morrill To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds and Healers, Companion fertility Message-ID: <199511291958.MAA14555-+AT+-torrent.hwr.arizona.edu> Seanna wrote (in response to a lot of other stuff) > Do you think souls are "sexed" - I mean, are previously male souls and > previously female souls different in some way? I don't, but Misty > seems to be writing that way... (Btw, I think Ma'ar choosing to steal > only male bodies was just a personal prejudice) > > -Seanna > > I don't know about in Misty's world, but did you ever see the movie DEAD AGAIN? In that movie two soul-bonded people are reborn into bodies of the opposite gender. And I believe the grocery-store psychiciatrist relates some other example of people who switched genders from one life to the next. And if souls can cross species (which ML says they do) there should be no reason they can't cross genders... Jean jean-+AT+-hwr.arizona.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 14:08:11 -0600 (CST) From: jacob clifton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: order of writing Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, Tina Newman R wrote: > > Anyone remember which order the Velgarth books were written in? > > > I think it goes like this... and just as interestingly, what order would you recommend someone read them in (this has probably been discussed ad nauseum already...)? I'm thinking, Talia, then Vanyel, then Vows/Kero, and then go into Elspeth's stuff, but wouldn't Arrows/Winds/Storms be more appropriate? Then do the Vows/Kero stuff, which i think of as a trilogy, really, and then back up to Gryphon (which i haven't read--lowdown?) and Vanyel. Unless there's a reason you think they'd like tLH-M first, if you see what i mean... i think Arrows should be the first trilogy you read, because it sort of lets you in the easy way to heralds and valdemar and you get that oh-so- memorable feeling of happiness when she gets chosen (i read By the Sword first and i wish i had known about Arrows), and then the story naturally follows through Winds and Storms, with By the Sword thrown into the middle and Vows as backstory to that, then go back for the historical stuff (or while your'e witing for the next book to come out in the series you are reading)... sorry to go on but i was thinking about this the other day as a way of converting my friend christine (and i was rereading Winds of Fate before starting ...Change again). jacob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 14:15:31 -0600 (CST) From: jacob clifton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Companions... a thought Message-ID: Angels. Quenten (i'm rereading Wind of Fate at the moment) uses some pretty strong language when appraising Elspeth (the really funny triple-mage-play she unknowingly puts him through) and it seems to me that what he was saying was that they were what we call angels. and then i was thinking, how did Valdemar get his Companions in the first place? Through prayer. and Ethereal Spirit is pretty obvious too. i'm not trying to say the Valdemar books are some kind of religious fantasy masquerading as something else (I'm an atheist) but it just makes sense. i really don't think the reincarnated herald theory holds much water--the Companions are some sort of spirits, so the analogy would be a Herald concievably reincarnated as a *vrondi* or something like that. Misty used reincarnation in tLH-M as a way to bring Vanyel peace with Tylendel's death, not some metaphysical mumbojumbo, and there is no indication that it would go into any nonhuman realms at all. thoughts? jacob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 15:43:55 -0600 (CST) From: Tina Newman R To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: order of writing Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, jacob clifton wrote: > > On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, Tina Newman R wrote: > > and just as interestingly, what order would you recommend someone read > them in (this has probably been discussed ad nauseum already...)? I'm > thinking, Talia, then Vanyel, then Vows/Kero, and then go into Elspeth's > stuff, but wouldn't Arrows/Winds/Storms be more appropriate? Then do the > Vows/Kero stuff, which i think of as a trilogy, really, and then back up > to Gryphon (which i haven't read--lowdown?) and Vanyel. > > Unless there's a reason you think they'd like tLH-M first, if you see what > i mean... > I would actually prpose reading them in chronlogical order myself..... that way you get all the history as you read along...... the writing will be a bit erratic, but I'd rather have the history... -FyreHawke- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 15:56:20 -0600 (CST) From: Tina Newman R To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Companions... a thought Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, jacob clifton wrote: > sense. i really don't think the reincarnated herald theory holds much > water--the Companions are some sort of spirits, so the analogy would be a > Herald concievably reincarnated as a *vrondi* or something like that. > Misty used reincarnation in tLH-M as a way to bring Vanyel peace with > Tylendel's death, not some metaphysical mumbojumbo, and there is no > indication that it would go into any nonhuman realms at all. WARNING, Warning, warning, if you haven't read Storm Rising, you may want to disregard the rest of this letter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! * * * * * * * * * * Spoiler space * * * * * ok... enough spoiler space. In Storm Rising, a Karsite Priest by the name of Uliric says to a Herald by the name of Rubrik that the FireCats (Karsite equivalants to Comapnions) aren't nearly so numerous as Companions because there are fewer Sons of the Sun to be brought back as FireCats than there are dead Heralds to be brought back as Companions... at which, Rubrik is stunned (since the idea had never occured to him). His companion nodded at Uliric! also Vanyel slips up in Winds of Fury by misspeaking Sayvil (Kerowyn's Comanion's name) as Savil (Vanyel's aunt) at first. As well as saying that Gwenna had no real HUMAN experience to base her decisions on as opposed to Sav... er Sayvil. (not a direct quote, but as close as I could get without my book here.) oh well... that's my version...open season. -FyreHawke- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 14:12:53 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: stress and misty... Message-ID: okay, i know i said i'd compile the list today, but my life is too stressful, so i won't be able to do it until friday, my time...7hours behind greenwich (sp?) meantime, so....THERE'S STILL TIME. folks, countrymen (valdmarans), lend me your lists.... *********************************************************************** * Why would I want my mind back? Who knows where it's been! * *---------------------------------------------------------------------* **************************** Chonni Brightwolf************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 14:14:58 -0800 (PST) From: Amy Mason To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Companions... a thought Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, James T. Yardley wrote: > just another idea for you all to ponder: what would happen if a Companion mated > with a regular horse? > > - Meg The companions would never let them. That is, somewhere (I believe in LHM, could be majorly wrong) it's stated that some real horse stallions get the "hots" for some Companion mares but the mares think the horses are too stupid. I doubt a Companion would ever come near or let a horse come near them considering the big gap in their intelligence. But, IF a Companion were to mate with a real horse, I don't know what would happen. The mating probably wouldn't be fertile because there make-up is so completely different. Any other suggestions? Amy :) ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 251 *********************************