MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 255 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Randale's illness by Rosario Holsen-Baker 2) Re: multiple personalities by Gyrfalcon 3) Re: Companions... a thought by "Thomas, Daria" 4) Re: multiple personalities by PS9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu 5) Re: multiple personalities by Heather Mina 6) Re: Companions... a thought by Heather Mina 7) Re: multiple personalities by Heather Mina 8) Re: Shavri and Companions by Katherine M Brielmaier 9) Re: Crimson Sweat... (fwd) by wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) 10) Cost of the Crown lyrics by wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) 11) Re: Randale's illness by Jennifer Broekman 12) Re: multiple personalities by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 13) Shavri as MOH by ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com 14) by J Hulley-Miller 15) Re: Randale's illness by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 16) Re: Shavri as MOH by jacob clifton 17) Re: Randale's illness by "Sanna Koulu" 18) Re: Shavri and Companions (marriage!) by "Sanna Koulu" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 14:15:51 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Randale's illness Message-ID: Seanna wrote > Jaguar wrote: > > (Owl wrote:) > > > AIDS is a > > > possibility, I guess, but where would it have come from--and wouldn't > > > others have caught it? Perhaps Shavri wouldn't have, if she used her > > > healing powers, but wouldn't Randale have had to had sex with someone > > > to catch it? > > > It's an interesting possibility though... > > > > Not....not necessarily, I think, if it was planted by Leareth. He > > could have gotten it from an outbreak in the north where he was, then > > used the same kind of reverse healing seen in MPromise to infect Randale. > > Hhm. I don't think this theory holds water. Healing seems to require > close contact. And the reverse Healing Vanyel did wasn't "real", I > mean, it wasn't a real form of the illness it counterfeited. I think. > And besides, if Leareth could do that to Randale, why not Vanyel? Or > Savil? He might not have had the resources at the time to take out Randale and other Herald-Mages, much less Savil or Vanyel. Remember, they are pretty much the most powerful mages among the Heralds. He probably would have wanted to concentrate all his attention on them at a certain point, when Valdemar was at its weakest. Reverse Healing, if the Gift was strong enough, probably could; Vanyel didn't have much of the Gift, anyway. So, for that matter, could Fetching, if it was the same as teke. Fine-tuned, and with Farsight, he could probably give Randale a "blood transplant" or something, or just expose him to a disease or cancer enough times to make sure it caught. Being a Mage doesn't, I think, protect against (reverse) > Healing. Or does it? I mean, why go to the trouble of killing them in > elaborate ways, one by one, if you could just infect them in their > teens and have them die before 40. Ok, it's slow, but Leareth had > time... Because it would be too slow. They would notice that suddenly all their Herald-Mages were dying before 35 and go looking for a cause. Eventually, someone would kill him. Randale was just important enough that, even if he was a Mage, he wouldn't be able to go tearing off to destroy Leareth. He'd have to also divert other Mages from their posts, and it would turn into a huge mess, whereas Herald-Mages could look or go hunting off duty, or be sent on covert-ops. Randale was just enough in the public eye to be a good target for that kind of assassination. |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | Three rings for the elven kings under the sky | | Seven for the dwarves in their halls of stone | | Nine for the mortal men, doomed to die | | One for the dark lord on his dark throne.... | |---------------------http://www.sidwell.edu/~rholsen--------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:27:44 -0500 (EST) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: multiple personalities Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Tammy Harris wrote: > One thing has always puzzled me about this. Why did > Falconsbane not recognize the "white clad riders" (Elspeth and Skif)? > He was clueless about both the Heralds and Valdemar (when Ancar > mentioned it), which doesn't make sense to me, after the lifetime he > spent as Leareth. Ideas? Remember though, Leareth just wanted the area, He didn't truely understand what the Heralds were, and I don't believe that he cared. He only physically met Van, and killed the rest of the **Mages** that could pose a power threat to him. He didn't once look towards the heralds as a possible threat, and probally didn't think of the companions as anything but horses. He never even stepped inside the Valdemarian borders. The fact that Elspeth and Skiff were from the north probally never occured to Falconsbane. The coincidence would just be too great, now wouldn't it? And IIRC he didn't know where everything else was compared to where he was. He knew that Leareth's old domains were to the north, but they could also be to the east, or west. He wasn't all that stable. My .02, --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 14:27:00 cst From: "Thomas, Daria" To: mercedes-lackey Subject: Re: Companions... a thought Message-ID: <30BE1428-+AT+-mailsrvr.bussvc.wisc.edu> >I think it said somewhere that Companions are in "season" all year round, >like humans, so they'd probably not have heats. > >irene This brings up a thought--has anyone else (at least in the US)been getting a laugh out of the "Fruit of the Loom" commercials lately? The ones with the slogan, "Always in season." For whatever reason, hearing that slogan *always* reminds me of Treyvan teasing Darkwind just before the mating flight..."You humans. Always in season." So when I see a fruit of the loom commercial these days, I get an entirely wrong impression! :) -Daria ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 14:44:04 CST From: PS9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: multiple personalities Message-ID: <296FEA35CD9-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu> > Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 13:32:40 GMT > Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk > From: Rosario Holsen-Baker > To: ps9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu > Subject: Re: multiple personalities > > > > > Stacy wrote: > > > Ok, so I went back to my room and looked up the quote in Winds > > > of Change, not Winds of Fate (silly me!): > > > "So it had gone down through centuries, taking new bodies and taking > > > on other names. Krawlven. Renthorn. Geslaken. Leareth. Zendak." > > > And not to mention Ma'ar, and Mornelithe. > > > > > > So that leaves 4 as yet unheard of "lifetimes". Any guesses on > > > where, and if, they'll show up? > > > > I got the impression they were in chronological order. I'd wager Zendak > > was the chap that Lavaan encountered.. (comments Jaguar? :) > > > > Kerry. > > > Lavaan didn't, *Lavan* did! Like there's a big difference there... > I wouldn't be surprised. It sounds about right. Also, does anyone else > see something vaguely familiar about "Renthorn" as an antagonist? I seem > to remember seeing that name somewhere...or maybe it's just the lack of > sleep. > The name "Renthorn" does set off alarms in my head, but I just can't seem to place the name to any particular situation. So I guess that means its not the sleep! "Without darkness there can be no light" Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 16:02:38 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: multiple personalities Message-ID: <9511302104.AA06914-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Tammy wrote: >One thing has always puzzled me about this. Why did >Falconsbane not recognize the "white clad riders" (Elspeth and Skif)? >He was clueless about both the Heralds and Valdemar (when Ancar >mentioned it), which doesn't make sense to me, after the lifetime he >spent as Leareth. Ideas? I think it's pretty well established that Falconsbane was, shall we say, 'round the bend. He also didn't seem to have very clear memories of anything in his previous lives, just a hatred of gryphons and a hatred of the Tayledras (which may have been just from his current incarnation). Any takers? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ A friend is someone who understands your past, believes in ~ ~ in your future, and accepts you today just the way you are. ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heather Mina ..... hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 16:02:43 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Companions... a thought Message-ID: <9511302104.AA06915-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> >On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Heather Mina wrote: >> What happens if a very strong stallion overcomes a very weak Companion >> filly? (The underriding question being - do Companion fillies smell like >> they're in heat to horses? If not, then the above would probably never happen). ... and Irene responded >I think it said somewhere that Companions are in "season" all year round, >like humans, so they'd probably not have heats. Right. The question is, does a Companion smell like a horse in season (to another horse, that is)? Pheromones are a primary means of animals communicating to each other that they are ready and willing, and a horse in season is a pretty powerful attractant to a male. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ A friend is someone who understands your past, believes in ~ ~ in your future, and accepts you today just the way you are. ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heather Mina ..... hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 16:02:46 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: multiple personalities Message-ID: <9511302104.AA06916-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Jaguar wrote: > And speaking of incarnations of Ma'ar, two questions. 1) Who else >thought Hadanelith was Ma'ar at the very beginning of White Gryphon? Nope. It was too soon after Ma'ar's destruction, I think, for a new mage-gifted male descendent to have arisen, I think. Plus, I thought Hadanelith wasn't mage-gifted (just insane), nor could he call fire, the trigger which makes Ma'ar/Leareth/Falconsbane come to the fore. But he did rather resemble Falconsbane in the flavor of his insanity. Yucky. I feel dirty just discussing him! > 2) Does anyone else want to see a few short stories or something >on the other incarnations of Ma'ar and who kicked his sorry little -+AT+-$$ >each time? :) YES! I think it would be good reading! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ A friend is someone who understands your past, believes in ~ ~ in your future, and accepts you today just the way you are. ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heather Mina ..... hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:39:50 -0600 (CST) From: Katherine M Brielmaier To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Cc: Katherine M Brielmaier Subject: Re: Shavri and Companions Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Sanna Koulu wrote: > Kaatje wrote: > > > On Thu, 30 Nov 1995 01:16:48 GMT, > > Kerry Mealing wrote: > (snip) > > > > > (Kerry) > > >Consider.. any child totally overturning > > >her/his parents' views of them & their future, at age 15, had better > > >expect some emotional reaction. (....) > > >Doesn't matter how logical or right the action may be, very few people > > >react logically to such a big shock. > > > > Quite true--however, considering that Jisa and Treven (?) are lifebonded, I > > still think Shavri should be more understanding. A big shock, yes, but > > still, I think rather expected or more admissible in this instance. Again, > > I think it was Shavri's hysterics that put me off this one. > > Oh? I was always emotionally on Shavri's side. I think she was > behaving quite reasonably (I wouldn't want my daughter to marry at > 15! if I ever had one, that is..), and I think that Jisa and Treven > (thanks for reminding meof the name) behaved irresponsibly and > inconsiderately. > Stupidly, too. Ok, they had their reasons, but come on! Why is it so > important to get married? Vanyel and Stefen survived perfectly well > without getting married. Jisa and Treven could well have waited some, > or tried to convince their parents, etc. > Well, I think since there were no other eligible young women around with which to make an alliance, and the Companions themselves helped Jisa and Treven out with this one, that effectively blows a hole in Shavri's complaints. As I recall, the big deal was that Treven shouldn't get married because he might need to make an alliance, and not that they were so young. They were going to marry off Talia at 13, remember, and somehow I get the impression that early marriages are not too unusual in Valdemar. (I have absolutely no textual basis for this, it's just a feeling I have.) Yes, they could have waited, but the way Heralds get killed off (even though they weren't full Heralds yet and the Heir is reasonably protected) why begrudge them the time they have? I get the feeling I am just reiterating the same argument here, so I think this will have to be my last thought on it. > > (me again) > > >> >From my point of view, she's not going on by linking with Randale. She's > > >> making sure she won't have to go on alone, and she's not considering > > >> anyone but Randi and herself when she makes this decision. I don't > > >> believe in suicide as a viable option in this instance. She has things > > >> to live for and duties to perform, and it seems to me that she's shirking > > >> those responsibilites. > > Again, consider Lendel. Consider Vanyel. Consider Stefen. They all > attempted suicide. (and tried to shirk their duties!). Now, what > duties does Shavri have? Her primary duty, the reason why she was > Chosen (and did she get any say about that, hmm?) was to take care of > Randale. It's not like she's vitally necessary to Valdemar. If she > wanted to kill herself, that's her business. > Well, what about Jisa? Surely Shavri has more worth than simply as a means to keep Randale alive? Where there's life, there's hope, and if you have anything at all to live for I think you should keep trying. I guess I can't be very rational about this subject--my sister has tried twice in the last week to kill herself and I am very anti-suicide right now, which probably accounts for why I mentioned that whole point in the first place. > (snip) > > > >> 's e do bheatha > > > > > >Please translate, I know it's Quenya but I'm not that good at it. :) > > > > Nope, it's not Quenya (although I'd love to be able to learn that > > somehow--hey, maybe that will be my life's work!) > > Isn't quenya the one based on Gaelic, though? And sindar on Finnish? > or is it the other way around? I *think* so (the first way I mean), but I don't have enough background to make a confident statement about it. That man is every linguist's envy and despair. :) > > It's an old form of Gaelic. It's a basic greeting and farewell, and it > > means "Life to you" > > Life to you, too :) > -Seanna Thanks! :) 's e do bheatha, Kaatje ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:41:28 -0800 From: wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Crimson Sweat... (fwd) Message-ID: <199511302341.PAA21977-+AT+-ix8.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > > >Apologies all - I'd email privately but my forwarding system ate >Shadow-lovers' email address.. > >Shadow Lover wrote: >> I wrote: >> >Crimson sweat and bloodstained tears >> >Light is what the darkness fears. >> >> I used it for a tag-line not long ago... My brother wrote it when he >> was in high skewl... >> - Shadow-Lover > >Ah.. I probably pinched it from there then.. :) >Sooo, a) Mind if I quote it? b) Got a name so I can attribute it? :) > >Cheers, >Kerry... whose anti-plauguerizing system is kicking in (even if his spelling > isn't). > > Feel free to use it.. I've been using it for too long and have gone on.. Just attribute it to Shadow-Lover... Zhai'helleva - Shadow-Lover -------------- A sociopath with no restraints can become anything... Ammorality frees her to be universally perfect, a charming chamelion with a scorpion's tail. - Color of Night ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:51:55 -0800 From: wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Cost of the Crown lyrics Message-ID: <199511302351.PAA23807-+AT+-ix8.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: >Rather than bug the whole list- would a kind soul perhaps email me the words >so I stop driving the house nuts playing the song over and over to learn it? >-grin- > >Thanks! > >Anne >annes3832-+AT+-aol.com > Being a kind soul, I'll do exactly that... The stars are very beautiful above the palace walls They shine with equal splendour still above far humbler halls I watch them from my window and their bright entrancing glow Reminds me of the freedom I gave up so long ago The royal circlet of bright gold rests lightly on my brow I once thought only of the rights this circlet would endow but when I took the crown to which I had been schooled and bred I found it heavy on the heart though light upon the head For all I am the head of state in truth I am the least The true queen knows her people fed before she sits to feast The good queen knows her people safe before she takes her rest Thinks twice and thrice and yet again before she makes requests For they are all my children, all I swore to defend It is my duty to become both queen and trusted friend But of all my children high and low, from beggar to above The dearest are my Heralds who return my care with love The dearest are my Heralds, swift to spring to my command Who give me aid and fellowship, who always understand That land and people first have needs that I cannot deny So I must send my dearest out to danger and to die A friend, a love, a child it matters not I know ideed That I must sacrifice them all if there should be the need They know and they forgive me doing more that I require With willing minds and loving hearts, go straight to grasp the fire These tears that burn my eyes are all the tears a queen can shed These tears I weep in silence as I mourn my Heralds dead Oh gods that dwell beyond the stars if you can hear my cry! And if you have compassion Let me send no more to die.... - Shadow-Lover ---------------- I believe we were put on this earth to do a certain number of things with our lives, and right now I am so far behind I will never die! - Anonymous ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 20:14:33 -0500 (EST) From: Jennifer Broekman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Randale's illness Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Sunfalcon wrote: > (presuming he had eithe Far-Sight or simple Mage-Sight) if Learath linked > with a circle > of Blood Mages and tapped into large nodes, he could conceivably pinpoint > targets in Valdemar and literally mess with their minds (by popping small > blood vessels in the brain, etc.) and impair their judgement (or balance, > with Kilchas and Davri) at critical moments. Ah, but that would show up in an autopsy. Far better to just use Fetching or magic and simply push them... > The other possibility is this: Ma'ar was a Sorcerer Adept; it's > entirely possible that Learath retained enough of his "primary memories" > to be able to MAKE a virus to kill Randale. This would account for the I don't think Velgarth knows about viruses. They know about the connection between dirt and disease, but so did the real world well before the discovery of viruses. Also, we have no evidence that any form of MageSight or Healing can *see* things as small as viruses. Creating or manipulating something that small is vastly different from creating or manipulating something large enough to look at. Finally, wouldn't it be much easier for him to just set Randale's immune system off in a vicious spiral without actually creating a virus? Viruses have the nasty ability to mutate and cause unpredictable effects, some people are naturally immune to even new ones, etc. > inability of the Healers to do anything, as well as the bafflement of the > Companions (who have to have amassed a vast store of knowledge on every If it was a concrete disease, such as that caused by a virus, there would be immune reactions (swelling, cell death, toxins) that a Healer could use to find the afflicted bits and bolster the immune system in the relevant way, no? In Randale, there was nothing they could find. To me, that suggests an autoimmune condition which Leareth was tweaking anytime anything was done towards a cure. > subject since the founding of Valdemar). If Learath used some sort of > biological weapon invented by Ma'ar (long before the founding of > Valdemar), it would lie outside the experience of everyone (with the > possible exception of Need). I think Need is sufficiently pre-Mage Wars that she wouldn't have any idea about Ma'ar and his creations, either. > some protection from disease (whether natural or magical). Don't > Tayledras Healing Adepts enjoy perfect health up until a few weeks before > they die? They don't age, but it's never suggested that they don't catch colds, that I recall. > Lastly, did anyone else find it strange that, during the entire > course of his illness, neither Savil nor Vanyel thought to ask the > Tayledras for help? Magic's Pawn centers around a situation in which the > entire Healer's Collegium is unable to cure their patient, but which the > Hawkbrothers fix almost immediately. If Randale was suffering from some > sort of anti-Healing, who better to determine that than the world's most > powerful Healing Adepts? If the disease was cancer, who better to call > than the Mages who live in the closest Velgarthian analogue of a > radioactive wasteland? Vanyel's condition was clearly magical in nature. Randale's is not. In Vanyel's case, they owed a personal debt to either Savil (in _MPawn_) or Vanyel himself (in _MPromise_). In Randale's case, there would be nothing that would make them interested in leaving the Vale to treat him. You certainly couldn't take the King off into the wilderness to have some barbarians try to Heal him when civilized Healers can't do anything. (Remember that Valdemarans in general don't think much of the Tayledras as anything but bogeymen. (see the reactions of the Forst Reach crowd to Starwind and Moondance, and people's opinions of the leadership out west.)) We may see the Tayledras as enlightened, Gifted, etc., but to Valdemar, they seem to look like Native Americans did to the European settlers. -jenneke jsb-+AT+-phantom.com new .sig in development ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 12:53:04 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: multiple personalities Message-ID: <9512010153.AA25289-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Heather wrote: > Tammy wrote: > >One thing has always puzzled me about this. Why did > >Falconsbane not recognize the "white clad riders" (Elspeth and Skif)? > >He was clueless about both the Heralds and Valdemar (when Ancar > >mentioned it), which doesn't make sense to me, after the lifetime he > >spent as Leareth. Ideas? > > I think it's pretty well established that Falconsbane was, shall we say, > 'round the bend. He also didn't seem to have very clear memories of > anything in his previous lives, just a hatred of gryphons and a hatred of > the Tayledras (which may have been just from his current incarnation). Any > takers? I think he had reasonably clear memories, for a couple of reasons - firstly And'esha accessed those memories (so they had to be there somewhere) and secondly, at one stage in Winds he gets a bit of a shock when he realizes how much magic-related knowledge that he's forgotten since Maar's time (He compares Firesong rather detrimentally to Maar at the time). Of course, Falconbane's never gone to uni so he's probably much more upset over that than most of us here - I at least, have perfected the in-one-ear & out-the-other, staying just-long-enough-for-exams techniques. (Who doesn't have to refer back to notes to reconstruct something very tricky that they did years ago?) Re Falconbane's not recognizing Heralds.. Well, he didn't know where he was, probably never really did realize what Companions were, the style of Herald clothing has no doubt changed etc. Alternatively, he could just have been waxing lyrical (or expansive anyway).. he seems the type to pontificate at the drop of a hat. Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 18:16:46 -0800 From: ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Shavri as MOH Message-ID: <951130181623_19568960-+AT+-hp1.online.apple.com> Hello, everyone! I hope you are all having a lovely day. And a special hello and good wishes to Heather, since her well-expressed ideas prompt my musings today. :-) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> snip from Heather: Since the purpose of the Monarch's Own Herald is to be the *one* person in the entire world who the Monarch can absolutely trust, who the Monarch can say anything to, and who will say whatever needs to be said to the Monarch --> in order to keep the Monarch mentally and emotionally healthy <-- Shavri was a perfect choice for Randale. end of snip from Heather >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think perhaps that is exactly why Shavri was the wrong King's Own for Randale. She was so emotionally involved on a personal level that she would never be perceptive enough to say whatever needs to be said to the Monarch in the way that she needs to. Can you imagine her giving Randale the kind of mental slaps on the wrist that Talia sometimes had to give Selenay? Also, how would Shavri's being chosen as other than MOC (regular Herald) have put her in the line of succession? I do like Heather's idea that Shavri had to have a reason, in the early days when they were concealing the illness, for her to be at his side all the time. I never thought of that. Sticking a healer next to him, even a healer-herald, with no good reason would have been almost as obvious as the white "shoot me now" outfits are in battle and beyond. It would shout to all and sundry, Now's the time to take your best shot! Sick King! Sick King! As always, comments are welcome and in fact gleefully sought. :-) Zhai'helleva! -- Alice -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 22:34:24 -0500 From: J Hulley-Miller Message-ID: <199512010334.WAA12629-+AT+-cnj.digex.net> AREA:LIST.MISTY To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk From: jhm-+AT+-cnj.digex.net (J Hulley-Miller) Subject: Book schedule. Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 21:24:00 -0400 Message-ID: Organization: * Informatix/2 * X-Mailreader: GoldED/2 2.50+ Sender: jhm-+AT+-cnj.digex.net (J Hulley-Miller) Greetings, Does anyone have a list of forthcoming ML books ? Tnx. jhm -- J Hulley-Miller ____ \/\/ "Human nature is never so weak as in a bookstore" - Henry Ward Beecher ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 14:54:27 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Randale's illness Message-ID: <9512010354.AA26149-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Jenneke wrote: > On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Sunfalcon wrote: > > (presuming he had eithe Far-Sight or simple Mage-Sight) if Learath linked > > with a circle > > of Blood Mages and tapped into large nodes, he could conceivably pinpoint > > targets in Valdemar and literally mess with their minds (by popping small > > blood vessels in the brain, etc.) and impair their judgement (or balance, > > with Kilchas and Davri) at critical moments. > > Ah, but that would show up in an autopsy. Far better to just use > Fetching or magic and simply push them... I think also to affect them directly as Sunfalcon suggests, you'd need to get through their shields.. It's just toooo dangerous otherwise, there'd be no way to stop anyone with a mind-gift. > > The other possibility is this: Ma'ar was a Sorcerer Adept; it's > > entirely possible that Learath retained enough of his "primary memories" > > to be able to MAKE a virus to kill Randale. This would account for the > > I don't think Velgarth knows about viruses. They know about the > connection between dirt and disease, but so did the real world well > before the discovery of viruses. Also, we have no evidence that any form > of MageSight or Healing can *see* things as small as viruses. Creating > or manipulating something that small is vastly different from creating or > manipulating something large enough to look at. Finally, wouldn't it be > much easier for him to just set Randale's immune system off in a vicious > spiral without actually creating a virus? Viruses have the nasty ability > to mutate and cause unpredictable effects, some people are naturally > immune to even new ones, etc. I don't know about virii - they might or might not be known / exist, but evidence exists to suggest mage-gift *can* manipulate things on a genetic (maybe even chromosomal) level. You can't build something like a gryphon without being able to do low-level work.. I think you'd need to be adept (if using mage-gift) or adept-equivalent (if using healing). Remember how Amberdrake could stimulate specific nerves in a small region? I agree with the consensus that Randale wasn't suffering from a virus because the healers would have been able to find it. Assuming of course that it wasn't a bacterio-phage (is that the word I want?), meaning that it camoflagues itself very very well as another cell and it's the waste products that it produces that actually do the harm (it's apparently very hard to trace cell waste products back to a particular cell). (If it turns out I'm talking through my hat, it's quite probable - again, no medical background & no tertiary chemistry either. Corrections welcome & appreciated). > > inability of the Healers to do anything, as well as the bafflement of the > > Companions (who have to have amassed a vast store of knowledge on every > > If it was a concrete disease, such as that caused by a virus, there would > be immune reactions (swelling, cell death, toxins) that a Healer could use > to find the afflicted bits and bolster the immune system in the relevant > way, no? In Randale, there was nothing they could find. To me, that > suggests an autoimmune condition which Leareth was tweaking anytime > anything was done towards a cure. I agree it was probably an autoimmune condition, but I don't think he would have dared tweak it once all the healers were monitoring Randale all the time - it could have been detected.. I'd tend more to a pre-set series of off-balance autoimmune thingies, intertwined. Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 22:22:08 -0600 (CST) From: jacob clifton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Shavri as MOH Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Dec 1995 ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com wrote: > I think perhaps that is exactly why Shavri was the wrong King's Own for > Randale. She was so emotionally involved on a personal level that she would > never be perceptive enough to say whatever needs to be said to the Monarch in > the way that she needs to. Can you imagine her giving Randale the kind of > mental slaps on the wrist that Talia sometimes had to give Selenay? i think that in this thread no one has yet said that there is no way she could have been the "wrong" choice for MOH...that would be like someone being accidentally Chosen as regular Herald. the Gods of Velgarth don't make those kinds of mistakes, and even less so for the King's Own's Companion, whom we know is of an even higher order than other Companions. i agree with the point that Shavri perhaps couldn't reprimand the Monarch the way Talia does (my favorite thing about the position, and of being a yenta in real life--saying things that need to be said is FUN!) and that putting just any Healer next to him would be a dumb move, but i think the question we should pursue is that of all the reasons Shavri *needed* to be King's Own, rather than reasons not to like her, as this thread started with. i think she was also important for Valdemar's politics at the time, that Monarch and Consort/King and King's Own and Heirs make a concerted front, the way things supposedly "used" to be before the royals in England became the world's foremost dysfunctional family. This is probably not a major reason, but could be a contributing factor. What else have we come up with so far? jacob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:04:20 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Randale's illness Message-ID: <1458B7C6CB4-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Kerry wrote: > Jenneke wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Sunfalcon wrote: > > > (presuming he had eithe Far-Sight or simple Mage-Sight) if Learath linked > > > with a circle > > > of Blood Mages and tapped into large nodes, he could conceivably pinpoint > > > targets in Valdemar and literally mess with their minds (by popping small > > > blood vessels in the brain, etc.) and impair their judgement (or balance, > > > with Kilchas and Davri) at critical moments. > > > > Ah, but that would show up in an autopsy. Far better to just use > > Fetching or magic and simply push them... > > I think also to affect them directly as Sunfalcon suggests, you'd need > to get through their shields.. It's just toooo dangerous otherwise, there'd > be no way to stop anyone with a mind-gift. Hey, hasn't it been said somewhere, somewhen in the Velgarth books that HEALING CAN PASS YOUR SHIELDS. Or am I confusing this with the deryni stuff? Can someone who knows what I'm talking about post the relevant quote? (On a side note, remember that shielding against mind- magic needs much stronger shields than only against true magic) Snipped... > > To me, that > > suggests an autoimmune condition which Leareth was tweaking anytime > > anything was done towards a cure. > > I agree it was probably an autoimmune condition, but I don't think he > would have dared tweak it once all the healers were monitoring Randale > all the time - it could have been detected.. I'd tend more to a pre-set > series of off-balance autoimmune thingies, intertwined. Why does everyone insist Leareth did anything about it? When have we ever seen any kind of Healing/counterhealing happen without physical proximity? And consider the distance! Valdemar isn't that small a country. (I refer to Starblade's (?!) comment that to break a mage, you need physical proximity. There's a lot of similar comments elsewhere, now if I could only remember... ) Also, why on earth would Leareth target Randale? How could he even see him? Randale wasn't a Herald-Mage, and it seems that potential (which we can't be sure Randale has) doesn't shine the same way. Jaguar wrote: (About why, if Leareth caused Randale's disease, he didn't also infect the Herald-Mages) > This is pulled from left field, but it's possible that > node-energy, in addition to all of its other wonderful effects, > offers some protection from disease (whether natural or magical). > Don't Tayledras Healing Adepts enjoy perfect health up until a few > weeks before they die? Remember that not all of the Herald-Mages used node-magic; indeed all of them couldn't even see the nodes! (Check the end of MPawn, Moondance talking to Vanyel) Btw, it's not just the Healing Adepts, Starwind wasn't one. It was all high-level mages (Adepts), but it wasn't perfect health, as such, it was just that they didn't show aging. Aging's different from illness. So the point of this diatribe :) is that I think Leareth didn't have anything to do with Randale's disease. Really, I don't see how he could have. It's also unlikely that he's got Healing at all (Healer- Adepts are _really_ rare). -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:20:09 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Shavri and Companions (marriage!) Message-ID: <145CF43537F-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Kaatje wrote: > On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Sanna Koulu wrote: > > > Stupidly, too. Ok, they had their reasons, but come on! Why is it so > > important to get married? Vanyel and Stefen survived perfectly well > > without getting married. Jisa and Treven could well have waited some, > > or tried to convince their parents, etc. > > > > Well, I think since there were no other eligible young women around with > which to make an alliance, and the Companions themselves helped Jisa and > Treven out with this one, that effectively blows a hole in Shavri's > complaints. As I recall, the big deal was that Treven shouldn't get > married because he might need to make an alliance, and not that they were > so young. No, the alliance marriage business wasn't the _real_ cause of complaint, since Treven obviously couldn't make one, I think. Rather that was the reason Shavri gave, though her real complaint about the marriage was that she thought her daughter was destroying her (Jisa's own, that is) future. > They were going to marry off Talia at 13, remember, and > somehow I get the impression that early marriages are not too unusual > in Valdemar. (I have absolutely no textual basis for this, it's just a > feeling I have.) I'm not sure... I got the impression the Haven custom was to marry at 16-18 or something. The quartermaster of the Collegium was _really_ shocked at Talia being married off at 13! > Yes, they could have waited, but the way Heralds get > killed off (even though they weren't full Heralds yet and the Heir is > reasonably protected) why begrudge them the time they have? Again, why on earth do they need to get married to be together??? (Jisa and Treven are going to stay at the capital, the same as Elspeth did. They are not going to be subjected to the same danger as circuit Heralds, as you pointed out) Why is it begrudging them the time they have to ask them to wait a while before getting married? They are living in the same place, they see each other all the time, they are Mindspeakers, so even while they're separate they can share thoughts. Why do they need to get _married_? Lifebond means, as someone pointed out, "superhitched"... :) > I get the > feeling I am just reiterating the same argument here, so I think this > will have to be my last thought on it. Me too... I'll shut up. For a while anyway Shade and sweet water, -Seanna ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 255 *********************************