MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 260 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Misty Filk reviews by Amy Mason 2) Re: Other stories I'd like to see Misty write by Amy Mason 3) Re: Misty Filk reviews by "Eric M. Scarazzo" 4) Re: twins or consorts by Absolut Flaming 5) Deities by Jennifer Broekman 6) Re: Shavri as MOH by Jennifer Broekman 7) Re: A few points by "Alison Hendon" 8) Re: Leslac by Tina Newman R 9) Re: Leslac by Stephanie Wukovitz 10) Re: Misty Filk reviews by "Sanna Koulu" 11) Re: A few points by "Sanna Koulu" 12) Re: Other stories I'd like to see Misty write by "Sanna Koulu" 13) Re: Randale's illness by "Sanna Koulu" 14) Re: Randale's illness by "Sanna Koulu" 15) Re: Other stories I'd like to see Misty write by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 16) Re: Other stories I'd like to see Misty write by "Sanna Koulu" 17) Re: Deities by Catherine Osborne 18) Re: A few points by Catherine Osborne 19) Aura colours by avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com 20) Re: Randale's illness by avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com 21) Coldrakes and nodes by avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com 22) Re: A few points by Heather Mina 23) Re: Randale's illness by Heather Mina ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 13:53:50 -0800 (PST) From: Amy Mason To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Misty Filk reviews Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Dec 1995, Mat Timmerman wrote: > The Colddrake -- 8 > Um, Vanyel didn't use nodes to kill the colddrake. He didn't > even know what a node was until he was on his way to find > Krebain (Moondances little Gift explanation on Yfandes' back). Not true! Can't give you a direct quote, but Van _did_ use a node to kill the colddrake. The Tayledras were shocked that he was able to find their node especially since he was far away from the heartstone. Any comments? Amy :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 13:57:03 -0800 (PST) From: Amy Mason To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other stories I'd like to see Misty write Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Dec 1995 avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com wrote: > Personally I would prefer to here stories about Savil and he > Tayledras. I mean I would love to know how she met tham in the first > place and how she became a wingsister. > > David Ramsden I second this motion! In the LHM books it is always eluding about the bond between Savil and the Tayledras, how she met Brightstar (not sure if it's his name) in the town after he had just killed his lover and brought him to the Tayledras (can't 'member his name either, getting a major blank today) to be healed. While there he took up as lovers with the one healer that healed him. But, I always assumed that Savil was a wingsister even before this episode, or how else would she have even been able to bring the boy to them without being connected somehow? Amy :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 95 17:47:55 EST From: "Eric M. Scarazzo" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Misty Filk reviews Message-ID: <199512042249.RAA22636-+AT+-uva.pcmail.Virginia.EDU> p.314-5 MPawn. Vanyel blasts the colddrake. It reads to me as if he did it with his own power. Because there isn't anything said of the nodes. In fact, p.328 Moondance describes what the nodes _are_ for Vanyel. Then later, Vanyel uses the vale's heartstone to blast Krebain. Eric Scarazzo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:45:44 -0500 (EST) From: Absolut Flaming To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: twins or consorts Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, CHONNI wrote: > > These are gods, right? If any of you know Greek and Roman mythology, > sibling gods often ended up married to each other, their children, their > parents...while I wouldn't guarantee that's what misty's done (it's a > little too classical and boring), but it is a possibility. Other > possibility: they are above such human classifications, so different > cultures could call them different things; it doesn't matter. Actually, the concept of sibling/spouse dieties is not at all confined to classicism and is certainly not boring. In fact, I can't think of any mythoi, offhand, where divine spouses are not related. Oh, wait! Christianity! Nope...that isn't quite right. Mary is the spouse of God the Son as well as the other faces of the Trinity. Anyway, the point is that sib-spouses (or other kinship relationship) is almost a universal concept in religions with a married diety. Probably the same thing that led to such horrible in-breeding amongst European royalty by the 19th century or in Pharaonic Egypt: only royals may marry royals. In the religious arena this would become "Only gods may marry gods." BTW, please remember that in many mythoi involving sib-spouses, the relationship are more a reflection of binary identity: god-goddess = husband-wife = brother-sister = father-mother = son-daughter = gaffer-crone = king-queen. In many of the mythoi that Misty has drawn on in her other works, the twin god/goddess exists on all these levels at once. Anyway, just some observations. Kenny Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 19:53:14 -0500 (EST) From: Jennifer Broekman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Deities Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Korendil wrote: > >Um, since when did we think that the Star-Eyed and Vkandis were twins. > >Consorts yes, twins no. > Um...ever since Winds of Fate? It might just be me, but, uh, didn't the > gods Need spoke of remind ANYONE of those two? Personally, I wonder if > everything has just gotten muddled,or gotten clearer as time goes on? > Either Need is right and they're twins, or the Karsites and Shin'a'in are > right and they are consorts... Why _Winds of Fate_? We don't find out about the name similarity until _Strom Rising_. Need's deities are two *pairs* of twins, two male twins and two female twins, so their relationship to a four-faced moon goddess and a singly faced sun god is debatable at best. -jenneke, whose books are already packed in boxes jsb-+AT+-phantom.com new .sig in development ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 19:56:27 -0500 (EST) From: Jennifer Broekman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Shavri as MOH Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Dec 1995 MIKE278485-+AT+-aol.com wrote: PLEASE DON'T DELETE ATTRIBUTIONS! I wrote: > >Are you sure about this? I was under the impression that consort (when > >referring to a member of the royal family) meant the non-ruling spouse of > >a ruling queen. That is, when a queen marries (and retains the rule), her > >spouse is called her consort, rather than her king. This is why Elizabeth > >II's husband is Prince Phillip, rather than King Phillip. In RL, this > >terminology is only used for the spouses of queens, but in Valdemar, it > >seems to be used for both. In any case, it refers to a legal spouse, not > >lover/partner/significant other/bedmate/lifebonded/etc. >From page 20 of Magic's Price > Vanyel is musing to himself > "Shavri was if truth were told, entirely unsuited to ruling. I guess we > should be just as pleased that she doesn't want Consort status, Vanyel > thought, nodding to an early-rising courtier..." > > This seems to imply to me that there was a special status to being Consort. > The capitalization is Misty's not mine. As a chosen Herald if there was a > formal bond between Randale and Shavri that would have made her Queen which > she and everyone else, correctly, did not want. To me this implies that Consort status is something she'd get automatically if she and Randale got married, not that it was a separate status she could get without marrying. Wasn't the sentence before your quote something about marriage? -jenneke, whose books are already packed in boxes jsb-+AT+-phantom.com new .sig in development ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:30:12 -0500 From: "Alison Hendon" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Cc: s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu Subject: Re: A few points Message-ID: <199512050129.AA23171-+AT+-dorsai.dorsai.org> > On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, 'Live Long and Prosper' wrote: > . > > Then you wrote: > you notice too that daren's companion is jasan??? wonder if this is Jayson > PLEASE don't include the entire message in your reply - especially when your reply is very short! This increases download time and wastes bandwidth. Alison> Alison Hendon ahendon-+AT+-amanda.dorsai.org "Though my soul may set in darkness, It will rise in perfect light, I have loved the stars too fondly To be fearful of the night...." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:43:38 -0600 (CST) From: Tina Newman R To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Leslac Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Mikkel Larsen wrote: > > Tina Newman wrote > >I'm confused as to where someone got the idea that Leslac wrote the > >song.... Yes Roald did marry him off to a Valdemaren noblewoman.... but I > >would seriously doubt (by the story as it's presented in the song) that > >poor little Leslac could ever have been popular enough to people to have > >warented the kind of aliibi protection that the castle folk offered to > >the count. Besides, the song claims that the countess was convince she > >"wedded 'neathe her state" and according to the real story, the > >Valdemaren noblewoman was head-over-heals for Leslac.... and was > >supposedly considering marrige herself. So with all that, I doubt Leslac > >had anything to do with that song. > Oathbreakers p274 (Talking about marrying Leslac off at swordspoint) > >Stefansen chucled. "Who's the lucky lady?" > "Countess Reine. She's actually a sweet old biddy, unlike her harridan > sister, who is-thank the gods! -no longer with us." Roald shook his head "A > few years back, her sister went mad during a storm and killed herself. Or so > it is said, and nobody wants to find out otherwise."< > I think this clears it up, the dead noblewoman was Leslacs sister in law, > and I think that for a Bard it would be irresistible to write a song about > THAT story. > Mikkel Larsen (mikkell-+AT+-cybernet.dk) > I sit corrected... thanks for clearing that up for me.... (been a while since I've read those two books.... got left behind in the move) > ~ , ~ ~\ , ~~~ Night-woven mists of ravyn ~\ /~^~^~ light twinkle in the ~\' //~^~^~ wolf's impassioned gaze... ~^\' ``/=^~^~~ Dark as the well of a ~^\' /``/*=^~^~ nightmare's soul and light ~^\'' |``/**=~^~ as the coming dawn... ~~|'' |`|*=~^~^~ Whyspers of soft desire and ~^~\' _- |`|*=~^~^~^~ shrieking howl of ~^~=\ /-^^\~ /``|**===^~^~^~ Nevermore... ~^~^===\ ~/ .\ /``/****===^~^~ Hawk, my brother, guide my ~^~^==~-/`.'.' ``/*****===^~^~ communion until the ~^~^== |`.' ``****==^~^~ threshold of the gale ~^~^~\ ***==^~^~ Lead me on with wings of flame // ||^~^~ unto the Wheel of the Void. m~ m~ \ Unto the death of Fate. /~|~***~|~\ /~|*|~\ -FyreHawke- /~\ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:36:33 -0800 From: Stephanie Wukovitz To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk, steph-+AT+-newton.mbi.ucla.edu Subject: Re: Leslac Message-ID: <9512050436.AA10480-+AT+-newton.mbi.ucla.edu> Grrrrrrrrrr. Could people PLEASE stop including 20-line .sigs in their mail to the list? 4 lines is supposed to be the not-rude length to use. Waste of bandwidth and all that (plu after the first time you use your .sig, everyone has *seen* it already so there's really no point in including it again and again and again and again...) Dunno about all of you, but *my* mail reader makes it annoying to scroll back up and read someone's mail, and if they include the .sig from hell, then it is very hard to get an idea of what they said from the last few lines of their post (because the last few lines are a screen or two UP). Then I have no idea whether their post is worth reading or not. Actually I've taken to simply not reading posts by people with excessive .sigs for this reason, there is a large enough volume of stuff coming from the list anyway. Thanks muchly. ---- Stephanie Wukovitz steph-+AT+-newton.mbi.ucla.edu 4Play Composer/Programmer "She was impatient with fools and scornful of those who were ruled by emotions rather than logic" -Winds of Fate ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:39:54 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Misty Filk reviews Message-ID: <1A425D976FF-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Eric Scarazzo wrote: > p.314-5 MPawn. Vanyel blasts the colddrake. It reads to me as if he did > it with his own power. Because there isn't anything said of the nodes. > > In fact, p.328 Moondance describes what the nodes _are_ for Vanyel. Then > later, Vanyel uses the vale's heartstone to blast Krebain. Well. It's some time since I read the book, but doesn't Vanyel use nodes when training with Starwind? He might not have known what they were, but he used them. -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:55:38 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A few points Message-ID: <1A468B24BA2-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Rosetta wrote: > Firstly, anyone else ever suspected that Talia has a hint of > Foresight?? When she is about to go to Hardorn and has just had the > row with Elspeth she insists on leaving a note in case she never gets > back (paraphrased). Selenay jokes about hiring Talia as her official > doomsayer. Talia is unable to shake this feeling all the way to > Hardorn. If a character known to have Foresight eg Selenay was > having these feelign we would automatically call them Foresight - so > does Talia have foresight, or are premonitions or feelings things > are about to go wrong only foresight when experienced by characters > who are KNOWN to have foresight???? That sounds somewhat absurd. If so, how could anyone identify a Foresight Gift except by scanning? However, I think Talia doesn't have Foresight; I think it's just a premonition, which everyone gets from time to time (in fact, I've just now got this feeling a test I just had is about to go wrong ). If Talia had it, it probably would have been identified in Gift training. Of course, if it was just a very faint hint...hmm. But then it really doesn't make much of a difference. We could say that _everybody_ has that much Foresight etc. > Secondly, Back to the Last Herald Mage series. Anyone else ever > noticed that Tylendel's twin was called Staven (presumably a > variation on Stephen) and Tylendel comes back as Stefan (again > presumably a variation on Stephen). Surely Vanyel should have thought > of it, and to me it is another bit of final proof that Tyelndel and > Stefan are one and the same! (Not to mention that I THINK (please > correct me if i am wrong) that Stefan woudl have been born about the > time that Tylendel died). Actually I think Stefen (please spell it properly? :) was born a few years after Lendel died, based on Vanyel musing in MPromise that in the first few years after Lendel's death he had been feeling his beloved's presence, but then even that faded. OTOH, I don't need any more proof about the reincarnation. I agree the names are interesting, but such a coincidence stretches my incredulity; how could Stefen's mother have known to name him that? -Seanna (who's in a contrary mood this morning :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:05:30 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other stories I'd like to see Misty write Message-ID: <1A492E95DD2-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Amy wrote: > On Sun, 3 Dec 1995 avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com wrote: > > > Personally I would prefer to here stories about Savil and he > > Tayledras. I mean I would love to know how she met tham in the first > > place and how she became a wingsister. > > > > David Ramsden > > I second this motion! In the LHM books it is always eluding about the > bond between Savil and the Tayledras, how she met Brightstar (not sure if > it's his name) in the town after he had just killed his lover and brought > him to the Tayledras (can't 'member his name either, getting a major > blank today) to be healed. You're thinking of Moondance (Tallo at the time) and Starwind (who wasn't a Healer in any Gifted sense). Brightstar, of course, is Vanyel's son (he of the silver eyes! apparently they do breed true.. ) > While there he took up as lovers with the one > healer that healed him. But, I always assumed that Savil was a > wingsister even before this episode, or how else would she have even been > able to bring the boy to them without being connected somehow? Yes, exactly. I agree it would make a lovely story... OTOH, I doubt if Misty's going to write it; she has a lot of projects already, it seems, and that tale seems like it's adequately described already. Unfortunately. I think it's a pity that the tayledras have changed so much (in tone, but also in substance) between the LHM and the Winds. Though k'Treva was described as "unconventional", but still... I like those crazy bird-fools! -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:21:12 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Randale's illness Message-ID: <1A4D66B346F-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Jaguar wrote: > Seanna wrote: > > > So the point of this diatribe :) is that I think Leareth didn't have > > anything to do with Randale's disease. Really, I don't see how he > > could have. It's also unlikely that he's got Healing at all (Healer- > > Adepts are _really_ rare). > > > He doesn't have to be a Healer-Adept. In fact, he probably wasn't > in any of his incarnations, he doesn't seem to have the character for it. I don't think it has anything to do with character. You're Gifted or not, and character only determines how you use those Gifts. I think Leareth _could_ have been an (counter-)Healer-Adept, it's just very unlikely. > Assuming Fetching is the same as teke, he could have used very fine-tuned > Fetching to transplant blood from a sick person or a random tumor into > Randale. This seems to be pushing it _very_ far. Apart from the problems of distance (lots of it!) and the amount of mind- and mageGifted Heralds in attendance, I think it's very unlikely that it's possible to Fetch anything _into_ a person (or into any solid object, for that matter). First, Fetching living matter is much harder than Fetching inanimate objects (AFlight?). Secondly, if you Fetched something into a person, you'd have no guarantee you hit the right area. What if someone tried giving a blood-transfusion by that method and ended up placing it in your stomach? Or LUNGS, for that matter. A messy death. Thirdly, I think that if you tried Fetching an object into another, you'd get (in the hallowed tradition of lots of SF, for example Bester's _Stars My Destination_) a pretty -and deadly- explosion as the two objects get superimposed on each other and the matter becomes much too dense. In two words: impossible. I think. Any opinions? -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:50:38 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Randale's illness Message-ID: <1A553AC47DB-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Jaguar wrote: > Absolut Flaming wrote: > > > Jenneke wrote: > > > before the discovery of viruses. Also, we have no evidence that any form > > > of MageSight or Healing can *see* things as small as viruses. > > > > Actually, I think we have to assume that MageSight and Healing can see on > > that level. I mean Urtho was definitely doing genetic manipulation, as > > was Mornelithe. Why does that assume you have to see it? I can use glue without needing to know anything about molecular bindings. I can use a galvanized nail without understanding the electrons that make it work. I tend to see Urtho's creation (I agree, it was gene manipulation) like he was using a computer program: you design something on the screen and the program takes care of the details (Varley's Steel Beach explains this somewhat). I don't think he even knew what a gene was. Dna and Rna? Come on! He's a mage, not a bio-chemist! > > Also, if Mornelithe was making changes to himself and his > > daughter (what *is* her name again?) on a subcellular/genetic basis (and > > he had to be doing this, or the effects would not have persisted as new > > cells were generated and replaced old ones), he would have had to be > > operating on a much finer level than would be required for even viral > > pathology. Here, too: I think he just designed what he wanted in his mind, and then "wrenched the magical forces" to make it so. Consider, that to do gene manipulation of that scale, you'd have to change the genes in _every_ cell (or do you? Does anybody know any genetics?) - easy (or, well, doable) in an embryo (well, fertilized egg cell), but complicated in an adult. Btw, I think that to make these changes by magic, you need both time and, more importantly, physical proximity. (Can't remember where it's said, but there's indication SOMEwhere...) > Actually, this brings up another point. If it wasn't some sort of > virus, but it was Leareth tampering with Randale, perhaps he changed > Randale's genetic structure for some sort of disorder. If he gave Randale > some sort of genetic disorder by teke tampering, that would be why the > Healers can't pinpoint/fix it, since by that time it would be Randale's > natural state. Huh???? Using Fetching to give someone a genetic disorder??? In a time corresponding to later middle ages? I don't think the requisite knowledge exists. Using Fetching to do it seems somewhat, well, impossible. (tearing apart amino acids and rearranging them in a different order? Being able to see the DNA double helix and _change_ it? Knowing what results if you replace this guanin with that whatever-it's-called? ). Healing maybe. If you had all the knowledge we have now, and a microscope. And unlimited time. And a research institute. Besides, if it was possible, there was a huge amount of proficient Healers and Fetchers and Mages around. They could have countered it. > Re Seeing Leareth behind every bush (questioned by Starhawk): I > think Leareth is the most likely candidate for killing Ran by tampering > with him because: > a) It was already established that he killed Herald-Mages by > triggering accidents from far away, and had been doing so for a long time Accidents, sure. And Herald-Mages, sure. However, Randale wasn't a Herald-Mage, so Leareth might not even have Seen him. Also, there's a huge difference between giving someone a push or clouding their minds with Empathy or Mindspeech (Things that have been "proved" possible) and manipulating their genes with Fetching!!! > b) Ran's sudden unexplained illness is just a bit too convenient > for my comfort It was hardly sudden. (thanks, jenneke) And illnesses happen, sometimes very suddenly. I knew a person who had half a year to live from the time the cancer was noticed. I think Randale's illness was just a coincidence. (now, if you claimed that Leareth was behind Staven's death, that I'd believe...) > c) Leareth was the only villain with motive and opportunity to do > that sort of thing. He doesn't have the opportunity, I think. Anti-Healing he probably didn't have. Using Fetching that precisely without knowing what the hell you're doing seems unlikely. Even the motive is somewhat questionable. (If Leareth was killing Randale, then why did he attack before he was dead?!! He could have waited in the north for a few more years before starting to kill the Herald-Adepts.) > I'm not paranoid! Really! Wait, you want me to think I'm > paranoid! You're all against me! They're watching me! Aaauugh! > :) You know, sometimes paranoia is a survival trait... :) -Seanna the contrary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 19:00:10 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other stories I'd like to see Misty write Message-ID: <9512050800.AA19686-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Seanna wrote: > You're thinking of Moondance (Tallo at the time) and Starwind (who > wasn't a Healer in any Gifted sense). Brightstar, of course, is > Vanyel's son (he of the silver eyes! apparently they do breed > true.. ) I've checked this myself many times, because I'm almost positive it's inconsistent (I can just never find the contradiction and the proof at the same time). Starwind is described as blue-greeny swirly in Magic's Pawn (ie healer-adept), more than once and I'm sure it's implied that he uses his energy when Savil first brings Van to the Tayledras. (And yes, I know, Moondance was supposed to be the Healer-adept). I think it's just that they have different applications.. remember Brightstar is a healer adept as well, but of the land rather than a healer of the body (he didn't have the expertise to heal Van). Starwind might be the same. I'll go reference hunting tonight. Cheers! Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:57:19 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other stories I'd like to see Misty write Message-ID: <1A670234619-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Kerry wrote: > > Seanna wrote: > > You're thinking of Moondance (Tallo at the time) and Starwind (who > > wasn't a Healer in any Gifted sense). Brightstar, of course, is > > Vanyel's son (he of the silver eyes! apparently they do breed > > true.. ) > > I've checked this myself many times, because I'm almost positive it's > inconsistent (I can just never find the contradiction and the proof at > the same time). Starwind is described as blue-greeny swirly in Magic's > Pawn (ie healer-adept), more than once and I'm sure it's implied that he > uses his energy when Savil first brings Van to the Tayledras. Hmm. I think it went like: first gold-green energy -that's Moondance who Heals Van's channels and helps him get some distance from the memories. Then blue-green energy - Starwind, who teaches him to ground and center and shield. I don't think Starwind Healed at any point, though healing (note the capitalization) was probably involved. About aura colors: what do we know about them? Can anyone remember what the lights in the kyree caves (end of MPrice) meant? that might give a clue. Vanyel was also blue aura-ed. If blue is the Mage-Gift, Moondance should also have it. Ditto with Mind-Gifts. If green means Healer, Vanyel should have a touch of it... I guess the colors don't really have much relevance to the Gifts of people (except maybe the Gifted have stronger auras?), but are more about who the person is. (Ooh, how amazingly clear...) > (And yes, I know, Moondance was supposed to be the Healer-adept). > I think it's just that they have different applications.. remember Brightstar > is a healer adept as well, but of the land rather than a healer of the body > (he didn't have the expertise to heal Van). Starwind might be the same. > I'll go reference hunting tonight. I think "Healer-Adept" was a catch-all for all Adept-level Mages with Healing. I think they're most common, though not unique, among the tayledras. Tayledras also seem to be the only ones practicing land- Healing (Well, there's the land-sense of the rulers of Rethwellan). I don't think Starwind had that, either. He just used his mage-Gift to control the twisted magic. (Though I have this feeling that yes, there is a contradiction here somewhere... possibly between MPawn (where there's indication Starwind wasn't a H-A) and MPrice (when the Tayledras come to Forst Reach. Or, now I know! Van at some point talks of Randale's illness and says something like "we should ask Moondance and Brightstar about it. As Healer-Adepts, they're much better at understanding imbalances than I am".) Good luck in finding the quotes!) -Seanna (who likes parentheses) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 07:29:16 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Deities Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Jennifer Broekman wrote: > and two female twins, so their relationship to a four-faced moon goddess > and a singly faced sun god is debatable at best. Well, if you look at the Shin'a'in version of the sun god, he's got four faces. I\/ Catherine Osborne "After great pain, I\/ Sundancer a formal feeling comes." I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu --Emily Dickinson I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 07:33:31 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A few points Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Sanna Koulu wrote: > but such a coincidence stretches my incredulity; how could Stefen's > mother have known to name him that? She just *would* have. Some god would have whispered it in her ear or something. I'm willing to buy that, if Stefen was the "right" name for him for whatever reason, she would have just known and done it. I\/ Catherine Osborne "After great pain, I\/ Sundancer a formal feeling comes." I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu --Emily Dickinson I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 12:48:05 +0000 From: avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Aura colours Message-ID: <199512051248.MAA03225-+AT+-gate.dungeon.com> Seanna wrote: > About aura colors: what do we know about them? Can anyone remember > what the lights in the kyree caves (end of MPrice) meant? that might > give a clue. Vanyel was also blue aura-ed. If blue is the Mage-Gift, > Moondance should also have it. Ditto with Mind-Gifts. If green means > Healer, Vanyel should have a touch of it... I guess the colors don't > really have much relevance to the Gifts of people (except maybe the > Gifted have stronger auras?), but are more about who the person is. > (Ooh, how amazingly clear...) I don't know if aura colours have anything to do with character types (thou I am inclined to agree) but I agrre in that they don't have much to do with what gifts are possesed. For example all the herald-mages being trained by Savil in magics promise had different auras. Tylendals was violet (MPrice pg74), Mardic's was yellow and Donnis was green (MriceP pg149) I seem to remeber that Savil's was also blue. Maybe the Aura colour is something to do with Family, we know that mage gift is hereditry, maybe you also inherit you aura colour. What colour aura did Firesong and Elspeth have...if it is blue it could suggest that this would be the case. Also I agree that there is some suggestion that Healer adepts always have green -blue auras. Quote(mpromise, pg285) "Vanyel got a very clear picture of Tayledras adepts; several of them, all of them radiating great power, including one with the peculiar blue-green aura of the rare Healer-Adept." OK I admit it, I'm flummoxed it appears there a lot of contradictions in this aura thingy. David "Vanyel" Ramsden Email: avalon-+AT+-avalon.dungoen.com URL: http://rooster.sci.port.ac.uk/personal/ramsdend/ Note that the web page is majorly out of date. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 12:48:06 +0000 From: avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Randale's illness Message-ID: <199512051249.MAA03228-+AT+-gate.dungeon.com> > I think Randale's illness was > just a coincidence. (now, if you claimed that Leareth was behind > Staven's death, that I'd believe...) > > > -Seanna the contrary Is there any proven link between Laereth and Crebain at all? David "Vanyel" Ramsden Email: avalon-+AT+-avalon.dungoen.com URL: http://rooster.sci.port.ac.uk/personal/ramsdend/ Note that the web page is majorly out of date. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 12:48:05 +0000 From: avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com To: Amy Mason , mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Coldrakes and nodes Message-ID: <199512051249.MAA03243-+AT+-gate.dungeon.com> > On Sun, 3 Dec 1995, Mat Timmerman wrote: > > > The Colddrake -- 8 > > Um, Vanyel didn't use nodes to kill the colddrake. He didn't > > even know what a node was until he was on his way to find > > Krebain (Moondances little Gift explanation on Yfandes' back). > > Not true! Can't give you a direct quote, but Van _did_ use a node > to kill the colddrake. The Tayledras were shocked that he was able > to find their node especially since he was far away from the > heartstone. Any comments? > > Amy :) > I disagree. I don't think Vanyel did use node energy to kill the queen drake, even though he allready had drawn on the nodes during the practice sessions with Starwind (ie when he was frightened with the wysa in an attempt to make him call down lightning.) Below are a couple of quotes to prove this. Magics Price pg315-6, Vanyel attacks the cold drake. "Vanyel hit the cold drake with everything he had in him. The blast of raw power caught the drake in the side abd sent it hurtling up over the roof of the house - and held it suspended there for one agonising moment while Vanyel's insides felt as if they were tearing loose. Then the power ran out, and it fell to the earth, bleeding in a hundred places, every bone in it's body shattered. And Vanyel fell to his knees, then his hands, then collapsed completely, to lie spent in the open field under the pale winter sun, wondering what he had done." It seems to me that Vanyel only attacked with internal power and this is why he was exahsted afterwards. This is confirmed later by Moondance when he explains to Vanyel what Nodes are. Magics Promise, pg 329 "For now - you exauhsted yourself when you killed the colddrake. That is something you don't have to do quite so quickly, if you remember that you can pull from the life-energy nodes within your sensing range. When they are drained then use your own strength. David "Vanyel" Ramsden Email: avalon-+AT+-avalon.dungoen.com URL: http://rooster.sci.port.ac.uk/personal/ramsdend/ Note that the web page is majorly out of date. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 10:42:40 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A few points Message-ID: <9512051544.AA26429-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Seanna writes (in response to Rosetta): >That sounds somewhat absurd. If so, how could anyone identify a >Foresight Gift except by scanning? However, I think Talia doesn't >have Foresight; I think it's just a premonition, which everyone gets >from time to time (in fact, I've just now got this feeling a test I >just had is about to go wrong ). If Talia had it, it probably >would have been identified in Gift training. Of course, if it was >just a very faint hint...hmm. But then it really doesn't make much of >a difference. We could say that _everybody_ has that much Foresight >etc. Remember that Selenay has a touch of foresight. Although Misty never lays out how they scan for Gifts (unlike the open discussion of this in the LHM trilogy), I think it is safe to assume that if a Herald displays some slight tendency to pick up on surrounding thoughts/emotions, or to feel premonitions about the future, then the Herald has a slight vestige of the corresponding Gift. Seanna writes: >Actually I think Stefen (please spell it properly? :) was born a few >years after Lendel died, based on Vanyel musing in MPromise that in >the first few years after Lendel's death he had been feeling his >beloved's presence, but then even that faded. OTOH, I don't need any >more proof about the reincarnation. I agree the names are interesting, >but such a coincidence stretches my incredulity; how could Stefen's >mother have known to name him that? Given the seeming ubiquitousness of reincarnation in Velgarth, baby Stefen maybe "whispered" his name to his mother? I don't know! (But I think that Rosetta has raised an interesting parallel here, even if it is just a device that Misty uses to subtly remind us of 'Lendel). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Friendship is what makes you think almost as much ~ ~ for someone else as you do for yourself. ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heather Mina ..... hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 10:42:43 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Randale's illness Message-ID: <9512051544.AA26436-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> With apologies for attributions that were confusing when I got them: (Conversation was between jenneke, absolut flaming, and others) >> Re Seeing Leareth behind every bush (questioned by Starhawk): I >> think Leareth is the most likely candidate for killing Ran by tampering >> with him because: >> a) It was already established that he killed Herald-Mages by >> triggering accidents from far away, and had been doing so for a long time >Accidents, sure. And Herald-Mages, sure. However, Randale wasn't a >Herald-Mage, so Leareth might not even have Seen him. Also, there's a >huge difference between giving someone a push or clouding their minds >with Empathy or Mindspeech (Things that have been "proved" possible) >and manipulating their genes with Fetching!!! Keep a couple things in mind here. First, Leareth had been systematically killing children with mage potential in Valdemar for years, so that there would be no more mages to defend the country. It is my understanding that not every mage-to-be displays signs of his/her powers at an early age, but carries the potential until it is activated by a traumatic event, onset of puberty, or some other change. Therefore, Leareth must have been able to sense people with mage potential, bot just an active mage gift. Second, Randale's father was a mage, and I think it was stated outright that Randale did have the mage potential. So Leareth could very well have sensed the potential in Randale and been working on him from afar. Now, I don't personally subscribe to the theory that Leareth caused Randale's death (I think it was some fictional disease which borrows the most pitiful symptoms from many different real world diseases and syndromes, whether a congenital disorder or not), but I think we all need to keep the above points in mind when discussing it. >> b) Ran's sudden unexplained illness is just a bit too convenient >> for my comfort > >It was hardly sudden. (thanks, jenneke) And illnesses happen, >sometimes very suddenly. I knew a person who had half a year to live >from the time the cancer was noticed. I think Randale's illness was >just a coincidence. (now, if you claimed that Leareth was behind >Staven's death, that I'd believe...) Does this mean that you think Leareth was "tweaking" the Leshara clan, so that they continued the feud with Tylendel's family? It seems to specific to me. Lereth could just as easily have caused a convenient accident to get Tylendel out of the way, or a colddrake attack (or whatever) to get rid of the entire family, so that no more mage potential be passed on. I just don't see him being concerned with the Lesharas. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Friendship is what makes you think almost as much ~ ~ for someone else as you do for yourself. ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heather Mina ..... hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 260 *********************************