MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 261 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) colddrake by Heather Mina 2) The worst book you've ever read by Heather Mina 3) Re: Star-eyed & Vkandis by Heather Mina 4) Re: Tashir's companion by Heather Mina 5) Off-Topic: Environmental Destruction -- Petition by Rosario Holsen-Baker 6) Re: Deities by Jennifer Broekman 7) Re: Misty Filk reviews by "Patrick S. Waterlander" 8) Leareth & Staven's death by Jennifer Broekman 9) Re: colddrake by Heather Mina 10) Re: here it be! Mailing lists!!! by Heather Mina 11) Re: Off-Topic: Environmental Destruction -- Petition by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 12) Re: Deities by s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu 13) Re: A few points by s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu 14) Re: Off-Topic: Environmental Destruction -- Petition by Heather Mina 15) Re: Randale's illness by duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) 16) Di Tregarde by ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com 17) Re: Di Tregarde by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 18) Re: A few points by Jennifer Broekman 19) Re: Coldrakes and nodes by Mat Timmerman 20) Re: Aura colours by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 21) Re: Deities by Jennifer Broekman 22) Re: Di Tregarde by Staci Schoenfeld ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 10:42:39 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: colddrake Message-ID: <9512051544.AA26441-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> >>On Sun, 3 Dec 1995, Mat Timmerman wrote: >> The Colddrake -- 8 >> Um, Vanyel didn't use nodes to kill the colddrake. He didn't >> even know what a node was until he was on his way to find >> Krebain (Moondances little Gift explanation on Yfandes' back). >Amy responded: >Not true! Can't give you a direct quote, but Van _did_ use a node to >kill the colddrake. The Tayledras were shocked that he was able to find >their node especially since he was far away from the heartstone. Any >comments? I think Amy has it here. Even though Van did not know what a node was, he managed to sense the raw power and access it to kill the colddrake. I think Moondance's explanation was to show Van what he had done. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Friendship is what makes you think almost as much ~ ~ for someone else as you do for yourself. ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heather Mina ..... hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 10:42:58 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: The worst book you've ever read Message-ID: <9512051544.AA26453-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Just a reminder - I'll be compiling the results of this poll at the end of the week. Please send answers to me privately at hlmina-+AT+-mailhost.vwc.edu. Thanks! BAD FICTION - What's the worst book you've ever read? What books have you just put down in the middle and never finished? Do you know what made you feel this way about them? Please, no flames on this one. "Piers Anthony sucks" is not very meaningful or interesting for discussion, but "I have found that Anthony's early works were well written, but his later ones are inconsistent and just not very good" is a good conversation starter. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Friendship is what makes you think almost as much ~ ~ for someone else as you do for yourself. ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heather Mina ..... hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 10:58:21 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Star-eyed & Vkandis Message-ID: <9512051600.AA27037-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> (I apologize for the brackets all through this thing, but I've been having e-mail problems this morning) >With apologies for missing attributions: > >>>Um, since when did we think that the Star-Eyed and Vkandis were twins. >>>Consorts yes, twins no. >>Um...ever since Winds of Fate? It might just be me, but, uh, didn't the >>gods Need spoke of remind ANYONE of those two? Personally, I wonder if >>everything has just gotten muddled,or gotten clearer as time goes on? >>Either Need is right and they're twins, or the Karsites and Shin'a'in are >>right and they are consorts... > >Anybody ever wonder about Talia's expression "Lord Bright and Lady Dark!" >(or the other way around). She uses it as some would "Oh darn it!", but I >know it had to come from scomewhere... >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >~ Friendship is what makes you think almost as much ~ >~ for someone else as you do for yourself. ~ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Heather Mina ..... hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu > ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Friendship is what makes you think almost as much ~ ~ for someone else as you do for yourself. ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heather Mina ..... hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 10:58:31 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tashir's companion Message-ID: <9512051600.AA27059-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> >Jaguar writes: >> No, that doesn't work. Leshya means Ghost in Tayledras. Either >>Yfandes knew Tayledras when she was a Herald (I assume she was a Herald >>or something like, once) or she got it from Vanyel. We're still no closer >>to knowing his Companion's name than we were. Maybe it's...Florian! :) > >Not to be nitpicky here, but is "Leshya" the Tayledras or Shina'in word for >"ghost"? We know it is Shina'in (leshya kalenedral - with apologies for >missing apostrophes, but I always put them in the wrong place ), but I >did not know it was Tayledras as well. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >~ Friendship is what makes you think almost as much ~ >~ for someone else as you do for yourself. ~ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Heather Mina ..... hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu > ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Friendship is what makes you think almost as much ~ ~ for someone else as you do for yourself. ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heather Mina ..... hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 12:11:57 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk, x-files-+AT+-chaos.taylored.com Subject: Off-Topic: Environmental Destruction -- Petition Message-ID: Please, don't everyone flame me. Just delegate that to a select few. :) > >Hello everyone, > >I am generally reticent about sending mass mailings, especially ones with > >political intent. However, every once in a while, an issue comes up > >which is so important, so pressing, that it is shameful to keep quiet. > >When I first read about the proposed Utah bills, I was horrified. Those of > >you who have been to the the canyonlands know it as one of the most > >precious places in the world; those of you who haven't cannot even fathom > >a place of such beauty... > >Now it's threatened with destruction, sentanced to a silent, permenant > >death, by opportunistic lawmakers who have spent the last year erasing > >decades of environmental reform. I don't know if this petition can > >help, but it sure as hell beats waiting for the sound of the bulldozers. > >Please, please sign it. > >Please, forward it on and on and on... > > > >Thanks, > >Daniel > > > >> > >> > >>! * ! * ! * SIGN THIS PETITION IF YOU CARE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT, > >> THE DESERT, PROTECTION OF PRISTINE WILDERNESS AREAS! * ! * > >> > >>As this editorial in the New York Times states, two very very bad bad bad > >>bills: HR 1745 and its senate counterpart S884, are currently proposing > >>wilderness annihilation in the beautiful desert lands of Utah. Read the > >>following article if you want more details. This is a NATIONAL issue, and > >>an issue of misrepresentation-- the people of Utah do not want this bill > >>passed and their representatives are not listening. > >> > >>ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SIGN YOUR NAME TO THIS LIST AND SEND IT ON TO 5 > >>OTHER PEOPLE. > >> > >>IF YOU ARE A TENTH PERSON TO SIGN YOUR NAME, FORWARD THE > >>LIST BACK TO ME: whittle-+AT+-owlnet.rice.edu > >>(i.e. the 10th, 20th, 30th person will forward this message to me in progress) > >> > >>I will compile the petition and send it to the important senators, etc. > >> > >> > >>PETITION BEGINS HERE: > >> > >>"I do not support wilderness annihilation bills HR 1745 and S884. I am > >>in favor of Senator Hinchey's and the Utah citizen's proposal to designate > >>AT LEAST 5.7 million acres of PROTECTED wilderness in southern Utah." > >> > >># NAME E-MAIL (not obligatory) PLACE OF RESIDENCE > >>-- -------------- ---------------------- ----------------- > >> > >>1. Elizabeth Whittlesey whittle-+AT+-owlnet.rice.edu Texas, orig. Utah > >>2. Cori Nelson corin-+AT+-leland.stanford.edu CA, orig. Utah > >>3. Erin Johnson ejohnson-+AT+-minerva.cis.yale.edu CT, orig. Utah > >>4. Sung-Min Chung sucker-+AT+-minerva.cis.yale.edu CT, orig. MD > >>5. Thomas Socci NY, NY > >>6. Sofia Yakren NY > >>7. Elizabeth Kanter MA, orig. NJ > >>8. Amelia Kaplan akaplan-+AT+-fas.harvard.edu NJ > >>9. Emily Hobson ehobson-+AT+-fas.harvard.edu CA > >>10. Adam Dylan Hefty hefty-+AT+-fas.harvard.edu KS > >>11. Eric Albert edalbert-+AT+-fas.harvard.edu NJ > >>12. Daniel Mason dmason-+AT+-fas.harvard.edu CA > >>13. Joshua Mooney moondog-+AT+-dartmouth.edu CA > >>14. Erica Brandling-Bennett beeb-+AT+-dartmouth.edu VA > >>15. Heather Brandling-Benett habb-+AT+-dartmouth.edu VA > >>16. Judith Kaplan VA > >>17. Russell Talbot rmt-+AT+-dartmouth.edu VA > >18. Sarah Godsey VA > >19. Rhona Dallison FL > >20. Alexis Bunten WA > >21. Sally Dickinson MA > >22. William Dwyer MA > >23. Kevin Little CO > >24. Erika Little elittle-+AT+-wellesley.edu CO > >25. Shawna Lea Adams sadams1-+AT+-wellesley.edu ME (previous > CA, NV, OR) > >26. Anne L. Cross across-+AT+-wellesley.edu MA, (previous DC) > >27. Rosario Holsen-Baker rholsen-+AT+-sidwell.edu DC > >28. > >29. > >30. > > > > > >>------Editorial in the New York Times, November 15, 1995---------- > >> > >> > >> . . .There is another test just around the corner. > >>Companion bills in the House and Senate would take > >>about 22 million acres of Federal land in Utah now > >>run by the Federal Bureau of Land Management, > >>give wilderness protection to a mere 1.8 million > >>acres in southeastern Utah's fabled canyonlands > >>and open the rest to mining, road-building and > >>development. > >> > >>The bills are sponsored by Representative > >>James Hansen and Senator Orrin Hatch, both Utah > >>Republicans. A competing bill sponsored by > >>Representative Maurice Hinchey of New York is much > >>better. It would protect 5.7 million acres, which > >>environmentalists think is the minimum require > >>maintain the integrity of the canyonlands. > >>According to several polls, Utah's rank-and-file citizens > >>prefer the Hinchey approach and believe that there > >>is more to be gained from tourism if the terrain is > >>left alone than from bulldozing some of the nation's > >>most fragile and scenic lands. But Utah's > >>Congressional delegation prefers the bulldozer. > >> > >>Critics of the Hatch-Hansen bill have two > >>further complaints. First, it would undermine the > >>intent of the 1964 Wilderness Act--an act that > >>designates wilderness as a place "where man him- > >>self is but a visitor"--by allowing development > >>even in the 1.8 million protected acres. Second, it > >>forecloses the possibility of future wilderness > >>designations. The B.L.M. will continue to manage the 20 > >>million Utah acres left unprotected by the Hansen- > >>Hatch bills. But the bills say the land must hence- > >>forth be reserved for commercial users. Wilderness > >>designation will no longer be an option. > >>Finally, victory for the Hansen-Hatch bills > >>could provide smoother sailing for other measures > >>that are aimed at stripping the Federal > >>Government of control over public lands. The most brazen > >>of these are identical bills sponsored by Senator > >>Craig Thomas, Republican of Wyoming, and Mr. > >>Hansen that would transfer to the states every > >>single acre managed anywhere by the B.L.M., some > >>270 million acres in all. A variant has been offered > >>by Senator Conrad Burns, Republican of Montana, > >>who would establish a commission to identify > >>national forests and other public lands that could be > >>sold or transferred to the states or private interest. > >>The Thomas-Hansen measure proposes a give- > >>away. The Burns bill threatens a national yard sale > >>of the country's natural heirlooms. Mr. Thomas > >>says the lands would be better administered "by the > >>people who truly understand the needs of local > >>citizens. That, of course, means Western state > >>legislatures, which tend to be far more inclined to > >>exploit public resources for commercial gain than > >>even this Congress. > >> > >>These are destructive ideas, and the only sure > >>way to stop them is to send a clear conservationist > >>signal by defeating the Utah lands bill. The main > >>hope is on the House floor, where a growing group of > >>moderate Republicans is having strong second > >>thoughts about legislation that endangers the > >>environment. The preservation of a sound national > >>public lands strategy may lie in their hands. > >> > > > > GUYS I HAVE BEEN TO CANYONLANDS UTAH---YOU SHOULD GO TO UTAH BEFORE IT IS ALL > >GONE. SIGN THIS PETITION. DON'T LET THOSE STUPID GOVERNMENT PEOPLE HAVE THEIR > >WAY. > > > >if commercial users are allowed to use these lands, the ecosystem there will be > >ruined . Much of it is very fragile , dependant on this special cryptogamic ( I > >hope I spelled that right) soil that takes like 100 years to grow and like one > >second to destroy by people or cows or jeeps tromping on it. It would be a > >shame to see this land destroyed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | Three rings for the elven kings under the sky | | Seven for the dwarves in their halls of stone | | Nine for the mortal men, doomed to die | | One for the dark lord on his dark throne.... | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 12:18:44 -0500 (EST) From: Jennifer Broekman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Deities Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Catherine Osborne wrote: > On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Jennifer Broekman wrote: > > and two female twins, so their relationship to a four-faced moon goddess > > and a singly faced sun god is debatable at best. > Well, if you look at the Shin'a'in version of the sun god, he's got four > faces. Yes, but that's the Shin'a'in God, not Vkandis, who was the one under discussion. (And, no, I don't accept that they're one and the same, Goddess-name similarities or no Goddess-name similiarities.) -jenneke jsb-+AT+-phantom.com new .sig in development ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:28:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Patrick S. Waterlander" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Misty Filk reviews Message-ID: > On Sun, 3 Dec 1995, Mat Timmerman wrote: > > > The Colddrake -- 8 > > Um, Vanyel didn't use nodes to kill the colddrake. He didn't > > even know what a node was until he was on his way to find > > Krebain (Moondances little Gift explanation on Yfandes' back). > > Not true! Can't give you a direct quote, but Van _did_ use a node to > kill the colddrake. The Tayledras were shocked that he was able to find > their node especially since he was far away from the heartstone. Any > comments? > > Amy :) > It seems to me that you are getting two events mixed (tell me if I'm wrong). First of all, Vanyel does not use the nodes to kill the colddrake. He uses the power within himself to accomplish this. He DOES use the nodes, specifically the valley node, when he defeats Krebain. The Tayledras (I may be wrong on this point) were amazed that Vanyel could reach this far. Vanyel himself was also amazed that he could reach back to the valley, although using it would mean his death. -Mannaheim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:04:02 -0500 (EST) From: Jennifer Broekman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Leareth & Staven's death Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Heather Mina wrote: > With apologies for attributions that were confusing when I got them: > (Conversation was between jenneke, absolut flaming, and others) None of the quoted material is mine. I believe Seanna wrote the double-quoted material?? > >just a coincidence. (now, if you claimed that Leareth was behind > >Staven's death, that I'd believe...) > Does this mean that you think Leareth was "tweaking" the Leshara clan, so > that they continued the feud with Tylendel's family? It seems to specific > to me. Lereth could just as easily have caused a convenient accident to get > Tylendel out of the way, or a colddrake attack (or whatever) to get rid of > the entire family, so that no more mage potential be passed on. I just > don't see him being concerned with the Lesharas. He doesn't have to have tweaked the Leshara at all. He could simply have taken advantage of the feud to make certain that Tylendel was killed along with the rest of them. Certainly there are hints that Krebain was working for someone besides the Leshara, and the sort of mayhem that ensued would have served Leareth's purposes as well. (Remember that Leareth was several centuries saner than Falconsbane...) Also note that Leareth could have been 'behind' Staven's death without having directly, personally engineered the details of the feud or Krebain's involvement in any number of ways. For example, there are hints that Tylendel's problems in adolescence (Gifts waking early & being thought possessed) were caused by Leareth. One could argue that having to fanatically protect his twin from such accusations helped solidify Staven's hotheadedness with regard to 'outsiders'. The original incident that started the feud (which no one remembers), could have been an 'engineered' misunderstanding, with the goal not so much of killing a Mage-potential family, but of stirring up so much trouble within Valdemar that Valdemar wouldn't have time to look north (in what time they weren't looking south). -jenneke jsb-+AT+-phantom.com new .sig in development ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 13:30:23 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: colddrake Message-ID: <9512051832.AA02626-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> At 06:04 PM 12/5/95 GMT, you wrote: >>>On Sun, 3 Dec 1995, Mat Timmerman wrote: >>> The Colddrake -- 8 >>> Um, Vanyel didn't use nodes to kill the colddrake. He didn't >>> even know what a node was until he was on his way to find >>> Krebain (Moondances little Gift explanation on Yfandes' back). >>Amy responded: >>Not true! Can't give you a direct quote, but Van _did_ use a node to >>kill the colddrake. The Tayledras were shocked that he was able to find >>their node especially since he was far away from the heartstone. Any >>comments? >Heather mistakenly wrote: >I think Amy has it here. Even though Van did not know what a node was, he >managed to sense the raw power and access it to kill the colddrake. I think >Moondance's explanation was to show Van what he had done. I apologize, guys. I had written this before I saw people correct this bad assumption. SORRY! Heather ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ We cannot tell the precise moment when friendship is formed. As ~ ~ in filling a vessel drop by drop, there is at last a drop that ~ ~ makes it run over; so in a series of kindnesses, there is a last ~ ~ one that makes the heart run over. - Samuel Johnson ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heather Mina ..... hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 13:30:29 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: here it be! Mailing lists!!! Message-ID: <9512051832.AA02639-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> I know my eyes go buggy sometimes telling the difference between w's and m's, but in case anyone was curious about the mailing lists I subscribe to, my address is hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu. >SF&F Writers > hlmina-+AT+-vmc.edu >Writers Workshop *-this list has submission requirements >Intertext (electronic sci-fi magazine) >Gothic Tales (electronic magazine) > hlmina-+AT+-vmc.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ We cannot tell the precise moment when friendship is formed. As ~ ~ in filling a vessel drop by drop, there is at last a drop that ~ ~ makes it run over; so in a series of kindnesses, there is a last ~ ~ one that makes the heart run over. - Samuel Johnson ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heather Mina ..... hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:47:11 GMT From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Environmental Destruction -- Petition Message-ID: <9512051847.AA03637-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> If people feel they have an off-topic item which merits posting to the list, would they please send it to me first? I will then decide whether it gets posted. (Likely to be on _very_ rare occasions.) Posts such as this are generally of very, very limited relevance to a mailing list which has members spread all round the world, and which has gathered (virtually) to discuss something completely different. Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 14:58:28 -0500 (EST) From: s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Deities Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Jennifer Broekman wrote: > On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Korendil wrote: > > >Um, since when did we think that the Star-Eyed and Vkandis were twins. > > >Consorts yes, twins no. > > > Um...ever since Winds of Fate? It might just be me, but, uh, didn't the > > gods Need spoke of remind ANYONE of those two? Personally, I wonder if > > everything has just gotten muddled,or gotten clearer as time goes on? > > Either Need is right and they're twins, or the Karsites and Shin'a'in are > > right and they are consorts... > > Why _Winds of Fate_? We don't find out about the name similarity until > _Strom Rising_. Need's deities are two *pairs* of twins, two male twins > and two female twins, so their relationship to a four-faced moon goddess > and a singly faced sun god is debatable at best. > > -jenneke, whose books are already packed in boxes > > jsb-+AT+-phantom.com > new .sig in development > Well there are 4 faces to each of the shin'a'in dieties maybe they only worshipped 2 of these faces...realizing each face as a seperate god(ess) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 15:00:01 -0500 (EST) From: s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu To: Alison Hendon Cc: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A few points Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Alison Hendon wrote: > > > On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, 'Live Long and Prosper' wrote: > > > . > > > > Then you wrote: > > > you notice too that daren's companion is jasan??? wonder if this is Jayson > > > PLEASE don't include the entire message in your reply - especially > when your reply is very short! This increases download time and > wastes bandwidth. > > Alison> > Alison Hendon > ahendon-+AT+-amanda.dorsai.org > > "Though my soul may set in darkness, > It will rise in perfect light, > I have loved the stars too fondly > To be fearful of the night...." > if you would tell me HOW to snip the extra without holding down the**** delete key for a half hour i just might listen! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 15:49:30 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Environmental Destruction -- Petition Message-ID: <9512052051.AA09092-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> At 08:13 PM 12/5/95 GMT, Mel wrote: >If people feel they have an off-topic item which merits posting to the list, >would they please send it to me first? I will then decide whether it gets >posted. (Likely to be on _very_ rare occasions.) Posts such as this are >generally of very, very limited relevance to a mailing list which has members >spread all round the world, and which has gathered (virtually) to discuss >something completely different. Thanks, Mel. I, for one, tend to just delete these messages without even reading them. I feel a twinge of guilt when I know that someone has put time and energy into putting the post together, but these posts are along the same lines as computers telephoning your house to tell you that you have could win a Bahamas vacation if you sign up to buy new windows for your house. CLICK! Heather ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ We cannot tell the precise moment when friendship is formed. As ~ ~ in filling a vessel drop by drop, there is at last a drop that ~ ~ makes it run over; so in a series of kindnesses, there is a last ~ ~ one that makes the heart run over. - Samuel Johnson ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heather Mina ..... hlmina-+AT+-vwc.edu ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 17:21:16 -0500 From: duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Randale's illness Message-ID: <199512052221.RAA00151-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> On 12-5-95, Sanna Koulu wrote: >Jaguar wrote: > >> Absolut Flaming wrote: >> >> > Jenneke wrote: >> > > before the discovery of viruses. Also, we have no evidence that any form >> > > of MageSight or Healing can *see* things as small as viruses. >> > >> > Actually, I think we have to assume that MageSight and Healing can see on >> > that level. I mean Urtho was definitely doing genetic manipulation, as >> > was Mornelithe. snip - a - bit >I tend to see Urtho's creation (I agree, it was gene manipulation) >like he was using a computer program: you design something on the >screen and the program takes care of the details (Varley's Steel >Beach explains this somewhat). I don't think he even knew what a gene >was. Dna and Rna? Come on! He's a mage, not a bio-chemist! > >> > Also, if Mornelithe was making changes to himself and his >> > daughter (what *is* her name again?) on a subcellular/genetic basis (and >> > he had to be doing this, or the effects would not have persisted as new >> > cells were generated and replaced old ones), he would have had to be >> > operating on a much finer level than would be required for even viral >> > pathology. > >Here, too: I think he just designed what he wanted in his mind, and >then "wrenched the magical forces" to make it so. Consider, that to >do gene manipulation of that scale, you'd have to change the genes in >_every_ cell (or do you? Does anybody know any genetics?) - easy (or, >well, doable) in an embryo (well, fertilized egg cell), but >complicated in an adult. Btw, I think that to make these changes by >magic, you need both time and, more importantly, physical proximity. >(Can't remember where it's said, but there's indication SOMEwhere...) Sorry about the terribly long quote. I agree with jenneke about seeing things on a molecular level (I hope I'm attributing this to the right person :). For any of the changes either Falconsbane or Urthro to breed true, there would have to be modifications on the genetic level. Also, the modifications would have to be done to the germ tissues (ie, sperm, eggs, and the germ cells that all the gametes come from). After all, for any trait to be passed on, it must be in the genetic information. Perhaps Falconsbane or Urthro don't think of it the same terms we do (DNA, ect.); but I do think that they did have an understanding of the cellular level. Stacy Hunt DuVall, the Chemistry Avenger duvall.23-+AT+-osu.edu God runs electromagnetics by wave theory on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and the Devil runs them by quantum theory on Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. Sir William Bragg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:54:31 -0800 From: ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Di Tregarde Message-ID: <951205165421_19900733-+AT+-hp1.online.apple.com> Okay, you-all, you talked me into it... After reading many pro-Di postings, I finally took the plunge and bought the three books despite the awful covers (which I should have very well known would have nothing to do with the actual books) and the typically misleading back cover discriptions. Yes, I liked them! But not nearly as much as the Velgarth books, though that may just be because there are so many of those. :) I especially liked Children of the Night and was sorry Andre wasn't in the last one. Having just met my first pagan recently, I was positively intrigued by all the wicca stuff, and Di is, admitedly, pretty terrific. Like the best of Misty's characters, she is especially wonderful because of her imperfections (as Di tries to tell what's-her-name about writing characters in Jinx High). Now that I have read the books (and even enjoyed them ;-), I am wondering if the rumors earlier posted about there being no more coming are true? Does anybody have inside info? Also, I would love to start a thread about the Di books, though I am dry for a specific topic to throw out there. Do you all love them, hate them, feel so-so about them, or have you done what I did until recently and avoided them because they are called "investigations"? Also, has anyone read Sacred Ground? That would be my next Misty purchase, but I haven't heard a word about it. As usual, thanks for any and all input! I hope you are all well out there in the real world. :) -- Alice -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 13:00:57 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Di Tregarde Message-ID: <9512060200.AA26732-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> ARisemberg wrote: > Also, has anyone read Sacred Ground? That would be my next Misty purchase, > but I haven't heard a word about it. Read it.. Loved the Di books, SG was good, but not IMO as good as Children of the Night (of course that still leaves heaps of room for it to be good.) Actually I kinda felt that misty was following a formula for SG (and yes, I know most of her books follow a formula, but for some reason, it jumped out at me this time..) Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 21:13:00 -0500 (EST) From: Jennifer Broekman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A few points Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 1995 s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu wrote: > On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Alison Hendon wrote: > > > On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, 'Live Long and Prosper' wrote: > > . > > Then you wrote: > > > you notice too that daren's companion is jasan??? wonder if this is Jayson > > PLEASE don't include the entire message in your reply - especially > > when your reply is very short! This increases download time and > > wastes bandwidth. > if you would tell me HOW to snip the extra without holding down the**** > delete key for a half hour i just might listen! This is a question that you should address to your system administrator, your instructor, or your coworkers/friends/classmates. Your ignorance is *not* an excuse to spam us with one-liners. If you absolutely, positively *cannot* find anyone at your site to help you, try asknig for help and including such relevant information as the type of system and mailer you're using. Also, do you think you might condescend to *sign* your posts? s003yms isn't precisely enlightening. -jenneke jsb-+AT+-phantom.com new .sig in development ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 21:13:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Coldrakes and nodes Message-ID: <01HYGNMTR6MA94H8U6-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com > >> On Sun, 3 Dec 1995, Mat Timmerman wrote: >> >> > The Colddrake -- 8 >> > Um, Vanyel didn't use nodes to kill the colddrake. He didn't >> > even know what a node was until he was on his way to find >> > Krebain (Moondances little Gift explanation on Yfandes' back). >> >> Not true! Can't give you a direct quote, but Van _did_ use a node >> to kill the colddrake. The Tayledras were shocked that he was able >> to find their node especially since he was far away from the >> heartstone. Any comments? >> >> Amy :) >> >I disagree. I don't think Vanyel did use node energy to kill the >queen drake, even though he allready had drawn on the nodes during >the practice sessions with Starwind (ie when he was frightened with >the wysa in an attempt to make him call down lightning.) Below are a >couple of quotes to prove this. Very good quotes deleted.. Thank you David. Those quotes were exactly what I was thinking of when I wrote the review. I just didn't have the books with me at the time (I had both Arrows and Vows&Honor with me for lyrics, but not LHM). Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ VAX is the source of all evil. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 13:14:05 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Aura colours Message-ID: <9512060214.AA26808-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> David wrote: > Seanna wrote: > > About aura colors: what do we know about them? Can anyone remember > > what the lights in the kyree caves (end of MPrice) meant? that might > > give a clue. Vanyel was also blue aura-ed. If blue is the Mage-Gift, > > Moondance should also have it. Ditto with Mind-Gifts. If green means > > Healer, Vanyel should have a touch of it... I guess the colors don't > > really have much relevance to the Gifts of people (except maybe the > > Gifted have stronger auras?), but are more about who the person is. > > (Ooh, how amazingly clear...) > > I don't know if aura colours have anything to do with character types > (thou I am inclined to agree) but I agrre in that they don't have > much to do with what gifts are possesed. For example all the > herald-mages being trained by Savil in magics promise had different > auras. Tylendals was violet (MPrice pg74), Mardic's was yellow and > Donnis was green (MriceP pg149) I seem to remeber that Savil's was also > blue. Maybe the Aura colour is something to do with Family, we know > that mage gift is hereditry, maybe you also inherit you aura colour. > What colour aura did Firesong and Elspeth have...if it is blue it > could suggest that this would be the case. I think that was shield colour that you're referring to (at least from my rather hazy memory) and I agree, it's probably personality dependant (maybe even as simple as what colour they like best). > Also I agree that there is some suggestion that Healer adepts > always have green -blue auras. Quote(mpromise, pg285) "Vanyel got a > very clear picture of Tayledras adepts; several of them, all of them > radiating great power, including one with the peculiar blue-green > aura of the rare Healer-Adept." > OK I admit it, I'm flummoxed it appears there a lot of > contradictions in this aura thingy. Agreed. Here are the quotes I picked out last night: p283 Magics Pawn: "His [Starwind's] voice was a little deeper in pitch than Moondance's and after a moment Vanyel recognized the 'feel' of him as being the same as the 'blue-green music' in his dreams." p272 Magic's Pawn: The blue-green music (Starwind) shows him basic shielding, the green-gold music (Moondance) heals him.. p285 Magic's Promise: "Vanyel got a very clear picture of Tayledras Adepts; several of them, all of them radiating great power, including one with the peculiar blue-green aura of the rare Healer-Adept." p43 Magic's Promise: Jisa to Van: "Felt you in my head, all blue-glowy and swirly." "He nearly dropped her in shock. That was surely the most vivid - and accurate - description of his aura he'd ever heard out of anyone but another high-ranking Herald-Mage." p297 Magic's Price: Brodie (the healer) "He formed his power into a bright green stilleto point and set to work." p308 Magic's Price: The Kyree: "The blue are those that were mages. The green, those that were Healers. The yellow, those that were god-touched, and the red, those that had mostly Mind-magic." Basically that's why I was confused as to why Starwind and Moondance had their respective aura colours.. I think I suggested that they both were healers (since both have part-green auras) but with different emphases. I don't understand though, why Moondance had a gold component rather than a blue in his aura (he was an Adept after all). The gold might correspond to the Kyree yellow, being god-touched.. but I'm still groping.. Ah well.. Hope this helps. Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 21:21:48 -0500 (EST) From: Jennifer Broekman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Deities Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 1995 s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu wrote: > On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Jennifer Broekman wrote: > > On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Korendil wrote: > > > Um...ever since Winds of Fate? It might just be me, but, uh, didn't the > > > gods Need spoke of remind ANYONE of those two? Personally, I wonder if > > > everything has just gotten muddled,or gotten clearer as time goes on? > > > Either Need is right and they're twins, or the Karsites and Shin'a'in are > > > right and they are consorts... > > Why _Winds of Fate_? We don't find out about the name similarity until > > _Strom Rising_. Need's deities are two *pairs* of twins, two male twins > > and two female twins, so their relationship to a four-faced moon goddess > > and a singly faced sun god is debatable at best. > Well there are 4 faces to each of the shin'a'in dieties maybe they only > worshipped 2 of these faces...realizing each face as a seperate god(ess) And maybe they're *really* worshipping Zeus and Hera, and the Shin'a'in've just tacked on extra attributes to each one, while Need's people split them each into two. Isn't this scraping the bottom of the barrel a bit extremely? Do we have *any* evidence for this theory other than the desire to make all goddesses one Goddess and all gods one God? Could it be that humans in general tend to conceptualize deities in male/female pairs and this, rather than some cosmic design of Misty's, is the reason why the Star-Eyed has a male counterpart and Need's deities are a pair of each? (All the male Hindu gods have female counterparts, the Wiccan Goddess has a son/husband God, the Greek gods all had spouses or counterparts, even Jehovah started out with a wife...) -jenneke jsb-+AT+-phantom.com new .sig in development ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:36:36 -0800 From: Staci Schoenfeld To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Di Tregarde Message-ID: <199512060236.SAA04798-+AT+-stealth.romoidoy.com> At 01:44 AM 12/6/95 GMT, Alice wrote: snip snip >After reading many pro-Di postings, I finally took the plunge and bought the >three books despite the awful covers (which I should have very well known >would have nothing to do with the actual books) and the typically misleading >back cover discriptions. I, too, just puchased and read all of the Di books these past two weeks. I enjoyed them a lot as they brought me back to the Lois Duncan books that I inhaled while a youngster and teen. Yes, the covers were awful, though -- I was almost embarrased to be seen carrying them around in public, but got over it once I started to read them. Haven't read Sacred Ground yet, though. Holding off on it while I finish up the SERRAted Edge books (I'm on Chrome Circle now). I just finished reading When the Bough Breaks today and have to say that it was my favorite of the series so far. Staci ------------------------------------------------------- Staci Schoenfeld http://www.zoom.com/personal/staci/staci1.htm ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 261 *********************************