MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 263 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Di Tregarde (new thread) by Absolut Flaming 2) Re: Di Tregarde by catharine pajunen 3) Re: A few points by PS9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu 4) Re: Di Tregarde (new thread) by "Kristin A. Ruhle" 5) Re: Di Tregarde (new thread) by "Kristin A. Ruhle" 6) Re: Storm Rising by "Eric M. Scarazzo" 7) Re: Aura colours by "Sanna Koulu" 8) Re: TLAs (and ETLAs) by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 9) Re: Favourite Series by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 10) Thy Listmistress Speaks by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 11) Re: Storm Rising by jacob clifton 12) Re: Storm Rising by "Sanna Koulu" 13) Re: Deities (+ religion) by "Sanna Koulu" 14) Re: Storm Rising by Jennifer Broekman 15) Favorite book/series by "Starhawk" 16) Re: Deities (+ religion) by Heather Mina 17) Re: Favourite Series by Richard Crawford 18) Re: Misty Filk reviews by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 19) Re: Favourite Series by Catherine Osborne 20) Re: Deities (+ religion) by PS9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu 21) *sigh* Farewell... *shrug* by Tina Newman R 22) Re: Deities (+ religion) by "Starhawk" 23) Re: Favourite Series by "Patrick S. Waterlander" 24) A review of SR, & chat by CHONNI ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 18:08:28 -0500 (EST) From: Absolut Flaming To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Di Tregarde (new thread) Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Adrienne York wrote: > Yes, it was a plot device, but it was explained. The collective > unconscience, or what have you, was booby-trapped so that Di's memory was > affected, IIRC. Misty told us why Di hadn't tripped to what the rest of > us would have guessed within thirty seconds of arriving on the scene. Yes, but my point is that she should have twigged to the setup that fast. She didn't hit the booby trap until fairly well into the investigation. It wasn't like the trance was the first thing she did upon arriving in Dallas. She shouldn't even have had to try the trance, given how incredibly obvious the crimes were. > Uh, maybe she doesn't sell much in Tulsa, and thought no one would > notice? I dunno Well, actually, she sells fairly well in Tulsa. The manager at one of the big WaldenBooks in Tulsa told me that her books are always some of the most consistent and best movers. And I know that she does lots of signings and the like for every new book, so she must be aware that she has a strong readership in the area. I have a feeling that it may have more to do with local pride and rivalry. She lives in Jenks (or so I have been given to understand) and she probably has some different ideas about it and about Tulsa. I live in SE Tulsa, near the library in the story. One other thing that is absolutely hilarious is that she talks about high-schoolers "cruising" Memorial Blvd. Ummm. This a 4-6 lane high traffic stretch of road. Nobody cruises on Memorial. It just isn't logistically possible. So, anyway, them's my opinions for the moment. Watcha gonna do about it? Kenny Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 19:30:55 -0500 (EST) From: catharine pajunen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Di Tregarde Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Dec 1995 ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com wrote: > Now that I have read the books (and even enjoyed them ;-), I am wondering if > the rumors earlier posted about there being no more coming are true? Does > anybody have inside info? Hmmmm. I haven't heard anything about the books, but if you get Volumes 1 & 2 of The Best of MZB's Fantasy Magazine (they're anthologies), you'll find two short stories. The first one was a shorter version of Children of the Night and the second was just *funny*!! And you'll be pleased to know that Andre was in both of them... Cathy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 21:20:48 CST From: PS9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A few points Message-ID: <32DA6EB1C76-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu> Rosetta said: > I dont' want to start the mindspeaking debate all over again, but > in Winds of Fury (book 3) Sayvil (the Companion not sure if I have > Savil and Sayvil the right way round) mindspeaks Darkwind, Firesong, > the Gryphons, Elspeth, Skif, Nyara and Kero all at the same time and > Kero says that Sayvil doesn't stick to the rules and that she expects > her companion to start mindspeaking non-mindspeakers soon - guess > that is proof that Companions can mindspeak all midnspeakers and a > hint that they can mindspeak non-mindspeakers. > I don't mean to start this debate again either, but there is a scene between Yfandes and Stefen in Magic's Price that supports this. Quote- :It's me, Bard.: Yfandes stalked stiffly up to him, and shoved his shoulder with her nose, knocking him over sideways. :What happened to Van? Where is he? All I remember is being darted.: He stared at Yfandes, stunned. She must be Mindspeaking me, but how? I don't have the Gift- "I don't know," he said aloud. "I-I ran away-" :I know that, boy,: she snorted, mentally and physically. :Which is exactly what Van told you to do, if you'll exercise your damned memory and stop having a crisis of conscience. And I can bespeak anyone I choose to, it's one of those abilities Companions try not to use if there's any way around it. Now how much time have you been wasting? Were the bastards still around, or where they gone when you came back here?: "Without darkness there can be no light" Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 22:25:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristin A. Ruhle" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Di Tregarde (new thread) Message-ID: <199512070625.AA29660-+AT+-foxtrot.rahul.net> > > On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Adrienne York wrote: > > > Yes, but my point is that she should have twigged to the setup that > fast. She didn't hit the booby trap until fairly well into the > investigation. It wasn't like the trance was the first thing she did > upon arriving in Dallas. She shouldn't even have had to try the trance, > given how incredibly obvious the crimes were. > > > Uh, maybe she doesn't sell much in Tulsa, and thought no one would > > notice? I dunno > > Well, actually, she sells fairly well in Tulsa. The manager at one of > the big WaldenBooks in Tulsa told me that her books are always some of > the most consistent and best movers. And I know that she does lots of > signings and the like for every new book, so she must be aware that she > has a strong readership in the area. I have a feeling that it may have > more to do with local pride and rivalry. She lives in Jenks (or so I > have been given to understand) and she probably has some different ideas > about it and about Tulsa. I live in SE Tulsa, near the library in the > story. One other thing that is absolutely hilarious is that she talks > about high-schoolers "cruising" Memorial Blvd. Ummm. This a 4-6 lane > high traffic stretch of road. Nobody cruises on Memorial. It just isn't > logistically possible. > Maybe they *outlawed* cruising there, as in many other communities? Hmm. I seem to recall from the last time I saw Misty at a con, plus other interviews, that Misty lives in Claremore, not Jenks, but she did spend time in Jenks "doing research" for _Jinx High._ Oh well. Her PO box is in Tulsa, and I'm sure her street address is a closely guarded secret. Kristin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 22:42:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristin A. Ruhle" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Di Tregarde (new thread) Message-ID: <199512070642.AA00534-+AT+-foxtrot.rahul.net> > > On Wed, 6 Dec 1995 ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com wrote: > > > Well, I will just go on record as saying that I liked _Children of the > Night_, and have a like-hate relationship with _Burning Water_ and _Jinx > High_. By "like-hate" I mean that I like Misty's prose style, as always, > but I think that both books have profound flaws in them that cause me to > scream "Why are you wasting your [Misty's] talent on these plots!!" > > There were a few problems with _Children of the Night_. Primarily: No > Japanese person of my acquaintance--and I know a lot of them--has ever > heard of a "gaki" as anything but a mischievous child or a benign > spirit, and I could only find one reference in my stuff on Japanese > folklore to a very rare type of "gaki" (the spirit) that was called a > "blood gaki" because it ate blood--NOT fear or souls or what have you. > However, I am willing to allow that this is a minor issue and just go > with the flow. > Hmm. I was struck by the parallels between gaki as Misty portrays them and the Dark Ones from Barbra Hambly's Darwath Trilogy (which I KNOW Misty has read - her song "Gil-Shalos" from the Magic (cubed) tape is based on it.) Did both authors study Japanese vampire myths, or what? > In _Burning Water_, though, I find that the flaws are too obvious to > ignore. I mean, is it only me, or does it seem like Misty is making the > character of Di dumb in order to salvage the plot. I hope this doesn't > offend anyone, but any occultist (or even folklorist) who wouldn't at > least have twigged to the possibility of an Aztec connection with that > first murder, IMHO, shouldn't be allowed out on the streets. I am not > even an occultist and I would have recognized it. Di's persistant > inability to get a clue seems like a device to make what should have been > a fast open/shut investigation into a novel. OOOhh! Every time I even > think of this book, I just want to scream!!! How could Misty do this to > us? And the really horrible thing is that, other than the probs I just > mentioned, it is *such* a well written book. I mean, her prose skills > were in peak condition, just not her plotting. > Well, she didn't "get it" at first because the bad guys were clouding her mind. I think that is actually explicitly stated at some point in the book. Also, it is the first Di Tregarde book, so the character was a bit less developed. > Finally, Jinx High. I would probably say that the biggest beef I have > with this has nothing to do with either the plot or the writing. Both > are relatively good. (I will admit that I think the plot could have been > dealt with differently and a few things tightened up, but on the whole it > was a good read.) My biggest prob with this book is that I am from > Tulsa. The whole time I was reading the book, I was thinking to myself > "Which Tulsa and Jenks is she writing about?" The characterizations > don't match anything that I have ever seen there. The characterization > of the library, in particular, is hilarious if you have ever been to the > library in question. Sure, the Tulsa City-County Library system is a > *big* system, but it is a very shallow one, too, and Martin Regional > (which is the one in the story) is awful. Nothing in it but fluff. And > I could go on. I suppose that I should have just read the story as if > the setting was completely fictional and had no relation to Tulsa or > Jenks, but I couldn't. Still, I will admit that for the average reader, > who knows nothing at all about Tulsa or Jenks, the story probably does > not present any problems. > I've never been to Oklahoma, but I can believe that the "local color" in Jinx High is based on only the most cursory glance at the region portrayed, obviously NOT from someone who actually lives there. I did go to a high school that is like Jenks in the sense that many of the students had parents who were loaded with money. Someone (who had his own axes to grind with Misty, but I won't go into that) once told me I should be really offended by Jinx High, because it was an "insult" to people from backgrounds like mine! Kristin Ruhle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 12:47:22 EST From: "Eric M. Scarazzo" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Rising Message-ID: <199512061758.MAA26947-+AT+-uva.pcmail.Virginia.EDU> Perhaps this is a question that people don't want to entertain but what _is_ everyone's favorite book / series? My favorite was the Herald Mage by far. The Storm series looks like it is going to be incredibly good, too, so long as Mercedes describes everything in enough detail. I guess that reason that I liked the Herald Mage series was that it felt like she took the time to make sure that the characters react realistically. I've felt that now that she's producing so many books a year she's lost some of the realism that made her such a good author. Comments? Eric Scarazzo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:35:26 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Aura colours Message-ID: <1D7144A3A35-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Adrienne York Wrote: > This is the thread on why is Starwind a blue-green aura and Moon* > blue-gold. Um, yellow + blue=green? I was thinking of that; then I thought that Moondance _is_ a Healer (of the body as well as of the land) so I think his green is the Healer showing through. Now Starwind: in his case the green might be his Adept blue mixing with god-touched yellow (--> blue + blue/yellow = blue + green). I think it's reasonable to assume that if aura colors are somehow related to the Gifts of the person, they'll mix in some way. Otherwise one might end up with speckled/striped/plaid/whatever auras... . One question is that _if_ the aura colors mix (lots of ifs here) is the mixing additive or ???. I mean, if you mix red and green _light_ you get yellow; if you mix red and green _dye_, you'll get a dirty brown. Which sounds a bit undignified... Whatever. Hey remember it's morning here! -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:32:27 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: TLAs (and ETLAs) Message-ID: <9512070932.AA09391-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > By th way what is IIRC ????? IIRC = If I Remember Correctly ISTR = I Seem To Recall IMHO = In My {Honest,Humble} Opinion YMMV = Your mileage may vary TLA = Three Letter Acronym ETLA = Extended Three Letter Acronym :-). -Jerry -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 10:03:03 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Favourite Series Message-ID: <9512071003.AA09741-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> Eric asked: > Perhaps this is a question that people don't want to entertain but what > _is_ everyone's favorite book / series? I'd go for the Last Herald Mage series, too :-). Overall, and subject to change without notice :-) I'd rate things as approximately: Last Herald Mage Vows & Honor/Storms/By The Sword Arrows Winds DI Tregarde/Sacred Ground (Mainly because these are Genre novels - they're good, but don't strike me as being books that only Misty could write, if you see what I mean :-). ) -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 10:09:58 GMT From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey Subject: Thy Listmistress Speaks Message-ID: <9512071009.AA17941-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Ahem. *taps microphone* Is this thing on? I know things have been getting a little frayed around the edges on the list over the last week or two. I'll be charitable and assume that at least part of it is down to the pre-holiday panic that happens around this time of year; end of term, finals for some, packing for others, shopping, organisation, etc etc etc. I too have been busy, which is why I haven't had a chance to step in earlier. The list is growing (see below), in general, which means that we will be gaining more new people, some of whom will be less experienced at using the net (and email in particular) than others. That said, there are various points that will apply to any mailing list (any that I know of, at least, which is quite a lot); trim quoted material as much as possible without losing attributions, think very carefully before posting one-liners, think before you post in general. I will be revamping the list intro message and the FAQ over the break (I hope!) and I'll post them again thereafter. But please, folks, take at least one deep breath before hitting that 'reply' key. This list has been a good place for the last -- what is it now? -- 20 months or so, and I have no intention of seeing it degenerate into a shouting match. Those of you who are leaving about now for the break, have a good one, and I hope to see you back in the New Year. Mel. P.S. As for the size of the list, I was startled to find recently that we were now about 3/4 of the size of another list I'm on, which I have always considered a 'big' list. Guess that makes this at least medium-sized. Anyone have any stats to hand on the 'average' size of a mailing list? -- M. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 04:10:15 -0600 (CST) From: jacob clifton To: "Eric M. Scarazzo" Cc: lackey list Subject: Re: Storm Rising Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Eric M. Scarazzo wrote: > Perhaps this is a question that people don't want to entertain but what > _is_ everyone's favorite book / series? My favorite was the Herald Mage by > far. The Storm series looks like it is going to be incredibly good, too, so > long as Mercedes describes everything in enough detail. well, i think it's a good question, but i've been holding off on reading Storms until i finished all the others again, and then i went to college so i had no time, and i've read no mage wars either--bad boy! picking up a new copy of Winds of Fury as soon as i finish "Change" again, and then to the Black Gryphon before Storm Rising (escapist fiction? ha! i'm working up a sweat here)--so, of the books i've read (Arrows, Vanyel, Vows&Honor, By the Sword, the first 1 1/2 of Winds that i remember, and the Tarma/Kethry stories from mom's old MZB paperbacks)--Lord i'm behind! how did this happen?--well, either Arrows, because it's the definitive Herald book (like, the basics, and setting up Elspeth and Selenay, et. al, and the roller coaster of the later books: "oh, she's running away =(, she's got a Companion =), she's getting raped and killed by Ancar =( etc.) or the Magic's P books, simply because the moral was something i really needed to hear at the time in my life i read the books--what a cliche--like, you pick up Vanyel, and you just imagine some poor teen picking up this book in the library and his/her life changing... self-acceptance and stuff...like that, but not as intense. anyway, talia, with vanyel a CLOSE second (but i really like by the sword, too, and...) oh, Zandru's Hells, why did i even bother *trying* to answer this question? sorry for this post... wind to thy wings, jacob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:56:57 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Rising Message-ID: <1D8703D2B89-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Eric M. Scarazzo wrote: > Perhaps this is a question that people don't want to entertain but what > _is_ everyone's favorite book / series? My favorite was the Herald Mage by > far. The Storm series looks like it is going to be incredibly good, too, so > long as Mercedes describes everything in enough detail. Hmm. Is this only Misty books or all kinds of books? If it's only Misty, my favorite is the LHM (sic), with KoGaS close second. (The worst Misty books in my opinion are Storms + Wheels of Fire. (Haven't read all of the collaborations though) I don't normally hold with burning books but... ) -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:12:48 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Deities (+ religion) Message-ID: <1D8B3CD0770-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Jenneke wrote: > On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Catherine Osborne wrote: > > > On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Jennifer Broekman wrote: > > > and two female twins, so their relationship to a four-faced moon goddess > > > and a singly faced sun god is debatable at best. > > Well, if you look at the Shin'a'in version of the sun god, he's got four > > faces. Well. Note that the male complement to the shin'a'in goddess is not a sun god. He is also four-aspected (Rover, Guardian, Hunter, Guide), which correspond with the phases of the moon. Personally I think that the shin'a'in just have one deity who's both male and female. > Yes, but that's the Shin'a'in God, not Vkandis, who was the one under > discussion. (And, no, I don't accept that they're one and the same, > Goddess-name similarities or no Goddess-name similiarities.) I think the Kalanel (didn't the karsites spell it that way, instead of Kalenel?) and Kal'enel name similarity is interesting, but I think making the conclusion that all the "gods" of Velgarth are really one male/female pair is pushing it way too far. That's about the same as saying Christianity, Judaism and Islam are really the same. The existense of gods on Velgarth hasn't been proven, either. What this comparison of deities is saying is that there are (only) two supreme beings watching over this planet, who are _intrinsically_ male and female, light and dark. Now that's a very popular conceptualization ... but I don't think we should make the statement "God exists" but rather "human concepts of God exist". Though we haven't seen any atheists or agnostics on Velgarth, I think there should be some. -Seanna the agnostic ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:49:14 -0500 (EST) From: Jennifer Broekman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Rising Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, jacob clifton wrote: > On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Eric M. Scarazzo wrote: > > Perhaps this is a question that people don't want to entertain but what > > _is_ everyone's favorite book / series? My favorite was the Herald Mage by > anyway, talia, with vanyel a CLOSE second (but i really like by the sword, > too, and...) oh, Zandru's Hells, why did i even bother *trying* to answer My favorite Misty book is probably _Oathbreakers_, probably because I like (as in, would like to hang out and chat with) Tarma more than probably any other character Misty has ever created. My favorite light fluff novel isn't a Misty novel at all at the moment, though; it's _Northanger Abbey_, by Jane Austen... -jenneke jsb-+AT+-phantom.com new .sig in development ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 10:20:31 EST From: "Starhawk" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Favorite book/series Message-ID: > Perhaps this is a question that people don't want to entertain but what >_is_ everyone's favorite book / series? My favorite was the Herald Mage by >far. The Storm series looks like it is going to be incredibly good, too, so >long as Mercedes describes everything in enough detail. Well, I have to say, that, even unfinished, my favorite series so far are the Storms, and my favorite book so far _Storm Warning_. (Note the "so far" ). Why? I guess I felt closer to Karal than to any of her other Characters. He doesn't have a Companion, he has no substantial Gift (except for the thing which he uses a grand total of TWICE in SW and SR). Not to mention that he's working as hard as he can to please a master who he loves like a father. Yeah, he's got flaws-- neuroses, a tendency to be hypercritical, and perhaps a bit of a narrow mindset at times. But I felt like I could relate to him better than, say, Talia, who is "perfect:" nurturing, self-effacing, sweet, pretty... I mean, I love Talia. She's a wonderful character. But I can't relate to her. And I certainly couldn't relate to Elspeth. I barely *liked* Elspeth until Winds of Fury. Besides, a lot of her personality stems from her Mage Gift (or how she deals with it), and while I have been known to spin stories out of thin air, I don't think I'll be dealing with nodes or ley lines anytime soon. :) Oh, and I absolutely ADORED Ulrich! He's like a lot of the profs here in my English Dept. (Where I am head secretary/grad student/resident force to be reckoned with :) Also, I felt that Misty's writing was better in this book than in her others. Not that the others weren't excellent, I just felt that SW was even more so. I liked her descriptive phrases, and I felt the story flowed more than her others. Also, the device she attempted in Winds of Fate (flipping between two storylines [Elspeth and Darkwind in WoFa, as opposed to Karal and Tremane in SW]) actually WORKED this time around. Well, I guess that's about it. (*Lyn hears chorus of: It was enough!) Later- Zhai'helleva-- Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "Be careful, Yarblek," the Nadrak dancer warned. "You still have your health, but I can fix that for you." -David Eddings, _Sorceress of Darshiva_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 10:23:45 GMT+0000 From: Heather Mina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Deities (+ religion) Message-ID: <9512071525.AA27739-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Seanna writes: > The existense of gods on Velgarth hasn't been proven, either. What >this comparison of deities is saying is that there are (only) two >supreme beings watching over this planet, who are _intrinsically_ male >and female, light and dark. Now that's a very popular >conceptualization ... but I don't think we should make the statement >"God exists" but rather "human concepts of God exist". Though we >haven't seen any atheists or agnostics on Velgarth, I think there >should be some. Do you remember when Thalkharsh first appeared in Oathbound? Kethry gave Tarma a lesson on how a being of any sort can elevate himself to god status. Her greatest fear was that Thalkharsh had managed to gather enough worshippers and enough mystical power to become a god. Therefore, I must believe that there are beings on (above? in a mystical plane near to?) Velgarth, who have worked their way up from ethereal beings/demons/people/disembodied souls/whatever to godhead. Not to mention Iftel's god, who everybody believes carefully watches over his kingdom. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Love is a butterfly, which when pursued is just beyond ~ ~ your grasp, but if you will sit down quietly it may ~ ~ alight upon you. --- Nathaniel Hawthorne ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ..... heamin-+AT+-sunshine.vab.unisysgsg.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 07:54:09 -0800 From: Richard Crawford To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Favourite Series Message-ID: <199512071554.HAA06961-+AT+-franc.ucdavis.edu> At 01:25 PM 12/7/95 GMT, you wrote: >Eric asked: >> Perhaps this is a question that people don't want to entertain but what >> _is_ everyone's favorite book / series? > I have to say _Arrows_ above everything else. Rich ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:30:02 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Misty Filk reviews Message-ID: <9512071627.AA23092-+AT+-baker> >Well, I've listened to Heralds, Harpers, & Havok and Shadow Stalker >quite a lot since I got them, so I thought I'd do a rating/mini-review >thing. you and i agree on a lot of the music! we must have similar tastes(which probibily explains why were here. but i have a few comments >>Demonsbane -- 9 > Catchy tune. Nice story. Was this story mentioned in LHM? (I > don't think it's the gretshke inicident from MProimise, unless this IS mentioned in LHM, but only in passing. this is one of those things that takes place in those years we don't see van. don't have a book handy for page # > >The Colddrake -- 8 > Um, Vanyel didn't use nodes to kill the colddrake. He didn't > even know what a node was until he was on his way to find > Krebain (Moondances little Gift explanation on Yfandes' back). did this song mention nodes? i guess i didn't notice that. while van might not have KNOWN about nodes, he could feel them. gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:05:57 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Favourite Series Message-ID: > >Eric asked: > >> Perhaps this is a question that people don't want to entertain but what > >> _is_ everyone's favorite book / series? Sundancer sends in another vote for anything with Vanyel in it ;) I\/ Catherine Osborne "After great pain, I\/ Sundancer a formal feeling comes." I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu --Emily Dickinson I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 14:07:05 CST From: PS9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Deities (+ religion) Message-ID: <33E6DD374A5-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu> Seanna said: > > > Yes, but that's the Shin'a'in God, not Vkandis, who was the one under > > discussion. (And, no, I don't accept that they're one and the same, > > Goddess-name similarities or no Goddess-name similiarities.) > > I think the Kalanel (didn't the karsites spell it that way, instead > of Kalenel?) and Kal'enel name similarity is interesting, but I think > making the conclusion that all the "gods" of Velgarth are really one > male/female pair is pushing it way too far. That's about the same as > saying Christianity, Judaism and Islam are really the same. > > > The existense of gods on Velgarth hasn't been proven, either. What > this comparison of deities is saying is that there are (only) two > supreme beings watching over this planet, who are _intrinsically_ male > and female, light and dark. Now that's a very popular > conceptualization ... but I don't think we should make the statement > "God exists" but rather "human concepts of God exist". Though we > haven't seen any atheists or agnostics on Velgarth, I think there > should be some. > I found it very intersting, to say the least, that in Oathbreakers, when Tarma "called" Kalanel and Roald and his Companion showed up that Kalanel called Roald and his Companion "Children of my Other Self" Any comments? "without darkness there can be no light" Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 14:10:29 -0600 (CST) From: Tina Newman R To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: *sigh* Farewell... *shrug* Message-ID: Before I joined this list, I had dealt with the Lackey Newsgroup quite a lot... I noticed a trend... perhaps even a correlation... That nearly all of the Lackey fans I had ever spoken to or met were genuinely nice people and tended to have a slight streak of Herald in them... inasmuch as they tended to be friendly and tried to be helpful. I can't tell you why that is, other than perhaps that most "bad" (or to be melodramatic about it) "evil" people wouldn't like something so selfless and the Velgarth World Books. However, since having joined this group, a lot of my naive suppositions. In the very few short weeks I've been here, I've seen some genuinely inteligent debate. I've seen some genuinely friendly people. But I've also seen some vindictive, nasty, flamers. Granted, no one is perfect, and there are always going to be trouble makers in any group, but over the past three days or so, it just hasn't been worth it to belong. I agree with a lot of the posts about rudeness.... and about flaming newbies... so I think it's timeto bis you all Zhai'helleva. I shall miss reading the intelligent posts, but I shant miss the flames. Hope things settle down for you all later.... and farewell to those who've been kind. If you realy feel like flaming me personally now, you all have my addreess... and to those kind souls who just want to write, you do too. *waves a wing at everyone* Bye. ~^~\' _- |`|*=~^~^~^~ Sorrow's dart of poison ~^~=\ /-^^\~ /``|**===^~^~^~ fell... A lance of pain ~^~^===\ ~/ .\ /``/****===^~^~ I know too well... ~^~^==~-/`.'.' ``/*****===^~^~ -FyreHawke- ~^~^== |`.' ``****==^~^~ mutrn-+AT+-uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:38:37 EST From: "Starhawk" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Deities (+ religion) Message-ID: [I think it was Seanna who wrote:] >> The existense of gods on Velgarth hasn't been proven, either. Then who's that lady with the funny eyes who keeps (quite materially) showing up? (When Kethry almost dies in Oathbreakers, and when she takes Dawnfire as an Avatar in Winds of Fate, are two of Her most spectacular appearances.) What of the sudden inceration of the Son of the Sun before Solaris? What about Iftel? Are you saying that Tarma's goddess-bond is nothing but a psychological delusion? If that's true, I would think it would make large chunks of the Tarma and Kethry cycle cruelly meaningless. >> conceptualization ... but I don't think we should make the statement >> "God exists" but rather "human concepts of God exist". Maybe that's true for *our* universe. I wouldn't agree with it, but given the lack of "miracles" these days, it could be said. However, I think there has been quite a bit of evidence that gods -- whether two or twenty -- exist in Velgarth. >>Though we haven't seen any atheists or agnostics on Velgarth, I >>think there should be some. Given the gods' tendency to be "divine busybodies" (as someone in Storm Warning or Rising), that indeed might be interesting. :) [then Stacy wrote:] >I found it very intersting, to say the least, that in Oathbreakers, >when Tarma "called" Kalanel and Roald and his Companion showed up >that Kalanel called Roald and his Companion "Children of my Other >Self" > Any comments? Given that she told Kethry in Oathbound that Kethry's Lady Windborn was just one of her many faces (BIIIG old paraphrase, there) I'd say that it lends credence to the theory that there are two primary gods: one male, one female, and they take different forms as different gropus of people percieve them. I could probably get into deep metaphysics here, but I don't need Anne tossing any more tennis balls my way. :) [Ah, the wonders of attending a Franciscan University...required philosophy classes. :P] Zhai'helleva-- Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "Be careful, Yarblek," the Nadrak dancer warned. "You still have your health, but I can fix that for you." -David Eddings, _Sorceress of Darshiva_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 14:17:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Patrick S. Waterlander" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Favourite Series Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Catherine Osborne wrote: > > >Eric asked: > > >> Perhaps this is a question that people don't want to entertain but what > > >> _is_ everyone's favorite book / series? Mannaheim sends in a vote for Vanyel too. -Wind to thy wings. \\\|/// | ~ ~ | (- o o -) =====================================oOOOo=(_)=oOOo====== | ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Infinity of UNB-+AT+-RN | | `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Clark College | | (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' Vancouver, WA | | _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Save patw-+AT+-clark.edu | | (il).-'' (li).' ((!.-' The Earth Oooo. | ======================================.oooO====( )====== ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 14:24:06 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: A review of SR, & chat Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Heather Mina wrote: > WOO-HOOOOO!!! > > Storm Rising is the book-of-the-month for the science fiction book club! > I've been *waiting* to get my hands on this one. Guess I'll quit reading > Shanarra and start reading all the Velgarth books again so I'm ready when it > comes... (first Talia, then Vanyel, then Tarma and Kethry, then Kero, then > Winds, then Gryphon, then Storm Warning... Told you I was anal-retentive > about the way I read my Misty!) > Well, I had my library order in Storm Rising (even with Misty, I try not to buy until I've already read it), and read the book (yes, all of it) Monday night. I'm now going to share some of my opinions on it, so those of us who haven't read it, I'm not going to give any real spoilers, but, well , I am going to talk/vent/praise it! Why does Misty always write in trilogies???? I adored Storm Warning because I could really get into the characters of An'desha and Karal. I firmly believe Misty's greatest strength as a writer is through characterization, and SW did it for me. But Storm Rising seemed too distant for me. And far far far too fast paced. The plot line of SR could have easily been extended into another book, and given Misty a chance to get into the characters. The plot line is one of the most complex Misty has dealt with in just one book, and after my first thought, "Gee, Misty's been reading way too much Robert Jordan" (I love Jordan too; how else could she have reminded me of it?), I had to wonder if Misty was using plot to cover up for a lack of depth in the characters. I don't mean to imply that her characters were shallow; far from it. The problem for me was that the characters' behaviour was difficult to sympathize with since I didn't have that initial bond with any of the characters. So I'm left wondering, is Misty being pressured into writing too fast too often? Storm Rising could have (for me) been an incredible book if Misty had taken more time to emote with Karal, Firesong and Silverfox. An'desha, though, was *really* good; unfortunately, there are a plethora of main characters (very Jordan-esque) that Misty simply doesn't have enough pages to develop! One of the main reasons I adore Misty's writing is that though her plots aren't too convoluted, the characters feel so real you want to meet them, or you feel like you already know them. Spoilers... Earlier, someone (it's been a few weeks) talked about Storm Rising, and complained about the romantic-overdose they saw in it. Now there I'd have to disagree. Part of the plot was Firesong's loneliness, and the problems he had in dealing with it. Sounds like my life! And as to why he was so affected by the Mage storms; I'll use the analogy of deep sea diving. Some people react to the pressure by getting what is called the bends; they become highly irrational and suspicious. If you've seen/read _The Abyss_ (I've done both), you'll know what I'm talking about. Now for what I liked......I really like the direction An'desha is taking. It's not too far fetched, and IMHO, is really suited to his personality. Also, the parts revolving around Tremane were great!!!!! Now here is one character in the book that Misty took time to develop! Remember our earlier conversations about grey evil characters? About how evil, or not, Tremane is? Misty works on this, and rather cleverly. Also, Misty gives tonnes of background info on lots of the things we've been heatedly debating, including: mindspeech, Companions as reincarnated(or not) Heralds, grey characters, lifebonds. Now, we might not all *agree* with Misty, but the ideas she presents should not only give all of us a new/reaffirmed point of view, but also spur some interesting, non-flaming (please?) debate. Now that I've said my piece, all I'll add is that it's -30 (celcius) outside (brrrr!!!), my next main read is _Alvin Journeyman_ by Orson Scott Card (can't wait!), I'm sending a thank you to everyone who sent me the name of the _Perilous Gard_ (I've borrowed it from the library), and to ask if anyone else is planning on going to Norwescon 18/19? in April in SeaTac (Seattle/Tacoma), Washington. It'll be my first con and man, am I excited! Oh, and re:newbies/rudeness...dont forget, lots of newbies (like i did when I first got on email) don't realize that the written word can come across differently than if it's spoken, and may write something that is rude/stiff/arrogant/annoying without realizing it. Ciao. *********************************************************************** * Why would I want my mind back? Who knows where it's been! * *---------------------------------------------------------------------* **************************** Chonni Brightwolf************************* ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 263 *********************************