MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 264 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Sheepish request by ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com 2) Question by diamond-+AT+-wizvax.net (Jill Wilber) 3) Re: Favourite Series by JR9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu 4) Re: Deities (+ religion) by Kitty Watermelon 5) Re: "Renthorn" by Kitty Watermelon 6) Re: "Renthorn" by Stephanie Wukovitz 7) Re: Deities (+ religion) -Beware: metaphysics! by "Sanna Koulu" 8) Re: Aura colours by Kim Hatton 9) Re: Storm Rising by s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu 10) Re: Favourite Series by Kim Hatton 11) holidays by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 12) Re: holidays by s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu 13) Re: "Renthorn" by Rosario Holsen-Baker 14) Re: Deities (+ religion) by "Starhawk" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:47:59 -0800 From: ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Sheepish request Message-ID: <951207154755_20061252-+AT+-hp1.online.apple.com> Hey Everybody! I apologize for posting this, but there's a lot of quoting of me (ARisemberg-+AT+-eWorld.com) that isn't quoting of anything I actually said. Can we be careful? I've been letting it lie, but some of the language of quotes attributed to me is borderline flaming, and I really don't want the rep unless I've earned it. Isn't that always the way? ;-) I hope you are all well and weathering the worst of early winter nicely. :) Wind to thy wings. -- Alice -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 19:03:32 -0500 (EST) From: diamond-+AT+-wizvax.net (Jill Wilber) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Question Message-ID: I can't remember how to get off the list and I haven't the time to read all the mail I get and it seems a waist to just stay on the list. Could someone tell me how you unsub from the list? Thanks. Diamond ------------------------------ Date: 7 Dec 95 18:23:28 CST From: JR9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Favourite Series Message-ID: <18A377038D5-+AT+-cub.uca.edu> My favorive series is the Last Herald Mage series. Pandora ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 22:14:35 -0700 (MDT) From: Kitty Watermelon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Cc: "St. Suika Fenderson Roberts" Subject: Re: Deities (+ religion) Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Starhawk wrote with more info.. > > Maybe that's true for *our* universe. I wouldn't agree with it, > but given the lack of "miracles" these days, it could be said. then I had to (chose to) stick my two cents in (I found them at the corner of Tucker and University {the pennies, two of them.} I sort of look at all the little miracles the day to day things that occure that make things better, the loose penny on the street, the uncalled for smile, the joy in a child's laugh, that many people giving a little can help so much....ect. Then the bigger but still unrecorded ones, like the way I can do something stupid and be forgiven, or the way the laws of physics as we know them get bent a little so that something awful is averted. So If you find yourself in the way of being an agent of miraculous go for it, Commit senseless acts of kindness, and random acts of beauty, and contribute to the proliferation of happiness. Oh and give yourself a break, its ok to be happy, and no I'm not always this cheerful, but I try. kitty > However, I think there has been quite a bit of evidence that > gods -- whether two or twenty -- exist in Velgarth. "That's funny. I talk to God all the time, and I don't remember him mentioning _your_ name." -The "Mouse", Ladyhawke ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 22:25:02 -0700 (MDT) From: Kitty Watermelon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: "Renthorn" Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Jean Morrill wrote: > Yikes! I just skimmed through 200 messages...I don't think anyone answered > this. > > Someone (sorry can't find who) wrote > > > I wouldn't be surprised. It sounds about right. Also, does anyone else > > > see something vaguely familiar about "Renthorn" as an antagonist? I seem > > > to remember seeing that name somewhere...or maybe it's just the lack of > > > sleep. The heraldic animal of Jame's family in _Godstalk_ is a Ranthorn. Hodgel is the author but I may be spelling it wrong. Kitty "That's funny. I talk to God all the time, and I don't remember him mentioning _your_ name." -The "Mouse", Ladyhawke ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 01:20:27 -0800 From: Stephanie Wukovitz To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk, steph-+AT+-newton.mbi.ucla.edu Subject: Re: "Renthorn" Message-ID: <9512080920.AA15114-+AT+-newton.mbi.ucla.edu> Renthorn sounds familiar to me too. Could we all be thinking of Master Rendan (not sure of spelling), the guy in charge of the band of nasty dudes near the end of Magic's Price? -Stephanie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 12:52:05 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Deities (+ religion) -Beware: metaphysics! Message-ID: <1F05BEF5F5B-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> StarHawk wrote: > [I think it was Seanna who wrote:] > > >> The existense of gods on Velgarth hasn't been proven, either. > > Then who's that lady with the funny eyes who keeps (quite > materially) showing up? (When Kethry almost dies in Oathbreakers, and > when she takes Dawnfire as an Avatar in Winds of Fate, are two of Her > most spectacular appearances.) What of the sudden inceration of the > Son of the Sun before Solaris? What about Iftel? Are you saying > that Tarma's goddess-bond is nothing but a psychological delusion? > If that's true, I would think it would make large chunks of the Tarma > and Kethry cycle cruelly meaningless. I'm not saying it's a psychological delusion. Obviously there exist (as perfectly as we can know -see I've been reading epistemology) beings that are superior to humans on Velgarth. I'm not necessarily happy about it, but that's the way it is in Misty's world. Now, I think to call these beings "gods" implies they precede, and possibly cause, Velgarth (the world). I think "god" implies "the creator of the world". I think the "gods" on Velgarth aren't this. Read: I don't think they created that world. As in Pratchett's Small Gods, I think that these beings were formed/personified/something by collective belief (which is what the demon in Oathbound indicates. Also the same world- view as in Blood Lines by Huff), because humans have a need for personified divinities/endless beings. > >> conceptualization ... but I don't think we should make the statement > >> "God exists" but rather "human concepts of God exist". > > Maybe that's true for *our* universe. I wouldn't agree with it, > but given the lack of "miracles" these days, it could be said. > However, I think there has been quite a bit of evidence that > gods -- whether two or twenty -- exist in Velgarth. There's superior beings. Calling them gods is the most practical way, but it makes some unprovable assumptions. > [then Stacy wrote:] > >I found it very interesting, to say the least, that in > >Oathbreakers, when Tarma "called" Kalanel and Roald and his > >Companion showed up that Kalanel called Roald and his Companion > >"Children of my Other Self" > > Any comments? Well, it should be spelled Kal'enel. Here it's important, 'cause "Kalanel" is the Karsite goddess (Consort of Vkandis) > Given that she told Kethry in Oathbound that Kethry's Lady Windborn > was just one of her many faces (BIIIG old paraphrase, there) I'd say > that it lends credence to the theory that there are two primary gods: > one male, one female, and they take different forms as different > groups of people perceive them. I have two objections to this theory: 1) Just because everyone thinks the world is flat (or round, on Discworld :) doesn't mean it's true. Meaning that even though there's miracles and such happening, which indicates the presence of transcendental beings (whether those are collective delusions or not), it doesn't mean these beings are gods. Or _primary_ gods. There have been "miracles" on this world, performed by a wide variety of prophets, avatars and holy people of various religions, but to infer from this that all those gods (or, indeed, any god) exists, is illogical. 2) I think that to say a god is "male" or "female" is silly, to say the least. Maleness/femaleness are physical attributes. A god (if they exist :) has never (rarely?) had a body, so to make a biological statement about them isn't really reasonable. One might worship Godhead as male or female, but that doesn't really say anything about the being/force/whatever. Transcendental beings by definition transcend humanity, so how could we understand them? Also, regarding the statement that all god(desse)s are one god(dess): note the difference between saying "all human conceptualizations of god have the same function and meaning to those humans" and "all existing supreme beings are aspects ("Other Selves") of the same supreme being). I hold with the former. This is in no way meant to disparage anyone's faith or religion. This happens to be what I believe in, but I recognize that my views are no more nor no less valid than anyone else's. I would welcome philosophical/psychological/metaphysical debate, but it might be a bit off-topic... Peace, and may the gods of your choice bless you -Seanna the soap-box philosopher ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 03:00:21 +1100 (EST) From: Kim Hatton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Aura colours Message-ID: <199512081600.DAA07653-+AT+-oznet02.ozemail.com.au> At 02:50 AM 6/12/95 GMT, Kerry wrote - somewhat edited for brevity's sake: >David wrote: >> Seanna wrote: >> > About aura colors: what do we know about them? Vanyel was also blue >> >aura-ed. If blue is the Mage-Gift, Moondance should also have it. Ditto with >> >Mind-Gifts. If green means Healer, Vanyel should have a touch of it... I guess >> >the colors don't really have much relevance to the Gifts of people (except >> >maybe the Gifted have stronger auras?), but are more about who the person is. >> I don't know if aura colours have anything to do with character types >> (thou I am inclined to agree) but I agrre in that they don't have >> much to do with what gifts are possesed. >I think that was shield colour that you're referring to (at least from >my rather hazy memory) and I agree, it's probably personality dependant >(maybe even as simple as what colour they like best). > >> Also I agree that there is some suggestion that Healer adepts >> always have green -blue auras. Quote(mpromise, pg285) "Vanyel got a >> very clear picture of Tayledras adepts; several of them, all of them >> radiating great power, including one with the peculiar blue-green >> aura of the rare Healer-Adept." >p283 Magics Pawn: > >"His [Starwind's] voice was a little deeper in pitch than Moondance's > and after a moment Vanyel recognized the 'feel' of him as being the > same as the 'blue-green music' in his dreams." > >p272 Magic's Pawn: >The blue-green music (Starwind) shows him basic shielding, the green-gold >music (Moondance) heals him.. > >p285 Magic's Promise: > >"Vanyel got a very clear picture of Tayledras Adepts; several of them, >all of them radiating great power, including one with the peculiar >blue-green aura of the rare Healer-Adept." > >p43 Magic's Promise: >Jisa to Van: "Felt you in my head, all blue-glowy and swirly." >"He nearly dropped her in shock. That was surely the most vivid - and >accurate - description of his aura he'd ever heard out of anyone but >another high-ranking Herald-Mage." > >p297 Magic's Price: >Brodie (the healer) "He formed his power into a bright green stilleto >point and set to work." > >p308 Magic's Price: >The Kyree: "The blue are those that were mages. The green, those that >were Healers. The yellow, those that were god-touched, and the red, >those that had mostly Mind-magic." > >Basically that's why I was confused as to why Starwind and Moondance >had their respective aura colours.. I think I suggested that they both >were healers (since both have part-green auras) but with different >emphases. I don't understand though, why Moondance had a gold component >rather than a blue in his aura (he was an Adept after all). >The gold might correspond to the Kyree yellow, being god-touched.. >but I'm still groping.. > Two different issues here I think - the colour of particular energy being used or present at the time eg Healing, and the aura of the person themselves. If we assume that the issues of energy colour and aura's in Misty's books parrallel those in our world - not necessarily true I know but at least some place to start. Then: 1. People manifest different coloured aura's based on their current level of development, issues at the time, personalities (for want of a better word) and particular skills. For instance, if someone has a particularly strong ketheric (from what I recall) level, which is one of the higher or outer auric field dealing with connectedness to for universal energy or God if you like, then this would manifest as a higher proportion of gold in their aura. And when they are accessing that link the gold would be the predominate colour. This somewhat parralels the yellow/gold of the "god touched" and possible the gold in Moondance. 2. You can harness different coloured energies to do different things. Normally, healing energy is considered green (particularly if there is an emotional content in the healing), red (if it is purely physical), blue green if what needs to be healed is caused by unexpressed emotions or issues (sometimes used for the likes of cancer etc). Kim Hatton Comment Oh, life is a glorious cycle of song, A medley of extemporanea; And love is a thing that can never go wrong; And I am Marie of Roumania. -Dorothy Parker- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 11:15:01 -0500 (EST) From: s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Rising Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Eric M. Scarazzo wrote: > Perhaps this is a question that people don't want to entertain but what > _is_ everyone's favorite book / series? My favorite is the Last Herald Mage. I just love Vanyel, he is such a tragic character. Ashke ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 03:35:43 +1100 (EST) From: Kim Hatton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Favourite Series Message-ID: <199512081635.DAA12851-+AT+-oznet02.ozemail.com.au> Eric asked: > Perhaps this is a question that people don't want to entertain but what > _is_ everyone's favorite book / series? Ah, that's a hard one - I like them all. But if I had to choose I'd go for the Last Herald Mage series. I really enjoyed the Di Tregarde series too - but maybe that's my paganist leanings showing. Its really frustrating hearing everyone talking about Storm Rising - I can't get it in Perth, Australia for another few weeks - boo hoo!! Kim Hatton PS Sorry that I didn't trim my last post enough. The other mailing list I subscribe to got upset because I was trimming too much - ah, how to find a happy medium. Comment Oh, life is a glorious cycle of song, A medley of extemporanea; And love is a thing that can never go wrong; And I am Marie of Roumania. -Dorothy Parker- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 17:27:00 GMT From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey Subject: holidays Message-ID: <9512081727.AA04112-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> For those of you who will be feeling a little short of things to do over the break, you could always re-read your favourite Lackey book -- or listen to your favourite tape/CD for that matter -- and write a review; I'm sure Jerry, who maintains the review archives, would be pleased of some more to put in them ... (end blatant plug :)) Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 13:25:03 -0500 (EST) From: s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: holidays Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Dec 1995, Melanie Dymond Harper wrote: > For those of you who will be feeling a little short of things to do over > the break, you could always re-read your favourite Lackey book -- or listen > to your favourite tape/CD for that matter -- and write a review; I'm sure > Jerry, who maintains the review archives, would be pleased of some more to > put in them ... Where would you send it to and what format would you like it in?? Ashke> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 17:05:58 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: "Renthorn" Message-ID: > Renthorn sounds familiar to me too. Could we all be thinking of > Master Rendan (not sure of spelling), the guy in charge of the > band of nasty dudes near the end of Magic's Price? > > -Stephanie > Uurk...Jaguar crawls out of her sickbed... That may be it. I don't remember how large the interval was between my reading of the two serieses (there goes my speech), but that could be it. If I was capeble of coherent thought I could probably come up with a list of villains with similar names...unfortunatly, I'm not coherent most of the time. :) |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | Three rings for the elven kings under the sky | | Seven for the dwarves in their halls of stone | | Nine for the mortal men, doomed to die | | One for the dark lord on his dark throne.... | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 09:20:36 EST From: "Starhawk" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Deities (+ religion) Message-ID: >On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Starhawk wrote with more info.. >> Maybe that's true for *our* universe. I wouldn't agree with it, >> but given the lack of "miracles" these days, it could be said. Kitty Watermelon wrote: > then I had to (chose to) stick my two cents in (I found them at the > corner of Tucker and University {the pennies, two of them.} > I sort of look at all the little miracles the day to day things ... >snip< That's why I put the word miracles in quotes; I was referring to the big splashy stuff most people require. I did not say that miracles do not exist. Just wanted to clear that up. :) Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "Be careful, Yarblek," the Nadrak dancer warned. "You still have your health, but I can fix that for you." -David Eddings, _Sorceress of Darshiva_ ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 264 *********************************