MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 286 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: hello! by Rosario Holsen-Baker 2) Re: hello! by Staci Schoenfeld 3) Re: Tylendel by EGLESTON-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG 4) Questions about LHM by EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com 5) RE: Queen's Own by "Sarah A. Elliott" 6) Re: Tylendel by EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com 7) Re: Tylendel by EGLESTON-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG 8) Re: Tylendel by Kitty Watermelon 9) Questions about LHM by Wallace-+AT+-online.knoxnews.com 10) Re: Questions about LHM by CHONNI 11) Re: Queen's Own by Becky Anne Christensen 12) Re: Tylendel by Becky Anne Christensen 13) Re: Tylendel by Becky Anne Christensen 14) Re: Questions about LHM by Becky Anne Christensen 15) Re: Tylendel by Becky Anne Christensen 16) Re: Queen's Own by be248-+AT+-scn.org (SCN User) 17) Re: Tylendel by be248-+AT+-scn.org (SCN User) 18) Re: Questions about LHM by be248-+AT+-scn.org (SCN User) 19) Re: Queen's Own by Becky Anne Christensen 20) Savil by Becky Anne Christensen 21) Re: Queen's Own by knelson-+AT+-ids2.idsonline.com (NELSON) 22) Fwd: Queen's Own by AlyxGMacK-+AT+-aol.com 23) Fwd: Tylendel by AlyxGMacK-+AT+-aol.com 24) Re: Question (AFall) by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 12:39:56 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: hello! Message-ID: Sundancer wrote: > I have a recommendation to make: a woman named Janny Wurts is in the > process of writing a five-book sequence called The Wars of Light and > Shadow. It's very well written with great characters. Also unique in that > the Master of *Shadow* as opposed to Light is the hero of the piece. He > bears some resemblence to our Vanyel, except with a few more > contradictions. Arithon (the hero) is great! They also feature a Vanyel - Arithon : wants to be a musician, could be if he wasn't fill-in-the-blank, condemned to a life of suffering, star-crossed romance, cursed with Gifts, cursed with Empathy/compassion That last is sort of unclear...hmmm. Arithon is cursed with a heriditary Gift of compassion and empathy, and Vanyel has the Heraldic conscience. I recommend these books, too! They are currently making the rounds among our friends, and the third one is about to be passed around. :) And for anyone who's seen the Michael Praed Robin Hoods (he IS Vanyel!!!), does anyone else think whats-his-name-who-plays-Gisbourne looks a bit like the picture of An'desha in Storm Warning? |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | I would there were no age between sixteen and three-and-twenty | | or that youth would sleep out the rest, | | for there is nothing in the between but | | getting wenches with child, wronging the ancientry, stealing, fighting | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 10:15:38 -0800 From: Staci Schoenfeld To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: hello! Message-ID: <199601021815.KAA28738-+AT+-stealth.romoidoy.com> At 05:19 PM 1/2/96 GMT, you wrote: >I have a recommendation to make: a woman named Janny Wurts is in the >process of writing a five-book sequence called The Wars of Light and >Shadow. It's very well written with great characters. I am very happy to hear that you think these books are worth reading! I was sorting through my books yesterday, making a shelf for the ones I have yet to read, and realized that I have not one but two copies of "The Curse of the Mistwraith". I guess I keep thinking that it looks good! wind to thy wings, Staci ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 13:50:02 -0500 (EST) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendel Message-ID: <960102135002.bc8-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG> Just to add my two cents -- I think that Tylendel was also buried with honors because the Death Bell rang for him when he died. I can't find the reference at the moment, but I'm pretty sure that the bell rings of its own accord when a Herald dies. And if the bell rang for Tylendel, then he was -- when he died -- a Herald. It wasn't a judgement made by a human judge. Cindy D. (who still hasn't come up with a clever by-line *sigh*) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 14:34:25 -0500 From: EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Questions about LHM Message-ID: <960102143424_29723163-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> I was flying back and forth from MA to CA over the holidays and reread the Last Herald Mage trilogy on the plane. I noticed somethings I didn't before and wanted to ask what everyone else thought about them. Or at least the few of us that are left with the holidays!:) The first thing is when Vanyel and Tylendel get together and have sex. They have just been together one night and Tylendel asks Van about moving into his room. Savil seems to think this is fine and doesn't mind at all. Now no one at that time knew they were bonded and in fact most didn't know until just before Tylendel died or right after. So doesn't that seem a bit quick and odd to anyone else. One night doesn't normally make a relationship. I know they talked a lot and stuff but come on really. I don't know why I never noticed it before. Any opinions? The second thing that I wanted to ask about is life bonding in general. Misty provides us with two very different examples with her main characters in Van's series and Talia's. I got the impression that Vanyel and Tylendel just sort of fell in together and their bond strengthened over time to a point where Tylendel could use Van's mage potential to make that gate. Now they certainly had an instant reaction to just meeting and seeing each other but it took they a little while before they acted on it. But it seemed that the two were thinking about each other a lot and it just built over time. However with Talia and Dirk we seem to have something different. They meet when she is coming in from being chosen, briefly. Then not for awhile and she seems to forget him completely. Then it becomes a matter of them bumping into each other. Eventually the two get closer along with Kris who sort of muddies the water for everyone for awhile; through no fault of his own. But for a long time Dirk seems to deny it and so does Talia. So they both suffer and are miserable. It takes a crisis and Talia's almost death to bring them together. Comparing the two you would almost think it was two different things happening there. So do life bondings just happen and the two can't really control it? It would seem to be that way from these examples. If that is the case it seems like they could be a curse as well as a blessing for the couple. What does everyone think about that? Does anyone think that in our world people can become that close to each other or is it just a fantasy? I know we covered a lot of stuff about Van over the summer but I don't remember specifically talking about these things. Sorry if we did though. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 14:34:32 -0500 From: "Sarah A. Elliott" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: Queen's Own Message-ID: <01BAD920.2C635C40-+AT+-eclair.donet.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAD920.2C6C8400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In Arrow's of the Queen.... It says that the Queen's Own Companion is = always a stallion, and lives virtually forever.... If his chosen dies.. = then he goes and chooses another to be Queen's Own, I think the Queen's = Own companion is the exception to the Herald/Companion bond when the = chosen dies. AOQ also said that if the Queen's Own companion dies... = then another just appears in the grove and goes to choose either the = current Queen's Own, if they are still alive, and if not, then they run = right out to choose another..... I haven't read the rest of ther series = yet.... but I am working on it! If anyone has more insight on this subject, please feel free to = elaborate.... I am feeling not too eloquent with words right now! -Sarah ---------- From: Becky Anne Christensen[SMTP:beckyanne-+AT+-iforge.valleynet.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 1996 12:45 AM To: sarah-+AT+-glazed.donet.com Subject: Queen's Own Okay, the book says that when the current queen's own dies, the = companion=20 goes out and usually picks another herald to be the new queen's own. BUT = aren't the herald/companion bondings for life? Wouldn't the new queen's=20 own old companion die? Do companions die of old age? Or only if their=20 herals does? Because if the queen's own died, and the companion picked a = new one, then that one died, and the companion didn't, it could be=20 hundreds of years old. Or, if the queen's own companion dies, would the=20 queen's own die as well? 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Tylendel jumped off the bell tower once they gated back to Haven. Vanyel collapsed and the gate caused some wild weather so they didn't get a chance to stop Tylendel from jumping. He was mad with grief and pain from losing first his twin brother and then Gala when she suicided. He was pretty well gone from losing his brother anyway and the second loss totally threw him over the edge. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 15:46:21 -0500 (EST) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendel Message-ID: <960102154621.570-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG> Becky asked why Tylendel was given full Herald honors when he died, and I pointed out that the Death Bell rang for him, but I couldn't find the reffie on the supernatural nature of the Death Bell then. Now I've found it, in _Arrows of the Queen_, chapter 8, pp. 188-189, in my copy. It also raises another interesting question. Skif says "Every Herald knows when another one dies and whether or not it was from natural causes. You start to get the sensing of it around about your third year--" etc. If you aren't a full Herald, but a trainee just starting, (i.e. before your third year) and something gets you killed, does the Death Bell ring? Can Herald trainees flunk? Cindy D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 14:03:14 -0700 (MDT) From: Kitty Watermelon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendel Message-ID: Sorry, I don't think that I was the one writing those letters. Not all there or some such. So, forgiven? I am not sure, having just come back from postponement, if I'm answering the same thing as others or not. He was buried in Whites as a sign that he had earned the right to wear them and die honorably. I think that lifebonding can happen, because it is in so many stories and beliefs from around the world. Japan is one of the strongest supporters. It had better be possible, or I'm wasting my time and energy. Of course, off subject, I have the same argument about deities. Ehh. And reincarnation. And......anyways, 'nuff said. If you believe in something wholeheartedly you can make it true. I made myself hate raisons, see ghosts, and helped to create a _very_ power hungry goddess (not completely sure, but that's the point). By thinking strongly on one thing, I can change it. If everyone believes in lifebonding, they can find an ashke for their very own. I'm noticing an explanation might be in hand. Those letters that I wrote before I left were a little overdue, and so seemed very nasty to me. I don't mean to be offensive to anybody, and I'm sorry if I'm being evil, sick, crude, rude, obnoxious, boring, annoying....etc. I do appreciate any help you can lend, and any constructive comments regarding my attitude are appreciated. Thank you for any help you can give. Zoe Guin Kitty "When I get all steamed up, hear me shout." -Teapot ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jan 1996 16:23:36 EDT From: Wallace-+AT+-online.knoxnews.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Questions about LHM Message-ID: <9601022123.AA27704-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> ME>I was flying back and forth from MA to CA over the holidays and reread the ME>Last Herald Mage trilogy on the plane. I noticed somethings I didn't before ME>and wanted to ask what everyone else thought about them. Or at least the fe ME>of us that are left with the holidays!:) (snip, snip) ME>The second thing that I wanted to ask about is life bonding in general. ME> Misty provides us with two very different examples with her main characters ME>in Van's series and Talia's. I got the impression that Vanyel and Tylendel ME>just sort of fell in together and their bond strengthened over time to a ME>point where Tylendel could use Van's mage potential to make that gate. Now ME>they certainly had an instant reaction to just meeting and seeing each other ME>but it took they a little while before they acted on it. But it seemed that ME>the two were thinking about each other a lot and it just built over time. ME> However with Talia and Dirk we seem to have something different. They meet ME>when she is coming in from being chosen, briefly. Then not for awhile and ME>she seems to forget him completely. Then it becomes a matter of them bumpin ME>into each other. Eventually the two get closer along with Kris who sort of ME>muddies the water for everyone for awhile; through no fault of his own. But ME>for a long time Dirk seems to deny it and so does Talia. So they both suffe ME>and are miserable. It takes a crisis and Talia's almost death to bring them ME>together. Comparing the two you would almost think it was two different ME>things happening there. So do life bondings just happen and the two can't ME>really control it? It would seem to be that way from these examples. If ME>that is the case it seems like they could be a curse as well as a blessing ME>for the couple. What does everyone think about that? Does anyone think tha ME>in our world people can become that close to each other or is it just a ME>fantasy? ME>I know we covered a lot of stuff about Van over the summer but I don't ME>remember specifically talking about these things. Sorry if we did though. ME>Eric IMHO, we make entirely too much out of the *differences* ML writes about as far as lifebonds. Do you fall in love the same way each time? Do you react the same to any given situation all the time? I sure don't. There have been people in my life whom I truly cared about (no lifebond, tho!) but I surely didn't follow a set formula, and I feel it's somewhat unrealistic :-) to expect her characters to do so. I wouldn't enjoy her books as much as I do if every character reacted the same way as the others. Just my HO! Candace ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jan 1996 14:55:26 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Questions about LHM Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Jan 1996 EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > until just before Tylendel died or right after. So doesn't that seem a bit > quick and odd to anyone else. One night doesn't normally make a > relationship. I know they talked a lot and stuff but come on really. I > don't know why I never noticed it before. Any opinions? Well, Savil and Tylendel were mindspeakers, so it would have been fairly easy for her to discover the bond. Remember, the other two herald-trainees were lifebonded, giving Savil something real to compare Lyndel and Van's bond to. > The second thing that I wanted to ask about is life bonding in general. (lots snipped) > together. Comparing the two you would almost think it was two different > things happening there. So do life bondings just happen and the two can't > really control it? It would seem to be that way from these examples. If > that is the case it seems like they could be a curse as well as a blessing > for the couple. What does everyone think about that? Does anyone think that > in our world people can become that close to each other or is it just a > fantasy? In all of the lifebonds that Misty uses in her novels (there are five or six of them, including the Gryphon books), life bonds DO just seem to happen, and can't really be controlled... In the _Silver Gryphon_, the king almost makes a sacriligious (sp?) mistake when he tries to marry Winterhart; in their country, lifebonds are created by the Gods, and may be broken by no one. The lifebond can be like a curse, in that the couple (or trio; Keren/Ylsa/Sha???) are so close that they can't be separated for too long, or they start to lose it, and become irrational irritating people.... On the other hand, when their together, they're complete. Yes, I do think people can get as close as lifebonds in this world; the question is, do you really want to? At least lovebonds are voluntary... And thanks to all who congratulated my on getting my Whites... funny thing is, I just got my issue of QO this morning and didn't log on till today, and so I would have known about the honour on the 22nd, if only I'd been near my computer! *********************************************************************** * Why would I want my mind back? Who knows where it's been! * *---------------------------------------------------------------------* ***********************Herald Chonni Brightwolf************************ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 16:15:19 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: Mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Queen's Own Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Jan 1996 Dalisair1-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > As a grove companion such as the Queens own companion ALWAYS is, they have > (I gather) altogether different rules. In Arrows of the Queen Rolan Was the > companion of the former Queens own. They also state in the book that if the > Companion or the Herald falls the other finds a new Bondmate (A new Queens > Own like Talia or a new Grove born Companion). But your observation is true > in thinking that the death of a companion or the Herald is usually Fatal to > the other. Also remember that Talia relises that Roland is PROBABLY the > source of the wisdom that she suddenly posseses when she councles the Queen > (in Arrows). > > With a raging headache hoping that made sense. > > Robert > Actually, it does, I went back and reread all the things I had found, and now it is much more clear to me. Thank you so much! (:*BECKY*:) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 16:18:34 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: Mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendel Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Jan 1996 Dalisair1-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > God Becky do you always come up with all the hard questions? Tylendel was > burried with full honors because he was not in his right mind when he did > what he did. He was overcome with rage and grief that was eating him from the > inside out. If I rember correctly he commited suicide once he relised what he > had done (jumped didn't he?). All blamed themselves for not relising that he > was slightly unstable. (Slightly? Well I do have a gift for > understatement...) > > Still with that Migraine, > Robert > Well, I'll never learn if I don't ask questions, and the easy ones aren't nearly as much fun:) I do get it now, it makes a lot more sense. Sorry about the migraine, hope me and my many questions weren't the cause:) (:*BECKY*:) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 16:50:55 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendel Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Jan 1996 EGLESTON-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG wrote: > Just to add my two cents -- I think that Tylendel was also buried with > honors because the Death Bell rang for him when he died. I can't find > the reference at the moment, but I'm pretty sure that the bell rings of > its own accord when a Herald dies. And if the bell rang for Tylendel, > then he was -- when he died -- a Herald. It wasn't a judgement made by > a human judge. > > Cindy D. (who still hasn't come up with a clever by-line *sigh*) You're right, it does ring all by itself, because there is nothing attached to it to make it ring. It does make sense now. Thanks! (:*BECKY*:) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 17:03:13 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Questions about LHM Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Jan 1996 EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > I was flying back and forth from MA to CA over the holidays and reread the > Last Herald Mage trilogy on the plane. I noticed somethings I didn't before > and wanted to ask what everyone else thought about them. Or at least the few > of us that are left with the holidays!:) > The first thing is when Vanyel and Tylendel get together and have sex. > They have just been together one night and Tylendel asks Van about moving > into his room. Savil seems to think this is fine and doesn't mind at all. > Now no one at that time knew they were bonded and in fact most didn't know > until just before Tylendel died or right after. So doesn't that seem a bit > quick and odd to anyone else. One night doesn't normally make a > relationship. I know they talked a lot and stuff but come on really. I > don't know why I never noticed it before. Any opinions? Maybe it was rushed, but they could have known about the lifebond on an unconscious level. Savil could have sensed "rightness" about the whole thing. (:*BECKY*:) > > The second thing that I wanted to ask about is life bonding in general. > Misty provides us with two very different examples with her main characters > in Van's series and Talia's. I got the impression that Vanyel and Tylendel > just sort of fell in together and their bond strengthened over time to a > point where Tylendel could use Van's mage potential to make that gate. Now > they certainly had an instant reaction to just meeting and seeing each other > but it took they a little while before they acted on it. But it seemed that > the two were thinking about each other a lot and it just built over time. > However with Talia and Dirk we seem to have something different. They meet > when she is coming in from being chosen, briefly. Then not for awhile and > she seems to forget him completely. Then it becomes a matter of them bumping > into each other. Eventually the two get closer along with Kris who sort of > muddies the water for everyone for awhile; through no fault of his own. But > for a long time Dirk seems to deny it and so does Talia. So they both suffer > and are miserable. It takes a crisis and Talia's almost death to bring them > together. Comparing the two you would almost think it was two different > things happening there. So do life bondings just happen and the two can't > really control it? It would seem to be that way from these examples. If > that is the case it seems like they could be a curse as well as a blessing > for the couple. What does everyone think about that? Does anyone think that > in our world people can become that close to each other or is it just a > fantasy? > I know we covered a lot of stuff about Van over the summer but I don't > remember specifically talking about these things. Sorry if we did though. > Eric > In Winds of Fury, I think, when Vanyel "kidnaps" Elspeth, Darkwind, Firesong, Trevan, etc... Stefan goes off and talks with Skif and Nyara. He explains a lot about lifebonding. He does say it is more like an accident, if I remember correctly. It could be that the people with lifebondings react to them differently, causing them to appear diffeent. One thing I've noticed, the books all say lifebonding is rare, and even rarer among heralds. Selenay & Daren, Talia & Dirk, Elspeth & Darkwind, Vanyel & 'Lendel, Vanyel & Stefan, Randale & Shivra, Jisa & I forgot his name, Keren & Sherril, Keren & Ylsa, and that's all I can remember, are all lifebonded and are all Heralds (excluding Stefan). And Amberdrake & Winterhart are bonded too, my guess is tht they WOULD have been heralds, but were born in the wrong time. Just something I noticed, seems kinda odd.... (:*BECKY*:) who just finished the last 2 books in the Last Herald Mage trilogy! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 17:08:46 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendel Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Jan 1996 EGLESTON-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG wrote: > Becky asked why Tylendel was given full Herald honors when he died, and > I pointed out that the Death Bell rang for him, but I couldn't find > the reffie on the supernatural nature of the Death Bell then. Now I've > found it, in _Arrows of the Queen_, chapter 8, pp. 188-189, in my copy. > > It also raises another interesting question. Skif says "Every Herald > knows when another one dies and whether or not it was from natural causes. > You start to get the sensing of it around about your third year--" etc. > > If you aren't a full Herald, but a trainee just starting, (i.e. before > your third year) and something gets you killed, does the Death Bell ring? > > Can Herald trainees flunk? > > Cindy D. > I suppose that it depends on if they were ready to be a herald. Herald trainees probably COULD flunk, but wouldn't just because of the very nature of Heralds. (:*BECKY*:) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 17:09:02 -0800 From: be248-+AT+-scn.org (SCN User) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Queen's Own Message-ID: <199601030109.RAA04887-+AT+-scn.org> > >Okay, the book says that when the current queen's own dies, the companion >goes out and usually picks another herald to be the new queen's own. BUT >aren't the herald/companion bondings for life? Wouldn't the new queen's >own old companion die? Do companions die of old age? Or only if their >herals does? Because if the queen's own died, and the companion picked a >new one, then that one died, and the companion didn't, it could be >hundreds of years old. Or, if the queen's own companion dies, would the >queen's own die as well? > > (:*BECKY*:) Herald/Companion bonds aren't necessarily for life, one or the other of the partners can survive, however, they usually die soon after because they are bereft of the other partner, which is why they say it is for life. Also, the Queen Own's Companion is different from most Companions because he is always a Stallion and alway Grove-Born, therefore, he continues on, picking Heralds to be Queen's Own until he dies, at which time a new Companion comes out of the Grove and assumes his duties. Yes, Companions can die from old age, but only as long as their Herald survives that long as well, for I haven't heard of a Companion surviving when his Herald dies. Just my thoughts... Zhai'helleva, Herald Briana -- Denise Abbott Herald Briana Kestyl wc814-+AT+-freenet.victoria be248-+AT+-scn.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 17:13:04 -0800 From: be248-+AT+-scn.org (SCN User) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendel Message-ID: <199601030113.RAA06426-+AT+-scn.org> > > Okay, in Magic's Pawn, when Tylendel dies, he is buried as a full >herald, but in Magic's promise, they say he was repudiated. If he was >repudiated by Gala, then why would he be buried as a full herald? > > (:*BECKY*:) They buried him as a full Herald because he went insane before Gala repudiated him. He was considered insane after he experienced his twin, Staven's death. Just my thoughts... Zhai'helleva, Herald Briana -- Denise Abbott Herald Briana Kestyl wc814-+AT+-freenet.victoria be248-+AT+-scn.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 17:32:18 -0800 From: be248-+AT+-scn.org (SCN User) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Questions about LHM Message-ID: <199601030132.RAA13625-+AT+-scn.org> > > >On Tue, 2 Jan 1996 EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > >> until just before Tylendel died or right after. So doesn't that seem a bit >> quick and odd to anyone else. One night doesn't normally make a >> relationship. I know they talked a lot and stuff but come on really. I >> don't know why I never noticed it before. Any opinions? >Well, Savil and Tylendel were mindspeakers, so it would have been fairly >easy for her to discover the bond. Remember, the other two >herald-trainees were lifebonded, giving Savil something real to compare >Lyndel and Van's bond to. As I remember, Savil had to be told by her Companion after the incident in the grove (not sure on that), but I know she was told. IMHO, the reason they moved in with each other is the "talk" `Lendel had with Savil that night, the one they had a few days earlier about him either killing himself of bebauching himself until he had the mind of a shrub, and that `Lendel had a pretty common habit of hopping in and out of beds. Just my thoughts... Zhai'helleva, Herald Briana -- Denise Abbott Herald Briana Kestyl wc814-+AT+-freenet.victoria be248-+AT+-scn.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 18:52:48 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Queen's Own Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, SCN User wrote: > > > >Okay, the book says that when the current queen's own dies, the companion > >goes out and usually picks another herald to be the new queen's own. BUT > >aren't the herald/companion bondings for life? Wouldn't the new queen's > >own old companion die? Do companions die of old age? Or only if their > >herals does? Because if the queen's own died, and the companion picked a > >new one, then that one died, and the companion didn't, it could be > >hundreds of years old. Or, if the queen's own companion dies, would the > >queen's own die as well? > > > > (:*BECKY*:) > > Herald/Companion bonds aren't necessarily for life, one or the other of > the partners can survive, however, they usually die soon after because > they are bereft of the other partner, which is why they say it is for > life. Also, the Queen Own's Companion is different from most Companions > because he is always a Stallion and alway Grove-Born, therefore, he > continues on, picking Heralds to be Queen's Own until he dies, at which > time a new Companion comes out of the Grove and assumes his duties. Yes, > Companions can die from old age, but only as long as their Herald > survives that long as well, for I haven't heard of a Companion surviving > when his Herald dies. > > Just my thoughts... > > Zhai'helleva, > Herald Briana > > -- > Denise Abbott > Herald Briana Kestyl > wc814-+AT+-freenet.victoria > be248-+AT+-scn.org > One more question It does say in Arrows of the Queen that the new Monarch's Own is usually already a Herald, right? So if he/she was already a Herald, then he/she would already have a Companion. Would they give up their first Companion to bond to the Monarch's Own Companion? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Heralds have a deep bond with their Companions, how could a Herald just give up his first Companion? (:*BECKY*:) I'm so happy because after finishing the last two books in the Last Herald Mage trilogy, I am completely caught up with her books so far. Can't wait for the Silver Gryphon....or the rest of the mage storms trilogy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 18:58:33 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: "Everyone:)" Subject: Savil Message-ID: If Heralds Do come back as Companions, would Kero's Sayvil really be VAnyel's Aunt, Herald-Mage Savil? If I recall right, that is what Kero's Companion's name is, they seem to have similar personality traits..... (:*BECKY*:) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 22:26:40 -0500 From: knelson-+AT+-ids2.idsonline.com (NELSON) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Queen's Own Message-ID: <199601030326.WAA15536-+AT+-ids2.idsonline.com> >Okay, the book says that when the current queen's own dies, the companion >goes out and usually picks another herald to be the new queen's own. BUT >aren't the herald/companion bondings for life? Wouldn't the new queen's >own old companion die? Do companions die of old age? Or only if their >herals does? Because if the queen's own died, and the companion picked a >new one, then that one died, and the companion didn't, it could be >hundreds of years old. Or, if the queen's own companion dies, would the >queen's own die as well? > > (:*BECKY*:) > >If the companion expires then a new one is born from the grove. The companions don't always die when their chosen do. It seems that the ones that are spawned from the grove are much more special than the average companion! Kristy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 23:46:03 -0500 From: AlyxGMacK-+AT+-aol.com To: Mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Fwd: Queen's Own Message-ID: <960102234603_82903582-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: Queen's Own Date: 96-01-02 02:05:53 EST From: AlyxGMacK To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk In a message dated 96-01-02 00:43:56 EST, you write: >Okay, the book says that when the current queen's own dies, the companion >goes out and usually picks another herald to be the new queen's own. BUT >aren't the herald/companion bondings for life? Wouldn't the new queen's >own old companion die? Do companions die of old age? Or only if their >herals does? Because if the queen's own died, and the companion picked a >new one, then that one died, and the companion didn't, it could be >hundreds of years old. Or, if the queen's own companion dies, would the >queen's own die as well? > > (:*BECKY*:) > > It also states if the Queen's Own Companion dies, another will come from the Grove, if the Queen's Own is still alive (this is possible, after all if you can survive the severing of a lifebond which we've seen with Vanyel\Tylendel, Vanyel\Stefan and Keren\Ylsa) then the Companion immediately chooses them again. And the Monarch's Own Stallion isn't a *natural* beast though it can be killed. ::shrugs:: Just an opinion. :) Alyx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 23:46:30 -0500 From: AlyxGMacK-+AT+-aol.com To: Mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Fwd: Tylendel Message-ID: <960102234629_82903817-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: Tylendel Date: 96-01-02 02:05:32 EST From: AlyxGMacK To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk In a message dated 96-01-02 00:47:18 EST, you write: > > Okay, in Magic's Pawn, when Tylendel dies, he is buried as a full >herald, but in Magic's promise, they say he was repudiated. If he was >repudiated by Gala, then why would he be buried as a full herald? > > (:*BECKY*:) > > It also says in Magic's Pawn that the Companions rang the Death Bell for him. They knew he was insane and they knew why Gwene repudiated him. In death, he redeemed himself and was given a second chance. The Heralds are humans after all :D Alyx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jan 96 16:27:03 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Question (AFall) Message-ID: <9601030527.AA15629-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Seanna wrote: > Kerry wrote: > > On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Sanna Koulu wrote: > > > I confess, I'm occasionally stupid... I didn't understand in AFall, > > > when Dirk is talking to Elspeth about the "no one true way" creed, > > > _why_ Valdemaran clergy were forbidden to pray for a victory in war. > > > Could someone who knows the answer explain? > > I think the third and most important reason is that it helps prevent > > religious civil war *inside* Valdemar. Remember, Valdemar is a patchwork > > quilt of religions and beliefs etc and if you allow priests to pray for > > victory (especially in a world where results can be tangible and immediate) > > against other religious orders, then you've set up a tinderbox. > > (sorry for not cutting more, I'm too brain-dead to). Are you implying I was brain-dead? Damn.. and they *promised* me no-one would be able to tell. (Hmmm, maybe I admitted it in that earlier post - wonder if that voids the warranty?) I want my money back! That lobotomy showed! :) > I think this theory sounds depressing. So - mundane! Besides, we're > assuming that gods can be swayed by mortals' prayers. I think that's > traha in the Valdemarans. I was hoping for some reason connected > with Heraldic ethics... :) Mundane? Hmmm, true.. but see Occam. Most ethics have good strong reasons behind them (I mean before they become so entrenched in our heads that they become part of us). Most ethics relate to anti-social behaviour so it's in society's interest to develop taboos and ethics restricting or limiting that behaviour (eg it disrupts the normal flow of society if people consistently lie about major things and steal and kill etc - please no statistics on current crime rates). :) Seriously, I think you have to assume that whoever made the original law (King/Baron Valdemar?) believed that mortals could sway [attract the attention of?] gods with their prayers. If you don't, then there's no explanation for the prohibition since the prayers wouldn't have any effect. (Actually there would be a reason if you admit the anti-civil-war effect of the prohibition but you didn't like that one). Hmm, this could constitute dousing myself in naptha and juggling matches but here goes: Maybe it's me.. I have trouble with Heraldic ethics - I think I'm too much a pragmatist at heart even if I like to think of myself as a nice person. An example - I thought the "Assassinate Ancar" campaign to be a solid rational decision although ethically a bit grey. (Never mind the practical argument that if you start assassinating opposing rulers, you open the way for them to try the same, but Ancar opened the way in the first place). Hmmm, that wasn't particularly clear. When the Karsite mage/priest offers to send demons at Ancar's army - if A's mages couldn't have sent them back, I'd have been rooting for them to send the demons. Pro: Your own people don't get hurt, the enemy are killed quickly (you're not torturing them, just sending a weapon at them) and reasonably cleanly and dead is dead. On the other hand, I guess I can see their point. I fully agree with something like the Geneva convention (prisoners of war shall be treated fairly etc), but I still think heralds tend to be just a little too sweetness and light in general, though common sense and intelligence temper those qualities a lot in our favourite characters (Alberich, Elsepth, Van & Savil spring to mind). Anyway, I suspect I'm revealing myself as sub-heraldic standard [so be it] and prosiac [never!] so I'll stop now. :) Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 286 *********************************