MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 290 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Questions about LHM by Gyrfalcon 2) Re: Questions about LHM by Gyrfalcon 3) Re: Savil by Ashke 4) Re: Need's Story by Ashke 5) Re: Savil by Ashke 6) Re: Kero and Daren's Whites by Ashke 7) Re: Queen's Own by Mat Timmerman 8) Re: Flunk by Mat Timmerman 9) Re: Questions about LHM by "Patrick S. Waterlander" 10) Kero's Whites by EGLESTON-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG 11) Recycled names (was Re: Tylendel) by Tammy Harris 12) Re: Trainees flunking by Tammy Harris 13) Re: Kero and Daren's Whites by Tammy Harris 14) Re: Need's Story by "Patrick S. Waterlander" 15) Re: Copy of: Re: Questions about LHM by "Patrick S. Waterlander" 16) Karal as Son? by AliFarr-+AT+-aol.com 17) Re: Tylendel by EGLESTON-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG 18) Re: Savil by EGLESTON-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG 19) Re: Savil by "Patrick S. Waterlander" 20) Re: Kero and Daren's Whites by EGLESTON-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG 21) Re: Flunk by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 22) Re: Recycled names (was Re: Tylendel) by Shana Fox 23) Re: Kero and Daren's Whites by "Sarah Stock" 24) newbie by Brad Chamberlain 25) Repudiations + Medrens by ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com 26) Re: Need's Story by be248-+AT+-scn.org (SCN User) 27) Re: Tylendel by be248-+AT+-scn.org (SCN User) 28) Re: Kero and Daren's Whites by be248-+AT+-scn.org (SCN User) 29) Re: Kero and Daren's Whites by Mary Temple ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 07:49:19 -0500 (EST) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Questions about LHM Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Patrick S. Waterlander wrote: > The bond that Dawnfire had with Trevalen was a lifebond. At one point in > the Winds series he realizes that he is lifebonded to her, and is > depressed because he cannot be with her, and also fears that the Star > Eyed will be angry with him. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa! Where does it ever say that they lifebonded? IIRC Trevalen was obsessed with Dawnfire, but not on the scale that Dirk was with Talia. Obsession, while a symptom of an unrecognized lifebond, is also perfectly natural in those who don't have one. Consider it, for the first time in memory your goddess creates an avatar that both the Shin'a'in and the Tal'ederas (sp?) would recognise, and you've been set the task of finding out why. Couple in the fact that the avatar has the forms of both your clan's totem and that of a lovely young woman. What hot blooded barbarian shaman wouldn't be interested, and as he was allowed to proceed, obsessed? --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 07:59:10 -0500 (EST) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Questions about LHM Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > What ever happened to all the kestra'cherns anyways? We don't > hear about them except in the past. IIRC they all went with the Kal'en'dal (sp?) through the Gate and helped build White Gryphon, Silverfox (Winds 3, Storms 2) is one of the current kestra'chern. --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 11:13:27 -0500 (EST) From: Ashke To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Savil Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > If Heralds Do come back as Companions, would Kero's Sayvil really be > VAnyel's Aunt, Herald-Mage Savil? If I recall right, that is what Kero's > Companion's name is, they seem to have similar personality traits..... > > (:*BECKY*:) I often wondered about that myself....also prince Daren's companion is jasen....could be that the two of them being such good friends in life decided to come back together.> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 11:17:33 -0500 (EST) From: Ashke To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Need's Story Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, Gyrfalcon wrote: > On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, Melanie Dymond Harper wrote: > > > I don't think we ever find out her (Need's) name (I may be wrong on this). > > You're wrong on this. In the second Winds book, Nyara has a "dream" > about when Need killed herself, I do believe it was a lesson in fairness > or something like that. We find out she was Sister > Begins-with-L-and-I-can't-remember-the-name. > No it was in winds of fate when elspeth and skiff are on the outskirts of kata shinain if you recall she wasnt to easy on skiff with the mind contact.> > Ashke S003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 11:20:32 -0500 (EST) From: Ashke To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Savil Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Jan 1996 Dalisair1-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > So I'm not crazy! I think you're right Beck. Also does anyone think that the > young Karse ambassador (Sorry no name) wil be the next Son of the Sun? > > Falling asleep, > Robert > If not then he will be very important to say the least...He has already proven himself more than i would say most of the "false" sons did with their fake miracles.....Looks like Mistys next series may be a Karasite history. Ashke s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 11:25:31 -0500 (EST) From: Ashke To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kero and Daren's Whites Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Stacy Hunt DuVall wrote: > I think that the reason they may have gotten their whites prematurely is > because of their previous status as leaders. Kero was the Captain of a very > successful merc company and Daren is, after all, a prince who is not from > Valdemar. Perhaps the whites were given early to avoid any possible bad > feelings on the part of Rethwellan's nobility...and it could be just > something Misty wrote and we're just supposed to accept . I think it is because they didnt need the "training" both were already skilled in fighting and diplomacy and probably languages as well....whats left to train them in??? ashke s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 11:59:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Queen's Own Message-ID: <01HZM11HHH4K91W2BZ-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Becky Anne Christensen > > Okay, no more questions (thunderous aplause:)) Thank you, that >does make a lot of sense. Don't be sorry, I deserved it. > > (:*BECKY*:) > > It wasn't the number of questions, it was the question itself. As long as we steer clear of the Minspeech thread, I'll be a happy camper :) Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ VAX is the source of all evil. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 11:56:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Flunk Message-ID: <01HZM0Z2V69Q91W2BZ-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) > >IIRC, there have only been a few repudiations (is that a word? doesn't >really sound like one) in the history of heralds. Tylendel is the only one >I'm sure of, and I believe Lavan Firestorm was repudiated. A Companion >breaking the bond with his/her Chosen is the result of the Chosen doing >something really evil, I think, so that's why there are so few Chosen being >repudiated. > I don't think that Lavan was repudiated. He went mad because hi Companion was killed. Hey Jaguar, why don't you ask Lavaan? ;) Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ VAX is the source of all evil. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:40:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Patrick S. Waterlander" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Questions about LHM Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Gyrfalcon wrote: > On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Patrick S. Waterlander wrote: > > > The bond that Dawnfire had with Trevalen was a lifebond. At one point in > > the Winds series he realizes that he is lifebonded to her, and is > > depressed because he cannot be with her, and also fears that the Star > > Eyed will be angry with him. > > Whoa. Whoa. Whoa! > Where does it ever say that they lifebonded? IIRC Trevalen was obsessed > with Dawnfire, but not on the scale that Dirk was with Talia. Obsession, > while a symptom of an unrecognized lifebond, is also perfectly natural in > those who don't have one. Consider it, for the first time in memory your > goddess creates an avatar that both the Shin'a'in and the Tal'ederas > (sp?) would recognise, and you've been set the task of finding out why. > Couple in the fact that the avatar has the forms of both your clan's > totem and that of a lovely young woman. What hot blooded barbarian > shaman wouldn't be interested, and as he was allowed to proceed, obsessed? > > --Gyrfalcon > I can't give you the exact quote right now, although I will within a few days, but at one point Trevalen realizes that it IS a lifebond, although he doesnt show the same level of obsession as Dirk does for Talia. I think that the main reason that Dirk has such an obsession is because he loves Talia, but he thinks that he isn't good enough for her, and he thinks about this constantly, which after a while becomes an obsession. -Mannaheim "People may not trust what you say, but they will always believe what you do." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:44:51 -0500 (EST) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Kero's Whites Message-ID: <960104134451.1e78-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG> IIRC, Kero was wearing Whites (and hated it) at the the end of BTS, but had gone happily into Alberich's style of leathers by the first Winds book. Personally, I think that she and Daren got shoved into Whites instead of Grays because of the war. Look at it this way: Selenay has got two new Chosen to deal with, but they are both people whom she _must_ give a great deal of authority almost immediately. Daren, because a marriage to him will solidify the alliance with Rethwellen (as well as be personally satisfying.) Kero, because she is the most experienced, skilled, and best trained warrior in the country. If Kerowyn is going to be telling the Council where to put their war plans, then she must either be the "Mercenary Captain" in strange foreign gear (although that makes her an employee -- not the best plan) _or_ she can be a Herald, with all which that implies. The Council doesn't take Trainees seriously. Look at how often they tried to foul up Talia's training. (Yes, I know that the real reason is because Misty felt like it, but as a long-time Sherlockian, I have always felt that the best way to play is to treat the fictional realm as if it were real, and then see what follows from there. At least Velgarth is more consistent than Doyle's works!) Cindy (who is thinking of changing her name to Hypatia. Unless there is already a Hypatia out there somewhere in cyberland?) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 13:50:06 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Recycled names (was Re: Tylendel) Message-ID: <28D98D41DFF-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> On Thurs, Jan 4, Becky wrote: > Speaking of which....what about Medren Van's nephew, and Medren > the cook when Talis is there....It's probably just recycling though. I may be wrong, but I believe that the cook during Talia's student days was Mero. Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 13:49:26 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Trainees flunking Message-ID: <28D96040686-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> On Thurs, Jan 4, Becky wrote: > Kero wears the same thing that Alberich wears, the brown? > leathers. Which does make sense, because she is extremely strong > willed > and wouldn't wear anything unless she wanted to, or by direct > oreder of > the Queen. Granted, Kero does not like Whites, and would only wear them on direct orders. However, at the end of By The Sword, she *is* wearing them, one of the few times we ever 'see' her doing so. Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 13:52:20 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kero and Daren's Whites Message-ID: <28DA2B15273-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> On Thurs, Jan 4, Lee wrote: > C-Everyone realized the training in arms and tactical Kero and > Daren received from Tarma was equal if not better to what they would > receive as a new Heralds. They were given Credit for Prior Learning > Experiences and were granted the privilege of wearing whites with the > condition that they complete the remainder of their required training. > Did someone say it would take them 6 months to finish the training? > Kero & Daren were recognized as mature, responsible, intelligent leaders > who already had more experience than many of the Heralds and they weren't > going to take a chance on insulting them, especially the Queen's Lifebonded! Everything you say about Kero and Daren is true; however, I still don't think it covers it. They had a lot of excellent training, but they had little or no background in the laws, traditions, and history of Valdemar. Since upholding the laws is a primary function of the Heralds, this is of prime importance. Secondly, neither of them would be insulted by wearing the student uniforms; if they were the type to be insulted by something so petty, they would never have been Chosen! I don't think the lifebond comes into it. > K-Valdemar wanted to show their appreciation and gratitude to > Kero and Daren for their part in Saving Selenay and Valdemar from Ancar. There are many ways Valdemar could have expressed appreciation for what Kero and Daren did. They didn't have to give them Whites. It really isn't fair (and please, don't tell me that life's not fair) to the other Herald-trainees, who have to work hard to *earn* their Whites. Whites are a symbol, not just to the Heralds themselves, but to the populace at large. The Whites are like their credentials, establishing that this person *is* a Herald, has completed the required training, and can be counted on, including to settle disputes, based on the laws. But Kero and Daren are *not* qualified (yet) to handle everything the Heralds do. I still think they should have been in Greys. (I don't mean to pick on you, or to nit-pick. Just discussing something that has bugged me for quite some time.) Wind to thy Wings, Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:57:31 -0800 (PST) From: "Patrick S. Waterlander" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Need's Story Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > > I have read quite a few of ML's books but I can't recall which > > book reveals to us the story of Need, the sword. And do we ever get all > > of her story or only part of it?. How old is she and what is her real > > name? I only remember vague bits and pieces. Maybe I'm still asleep > > too, please just don't drop me down a well! > > > > Lee > > > We find out a lot about the sword when it wakes up in Winds of > Change, if I remember right. It naver gave an exact age, but it was > before the was between Urtho and Maar. It just drops subtle hints, guess > we'll have to piece it together. I can't recall if there was anything > about it in other books, besides By the Sword. > > (:*BECKY*:) > I guess an introduction would be nice. I'm new here. I've been here since the start of Dec 95. And I like it here! But on to other things. Need reveals a very significant amount of information about herself in Winds of Fate?Change? I can't remember which but it happens when they are about to enter Kata'Shin'a'in. Once they are settled at an inn, Need "shows" Elspeth and Skif her origins. She also mentions her name, but I can't remember what it is right now. I think it started with a V. But when Skif asks what they should call her, she says that she's had the name Need longer than her original name, so they should just keep calling her by that. -Mannaheim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 11:10:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Patrick S. Waterlander" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Copy of: Re: Questions about LHM Message-ID: > Eric writes about lifebonding: > >> Misty provides us with two very different examples with her main characters > in Van's series and Talia's. I got the impression that Vanyel and Tylendel just > sort of fell in together and their bond strengthened over time to a point where > Tylendel could use Van's mage potential to make that gate... However with Talia > and Dirk we seem to have something different. They meet when she is coming in > from being chosen, briefly. Then not for awhile and she seems to forget him > completely. Then it becomes a matter of them bumping into each other. > Eventually the two get closer along with Kris who sort of muddies the > water for everyone for awhile; through no fault of his own. But for a > long time Dirk seems to deny it and so does Talia. So they both suffer > and are miserable. It takes a crisis and Talia's almost death to bring > them together. Comparing the two you would almost think it was two > different things happening there. So do life bondings just happen and > the two can't really control it? It would seem to be that way from these > examples. If thats the case it seems like they could be a curse as well > as a blessing for the couple.<< (Adding my two bits worth once again) Regarding the notion that lifebonds "just happen and the two can't really control it." I think Misty hints at this when the envoys of White Gryphon are in the capital city of King Shalaman (can't remember the name of the city. was it mentioned?) and the Truthsayer finds out that Winterhart and Amberdrake are lifebonded. He then tells them that lifebonding is a god-blessed bonding. It might mean nothing since these are totally different gods than that (is there more than one?) of Valdemar, but it seems to me that the gods (or maybe "fate") decrees who will lifebond, or maybe it just happens when you have someone who is "unstable" (like heralds) and needs another person to support them. -Mannaheim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 16:05:28 -0500 From: AliFarr-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Karal as Son? Message-ID: <960104160527_83808170-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> Sorry, lost who wrote....... > So I'm not crazy! I think you're right Beck. Also does anyone think that the > young Karse ambassador (Sorry no name) wil be the next Son of the Sun? Book at home, me at work; but doesn't it say somewhere in Storm Warning that the Black or Red Robes who are the most powerful priests - power defined as strong in magic - are those from whom the Son of the Sun is chosen? Karal seems like the type to occupy a "Oueen/King's Own" type of position to the SotS, as his skill lies in personal /internal reconciliations. We've already seen that he's not great at the ambassador's position. To a large extent, he has brought his helplessness in that position upon himself, because HE decided that he was not experienced enough or strong enough. When he first realized that no one was listening to him, a consultation with Darkwind, Elspeth and Talia to strongly support him on every point he brought up would have helped his political position in council immensely. But he never thinks of this at all, because he sees himself as unable to fill Ulrich's shoes. Unless he grows out of this attitude as he grows up, he will never be able to handle the politics inherent in the position of SotS, IMHO. Stacy Hunt Duvall wrote: >On the subject of the "giving of whites": >I think that the reason they may have gotten their whites prematurely is >because of their previous status as leaders. Kero was the Captain of a very >successful merc company and Daren is, after all, a prince who is not from >Valdemar. Perhaps the whites were given early to avoid any possible bad >feelings on the part of Rethwellan's nobility...and it could be just >something Misty wrote and we're just supposed to accept . Again, not having the book handy, there is a point where Vanyel mentions that in times of trouble, Heralds get Chosen, minimaly trained, then thrown into whites and sent to the battle front. This is in essence the situation that Kerowyn is in. She needs to know the history she missed by not living in Valdemar, but after that, she has the training to be used where she is needed - commanding troops on the battlefield. This is one herald who will never ride circuit! Also IMHO, Karal is staying in Valdemar for sometrhing other than the Ambassadorship. Maybe he will be part of the first embassay to Iftel - where he would be qualified as Ambassador??? AliFarr Who hasn't got time to think up a sig! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 16:32:49 -0500 (EST) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendel Message-ID: <960104163249.2ba4-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG> Kerry wrote something to the effect of "I can't imagine a group of Companions running to ring the Death Bell, like a Monty Python skit" etc (No, still haven't figured out how to extract things, sigh, but lucky for ya'll I have figured out how to cancel my egregious attempts to do so.) Anyway, I had a lot of fun reading the messsage from Kerry, and it made sense too. I thought that the Death Bell was controlled by whatever power(s) had given Valdemar his bargain and the Companions. It rang for his death, the first time, and it doesn't seem to be tied into the web. I'm at work, so I don't have access to the books. Does anyone remember if the Heralds of Vanyels time could sense each other's deaths before he established the web? Cindy (or Hypatia, demon defender of the library!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:09:59 -0500 (EST) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Savil Message-ID: <960104170959.2ba4-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG> I think it is pretty inarguable that Savil and Sayvil are the same person, but my question is, how many times has she "been around"? It's been a long time since Vanyel's day, and she might have been a Companion more than once by now! Cindy (maybe Hypatia -- if I can figure out how to pronounce it) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 14:14:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Patrick S. Waterlander" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Savil Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Ashke wrote: > On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > > > If Heralds Do come back as Companions, would Kero's Sayvil really be > > VAnyel's Aunt, Herald-Mage Savil? If I recall right, that is what Kero's > > Companion's name is, they seem to have similar personality traits..... > > > > (:*BECKY*:) > I often wondered about that myself....also prince Daren's companion is > jasen....could be that the two of them being such good friends in life > decided to come back together.> > Jasen = Jaysen? Just wondering here, since I dont have a readily available copy of my books. Sorry. -Mannaheim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:55:09 -0500 (EST) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kero and Daren's Whites Message-ID: <960104175509.25e0-+AT+-GROVER.BPL.ORG> Tammy said: "Whites are a symbol, not just to the Heralds themselves, but to the populace at large. The Whites are like their credentials, establishing that this person *is* a Herald ... and can be counted on ... (my ellipses)" While I think you've got a valid point about Kero and Daren being unable to settle legal disputes based on laws they haven't learned yet, I think that you have still hit on the key point. Whites are a symbol to the populace at large. Someone in Whites can be trusted to do the "right" thing -- in as much as anyone can be trusted for that. By putting Kero and Daren in Whites, Selenay and the Circle are declaring that they can be trusted to do the best possible thing for Valdemar. And, you notice, given the Whites or not, they are still going to have to get trained in Valdemaran laws, customs, etc. But in the meantime they can do the best possible job, with the greatest possible support, by being in Whites. Cindy (who is getting off work any minute, whee!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 10:01:32 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Flunk Message-ID: <9601042301.AA03874-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Mat wrote: > From: duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) > > > >IIRC, there have only been a few repudiations (is that a word? doesn't > >really sound like one) in the history of heralds. Tylendel is the only one > >I'm sure of, and I believe Lavan Firestorm was repudiated. A Companion > >breaking the bond with his/her Chosen is the result of the Chosen doing > >something really evil, I think, so that's why there are so few Chosen being > >repudiated. > > > > I don't think that Lavan was repudiated. He went mad because hi Companion > was killed. Hey Jaguar, why don't you ask Lavaan? ;) Personally I don't think he exactly went mad either. If you read between the lines of what Vanyel says and the other reference to Lavan (a song?) it seems very very much as if Lavan final-strikes using his Fire-starting gift. I remember a line like "He just had presence of mind to warn them to leave the ridge before calling down the fires that would kill him." His companion may have been killed [before him] but I can't remember any text reference to support it.. (I agree though that he wasn't repudiated). Of course that could just result from one of the worst days I've had in ages (and it's only 10am). Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:18:42 -0600 From: Shana Fox To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Recycled names (was Re: Tylendel) Message-ID: <199601042318.RAA12528-+AT+-marlin.gulf.net> At 10:39 PM 1/4/96 GMT, you wrote: >On Thurs, Jan 4, Becky wrote: > > >> Speaking of which....what about Medren Van's nephew, and Medren >> the cook when Talis is there....It's probably just recycling >though. > >I may be wrong, but I believe that the cook during Talia's student >days was Mero. > >Tammy I missed most of this thread but if it's about some of the different characters having the same name. OF COURSE. That's how I found out about the campanions being resurected Heralds. I knew it long before it was reviealed. They have the same name because they are the same "person" --Shana Fox "DR.: I'm a foundationalist Ivonava: a what? Dr.: a foundationalist, we believe that god is an infinite number of dots and the closer you get, the harder it is to understand God." --Babylon 5 =E2:EA=X-Phile=VRStormer=Trekker=Timetrax!=Tomorrowpeople!=StrangeLuck= Shana Fox foxie-+AT+-gulf.net "If we had all the answers we wouldn't be scientists we'd be Gods" --Seaquest =Bibliphile=Seaquest!=ForeverKnight!=Tekker=ER=Mercedes Lackey's Valdermer series= Forever Knight has been cancelled!!!:-(((( check here for more info http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:24:04 +1200 From: "Sarah Stock" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kero and Daren's Whites Message-ID: <199601050014.NAA27816-+AT+-ftp.paradigm.co.nz> Lee writes: > C-Everyone realized the training in arms and tactical Kero and > Daren received from Tarma was equal if not better to what they would > receive as a new Heralds. They were given Credit for Prior Learning > Experiences and were granted the privilege of wearing whites with the > condition that they complete the remainder of their required training. > Did someone say it would take them 6 months to finish the training? > Kero & Daren were recognized as mature, responsible, intelligent leaders > who already had more experience than many of the Heralds and they weren't > going to take a chance on insulting them, especially the Queen's Lifebonded! > K-Valdemar wanted to show their appreciation and gratitude to > Kero and Daren for their part in Saving Selenay and Valdemar from Ancar. > E- C and K > Y- A, C, and K > Well, considering what we know of Talia's training, it's more than likely that both Kero and Daren were only attending classes for about one hour a day. Most of the classes I remember Talia taking, they wouldn't need. And the rest of the time, they would have been functioning as full Heralds, mainly because they had to. So, if they are spending 90% of their time as full Heralds, and only 10% as students, I'd would have given them whites as well. On another topic, has anyone else noticed the vast difference in Herald training between Vanyels and Talia's day. I know that there is some time in between them, but it seems so incredibly structured now. It always strikes me as quite strange, and maybe an offshoot of losing Herald-mages i.e. everyone now needed almost exactly the same training. Still, I do not remember Vanyel taking any classes in law or any of the other classes Talia had to take! Sarah (Frantically avoiding work, cause the weather is just too nice to work in!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 18:48:08 -0600 From: Brad Chamberlain To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Cc: bchambln-+AT+-mail-hub1.weeg.uiowa.edu Subject: newbie Message-ID: <199601050048.SAA83057-+AT+-red.weeg.uiowa.edu> hello, I just wanted to introduce myself, as I'm a newbie in this place. I do have a question about the Black Gryphon series...I have read black gryphon and white gryphon, but is there another book after that??? I asked my library and they said silver gryphon wasn't it. confused. brad ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:25:28 -0800 From: ARisemberg-+AT+-eworld.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Repudiations + Medrens Message-ID: <960104172527_21698591-+AT+-hp1.online.apple.com> Hi all! Stacy said: >IIRC, there have only been a few repudiations (is that a >word? doesn't >really sound like one) in the history of heralds. >Tylendel is the only one >I'm sure of, and I believe Lavan Firestorm was repudiated. I don't think that's right. IIRC, there is mention somewhere that there was only one repudiation *in the last 200 years*. Before that, I don't think we know for sure one way or the other. Lavan did not get repudiated, he called his own fires down on himself -- in order to prevent the awful reaction headache that was coming, Dirk (I think) said in jest. This is a bit after the fact, but... HAPPY NEW YEAR to all! :-) :::blowing my horns belatedly::: As always, comments welcome. :) -- Alice -- BTW, there is a servant named Medren somewhere -- I think in the Arrows books. I noticed it the last time around. :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:51:43 -0800 From: be248-+AT+-scn.org (SCN User) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Need's Story Message-ID: <199601050151.RAA12223-+AT+-scn.org> > >On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > >She also mentions her name, but I can't remember what it is right now. I >think it started with a V. But when Skif asks what they should call her, >she says that she's had the name Need longer than her original name, so >they should just keep calling her by that. Need's name, Sister Lashan, is in Winds of Change, page 115. Just my thoughts... Zhai'helleva, Herald Briana -- Herald Briana Kestyl wc814-+AT+-freenet.victoria be248-+AT+-scn.org HeraldBria-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:59:57 -0800 From: be248-+AT+-scn.org (SCN User) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendel Message-ID: <199601050159.RAA14885-+AT+-scn.org> >Does anyone remember if >the Heralds of Vanyels time could sense each other's deaths before he >established the web? No, they couldn't. Vanyel was the first to sense the deaths of other Heralds, starting with Kilchas, Lissandra, and Savil. He even says "An unexpected side effect of the newe Web. Unless someone was magically cut out of the Web, every Herald would know when another Herald died, as the Companions already knew." So, the Companions knew when any Herald or Companion died, but the Heralds knew only after the institution of the Web. Just my thoughts... Zhai'helleva, Herald Briana -- Herald Briana Kestyl wc814-+AT+-freenet.victoria be248-+AT+-scn.org HeraldBria-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:37:07 -0800 From: be248-+AT+-scn.org (SCN User) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kero and Daren's Whites Message-ID: <199601050137.RAA07433-+AT+-scn.org> > >On Thurs, Jan 4, Lee wrote: > >Everything you say about Kero and Daren is true; however, I still >don't think it covers it. They had a lot of excellent training, but >they had little or no background in the laws, traditions, and history >of Valdemar. Since upholding the laws is a primary function of the >Heralds, this is of prime importance. Secondly, neither of them >would be insulted by wearing the student uniforms; if they were >the type to be insulted by something so petty, they would never >have been Chosen! I don't think the lifebond comes into it. But also, as neither Kero or Daren were going out on Circuit, both being too important and essential both to the war, the Queen, the administration, and the training of new Heralds, they didn't have to know much about the laws, traditions, and history for immeadite action. Then they could be taught these things when the war ended or lulled for a bit. Just my thoughts... Zhai'helleva, Herald Briana -- Herald Briana Kestyl wc814-+AT+-freenet.victoria be248-+AT+-scn.org HeraldBria-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:17:37 -0600 (CST) From: Mary Temple To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kero and Daren's Whites Message-ID: <199601050217.UAA03046-+AT+-natashya.eden.com> At 10:14 PM 01/04/96 GMT, you wrote: >> I think that the reason they may have gotten their whites prematurely is >> because of their previous status as leaders. Kero was the Captain of a very >> successful merc company and Daren is, after all, a prince who is not from >> Valdemar. Perhaps the whites were given early to avoid any possible bad >> feelings on the part of Rethwellan's nobility...and it could be just >> something Misty wrote and we're just supposed to accept . > >I think it is because they didnt need the "training" both were already >skilled in fighting and diplomacy and probably languages as well....whats >left to train them in??? Uhm, Valdemaran history, Heraldic policy, Valdemaran procedure, perhaps political structure...etc... NoxCat > >ashke >s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu >> > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Mary Temple I am the cat who walks by Himself, NoxCat and all places are alike to me. Catriona Rowley - Rudyard Kipling ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 290 *********************************