MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 301 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: re- myriad subjects by Becky Anne Christensen 2) Re: in praise of LHM by Becky Anne Christensen 3) re: multiple personalities by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 4) new Gryphon/ Storm rising by "James T. Yardley" <73201.745-+AT+-compuserve.com> 5) Re: Elvensteeds, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., by "David J. De Riemacker" <103275.3267-+AT+-compuserve.com> 6) Re: YKYBRTMMLW: by Rosario Holsen-Baker 7) Re: Don't be afraid, they shouldn't hurt us too badly by JR9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu 8) Re: Whites by "Kellie" 9) Re: re- myriad subjects by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 10) Re: re- myriad subjects by "Kellie" 11) Re: re- myriad subjects by "Katherine M. Brielmaier" 12) Re: YKYBRTMMLW: by "Kellie" 13) Re: re- ROCKY by "Kellie" 14) Vanyel as ideal person (was )Re: order of writing by duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) 15) Re: threadshifting to aussies ;) by Craig George 16) Re: Elvensteeds, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., by Rosario Holsen-Baker 17) RE: Makaar by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 18) Re: new Gryphon/ Storm rising by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 19) Re: Tylendel by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 20) Re: Elvensteeds, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 21) RE: Makaar by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 17:33:25 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re- myriad subjects Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, STOKES J wrote: > Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 03:22:18 GMT > Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk > From: Becky Anne Christensen > To: 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk > Subject: Re: re- myriad subjects > > > > On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Ashke wrote: > > > > > > > On Sun, 7 Jan 1996, Jerald (Jerry) Anbinder wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > And on antoher note, reincarnation theory generally tends to agree that we > > > reincarnate with the same group of people who we have 'unfinished business' > > > with...since we have no idea if Vanyel is a 'first lifer' I suppose it's > > > possible that we are talking about the prince of darkness and the prince of > > > light reincarnating over and over again to fight the ultimate battle... > > > > > > Okay, so it's a little far fetched, but hey, it's a thought... > > > > > > Aerin > > > Yours Truly > > > > > > Jerry Anbinder > > > > > > > > Want one even more far fetched????? What if van was originally Urtho???? > > Or maybe Firesong was ...would be ironic if it took him that long to > > finally beat Maar. > > > > Just something to stir up the stewpot > > > > Ashke > > > > > > > But we know where Van is, he's in sorrows. His spirit couldn't be in > Firesong because his spirit talked to Firesong. The reason Ma'ar could > come back was because he put a spell or something on all his abcestors, > that way when any of his ancestors used the fire lighting spell(I think) > he could "steal" their bodies. That was what happened with An'desha > wasn't it? I don't recall Urtho having any children, and it doesn't say > that he put that spell on his ancestors. I'm certain that he didn't know > about it, because then he would have found a way to beat Ma'ar for all > time. > > (:*BECKY*:) > > > > Becky > Don't you mean decendants and not ancestors I think that would > make better sense > > Jason > > I see you shiver in antici.........pation > AHA! That's the word I was looking for, I could not remember what it was. It was one of THOSE days:) Yes, that is what I mean. (:*BECKY*:) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 17:36:53 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: in praise of LHM Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Patrick S. Waterlander wrote: > On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, James T. Yardley wrote: > > > someone was saying that LHM is the series that really draws them in... i agree. > > i love all the characters in that series so much - i just want to find Van and > > give him a big hug :> (well - we won't get into what else... ;>) and i still > > cry at certain parts: where Tylendel and Van first get together and have sex, > > where Lendel dies, the part in MPromise where Van's making an image of Lendel, > > and of course when Van and Stefen finally get together. and other parts which i > > can't think of right now. i literally have parts of MPawn memorized. anyway, i > > just wanted to tell you all how much i love this series. partly it could be > > because i'm such a hopeless romantic, as evidenced by the aforementioned > > omnipresent tears... > > and one more thing. excuse me for whining in your ears, but did *any*body read > > the request i made for people to change the titles of threads when the subject > > of the thread changes? i can't keep track of where all the threads are going. > > > > - Meg "waiting until the proper time has elapsed for her to read LHM again" > > Yardley > > > > > First of all, yes, I saw that post you made asking that we keep to the > relevant topic of that thread, and I have found out how to start new > threads so I won't be posting irrelevant stuff anymore. Second > point: When you said "Tylendel and Van first get together and have sex" > it just sounds, well, crude to me. I don't think either of them are > deserving of this description. In my opinion, what they had between them > was much more than just sex. But, that is my thoughts. Oops, erased the sig, but anyways, they didn't just have sex, they made love, it was so much more than just the physical, they talked hours before and after, I think of it as what making love should be. (:*BECKY*:) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 13:02:34 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: multiple personalities Message-ID: <9601100202.AA07928-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Cindy wrote: > Ashke, on 8 Jan 96, asked "What if Van(yel) was originally Urtho?" > > I like it. It explains one thing which has bothered me for a while, > which is why he and Leareth seem to be tied on a sub-verbal communication > level from so early in Vanyel's life. IMNSHO, nope.. It -cheapens- both Urtho and Vanyel's sacrifice (Actually Urtho didn't strike me as the self-sacrificing type, but that's another discussion altogether) - reduces their efforts to just "Ho hum, Urtho wins again.." Far far too trite for me. Side Note: One of the things that makes LHM an epic as opposed to just "Oooh, isn't this a nice adventure story." is that feeling that the characters are striving and struggling and living on their own merits in a story much larger than they are. And if it's a tragedy (and I *don't* feel LHM is..), then at least it embodies high fantasy. Rather badly phrased but what I mean is that for me at least, knowing that it was just one repetition after another of the same old battle removes that epic quality leaving it fun, but not high fantasy. (Ah! I've got the description - David Eddings - liked his books but..) Another tangent: I know I've asked this before, but did Ma'ar *ever* win & live til that incarnation died of old age? The Eastern Empire struck me as possibly being originated by Maar somehow. If he didn't ever win, which seems a bit unlikely, it might have contributed to his ever-increasing level of madness.. Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: 09 Jan 96 21:52:31 EST From: "James T. Yardley" <73201.745-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing Subject: new Gryphon/ Storm rising Message-ID: <960110025230_73201.745_JHE179-1-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> does anyone know when the new Gryphon book and/or Storm Rising are coming out in paperback? - Meg ------------------------------ Date: 09 Jan 96 21:59:00 EST From: "David J. De Riemacker" <103275.3267-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: "listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Re: Elvensteeds, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., Message-ID: <960110025900_103275.3267_IHH27-1-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Heyla Mannaheim, Elvensteeds are from the Serrated Edge series. In .......Found it! Wheels of Fire, Alinor had an Elvensteed, and he had it disguise itself as a Mazda Miata. I'm not entirely sure what Elvensteeds are, only that they are magical, sapient, fast, and can change shape to match that of any vehicle. They come up in all of the SE books, as a matter of fact. They pose as motorcycles in Summoned to Tourney, and as a yellow '57 Chevy in....Damn! I can't remember the name of that one. I'm afraid that's all I can tell you. Try reading the Serrated edge and Di Tregarde books, they are quite cool, and each respective series intertwines with the rest. !!! IDEA !!!! Do all of Misty's books somehow connect? Valdemar to Underhill to Lionaerie? Could Valdemar be ancient Earth, perhaps. There was mention of gryphons in The Chrome Circle, and they had to come from somewhere. And the Bardic Voices novels could be set in a future Earth, long after we've found some way to annahilate(sp?) ourselves. Or not. What do you think? TTFN, Whiteraven I asked:"Why is a mouse when it spins?" My three year old nephew answered(without hesitation):"A milk bottle!" Guess I know whose side of the family he takes after. P.S. In response to "Multiple personalities"; Mornelithe Falconsbane flashes back across some of his previous personas thruoghout history in the Winds books. I think it's WoF, when Ancar has him trapped and under coercion, but I could be wrong(more like probably). Also, did someone here mention Skan coming back in Storms? For some reason, I thought that might happen, too. But I thought that would be a bit corny, having the Great Black Gryphon come back to Close the Circle of the Novels of Valdemar, of Some Junk. Maybe it's not so far fetched, after all. Urtho keeps coming up here, and reminding me of a HUGE problem I had with him. If he had that magic box all that time, why did he not simply activate the box, open the Gate to Ma'ar's throne room, chuck it in, and kiss his evil a** goodbye? A man supposedly as smart as Urtho would have thought of that a long time ago. Even imploding the terminus of that Gate would have destroyed Ma'ar, just as was done with the Gate at Jerlag. So the question is, why did Urtho not act against Ma'ar? StarWolf: I must agree with you. Some Misty PC games would rock. While we're at it, why not some cool screensavers? Some serious stuff, like, from the books. Maybe some of Larry's pictures, too. Then, some real zany stuff, like in Bill 'n' Opus, or something like that. But first, let's have those games. And, no, Ma'ar was not "protecting his turf, but waging a war of acquisition on Urtho's lands. Ma'ar took over and imprisoned or killed all he considered foreign. This included Amberdrake himself, if you will recall. If he had not fled that school, he probably would have been purged with the other out'landers. There is no indication that Urtho ever moved against Ma'ar. He was drawn into conflict when Ma'ar attacked him. Seanna asked for a definition of evil. This is the best I've heard yet. Evil: Using others for one's own ends, without their consent or any expectation on their part of reasonable compensation. As you can see, this definition takes in all forms of evil; stealing, murder, rape, slavery, Social Security, Student Loans, lying, extortion, et. al. However, I don't think it would cover all evils. What if you give a dollar to a bum, and he goes out and buys a bottle of booze, gets drunk, and steps in front of a bus, and gets killed. You have definitely done evil, but you have not used the bum, only enabled him to destroy himself. Whoa! Talk about off-topic! Sorry about this, but I think I'll leave it as is, and let y'all figure it out. WTTW, again, Whiteraven Last thought(Promise!). When you gave the money to the bum, it was evis because you did so without expectation of reward, and thus did evil to yourself( I think this is called 'selflessness', but am unsure). The bum did evil to himself, too, by putting himself in a state where he was not aware of his surroundings. OK, I lied. When Mero is telling Talia about hunting griffins in the Pelagirs, are these the same as true gryphons? There was also a tavern in town called the Griffin's Egg, suggesting they lay eggs. So 'sup with that? Was Mero really going out in the woods and murdering people, or were they non-sapient? Bye, I really really mean it this time. No, I'm telling the truth, there's no more after this, there's no need to scroll any further. It's time I shut up, and when it's time to shut up, I really shut up. You won't see me yakkin' and carrying on like some people I could tell you about, I mean, when you tell me to shut up, I shut right up, Yessirree! No rambling on for me. And now for something completely different... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 22:09:22 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: YKYBRTMMLW: Message-ID: Shadow-Lover wrote: > > > > > *Shadow-Lover looks around and wonders how everyone knows him so well... He > begins to worry as he looks around his room seeing his shrine to Valdemar > bedecked in it's blue and silver regalia, with the Valdemarian Crest hanging > above and the stacks upon stacks of Misty books, tapes, and memorabilia...* > "Umm.. I think I need to find a new author... Any suggestions?" ;) > > - Shadow-Lover > > *Shadow-Lover grounds and centers, preparing a levin bolt for the first > person who responds "Piers Anthony"* > *Jaguar grounds and centers, and puts up her best "sticky-mirror" shields.* PIERS ANTHONY!!!!! PIERS ANTHONY!!!!! PIERS ANTHONY!!!!! Tee hee. :) |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | I would there were no age between sixteen and three-and-twenty | | or that youth would sleep out the rest, | | for there is nothing in the between but | | getting wenches with child, wronging the ancientry, stealing, fighting | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 21:35:56 CST From: JR9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Don't be afraid, they shouldn't hurt us too badly Message-ID: <4A58374415A-+AT+-cub.uca.edu> > Date sent: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 03:18:30 GMT > Send reply to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk > From: Becky Anne Christensen > To: jr9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu > Subject: Re: Don't be afraid, they shouldn't hurt us too badly > On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Kellie wrote: > > > > > > > Okay, I'm going to do something REALLY daring. Can someone > > > suggest the best out of all these Xanth novels? > > tomatos to be thrown in my general direction> I'm getting curious about > > > them. So, if someone can tell me the best one, I'll get it and then be > > > able to figure out what is so bad. He can't really be THAT bad, can he? I > > > seriously doubt that he could be better than Misty though. I seriously > > > doubt anyone can be better than Misty:) > > > > (:*BECKY*:) > The best Piers was Incarnations of Immortality. No question! Yossarian > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 22:21:49 CST From: "Kellie" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Whites Message-ID: <25DF3602A98-+AT+-athena.valpo.edu> > > It IS more difficult than it sounds. You must prove yourself, sort of, you > must meet a bunch of requirements, earning x number of points, and then you > can become a Herald. I'm still working on it, but I'm not making much > progress :( Just not spending any time on it. I'm trying to finish a short > story about my character, which would give me enough points to become a > Tayledras. Then I want to work on my Herald persona. > > Speaking of which, has anyone here got persona's of different sexes? Or is > everyone who has one in the "official" fanclub always stuck to their own > sex? > > Just curious. I tend to stick to being female in whatever persona's I may > create, and I was wondering if others are less... conservative? > > This is NOT a formal poll. I'd just as soon not get dozens of messages > but if anyone wants to respond to the list, I'm sure others would be interested, > and this is VERY Misty related. > > Wind to Thy Wings > StarWolf > i am sorry to say but i am confused, i am a bit of a newbie so if you could clarify what youare talk ing a bout that would be greeeat TNX Kellie Kellie Myers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 15:24:04 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re- myriad subjects Message-ID: <9601100424.AA09273-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Seanna wrote: > Jerry Anbinder wrote: > > > >I've had the same idea, but I really hope not. It would be very cheesy > > >if almost every one of Misty's major villains was the same person. > > >I mean, what are the odds of each one being Ma'ar? > > > > True enough, but what are the chances of there being that many truly great > > evils in the world, as well? > > How do we define evil? I'm not sure if Ma'ar in all his incarnations > qualifies as a "great evil". The number of (what I'd consider) evil > people in this world is depressingly large. > > (On a side note, what do you think of the commonly used trick of > making your villains seem really evil by making them sadistic? For > example Mornelithe, Pavel Young (in the Honor Harrigton books) etc. > It seems like the easy way out; cheap blackening ink as it were...) Makes them more grey, rather than black in my opinion. As someone said in Winds (W... the scout, Darkwind's brother) - you don't torture or glory in a fight against a mad dog, you just kill it as quickly and painlessly as possible. It's not evil, just plain mad. For me, the most villainous parts were where Ma'ar & Co (Hey, I like that, hereby nominated as meaning Ma'ar in all his incarnations) were most sane. Someone else commented in response to this that Ma'ar didn't seem mad at all - he was just caring for his people etc etc.. Actually, if you read between the lines, Ma'ar had no affection for people, rather he had *possessions*.. That sort of thinking to me, is far more frightening than an obvious tawdry sadism and that was what was most disturbing about Firesong's behaviour in SR. Ya gotta watch that first step - it's a lulu.. (Hmmm, I split infinitives everywhere have. Never mind.. If do it can Yoda, then do it can I..) :) Cheers, Kerry. PS: Actually before the literate people correct me, I know Yoda doesn't split infinitives so much as structure his sentences according to the germanic languages, whereas I was literally splitting infinitives - but there's no point letting a joke go by for want of a few facts. Apologies to those who neither know nor care what I'm talking about. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 22:24:56 CST From: "Kellie" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re- myriad subjects Message-ID: <25E00BF26D5-+AT+-athena.valpo.edu> > > Jerry Anbinder wrote: > > > >I've had the same idea, but I really hope not. It would be very cheesy > > >if almost every one of Misty's major villains was the same person. > > >I mean, what are the odds of each one being Ma'ar? > > > > True enough, but what are the chances of there being that many truly great > > evils in the world, as well? > > How do we define evil? I'm not sure if Ma'ar in all his incarnations > qualifies as a "great evil". The number of (what I'd consider) evil > people in this world is depressingly large. > > (On a side note, what do you think of the commonly used trick of > making your villains seem really evil by making them sadistic? For > example Mornelithe, Pavel Young (in the Honor Harrigton books) etc. > It seems like the easy way out; cheap blackening ink as it were...) > > > since we have no idea if Vanyel is a 'first lifer' I suppose it's > > possible that we are talking about the prince of darkness and the prince of > > light reincarnating over and over again to fight the ultimate battle... > > I don't really like this idea... It's not necessarily far-fetched, > but somehow it seems like underestimating (undermining?) Vanyel to > say he's just some kind of recycled stereotype... > > > -Seanna > sorry to take this on a side note again, but has anyone read Gaate of Darkness circle of light? good book, but i don't remem ber wh0o wrote it Kellie > > > > Kellie Myers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 23:39:10 CST From: "Katherine M. Brielmaier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re- myriad subjects Message-ID: <94184.brie0030-+AT+-gold.tc.umn.edu> On Wed, 10 Jan 1996 04:07:46 GMT, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > > >On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, STOKES J wrote: > >> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 03:22:18 GMT >> Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk >> From: Becky Anne Christensen >> To: 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk >> Subject: Re: re- myriad subjects >> >> >> >> On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Ashke wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > On Sun, 7 Jan 1996, Jerald (Jerry) Anbinder wrote: >> > >> > > > >> > > >> > > And on antoher note, reincarnation theory generally tends to agree that we >> > > reincarnate with the same group of people who we have 'unfinished business' >> > > with...since we have no idea if Vanyel is a 'first lifer' I suppose it's >> > > possible that we are talking about the prince of darkness and the prince of >> > > light reincarnating over and over again to fight the ultimate battle... >> > > >> > > Okay, so it's a little far fetched, but hey, it's a thought... >> > > >> > > Aerin >> > > Yours Truly >> > > >> > > Jerry Anbinder >> > > >> > > >> > Want one even more far fetched????? What if van was originally Urtho???? >> > Or maybe Firesong was ...would be ironic if it took him that long to >> > finally beat Maar. >> > >> > Just something to stir up the stewpot >> > >> > Ashke >> > >> > >> > >> But we know where Van is, he's in sorrows. His spirit couldn't be in >> Firesong because his spirit talked to Firesong. The reason Ma'ar could >> come back was because he put a spell or something on all his abcestors, >> that way when any of his ancestors used the fire lighting spell(I think) >> he could "steal" their bodies. That was what happened with An'desha >> wasn't it? I don't recall Urtho having any children, and it doesn't say >> that he put that spell on his ancestors. I'm certain that he didn't know >> about it, because then he would have found a way to beat Ma'ar for all >> time. >> >> (:*BECKY*:) >> >> >> >> Becky >> Don't you mean decendants and not ancestors I think that would >> make better sense >> >> Jason >> >> I see you shiver in antici.........pation >> > AHA! That's the word I was looking for, I could not remember what >it was. It was one of THOSE days:) Yes, that is what I mean. > > (:*BECKY*:) > > > > *peeks out.....clears throat.....steps up on soap-box* I just saw something to this effect a day or so ago, but...these posts are getting ridiculously long! It seems like just a couple of people are the main culprits, but it gets annoying fast. If it's at all possible, please delete any non-pertinent information, and try to avoid quoting long tracts of other comments, only to add a quick one-liner at the end. Please! If your system won't let you, then all is forgiven, but then you might want to consider just doing a quick recap at the beginning instead of quoting yards and yards of comments that no longer apply to *your* comments. Thank you! *steps down, wipes sweat off palms, hopes no one is offended, and dives for cover* 's e do bheatha Kaatje ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 22:32:05 CST From: "Kellie" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: YKYBRTMMLW: Message-ID: <25E1FB1511B-+AT+-athena.valpo.edu> > *Shadow-Lover looks around and wonders how everyone knows him so well... He > begins to worry as he looks around his room seeing his shrine to Valdemar > bedecked in it's blue and silver regalia, with the Valdemarian Crest hanging > above and the stacks upon stacks of Misty books, tapes, and memorabilia...* > "Umm.. I think I need to find a new author... Any suggestions?" ;) > > - Shadow-Lover > > *Shadow-Lover grounds and centers, preparing a levin bolt for the first > person who responds "Piers Anthony"* > Kellie responds... well it depends what you want to read... Susan B Cooper is really good, the Dark is Rising sequence, but you need to read Over Sea under Stone first, it is like Arthurian kind of, or you could try Barbara Hambly... The Walls of Air and the rest of the Darwath Trilogy, it has Gil Shalos from Magic Moondust and Melancholy Kellie Kellie Myers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 22:42:28 CST From: "Kellie" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re- ROCKY Message-ID: <25E4C02766F-+AT+-athena.valpo.edu> > > Jason wrote > > > > I see you shiver in antici.........pation > > becky answered > AHA! That's the word I was looking for, I could not remember what > it was. It was one of THOSE days:) Yes, that is what I mean. > > (:*BECKY*:) Kellie screamed "hurryayyyy " sorry i love to find rocky horror fans anywhere, hey Jason are you a virgin to the show, if not where did you see it and was it great, i still haven't seen it at the theater... well later all hee hee Kellie OH ROCKY , Janet , Doctor SCOTT Brad....... Kellie Myers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 00:23:02 -0500 From: duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Vanyel as ideal person (was )Re: order of writing Message-ID: <199601100523.AAA17777-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> On Jan 8, 1196, Mannaheim wrote: > > >To take this further, I think that the reason that a lot of people get >drawn in by LHM (just as I did) is that a lot of us can relate to Vanyel >in one way or another, some of us more than others. Misty makes him seem >like a real person, and someone I'd like to get to know if they were >real (no, I'm not saying I'm Shay'a'chern, just that Vanyel's character >seems to be close to the ideal person). He's the kind of person >who stands up for what he believes in, which I hope everyone here does. > -Mannaheim Hmmm...I don't know if I'd classify Vanyel as an "ideal person", or even close, for that matter. Please, please, please, PLEASE, all of the Vanyel devotees, I'm not Vanyel bashing in any way, shape, or form . I like Vanyel, and I think that he's a great character, but during some parts of the book he "angsted" so much he almost sounded like one of the X-men. I do have to agree that he _is_ the kind to stand up for what he believe in. Also, I'm begging forgiveness for mixing in the X-men. This post just caught my eye. Fair Winds, Stacy Hunt DuVall duvall.23-+AT+-osu.edu Brain: "It must be taxing to be such a boob." Pinky: "You have no idea." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:28:04 +1100 (EST) From: Craig George To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: threadshifting to aussies ;) Message-ID: (Greatly snipped and generally re-arranged) Aaron James Legg wrote: > On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Alex Neilson wrote: > > > > Kim Hatton > > > Kerry.. Wendy Hill The above (sort of) list, plus myself, makes 6 ausies! ========================================================================== Craig George E-mail: darkmage-+AT+-yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au "We don't like what we don't understand, in fact it scares us" (Disney's "Beauty and the Beast") ========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 00:36:12 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elvensteeds, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, David J. De Riemacker wrote: > magical, sapient, fast, and can change shape to match that of any vehicle. Ummm...should that be sentient, or am I thinking of something else? > motorcycles in Summoned to Tourney, and as a yellow '57 Chevy in....Damn! I > can't remember the name of that one. When the Bough Breaks!!! Someone else who's been reading waaay too much Misty. But *I* don't ramble! >:) |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | I would there were no age between sixteen and three-and-twenty | | or that youth would sleep out the rest, | | for there is nothing in the between but | | getting wenches with child, wronging the ancientry, stealing, fighting | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 16:39:10 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Makaar Message-ID: <9601100539.AA10136-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Kellie or Starwolf wrote: (I think it was Starwolf, but I couldn't figure out the include bits). > > Here's a very radical thought. Let's see if we can look at the conflict > > from a different point of view. > > > > Ma'ar was evil from our viewpoint, i.o.w. we are set up on Urtho's side, to > > consider Urtho the "good" guy. However, throughout the time we spend > > learning > > about Ma'ar, including later on through Falconsbane, there is the real > > possibility that Ma'ar was just a guy protecting his turf. Okaaaaay. Let's consider: Ma'ar, an Adept mage with minor holdings organizes and sabotages (sp?) events such that his Monarch's government is thrown down and forced to flee. Ma'ar steps in to pick up the pieces. Then he forges an army and calmly starts annexing bits and pieces of surrounding territory. At this point he sits down and realizes he has turf and that he'd better start protecting it from all those horrible people (Urtho included) who might try to expanding it further.. Hmm, how can he protect his turf? Simple answer - better take the turf away from all those who might try to take Ma'ar's turf away from him. Somehow that logic is reminiscent of that employed in the Gulf War.. Okay, seriously, I don't mean to be offensive and I normally do try to see both sides of a thing, but I find it difficult when the situation is one of an invasive force and a defensive one. > > Urtho thought he > > was right. Ma'ar thought he was right. Maybe Ma'ar's methods were not the > > most "clean", but then again, Urtho did send Skandranon with a weapon of > > mass destruction, essentially a nuclear device, to take out the enemy and > > anyone within leagues of him. First reaction - why not? Ma'ar did it not 4 hrs earlier. Second reaction - all right, that was a childish reaction. :) This is a valid point. No one's methods in a war are clean, and even though I admit to a more forgiving view of those who are fighting a defensive battle for family & homes (Ma'ar's forces did *not* distinguish between civilian and military remember). Doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong in a bloodbath, you still end up bloody. And as I said elsewhere, Ma'ar only cared about people as possessions.. Look at the way Firesong starts reacting in SR and you'll get a glimpse of the way Ma'ar must have thought. Whew.. moralizing over.. :) > > We learn through Andesha that Ma'ar was sane, that he was very protective of > > his people, and cared for them. It appears as though he lost a little > > humanity every time he took over one of his descendants, just as a serial > > killer would lose a little humanity every time *he* kills again. Errr.. we learn that he was less insane and very protective of his possessions, some of which happened to be sentient creatures. He didn't care for them - he just didn't like other people breaking them. (But I agree he lost sanity and perspective every time he reincarnated). Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 17:03:39 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: new Gryphon/ Storm rising Message-ID: <9601100603.AA10540-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Meg asked: > does anyone know when the new Gryphon book and/or Storm Rising are coming > out in paperback? My copies of TWG and SR are both paperback (and if they're out in paperback here in Australia, they should have been out for 6mths everywhere else in the world). :) Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 17:45:33 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendel Message-ID: <9601100645.AA11939-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Seanna wrote: > > [Kerry wrote:] > > > Now, IMHO, it's due to two things - one Vanyel's very very close links > > > to the Web spell & two Vanyel's marginal empathy.. (You remember, Talia > > > had similar experiences, but less drastic). > > Just BTW, I thought it was his strong mage-Gift and the fact that he > created the web. His Empathy wasn't, IMO, strong enough for it to > work the same way as Talia's. Mmm, but I don't see how a strong mage-Gift even coupled with such a spell could result in him feeling what the other person felt. Although, now that you mention it, he only felt the death of other Herald-Mages [presumably with whom he'd shared magic], so perhaps his line to them due to sharing magic and his connection to them via the Web resulted in a peculiar circumstance which happens to emulate empathy (or boost it..) > > It might also have to do with the fact that his gifts were very > > strong. Weren't they the strongest we've ever seen among Heralds? That > > could also be part of it. > > No, no. Vanyel was very strong on the whole, and he had a stunning > amount of Gifts, but there were stronger Bards, Healers, > Mindspeakers, Empaths etc. I think that the only thing he was the > strongest at was Mage-Gift, and even that with a few reservations. Yeup Yeup.. Actually I like to think Savil was stronger - Vanyel's strength was that he was very quick off the mark so-to-speak - he could ready his energies much faster than most other mages.. Remember, he did have trouble with the mage on his father's property.. Savil was more sensitive than he (in the Mage sense) and better at formal magics. We never really see Van doing much more than fling [huge] amounts of energy around. I agree his gift was very strong, I just don't think he was necessarily stronger than, say, Savil or any other hawk-brother trained adept. If Savil had had Van's speed at manipulating energies or been slightly younger, I wouldn't have wanted to be in that raven-construct's shoes. IMHO of course. Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 17:50:51 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elvensteeds, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., Message-ID: <9601100650.AA11975-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Jaguar wrote: > On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, David J. De Riemacker wrote: > > magical, sapient, fast, and can change shape to match that of any vehicle. > Ummm...should that be sentient, or am I thinking of something else? It could be sentient.. David might have been thinking of pearwood dashboards though.. they've certainly got the temperament for it.. (Another pratchett reference for the uninitiated). Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 17:54:15 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Makaar Message-ID: <9601100654.AA11993-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> [Sorry, I don't often reply to my own posts, but I'm having a dyslexic (lysdexic?) day and can't string a sentence together to save my life, so thought I'd better clarify some of them.] Kerry wrote: > Kellie or Starwolf wrote: (I think it was Starwolf, but I couldn't figure out > the include bits). > > > > Here's a very radical thought. Let's see if we can look at the conflict > > > from a different point of view. > > > > > > Ma'ar was evil from our viewpoint, i.o.w. we are set up on Urtho's side, to > > > consider Urtho the "good" guy. However, throughout the time we spend > > > learning > > > about Ma'ar, including later on through Falconsbane, there is the real > > > possibility that Ma'ar was just a guy protecting his turf. > > Okaaaaay. Let's consider: Ma'ar, an Adept mage with minor holdings organizes > and sabotages (sp?) events such that his Monarch's government is thrown down > and forced to flee. Ma'ar steps in to pick up the pieces. Then he forges an > army and calmly starts annexing bits and pieces of surrounding territory. > > At this point he sits down and realizes he has turf and that he'd better > start protecting it from all those horrible people (Urtho included) who > might try to expanding it further.. Hmm, how can he protect his turf? ^^ stop him from > Simple answer - better take the turf away from all those who might try to > take Ma'ar's turf away from him. Kerry. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 301 *********************************