MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 319 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Names, threads, snow, Men In White by "David Ramsden" 2) Re: Tylendel by "David Ramsden" 3) Re: New Misty Stuff by "David Ramsden" 4) Re: on a more civil note ... some questions by Julie Vaux 5) Re: Coconuts & Queen's Own by mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (puppies and dragons) 6) Re: New Misty Stuff by mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (puppies and dragons) 7) RE: Makaar (& also Gates) by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 8) Re: on a more civil note ... some questions by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 9) Re: re- ROCKY by "Kellie" 10) Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 11) Re: re- ROCKY by Rosario Holsen-Baker 12) Re: Names, threads, snow, Men In White by Mat Timmerman 13) Re: New Misty Stuff by Mat Timmerman 14) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 318 by Korendil 15) Mage-challenges and Magic by "Katherine M. Brielmaier" 16) RE: Makaar (& also Gates) by Queen of the Darned 17) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 318 by Rosario Holsen-Baker 18) Re: Mage-challenges and Magic by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 19) Sacred Ground by Todd Kungas 20) Re: the bells, the bells (esmeralda) by Todd Kungas 21) Re: (Fwd) Bardic Voices vs Valdemar by Todd Kungas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 00:20:27 +0000 From: "David Ramsden" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Names, threads, snow, Men In White Message-ID: <199601150041.AAA02440-+AT+-gate.dungeon.com> > On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Rosario Holsen-Baker wrote: > > > Need's apprentice's name is Vena. I have no idea what Need's name > > is, but I think it *is* Lashan (can't remember who said that :), > > and it's in Winds of Fate *and* Change. > > Hmmm. Sorry, Jag, but I think you're wrong. IIRC, it says that Need > couldn't even remember her old name, it had been so long, and so > they just kept calling her Need. > > I\/ Catherine Osborne "After great pain, > I\/ Sundancer a formal feeling comes." > I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu --Emily Dickinson I > http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ > Need lied when she said she couldn't remeber her name she told it to narya once saying she was the only one of her bearers she had told her name to. David Ramsden - Avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com ---------------------------------------- Bishop: I can promise that in this other world, there is hope. Hope that by working hard enough and reaching far enough others like us can someday rid the world of the fear and predjudice and hatred that claimed this one. Illyana: Then I'd rather have - hope than nothing at all. - from X-men Omega ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 00:20:26 +0000 From: "David Ramsden" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendel Message-ID: <199601150041.AAA02443-+AT+-gate.dungeon.com> > On Sun, 7 Jan 1996, Mat Timmerman wrote: > > > IIRC, the reason that Vanyel could sense all the Heralds was > > because he was a Guardian of the Web. > > Well, me-+AT+-friend's, books-+AT+-home, but I think (I'll try to quote here > ;) Vanyel says every mage shares "a line" with every other mage he's > done magic with, but he (Vanyel) has a line to every Herald "just by > virtue of them being Heralds. This might be in Magic's Promise, when > he contacts the operative in Karse? Hmm. > Actually IIRC I think it is when he and Yfandes have a look at Randale at the begining of Magics Promise David Ramsden - Avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com ---------------------------------------- Bishop: I can promise that in this other world, there is hope. Hope that by working hard enough and reaching far enough others like us can someday rid the world of the fear and predjudice and hatred that claimed this one. Illyana: Then I'd rather have - hope than nothing at all. - from X-men Omega ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 00:43:10 +0000 From: "David Ramsden" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: New Misty Stuff Message-ID: <199601150044.AAA02478-+AT+-gate.dungeon.com> > > > > From: Gyrfalcon > > > > KKKK> >On Sat, 13 Jan 1996, David Ramsden wrote: > > > > >> How about the establishment of the clan back n the planes. Or > >> the > > >> troubles they had with the noble that was after Kerowyn's > > >> mother for her money? > > > >Speaking of the possibility of a new Tarma/Kethry/Warrl novel > > > >did > anybody > > >notice that we bump into Tarma again at the end of the first > > >Winds book? I don't happen to have the book with me, a friend has > > >borrowed it again. > > > > It's in Winds of Change, hardcover p. 240. > > > > "They crowded in behind Kra'heera, black clad, some veiled, > > some not, leading night-black horses. And the veiled ones > > seemed to shimmer with power, as if they were not quite of this > > world. :So we are not," said a voice in her head, and she > > stifled another start, One set of ice-blu eyes over a black > > veil caught her attention; one of those eyes winked, slowly and > > deliberately. :Be at peace, little sister-in-power, student of > > my student.:" > > > > It took me awhile to find that too! All we know from this is that > > Tarma is dead by the time of WoChange. This makes sense, > > considering how old she was in the beginning of BTS. She was > > probably dead by the end of BTS, if not in the seven years or so > > until Winds. > > > One thing has always bothered me with this. Tarma states in > Oathbound that all her spirit-teachers have been dead at least 100 > years. WoC probably isn't more than a few years after Tarma's death > - maybe extraordinary events allow Leshya'e Kal'enedral to "go out > into the world" much sooner, or perhaps they only have to wait 100 > years before they can teach a student? > > Kristin > It dosen't say that they have to be a hundred years before they can teach, only that tarma's teachers were David Ramsden - Avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com ---------------------------------------- Bishop: I can promise that in this other world, there is hope. Hope that by working hard enough and reaching far enough others like us can someday rid the world of the fear and predjudice and hatred that claimed this one. Illyana: Then I'd rather have - hope than nothing at all. - from X-men Omega ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:58:46 +1100 (EST) From: Julie Vaux To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: on a more civil note ... some questions Message-ID: <199601150058.LAA19133-+AT+-metz.une.edu.au> Now that I've spanked the children to get thier attention ... back to mercedes lackey and keep that mewling of pain down to a murmur kits ... Larry's artwork - this is one of the more interesting questions which has unfortunately been "snowed under" I feel myself larry's renditions of male characters are displayed to appeal to both males and females and as I wrote several months back there are few artists who seem to be able to do this ...they either draw handsome males who are "elvish" cos they think girls want cutesy stuff or draw "macho" musclebound types or worse those ugly drawing for the gay market of deformed teenagers with moutasches, steriod abuse and very strange penile conformations ... Now my idea (danger danger risk of crossposting) of male beauty is someone built like brent spiner (NOT data - brent spiner) moves beautifully , gymnastic rather than althetic, gentle, witty, has a reasonable head of hairshaves and washes regularly knows how to use a comb and brush reads a variety of books interesting eyes expressive good but simple taste in clothes What is your ideal of masculine beauty and WHY do you Like OR DISlike larry's method of depicting males? I would be interested to know how he paints or renders nudes ... (cheeky bit) perhaps ML knows and hopefully there's some drawings we'll never see with certain people smiling? Any other views on larry's artwork??? Julie Vaux almost back to human - sometimes like Opus the Penguin I wish for wings that work! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 18:19:11 -0700 (MST) From: mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (puppies and dragons) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Coconuts & Queen's Own Message-ID: <199601150119.SAA15898-+AT+-usr6.primenet.com> At 12:58 AM 1/15/96 GMT, David J. De Riemacker wrote: > > I've seen this message a few times, so it is making it >>through. And my Companion wants to know where you're going to get >>a white coconut. And if you did, which kind of swallow would >>carry it. > > 'Reesa Raennsyr > >>(I just can't get off the swallows:) > > > Oh, no you don't, Raennsyr. Not right after I promised not to go >off-topic, at least. European, I think. African are nonmigratory...Oh, damn! >Pulled in again. Will I ever learn? > And to all: Do you get Queen's Own? I got that card I mentioned in the >latest issue, and was wondering if it went out to everyone. It has a picture of >Skan on it, and is signed "Larry" and, I think "W". I presume it's supposed >to be a Happy Holidays card, but I'm left to guess: Since the part where the >message would be has been torn off. I would presume we all got one, maybe even >some not cut in half. Tell me, I'm dying to know. > Still eating humble pie, > Whiteraven > > Actually, as of last Saturday, I_do_have a Coconut Companion in my >gryphon grooming kit. I don't take it out in the presence of actual Companions, >though. Turns out, Companions don't have real good senses of humor when it >comes to coconuts. Onward...Mighty Steed. > > Okay, I'm still of the opinion that the message about off topics was from someone with no sense of humor, but I'll not go into that. I got the holiday card too, and I think it was supposed to be like a postcard, not a greeting card. And I have it on good authority that Misty's signiture is the next thing to unreadable, so it's my guess that we have been officially greeted by Herald-Chronicler Miste herself. And do you think a barn swallow could carry a white-coconut? Or is a barn swallow a sub-speices of the European (Yes, I just did that to annoy people... ;) 'Reesa Raennsyr, the thoroughly unrepentant ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 18:35:56 -0700 (MST) From: mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (puppies and dragons) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: New Misty Stuff Message-ID: <199601150135.SAA26235-+AT+-usr3.primenet.com> At 01:23 AM 1/15/96 GMT, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > > >On Sun, 14 Jan 1996 ps9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu wrote: > >> >> > "They crowded in behind Kra'heera, black clad, some veiled, >> > some not, leading night-black horses. And the veiled ones >> > seemed to shimmer with power, as if they were not quite of this >> > world. >> > :So we are not," said a voice in her head, and she >> > stifled another start, One set of ice-blu eyes over a black >> > veil caught her attention; one of those eyes winked, slowly >> > and deliberately. :Be at peace, little sister-in-power, >> > student of my student.:" >> > >> > It took me awhile to find that too! All we know from this is that >> > Tarma is dead by the time of WoChange. This makes sense, considering >> > how old she was in the beginning of BTS. She was probably dead by the >> > end of BTS, if not in the seven years or so until Winds. >> > >> > Mat >> > >> > -- >> > >> I always assumed that it was one of Tarma's spirit teachers, but >> now that I look at the quote again, I realize that it could only be >> the one and only Tarma. The question I ask is if that is Tarma, >> what happened to Kethry and Warrl? I realize they must be dead, but >> you'd think that Tarma wouldn't be the only one to "come back" of the >> three. >> >> "Without darkness there can be no light" >> Stacey >> > But Tarma was the only one that was swordsworn. IIRC all the >swordsworn come back. As for the others, everyone can't be reincarnated, >can they? Or maybe Kethry is still alive. Don't mages live a lot longer >than ordinary people? I think in one of the books it says that using >magic preserves a mage. So Kethry might still be alive. As for Warrl, I'm >not sure how long Kyrees live, or if they are even reincarnated. Maybe >they a long life span? > > (:*BECKY*:) > > My thought would be that Kethry and Warrl are dead, and probably either resting between lives (unlike Tylendel, who appears to have been sent back right after he died (could have something to do with that "No rest for the wicked" thing) or are already back and in their early childhoods. Depending on wether or not you believe in transmigration, Warrl is most likely still a Kyree, and Keth could be anybody. She doesn't even have to be on the same continent anymore. What if she came back as one of Selenay's twins? They'd be about the right age wouldn't they? I think though, that we probably won't see her again. Although she'd make an interesting Comapnion... Not much help, sorry. 'Reesa Raennsyr mrtmh-+AT+-primnet.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 13:14:37 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Makaar (& also Gates) Message-ID: <9601150214.AA10121-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> A bit belated, but I've been having email problems lately. Seanna wrote: > Kerry wrote: > [in response to StarWolf's (?) thought experiment with Ma'ar being a > "good guy"] > > > And as I said elsewhere, Ma'ar only cared about people as possessions.. > > Look at the way Firesong starts reacting in SR and you'll get a glimpse > > of the way Ma'ar must have thought. > > Hmm? Did you mean that Firesong reacts the same way Ma'ar did, and > possibly for the same reasons? An interesting thought. I thought > Firesong's insanity (warpedness) just randomly happened to be alike > Ma'ar's. I'd say the reasons are totally different... Opinions? I agree that the original causes were different, in that there were no mage-storms racking the land when Ma'ar was around, but I suspect that endrocline (sp?) - gland - imbalances that Firesong experienced may have been what Ma'ar suffered from. Insanity doesn't just happen from nothing, there's often a causitive / traumatic event, an abused childhood, or physical problems in the brain / glands.. (particularly the latter). Look at classic behaviour symptoms when basic hormones (eg estrogen or testosterone) are out of balance. In a lot of cases, people can't be blamed for their reactions - yes they can be blamed for *not controlling them* but not for the fact that those reactions exist in the first place. I did indeed mean Firesong was reacting the way Ma'ar would have - treating power sources as his, expecting people to ask him before doing *anything* - I can't put it strongly enough with descriptions like that. Look at what Firesong thinks - things like "How *dare* he!" (... use the heartstone, have friends besides Firesong, make Firesong uncomfortable etc..). Look at the way Firesong exploded about Aya.. then look at the way Ma'ar reacts to the 'gryphons' at the end of Winds. Thinking back, I retract the comment I made about Urtho being a twit for thinking that if he could sit down with Ma'ar and talk rationally with him, Ma'ar could be helped back to sanity.. Urtho was a Sorceror-Adept (and I think, with the emphasis on sorceror) - if there was anyone who would have been familiar with endrocline / hormone imbalances and related behaviour, it would have been he. Perhaps there was a concrete reason for his statement. On a related note, the reason I originally said that the Empire was probably not founded by Urtho's people was twofold. Firstly, them having permanent gates didn't mean anything - Urtho never taught anyone how to do it & if anyone was likely to learn from his notes, it would have been the K'Leshyae clan. Secondly, while I know Urtho had mercenaries in his troops, I had the distinct impression that said mercenaries were pretty much in accordance with the rest of Urtho's people in terms of ethics etc. There's also the practical point of view - Ma'ar had many more mercenaries than Urtho - if the empire was founded by fleeing mercenaries, they'd be more likely to be Ma'ar's. (Plus the timing required to get their Gate blown off course by the Mage-storm/explosions indicates Ma'ars - K'Leshyae were the last of Urtho's people to go through gates and they were the ones caught by the blast.. Opinions? Cheers, Kerry.. "Just when you thought it was safe..." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 14:11:58 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: on a more civil note ... some questions Message-ID: <9601150311.AA10385-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Julie Vax wrote: > Larry's artwork - this is one of the more interesting questions > which has unfortunately been "snowed under" Puns.. closet xanth'ite! > I feel myself larry's renditions of male characters are displayed to > appeal to both males and females and as I wrote several months > back there are few artists who seem to be able to do this ...they either > draw handsome males who are "elvish" cos they think girls want cutesy stuff > or draw "macho" musclebound types or worse those ugly drawing for the gay > market of deformed teenagers with moutasches, steriod abuse and very > strange penile conformations ... Just in passing, some gay friends who'd be very very insulted by the particular phrasing of that last statement.. Perhaps it would be much more accurate to say "that minimal segment of the gay market.". Or perhaps not, but anyway.. the implicit stereotyping just caught my attention. > Now my idea (danger danger risk of crossposting) of male beauty > is someone built like brent spiner (NOT data - brent spiner) > moves beautifully , gymnastic rather than althetic, gentle, > witty, has a reasonable head of hairshaves and washes regularly > knows how to use a comb and brush reads a variety of books > interesting eyes expressive good but simple taste in clothes When did you say you were moving to Sydney? :) (I notice you didn't include "spends far too much time on the net & reading email" as one of the criteria.. though given the current audience it might have been assumed..) :) > What is your ideal of masculine beauty and WHY do you Like OR > DISlike larry's method of depicting males? Clean-cut & face that shows personality. No weak chins. Basically male or female, anyone who keeps themselves reasonably fit is going to look good. (And not just because they're in shape, but there's a certain glow of healthiness that can easily be on a par with just physical beauty.) IMO. > Any other views on larry's artwork??? Love the gryphons.. it must be very hard to get a intelligent look in drawing creatures without hitting the cutesy my-little-pony stage (yeah, I've got a little sister), especially for creatures with no real-world counterpart to study. > Julie Vaux almost back to human - > > sometimes like Opus the Penguin I wish for wings that work! "We are each of us angels with only one wing, and we can only fly by embracing one another." -- Luciano de Crescenzo Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 21:14:05 CST From: "Kellie" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re- ROCKY Message-ID: <2D4D6095C9F-+AT+-athena.valpo.edu> > > On Thu, 11 Jan 1996, Queen of the Darned wrote: > > > > *SHadow-Lover rises from the Shadows of Kellie's room and begins to do > > > the Time Warp* "Feel free to jump in anytime" > > > > > > It's just a jump to the left.... > > > > > > > > > - Shadow-Lover > > And then a step to the riiiiiiight > > You do the pelvic thrust... That really drives yiou insa a a ne... -Kellie Kellie Myers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 14:50:55 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: Message-ID: <9601150350.AA10546-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> David Ramsden wrote: > Shadow-lover wrote: > > :I challenge you, adept to adept, to a battle... Either except or > > lose your rank...: > > I never understood why an adept would lose skillss built up over a > lifetime on the outcome of a battle. I mean If you win or lose > surley you would still posses what you have learned. You don't. The passage suggests that when faced with challenge by another adept, you must either back down *such that the challenge is no longer required* or accept (not except) the challenge. Losing a battle is its own punishment.. Magic is not a science, I have no trouble with believing that part of being an adept is a sufficient belief in yourself to accept a formalized challenge.. refuse that challenge and you just might lose that hard-won control that makes you an adept. Remember, these adepts come from a different background from the Herald-Mages - Kethry has her own White-Winds source of power (which to me seems like much more than a simple pool of power created by WW mages - more like an elemental, deity or etherial (sp?) plane entity..) Remember, it's stated fairly often that it's *control* that makes an adept, not raw power alone.. there's a statement somewhere that someone would never get beyond Master level unless he learnt control.. (and this is borne out by numerous examples of mages doing more than they ought to be able to when control isn't an issue - Ancar nearly plastering two Adepts, that low-level mage nearly getting Vanyel at his folks' place...) Cheers, Kerry. "Any science sufficiently advanced, can be considered an art.." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 23:11:00 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re- ROCKY Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Jan 1996, Kellie wrote: > > On Thu, 11 Jan 1996, Queen of the Darned wrote: > > > > *SHadow-Lover rises from the Shadows of Kellie's room and begins to do > > > > the Time Warp* "Feel free to jump in anytime" > > > > > > > > It's just a jump to the left.... > > > > - Shadow-Lover > > > And then a step to the riiiiiiight > > You do the pelvic thrust... > That really drives yiou insa a a ne... *Jaguar takes a brief time-out to Time Warp with Shadow-Lover (I assume Shadow-Lover is agreeable to this?)* LET'S DO THE TIME WARP AGAIN!!!!!! |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | He screams and screams and pounds his head against the wall until | | wailing phantom firetrucks paces across his vision. | | PAIN. PAIN IS ALL HE WANTS: We shall never forget and never forgive. | | AND NEVER EVER FEAR | |FEAR IS FOR THE ENEMY FEAR AND BULLETS | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 00:50:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Names, threads, snow, Men In White Message-ID: <01I00QV38YZS91WMCX-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Catherine Osborne > >On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Rosario Holsen-Baker wrote: > >> Need's apprentice's name is Vena. I have no idea what Need's name >> is, but I think it *is* Lashan (can't remember who said that :), and it's >> in Winds of Fate *and* Change. > >Hmmm. Sorry, Jag, but I think you're wrong. IIRC, it says that Need >couldn't even remember her old name, it had been so long, and so they >just kept calling her Need. She said that in Winds of Fate. Then, in Winds of Change, she sends Nyara through a little memory sequence that picks up where the one she gave Elspeth left off. Seh then says that she granted Nyara soemthing she rarely ever gives her barer; her name. Mat -- Mat Timmerman "They want to stop the ones who want accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu prosthetic foreheads on their heads. But mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu everybody wants prosthetic foreheads on mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu their real heads." -- They Might Be Giants http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 00:57:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: New Misty Stuff Message-ID: <01I00R1DJU1A91WMCX-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: ps9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu > My Tarma quote from WoC snipped... > I always assumed that it was one of Tarma's spirit teachers, but >now that I look at the quote again, I realize that it could only be >the one and only Tarma. The question I ask is if that is Tarma, >what happened to Kethry and Warrl? I realize they must be dead, but >you'd think that Tarma wouldn't be the only one to "come back" of the >three. But remember that speculation of Warrl's in Oathbreakers that the Star-Eyed might keep him along with Tarma after she dies. It's right after he brings her mind back after Thalkarsh wiped it. Then Tarma proceedes to get kinda teary about it. :) Although the reason he wasn't in the scene in WoC is that a leysha'e kyree would probably conufse the k'Sheyna, instead of reasuring them of k'Leysha's validity as Kaled'a'in (I wonder if I'm the only one that always remembers how to spell that? :) ). Mat accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu "They want to stop the ones who want mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu prosthetic foreheads on their heads. But mtimme47-+AT+-ada.hofstra.edu everybody wants prosthetic foreheads on mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu their real heads." -- They Might Be Giants http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 23:56:55 -0600 From: Korendil To: Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 318 Message-ID: <199601150556.XAA25057-+AT+-ns.cent.com> gods its been too long....I stop reading when everyone gets grumpy..and come back to find....well, there isn't a word for this...yes there is...no there ISN'T...I tell you there IS...no there---wait, there is...see? I'm ALWAYS right...errmrmrmrmrmr....come back to this...list atmosphere which has once again retunred...that was NOT the word I was thinking of...well TOO BAD....I'm going to sulk...good. I guess I WILL strat reading again:) One thing is I HATE digests...whats the command to get individual letters?..._I_ know the answer! hah!...well TELL me!...no...no? NO?! please?...no. you didn't use my word:(...argh. I'll have the LIST answer!...go do it then..I will...good. I think I'm going to shut up now...great idea, IMHO...humble? Since WHEN have you been humble?!...fine...IMO...thats better ************ AWESOME ASCII-Art .sig *in the making* Till then: Korendil -+AT+- undermac ; rubin-+AT+-cent.com ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 01:04:40 CST From: "Katherine M. Brielmaier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Mage-challenges and Magic Message-ID: <20202.brie0030-+AT+-gold.tc.umn.edu> On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 04:11:29 GMT, Kerry Mealing wrote: >Magic is not a science, Why not? From what I can see, it has laws, codes of conduct, specific methods and lots of theory. A mage doing a spell can't just say any old thing he wants to--he/she has to follow the formula of the spell in order to get the proper results. Not too different from science, IMO. There are rules involved--even if they're broken, that requires a rule to have existed--and there are specific things that must be done, or cannot be done, to ensure the success of magic. >Remember, it's stated fairly often that it's *control* that makes an adept, >not raw power alone.. there's a statement somewhere that someone would >never get beyond Master level unless he learnt control.. Again, this would seem to bear with my magic-as-science theory. A powerful mage without control (i.e. a good understanding of the rules, and practices needed in magery) would not be as useful as a less-powerful mage who was able to make use of everything available to him (believe that's somewhere in the books too...). As you said, sheer power is good up to a point, but unless you know what you're doing, it's hard to be truly skilled. Much like a science: sure, you can make things happen as a result, but you're not going to get the full benefit unless you know exactly what you're doing. Just my .02 's e do bheatha Kaatje "Any science sufficiently advanced can be considered magic." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 01:23:45 -0500 (EST) From: Queen of the Darned To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Makaar (& also Gates) Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Jan 1996, Kerry Mealing wrote: > > On a related note, the reason I originally said that the Empire was probably > not founded by Urtho's people was twofold. Firstly, them having permanent Ok, I don't think this is spoiler stuff, since it's on the front flap of White Griphon, but I'll put spaces here anyway. :) Ok, I haven't read White Griphon yet, so my ignorance may shine through, but IIRC, Skan is supposed to encounter the empire, already founded. If that's the case and it's either Urtho's people, or Ma'ar's people, they did that *awfully* fast! It could be from another part of the world. It's never been established that Ma'ar and Urtho were the only two controlling forces in the world, just that they were the most powerful in the area and the most remembered for causing the Mage Storms. :) Ok, feel free to correct my ignorance. :) Jenny <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> "Well, then, if you do not wish death, how about a rubber chicken?" -- Beeker as the Serious Figure in Gummo Bergman's "Silent Strawberries" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 01:42:52 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 318 Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Jan 1996, Korendil wrote: > I think I'm going to shut up now...great idea, IMHO...humble? Since WHEN > have you been humble?!...fine...IMO...thats better > Are you schizophrenic, or are you just talking to your Companion? Which, according to some of my ignorent friends, is the same thing...but what in the nine hells do they know?!?!?!!! <---5 !!!!! |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | He screams and screams and pounds his head against the wall until | | wailing phantom firetrucks paces across his vision. | | PAIN. PAIN IS ALL HE WANTS: We shall never forget and never forgive. | | AND NEVER EVER FEAR | |FEAR IS FOR THE ENEMY FEAR AND BULLETS | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 17:51:45 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mage-challenges and Magic Message-ID: <9601150651.AA13310-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Kaatje' wrote: > Kerry wrote: > >Magic is not a science, > > Why not? From what I can see, it has laws, codes of conduct, specific > methods and lots of theory. A mage doing a spell can't just say any old > thing he wants to--he/she has to follow the formula of the spell in order > to get the proper results. Not too different from science, IMO. There > are rules involved--even if they're broken, that requires a rule to have > existed--and there are specific things that must be done, or cannot be > done, to ensure the success of magic. > 's e do bheatha Whoops.. Poor phraseology on my part - it would have been more correct to say that Magic is not an *exact* science - "exact science" meaning a science where the rules are not completely understood, or where sheer complexity and chaos theory sometimes means results may be unpredictable. And really, when you look at the books Ma'ar himself indicates that magic is not an exact science anymore - the bonds of magic, the things that made it react predictably and reliably etc etc were shattered - mages in current-time Velgarth are trying to work with the broken pieces.. It *may* be that the effect of the mage-storms will be to put the pieces back together again - I suspect it will.. and if it wasn't Misty writing, I'd have a niggling suspicions she's setting the world up for a return of "the golden age" where magic works reliably and great civilizations are free to build up etc etc. Of course, I don't think Misty would pull such a lame trick.. I hope.. Cheers, Kerry.. "We know that the drop will drip, but not when or how often." -- Chaos theory summarized. (The dripping tap.) > Kaatje > > "Any science sufficiently advanced can be considered magic." > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 00:15:52 -0700 From: Todd Kungas To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Sacred Ground Message-ID: <9601150715.AA17610-+AT+-wtpprod1.wtp.net> Anyone read "Sacred Ground", I finished it a couple of mounts ago, and thought it was very good. It made me wonder were to find info on Spirt Animals. But so far I haven't found much. Anyone have any ideas. For those who haven't read it hears a part of the back cover. "Jennifer Talldeer is Osage and Cherokee, granddaughter of a powerfull Medicine Man. she walks a difficult path: contrary to tribal custom, she is learning a warrior's magics. A freelance private investigator, Jennifer spends hours tracking down stolen magical Indian artifacts."[TOR books 1994] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Equine: an484352-+AT+-anon.penet.fi USA O thou, my milk-white pony, whose coat is as the moon-beams of this autumn night, carry me like a bird through the air.... [by Murasaki Shikabu (974-1031)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 00:35:31 -0700 From: Todd Kungas To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the bells, the bells (esmeralda) Message-ID: <9601150735.AA29667-+AT+-wtpprod1.wtp.net> At 21:11 01/14/96 GMT, you wrote: >On Sun, 7 Jan 1996, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > >> It seems interesting....but f course they're not after me. > >Wait. Just wait. They get *everyone* sooner or later. > >*** >The D.C. chapter of The Men In White, Inc., is roused from its beds by a >shrill alarm. "There's another one, boys," calls the secretary. "Name of >Christensen, Becky Ann. She's been asking too many questions lately, >getting dangerous. The big boss says it's time to take her out. > >Two of TMIW wearily start to load the truck. "OK, we got our wirecutters, >we got our magelights, we got our guide to PUNishment by the Master of >Gryns himself. Better take a set of restraints just in case she's got one >of those damn white horses. Wiped my memory clean out, the last one did. >Now, did you remember the snow shovels?" >*** True they come, but for my area they need to pack in some Kevlar Vests, and a snow shovel or three. Buy they way waych out for the Red & Blue Lights ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Equine: an484352-+AT+-anon.penet.fi USA O thou, my milk-white pony, whose coat is as the moon-beams of this autumn night, carry me like a bird through the air.... [by Murasaki Shikabu (974-1031)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 00:39:09 -0700 From: Todd Kungas To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: (Fwd) Bardic Voices vs Valdemar Message-ID: <9601150739.AA15132-+AT+-wtpprod1.wtp.net> 01/13/96 GMT, you wrote: >1/13/96 GMT, Todd Kungas wrote: >> 01/12/96 GMT, you wrote: >>> >>> >>>Does anyone out there in Lackey land prefer the Bardic Voices books to >>>the Velgrath ones? >>> >>>Also what are the Bard's Tale and Wing Commander novels by Misty like? >>>David Ramsden - Avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com >>> >> I've read her Bard's tale books >> But I haven't read the Wing Commander novels yet > > I read a couple of the Wing Commander books (not sure how >many of them there are) and they kind of left me cold. I think >one of the reasons that I like Misty is her great worlds, and >maybe she doesn't work as well with established ones. Same thing >with Bard's Tale books. I Like the ones with Rune and everyone, >just in case I missed something, and those are what we're talking >about. > Mareesa Raennsyr > Thanks for the info. I may try one of them anyway, I'll just check the local second hand shop. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Equine: an484352-+AT+-anon.penet.fi USA O thou, my milk-white pony, whose coat is as the moon-beams of this autumn night, carry me like a bird through the air.... [by Murasaki Shikabu (974-1031)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 319 *********************************