MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 321 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: illustrations by Ashke 2) Re: re- myriad subjects by Ashke 3) Re: the bells, the bells (esmeralda) by Tammy Harris 4) Re: Sci-Fi vs fantasy by CHONNI 5) Re: illustrations by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 6) Re: Tarma by ps9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu 7) Larry Dixon's art by Rosario Holsen-Baker 8) Re: the bells, the bells (esmeralda) by Rosario Holsen-Baker 9) re: speaking of historical questions by CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com 10) re: Vanyel and the Vales by CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com 11) re: changing civilizations by CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com 12) re: adepts and rank by CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com 13) Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: by Rosario Holsen-Baker 14) Re: civil note posting ... by Julie Vaux 15) Re: the bells, the bells (esmeralda) by "Kellie" 16) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 320- 2 things by Julie Vaux 17) re: adepts and rank by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 18) Re: Sci-Fi vs fantasy by Mat Timmerman 19) Re: Contacting Firebird from the UK by Mat Timmerman 20) Re: Vanyel and the Vales by Mat Timmerman 21) Re: re- myriad subjects by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 22) Nitpicking time was Re: changing civilizations by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 23) Re: Vanyel and the Vales by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 24) Re: Sacred Ground by Todd Kungas 25) Larry Dixon's art by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 26) Re: the bells, the bells (esmeralda) by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 27) Re: Tarma/Keth/Waarl by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 28) Re: Adepts & nodes (was re: mating gryphons) by "Sanna Koulu" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:03:36 -0500 (EST) From: Ashke To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: illustrations Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Jan 1996, Mat Timmerman wrote: > From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) > > > >Oh yes! Jodi lee's Vanyel _is_ Vanyel. Brook no rivals. > > > Except that on the cover of Magic's Price, Vanyel's hair should have > been white. Node-magic, you know. > > Mat > accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu > http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ > Well salt and pepper maybe.......But I do love teh Vanyel picturess> Maybe thats because he is my favorite character. Ashke ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:05:18 -0500 (EST) From: Ashke To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re- myriad subjects Message-ID: > > > > Actually, you do. Also, I totally agree. Should we have a vote on > > this list on who Urtho reincarnated to (Van, Firesong or no one?) > > > > > > > > -Seanna > > > > > > > Yes! Lets. I agree. I shall cast the first vote. I think Urtho was > reincarnated as both Vanyel AND Firesong. Anyone else? > -Declan > > How is that possible when Firesong met "Van" in the forrest of sorrows ? Ashke ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:43:51 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the bells, the bells (esmeralda) Message-ID: <397861E478B-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> On Sun, Jan 14, Gyrfalcon wrote: > On Sun, 14 Jan 1996, Catherine Osborne wrote: > > > The D.C. chapter of The Men In White, Inc., > > See! See! It's not just me! I was framed. Brainwashed! I'm innocent I > tell you! Innocent!!!!! <--Look 5! > Don't play innocent with me!!! (it doesn't work, anyway--I know you better than that!) I've read your contract! No more preying on the hapless and helpless! We know the truth!!! You may have delegated some of it, but we know you're the evil mastermind behind TMIW (tm). If you don't watch out, The Ladies in Green (TLIG, pat. pend.) will be after you. And once they're after you, THERE IS NO ESCAPE!!!!!!!!!! (how many ! is that?) Just a friendly warning! Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 14:47:51 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sci-Fi vs fantasy Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Jan 1996 dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl wrote: > Declan wrote (Friday 12 Jan): > > >On Fri, 12 Jan 1996, CHONNI wrote: > > > >> As far as I'm concerned, there are 3 things that make a good > >> writer (in no particular order). Style, characterizaiton and plot. Sci-fi > >> writers tend to only use plot and characterization, while Fantasy uses > >> characterization and plot. > > > >Fantasy uses characterization and plot? While Sci-fi uses plot and > >characterization? Waaaaait a minute. Did I read that right? What > >happened to the part about style? I think Fantasy books have a LOT more > >style than most Sci-fi books, especially Misty. Eddings is ok, but in > >the Elenium series he uses the same ploys over and over again. I won't > >go in to detail unless someone wants to discuss him too. > -Declan Okay, I think most fantasy does have more style than sf, but it's not by much. I know, fightin' words. Personally, I read fantasy for the characters and then plot. Style usually doesn't come into it, except for the odd writer like DeLint. I read sf for plot first and then characterization, and THEN style. Misty is a good writer, but she doesn't have a lot of style. So what? That doesn't stop me from buying, reading and enjoying her books. As for Eddings, I read him for his sense of humour, his well developed characters, not for his plot. Besides, one of the things he is saying is that events repeat themselves until the problem (what ever that may be) is resolved. I find Robert Jordan does the same thing, only with more words and lots more characters. > I would say that a lot of Sci-Fi uses too much detail and not > enough characterisation. ML's books are rich because her people are strongly > charactered - they make you care what happens to them, and you want to know if > they lived happily/contentedly/peacably ever after. A lot of Sci-Fi gets > lost in the Sci bit, and forgets to people it's plots. I find most Heinlein > OK because he does populate his books, although I don't particularly > care about his characters. I loved it in By The Sword when totally out of > the blue Talia and Dirk enter the plot - these were people I'd enjoyed > reading about in Arrows, and here they were - it was a meeting of old friends! > _That's_ what few Sci-Fi books do. > > Esmeralda Evensbane Exactly; most sflovers read it for the ideas, the concepts and the plot. Characters are often secondary, though not necessarily. So, does this clear up my POV? And yes, Esmeralda Evensbane, welcome to the world of personas; may you enjoy it as much as the rest of us! Herald Chonni Brightwolf aka The Duchess of the City of Twilight aka Scorpio Pink, Astral-navigator of the "Flaming Moo" soon to be Wavingmoon, a Tayledras (scout or mage; haven't decided) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 10:38:50 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: illustrations Message-ID: <9601152338.AA19502-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> > On Sat, 13 Jan 1996, Mat Timmerman wrote: > > From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) > > > > > >Oh yes! Jodi lee's Vanyel _is_ Vanyel. Brook no rivals. > > > > > Except that on the cover of Magic's Price, Vanyel's hair should have > > been white. Node-magic, you know. > > > > Mat > > accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu > > http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ > > Details.. Artistic licence perhaps.. :) Possibly it would have been confusing / off-putting for new readers .. most likely Jody lee hadn't read (or been given) all of the manuscripts to read before coming up with the covers (I understand that this is almost par-for-the-course in being a book cover-illustrator).. Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 18:04:25 -0600 From: ps9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tarma Message-ID: <1CD533061E8-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu> > >'Reesa Raennsyr wrote: > > > >> > >> My thought would be that Kethry and Warrl are dead, and > >>probably either resting between lives (unlike Tylendel, who appears > > > >> Warrl is most likely still a Kyree, > > > >Doesn't Waarl say in Vows and Honour 2 that he'll ask the Goddess to take > >him when Tarma dies, and she's all overcome (well as all overcome as Tarma > >can be). So if she's dead, so's he. > > > >Esmeralda > >**************************************************************************** > >* The shortest unit of time in the multiverse is the New York Second, * > >* defined as the period of time between the traffic lights turning green * > >* and the cab behind you honking. * > >* -- Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies -- * > >**************************************************************************** > > > > > I conceed! I had completely forgotten about that! So now > we know where Warrl is, but do you have any thoughts on Keth? > > 'Reesa Raennsyr > We know that warrl died with tarma. Weren't they soul-bonded or something like that? I would like to know what happened to his soul now that he is dead. Did he become a Leshya Kyree or did he become reincarnated? I was thinking that since Tarma was now a 'spirit teacher' warrl would be with her since they were soul-bonded, I think. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. What happened to Kethry also puzzles me because she and Tarma also had some type of bond courtesy of the Goddess and I can't see Kethry living without Tarma or them being separated for that matter. Any thoughts? "Without darkness there can be no light" Stacey ps9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 19:31:30 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Larry Dixon's art Message-ID: I'm not going to include all the posts on this, but I do agree that a lot of the men (and women, too) are a bit the same. I read a large (probably excessive :) number of comic books, and it seems that most of those artists don't draw uniform men and women. Although that could just be the personalities I've come to know and love/hate. And if we're going into good-looking men...the first guy I ever remember agonizing over was David Bowie (whose face is now permanently stuck in my head), and does anyone else think that picture of Darkwind (w/Firesong) in SW looks like David Bowie? It's just that picture too, which is disturbing, since I don't think Darkwind has any right looking like David Bowie... I'm babbling. I think I lost my mind again. Anyone seen it? |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | He screams and screams and pounds his head against the wall until | | wailing phantom firetrucks paces across his vision. | | PAIN. PAIN IS ALL HE WANTS: We shall never forget and never forgive. | | AND NEVER EVER FEAR | |FEAR IS FOR THE ENEMY FEAR AND BULLETS | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 19:34:22 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the bells, the bells (esmeralda) Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Jan 1996, Tammy Harris wrote: > Don't play innocent with me!!! (it doesn't work, anyway--I know > you better than that!) I've read your contract! No more preying on > the hapless and helpless! We know the truth!!! You may have > delegated some of it, but we know you're the evil mastermind behind > TMIW (tm). If you don't watch out, The Ladies in Green (TLIG, pat. > pend.) will be after you. And once they're after you, THERE IS NO > ESCAPE!!!!!!!!!! (how many ! is that?) Would the Ladies in Green like to team up with the Cat People for that endeavor? I know any number of my friends who are spoiling for a good hunt... |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | He screams and screams and pounds his head against the wall until | | wailing phantom firetrucks paces across his vision. | | PAIN. PAIN IS ALL HE WANTS: We shall never forget and never forgive. | | AND NEVER EVER FEAR | |FEAR IS FOR THE ENEMY FEAR AND BULLETS | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 22:19:49 -0500 From: CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: speaking of historical questions Message-ID: <960115221311_62247010-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> I asked about Highjorune. Mat suggested it was destroyed in the earthquake at the end of MPromise, and Jaguar proposed that both Highjorune and Qorthes (the capital of Baires) were absorbed into Valdemar and are now minor cities. Okay, I agree that Lineas and Baires were absorbed into Valdemar, although I don't see why that means the cities should disappear from the maps. I can't see Highjorune being destroyed by the earthquake, though, because I'm sure someone would have mentioned to Vanyel when he woke up, "Hey, Van, you know that clever solution you came up with of draining the node and causing an earthquake? It really wiped out the Mavelans all right, but it also killed off six or seven hundred folks in Highjorune when their roofs caved in on them." I think it would have gotten mentioned. Maybe the Heralds encouraged everyone to move out so that the node wouldn't be disturbed again? Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 22:19:43 -0500 From: CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Vanyel and the Vales Message-ID: <960115221303_62246904-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> Way back in the dark ages -- er, on Thursay, Jan 11, Mat (in response to Declan's question about why Vanyel met so few of the Hawkbrothers on his visit) asked "also, what's with the voorthayshen (Clan Keep?) There's _nothing_ like that in Winds. In MPawn, it seems like there's one building, with one tree (the king tree) in the middle. It sounds like the whole clan lives in that tree. What's going on here?" What comes to my mind is a difference in climate, which might explain the difference in Vale planning. In the northern Pelagirs, there may be a remnant primitive growth forest that survived through the cataclysm of Ma'ar and Urtho's final confrontation. Something like the Sequoia's of California, which are outsized in the extreme compared to other trees. While in the area down near the plains, there might be giant trees, capable of supporting some dwellings, without supporting an entire community. Or, it might be the other way around, that the trees in the south are larger, and can support ekele that are also dwelling places. In MPawn, on pp. 305-306 of the paperback, ekele are described as single, windowed rooms, and the king tree only supports "some twenty" of them, one for each major branch, and the implication is that they are used primarily for meditation. There are certainly hertasi, for Vanyel is told about them, even that he probably won't see them. What I want to know is why there are no northern Hawkbrothers in Talia's time. Any ideas? Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 22:29:14 -0500 From: CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: changing civilizations Message-ID: <960115221307_62246957-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> Several people have commented on how little the basic structure of the Eastern Empire has changed in almost 24 centuries, with some side notes on how much our own world has changed in the equivalent time. Also Valdemar, which has a civil structure almost unchanged since its founding, and certainly unchanged in the 400 year span between Vanyel's time and Talia's. Couple of points here. The first is that the last two millenia on our world have been very unusual in that change has accelerated. Especially in the last 400 years. If you take a look at Ancient Egypt you can find a civilization whose basic structure stayed pretty much the same for a long, long time. Earlier in the history of mankind you stumble across the hunter-gatherers, who, for the most part, had no interest in change. So centuries of constant change are less common than centuries with little change. The second possibility is that the presence of active, meddling gods on Velgarth is what is retarding the forces of change. After all, once a god/goddess has things the way he/she likes them, why muck with experiments? Or still another possiblity, that the presence of Magic means that those with power have a strong interest in preserving the status quo. Can anyone think of some more? Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 22:30:28 -0500 From: CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: adepts and rank Message-ID: <960115221315_62247061-+AT+-mail06.mail.aol.com> Shadow lover said: "I challenge you, adept to adept, to a battle... Either accept or lose your rank." David R. said: "I never understood why an adept would lose skills built up over a lifetime on the outcome of a battle. I mean if you win or lose, surely you would still possess what you had learned." Kerry made a number of great comments, including: "part of being an adept is sufficient belief in yourself to accept a formalized challenge...refuse that challenge and you just might lose that hard-won control that makes you an adept." I think that's close. I also suspect that different mage schools have differing ideas about what makes an "Adept," and Kethry may have known enough about the school which her opponent came from (Oathbreakers, chapter 9) to know that his school required acceptance of challenges in order for the Adept to continue to tap into the "school's energy supply" like Kethry's White Wind. Remember, these mages know about the existence of vrondi, and probably more other-planar creatures who can detect falsehoods. Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 22:40:51 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: Message-ID: All right, I call upon the dispensers of justice of this list to pass judgement. SHADOW-LOVER CHEATED IN A MAGE-DUEL! And I discussed this with Sundancer, and we both agreed that you CANNOT draw upon the power of your outside allies. Node power yes, supplied power, no. BAD, WICKED SHADOW-LOVER!!!!! :Jaguar, aren't you getting a little caught up in this?: :Oh, don't get your tail in a twist, Lavaan. There's little enough else to do with this snow.: |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | He screams and screams and pounds his head against the wall until | | wailing phantom firetrucks paces across his vision. | | PAIN. PAIN IS ALL HE WANTS: We shall never forget and never forgive. | | AND NEVER EVER FEAR | |FEAR IS FOR THE ENEMY FEAR AND BULLETS | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:59:12 +1100 (EST) From: Julie Vaux To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: civil note posting ... Message-ID: <199601160359.OAA07117-+AT+-metz.une.edu.au> For those who noticed the opening paragraph of the on a more civil note posting seemed disjointed a followup snarl got lost in electronic limbo in which I reminded certain people of the following - This is a LISTSERV - not a chat room not a mud or mush or an online roleplaying game. To the prattish individuals who thought it wasnt rude to label other people boring or humorless ...given the err style if you can call it that of your recent postings I doubt you would notice when I'm being ironic and further I do enjoy Monty Python etc in its PROPER PLACE which is not a ML listserv and to the person who used metaphysics to justify trivia postings - "everything is related" is a logical fallacy in this context in that you are using it to justify an oversimplication and shift of focus away from the real topic and also an abuse of the buddhist mahayana concept of interpenetration - you have heard of Indra's Jewelled Web? havnt you? have you? doubt it ... YOU ARE BEHAVING LIKE BLUES NOT HERALDS ... the courtly brat type blues at that ... is that a valdemaran insult ??? thats enuff for today ... I'm glad to see the larry's artwork thread seems to be reviving ... by the way (blush I cant remember) having seen storm rising for the first time over xmas ... has anyone noticed larry's rendering technique varied a lot - about half the pieces had a smufato i hope that's right italian word a smoky look like certain da vinci paintings ...??? bye for now Majissa ... wondering how a few Blues will feel when they discover her Earth hound Lucky is "playing" with certain items of their clothing especially given what the weather's been like in valdemar lately ... she's going to be in trouble if anyone figures out Lucky is the equivalent for the part of velgarth she comes from of an enhanced bondbeast and not just a trained pet ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 22:01:24 CST From: "Kellie" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the bells, the bells (esmeralda) Message-ID: <2EDA05E57E0-+AT+-athena.valpo.edu> Who are the ladies in Green?? and the Men in Wshite, ii am a newbie of sorts, i am confused Kellie Kellie Myers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 15:13:35 +1100 (EST) From: Julie Vaux To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 320- 2 things Message-ID: <199601160413.PAA08700-+AT+-metz.une.edu.au> Two things - first my thanks to our listowner for the reminder message. My last posting - re:319 was just befrore I got/read ML digest 320. o.k. no.2 - Q body hair as a criteria of masculine beauty? Please remember Valdemaran races are not exact parallels to ours? We probably tend to think of valdemarans as = europeans and the various shiniain and related groups as = amerinds??? but reread carefully - it may be a genetic trait for velgarthians not to be hairy? nyara's fur/body hair is short and fine or was but its sounds to me like many people found it off she had body hair/fur ... maybe velgarth brunettes ... dont need ladies' razors? Also doesnt daren have a beard? Personally I dont mind a neatly trimmed and combed clean beard myself. Julie Vaux ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 16:49:35 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: adepts and rank Message-ID: <9601160549.AA22265-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Cindy wrote: > Shadow lover said: "I challenge you, adept to adept, to a battle... Either > accept or lose your rank." > David R. said: "I never understood why an adept would lose skills built up > over a lifetime on the outcome of a battle. I mean if you win or lose, > surely you would still possess what you had learned." > Kerry made a number of great comments, including: "part of being an adept is > sufficient belief in yourself to accept a formalized challenge...refuse that > challenge and you just might lose that hard-won control that makes you an > adept." > > I think that's close. I also suspect that different mage schools have > differing ideas about what makes an "Adept," and Kethry may have known enough > about the school which her opponent came from (Oathbreakers, chapter 9) to > know that his school required acceptance of challenges in order for the Adept > to continue to tap into the "school's energy supply" like Kethry's White > Wind. Remember, these mages know about the existence of vrondi, and probably > more other-planar creatures who can detect falsehoods. That's a very very good explanation - especially considering that certain types of mage-schools will *not* want their Adepts to back down in front of mages from other schools. I suspect even schools like White-Winds or Blue Mountains would have similar injunctions for the different reason that they *want* their Adepts to stand up for what they are supposed to represent.. On a related note, does anyone know if Kethry can see/tap nodes? I have a sneaking suspicion that Kethry's White Wind is the work of a Greater Adept (yes, they did exist after Urtho according to Firesong in WoFate), that basically created a very powerful node.. (and since it's linked to / sustained by the White-Winds students, they can reach it from anywhere). But that's just speculation. Opinions? Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 01:08:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sci-Fi vs fantasy Message-ID: <01I025SNQGZ691WSXO-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl >Esmeralda Evensbane >(who or why or where or what was "evensbane" - the intuition >bit of my brain keeps saying Tylendel at me - is it right??? Anyhow I think >it goes just right with Esmeralda, so unless anyone can come up with a >good reason why not, I will launch myself on the unsuspecting world as .... >................. Esmeralda Evensbane .................... Could it be from Misty and Andre Norton's Halfblood Chronicles. As in _The Elvenbane_ and _Elvenblood_. You know, Shana. :) Mat accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu "They want to stop the ones who want mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu prosthetic foreheads on their heads. But mtimme47-+AT+-ada.hofstra.edu everybody wants prosthetic foreheads on mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu their real heads." -- They Might Be Giants http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 01:10:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Contacting Firebird from the UK Message-ID: <01I025WNL2E091WSXO-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) > >-They've now got the catalog on the web somewhere (although I seem to >remember that the obvious guess at the URL gets you a completely >different Firebird company :-). The URL is http://www.usa.net/firebird, as given on the inside cover of the paper catalogue. Mat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 01:16:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel and the Vales Message-ID: <01I025YGGS1A91WSXO-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com > >Way back in the dark ages -- er, on Thursay, Jan 11, Mat (in response to >Declan's question about why Vanyel met so few of the Hawkbrothers on his >visit) asked "also, what's with the voorthayshen (Clan Keep?) There's >_nothing_ like that in Winds. In MPawn, it seems like there's one building, >with one tree (the king tree) in the middle. It sounds like the whole clan >lives in that tree. What's going on here?" > > What comes to my mind is a difference in climate, which might explain the >difference in Vale planning. In the northern Pelagirs, there may be a >remnant primitive growth forest that survived through the cataclysm of Ma'ar >and Urtho's final confrontation. Something like the Sequoia's of California, >which are outsized in the extreme compared to other trees. While in the area >down near the plains, there might be giant trees, capable of supporting some >dwellings, without supporting an entire community. > Or, it might be the other way around, that the trees in the south are >larger, and can support ekele that are also dwelling places. In MPawn, on >pp. 305-306 of the paperback, ekele are described as single, windowed rooms, >and the king tree only supports "some twenty" of them, one for each major >branch, and the implication is that they are used primarily for meditation. > There are certainly hertasi, for Vanyel is told about them, even that he >probably won't see them. > That hadn't occured to me. After all, in MPawn, we see the Pelagir HIlls. In Winds, we see the Pelagiris Forrest. It's much more likely for them to live in ekeles in a forrest, rather than in northern hills. > What I want to know is why there are no northern Hawkbrothers in Talia's >time. Any ideas? Actually, there are. The map in WoC lists the locations of all the Tayledras Vales. Teh Vale of the k'Chona is shown to the north-west of Lake Evendim, with k'Vaia on its south-west edge. Mat accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu "They want to stop the ones who want mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu prosthetic foreheads on their heads. But mtimme47-+AT+-ada.hofstra.edu everybody wants prosthetic foreheads on mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu their real heads." -- They Might Be Giants http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 02:25:14 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re- myriad subjects Message-ID: <960116022512_62393364-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-01-15 18:35:16 EST, you write: >> > Actually, you do. Also, I totally agree. Should we have a vote on >> > this list on who Urtho reincarnated to (Van, Firesong or no one?) >> > >> > >> > >> > -Seanna I think you're way off! I'm not shure Urtho has been seen yet! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 02:35:42 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Nitpicking time was Re: changing civilizations Message-ID: <960116023541_62396244-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-01-15 23:54:10 EST, you write: >Also Valdemar, >which has a civil structure almost unchanged since its founding, and >certainly unchanged in the 400 year span between Vanyel's time and Talia's. Excuse me but Vanyel was approx. 750 A.F. and Talia is approx. 1376 A.F. Thats about 600 years!!! Hell of a long time for stuff not to change huh? Also notice approx 1270 for V&H and approx 1376 for By the Sword. Wow Keth was OLD!!! Totally confused, Gemwind K' Sheyna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 02:42:19 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel and the Vales Message-ID: <960116024217_62397760-+AT+-mail06.mail.aol.com> Why no northern Hawkbrothers? Eather there are and we just havent heard or the vale has been moved. Gemwind K' Sheyna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 01:12:37 -0700 From: Todd Kungas To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sacred Ground Message-ID: <9601160812.AA11330-+AT+-wtpprod1.wtp.net> At 16:52 01/15/96 GMT, you wrote: >At 10:17 AM 1/15/96 GMT, Todd Kungas wrote: >> Anyone read "Sacred Ground", I finished it a couple of mounts ago, >>and thought it was very good. >> It made me wonder were to find info on Spirt Animals. But so far I >>haven't found much. Anyone have any ideas. > > A very good book on Spirit Animals is Animal-Speak, by Ted >Andrews. It has the meanings if they show up in your dreams, and >what it means if you identify sttrongly with a certain animal. I >think it's from Llewellyn, but I could be wrong. Another one is >"Bt Oak, Ash And Thorn : Modern Celtic Shamanism", By D.J. Conway. >It has several chapters on shamanic animals, as well as focusing >on a branch of shamanism that was practiced by the ancient Europeans. > > > 'Reesa Raennsyr > Thanks, I'll take a look. To All: Any opinions on the book? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Equine: an484352-+AT+-anon.penet.fi USA O thou, my milk-white pony, whose coat is as the moon-beams of this autumn night, carry me like a bird through the air.... [by Murasaki Shikabu (974-1031)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 09:33:03 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Larry Dixon's art Message-ID: <9601160833.AA11396-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> JAGUAR wrote (Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 03:39:52 GMT): >that a lot of the men (and women, too) are a bit the same. I read a large >those artists don't draw uniform men and women. Although that could just >be the personalities I've come to know and love/hate. > And if we're going into good-looking men...the first guy I ever >remember agonizing over was David Bowie (whose face is now >permanently stuck in my head), and does anyone else think that picture of >Darkwind (w/Firesong) in SW looks like David Bowie? It's just that >picture too, which is disturbing, since I don't think Darkwind has any >right looking like David Bowie... I thought some more about this yesterday, and decided that another problem I have is that they are too young - I mean Elspeth/Skif/Darkwind are all late 20's/early 30's, but I think that they look around 20 or so in the pictures. ML seems to have problems with her ages generally I think, as I said way back (ooh, late December at least, in the days when I was a new newbie) the time lines for Arrows/By The Sword don't really tie up, and Elspeth is written of as late teens (character wise I think) in Winds 1, whereas she's actually late 20's (all that talk of needing to make a political marriage - well they'd better get on with it, her useful child-bearing years are passing her by!). I agree with the Bowie connection - I think it's the late 70's/early 80's punk hairdo's, along with the ethereal bone structure. And no, Darkwind is _not_ a Bowie type at all - at least not in my head! Esmeralda Evensbane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 09:54:19 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the bells, the bells (esmeralda) Message-ID: <9601160854.AA11405-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> >Who are the ladies in Green?? and the Men in Wshite, ii am a newbie >of sorts, i am confused >Kellie Aaaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh. NoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoooo, puleeeeeeeeeeeeeese - not again! Try the archives on: http://ftp.herald.co.uk/pub/lists/lackey-archives for the entire saga. Herald Chonni Brightwolf explained TMIW on Mon, 8 Jan 1996 01:20:01 GMT, and I think TLIG (pat. pending) appeared for the first time yesterday Mon, 15 Jan 1996 23:41:10 GMT. They were fun while they lasted, but I support the 'stop while you're ahead' school of thought - my mail wastebasket (emptied Friday evening) already has 255 mails in it, mostly from stuff that arrived over the weekend. I don't have the time to handle that sort of load on a regular basis. Seeing as the header "the bells, the bells (esmeralda)" was from me, and it's been used to death, I would like to take it upon myself to formally kill this subject header and lay it gently to rest in the Archives. Esmeralda Evensbane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 10:15:43 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tarma/Keth/Waarl Message-ID: <9601160915.AA11422-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> Stacey wrote: >We know that warrl died with tarma. Weren't they soul-bonded or >something like that? I would like to know what happened to his soul >now that he is dead. Did he become a Leshya Kyree or did he become >reincarnated? I was thinking that since Tarma was now a 'spirit >teacher' warrl would be with her since they were soul-bonded, I >think. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. What happened to >Kethry also puzzles me because she and Tarma also had some type of >bond courtesy of the Goddess and I can't see Kethry living without >Tarma or them being separated for that matter. Any thoughts? Why have we slipped into assuming that everyone comes back as either a leshya'e (EE showing off her Shin'a'in knowledge - that's "a spirit; not a vengeful, earth-bound ghost, but a helpful spirit" according to the incredibly and stunningly useful "Guide to Shin'a'in" I posted on Jan 9) - where was I - aah yes, or re-incarnated as someone else. Have we ever come across leshya'e anything else other that the Kal'enedral and Vanyel/Stefan/Yfandes (yeah yeah I know, AND the Firecats AND the Companions (probably), .... AND Need) OK, OK, maybe my point is unmaking itself, but maybe Keth is just dead (this parrot is d ..... nah maybe I won't!) altho' Adepts can go on for 200 years or so can't they? I go along with the "one for one and all for one" approach - although it could be a bit disconcerting for anyone else around when the first one dies, "I'm so sorry she's dea ...." THUMP, THUMP "um,.... I'm so sorry they're all dead" - only kidding! The "incredibly and stunningly useful "Guide to Shin'a'in" needs some more work I reckon - additions gratefully received, or pointers to the definitive and complete version that some other helpful person has already done. slan leat Esmeralda Evensbane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 11:58:41 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Adepts & nodes (was re: mating gryphons) Message-ID: <9261F86B9F-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Whiteraven wrote: > In the Winds books, we learn that Treyvan (and Hydona?) are Master > level. However, they use node magic, something otherwise reserved for > Adepts. At the same time, they are not bleached by the magic, as the humans > are. Even Firesong's firebird and dyheli are not immune to these effects. So, > what's up? Gryphons are innately magical, but this, I think, is not > sufficient to let them bend the rules so. I don't think the gryphons are innately magical, anymore that the Tayledras are (but of course, the Goddess gave the latter an inborn trace of mage-gift). I still think they should bleach - and there is proof of bleached gryphons :). I think Misty has been somewhat inconsistent about the way the magic works. I've been checking into what exactly is the difference between Masters and Adepts and come up with the following: -Masters can't use node power. However, there is a major exception, that being the Tayledras. Any Hawkbrother, of whatever mage rank, can use nodes. Of outsiders, only the powerful Adepts can. (this from the end of MPawn, Moondance talking to Vanyel) Actually, the exact quote is closer to "I suspect that of your mages only those you call Adept-class can do it well" - implying that lower- level mages CAN use nodes, only not very well. I think it was also implied (or said straight out) that outsiders couldn't even _see_ nodes, nor could they use ley-lines. I'm not totally sure, though. Someone might check it out... Later Misty has laid down the rules so that only Adepts (any Adepts) can use the nodes; anyone of lesser rank gets badly burned. Also, anyone can see the ley-lines and the nodes, even if they can't use them. -There are a number of spells that only Adepts can use. (For that matter, only high-powered mages are good at using spells at all, as Lendel says). These Adept-only spells include Gates. That's right, it's from somewhere in LHM (MPromise perhaps?). And how that fits in with the fact that Ancar (who didn't even have Adept potential, let alone the rank) made a perfectly successful Gate, I have no idea. Also, Adepts have a spell that makes magic invisible to mage-sight too. (Kethry in Oathbreakers, where she uses it to mask their disguise spell from the court mages) I have this feeling there were more Adept-only spells but I can't remember...I guess that's long enough for a rant anyway...:) -Seanna ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 321 *********************************