MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 325 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Tarma/Keth/Warrl by CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com 2) re: Bardic Voices vs. Valdemar by CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com 3) re: nitpicking time was re: changing civilizations by CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com 4) re: men/masculinity/LDixon by CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com 5) Re: Reincarnation by "David Ramsden" 6) Permanant Gates by "David Ramsden" 7) Re: re- myriad subjects by "David Ramsden" 8) Re: hullo :) by "David Ramsden" 9) Re: Larry Dixon's art by Mary Temple 10) re: nitpicking time was re: changing civilizations by c-lofhel-+AT+-jmk.su.se (torch) 11) Re: magic as a stabilising factor by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 12) Re: Adepts & nodes (was re: mating gryphons) by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 13) Re: Adepts & nodes (was re: mating gryphons) by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 14) Re: Too Much Misty & Queens Own (long) by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 15) Re: Reincarnation by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 16) Re: Larry Dixon's art by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 17) Re: New Thread: Charachters by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 18) Re: Gates by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 19) Re: hullo :) by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 20) Re: Too Much Misty & Queens Own by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 21) Re: changing civilizations & Urtho reborn by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 22) Re: changing civilizations & Urtho reborn by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 23) Re: Coconuts? by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 24) Re: nitpicking time was re: changing civilizations by Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com 25) Re: Tarma/Keth/Warrl by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 26) re: nitpicking time by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 27) Re: Larry Dixon's art by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 28) Re: re- myriad subjects by STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 29) Re: hullo :) by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 30) Re: Too Much Misty & Queens Own by Tammy Harris 31) Re: Larry Dixon's art by Rosario Holsen-Baker 32) re: nitpicking time was re: changing civilizations by Catherine Osborne ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 22:21:48 -0500 From: CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tarma/Keth/Warrl Message-ID: <960116222142_44110532-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> There've been a lot of good comments on this, but suffice it to say that we've pretty much agreed that Tarma is one of the spirit Sword-Sworn who Elspeth sees in Chapter 23 of WoC. Most people seem to think that Warrl would have died at the same time she did, as he mentioned once that he'd like to go with her when the time comes. There's no consensus about Kethry. (my turn! :->) I think that Keth is dead by the time of WoFate. If she were still alive then Kero would almost certainly have sent Elspeth to her. (If not for training, then at least for evaluation.) In fact, I suspect that she died very soon after she gave up Need to Kerowyn. After a century of having a sword with a healing spell deal with most of your worst hurts, it would be something of a shock to the system to suddenly go without it on a regular basis. Kero had to go through the same thing, when she gave the sword to Elspeth, but Kero was several decades younger, and had not bonded to Need as tightly as Kethry did. I think Kethry used magic to keep going until she was sure that Kero's brother was safe from greedy in-laws, and then let herself "go." (Perhaps she and Tarma travelled back to the Plains one last time. I think Tarma would have liked that.) I doubt Tarma outlived Kethry by much. But we do know that Warrl was around for at least long enough to travel back to his kyree clan and tell tales. Rris, in WoFury, chapter 11, p. 212 in the hardback, knows all about Kero's training with Tarma and is delighted to meet her. Want another monkey wrench? In WoC, Tarma addresses Elspeth as "little sister-in-power". Tarma was no mage. What if that particular Spirit Swordsworn was both Tarma _and_ Kethry, bound together as one by their goddess-blessed bond? Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 22:21:51 -0500 From: CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Bardic Voices vs. Valdemar Message-ID: <960116222148_44110596-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> Kaatje asked: "Does anyone out there prefer the Bardic Voices books to the Velgarth ones?" I prefer _some_ of the Bardic Voices books to _some_ of the Velgarth books. Actually, there are books where I reread certain chapters with no guilt at all about skipping others. _The Eagle and the Nightingales_ (side note, to Owen, I took "Eagle" to refer to the High King, and "Nightingales" to refer to the musicians) is good, because Misty is having fun with the main characters and the town setup. _The Lark and the Wren_ is great -- right up until it starts suffering from what I call "The Secret Garden" syndrome. (i.e. the author was telling a great story about a strong female character until she introduced the male lead, and then all of a sudden the strong female character gets shoved into the background.) We spend nearly 274 pages in Rune's head, following her as the close-focus character and suddenly, with nothing more than a spaced line, we're in Talaysen's head! And later, when the gypsies decide to teach somebody about magic...do they teach the one who figured it out? nooo...they teach the MAN.... rant rant rant growl growl.... sorry, I've been wanting to complain about that to someone who understands what I'm talking about for a while and it sort of slipped out. When I read _Jinx High_ and Di started lecturing the kids about swapping viewpoint (chapter 6, p.113 in pb.) I just about threw the book across the room, because I had already read _The Lark and the Wren_.... Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 22:21:58 -0500 From: CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Cc: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com Subject: re: nitpicking time was re: changing civilizations Message-ID: <960116222156_44110698-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> You're right. It has been 600 years from Vanyel's time to Talia's. Can't remember where I picked up the 400 year time frame but it wasn't the timeline. I will now go and write "check the original source" on the board 100 times. Uh, according to the timeline, there are 48 years from Elspeth to Randale's reigns, and MPawn is the only one set in the earlier one. Funny, I never imagine Vanyel as being in his early sixties when he fights his last battle... okay okay, I'll behave! Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 22:49:00 -0500 From: CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: men/masculinity/LDixon Message-ID: <960116222152_44110656-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> I never know what I'm going to like. I get surprised all the time when I meet/see a guy with some quality I always thought of as yucky and my lizard-brain says "oh, yeah!" On Larry Dixon. I tend to like the first drawing he does of someone and then be dissatisfied with the rest. (I think that the portrait of Amberdrake at the beginning of Black Gryphon looks a little like Jean-Luc Picard with hair. Just a side note. On, Monday 15 (in Australia, at least), jvaux said something about "those ugly drawings for the gay market" and Kerry objected to the "implicit stereotyping". Alas, what is made for the "market" and what is produced by the "community" very seldom have anything to do with each other. (There's a company here which is trying to pawn off baked potato chips by saying they let you "eat like one of the boys while looking like one of the girls." Icccchhhhh! Talk about a direct miss!) Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 02:44:05 +0000 From: "David Ramsden" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Reincarnation Message-ID: <199601161803.SAA19655-+AT+-gate.dungeon.com> I think you lot have a major hang up on this reincarnation stuff. Must everybody come back. Why does anyone beleive in the Haven's if this was true. Have you considerted that new characters may be just that. New some soul never seen before. David Ramsden - Avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com ---------------------------------------- Then I'd rather have hope - than nothing at all. - Illyana in X-men Omega ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 02:44:05 +0000 From: "David Ramsden" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Permanant Gates Message-ID: <199601161803.SAA19665-+AT+-gate.dungeon.com> Does anyone have any theories on how permanant gates are made? David Ramsden - Avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com ---------------------------------------- Then I'd rather have hope - than nothing at all. - Illyana in X-men Omega ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 02:44:05 +0000 From: "David Ramsden" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re- myriad subjects Message-ID: <199601161803.SAA19660-+AT+-gate.dungeon.com> > In a message dated 96-01-15 18:35:16 EST, you write: > > >> > Actually, you do. Also, I totally agree. Should we have a vote > >> > on this list on who Urtho reincarnated to (Van, Firesong or no > >> > one?) > >> > > >> > > >> > -Seanna > > I think you're way off! I'm not shure Urtho has been seen yet! > What makes you so sure he won't come back as a simple farmer. Sort of karmic retirement. Or have you considered Darkwind as a possible candidate. Who said he had to come backas a male. He could be Talia for all we know. Personally I reserve judgement David Ramsden - Avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com ---------------------------------------- Then I'd rather have hope - than nothing at all. - Illyana in X-men Omega ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 02:44:04 +0000 From: "David Ramsden" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: hullo :) Message-ID: <199601161803.SAA19673-+AT+-gate.dungeon.com> > Hullo Hullo Hullo to everyone! > Just thought I'd poke my head up and wavie to everyone as i am a > newbie > *gasp*. :) I'll prolly stay pretty quiet til I pick up the threads, > but you'll prolly hear from me soon enuff. Just out of curiosity, > any Queen's Own members out there? *peers atta her terminal* And a > big huge huggly hello to my very favorite Martian Vanyel (saw yer > addy hunney! HIIIIII!) OKee, enuff babble for now....bya! > > lurve, > Meri > Hi sweetling. Bout time you got on this list. I told you about it months ago. OMLC -Bye the way this martian thing refers to a talker called MBA4 , which is at jumper.mcc.ac.uk 3214, which is literally full of misty fans. It's a good place to go if ya wanna talk misty. Yfandes here is one of the admin David Ramsden - Avalon-+AT+-post.dungeon.com ---------------------------------------- Then I'd rather have hope - than nothing at all. - Illyana in X-men Omega ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 23:54:14 -0600 (CST) From: Mary Temple To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Larry Dixon's art Message-ID: <199601170554.XAA13845-+AT+-natashya.eden.com> At 08:20 PM 01/16/96 GMT, you wrote: >I have to side with the majority on this one. While I thought that >some of Larry's pictures of the gryphons were beautiful, his people all >tended to look alike, and didn't have nearly enough personality. Did >anyone else have a problem with his firecat (I forget which book, but >I think it was SW)? It looked like a beautiful Persian cat, with no >markings at all. As someone said, since he helped write the books, he >can make the characters look however he wants. Still, I'd rather he >attempted to match the description in the text. Unlike Jody (Jodi?) >Lee, he *has* read the manuscript in advance. I would think he would >at least try to be consistent. Well, enough ranting. > Did I EVER have a problem with his firecat!! The description was of a siamese...and he draws a persian!! Anyone who knows anything about cats knows there's a BIG difference! Amazing, isn't it? That Jodi Lee can come closer to capturing the "spirit" of a thing than can the author's husband. :) /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Mary Temple I am the cat who walks by Himself, NoxCat and all places are alike to me. Catriona Rowley - Rudyard Kipling ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:47:45 +0100 From: c-lofhel-+AT+-jmk.su.se (torch) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: nitpicking time was re: changing civilizations Message-ID: >You're right. It has been 600 years from Vanyel's time to Talia's. Can't >remember where I picked up the 400 year time frame but it wasn't the >timeline. I will now go and write "check the original source" on the board >100 times. > >Uh, according to the timeline, there are 48 years from Elspeth to Randale's >reigns, and MPawn is the only one set in the earlier one. Funny, I never >imagine Vanyel as being in his early sixties when he fights his last >battle... Didn't you see the part about his grey hairs and character lines? I guess monarchs' reigns are dated from accession, and Elspeth ruled for a long time (Randale was her grandson, after all). torch ** c-lofhel-+AT+-jmk.su.se Alone and abandoned, you see pigs wallowing in mud and demons riding in carts. (I Ching) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 09:48:51 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: magic as a stabilising factor Message-ID: <9601170848.AA12596-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> Jerry wrote: >I can certainly see it acting to slow down the rate of change, for >several reasons: >- - If there's a magical way of doing something available, it reduces the >pressure for developing a technological way of doing it. >- - Potential technologists may end up as mages instead. >- - Mages may block/discourage rival technological methods. Hold on there a moment - I thought Valdemar had no magic for 500 or so years - when Van cops it, and the ordinary mortals think the Circle are hiding the Herald Mages somewhere for their own nefarious purposes, he arranges for people to forget about magic. This is what Elspeth investigates at the beginning of WoF - there was only mind magic in Valdemar - none of the other pizzang, abracadabra, hey wow sort of stuff - so OK maybe no telecommunication technology (altho' they're interested in Hardorns set-up (AFall)). Doesn't Karel (sp???? SW young Karseite) observe the "new" indoor toilet, grateful that he didn't have to go outside. Well good grief, sanitary arrangments are hardly empire or god threatening are they?! And why, brain makes one of it's lightening sideways lurches, at the end of WoF when Elspeth starts lobbing mage bolts (or something) at the whatevertheyares that are after her and Skif do Skif _and_her_companion_ look at her in amazement - surely a Grove-born-specially-for-the-first-mage-in-ages companion would have known what was happening? Also, (lurching back to the subject in hand ..) on the development tack - in SW whossisnames daughter - Natolie (???) is a student mathematican/statistician/ engineer involved with what sounds like a well developed school/college, claiming to be into engines and the like. Someone in another posting (Equine I think - lemme see) >That may be true, but it also could have been that no asked the right >questions. >In SR they were just starting to work with a basic steam engine to heat the >castle, and to provide power. Technology can't happen if the right questions >arn't asked to the right person. >Equine: an484352-+AT+-anon.penet.fi touched on this - well Natolie's colleagues/teachers would suggest that there _was_ an established forum for the asking and developing of questions. The ordinary folk had no magic - anyone with any gift in Valdemar would have been chosen (probably - it's my opinion only) or outside Valdemar, scooped up by one of the mage schools/church/Adept - and every generation has it's questioners and thinkers, and from what we know of Hardorn and Valdemar, it sounds as if the oprdinary people pretty much get on with their lives (until a big badie comes along that is). Maybe the empire was different - they sound totally dependent on magic for running the place. Enough rambling, work beckons .... tot ziens Esmeralda Evensbane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 04:20:49 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Adepts & nodes (was re: mating gryphons) Message-ID: <960117042049_119054355-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-01-16 08:27:15 EST, you write: >I don't think the gryphons are innately magical, anymore that the >Tayledras are (but of course, the Goddess gave the latter an inborn >trace of mage-gift). (Snip, Snip. He he he! The Black and Decker P.... er oops) >-Masters can't use node power. However, there is a major exception, >that being the Tayledras. Any Hawkbrother, of whatever mage rank, can >use nodes. Hello!?!?!?! Does anyone rember that the Griffons are members of a clan? Shaking his head, Gemwind K' Sheyna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 04:24:02 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Adepts & nodes (was re: mating gryphons) Message-ID: <960117042400_119055391-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-01-16 08:27:15 EST, you write: >these Adept-only spells include Gates. That's right, it's from >somewhere in LHM (MPromise perhaps?). And how that fits in with the >fact that Ancar (who didn't even have Adept potential, let alone the >rank) made a perfectly successful Gate, I have no idea. I also ask you to rember that Ancar almost died while making the gate and that it was an ACCIDENT that he recovered Falconsbane from in-between. Still trying to rember last night, Dalisair Gemwind ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 04:38:09 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Too Much Misty & Queens Own (long) Message-ID: <960117043809_119060155-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-01-16 09:03:29 EST, you write: >> > Also, we have laws that guarantee us immunity of the body. The >> > requirements for the police right to body-search are strict. How >> > much more sacrosanct should our minds be? The Herald can't just >> > go around raping away people's thoughts. >> Ooh! You just hit a really sore spot with me. Remember that all mind speaking Heralds have an aversion to just jaunting into someones mind at will. >> From what I can remember, this doesn't change - subjection to truth >> spell is either voluntary (as in the case of the innocent trader accused >> of murder) or after other evidence suggests a likely involvement As in the case of the insane girl (when Kris forces Talia to cast the 2nd stage truth spell) And in general most problems are black and white. The ones that arent are handled differently, with common sense. Look what happened in the land dispute. Talia and Kris shot "blessed" arrows. I'm shure that there wasn't a law that mandated that!!! Dalisair K' Sheyna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 04:40:09 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Reincarnation Message-ID: <960117044007_119060828-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-01-16 09:10:22 EST, you write: >Hmm, well, it's only a problem if you have a hangup about linear time - >if time isn't a factor when you're dead, why should you have to reincarnate >in a later time? why not an earlier one? > >That would let you be two people in the same (world) time at different (soul) >times. > > Great. Now I have to worry about falling in love with myself. (SIGH) Gemwind K' Sheyna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 04:45:11 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Larry Dixon's art Message-ID: <960117044510_119062595-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-01-16 15:18:46 EST, you write: >(The Ladies in Green have sent word that they would *love* to team up >with the Cat People!!) > > Well then The Ones In Black will join with TMIW just to make it fair. (Like it ever could be, you women can always beat us men.) Accepting applications for membership, Dalisair Gemwind ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 04:47:07 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: New Thread: Charachters Message-ID: <960117044707_119063260-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-01-16 16:12:41 EST, you write: >Where can I send to for a Firebird catalog? And how much are they? I'd >really like to know. > -Declan > -aka Mannaheim > > > Call them at 1-800-752-0494 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 04:50:11 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gates Message-ID: <960117045006_119064228-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-01-16 18:20:07 EST, you write: >But that is where there is a difference. Savil, Vanyel, and Elspeth >created gates, but they couldn't create permanent gates. If this was >from lack of knowledge or because they couldn't, I don't know. > >Declan Both I would think. IMO Vanyel might have been able to if he had the knowledge, but with his sensitivity to gate energys it probably would have killed him. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 04:55:57 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: hullo :) Message-ID: <960117045555_119066161-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> 'ow do you join Queens own? And 'ow do ye become a 'erald? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 04:58:01 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Too Much Misty & Queens Own Message-ID: <960117045800_119066770-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-01-17 01:03:07 EST, you write: >Ah. But what did the Vrondi get in exchange for performing the duties of >the Truth Spell before Vanyel made the heartstone in Haven? > -Declan > > A pat on the metaphysical head? Actually they are just really curious and I'm shure not too bright. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 05:00:01 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: changing civilizations & Urtho reborn Message-ID: <960117045959_119067410-+AT+-mail06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-01-17 01:07:42 EST, you write: >Van started off sullen, and >developed into a caring adult who had a deep commitment to duty and his >friends. He would have blasted Ma'ar. ROFLMAO Too true!!!!! Urtho was a merry old soul. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 05:02:08 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: changing civilizations & Urtho reborn Message-ID: <960117050206_119068099-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-01-17 01:07:42 EST, you write: >Yup, I think that if Urtho >were reincarnated, it would be as An'desha. Think of it as a great twist >in the plot; the one person Ma'ar chooses to possess is actually Urtho >reborn; it makes the fact that An'desha conquers the insane memories all >the more precious. Glad to know I wasn't the only one who thought this. Printing that up to wave in peoples faces, Gemwind K' Sheyna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 05:08:19 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Coconuts? Message-ID: <960117050819_119069865-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-01-17 01:44:21 EST, you write: > Ooo! If you have it on your computer, can I have one >too? Puh-lease? You can even send it by swallow, but it has to >be European! > > > Thanks in advance, > > Herald Mareesa Nope the European ones are too small to carry the script. I also want a copy though. Crying because he still hasn't been Chosen, Dalisair ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 05:21:46 -0500 From: Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: nitpicking time was re: changing civilizations Message-ID: <960117052144_119072897-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-01-17 04:16:37 EST, you write: >You're right. It has been 600 years from Vanyel's time to Talia's. Can't >remember where I picked up the 400 year time frame but it wasn't the >timeline. I will now go and write "check the original source" on the board >100 times. > >Uh, according to the timeline, there are 48 years from Elspeth to Randale's >reigns, and MPawn is the only one set in the earlier one. Funny, I never >imagine Vanyel as being in his early sixties when he fights his last >battle... > >okay okay, I'll behave! > >Yoicks! and Away! > >Cindy I reaally like the fact that I have a female telling me I have something right! Thanks Cindy!!! By the way what do you look like and are you single? Laughing, Dalisair Gemwind ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 11:28:59 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tarma/Keth/Warrl Message-ID: <9601171029.AA12826-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> Cindy said: >After a century of having a >sword with a healing spell deal with most of your worst hurts, it would be >something of a shock to the system to suddenly go without it on a regular >basis. Kero had to go through the same thing, when she gave the sword to >Elspeth, but Kero was several decades younger, and had not bonded to Need as >tightly as Kethry did. But think back to BTS - there's the tale of how Need was lost on a river crossing, and Kero, nearly unconscious from "a strained sould bond" (awful paraphrasing) had to make them understand and find Need, and yet when she gave Need to Eslpeth, one assumes that she didn't crash to the ground in torment as Elspeth rode away - I kinda assumed that once Need has 'chosen' her new carrier and is handed over, the soul bond is severed fairly painlessly. I agree that the loss of healing would be a shock to the system, especially if one is in ones's autumn years. >I think Kethry used magic to keep going until she was >sure that Kero's brother was safe from greedy in-laws, and then let herself >"go." I didn't get an impression of great age from the beginning of BTS - after all Tarma is able to effectivly teach Kero and Darren, including fighting skills so she can't be in her dotage yet. Lemme see, I just happen to have a copy of the time lines with me today ................................. 1315 Roald's reign starts - so Tarma is, what, 30ish at a guess 1376 Selenay's reign starts - Tarma is 90'ish - wow I hope I can best teenagers at mortal combat when I'm 90! So by the time of Storm - Elspeth is 30'ish and she was born when Selenay was Queen, so, at a guess, Storm starts between 1406 and 1416 - and if Keth and Tarma were of an age, Keth would have been 120 or so - still young(ish) for an Adept - I stick with my 'dead and done with' theory - there's no evidence of wholesale reincarnation in the books (is there???) However, as has been said before, ML's timelines are appalling - they don't add up. >Want another monkey wrench? In WoC, Tarma addresses Elspeth as "little >sister-in-power". Tarma was no mage. What if that particular Spirit >Swordsworn was both Tarma _and_ >Kethry, bound together as one by their goddess-blessed bond? I took that to mean that Tarma now had power applenty seeing as how she was meant to be dead! Tot ziens Esmeralda Evensbane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 11:41:07 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: nitpicking time Message-ID: <9601171041.AA12834-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> Cindy wrote: >Uh, according to the timeline, there are 48 years from Elspeth to Randale's >reigns, and MPawn is the only one set in the earlier one. Funny, I never >imagine Vanyel as being in his early sixties when he fights his last >battle... Isn't he meant to be 17 years older that he was when 'Lendel died (going along with the Hawkbrothers reincarnation theory - they said something about the dates being about right), which makes him 34 or so, eeeeerrrrrrmmmmmm, gottit!!!!! (<- 5!) Van doesn't have to date from the beginning of Elspeth's reign does he - we know Randale became king sometime before MPromise, as Van is reminising about when the heir before Randale died and Ran got the job and couldn't marry Sharvi etc etc etc, and we aren't given an end date of Randale's reign. So, in this rare instance, I reckon ML's timelines work - and hey, Van can't be 60's - not with an 18 year old lover - that's taking cradle snatching beyond the limits (no flame no flame no flame - I'm all for no ageism - there's 14 years between my man and me, but 40 plus - nah, I don't think so). Tot ziens Esmeralda Evensbane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 11:52:10 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Larry Dixon's art Message-ID: <9601171052.AA12842-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> Mary Temple/NoxCat/Catriona Rowley (which do I use???) wrote: >Did I EVER have a problem with his firecat!! The description was of a >siamese...and he draws a persian!! Anyone who knows anything about cats >knows there's a BIG difference! Amazing, isn't it? That Jodi Lee can come >closer to capturing the "spirit" of a thing than can the author's husband. :) Hear hear. The cover cat was better, although I see aaaaaaaaaaaargh, my brain today ......... thingy, wossisname, 'im-over-there, ..... Altra (yes! yes!! yes!!! - no that was not a Meg Ryan, just my brain coming up trumps) as a seal point - altho' I'm biased in their favour having spent my formative years being raised by my parents and a seal-point of much character. The persian of LD's was a fine drawing as I recall, but Altra???? Tot ziens Esmeralda Evensbane ****************************************************************************** * Everyone's heard of Erwin Schrodinger's famous thought experiment. You put * * a cat in a box with a bottle of poison, which many people would suggest is * * about as far as you need to go. * * (Terry Pratchett, The Unadulterated Cat) * ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 11:55:20 GMT From: STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re- myriad subjects Message-ID: <76A828702F-+AT+-EXCALIBUR.MMU.AC.UK> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 01:36:43 GMT Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk From: "Patrick S. Waterlander" To: 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: re- myriad subjects Yes! Lets. I agree. I shall cast the first vote. I think Urtho was reincarnated as both Vanyel AND Firesong. Anyone else? -Declan How could he have been both Van and Firesong. Vanyel's spirit is still in Sorrows. That would mean that he met himself when Van redirected the gate. Does that seem Spooky to anyone else? I see you shiver in antici....pation Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 14:40:18 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: hullo :) Message-ID: <9601171340.AA12982-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> > 'ow do you join Queens own? And 'ow do ye become a 'erald? >From http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/ism/lackey/fan-groups/queens_own Contact Address Queen's Own P.O. Box 132 Shiloh, NJ 08353 The subscription price is $8.00 per year (US $) or $8 in US postage stamps. This is payable in one lump sum or in two installments of $4.00. Esmeralda Evensbane (What do you do if you aren't in the States?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:04:01 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Too Much Misty & Queens Own Message-ID: <3C0DD357BA6-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> On Tues, Jan 16, Seanna wrote: > Moreover, Heralds don't have the training for this! They are trained > for an approximation of five years. > Even assuming that Valdemar's laws > are a lot simpler than ours (which isn't necessarily all that good an > assumption) the Heralds can't possibly know enough to qualify as > judges. > No, no. I just can't agree here. The Heralds can't be an appeal > court. What would the point be? They don't know the laws. Mostly, at > least in Finland, it's the _juridically_ unclear cases that are solved > by the highest court. I think Heralds would be good at helping the > courts ascertain the (witnesses' subjective) truth, but not as judges. I'm sorry to disagree with you, Seanna, but I do. You don't have to like it, but Misty clearly says that the Heralds can act as judges. In AotQ, during Talia's oh-so-informative Orientation class, it says: Davan: "They dispense the Queen's justice" Teren: "Good enough answer, as far as it goes, but how do they do that?" Davan: "Uh, they ride circuit in their assigned areas, going through all the towns and villages, they deliver the new laws of the Kingdom and report on the acts of the Council and Queen. They see that the people understand the laws and act as judges, and sometimes lawgivers when something comes up that isn't covered in Kingdom law or by local custom." (AotQ, p. 115, US paperback edition). Acting as judges is not their primary function, and of course, they're not the primary judges, but they can and do function as such, when it's necessary. Well, just my thoughts. Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:09:39 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Larry Dixon's art Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 1996 Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 96-01-16 15:18:46 EST, you write: > > >(The Ladies in Green have sent word that they would *love* to team up > >with the Cat People!!) > > > > > > Well then The Ones In Black will join with TMIW just to make it fair. (Like > it ever could be, you women can always beat us men.) > > Accepting applications for membership, > Dalisair Gemwind Especially when the women are cats, too. >:) Alright, Misty content. The vrondi got, in exchange for their services, access to the Haven Heartstone. It's all detailed in the description of the Web setting-up in MPrice; Savil or Vanyel dangles a line of mage-energy out and waits for the vrondi. When enough of them get there, they hold it just out of reach and say, If you do such-and-such, you get all this tasty mage-energy. I guess that's what the vrondi feed on, or something. Speculations? |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | He screams and screams and pounds his head against the wall until | | wailing phantom firetrucks paces across his vision. | | PAIN. PAIN IS ALL HE WANTS: We shall never forget and never forgive. | | AND NEVER EVER FEAR | |FEAR IS FOR THE ENEMY FEAR AND BULLETS | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:15:21 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: nitpicking time was re: changing civilizations Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 1996, torch wrote: > >You're right. It has been 600 years from Vanyel's time to Talia's. Can't > >remember where I picked up the 400 year time frame but it wasn't the > >timeline. I will now go and write "check the original source" on the board > >100 times. > > > >Uh, according to the timeline, there are 48 years from Elspeth to Randale's > >reigns, and MPawn is the only one set in the earlier one. Funny, I never > >imagine Vanyel as being in his early sixties when he fights his last > >battle... Personally, I think the writer of the timeline screwed up. Stefen was seventeen when he met Vanyel. Van was not quite twice as old, which makes him in his early thirties. They had been together for not more than two years and probably less when Van died. I\/ Catherine Osborne "After great pain, I\/ Sundancer a formal feeling comes." I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu --Emily Dickinson I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 325 *********************************