MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 342 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Kethry in Rethwellan by McCaffrey's White Dragon 2) LoveBond vs. LifeBond by "Starhawk" 3) Re: Other races by "Patrick S. Waterlander" 4) Re: T. Huff by "Winterwind" 5) Re: 1-2-3-4, I declare Mage War by Joshua Jones 6) First Move... re: Jaguar Magewar by Joshua Jones 7) Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: by Joshua Jones 8) Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds by Rosario Holsen-Baker 9) Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds by TSALE-+AT+-ups.edu 10) Bard names... by "Winterwind" 11) Re: Kethry in Rethwellan by Tammy Harris 12) Re: Neave by Ashke 13) Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds by jr9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu 14) Re: The Names Issue by Mat Timmerman 15) Re: Dead? by Mat Timmerman 16) Re: Non-Human Heralds by Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 17) Re: Companions (was Re: Other Races) by Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 18) Re: Tanya Huff (was: Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines by Mat Timmerman 19) An entirely BRAND NEW thread... by "Starhawk" 20) Symbs & life-bond differences. Was Re: bleaching etc by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 21) Re: Shadow Stalker (was Re: The Names Issue) by Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 22) Re: The Names Issue by Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 23) Re: One Sided Bonds by Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 24) Re: Lifebonds vs. Lovebonds. by Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 25) Re: Other races by Aquila111-+AT+-aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:07:23 -0800 (PST) From: McCaffrey's White Dragon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kethry in Rethwellan Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Birgit Hanel wrote: > On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Patrick S. Waterlander wrote: > > > Going back to the Companion=reincarnated herald bit, maybe Roald=Rolan? > > > > Declan > > > My impression was that *reincarnated* Heralds appear as those Companions > who were born in Valdemar; since Rolan is a grove-born, I think that he > is indeed some spirit that manifested in Companion-shape and not a reborn H. > As a counterexample take Sayvil/Savil (did I get the names mixed up? I > was referring to Vanyel's aunt resp. Kero's Companion). IMO it was pretty > clear that Misty made that connection. > Blessings > Birgit* > Didn't the mage who took over Bolthaven (Quentin, I believe?) note, upon first seeing Elspeth ride in, that she was riding some sort of magical-spirit-guardian thing or something? ___________________ -==UDIC==- ________________ |\__________________\ McCaffrey's White Dragon |\________________\ ||Why is he talking | || | || to that | a.k.a. || Don't ask. | || White Coconut? | Jake Gipple \|________________| \|__________________| (360)-887-4779 LEMUR! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:28:36 EST5EDT From: "Starhawk" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: LoveBond vs. LifeBond Message-ID: <2885D8F6E41-+AT+-apps.sbu.edu> OK, folks, I've read all the posts on this subject thus far, and I think I'm ready to say something. Let me first say that I have been involved with the closest thing this world has to a LifeBond. I broke it off. I severed the whatever-it-was, wished him well, and sent him on his way. I loved him more than life itself, and there were days I thought I'd just shrivel up from the pain of being separated (I attend school on one end of NY, he went to school on the other). We had those really annoying half-conversations, where we didn't even have to finish sentences, and we frequently finished each others'. But, I felt too suffocated and penned in. I was the "stable" one in a stable/instable relationship, and it was too much. I got sick of always having to be the strong one, and I was heartily sick of bailing my partner out of black depression time after time. I am now involved in a LoveBond type of deal, and I'm much happier. Yeah, maybe I don't know what's going on in his head all the time (OK, hardly ever :), and maybe it will wear out over time, who can say these things for sure? But I'm a lot like Silverfox, I think. I'd much rather have someone who was with me because he *wanted* to be there, rather than because he had no choice. I too am a contrary creature, and, in looking back, I should have done what Silverfox says he would do: forcibly separated myself and made sure there was something holding the relationship together besides the bond. Oh, well, live and learn. Well, that's my two cents. And yes, Winterwind, your name IS depressingly accurate. :P Do you know what a pain it is having to deice your feathers before takeoff...? :) Talk to y'all later. -Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Keep wondering, keep wandering, but try not to do both at once. You run into things. -Carla Hennes My getting upset is not the end of the world. I do it every so often, and I've survived every single time, as did any people or structures in the immediate vicinity. -Me ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:35:45 -0800 (PST) From: "Patrick S. Waterlander" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other races Message-ID: On the note that Esmeralda mentioned sentient cars, does anyone recall Mortis, from On A Pale Horse? I think that idea would sort of fit, but it would require a LOT of magic. Declan -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -Wishing he wasn't so tired of life- Declan patw-+AT+-clark.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:09:07 EDT From: "Winterwind" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: T. Huff Message-ID: <609B85556-+AT+-pub.sbu.edu> On Mon. 1/29, Stormcloud wrote: >Vicki Nelson and Di Tregarde are a similar type of heroine. >Although I must admit the vampires stole the show for me in both >series. Andre LeBrel and Henry Fitzroy. Oh, did >anyone else catch the Misty reference, it was either in the second >or third book, someone refers to police detectives Lackey and Dixon? >I though that was cute! I did! I laughed my head off! It reminds me of The Death Gate series by Weis and Hickman - anyone read those? Anyway, there are continual references to other series, including a dragon who complains that "I could have gone somewhere where I'd be appriciated! Pern, for instance!" Whew! Now that I've got *that* out of my system, I also remember that the Huff book with that reference to Lackey and Dixon said that they were working on "the Griffon case." Heh heh heh .... I've got to lay off the coffee in the middle of the afternoon..., Winter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:17:48 -0800 From: Joshua Jones To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: 1-2-3-4, I declare Mage War Message-ID: <199601302117.NAA17572-+AT+-ix11.ix.netcom.com> At 04:52 PM 1/28/96 GMT, you wrote: > > :Jaguar, you're out of your ever-loving MIND! What in the great >starred skies prompted you to go and get into a fight with the >Shadow-Lover? Don't you know that if you kill him, you either have to >take up his duties or watch the world degenerate into mass Chaos around you?: :The battle was never to the death... I'm just looking for a little fun, besides how does one kill what's already dead? ;): - Shadow-Lover *************************-E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com-************************ * - Life is like a game of bridge: If you can't get a good partner at least * * have a good hand... * * * * - Of all the brightly colored swirls of fantasy, reality is by far the * * darkest.. * * * ********************************-IRC: Hairenn-******************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:17:51 -0800 From: Joshua Jones To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: First Move... re: Jaguar Magewar Message-ID: <199601302117.NAA17591-+AT+-ix11.ix.netcom.com> At 05:02 AM 1/28/96 GMT, you wrote: >Shadow-Lover wrote: > :I know the risks, Shadow-Lover. It is my home too, and I have >fought here many a time. I have all the wisdom and skills taught by my >teacher-Goddess. This contest may not be as easy as you think.: :If I was looking for an easy battle, I would have gone for one of the men in white... No, I'd rather face one of a higher skill than that: > *Jaguar stands back, smiling kindly, and waits for Shadow-Lover >to make his move.* *Shadow-Lover, unimpressed by Jaguar's obvious waste of power studies her movements for a moment..* :Imagine, allowing enough power to leak that it causes that kind of glow... She should really work on her control!: He thinks to himself.. *Shadow-Lover's cloak billows with an ethereal wind and the onyx focus around his neck glows with the power he summons* :Let's see how she deals with this!: *The outlines of Shadow-Lover's physical form blurs as he casts his spell...* :Ooo gotta work on the control myself: *Shadow-Lover speaks a word that makes reality shift for a moment causing the gifted among the watchers to feel as if they have just had a bumpy trip through a gate, those without the gift see the shadows in the circle rise and gain form as Shadow-Lover calls them from the other plane* :A minor expenditure of power, and they owe me one anyway... Come to think of it, they owe me several...: *Jaguar finds herself surrounded on all fronts by shadows, some bearing the form of humans, others things out of mortal nightmares. The demi-shadows circle Jaguar then rush her from all sides in a very physical attack.. Shadow-Lover takes a step back and prepares to counter...* :Ahhh... It has only just begun: - Shadow-Lover *************************-E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com-************************ * - Life is like a game of bridge: If you can't get a good partner at least * * have a good hand... * * * * - Of all the brightly colored swirls of fantasy, reality is by far the * * darkest.. * * * ********************************-IRC: Hairenn-******************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:17:46 -0800 From: Joshua Jones To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: Message-ID: <199601302117.NAA17552-+AT+-ix11.ix.netcom.com> At 04:13 AM 1/28/96 GMT, you wrote: >Shadow-Lover wrote: :YOU're MINE!: > I don't do constructs, I keep no set spells on me or my land, and >though my God thinks I'm being silly, he's not going to strike you down >because I took up your challenge. Very good... ;) It is kinda silly, but you have to admit it's fun! How often do you get to toss levin bolts around on the astral against the keeper of the dead? ;) - Shadow-Lover *************************-E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com-************************ * - Life is like a game of bridge: If you can't get a good partner at least * * have a good hand... * * * * - Of all the brightly colored swirls of fantasy, reality is by far the * * darkest.. * * * ********************************-IRC: Hairenn-******************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:25:53 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Anne Cross wrote: > The list of not-lifebonded people: > > Jadrek & Kethry > Tarma & her dead boyfriend > Elspeth & Darkwind > Nyara & Skif ^^^^^^^^^ Nope! And I have confirmation! In WoFury, Skif does his whole lecture on lifebonding at the two of them. Also, remember in MPawn, Savil says that Mardic and Donni confirmed that Tylendel and Vanyel were 'bonded because lifebonded could recognize other 'bonded... hmmmmm...did that come out at all coherently? > One that I'm not allowed to mention yet. > > Roald & his consort (I can't remember the name and I don't have > my books. They're 500 miles away and stay so for the next five months.) Roald didn't have a consort, did he? If that's Randale, yep, he was lifebonded too. If it's not, who the bloody heck's the consort? |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | He screams and screams and pounds his head against the wall until | | wailing phantom firetrucks paces across his vision. | | PAIN. PAIN IS ALL HE WANTS: We shall never forget and never forgive. | | AND NEVER EVER FEAR | |FEAR IS FOR THE ENEMY FEAR AND BULLETS | |-----------------------http://www.sidwell.edu/~rholsen------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:47:28 -0800 (PST) From: TSALE-+AT+-ups.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds Message-ID: <960130134728.202110f4-+AT+-ups.edu> I appologize in advance for this message but I have to stick my two cents in. As a newbie I fully expect to be flamer or whatever for continuing on the Lovebond vs. Lifebonded chars debate, but oh well. I agree with the list of non-lifebonded with one HUGE exception. Skif & Nyra Did I totally missinterpret the scene in the last MAge Winds book? Ghost Stefan pulled Skif and Nyra aside and talked about the difficulties of a lifebond? If the judgement of who a lifebonded pair is has to come from outside the pair, a judgement from a spirtual half of a nother lifebond would certainly seem to qualify. tayla ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:40:55 EDT From: "Winterwind" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Bard names... Message-ID: <6851064D4-+AT+-pub.sbu.edu> Me again. ((evil laugh)) Actually, I was wondering if anyone can recall the names of Kestral's father and uncle and cousin in "The Lark and the Wren". I was thinking about something ((gasp! believe it or not!!)) and my copy of the book is inaccessible for the moment. Thanks, Winter ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------Jill M. Morrison - morrisjm-+AT+-sbu.edu---------------- ----Journalism major/English minor at St. Bonaventure University------ ---------in Allegany, N.Y. - the snow capital of the world!----------- ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt -----of in your philosophy." - "Hamlet," Act 1.5, lines 175-176.----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:42:43 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kethry in Rethwellan Message-ID: <7B1EA41C17-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> Hi All! On Tue, Jan 30, Korendil wrote: > Nopers:( Going along w/ our wonderful little Companion + Shadow-Lover = > Companion Theory, Grove Born Companions are new, as was mentioned > in...WoFate? WoC? one of those...so Rolan is a newbie. Nevere before > born. Like Gwena. and maybe others. who knows? ;> I've been wondering about this. What/where is your proof that Grove- born Companions are new? Is it when Vanyel told Elspeth (after he 'hijacked' Firesong's gate (WoC, I believe)) that Gwena was Grove-born, and so lacked experience? Just curious Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:09:17 -0500 (EST) From: Ashke To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Neave Message-ID: > > Well, Neave was already Chosen, so he had the Companion-bond. I think > he would lifebond-- probably to a Healer, Mindhealer, or Empath, someone > who could share his pain with him, and maybe leech some of it away thru > their bond. His lifemate would have to be very sympathetic and he/she > would need a great deal of patience, but I really think he would be the > type to bond. > > -+AT+->--- > Stormcloud Moon > the Misty Maniac Prism > wilsonj-+AT+-sjumusic.stjohns.edu Power! > > O blood, blood, blood! -Othello > I ;missed the beginning of this thread. Could you please tell me who Neave is? Ashke ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:38:24 CST From: jr9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds Message-ID: <6999BF53D8E-+AT+-cub.uca.edu> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:55:54 GMT Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk From: Becky Anne Christensen To: jr9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu Subject: Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds Actually, the correct line is that lifebonds are rare among heralds and rarer still among the general population. I made the same mistake a while back, and looked it up. There are many Heralds, and only having 2 lifebonded couples is pretty rare. But it's weird to think that most of her hero-heroines are lifebonded. Besides Kero, I can't think of any body else that the books were about that wasn't lifebonded. (:*BECKY*:) Elspeth and Drakwind are not life bonded. -Pandora ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:52:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Names Issue Message-ID: <01I0MR1W5WXEQRX8M9-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: "Patrick S. Waterlander" > >On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Korendil wrote: > >> Awhiles ago we debated the 'correct' way to pronounce Vanyel's name. With >> my buying the BTS CD, the situation ahs worsened... >> >> B: Shin'a'in is pronounced Shin-ay-in. ay being a long i >> >> THis is not good for me. It is destroying my pronounciations of it as >> >> B; Shin'a'in as SHin-a-in, being a long a >> >> Ok..probably NOT a pressing issue, but... >> >> >Well. I always prounounced Shin'a'in as Shin-ah-in. Oh well > It seems to me that that's the way it _should_ be pronounced, if you follow the pronunciation guide in Oathbreakers. Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:55:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Dead? Message-ID: <01I0MR72T1FYQRX8M9-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> On Sat, 27 Jan 1996, Gyrfalcon wrote: > > Alright who killed the list? Mel? Mat? Jaguar? Declan? Fess up, or > I'll send out the MIW! > > BWTMIW! > > --Gyrfalcon Well, my school system shut down for upgrades for about 4 days, so I have _no_ idea what you're talking about! :) Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jan 96 18:50:39 EST From: Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: Non-Human Heralds Message-ID: <960130235038_102744.2515_GHT67-2-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Stormcloud (The Misty Maniac!) wrote--- >I do not think there would ever be any non-human Heralds, >Am I the only one >who got the impression that intelligent non-humans in Velgarth (i.e. >the gryphons, kyree, tervardi, hertasi, dyheli, and others) all >serve a specific purpose, and so they couldn't make the whole-hearted >commitment to Valdemar that a human could who has no other commitments? Every single non-human has a specific purpose? Are these individual races bound to wherever they live, like the Shin'a'in and Tayledras are? I know the hertasi are some kind of servants--but does that mean that every single hertasi that can be a servant *is* one? There are no dissatisfied non-humans anywhere that do not fit their specific purpose? Also, what *are* the specific purposes of the rest? I don't remember... is it mentioned somewhere? Not sarcasm, just my disjointed way of writing E-mail.... Zhai'ha'allav'a! ______ __ __ _______ ________ _______ __ / ____ \ / / / / / ___ / / ____ / /__ __/ / / / /___/ / \ \_/ / / / / / / /___/ / / / / /_____ / ____ < _\ / / / / / / ____ / / / / ____ / /__/ /_/ /____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ / / /_/ /_/ /_/ 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com "Dear gods, it's a conspiracy of fools!" Jake in real life - Vanyel from _Magic's Price_ ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jan 96 18:50:34 EST From: Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: Companions (was Re: Other Races) Message-ID: <960130235034_102744.2515_GHT67-1-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> I wrote: > Companions are in horse form because (I think I read this somewhere) that's >the best/most useful form to work with humans. Then, EE wrote: >Horses were the most >common form of transport when the Baron got the first companion, - but look >at the developed world now - it ain't horses we use, it's motorcars. So, .... >whaddya fancy, a white, sentient Lotus Elan, or maybe a Porshe, or a Ferrari - >or howsabout a deux-cheveux??! I mean progress is progress! Perhaps I should have said that Companions are in horse form because that's the best/most useful form for humans at the time of Misty's books... Although, a white, sentinent car reminisces me of Knight Rider... "Turbo boost, Kitt!" "No problem, Herald Michael." Zhai'ha'allav'a! ______ __ __ _______ ________ _______ __ / ____ \ / / / / / ___ / / ____ / /__ __/ / / / /___/ / \ \_/ / / / / / / /___/ / / / / /_____ / ____ < _\ / / / / / / ____ / / / / ____ / /__/ /_/ /____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ / / /_/ /_/ /_/ 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com "Dear gods, it's a conspiracy of fools!" Jake in real life - Vanyel from _Magic's Price_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:04:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tanya Huff (was: Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines Message-ID: <01I0MRC12R8OQRX8M9-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Rosario Holsen-Baker > >On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Mat Timmerman wrote: > >> From: Rosario Holsen-Baker >> > >> >On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Mat Timmerman wrote: >> >> Her Victory Nelson books are _very_ good. They are: _Blood Price_, >> >> _Blood Trails_, _Blood Lines_, and _Blood Pact_ (haven't read the last >> >> one yet--no time!). They are remeniscent of Misty's Di Tregarde books, >> >> but I have to say, I like the Nelson books better. >> >> >> > Remeniscent, nothing! A paranormal PI with a vampire-lover and a human >> >complication? Even the romance writing is the same, 'cept it's the >> >vampire who cranks out the bodice-rippers. :) >> >> But Di isn't actually a PI, and Vicki isn't exclusively a supernatural one. >> And who's Di's Celluci(human complication)? I do _not_ believe that it >> could be Mark Valdez. >> > Dave whatshisname. Di was sort of, in the Spook Squad (I think I'm >reading those books more than is good for me). 'Cept that was only in the >first book...hmmmm....they both went up against gods and survived, though. Well, Dave wasn't really in any competition with Andre, like Celluci and Henry are (don't forget, I haven't read Blood PAct (#4) yet). Also, by the time of CotN, Dave wasn't really a concern, much less a complication. And IIRC, no one hired the Spook Squad, they just found Bad Things (TM) and fixed them. BTW - would anyone else like to see any books about the Spook Squad (when they were the SS, not reunion type things like in Jinx High)? If you're talking about the Egyptian god in Blood Lines, Viki and Co. didn't really go up against him. They fought with his servant/High Priest. Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:32:26 EST5EDT From: "Starhawk" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: An entirely BRAND NEW thread... Message-ID: <28C6E4B0E49-+AT+-apps.sbu.edu> Actually, it's just a question, but I wanted to get y'all's attention. I asked this about a year ago, but things may have changed since then. Does anyone out there know of a David Eddings discussion list something like this Misty list? Thought I'd ask... Zhai'helleva-- Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Keep wondering, keep wandering, but try not to do both at once. You run into things. -Carla Hennes My getting upset is not the end of the world. I do it every so often, and I've survived every single time, as did any people or structures in the immediate vicinity. -Me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 11:58:36 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Symbs & life-bond differences. Was Re: bleaching etc Message-ID: <9601310058.AA13567-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> > > Seanna wrote: > > > Just a thought: how many people would choose to have a Symb, as in > > > Varley's "Equinoctial"? Anyone? Seanna continued: > For those who don't know, Varley is, IMO, the best (or close to it!) > SF writer alive. He's been compared to Heinlein, but is much better - > and _much_ more ..interesting. "Equinoctial" is a short story > (novelette?) about a group of humans who live in the rings of Saturn, > each of them encased in and partnered by an artificial life-form > called a Symb. > A pair can live in space without any artificial aids; the Symb takes > in sunlight and (through photosynthesis) gives the human oxygen and > sugars etc. The human provides the Symb with carbon dioxide and > minerals. It's commitment for life (often lasting several centuries): > the Symb uses your brain, roams freely through your memories, can > stimulate any nerves directly (and channels all outside information) > .. People are few and far between, so the Symb becomes your lover, > parent, friend and alter ego... > All humans who have chosen to pair up with a Symb swear they weren't > even alive before, but that kind of commitment scares most people. > I, among others, would volunteer instantly, if it was possible :). > Beats the hell out of Companion-bonds and Lifebonds... I sit enlightened. :) Actually I have read one of Varley's latest, though the name escapes me.. Orpheus Dreams perhaps? Anyway, the Symb's were mentioned in passing, in that book, but I have to admit, I found the concept both interesting and frightening. In that book, it was fairly strongly implied that once you bond, you literally aren't the same person - you and the Symb are one entity in a single body and the old you isn't there. It's not a case of "you and the Symb" deciding what you want to do or whatever, it's "youandtheSymb" deciding - not you, not the Symb, rather this synergistic entity. (Note - I'm probably overstating this somewhat because in the book a Symb did withdraw from the brain of its human temporarily indicating that the old, original human personality still existed). I actually found this concept rather frightening - setting aside the question of a soul for the moment, all that I am, lives in my head. If that were to radically change because of some outside force, then to some extent then "I" as a person have been changed. That's one of the reasons I won't ever touch mind-altering drugs and dislike alcohol. Hmm, that's not very clear - an example - it's the difference between not doing "x" (say, eating garlic) because your life-bonded doesn't like "x" and *not even wanting* to do "x" because your life-bonded doesn't like "x". The former is part of the give and take of a healthy relationship, the latter IMHO, is not. (Note, if the symb thing were just physical, or two different people in the one body who could share memories, I wouldn't have a problem with it.) I'd take a life-bond in a shot (where people *act* as one unit) but you offer me a Symb type thing (where people *think* as one unit) and it'll happen only when you pry the mind-shields from my cold dead brain. :) And if this might indicate I shy away from committment, tough. ;) Whew.. Intense, huh? Just thought I'd point out the flip side. Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jan 96 19:48:22 EST From: Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: Shadow Stalker (was Re: The Names Issue) Message-ID: <960131004822_102744.2515_GHT80-5-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Korendil wrote: >;> It wasn't THAT bad for me;> I only fastforwarded on My Lady's Eyes. >and Cold-Drake. And Vrondi. when I got sick of that, I just dubbed a >copy, where *some how* those songs disappeared! pretty *amazing*, eh? And you didn't dub out "Herald's Creed?" IMO, it's terrible. I'm just glad it's at the *end* of the tape so all I have to do is fastforward to the other side... Zhai'ha'allav'a! ______ __ __ _______ ________ _______ __ / ____ \ / / / / / ___ / / ____ / /__ __/ / / / /___/ / \ \_/ / / / / / / /___/ / / / / /_____ / ____ < _\ / / / / / / ____ / / / / ____ / /__/ /_/ /____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ / / /_/ /_/ /_/ 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com "Dear gods, it's a conspiracy of fools!" Jake in real life - Vanyel from _Magic's Price_ ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jan 96 19:48:21 EST From: Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: The Names Issue Message-ID: <960131004821_102744.2515_GHT80-4-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Becky wrote: >Okay, how did they pronounce it? [Vanyel's name] On Shadow Stalker, it's pronounced *both* van-YEL (short a) and VAHN-yl (Well, I *tried* to spell it out right!) with the accent on two different syllables in two different songs sung by Heather Alexander. Frustrating! Although I always heard it pronounced van-YEL. And, Stormy wrote: >Please, nobody jump on me or yell at me. . . but I couldn't care less >how Van's name is pronounced! Van is Van is Van, and he's a great guy >no matter how you say his name! Yes, Stormy , but aren't you the least bit curious on how it's supposed to sound? Now that there's two pronunciations on the tapes, I want to know ... Zhai'ha'allav'a! ______ __ __ _______ ________ _______ __ / ____ \ / / / / / ___ / / ____ / /__ __/ / / / /___/ / \ \_/ / / / / / / /___/ / / / / /_____ / ____ < _\ / / / / / / ____ / / / / ____ / /__/ /_/ /____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ / / /_/ /_/ /_/ (that's RYE-nath ) 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com "Dear gods, it's a conspiracy of fools!" Jake (JAIK) in real life - Vanyel from _Magic's Price_ ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jan 96 19:48:31 EST From: Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: One Sided Bonds Message-ID: <960131004830_102744.2515_GHT80-8-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> I wrote: > I could easily see someone who is completely dedicated to another person and > have that other person not respond. It is possible non-bonded wise, to > completely love someone and have them not feel the same way, so what's stopping > the development of a bond? It would be malicious and tragic, but I think it's > possible. And, Catherine Osborne then wrote: >Ah. "Completely dedicated" is different from "lifebond." IMHO, of course, >a lifebond is a sort of mystical predestined-from-birth kind of thing >which is *built in* to your system. Completely dedicated, on the other >hand, can *develop* and can therefore be one-sided. To clarify--I used a bad analogy. Can't a 'bond just then be built-in to one person? Zhai'ha'allav'a! ______ __ __ _______ ________ _______ __ / ____ \ / / / / / ___ / / ____ / /__ __/ / / / /___/ / \ \_/ / / / / / / /___/ / / / / /_____ / ____ < _\ / / / / / / ____ / / / / ____ / /__/ /_/ /____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ / / /_/ /_/ /_/ 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com "Dear gods, it's a conspiracy of fools!" Jake in real life - Vanyel from _Magic's Price_ ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jan 96 19:48:26 EST From: Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: Lifebonds vs. Lovebonds. Message-ID: <960131004825_102744.2515_GHT80-6-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> >Actually, the correct line is that lifebonds are rare among >heralds and rarer still among the general population. I made the same >mistake a while back, and looked it up. There are many Heralds, and only >having 2 lifebonded couples is pretty rare. But it's weird to think that >most of her hero-heroines are lifebonded. Besides Kero, I can't think of >any body else that the books were about that wasn't lifebonded. Were Kethry and Jardek 'bonded? I can't remember, and I don't have my books here... Zhai'ha'allav'a! ______ __ __ _______ ________ _______ __ / ____ \ / / / / / ___ / / ____ / /__ __/ / / / /___/ / \ \_/ / / / / / / /___/ / / / / /_____ / ____ < _\ / / / / / / ____ / / / / ____ / /__/ /_/ /____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ / / /_/ /_/ /_/ 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com "Dear gods, it's a conspiracy of fools!" Jake in real life - Vanyel from _Magic's Price_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:09:18 -0500 From: Aquila111-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other races Message-ID: <960130210914_410693038-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> Yes, the "official Herald personas" I was referring to were those recognized by the organization Queen's Own. I figured that since Misty herself wrote the requirements, they were a pretty fair approximation of her expectations for the "real" thing. Though you do have a point, it would be hard for me (an eagle after all!) to get into some hertasi's head. But then, I would still think that Nyara would have been Chosen. Speaking of hertasi, did they "lose" the ability to speak? In the present timeline - when Darkwind is going to Treyvan and Hydonna - Nera only Mindspeaks. But in the prehistory, all the hertasi seem to be able to speak and Mindspeak. I suppose what happened was that Misty developed the hertasi the more she wrote about them, and since WoFate was written before TBG, she maybe had not yet decided if they could "speak." Esmeralda wrote: >Another example of the failure of Velgarth to develop. Horses were the most >common form of transport when the Baron got the first companion, - but look >at the developed world now - it ain't horses we use, it's motorcars. .... > I mean progress is progress! That's a dangerous trap to get into - thinking that the only way a culture develops is as Western Europe did. It led to that nasty idea called "white man's burden," where the white man was responsible for "civilizing noble savages" and such. As Valdemarians say, "There is no one true way" and that holds for the development of societies too. They have entirely different circumstances than Western Europe did. But, for the sake of comparison let's look at 17th C Western Europian Countries and Valdemar. Government: Valdemar and WEC both had monarchies. However, Valdemar has had none of the wars of succession as Europe did - thanks to Companions. Valdemar has also had 2000 yrs with very little internal strife, something Louis XIV could only dream of. Infrastructure: Haven has paved roads and street lights. There are 2 good highways in Valdemar, bridges, and there are regular Guard outposts. There is good dissemination of information from Heralds. WEC had cobblestone streets with no gutters or garbage pickup. The roads and bridges are probably comprable to Valdemar. There is no "police force." Info gets out slowly. Health: Valdmar has an organized system of trained, specialized Healers. They are even accomplished herbalists - eg "willowbark tea" (which is where asprin comes from). You can argue that their magical Gifts has slowed down the "progress" of medical discovery, but little discoveries were made in WEC until the late 19th Century. In the 17th C WEC was battling the bubonic plague. The main place people got info on the plague (and told what to do about it) was in the Church. The Church could do little to help people. Some places, like Italy, had mini health ministries, but the "doctors" had little clue as to what was going on and were ignored by the populace anyways. In fact the Church opposed these health ministries. Popular cures were smelling flowers to keep the evil miasmas away ("pockets full of posie") or bathing in urine. Technology: The Blues are right on par with WEC with their ideas about wave motion, physics, algebra, mechanics... I can't remember if one of the Blues was building a simple combustion engine or not, but that was not developed on Earth until the 19th century. Education: There is a literacy program in Valdemar, something that did not come to WEC and USA until the 20th C. Religion: There is no one true way doctrine leads to a melting pot of religions in Valdemar. Meanwhile in WEC the Reformation is going on (France is killing Huegenot) and Jew and Muslims are also persecuted. Witches are burned. Agriculture and Food Output: Probably equal. I'd say that Valdemar has her foot up on 17th Century Europe. But that doesn't mean she'll follow Europe's path and have and Industrial Revolution any time soon. Magic is one factor Europe didn't have to contend with. But Valdemar is striving for a balance between Magic and Technology. Let's hope that one or the other doesn't win out in Valdemar. Eastern Empire shows what magic dependence can do. Western Earth shows what Technology dependence does... Wind to thy Wings, Aquila ::flap flap flap:: ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 342 *********************************