MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 343 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) re: lifebonds vs. lovebonds by Rosario Holsen-Baker 2) Re: Cat People? by Rosario Holsen-Baker 3) Re: Dojos? by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 4) Re: Other races by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 5) Re: Non-human heralds by Kayla 6) Re: Kethry in Rethwellan by Kayla 7) Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds by CHONNI 8) Re: Symbs & life-bond differences. Was Re: bleaching etc by "Sanna Koulu" 9) Re: Neave by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 10) Re: Dojos? by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 11) Re: Tanya Huff (was: Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines by Rosario Holsen-Baker 12) Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds by Catherine Osborne 13) Re: First Move... re: Jaguar Magewar by Rosario Holsen-Baker 14) Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds by "Starhawk" 15) LoB vs. LiB: specifically Roald by "Starhawk" 16) Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds (sticky ropes) by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 17) Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: by Rosario Holsen-Baker 18) Re: progress by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 19) Re: Eddings by Stormcloud 20) Re: Non-human heralds by Stormcloud 21) "Recycling" of herald's souls by Birgit Hanel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:27:51 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: lifebonds vs. lovebonds Message-ID: Cindy wrote: > I suggested that Eldan and Kerowyn were lifebonded, and Anne Cross came > back with a direct quote from Misty to indicate that they weren't.... > > *rats!* and it was such a nice block tower, too. (Crash bang topple!) That's okay..."castles made of sand slip into the sea...eventually..." :) > > Okay, new data has arrived. Kero and Eldan weren't communicating via > a lifebond. Now what the blazes explains their ability to communicate > in such a --er-- full-bodied fashion across such distances? I just > reread MPromise, and Yfandes had difficulty picking up sendings from > Leshya although they were no farther from Highjorune than Forst Reach. > But that wasn't due to distance! That was due to the fact that both Companion and Chosen were getting caught up in a downward spiral of hysteria! I'll attribute that slip to Occam's razor, though. :) And I have a spare Band-aid, if you need one. After this challange, I thought it prudent to keep First Aid equipment handy! :) |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | He screams and screams and pounds his head against the wall until | | wailing phantom firetrucks paces across his vision. | | PAIN. PAIN IS ALL HE WANTS: We shall never forget and never forgive. | | AND NEVER EVER FEAR | |FEAR IS FOR THE ENEMY FEAR AND BULLETS | |-----------------------http://www.sidwell.edu/~rholsen------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:30:09 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Cat People? Message-ID: Various people wrote: > >> >Isn't "Cat People" almost an oxymoron? > >> > >> Yes, or so my two cats tell me. :) That's why I haven't joined. :) > >> > > Augh! Like I keep saying, cats ARE people, they're just not HUMAN! > > > > > I have always held that cats are really elves in disguise. > They have pointed ears! And when mine disapears for weeks at a > time, he could be visiting the Elfhame! He's probabaly laughing at > me right now... > On my other list, there's a speculation that cats are really aliens (grey Reticulans, actually) in disguise. Maybe that explains why the Siamese never talk to me... :) |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | He screams and screams and pounds his head against the wall until | | wailing phantom firetrucks paces across his vision. | | PAIN. PAIN IS ALL HE WANTS: We shall never forget and never forgive. | | AND NEVER EVER FEAR | |FEAR IS FOR THE ENEMY FEAR AND BULLETS | |-----------------------http://www.sidwell.edu/~rholsen------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 14:59:10 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Dojos? Message-ID: <9601310359.AA17650-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> > I'm wondering. Does anyone here practice martial arts? (Mel?) And since > someone brought this up, does anyone know a good place to get teaching in > Tae-Kwon-Do and Tai-chi in the Portland OR/Vancouver WA area in the US? Guilty. (And practice *is* the mot juste, I definitely haven't got it anywhere near right yet). Blue belt in Tae-Kwon-Do, soon-to-be-blue-belt in Hap-Ki-Do. If you're looking for a Tae-Kwon-Do dojang, you should probably make sure that the club you join is under the World TKD Federation, or at least the US-TKD-Association, preferably both. A side note - looking for either Tae-Kwon-Do or Tai-chi seems rather odd somehow - they're rather divergent styles (one rather 'hard', one 'soft'). [Note: I use 'hard' & 'soft' in the technical sense, which very poorly summarized are: Hard - using direct force, using blocks as attacks, 'linear' movements eg TKD, Karate. Soft: circular motions, throws, locks etc eg Judo, Ju-jutsu, Aikido (not the Steven Seagall brand), some Kung Fu]. That's not to say hard or soft is better, they're just different. (One of the reasons I do Hapkido is because it's a combination of both). Rather Desperate ObMisty: Most of the unarmed fighting in Velgaarth seems to be towards the soft end of the spectrum. Lots of throws and locks designed to get your opponent off-balance so that you can use a weapon. ( That didn't really work did it? Never mind, I tried). Cheers, Kerry. "Without darkness, light is meaningless; without light, darkness impenetrable. Human perceptions are etched in shades of grey." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 16:12:45 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other races Message-ID: <9601310512.AA18126-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Declan writes: > On the note that Esmeralda mentioned sentient cars, does anyone recall > Mortis, from On A Pale Horse? I think that idea would sort of fit, but > it would require a LOT of magic. (An elven-steed could do everything that Mortis did.. apart from the "I am the steed of Death" type stunts). I've always thought elven-steeds the perfect solution.. Men could still go ga-ga over the car form and [very young] women could flip over the horse.. :) (No flames please, I know that's sexist & stereotyping, but it's meant as purely a flippant line). Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:14:04 +0800 From: Kayla To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Non-human heralds Message-ID: <199601310514.NAA15271-+AT+-jimi.vianet.net.au> At 04:06 31/01/96 GMT, you wrote: >On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Stormcloud wrote: > >> I do not think there would ever be any non-human Heralds, for the same >> reason that there are no Tayledras heralds and very few Shin'a'in >> ..... > A few of points. First, though I can't remember wheather I read it in >one of Misty's novels or in one of the Sword & Sorceress anthologies >(btw, another must-read for strong female heroes, ed. Marion Zimmer >Bradley), Tarma and a herald (I can't remember who, exactly) both called >on their godesses on a hunch. When she showed up, she confirmed that she >was indeed the godess of both peoples. As an interesting side note, Tarma >had had to borrow a set of the herald's whites which the godess turned >black upon appearing. Anyway, the reason a sword-sworn would probably not >be chosen is the same reason a sword-sworn would probably not become a >shaman: they already serve the goddess in a different way. Vows and Honour : Oathbreakers....Herald was Roald :) > Second, regarding the Tayledras, there are several reasons why a >Tayledras might be more elligeble to be chosen than say a Karsite >(Alberich) or a Rethwellan (Kero, the prince-consort). First, as I stated >above, they share a common godess, though they may not realize it. >Alberich worshipped a completely different god (no different facet here) >who, if I interpret it correctly, didn't want to war against the godess's >people. Also, Valdemar is considered a clan, of sorts (k'Valdemar), >complete with vale, heartstone, and Adepts. Who knows? More Tayledras >might move to Valdemar seeking something different (as Andesha left the >Shin'a'in for the Tayledras) and some of them are bound to be suitable to >be chosen. As those who have read BTS might recall, a companion didn't >just trot into Rethwellan and inform Kero she was a herald, it wasn't >until she was in Valdemar for a bit that she was chosen. > Companions have maintained several secrets and misconceptions about >themselves, such as the secret that they can mind-speak to anyone they >wish, the fact that they are mages of a sort, the fact that they are >'recycled' herald souls, and the misconception that they 'are' horse-like >beings. One could easily imagine a gryphon with, say, a companion in the >form of a hawk. > Hope I haven't pissed anyone off! > > ___________________ -==UDIC==- ________________ > |\__________________\ McCaffrey's White Dragon |\________________\ > ||Why is he talking | || | > || to that | a.k.a. || Don't ask. | > || White Coconut? | Jake Gipple \|________________| > \|__________________| (360)-887-4779 LEMUR! > > > Haven't pissed me off!! I have been theorising the same way myself! I'm sure it says in one of the books that companions rarely cross the border looking for their chosen, but that someone with the potential is likely to be chosen almost as soon as he/she enters Valdemar. Correct me if I am wrong...think it was in the Arrows of the Queen. Kayla kayla-+AT+-vianet.net.au ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:18:33 +0800 From: Kayla To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kethry in Rethwellan Message-ID: <199601310518.NAA15499-+AT+-jimi.vianet.net.au> At 04:44 31/01/96 GMT, you wrote: >On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Birgit Hanel wrote: > >> On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Patrick S. Waterlander wrote: >> >> > Going back to the Companion=reincarnated herald bit, maybe Roald=Rolan? >> > >> > Declan >> > >> My impression was that *reincarnated* Heralds appear as those Companions >> who were born in Valdemar; since Rolan is a grove-born, I think that he >> is indeed some spirit that manifested in Companion-shape and not a reborn H. >> As a counterexample take Sayvil/Savil (did I get the names mixed up? I >> was referring to Vanyel's aunt resp. Kero's Companion). IMO it was pretty >> clear that Misty made that connection. >> Blessings >> Birgit* >> >Didn't the mage who took over Bolthaven (Quentin, I believe?) note, upon >first seeing Elspeth ride in, that she was riding some sort of >magical-spirit-guardian thing or something? > > ___________________ -==UDIC==- ________________ > |\__________________\ McCaffrey's White Dragon |\________________\ > ||Why is he talking | || | > || to that | a.k.a. || Don't ask. | > || White Coconut? | Jake Gipple \|________________| > \|__________________| (360)-887-4779 LEMUR! > > Yep, I think I remember him stating that Gwena was of a higher order than Cymry....She 'glowed' more to mage sight. Kayla kayla-+AT+-vianet.net.au ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:46:32 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, puppies and dragons wrote: (snip, snip, swallow) > has anybody actually taken a look at Misty's lifebonded > couples? None of them seem really unhappy! > I dunno, my impression from Magic's Promise was that Auntie Savil (sp?) was very worried about Van and Lyndel, cuz Lyndel was treating Van rather badly, and was afraid he would never let Van mature and grow. That doesn't seem like very happy in the long run... And RE the Live VS. Love bond poll: since I started it, I'm keeping track of it and will post it after everyone has time to vote (like another week). Gotta go; I have to make a 20 minute presentation on the War in Heaven in Milton's Paradise Lost tomorrow, and winging it is not an option... ****************Herald Chonni Brightwolf************************************** Just because some of us can read and write and do a little math does not mean we should conquer the universe. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:04:08 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Symbs & life-bond differences. Was Re: bleaching etc Message-ID: <1F983416A7C-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Kerry wrote: > > > Seanna wrote: > > > > Just a thought: how many people would choose to have a Symb, as in > > > > Varley's "Equinoctial"? Anyone? > > > > Seanna continued: (description snipped) > > .. People are few and far between, so the Symb becomes your lover, > > parent, friend and alter ego... > > All humans who have chosen to pair up with a Symb swear they weren't > > even alive before, but that kind of commitment scares most people. > > I, among others, would volunteer instantly, if it was possible :). > > Beats the hell out of Companion-bonds and Lifebonds... > > I sit enlightened. :) Actually I have read one of Varley's latest, though > the name escapes me.. Orpheus Dreams perhaps? Anyway, the Symb's were > mentioned in passing, in that book, but I have to admit, I found the > concept both interesting and frightening. In that book, it was fairly > strongly implied that once you bond, you literally aren't the same > person - you and the Symb are one entity in a single body and the old > you isn't there. Hmm? You might be referring to Ophiuchi Hotline? It's not new, it's Varley's first novel reprinted. I haven't read it though. Lessee - I'm under the impression that the knowledge to create ?? symbs came over the Hotline, but was refined further by humans. That might account for the difference. Namely, in "Equinoctial" it's definitely two people in the same body who don't blend at all. I understand what you mean, though. I think :). -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 10:13:50 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Neave Message-ID: <9601310913.AA22016-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> Asheke asked: >I ;missed the beginning of this thread. Could you please tell me who >Neave is? It all started with Kate, (Re: Characters waiting for plots) 28 Jan >What about poor old Neave? -- he seems to have been moping for at least >two and a bit trilogies and that has to be a pretty good indication of a >lifebond on the horizon. > Kate Then Becky chipped in, 29 Jan: >Okay, I should know who Neave is, but I can't remember who. Which book(s) >is he in? The name sounds really familiar, someone please refresh my memory. > (:*BECKY*:) Then the incredibly helpful me, >I bet someone else gets in before me, but, what the heck. He was a student >around the time Talia was - not her year tho'. When they realised that Talia >was an empath, they had her drop her shields, and Neave projected an emotionally >traumatic scene at her, which she got totally caught up in. He'd been a little, >on his own in a city, and been abused by the others around him. (the first >Arrows book) >He then has the dubious distinction of being one of the few people Eslpeth has >carnal knowledge of - I didn't say slept with, because he is apparently unable >to actually sleep with anyone he's so scarred by his experiences. (the first >Winds book I think). >I don't think he crops up apart from that, but if anyone needed a companion with >mind healing, it was him. Seems to me he was still suffering, and in need of >help some time after being chosen. Kate reckoned he deserved a lifebond - I'm >not sure if he'd cope with one, but he'd certainly make a good book! and it's sort of trickled on from there. I find it fasciniating how you can compose what you think is the most amazing thread ever thought of, post your mail, and it gets totally ignored (no I am _not_ sulking), while a throw-away at the end of a mail gets swooped on and chewed to bits by the pack. So, here's my thought for the day - it's probably been gnawed to death before, but I _have_ skimmed the archives, and can't recall. Talia cannot mindspeak Rolan. That we all know. There are times when she really could do with a bit of support - I mean she's a very young Monarch's Own, and Rolan is a very experienced MO companion. We then discover that Rolan can natter away with Dirk, and Elspeth, Griffon and whossisname hear him in the battle at the end of Arrows 3 - and isn't there someone else, or am I confusing him with thingy - the one who befriends whatsit (aaarrrggghhh my brain hurts - Karal and ...... nope, s'gone). We also discover via Savil/Sayvil that companions can talk to anyone they chose, even non-gifted, non-heralds. So, ... why doesn't Rolan talk to his chosen? It seems a bit mean, she has to trance down to get impressions from him if things are important, and all the time he could just tell her - rather like struggling for hours to speak to someone in Dutch (not easy I can assure you), then discovering at the end of the evening that their english is probably better than yours (it happens!). All those encouraging smiles become smirks at your attempts to massacre their language. I can see Rolan sitting there, fingers drumming with impatience as Talia gropes her way to a understanding, him itching to say "look will you just get on with it, please" - heck he probably knows what she's trying to say before she starts. The more I think of it, the more I think Rolan's a meany. OK, coffe break over, work waits, tot ziens, Esmeralda Evensbane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:21:17 GMT From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Dojos? Message-ID: <9601311021.AA07381-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Declan asked: > I'm wondering. Does anyone here practice martial arts? (Mel?) And since > someone brought this up, does anyone know a good place to get teaching in > Tae-Kwon-Do and Tai-chi in the Portland OR/Vancouver WA area in the US? I did a couple of years of karate, but I'm really not built for it as a long-term interest (as anyone who's seen me in the flesh can testify :)). Also a little T'ai Chi, once upon a time, and hubby Graham still does TC (more or less)... Misty-related content: hmm, it always did annoy me that we never see any Heralds who are in anything less than the peak of physical fitness (unless they're actually injured). Yes, OK, if I did physical training every day for five years before becoming a Herald, I would probably not be the shape I am now, but couldn't we see just one fat Herald sometime? One Herald who was out of shape and not because they were injured or old? One Herald who actually didn't _like_ physical exercise? (The gods know that _I_ don't, I find it monumentally boring.) My rant for the day. :) Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:12:35 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tanya Huff (was: Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Mat Timmerman wrote: > If you're talking about the Egyptian god in Blood Lines, Viki and Co. > didn't really go up against him. They fought with his servant/High Priest. > As did Di. But they both had to face the Gods in the end. |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | He screams and screams and pounds his head against the wall until | | wailing phantom firetrucks paces across his vision. | | PAIN. PAIN IS ALL HE WANTS: We shall never forget and never forgive. | | AND NEVER EVER FEAR | |FEAR IS FOR THE ENEMY FEAR AND BULLETS | |-----------------------http://www.sidwell.edu/~rholsen------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:44:18 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Jan 1996 TSALE-+AT+-ups.edu wrote: > I agree with the list of non-lifebonded with one HUGE exception. > > Skif & Nyra > > Did I totally missinterpret the scene in the last MAge Winds book? Ghost > Stefan pulled Skif and Nyra aside and talked about the difficulties of a > lifebond? If the judgement of who a lifebonded pair is has to come from > outside the pair, a judgement from a spirtual half of a nother lifebond > would certainly seem to qualify. Well. There has been some debate here. That scene can be interpreted two ways: first, they are lifebonded and Stef's telling them it ain't no bed of roses. Second, they're *not* and Stef's telling them they shouldn't wish to be, they should be happy with what they are. Personally, I think the evidence in that scene weighs towards the former. I\/ Catherine Osborne "After great pain, I\/ Sundancer a formal feeling comes." I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu --Emily Dickinson I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:05:37 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: First Move... re: Jaguar Magewar Message-ID: Shadow-Lover wrote: > :If I was looking for an easy battle, I would have gone for one of the men > in white... No, I'd rather face one of a higher skill than that: :Ooh! Thank you.: > *Shadow-Lover, unimpressed by Jaguar's obvious waste of power studies her > movements for a moment..* :Imagine, allowing enough power to leak that it > causes that kind of glow... She should really work on her control!: He > thinks to himself.. *Shadow-Lover's cloak billows with an ethereal wind and > the onyx focus around his neck glows with the power he summons* :Let's see > how she deals with this!: *The outlines of Shadow-Lover's physical form > blurs as he casts his spell...* :Ooo gotta work on the control myself: > *Shadow-Lover speaks a word that makes reality shift for a moment causing > the gifted among the watchers to feel as if they have just had a bumpy trip > through a gate, those without the gift see the shadows in the circle rise > and gain form as Shadow-Lover calls them from the other plane* :A minor > expenditure of power, and they owe me one anyway... Come to think of it, > they owe me several...: *Jaguar finds herself surrounded on all fronts by > shadows, some bearing the form of humans, others things out of mortal > nightmares. The demi-shadows circle Jaguar then rush her from all sides in > a very physical attack.. Shadow-Lover takes a step back and prepares to > counter...* :Ahhh... It has only just begun: > *Jaguar looks around her, laughs, and fades into the mist of the Astral, leaving only the fast-fading image of her grin.* :Control, my tail. I like being flashy.: *she calls to Shadow-Lover from the mists. Without betraying her location, she calls down purple lightning on the shadows, not from her hands, but from everywhere around the shades. They crackle for a moment, then disappear. Jaguar, chuckling slightly to herself and NOT glowing this time for the sake of stealth, reappears behind Shadow-Lover and whaps him upside his metaphysical head with energy bursts meant to stun.* :Now, see? I don't have to waste power if I don't want to.: *Jaguar fades back into the mist, to reappear slightly in front of him, and surrounds herself with a wall of flame.* :Come and get me, Shadow-Lover. I dare you.: |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | He screams and screams and pounds his head against the wall until | | wailing phantom firetrucks paces across his vision. | | PAIN. PAIN IS ALL HE WANTS: We shall never forget and never forgive. | | AND NEVER EVER FEAR | |FEAR IS FOR THE ENEMY FEAR AND BULLETS | |-----------------------http://www.sidwell.edu/~rholsen------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:41:14 EST5EDT From: "Starhawk" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds Message-ID: <299944D6F85-+AT+-apps.sbu.edu> >I appologize in advance for this message but I have to stick my two cents >in. As a newbie I fully expect to be flamer or whatever for continuing on >the Lovebond vs. Lifebonded chars debate, but oh well. Well, let's not say flamed. "Flamed" is such an ugly word. How about gently reproved? :) :) :) >I agree with the list of non-lifebonded with one HUGE exception. > > Skif & Nyra Erk! >Did I totally missinterpret the scene in the last MAge Winds book? Ghost >Stefan pulled Skif and Nyra aside and talked about the difficulties of a >lifebond? If the judgement of who a lifebonded pair is has to come from >outside the pair, a judgement from a spirtual half of a nother lifebond >would certainly seem to qualify. It seemed to me (and to most of the rest of the list [we've had this question..ahem...a FEW times...:)]) that Stefan was telling Skif and Nyara not to be upset because the DIDN'T have one...that Lifebonds aren't all they're cracked up to be. He was telling them that their lives are going to be tough enough...they didn't need to throw a lifebond into the equasion as well. Besides, at one point, Skif says (major paraphrase here) "I thought lifebonds were something EVERYBODY wanted." He wouldn't say that if he already had one. If he and Nyara had a lifebond already, they wouldn't need all the information about lifebonds Stefan gave them...they'd know it for themselves already. Well, that's all for now. Concerning Firesong and An'desha, I too am kind of glad to see a relationship in Velgarth that doesn't end happily ever after. Oh, and along some other thread that I can't quite put my finger on, I think the most hilarious "writing herself in" example is in Knights of Ghosts and Shadows, when Eric is lamenting the lack of decent fantasy being published. I think it goes something like, "...anything had to be better than what he was reading lately -- telepathic horses and ancient Aztec gods invading Dallas." Well, maybe that was another major paraphrase, but you see where I'm going with it. That's all for now...Winterwind, send me some internetwork mail.... (for those of you who don't know, Winterwind and Starhawk are interned...er I mean attend the same Siberian Death...I mean University...:) Zhai'helleva! Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Keep wondering, keep wandering, but try not to do both at once. You run into things. -Carla Hennes My getting upset is not the end of the world. I do it every so often, and I've survived every single time, as did any people or structures in the immediate vicinity. -Me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:46:50 EST5EDT From: "Starhawk" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: LoB vs. LiB: specifically Roald Message-ID: <299AC3606DE-+AT+-apps.sbu.edu> >> Roald & his consort (I can't remember the name and I don't have >> my books. They're 500 miles away and stay so for the next five months.) > > Roald didn't have a consort, did he? If that's Randale, yep, he >was lifebonded too. If it's not, who the bloody heck's the consort? He HAD to have a consort, you silly goose! Where would Selenay's father have come from if he didn't? :) -Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Keep wondering, keep wandering, but try not to do both at once. You run into things. -Carla Hennes My getting upset is not the end of the world. I do it every so often, and I've survived every single time, as did any people or structures in the immediate vicinity. -Me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 15:48:20 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lovebonds vs. Lifebonds (sticky ropes) Message-ID: <9601311448.AA22344-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> Cindy mused: >What if a lifebond is nothing more than a specialized kind of lovebond? >Think of each person as being born with a potential lovebond, which I >will describe as a "rope" with a sticky end that has a funny shape to it. >Since everyone has the "rope" and all ropes are sticky, if you get two >ropes together and keep them together long enough, they will stick to >each other. (Although there are different kinds of stickiness and some >of them are incompatible, so just contact isn't always enough.) >But each end is it's own shape. And every so often, it happens that >two people meet who have complementary shapes at the end of the rope. >When that occurs, a lifebond can happen. Since everyone is sort of >testing rope ends together when they meet, they can discover the match >right away, and at that point, if they stay together, the stickiness >will take over and pretty soon you will have two people, but only one >indivisible rope. A lifebond. I think I agree - sort of! I don't go with the pre-destined, fated from conception line on lifebonds. It makes it too easy to sit back and wait for life to happen rather than go out and make it. I accept that yes, there's an element of fate, but I also think that relationships are better for a bit of work, some give and take, the odd sacrifice, the occasional doubt - or in Cindy's analogy, some testing of the glue and rearranging of the fit (as it were ). I'm glad we don't seem to have any psychologists on this list - they'd have an entire Phd on the desires of the average fantasy freak for love and stability. I notice no-one's come back with a "stuff all bonds, gimme variety, gimme it all, now now now" type of answer - now is _that_ significant I wonder?! Maybe we're just an average bunch of nice people (yeuch, I hate being described as "nice" - I wanna be a rebel - I wanna be a bad girl - I ..... well, maybe not, tried it for a while and sort of ran out of steam! My heart wasn't really in it). Right, my 2 Meg ftp from Madrid to Holland is finally crawling it's conclusion, so the excuse to suspend work is going, going, ........gone! tot ziens Esmeralda Evensbane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:28:02 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: Message-ID: Shadow-Lover wrote: > > Very good... ;) It is kinda silly, but you have to admit it's fun! > How often do you get to toss levin bolts around on the astral against the > keeper of the dead? ;) > For that matter, how often do people challagne each other on this list? I personally think it's fun, and I fully intend to `stencil' your name on my .sig when I beat you at your own game. |--------------------------------<>------------------------------| | He screams and screams and pounds his head against the wall until | | wailing phantom firetrucks paces across his vision. | | PAIN. PAIN IS ALL HE WANTS: We shall never forget and never forgive. | | AND NEVER EVER FEAR | |FEAR IS FOR THE ENEMY FEAR AND BULLETS | |-----------------------http://www.sidwell.edu/~rholsen------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 16:27:53 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: progress Message-ID: <9601311527.AA22394-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> Aquila wrote: >Esmeralda wrote: >>Another example of the failure of Velgarth to develop. Horses were the most >>common form of transport when the Baron got the first companion, - but look >>at the developed world now - it ain't horses we use, it's motorcars. .... > >> I mean progress is progress! >That's a dangerous trap to get into - thinking that the only way a culture >develops is as Western Europe did. It led to that nasty idea called "white >man's burden," where the white man was responsible for "civilizing noble >savages" and such. As Valdemarians say, "There is no one true way" and that >holds for the development of societies too. They have entirely different >circumstances than Western Europe did. eerrmmm - I wasn't being like totally serious y'know, my mail went on to discuss sentient Lotus Elans, and Van unfolding himself off a white Harley, complete with white helmet, mirrored visor and leathers. (God I like that image - it's to many years since I gave up my Kawasaki 650 cc - I loved that machine). tot ziens Esmeralda Evensbane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:24:29 EST From: Stormcloud To: Subject: Re: Eddings Message-ID: <31JAN96.11240981.0036.MUSIC-+AT+-SJUMUSIC> >At 13:21 30/01/96 GMT, you wrote: >>EE wrote: >>> character. The men in those books tho - sheesh, Mr Eddings has some >interesting >>> attitudes on relationships - all those wiley women trapping men, then turnin >>> them into mindless morons, presumably through sex - check it out - >>> Relg and Tabia, Garion and CeNedra, Mandorallan and whossername, >Belgareth and >>> thingy, Silk and whatsit, Lellodorin or whatever he's called and his babe, >>> even Pol and Durnick - all the men become bemused shadows of their manly >selves, >>> while the women sit around with smug smiles on their faces. Notice how my >>> phenomenal ability to recall names has not let me down yet?! >>> >> >> Mandorallen and the Baroness E-somthing, Belgareth and Poledra, >>Silk/Kheldar and Velvet/Lisellem Lelldorin and Ariana. >> >> Couldn't resist any longer! I've got every last one of those books! >> >>|--------------------------------<>------------------------------| >>| He screams and screams and pounds his head against the wall until | >>| wailing phantom firetrucks paces across his vision. | >>| PAIN. PAIN IS ALL HE WANTS: We shall never forget and never forgive. | >>| AND NEVER EVER FEAR | >>|FEAR IS FOR THE ENEMY FEAR AND BULLETS | >>|-----------------------http://www.sidwell.edu/~rholsen------------------| >> >> >> >what are you on about? that's what happens in real life!!!!!! *just kidding* > > Kayla > >kayla-+AT+-vianet.net.au > Nice one, Kayla. Eddings does that in all of his books. In the Elenium and the Tamuli, too-- what stands out most in those books is Ehlana wrapping Sparhawk around her little finger! -+AT+->--- Stormcloud Moon the Misty Maniac Prism wilsonj-+AT+-sjumusic.stjohns.edu Power! O blood, blood, blood! -Othello ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:44:47 EST From: Stormcloud To: Subject: Re: Non-human heralds Message-ID: <31JAN96.11606274.0036.MUSIC-+AT+-SJUMUSIC> > A few of points. First, though I can't remember wheather I read it in >one of Misty's novels or in one of the Sword & Sorceress anthologies >(btw, another must-read for strong female heroes, ed. Marion Zimmer >Bradley), Tarma and a herald (I can't remember who, exactly) both called >on their godesses on a hunch. When she showed up, she confirmed that she >was indeed the godess of both peoples. As an interesting side note, Tarma >had had to borrow a set of the herald's whites which the godess turned >black upon appearing. Anyway, the reason a sword-sworn would probably not >be chosen is the same reason a sword-sworn would probably not become a >shaman: they already serve the goddess in a different way. > Second, regarding the Tayledras, there are several reasons why a >Tayledras might be more elligeble to be chosen than say a Karsite >(Alberich) or a Rethwellan (Kero, the prince-consort). First, as I stated >above, they share a common godess, though they may not realize it. >Alberich worshipped a completely different god (no different facet here) >who, if I interpret it correctly, didn't want to war against the godess's >people. Also, Valdemar is considered a clan, of sorts (k'Valdemar), >complete with vale, heartstone, and Adepts. Who knows? More Tayledras >might move to Valdemar seeking something different (as Andesha left the >Shin'a'in for the Tayledras) and some of them are bound to be suitable to >be chosen. As those who have read BTS might recall, a companion didn't >just trot into Rethwellan and inform Kero she was a herald, it wasn't >until she was in Valdemar for a bit that she was chosen. > Companions have maintained several secrets and misconceptions about >themselves, such as the secret that they can mind-speak to anyone they >wish, the fact that they are mages of a sort, the fact that they are >'recycled' herald souls, and the misconception that they 'are' horse-like >beings. One could easily imagine a gryphon with, say, a companion in the >form of a hawk. > Hope I haven't pissed anyone off! > > ___________________ -==UDIC==- ________________ > |\__________________\ McCaffrey's White Dragon |\________________\ > ||Why is he talking | || | > || to that | a.k.a. || Don't ask. | > || White Coconut? | Jake Gipple \|________________| > \|__________________| (360)-887-4779 LEMUR! > > In one of the Last Herald-Mage books (Magic's Pawn?) Savil is talking with either Starwind or Moondance, and she makes the distinction that while the Tayledras and Heralds are much the same, the Tayledras duty is to fix the land, and the Heralds' to serve the people. While they may serve the same Goddess, they serve her in different ways. So I doubt a Tayledras would be Chosen. (Watch, now she'll go and write a book about a Tayledras Herald and totally blow my argument! :>) The Shin'a'in, too-- they serve their Goddess by guarding the magical weapons or whatever it was that was hidden in the Plains. So they would probably not be Chosen. POSSIBLE SPOILER FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T READ THE STORMS BOOKS SO FAR. . . * * * * * * * * * I got the impression that at some point, Vkandis and Kalenel had been consorts. It is mentioned in the V&H books that there is a god with four facets (Rover, Guardian, Hunter, Guide) to go along with the Star-Eyed. And somewhere in Storm Warning, one of the Sun-priests mentions and old story about Vkandis having a consort. If this is true, read or listen to the song Sun and Shadow from Heralds, Harpers, & Havoc In it, *Sun*singer calls Shadowdancer "Star-eyed maid beyond compare." Am I grasping for a connection here? Does anyone else see it? -+AT+->--- Stormcloud Moon the Misty Maniac Prism wilsonj-+AT+-sjumusic.stjohns.edu Power! O blood, blood, blood! -Othello ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:00:33 +0100 (CET) From: Birgit Hanel To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: "Recycling" of herald's souls Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Tammy Harris wrote: > I've been wondering about this. What/where is your proof that > Grove- born Companions are new? Is it when Vanyel told Elspeth > (after he 'hijacked' Firesong's gate (WoC, I believe)) that Gwena was > Grove-born, and so lacked experience? > > Just curious > Tammy Yah, right, now I remember (not having my books at hand I have to rely on my fallible -haha- memory) that one. In WoFury Vanyel's ghost -or whatever- said something of the sort that Gwena is grove-born and thus has no human-based experience to act on. Btw, does anybody remember the names of Yfandes' children/foals(?) ? I haven't read MPrice yet (shame) and am wondering if they're mentionend ever after (and o.c. if there's any hint whether they were reborns or not). Blessings Birgit* ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 343 *********************************