MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 354 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: by Joshua Jones 2) Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: by Joshua Jones 3) Re: New Thread Re: Stefan by Starlight-+AT+-eden.rutgers.edu 4) re: All MOC's the same one?/On the nature of Companions by CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com 5) re: Gervase/hertasi by CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com 6) re: Stef by CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com 7) quickies by CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com 8) Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: by Korendil 9) A Misty Question by Korendil 10) Re:Mage Wars by "David J. De Riemacker" <103275.3267-+AT+-compuserve.com> 11) Re:Asbestos clad by "David J. De Riemacker" <103275.3267-+AT+-compuserve.com> 12) Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: by Rosario Holsen-Baker 13) Re: A Misty Question by Starlight-+AT+-eden.rutgers.edu 14) Stefan after Van's death by Starlight-+AT+-eden.rutgers.edu 15) Re: Gervase/hertasi/Stef by Heather Watson 16) Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: by Rosario Holsen-Baker 17) re: Stef by "Janet R. Wendorf" 18) Re: A Misty Question by "Janet R. Wendorf" 19) Re:Mage Wars by Alison Schiff 20) Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: by Korendil 21) Re: A Misty Question by Korendil 22) Re: Consorts by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 23) Re: Names/ Free Bards by STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 24) Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: by Rosario Holsen-Baker 25) Re: The Ones in Black by STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 11:17:43 -0800 From: Joshua Jones To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: Message-ID: <199602041917.LAA25599-+AT+-ix9.ix.netcom.com> At 03:37 AM 2/4/96 GMT, you wrote: >Shadow-Lover wrote: > But first Gyrfalcon wrote: >> >As for using me as a next possible target, I have my allies too. So I >> >wouldn't suggest it. >> >> Hey! Since we're at it, why not go for a total war Misty style against >> the MIW and Gyrefalcon? Kinda like the games Tarma, Daren, and Kero >> played? ;) >> > Sounds good! But we'll have to bi-locate, remember? Or put it >off...unles of course you're tired of the smell of wet cat... :) I think I can manage either one, and there's nothing like the smell of wet cat in the morning... ;) - Shadow-Lover *************************-E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com-************************ * - Life is like a game of bridge: If you can't get a good partner at least * * have a good hand... * * * * - Of all the brightly colored swirls of fantasy, reality is by far the * * darkest.. * * * ********************************-IRC: Hairenn-******************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 11:23:07 -0800 From: Joshua Jones To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: Message-ID: <199602041923.LAA27088-+AT+-ix9.ix.netcom.com> At 05:04 AM 2/4/96 GMT, you wrote: >>Shadow-Lover wrote: >> But first Gyrfalcon wrote: >>> >As for using me as a next possible target, I have my allies too. So I >>> >wouldn't suggest it. >>> >>> Hey! Since we're at it, why not go for a total war Misty style against >>> the MIW and Gyrefalcon? Kinda like the games Tarma, Daren, and Kero >>> played? ;) >>> >> Sounds good! But we'll have to bi-locate, remember? Or put it >>off...unles of course you're tired of the smell of wet cat... :) > > >Hmm..what if we have it grow out of mage-duel? You both call in allies, >and...well, think about it;> After seeing how creative Jaguar can be on her own, I don't even want to be on the other side of the battle field when she calls in her allies... No, I think we're better off fighting the mage-duel apart from a war.. Besides, to bring in allies would be against the rules of the duel... ;) Good thought though.. - Shadow-Lover *************************-E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com-************************ * - Life is like a game of bridge: If you can't get a good partner at least * * have a good hand... * * * * - Of all the brightly colored swirls of fantasy, reality is by far the * * darkest.. * * * ********************************-IRC: Hairenn-******************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 96 15:35:13 EST From: Starlight-+AT+-eden.rutgers.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: New Thread Re: Stefan Message-ID: < At 23:33 2/02/96 GMT, you wrote: < > All this talk about reincarnation has me thinking. Okay, when two < >people are actually the same person due to sharing a soul, they are < >still shaped by their environments and grow up to be oddly similar, yet < >still individual people, am I right? We can all agree on this? < >Otherwise, Vanyel wouldn't have been friends with Stefan for ages < >without NOTICING that he was exactly like Tylendel. < > But after death, those two (or more) personalities have to merge back < >into one -- in effect, the core soul, unshaped by experiences in the < >living world. Otherwise, there would be two "personalities" trying to < >be the same person roving around the afterlife. And that would just be < >odd. < > So my point is, the man that Vanyel ends up with is presumably < >NEITHER the Tylendel with whom he fell in love NOR the Stefan with whom < >he fell in love, but quite similar to both of them. Now, Stef had a < >rather rough childhood, which surely influenced his development and made < >him the man he became, in conjunction, naturally, with his soul. Does < >this mean that Stefan, as Vanyel knew him, is never to be seen again? < >That in fact death destroyed Stefan's identity and he lives on not as he < >was but only as he might have been? < < Okay...let me have a try at explaining my personal view of reincarnation etc.... < Tylendel is still around..._but_ the experiences you mentioned Stefan going < through have changed him so much as to be unrecognisable. Did anybody < understand what I mean? < so the soul that was 'Lendel and Stef is still the same, just has had more < experience and therefore must be changed by those experiences. More lessons < learned, more mistakes made, the soul in essence would have grown. Hard to < explain but _I_ know what I mean! *grin* < < > Isn't this kind of rough on poor Stef? Now, I'm not perfect, but I'd < >like to still be me after death, with all (or at least some) of the < >quirks, needs, and habits that I've develped over the years. Otherwise, < >I'd hardly be able to recognize myself. I would be, if you follow, < >someone that I never really was in life. < > Opinions, anyone? Did 'Lendel/Stef get gypped in the afterlife in < >payment for getting two gos at life proper? JUST WHO, EXACTLY, IS < >VANYEL SHACKING UP WITH OUT THERE IN THE FOREST OF SORROWS?? (Sorry < >about the grammer, but this has all been very hard on me. Maybe I need < >a nap.) < > < > < >HTH < > < Vanyel must be with Stef as the soul has had more experience than when it < was 'Lendel....seems the only sensible explanation to me....but I am willing < to listen to any other arguments. < < ^^^^^^^ |Don't despair| < ( O O ) < <| ? |> |Take heart| < $ \ ~ / $ < - |Life is to be lived| < < Kayla < < kayla-+AT+-vianet.net.au < Isn't he with Stefen cause in WFury, when you see Vanyel, you also see Stefen giving the talk to Skif and his girlfriend, sorry can't remember her name. I always seem to be missing the book that I need at home. ************************************************ * Contact Starlight at debeng-+AT+-eden.rutgers.edu * ************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:29:04 -0500 From: CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: All MOC's the same one?/On the nature of Companions Message-ID: <960204162904_213988790-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> Jerry Cullingford said that if all the MOC's were the same spirit, "that implies a distateful level of deception if the MO survived - and generally as well, now I come to think of it." True, but the Companions have been hiding a great deal about themselves, for a very long time. And with good cause. If you think about it, you know that there can only be as many Heralds as there are Companions. Now, I'm assuming that each Herald, when he/she dies, is offered a choice by the Shadow-Lover, to go on to the Havens to rest, or to become a Companion and defend Valdemar in a new way. (or in Vanyel's case, to defend Valdemar from the North -- where most of Ma'ar's descendents would probably be -- by haunting a forest.) Now, some Heralds have probably chosen the Havens. But some have chosen to become Companions. (It may be, in fact, that some choose to rest awhile and then become Companions.) Remember that most Companions do not survive their Heralds for very long. That means that _if_ a soul is only a Companion once, then they can only be Companion to a single Herald. In that case, the law of diminishing returns would start to kick in, and the number of Heralds in Valdemar would be gradually decreasing. But the observed reality is that the number of Heralds in Valdemar is _increasing_. So, either a lot of new souls are becoming Companions, or a Herald can be a Companion many times. Now, I feel that most Heralds would choose to become Companions almost right away -- after all, when they die they _know_ the people whose lives they are going to be improving as Companions. But that only increases the need for secrecy. It would be very hard on a former friend or lover to meet a foal and know that this immature being is someone they knew for years in a different form. I suspect that it is the Companions who are on the "first" time around who let their Chosen pick a new name for them. A distasteful level of secrecy? Yes, but a necessary one if the number of Heralds is to increase. And when it comes to a choice between duty to Valdemar and duty to loved ones, a Herald chooses duty to Valdemar. After all, chances are pretty good that the people involved are also Heralds, and you can apologize once they become Companions too. The MOC is Groveborn, most likely because the Groveborn companions are guardian spirits first, and Companions second, and less susceptible to the grief which causes most Companions to pine away when their Heralds die. The additional benefits of endurance, etc., are probably the factors which determine when a potential Herald is going to require a Groveborn companion, though, which is why Elspeth got Gwena. I am of the opinion that the MOC is most probably the same guardian spirit each time, and is senior to the other Companions by virtue of age as well as nature. The MOC has to be able to Chose people who might not be the best Heralds, but are exactly the right people for the job of MO. Shavri was not a particularly good Herald. She cared less for Valdemar than she did for Randale. Most of the time, the Companions seem to be looking for "the caring heart", which cares for everyone who needs help, selflessly. To me that implies that most Companions _cannot_ Chose someone who is unsuited to be a Herald. But the MOC can. _And when both MO and MOC are killed at the same time the new MOC *must* Choose the person who is best suited to the situation._ I don't think a brand new soul is capable of understanding the personalities involved in whatever crisis got the last MOC killed to Choose wisely. Any thoughts? I'm always willing to have my mind changed. Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:28:35 -0500 From: CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Gervase/hertasi Message-ID: <960204162834_213988709-+AT+-emout10.mail.aol.com> HTH said: "I still maintain until proven definitively wrong that Gervase was A LIZARD." Nope. Sorry. According to Kethry, (Oathbound p.107) Gervase was "one of the _hertasi_ folk that still live in the Pelagir Hills. _Hertasi_ once were tree-lizards long, long ago, until magic changed them. Like humans, they can be of any nature; good or bad, kind or cruel, giving or selfish." So he was a hertasi; remember, Kethry was telling a story that had been told to her by her mentor at the White Winds school where she trained, and we can pretty safely assume that it is close to Gervase's own account, as passed down to each apprentice. Now, Mat protested that Oathbound and WoFury were in contradiction about the founding of the White Winds school, and I'm inclined to agree. Kethry says (Obd p. 111) that Gervase became apprentice to "Cinsley of White Winds," while Firesong says (WoFury p.217 hb) "White Winds is a good solid school...It was founded by a _hertasi_ mage." I can think oftwo explanations for the discrepancy. The first is that, prior to Gervase's time, White Wind mages did not form schools, but rather took on single apprentices. It may have been Gervase who brought the White Wind mages together to form a single pool of power, or who founded White Wind enclaves for the education of apprentices. Alternately, it may just be a minor miscommunication. Until Gervase became a White Winds mage, the hertasi folk did not know of the existence of the White Winds school, and until the hertasi told the Tayledras about Gervase, they, too, were unaware of the existence of White Winds, and the confusion arose. (Incidentally, I think that the tale passed from hertasi to Tayledras to Shin'a'in, which is why Tarma knew about Gervase before Kethry told the story to the clan.) Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:29:10 -0500 From: CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Stef Message-ID: <960204162909_213988860-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> HTH asked just who was "shacking up" in Sorrows with Vanyel. Ash said he thought that the spirits didn't have memories, but others, Tayla and Kayla at least, have pointed out that the spirit we meet does seem to remember things, although the time spent as Stef is what remains strongest. Essentially, I agree. There is a single soul, Tylendel, who -- having made the worst mistake of his life finds himself with the Shadowlover. He rests in the Havens for a year and a bit, until he has healed, and then chooses to go back as a child, knowing that unless he does so, Vanyel will die bereft of all support. (He may even have been "groveborn", the old woman who had him as a child wasn't his mother, but that's a different issue.) He does this, incidentally, aware that if Vanyel dies when Foresight indicates that he will, Tylendel/Stef will have to spend _decades_ of life without having a lifebonded mate. And if that isn't atonement, I'd hate to know what is. So, he is reborn (and Vanyel loses the sense of having Tylendel watching over him -- MPromise p. 238 -- and has to grow up all over again. But he keeps the old memories. Moondance detected them -- MPrice p. 188 -- but as Stef, he does not have conscious access to them. After Vanyel is killed, Stef manages to go on until his time is up, and at that point, joins Vanyel in Sorrows, but with access to _all_ of the memories of both Tylendel and Stef. But he and Vanyel tend to use the name "Stef" because it is the one which they used to each other longest. (and the one with the least pain attached to it.) But Stef's appearance changes, because his spirit remembers wearing both bodies. (Like Yfandes, who is sometimes horse shaped and sometimes a lady.) Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:28:42 -0500 From: CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: quickies Message-ID: <960204162842_213988925-+AT+-emout08.mail.aol.com> Re: The Star-eyed: HTH said: "the goddess may be one goddess..." and Tammy responded, "Say what? Where does this come from?" The strongest indication is when she meets Kethry and tells her that She is just a different aspect of Kethry's goddess. Re: Tayledras going east at the end of the Mage Wars. Khenta asked for an explanation of why the eastern lands don't seem as bad off as the western lands if the damage was circular. I think it *was* just as bad, but the Tayledras have been cleansing it for two millenia, which has been enough time for other people to move in. re: Consorts. I expect that the UK makes Queens have consorts is because the crown descends to a male unless there are no sons. Having the husband be a Prince Consort makes it very clear who reigns by right of blood. re: Tiger Burning Bright. I liked it. Started a little slow, but it got better. re: magewar. Shadow lover said "why not go for a total war, Misty style?" Because it would infringe on the original purpose of the listserv. Because it would aggravate the people who get this as a digest, or have small mailboxes. Because it might cross the line from discussion to MUD or MUSH, or some similar thing, which might bring down the wrath of the lawyers, not to mention Misty. Because this is not the right forum for that particular kind of play. Please, if you intend to engage in a continuation/explansion of the magewar, take it private. re: morals in society. I think that most people have a sense of right and wrong. What is missing among some groups is the sense that most people prefer not to do the wrong thing. I.E., if you think that everyone is playing by rules that say "do unto others before they do unto you," and you want to survive, you will adapt your behavior to that principle. If you believe that most people in the world are basically good, and will "do unto others as they would like others to do unto them," then you will approach life with the expectation of courtesy being met with courtesy and honesty with honesty. I find that when I am out dealing with other people, my worldview is fairly benign. Most people I meet are basically pretty nice, and accord me the same respect which I give them. If I am watching a lot of TV, or getting my images from movies, it makes me more pessimistic about other people's motivations. Of the two attitudes, I prefer the former. I make more friends that way. Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:39:19 -0600 From: Korendil To: "Misty List" Subject: Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: Message-ID: <199602042239.QAA16030-+AT+-ns.cent.com> >> Hey! Since we're at it, why not go for a total war Misty style against >> the MIW and Gyrefalcon? Kinda like the games Tarma, Daren, and Kero >> played? ;) :( You forgot KIng Warrl! hmm...speaking of that, we're gonna need a neutral-person, unless someone can conjure Warrl up;> And some raw meat...;> Maybe you'll be Switzerland, Mel? Or maybe Shadow-Lover...would be appropriate. And one of the rules will HAVE to be no Cold Iron. ************ As I find I have no ASCII skill, I'm gonna do a hypercube instead... Till then: Korendil -+AT+- undermac ; rubin-+AT+-cent.com ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:43:09 -0600 From: Korendil To: "Misty List" Subject: A Misty Question Message-ID: <199602042243.QAA16182-+AT+-ns.cent.com> If you had a friends who was having a Bar Mitzvah...a friend you're sick of lending Misty books to..and a $150 budget...which books would I..erm..you get him? He's already read Gryphon, LHM, V&H, ...erm..all the Velgarth, and all 1 and 2 of Bedlam. THat does NOT Mean we should veto those, since (as all devotees like to) he would like to reread...unlike all ym other recent queries...some answers, please?;> ************ As I find I have no ASCII skill, I'm gonna do a hypercube instead... Till then: Korendil -+AT+- undermac ; rubin-+AT+-cent.com ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: 04 Feb 96 17:53:11 EST From: "David J. De Riemacker" <103275.3267-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk" Subject: Re:Mage Wars Message-ID: <960204225310_103275.3267_IHH58-2-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Stormcloud wrote: >Storm ducks magebolts to request that Jaguar and the Shadow-lover t>ake this off-list to private e-mail. This is a polite request, not >a hostile one, I just wish to point out that I have to wade through your >mage-war messages every morning. > Well, I quite enjoy the show myself. You guys are_really good_ Never mind, then. I'd like to watch, too. I'm 103275,3267-+AT+-compuserve.com,I guess. I only need to use the numbers within CS. I thind the compuserve.com needs to be used if you're not in CS. Just my two grubby coppers, Whiteraven ------------------------------ Date: 04 Feb 96 17:53:07 EST From: "David J. De Riemacker" <103275.3267-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk" Subject: Re:Asbestos clad Message-ID: <960204225306_103275.3267_IHH58-1-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> >So, come and get me, I'm aspestos clad (if the flames don't kill me the >lung disease will) Heyla, EE. Just use chrysotile asbestos. It doesn't cause cancer unless you work in the mines and smoke two packs a day. Amphibole asbestos is a lot worse. It causes cancer all by itself. There, my course in Geology has finally come to good use, Whiteraven ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 18:14:08 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: Message-ID: Shadow-Lover wrote: > >>Shadow-Lover wrote: > >> But first Gyrfalcon wrote: > >>> >As for using me as a next possible target, I have my allies too. So I > >>> >wouldn't suggest it. > >>> > >>> Hey! Since we're at it, why not go for a total war Misty style against > >>> the MIW and Gyrefalcon? Kinda like the games Tarma, Daren, and Kero > >>> played? ;) > >>> > >> Sounds good! But we'll have to bi-locate, remember? Or put it > >>off...unles of course you're tired of the smell of wet cat... :) > > > >Hmm..what if we have it grow out of mage-duel? You both call in allies, > >and...well, think about it;> > > After seeing how creative Jaguar can be on her own, I don't even want to be > on the other side of the battle field when she calls in her allies... No, I > think we're better off fighting the mage-duel apart from a war.. Besides, > to bring in allies would be against the rules of the duel... ;) Good > thought though.. > Thank you! *Jaguar ducks her head, blushing* True, and eventually we're (everyone on list involved in this little group thing) going to have to figure out what these groups are. We know sort of who the Men IN White are, but the rest are rather ambiguous. |--------------<>----------------| | Sure. Fine. Whatever. | |----------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 96 18:56:06 EST From: Starlight-+AT+-eden.rutgers.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A Misty Question Message-ID: Did he like the Bedlam ones with the elves in the modern world? If he did, I would recommend the Serrated Edge series or maybe books by Josepha Sherman or Mark Shepherd. ************************************************ * Contact Starlight at debeng-+AT+-eden.rutgers.edu * ************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 96 19:09:46 EST From: Starlight-+AT+-eden.rutgers.edu To: lackeymail:;-+AT+-eden.rutgers.edu Subject: Stefan after Van's death Message-ID: Hi, I was just wondering, if anyone has answered this question yet: If Stefan and Vanyel were lifebonded, how did Stefan survive after Vanyel's death? He wasn't bonded to anyone else like Vanyel was at that time. I don't have MPrice with me, and I can't remember if it said. Can someone please email me the answer? ************************************************ * Contact Starlight at debeng-+AT+-eden.rutgers.edu * ************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 18:28:29 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Gervase/hertasi/Stef Message-ID: <04FEB96.19952770.0159.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Darn it, Cindy, I guess you're right about Gervase. And I had such a good argument, too.... I hate it when facts get in my way And thanks for the post on the Stefan situation. It made more sense to me than any other answer I'd gotten -- and I'd been grilling all kinds of people lately, not just on this list. Most people ended up telling me that they understood it perfectly well, but they couldn't explain it to me. Which obviously didn't help me! Unfortunately, I accidentally erased the message, and I was going to forward it to a friend. Can you, or anyone else who still has that sitting around, (it was under Re: Stef) send me a copy? My e-mail is r618%nemomus.bitnet-+AT+-academic.nemostate.edu Yeah, I know it's a killer of an address -- worse than a Rethwellan name! Thanks. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 19:54:50 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, Korendil wrote: > :( You forgot KIng Warrl! hmm...speaking of that, we're gonna need a > neutral-person, unless someone can conjure Warrl up;> And some raw > meat...;> Maybe you'll be Switzerland, Mel? Or maybe Shadow-Lover...would > be appropriate. And one of the rules will HAVE to be no Cold Iron. > Since when? Your cousins seem to be able to fight against Cold Iron well enough! If we're going to do this, I suggest we take it off the list (hmm.... is that like suggesting we take a barfight outside?), since Milady Mel might get irked. |--------------<>----------------| | Sure. Fine. Whatever. | |----------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:21:48 -0500 From: "Janet R. Wendorf" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Stef Message-ID: <9602050227.AA12676-+AT+-enterprise.udayton.edu> Cindy wrote: > HTH asked just who was "shacking up" in Sorrows with Vanyel. Ash said he > thought that the spirits didn't have memories, but others, Tayla and Kayla at > least, have pointed out that the spirit we meet does seem to remember things, > although the time spent as Stef is what remains strongest. > > Essentially, I agree. There is a single soul, Tylendel, who -- having made > the worst mistake of his life finds himself with the Shadowlover. He rests > in the Havens for a year and a bit, until he has healed, and then chooses to > go back as a child, knowing that unless he does so, Vanyel will die bereft of > all support. (He may even have been "groveborn", the old woman who had him > as a child wasn't his mother, but that's a different issue.) He does this, > incidentally, aware that if Vanyel dies when Foresight indicates that he > will, Tylendel/Stef will have to spend _decades_ of life without having a > lifebonded mate. And if that isn't atonement, I'd hate to know what is. So, > he is reborn (and Vanyel loses the sense of having Tylendel watching over him > -- MPromise p. 238 -- and has to grow up all over again. But he keeps the > old memories. Moondance detected them -- MPrice p. 188 -- but as Stef, he > does not have conscious access to them. After Vanyel is killed, Stef manages > to go on until his time is up, and at that point, joins Vanyel in Sorrows, > but with access to _all_ of the memories of both Tylendel and Stef. But he > and Vanyel tend to use the name "Stef" because it is the one which they used > to each other longest. (and the one with the least pain attached to it.) > But Stef's appearance changes, because his spirit remembers wearing both > bodies. (Like Yfandes, who is sometimes horse shaped and sometimes a lady.) > I agree that Stef is the reincarnation of Tylendel, but it must have been a really strange experience to change from one person into another. I mean, didn't Vanyel remember his relationship with Tylendel as one thing and then think of his relationship with Stef as different. Especially after the dream in which Tylendel came to him and told him he wasn't doing anything wrong. How would he handle all of a sudden having two people "squished" into one. It would be even harder on the person it was happening to, Stef. The memroies are still there, but I think that the person in the forest of sorrows is only Stef. Is there any evidence that both personalities are there. When Vanyel does the modified gate spell, doesn't he say something along of the lines of "what I figured out, you can too." Tylendel would still be a mage and would have been involved in this, I imagine. I do not think that Stef actually died, but was somehow changed, so that it was only him and not Tylendel also. Janet ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:21:49 -0500 From: "Janet R. Wendorf" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A Misty Question Message-ID: <9602050227.AA12673-+AT+-enterprise.udayton.edu> Korendil wrote: > If you had a friends who was having a Bar Mitzvah...a friend you're sick > of lending Misty books to..and a $150 budget...which books would > I..erm..you get him? He's already read Gryphon, LHM, V&H, ...erm..all the > Velgarth, and all 1 and 2 of Bedlam. THat does NOT Mean we should veto > those, since (as all devotees like to) he would like to reread...unlike > all ym other recent queries...some answers, please?;> I would suggest the Mage Winds books, in Hardcover. The pictures add a very classy touch. I recomended Mage Winds not because I like it bettter, but because all the books are out, so you would no be "obligating" him to buy the rest of books in the series. I think that a good gift is something you would not buy for yourself, but would love to own. If he is the type to read books, but not to buy them, I think he needs to be "addicted" to it. Of course you could always get the books with your "namesake" and make the gift seem more personal. Just some thoughts. Janet ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:34:59 -0500 (EST) From: Alison Schiff To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Mage Wars Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Feb 1996, David J. De Riemacker wrote: > Stormcloud wrote: > > >Storm ducks magebolts to request that Jaguar and the Shadow-lover > t>ake this off-list to private e-mail. This is a polite request, not > >a hostile one, I just wish to point out that I have to wade through your > >mage-war messages every morning. > > > I don't know now whether or not you guys are going to take this private, but if you do, let me watch too! My addy is: schiff-+AT+-trenton.edu thanx! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:55:22 -0600 From: Korendil To: "Misty List" Subject: Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: Message-ID: <199602050355.VAA26105-+AT+-ns.cent.com> > Since when? Your cousins seem to be able to fight against Cold >Iron well enough! > Ahem...you need to take a *quick* look at Summoned to Tourney...maybe the area where Kory is imprisoned by Cold Iron and practically dies? Or maybe C.J. Cherryh's Trees of Swords and Jewels? Trust me...we cannot STAND the substance... > If we're going to do this, I suggest we take it off the list >(hmm.... is that like suggesting we take a barfight outside?), since >Milady Mel might get irked. Hmm...that would mean we'll need another list, as I will NOT improvise on IRC...;>...Oh Meeeeeeelllllllll?;> ************ As I find I have no ASCII skill, I'm gonna do a hypercube instead... Till then: Korendil -+AT+- undermac ; rubin-+AT+-cent.com ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:58:13 -0600 From: Korendil To: "Misty List" Subject: Re: A Misty Question Message-ID: <199602050358.VAA26132-+AT+-ns.cent.com> >I would suggest the Mage Winds books, in Hardcover. The pictures >add a very classy touch. I recomended Mage Winds not because I like >it bettter, but because all the books are out, so you would no be >"obligating" him to buy the rest of books in the series. I think that >a good gift is something you would not buy for yourself, but would >love to own. If he is the type to read books, but not to buy them, I >think he needs to be "addicted" to it. Of course you could always get the >books with your "namesake" and make the gift seem more personal. > Just some thoughts. > Well, see, the prob is that I can't (as I wish) buy him all 41 , yet he has already read the ones with my namesake, and has seen WInds...wait..maybe I'll just get him all Velgarth ones, in hardcover when possible? SUggestion? Please? We DO have till the 24, but... ************ As I find I have no ASCII skill, I'm gonna do a hypercube instead... Till then: Korendil -+AT+- undermac ; rubin-+AT+-cent.com ***************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 10:09:45 GMT From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Consorts Message-ID: <9602051009.AA21778-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> > wrong about UK monarchy...Queen Elizabeth was married before she ascended > the throne...already had 2 kids when she became queen....UK monarchy has > diff rules....spouse of queen is always consort...spouse of king is always > queen...sexist innit?????? No she wasn't, and no she didn't; she was 18 when she came to the throne, and married and had children afterwards. Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 10:50:22 GMT From: STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Names/ Free Bards Message-ID: <23DA05A7CB6-+AT+-EXCALIBUR.MMU.AC.UK> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:42:29 GMT Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk From: Stormcloud To: 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Names/ Free Bards 2nd Feb Stormcloud writes:- "A Cast of Corbies" fits in somewhere between "The Robin and the Kestrel" and "The Eagle and the Nightingale". It's pretty good. You should read it! -+AT+->--- Stormcloud Moon the Misty Maniac Prism wilsonj-+AT+-sjumusic.stjohns.edu Power! O blood, blood, blood! -Othello ----------------------------------------------------- Thanks Stormy, I've already read it. I thought you meant that there had been another book in the "Bardic Voices " series, because according to my copy of "Cast Of Corbies" It's a spin off series. I agree though [ I haven't read it for a while] from what I remember it is v. good. I see you shiver in antici....pation Jason ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 06:06:40 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Jaguar Magewar: Was Re: YKYBRTMMLW: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Feb 1996, Korendil wrote: > > Since when? Your cousins seem to be able to fight against Cold > >Iron well enough! > > > > Ahem...you need to take a *quick* look at Summoned to Tourney...maybe the > area where Kory is imprisoned by Cold Iron and practically dies? Or maybe > C.J. Cherryh's Trees of Swords and Jewels? Trust me...we cannot STAND the > substance... > Ahem...maybe you need to take another look at Knoghts of Ghosts and Shadows in the first battle against Perenor...I believe you threw a trash can lid at him? Or was that your evil twin? And the Serra elves can stand it well enough to fight against it... |--------------<>----------------| | Sure. Fine. Whatever. | |----------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 11:15:39 GMT From: STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Ones in Black Message-ID: <23E0C5F6BBC-+AT+-EXCALIBUR.MMU.AC.UK> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:03:32 GMT Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk From: "Katherine M. Brielmaier" To: 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk Subject: The Ones in Black Sat 3rd Feb Katherine wrote:- *Suddenly ringing hoofbeats are heard in the distance. Soon, silhouetted against the setting sun, a horse and rider canter up and come to halt next to the hapless Jason. The rider dismounts, and appears to be wearing a heavy coat, boots, thick mittens, scarf and woolen hat, all in black [don't laugh, guys, it was 30 degrees below zero this morning!]. Advancing towards Jason, the rider unwraps all the gear, revealing a young woman, tall and thin, with short red hair and hazel eyes.* "Take heart, Jason. I have come to join The Ones In Black and help you in your fight." So how about it? Kaatje ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ke'chara you are most welcome. I have been alone to long, let us raise The Ones In Black back to the heights they were destined to hold. The call rings out:- " Who will join us! Let the servants of the Goddess be joined once more" Zhai'helleva For now I see you shiver in antici....pation Jason ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 354 *********************************