MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 358 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: The Ones in Black by STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 2) Re: The Ones in Black by STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 3) Re: All MOC's the same one?/On the nature of Companions by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 4) ADMIN: Why a mailing list is not like a newsgroup. by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 5) Re: THE ONES IN BLACK by Rosario Holsen-Baker 6) Re: bits and pieces by STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 7) Re: ADMIN: Why a mailing list is not like a newsgroup. by STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 8) Re: ADMIN: Why a mailing list is not like a newsgroup. by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 9) Re: Morals (was Life/Love bonds) by Becky Anne Christensen 10) Re: Consorts by Tammy Harris 11) Re: bits and pieces by Alison Schiff 12) Re: Symbs and lifebonds differences. by "Sanna Koulu" 13) Re: bits and pieces by "Icewolf " 14) Morals (was Life/Love bonds) by Stormcloud 15) Re: New Thread Re: Stefan by Ashke 16) Re: Consorts by EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org 17) Who's up there in Sorrows by Stormcloud 18) Re[2]: ADMIN: Why a mailing list is not like a newsgroup. by Stormcloud 19) SF authors (was Symbs and lifebonds differences) by Marissa K Lingen 20) Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines by Mat Timmerman 21) Re: Nit pick, SR spoilers (well, maybe) by Mat Timmerman 22) Re: Non-Human Heralds by Korendil ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:47:49 GMT From: STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Ones in Black Message-ID: <25495D21CD2-+AT+-EXCALIBUR.MMU.AC.UK> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 06:14:14 GMT Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk From: "Janet R. Wendorf" To: 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: The Ones in Black Jason wrote: > >EXQUEEEZE ME ! I don't remember being used as a floor mop. >Does this mean that I am the only remaining One In Black? >Say it ain't so!!!! >To all the other groups Please don't wipe me out :- > Shannsu[sp???] [translation :- peace: Jennifer Roberson >The Cheysuli Chronicals] > >I see you shiver in antici....pation >Jason [ sobbing at being left alone] :( > The thick foliage of the forest will not get in my way. Persued as I am by my foes, I manage to lose them, so that I may join the valiant Ones in Black. My old clothes tattered beyond recognition, I don the black clothes that magically appeared. The group shall not unravel, while I am still here. Janet ******************************************************************************* "Imagination is the only Weapon Against Reality" ******************************************************************************* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wendorjr-+AT+-elwood.udayton.edu<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wendorjr-+AT+-saber.udayton.edu<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ******************************************************************************* Janet , thank you for coming to join us. Lead your foes to us and they shall never trouble you again. Zhai'helleva for now I see you shiver in antici....pation Jason[OIB] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:59:08 GMT From: STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Ones in Black Message-ID: <254C67E5DEF-+AT+-EXCALIBUR.MMU.AC.UK> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 06:39:24 GMT Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk From: Stormcloud To: 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: The Ones in Black >***************************** _NICE_ entrance, elf. I've decided if you can't beat them, join them. And since black is my favorite colour. . . . The Tayledras Adept Stormcloud steps forward. His eyes are gray, his hair shining white as the breeze stirs it, his skin almost as pale. The black silks he wears, while simple for a mage, are none- theless stunning against his white skin. At his side is a huge kyree, and wheeling above is a beautiful peregrine falcon. :I greet you. May I be of any service?: -+AT+->--- Stormcloud Moon the Misty Maniac Prism wilsonj-+AT+-sjumusic.stjohns.edu Power! O blood, blood, blood! -Othello ----------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome Stormcloud, With an Elf and now a Tayledras adept amongst our ranks we are truely a group who can serve the Goddess in many ways[ if this means distroying the MIW so be it] I see you shiver in antici....pation Jason[OIB] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:27:34 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: All MOC's the same one?/On the nature of Companions Message-ID: <9602061027.AA24979-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> Cindy writes: > > Jerry Cullingford said that if all the MOC's were the same spirit, "that > implies a distateful level of deception if the MO survived - and generally as > well, now I come to think of it." > > True, but the Companions have been hiding a great deal about themselves, for > a very long time. And with good cause. Correct - but that's mainly because they don't want to reveal the reincarnation aspect, and it's omission, rather than active lying.. > If you think about it, you know that > there can only be as many Heralds as there are Companions. Also correct :-). [snip] > So, either a lot of new souls are becoming Companions, or a Herald can be a > Companion many times. A bit of both, I suspect - I think there's supporting evidence for the 'many times' bit somewhere in one of the books. There's definately evidence for new, non-reincarnated companions in the early days. > Now, I feel that most Heralds would choose to become Companions almost right > away -- after all, when they die they _know_ the people whose lives they are > going to be improving as Companions. But that only increases the need for > secrecy. [snip] Maybe; I tend to assume (without any evidence either way) that they get time off before coming back - All the companions we can identify (like Sa[y]vil) are back after a generation or several, which strikes me as sensible and kinder - better for the Companion - no stress in hiding from people who knew you, no temptations/distractions from your new chosen. > A distasteful level of secrecy? Yes, but a necessary one if the number of > Heralds is to increase. Non-sequitur, I think - the supply of companions *isn't* limited to reincarnated heralds, although the secrecy makes sense for encouraging self-reliance. [snip] > _And when both MO and MOC are killed at the same time the new MOC *must* > Choose the person who is best suited to the situation._ I don't think a > brand new soul is capable of understanding the personalities involved in > whatever crisis got the last MOC killed to Choose wisely. > Any thoughts? I'm always willing to have my mind changed. So they can discuss it before the new one arrives :-). The heralds already know that the MOC is special - given that he's immortal, it wouldn't be too much more unusual if he came back again - there's no real reason to hide it - and hiding it would require active deception, not just keeping quiet about the facts. And (unless there's only one spirit capable of doing the job) *it doesn't achieve anything to recycle the same one*, since presumably there's nothing to stop a new MOC chatting with the old one, along the lines of shamen/kalenedral. Maybe we'll find out more in later books - at the moment both theories fit the available facts :-). -Jerry (P.S. - yes, I'm HTMLifying the reviews (slowly :-) ) - which email address do you prefer?) -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 11:57:39 GMT From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey Subject: ADMIN: Why a mailing list is not like a newsgroup. Message-ID: <9602061157.AA19356-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Let me explain, for the benefit of those who may not have thought about this, why a mailing list is not like a newsgroup. Consider a message sent to a newsgroup. Now consider a message sent to a mailing list. 1) The article sent to a newsgroup is sent once to any one site. The article sent to the mailing list may be sent multiple times to a site if there are multiple subscriptions from that site. 2) The newsgroup does not (typically) have a digest format; that is, every article sent to that newsgroup appears separately. The mailing list may well have a digest format, which is more convenient for many people, as it bundles several messages into one larger one, thereby cutting down on the number of mail messages in their in-box. 3) There are many widely available news-readers which will allow you to select messages to read based on their content or their authorship. There are also many ways of killing an article (never seeing it at all) based on content or authorship. Tools such as this for mail are not so widely available, nor are they as easy to use. Deleting a message unread is only feasible for those members of the mailing list who do not receive the digest format (see above). 4) There is no such thing as a "news quota". If a newsgroup is particularly busy, then articles may only be kept for a few days, but there will not be any per-user restriction. Most establishments do have some form of mail quota (even if it is only enforced by running out of space on the disk :)) For those of you who are wondering "what is she wittering about?", this is a polite request to keep the fluff level down a bit. (Yes, I do have near-infinite patience. Only near-infinite, though.) It is not possible for many people to delete the messages unread. It is not easy for many people to skip over them. I am also keeping a wary eye on those people who want to role-play on list. "Wary" because the last thing I want is for the list to vanish one day because Misty's lawyer has decided that there are copyright implications. (Yes, I am probably being paranoid. However, since this machine is also the major hub for my business, I do have some justification for my paranoia.) Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:19:19 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: THE ONES IN BLACK Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Feb 1996 Dalisair3-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > (Looking around nervously for more applications.) ONE!! ONLY ONE!!! No, you got more. And I'm sorry, I mistakenly put the foundership of the Ones in Black on Declan (I knew it started with a "d" I just didn't know who...). Though I was expecting Jason to correct me if I was wrong... > > By the way have I missed the Hawkbrother joke list? > You did,but (hint, hint!) that doesn't mean you can't contribute and I can post it later! :) |--------------<>----------------| | Sure. Fine. Whatever. | |----------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:22:45 GMT From: STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: bits and pieces Message-ID: <2572AF048C0-+AT+-EXCALIBUR.MMU.AC.UK> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 02:17:17 GMT Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk From: Becky Anne Christensen To: 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: bits and pieces > I don't know either, does anyone else know why everything seems to come at different times? Sometimes it takes 20 minutes, other times it takes hours. (:*BECKY*:) +--------------------+ |BLACK KNIGHT | | I'm invincible! | |KING ARTHUR | | You're a looney.| +--------------------+ -------------------------------------------------------------------- I've just had the same problem, yesterday I checked my mail and some things didn't make sense because there were snippets of other mailings in them that I hadn't seen. Today I came in and there was mail from 3 days ago in my new mail file. Am I caught up in a time distortion here or what?? I see you shiver in antici....pation Jason[OIB] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:35:20 GMT From: STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ADMIN: Why a mailing list is not like a newsgroup. Message-ID: <25760F96D09-+AT+-EXCALIBUR.MMU.AC.UK> I am also keeping a wary eye on those people who want to role-play on list. "Wary" because the last thing I want is for the list to vanish one day because Misty's lawyer has decided that there are copyright implications. (Yes, I am probably being paranoid. However, since this machine is also the major hub for my business, I do have some justification for my paranoia.) Mel. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Sorry if we are causing you grief Mel.I think the "groups"[ i.e. Cat People, MIW,OIB, LIG etc.] are just a progression from the persona roles taken up by those who get Q.O. I think I speak for everyone on this list when I say that we would never want this list to be shut down. Or have legal proceedings set in motion against you or anyone else. As I see it the groups are just a bit of fun which breaks up the serious side of the list ie the discussion of Mistys' work. The groups in a way bring us closer together with each other and to Velgarth its' self [IMHO] < steps down from platform> I see you shiver in antici...pation Jason[OIB] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:44:52 GMT From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ADMIN: Why a mailing list is not like a newsgroup. Message-ID: <9602061344.AA24220-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Jason said: > Sorry if we are causing you grief Mel.I think the "groups"[ i.e. Cat > People, MIW,OIB, LIG etc.] are just a progression from the persona > roles taken up by those who get Q.O. I think I speak for everyone > on this list when I say that we would never want this list to be shut > down. Or have legal proceedings set in motion against you or > anyone else. As I see it the groups are just a bit of fun which > breaks up the serious side of the list ie the discussion of Mistys' > work. The groups in a way bring us closer together with each other > and to Velgarth its' self [IMHO] Oh, I agree; I can see why people would _want_ to do it. The difference between here and QO, though, is that for QO I'd guess you have to sign something saying what's what (a release form, or similar), which I can't enforce here at all ... Don't panic. I haven't had anyone trying to break the door down yet. *grin* Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 06:58:53 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Morals (was Life/Love bonds) Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Winterwind wrote: > On Mon. 2/5/96, Declan wrote: > >But then there are people that take > >morals too far, such as the example Khenta gave. Those people who > >condemn homosexuals (both genders) as sick and messed up in the head > >are the kind of people who take those morals too far. > >Declan > > > Sigh. O.K. > I don't think it's so much that people have too many morals as > that they apply them wrong. I was born and raised a Christian, > and yes, I still am one. Yet, most "Christian" morals say that > homosexuality is wrong. I say that's a load of crap, that I really > don't care who a person loves, that it's the love that matters. Most > "Christian" morals say that other religions are demon work. Hey, I > *enjoyed* the Di Tregarde books, and I *enjoyed* MZB's "Mists of > Avalon" and I *enjoy* works that tell me more about other religions - > and it's hardly my place to condemn them. I could go on ... > > Zhai'elleva, > Winterwind Okay, I'll jump into this too. I am a Christian, and I do have morals that I live by. I don't condemn homosexuals at all, as a matter of fact I have a good friend that is a homosexual, and one teacher, both of whom are very good wonderful people. I don't support homosexuality, but I don't think they are sick or should be locked away. It's a personal decision, just like everything else we do. I also don't think reading fantasy oe sci-fi books with other religions is sipposed to be wrong if you are a Christian. They aren't real. And you can't just say that you won't read anything that isn't a pure christian book. Then you would be ignorant to everything else, and next time you're in a debate with someone about religion, you'd probably lose. Anyways, most of the people that go around condemning people aren't doing the right thing, maybe a lot of them aren't even really christians, they just clain to be. (:*BECKY*:) +--------------------+ |BLACK KNIGHT | | I'm invincible! | |KING ARTHUR | | You're a looney.| +--------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 10:09:29 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Consorts Message-ID: <11E95230EFA-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> On Tue, Feb 2, Kaatje wrote: > >It never occurred to me that Daren could have equal status with Selenay. > >And just because he's a Consort, that does *not* means he's a co-ruler. > >>From what I understand, in a Monarchy ("one ruler"), there can only be one > >person who is the head of state. This means that Daren cannot rule, even > >though he is a Herald. No matter which way you cut it, he's not the > >Monarch, because he's not of the royal line of Valdemar. And Colette (Gjuka) replied: > Not true....the married partner is only a consort if he is not a herald. If > he/she is a Herald, they can be King or Queen beside their spouse...am > pretty sure i remember someplace that mentions this, and will try to find > it so i can post a direct quote. Exactly. I think it's in AoQ, when someone (?) is explaining to Talia what the Queen's options are, since Elspeth had not yet been Chosen. They mention either salvaging Elspeth, naming someone else with the right blood (i.e. Jeri or Kris), or Selenay remarrying. Here, they say that only if her husband is Chosen can he be co-ruler. I think there is also mention of this when Talia is told the story of Selenay's first husband's treachery, and when Selenay is considering Alessander's proposal of marriage for Elspeth and Ancar. (Don't you just love nice, specific quotes?) Just my $0.02 Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 11:30:35 -0500 (EST) From: Alison Schiff To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: bits and pieces Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Janet R. Wendorf wrote: > > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 20:33:44 GMT > > Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk > > From: "Patrick S. Waterlander" > > To: wendorjr-+AT+-elwood.udayton.edu > > Subject: Re: bits and pieces > > > On Fri, 2 Feb 1996 EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org wrote: > > > > > Buncha short comments while I battle off this rotten cold... > > > > > > re: Firecats. Alison beat me to the punch in noting that all of them > > > have been male so far. > > > > > > Yoicks! and Away! > > > > > > Cindy > > > > > Isnt that because Solaris is the first female _true_ Son of the Sun? > > > > Declan > > > > > Something has been bothering me for a while, so I will ask. How do > you know the assmption that males always come back as male is right? > It seems like gender is not a big issue in general, in Velgarth, so > why would the Goddess/God view it differently? I guess the question > is what makes a soul unique and what exaclty is reicarnated? With > regard to the firecats, I would think that if she wanted them to "breed," one of > them would have conveniantly switched gender. > > > Janet > I think that the firecats maintain all of there memories and personality when they "come back", the only proof I can offer for this is Altra. The firecats don't try to hide what they are and it seems to me that if they do indeed have all of the same memories, etc, (as opposed to a non-magical/avator type re-incarnation like Stef/Lendel or others that moondance and starwind mentioned, where the memories are lost or hidden)...anyway, if they do keep them, a gender change may be a little...disturbing? Why should the firecats have that to deal with along with everything else... ..OK, I just realized a major flaw in my reasoning, species change is probably pretty tough too...but they can keep the same personality and attitudes in a different species, a different gender -Might- reguire some more adjustment, self-evaluation, etc. I hope that wasn't too random. Alison Schiff Nothing shocks me, I'm a Scientist." -Indiana Jones ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:00:01 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Symbs and lifebonds differences. Message-ID: <28EB1D545EE-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Morticia wrote: > Now hold on one friggin' second. Who's maligning Heinlein? What > author alive is better than Heinlein? (yes, I realize that that will > get me killed in this group--let me amend it to SF author, Misty and > other fantasy folks as exceptions) How on God's earth is anyone more > *interesting*? This I have to see! I _know_ that =E0 chacun son go=FBt and so on... but what the heck. :) Sci= - fi authors that are better (IMNSHO!) than Heinlein: Varley, LeGuin, Bujold, Orson Scott Card, Bradbury, Cordwainer Smith, Tanith Lee... About "interesting": I'm personally allergic to Heinlein. Read "Podkayne of Mars" and you'll see why. I admit that there's a few good Heinlein books, like, whassitsname, you know, the one about martians and the actor who's hired to impersonate this politician thingy, but... What I think is more interesting: Varley: at his best as a short-story writer. Envisions a future techno-utopia where the only reason for the frequent sex-changes is variety. Very egalitarian + breaks some stereotypes/prejudices you didn't even know you had. Besides, he describes sex very beautifully. None of the "peeping tom" overtones some older SF writers have. Cordwainer Smith: also known as Paul Linebarger. Brilliant, sick, wonderful stories. Also a short-story writer, really. Read the novelette "The planet named Shayol" and cry. Orson Scott Card: "Speaker for the Dead" and "Songmaster". Humane, wise, transcendent and very grittily down-to-earth. It's this humanity that I haven't found in Heinlein's books, though they have some of the same techno-ish attitude. LeGuin: Of course. "The Left Hand of Darkness" being my favorite, though I'll admit "The Dispossessed" is quite impressive... And of course her fantasy works. Lee: "Silver Metal Lover" is one of the best love-stories I've ever read. Besides, the end reminds me of Vanyel... A small book that contains a big universe, if that makes any sense. Oh, and of course Alfred Bester, by whom I've only read "Tiger! Tiger!". Now _that_ was interesting. Totally spaced and not very likable, but interesting. Bujold I just like. Besides, she's a genius. [lecture mode off] -Seanna the occasionally odd :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:42:51 EST5EDT From: "Icewolf " To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk, lbelzer-+AT+-sbu.edu, Subject: Re: bits and pieces Message-ID: <32D9E6F560F-+AT+-apps.sbu.edu> Janet wrote: >> Something has been bothering me for a while, so I will ask. How do >> you know the assmption that males always come back as male is right? >> It seems like gender is not a big issue in general, in Velgarth, so >> why would the Goddess/God view it differently? I guess the question >> is what makes a soul unique and what exaclty is reicarnated? With >> regard to the firecats, I would think that if she wanted them to "breed," one of >> them would have conveniantly switched gender. >> >> >> Janet >> And then Alison wrote: >I think that the firecats maintain all of there memories and personality >when they "come back", the only proof I can offer for this is Altra. >The firecats don't try to hide what they are and it seems to me that >if they do indeed have all of the same memories, etc, (as opposed to a >non-magical/avator type re-incarnation like Stef/Lendel or others that >moondance and starwind mentioned, where the memories are lost or >hidden)...anyway, if they do keep them, a gender change may be a >little...disturbing? Why should the firecats have that to deal with >along with everything else... >.OK, I just realized a major flaw in my reasoning, species change is >probably pretty tough too...but they can keep the same personality and >attitudes in a different species, a different gender -Might- reguire >some more adjustment, self-evaluation, etc. >I hope that wasn't too random. > Well, I don't know about anybody else out there, but I'd have a much more difficult time if I woke up one day to find I was a guy than if I woke up to find myself equipped with whiskers and a long tail. :) Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Keep wondering, keep wandering, but try not to do both at once. You run into things. -Carla Hennes My getting upset is not the end of the world. I do it every so often, and I've survived every single time, as did any people or structures in the immediate vicinity. -Me ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 12:24:51 EST From: Stormcloud To: Subject: Morals (was Life/Love bonds) Message-ID: <06FEB96.13407850.0032.MUSIC-+AT+-SJUMUSIC> > Sigh. O.K. > I don't think it's so much that people have too many morals as >that they apply them wrong. I was born and raised a Christian, >and yes, I still am one. Yet, most "Christian" morals say that >homosexuality is wrong. I say that's a load of crap, that I really >don't care who a person loves, that it's the love that matters. Most >"Christian" morals say that other religions are demon work. Hey, I >*enjoyed* the Di Tregarde books, and I *enjoyed* MZB's "Mists of >Avalon" and I *enjoy* works that tell me more about other religions - >and it's hardly my place to condemn them. I could go on ... > Yet, I believe I have morals. I try not to hurt other people. I >try to help when I can. You know, "Love thy neighbor as thyself"? >It's a good idea. And just believe some ignorant so-called >"Christian" with an agenda to reach has made some poor people punching >bags doesn't mean the whole "morals" and "religion" idea is bad. >That sort of person isn't the keeper of my conscience, my God is ... >like some peoples' Goddess, or Gods, or whatever. > I wish we could all just follow Valdemar's creed. There is >no one true way. Don't hurt others. Help when you can. > Well, anyway, there's my rant-and-rave for the day. I hope I >don't have to duck flames, but I'm prepared to, if necessary. > > Zhai'elleva, > Winterwind > I think this was a very eloquent statement, and no one (I hope) would flame you for it, Winterwind. I agree totally and completely. I was raised Roman Catholic, and went to Roman Catholic schools for the 1st eight years of my schooling, where they taught us nothing about other religions. They quite literally forced Catholicism down our throats. I lost my faith in the sixth or seventh grade, because I didn't think it did anything for me. I felt no closeness to God, as some people, like my grandmother, claim. I felt no love or respect for him, b/c I didn't know what he was or even if he was out there. So I became an agnostic (for those who don't know, agnostics feel that we cannot know what gods or goddesses are out there, if there is anything at all.) I have friends of every religion, from Roman Catholic and Jewish to Wiccan. And I respect them all equally. I am going to a Catholic college now, and I respectfully accept that they believe things are one way. I believe things are another way. Who is right? Who wants to know? Without faith in something, whether it be a distant God or a set of personal morals that say that love is right and it doesn't matter who loves who or what race or sex they are, society would collapse into chaos. I may have gotten off topic. I don't even know. It's too early in the morning for me. -+AT+->--- Stormcloud Moon the Misty Maniac Prism wilsonj-+AT+-sjumusic.stjohns.edu Power! O blood, blood, blood! -Othello ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 13:23:22 -0500 (EST) From: Ashke To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: New Thread Re: Stefan Message-ID: > Vanyel must be with Stef as the soul has had more experience than when it > was 'Lendel....seems the only sensible explanation to me....but I am willing > to listen to any other arguments. > > ^^^^^^^ |Don't despair| > ( O O ) > <| ? |> |Take heart| > $ \ ~ / $ > - |Life is to be lived| > > Kayla > > kayla-+AT+-vianet.net.au Ill agree with you on that one. Tylendel, for all that he loveed Vanyel was an inexperienced boy when he died. Stefen may have been the same age but had much more worldly experience. Therefore Tylendel(if he remained the same as he was at death) would not have been a fitting partner for vanyel anymore.> > Ashke ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:31:23 -0500 (EST) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Consorts Message-ID: <960206133123.dec-+AT+-bpl.org> Okay, I've spent a little time with the dictionary and the encyclopedia, and I think I've worked out why Daren is a Prince Consort and not a King. It's because he isn't in the line of succession. If Selenay dies, he might be granted the power of Regent til Kris comes of age, but he can't rule in his own right because he isn't of the right bloodline. Selanay is a "queen regnant", like Elizabeth of England -- she is the head of state. If a person is called a queen because she happens to married to a King, she is actually a "queen consort", and has only those powers which have been vested in her by her spouse -- and those powers end upon that spouse's death. The widow of a king is a queen dowager, and the mother of the reigning monarch is the queen mother. Now in Valdemar, the situation is further complicated by the existence of the Heralds and the requirement that the ruler(s) be Heralds. It may be that Selenay is prohibited from devolving any powers onto her spouse unless that spouse is a Herald. So Daren can be given a certain amount of authority, where his brother, who wasn't Chosen, could not. I tend to agree that the Co-Consorts had to have been a situation where both had equal right of blood. (and possibly, where both Monarch and Heir died together, so no Heir-presumptive had been named.) But it might be that the one who was Heir simply insisted that his lifebonded partner be a full partner -- and if the bloodline went to both of them, nobody minded. (The MOH must have been really tolerant!) Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 12:49:00 EST From: Stormcloud To: Subject: Who's up there in Sorrows Message-ID: <06FEB96.13842075.0083.MUSIC-+AT+-SJUMUSIC> >It's been a loooong time since I've read the Winds trilogy -- but is >Tylendel's companion shacking up with Vanyel, Yfandes and Stefan/ >Tylendel in Sorrows? Must get crowded in there. > Kate Gala was not mentioned as being up there, nor would she, because when she repudiated 'Lendel, she completely severed the bond between them. A Herald-Companion bond is, at least, as deep as a lifebond, which is why Yfandes is there. But since Gala's sould was severed permanently from Tylendel/Stefen, she wouldn't be up there with them. -+AT+->--- Stormcloud Moon the Misty Maniac Prism wilsonj-+AT+-sjumusic.stjohns.edu Power! O blood, blood, blood! -Othello ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 12:59:48 EST From: Stormcloud To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re[2]: ADMIN: Why a mailing list is not like a newsgroup. Message-ID: <06FEB96.14036624.0083.MUSIC-+AT+-SJUMUSIC> >Jason said: >> Sorry if we are causing you grief Mel.I think the "groups"[ i.e. Cat >> People, MIW,OIB, LIG etc.] are just a progression from the persona >> roles taken up by those who get Q.O. I think I speak for everyone >> on this list when I say that we would never want this list to be shut >> down. Or have legal proceedings set in motion against you or >> anyone else. As I see it the groups are just a bit of fun which >> breaks up the serious side of the list ie the discussion of Mistys' >> work. The groups in a way bring us closer together with each other >> and to Velgarth its' self [IMHO] > >Oh, I agree; I can see why people would _want_ to do it. The difference between >here and QO, though, is that for QO I'd guess you have to sign something saying >what's what (a release form, or similar), which I can't enforce here at all ... > >Don't panic. I haven't had anyone trying to break the door down yet. *grin* > >Mel. (If it makes you feel any better, I have a release form for Storm _some_where, so hopefully I won't cause you any trouble! ) --Stormcloud ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:45:30 -0600 From: Marissa K Lingen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: SF authors (was Symbs and lifebonds differences) Message-ID: <199602061945.NAA26157-+AT+-cayenne.gac.edu> Had been discussion of SF authors (sorry, I can't get the #$&^(*!!! machine to copy messages when it sends). Okay, so Orson Scott Card is up there with Heinlein, but Ursula Le Guin? Come on! Am I alone here? _The Lathe of Heaven_--ug! uff da! It was *awful*! The concept was neat, but she just couldn't pull it off! (Of course, trying to make a movie of the thing was a worse mistake, but still!) I'm curious--what did you (Seanna) mean by "techno-ish" attitude found in Heinlein and Card? Morticia the physics major (translation: always odd) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 16:22:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines Message-ID: <01I0WDU47WNC050OEI-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Marissa K Lingen > >Sorry, Mat; I just got back and had to argue my point on _The Ruins >of Ambrai_. Yes, their society is awful, but the *author's* >viewpoint does not seem to be that men suck, are responsible for all >the world's ills, etc., ad nauseum (which isn't long). The *cool* >characters, the ones who are the heroes, are also ones who want >further equality between the sexes. That's why I felt that it wasn't >as heavy-handed as some stuff I've found. Well, Sara's views are a little funny. Remember how she tries to treat Collan towards the end? She wants some rights for men, but not all. Collan has to bludgeon her with his equality. Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 16:25:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Nit pick, SR spoilers (well, maybe) Message-ID: <01I0WDWLQYQM050OEI-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) > >Hey all! > >Let me just say this before getting on to Misty stuff.... >"gnuplot"---AARRRGHHHHHHHH! huh? > >Space for my kinda-spoiler > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >That should do it. >Has anyone else noticed how An'desha's eyes change color? >On page 19 of _SW_ (hardback), near the bottom of the page... >"...His hair was a pure, snowy white now, and his eyes a pale silver..." >and o page 57 of _SR_ (hardback), about halfway down... >"...An'desha's eyes were those of a cat's, still: green-yellow, and >slit-pupiled." > Something like this kind of bugged me. At the end of WoFury, when the Star-Eyed transformed Nyara and An'desha, didn't it say that his hair was white and his eyes were ice-blue? Then, in Storms, he's cat-eyed and black(turning white) hair? Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:38:09 -0600 From: Korendil To: "Misty List" Subject: Re: Non-Human Heralds Message-ID: <199602062238.QAA17491-+AT+-ns.cent.com> >> > In the topic of activating potential, what other evidence do we have of >> > WW doing it, other than Gervase? >> >> Umm.. I'd need to go re-read the books to find where it is exactly, but I'm >> sure that it's mentioned somewhere that some schools have the much coveted >> ability to do this. I can't remember exactly where, so I can't be certain. >> >> By the sounds of the song it requires a lot of power to do so, mind you. I >> guess with the reserve that the school is supposed to have, it's less of an >> issue. (again, i'm grasping at memories, haven't read some of them for a >> little while now) >> >> -David >> > >Hello! There are only two specific cases of potential being 'activated' >which I can recall, Gervase and Vanyel. In both cases, quite a bit of >power was involved (Gervase's tree for Gervase, and wild gate energy for >Van). Sorry, don't have much of an opinion on much of anything else here >yet. Well, the place where it is mentioned is MPawn..erm..I've already *written* this email...at least oince;> IMABHO, I'd doubt a WW mage would know HOW to do it, considering that it can be a VERY evil spell. Maybe, just maybe though, WW was formed by thsi mage, who had trained under an evil mage and had his power activated that way...or maybe it was something he always wished to do, and Gervase formed it for the mage? Or myabe this is just a romantic notion that would make a good story, but won't be The True Reason? Am I rambling? DO I even need to ask that? ************ As I find I have no ASCII skill, I'm gonna do a hypercube instead... Till then: Korendil -+AT+- undermac ; rubin-+AT+-cent.com ***************************** ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 358 *********************************