MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 360 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Morals (was Life/Love bonds) by Kayla 2) Re: Stefan after Van's death by Yvonne Spangler 3) Re: re: All MOC's the same one?/On the nature of Companions by Kayla 4) re: Stef by Yvonne Spangler 5) Re: Stefan by bregalad 6) Re: Fwd: Take this seriously-Aids project (fwd) by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 7) by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 8) Re: Watching by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 9) re: Stef by TSALE-+AT+-ups.edu 10) Re: I'm back! by "Icewolf " 11) Re: Nit picks by Yvonne Spangler 12) Re:Baudino&Lackey by "Jill" 13) Introduction. by Magnus Edlund 14) Re: Stefan after Van's death by McCaffrey's White Dragon 15) Re: SF authors (was Symbs and lifebonds differences) by Marissa K Lingen 16) Re: I'm back! by Stormcloud 17) Re: bits and pieces by McCaffrey's White Dragon 18) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 359 by 19) VFC by Ian Macdonald 20) Re: I'm back! by Catherine Osborne 21) ObMisty? by "Patrick S. Waterlander" 22) Storm Breaking by "K.J.F. Loveman" 23) Re: SF authors (was Symbs and lifebonds differences) by Elisa Shapiro 24) Re: Nit picks by Mat Timmerman 25) Re: re: All MOC's the same one?/On the nature of Companions by ps9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu 26) Re: Tannim by Heather Watson 27) Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines by Marissa K Lingen 28) Re: re: Stef by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 23:44:52 +0800 From: Kayla To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Morals (was Life/Love bonds) Message-ID: <199602071544.XAA15358-+AT+-jimi.vianet.net.au> At 07:38 7/02/96 GMT, you wrote: >> Sigh. O.K. >> I don't think it's so much that people have too many morals as >>that they apply them wrong. I was born and raised a Christian, >>and yes, I still am one. >> I wish we could all just follow Valdemar's creed. There is >>no one true way. Don't hurt others. Help when you can. >> Well, anyway, there's my rant-and-rave for the day. I hope I >>don't have to duck flames, but I'm prepared to, if necessary. >> >> Zhai'elleva, >> Winterwind >> >I think this was a very eloquent statement, and no one (I hope) would >flame you for it, Winterwind. I agree totally and completely. I was >raised Roman Catholic, and went to Roman Catholic schools for the 1st >eight years of my schooling, where they taught us nothing about other >religions. They quite literally forced Catholicism down our throats. > >-+AT+->--- >Stormcloud Moon >the Misty Maniac Prism >wilsonj-+AT+-sjumusic.stjohns.edu Power! > >O blood, blood, blood! -Othello > > I have been wiccan since I was 14 or so, I live by three rules 1. an ye harm none, do as thou wilt 2. the threefold law of returns 3. there is no "one true way" (yep exactly as in Valdemar!) you'd be surprised at how accepting a "pagan" religion is compared to more modern faiths. ^^^^^^^ |Don't despair| ( O O ) <| ? |> |Take heart| $ \ ~ / $ - |Life is to be lived| Kayla kayla-+AT+-vianet.net.au ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 10:40:56 -0500 (EST) From: Yvonne Spangler To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Stefan after Van's death Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Feb 1996 Starlight-+AT+-eden.rutgers.edu wrote: > Hi, I was just wondering, if anyone has answered this question yet: > > If Stefan and Vanyel were lifebonded, how did Stefan survive after > Vanyel's death? He wasn't bonded to anyone else like Vanyel was at that > time. I don't have MPrice with me, and I can't remember if it said. > > Can someone please email me the answer? > > ************************************************ > * Contact Starlight at debeng-+AT+-eden.rutgers.edu * > ************************************************ > Stef tried to kill himself in sorrows just after vanyel died. The bottle of poison tipped over and then Van appeared to him and asked him to do somw 'work' for him. He told him that if he did this and didnt kill himself thet they would get to be together after Stef's death. That, in my opinion is what kept Stef alive sll those years. The promise of being with his love forever. Ashke ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 23:56:01 +0800 From: Kayla To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re: All MOC's the same one?/On the nature of Companions Message-ID: <199602071556.XAA15765-+AT+-jimi.vianet.net.au> At 11:31 7/02/96 GMT, you wrote: >I agree. When put that way who can't? I mean a new soul just doesn't have the >experience that Rolan had when "telling" Talia what she eventually told >Selenay (without Talia realizing that she was getting the advice she told >Selenay from Rolan until one of her friends, Keren I think, told her I might >add) for advice. (Sorry if it was a tad confusing. I tend to get that way >when I'm sick and can't really think straight.) Another thing that supports >the fact that heralds are given the chance to become companions (whether now >or later) is that after rereading Winds of Fate series (many times, because I >love those books) that Gwena starts to say either Savil instead of Sayvil or >Sayvil instead of Savil which implies that Savil waited until now to become a >companion. Am I crazy or am I making sense? > >Tam (raingcats-+AT+-aol.com) > You aint crazy I pointed out same thing about the names earlier...asked if anybody else noticed!!! Guess you answered my question *grin* ^^^^^^^ |Don't despair| ( O O ) <| ? |> |Take heart| $ \ ~ / $ - |Life is to be lived| Kayla kayla-+AT+-vianet.net.au ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 10:45:48 -0500 (EST) From: Yvonne Spangler To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Stef Message-ID: anyone elsee think that Stef's life after Van's death would make a great book> Or lat least a short story? Ashke On Mon, 5 Feb 1996 EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org wrote: > Janet said "it must have been a really strange experience to change > from one person to another." and "Is there any evidence that both personalities > are there?" > > Also "Tylendel would still be a mage..." > > Hmmmmm. well. Given my theory that Tylendel volunteered to return to > the world as a child, I think he may have "traded in" his mage gift for > the Bardic gift. I don't think he could have taken a second shot at > being a Herald, not under the circumstances anyway, and if he had kept > the mage gift, then he would almost have had to be a Herald to stay in > Valdemar, near Vanyel. The Bardic gift, on the other hand, _will_ almost > guarantee that he will be brought to Haven sooner or later. > > So once he is dead, he has the Bardic gift, rather than the Mage gift. > > The other possibility here is that he simply concedes the superior > training and experience to Vanyel, who functioned as a mage for more > years than Tylendel was even alive. > > I'll have to reread WoF (when I'm home and can get my hands on it) to > see if there is any more direct evidence beside the haircolor changing. > > Yoicks! and Away! > > Cindy > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 10:09:56 -0700 (MST) From: bregalad To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Stefan Message-ID: <199602071709.KAA23886-+AT+-xmission.xmission.com> > >It's been a loooong time since I've read the Winds trilogy -- but is > >Tylendel's companion shacking up with Vanyel, Yfandes and Stefan/ > >Tylendel in Sorrows? Must get crowded in there. > > I don't think so. > > 'Lendel's companion severed the bond when he went berserk in Magic's Pawn. I > doubt she ever got back with him again..... Yeah. Gala repudiated the bond with 'Lendel after coming through the gate, then went to make her stand against the wyrsa til help could arrive, I think. Breg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:48:17 -0500 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fwd: Take this seriously-Aids project (fwd) Message-ID: <960207124817_216331345-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> What AIDs project? And what may I ask has AIDs got to do with discussions on Fantasy books? Personally (even though I don't know what AIDs thingy we are talking about) I don't think AIDs really has anything to do with what we are talking about. Not that I am against any research for the cure of AIDs but why are we discussing it on this list? Tam (raingcats-+AT+-aol.com) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:48:28 -0500 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com Message-ID: <199602071748.MAA06383-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> n WoF when Stef takes Nyara and Skif of to this secluded place to talk he says something like lifebonds have to do with symetry like if one partner has this personality the other must have that personality because otherwise they would clash too often. A lovebond is supposedly rarer than a lifebond and better because the partners love each other and don't have to worry about personalities clashing. I also think I remember Stef telling them that a lovebond is much better. If I got any of this muddled (which I undoubtedly did most likely) please feel free to help clear things up. Tam (raingcats-+AT+-aol.com) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:48:08 -0500 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Watching Message-ID: <960207124808_216331318-+AT+-emout07.mail.aol.com> You both are not alone! No offense to those who enjoy it but personally it confuses me. I may enjoy it if I knew what the heck was going on! Unfortunately they don't really explain what it is they are doing and who these people are (probably because everybody already knows) but I don't. Sorry if I offended anyone! (I'm pleading ignorance!) Tam (raingcats-+AT+-aol.com) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 9:53:01 -0800 (PST) From: TSALE-+AT+-ups.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Stef Message-ID: <960207095301.20203a32-+AT+-ups.edu> As to Tam's "Poor Van comments" (Sorry I don't know how to copy), IMO Vanyel is not out there with two people in the samme body. If Stefan and Tylendel have the same soul, spirit or what ever you want to call it, then isn't it possible that Van was /always/ in love with that "person" and it just took him a while to admit he loved Stefan? I don;t think it would be confusting at all, but wonderful for him to be reunited with soul that has the memories of /both/ his lovers. While I can't think of any evidece forthis off the top of my head ans do not haveto books at hand, I would argue that the live bond never ended, that it is a bond from soul to soul, reguardless of the 'body' that soul is in. Tayla tsale-+AT+-ups.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:59:34 EST5EDT From: "Icewolf " To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I'm back! Message-ID: <345E63B53B8-+AT+-apps.sbu.edu> >On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Adrienne York wrote: > >> Jeez, it's been a while. >> It's me, Adrienne. Finally caught up enough to rejoin the list. > > Welcome back! Likewise! Good to have you back! >> Can someone explain to me why there are female healers, male heralds, >> gender neutral Shin'a'in swordsworn, and feline sentients on this list? >> > By this I assume you're referring to the Men In White, the Ladies >In Green, the Ones In Black, and the Cat People...ummm, it's a long >story. Ask Lord Jason (sorry, Dalisar, you're way behind) - Ones In Black > Gyrfalcon - Men In White > Lady Tammy - Ladies In Green > Me - Cat People > ....you know, much as we are trying to keep this off the list, I >just keeps coming back.... And the pushy, offense-giving wolves. Don't forget us. >ObMisty: Does anyone have half a clue as to when SB is coming out? I know >SG is coming out in March (I think), but what about SB? I think someone posted that Silver Gryphon is coming out later this month. I'll dig it up and send it along. Zhai'helleva all-- Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Keep wondering, keep wandering, but try not to do both at once. You run into things. -Carla Hennes My getting upset is not the end of the world. I do it every so often, and I've survived every single time, as did any people or structures in the immediate vicinity. -Me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 13:09:59 -0500 (EST) From: Yvonne Spangler To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Nit picks Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Heather Watson wrote: > Okay, while we're on the subject, I have to share my favorite Misty > error. > In Born to Run (errk, or maybe Chrome Circle), Tannim claims that his > name, which means "son of the dragon" in some arcane language, was given > him by his dragon mentor, partially as a sign of affection and partially > as a joke on his last name, Drake (though I don't think we ever learn > his given first name). > In Jinx High, the same character shows up as a high-school student, > whom Di Tregarde freaks out by sending up magical whathaveyou. The kid > did not previously know that he was psychic, let alone have a dragon > mentor who was teaching him to be a mage. YET, in that book, somebody > calls him Tannim. > Arrgh. > > > HTH her to call him....> > It is said in the beginning of one of the books (the one with the kitsune gf) that his dragon mentor had been around since he was a kid but Tannim thought he was an imaginary friend...even into high school he just thought he had an active imagination. Then the situation at schl happened (the one Di was involved in) and he started realizing that since an adult saw it that it was not his imagination. I think the book was either Chrome Circle or Wheels of Fire....It's in the 1st chapter Ashke ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:10:31 EDT From: "Jill" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Baudino&Lackey Message-ID: On Wed. 2/7, Barbara Perkins wrote: (snip, snip) >Also, I stumbled across a book entitled Strands of Starlight by >Gael Baudino. It's set in an alternate 14th century Europe. The >heroine's name is Miriam, and because of her healing powers, she >is branded a witch by the Inquisition...but saved by elves. It's a good one, as is the sequel ("Maze of Moonlight", I believe). There are 3rd and 4th books, too, but I haven't read them yet. >My favorite cross stitch store had their Superbowl sale. (ARen't >you all impressed that I've refrained from GLOATING about the >Cowboys?) Oh-ho! This frustrated Buffalo Bills fan may just have to challenge you on that one! Anyone for a football-based mage-war? No, I didn't think so.... Winterwind ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------Jill M. Morrison - morrisjm-+AT+-sbu.edu---------------- ----Journalism major/English minor at St. Bonaventure University------ ---------in Allegany, N.Y. - the snow capital of the world!----------- ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt -----of in your philosophy." - "Hamlet," Act 1.5, lines 175-176.----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:36:17 +0100 From: Magnus Edlund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Introduction. Message-ID: <1.5.4b11.16.19960207193533.1a7f2326-+AT+-mailbox.swip.net> Hello, fellow Lackeynites. As I'm new to this list, I think an introduction would be appropriate. My name is Magnus Edlund but my friends call me Magnus :). I live in a suburb to Sweden's capital Stockholm, where I also go to school (don't know what it's called in english, but it's the kind of shool you go in when you're 18). I read quite a lot - almost only fantasy. I know, you shouldn't limit yourself to oone genre, but there so much fantasy I want to read that I don't have time to read anything else (except homework and other dull stuff.) I've read all Velgarth-novels except, for some reason, "Vows and Honor," but I think I will buy them soon. Something people notice about me is my intence love of cats. I'm owned by two - Murre and Tusse - and I love them very much. Well, I guess you'll have to make do with that, and if you have any questions you can always mail me. -- Magnus Edlund (magnus.edlund-+AT+-mailbox.swipnet.se) "Whoo-eee," she said. "And to think I used to tickle his tummy...No wonder all the lady cats scream at night." -- When Greebo the Cat turned into a human, (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 11:21:40 -0800 (PST) From: McCaffrey's White Dragon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Stefan after Van's death Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Korendil wrote: > >IIRC, Stefan was going to commit suicide by poison (the same Talia was > >going to use, though I forgot the name) when Van's spirit came to him and > >said that they could be together forever as Van had become, but Stef > >couldn't kill himself just then because there was much he had yet to do. > > Argonel;> I keep my copy of LHM right next to me when I read email;> BTW, > It was, IIRC, the same drug that was used in a non-lethal dose to keep > Van from destroying the Palace in Pawn. Yes...the fact that I'm not sure > DOES contradict my previous statement, but its not here for a good > cause...the start of a new Misty fan(atic)=) > > I'm listening to Moondust , Magic, and > Melancholy..."Well my my vampires fangs may be getting in the way...and I > hope you like l;egs since I have four...My mother never talks about that > orgy, and I can't really blame her at all, though I'd like to read the > guest list for that party" ;>:> Misty must have been in a Very > Strange Mood when she wrote that. > BTW, isn't Argonel also used as an ink of some sort? I believe something to that effect was stated in one of the Arrows books. ___________________ -==UDIC==- ________________ |\__________________\ McCaffrey's White Dragon |\________________\ ||Why is he talking | || | || to that | a.k.a. || Don't ask. | || White Coconut? | Jake Gipple \|________________| \|__________________| (360)-887-4779 LEMUR! "In the name of the moon, I will right wrongs and punish evil! And that means you!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:38:28 -0600 From: Marissa K Lingen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: SF authors (was Symbs and lifebonds differences) Message-ID: <199602071938.NAA05786-+AT+-pepperoncini.gac.edu> Re: discussion of LeGuin, Card, Heinlein!, etc. Hmmm...interesting...obviously different views on what constitutes hard SF. To me, Card is very much not *hard* SF. I think he focuses more on the moral judgments and the ideas of his characters (not technical ideas, but social ones) than he does on the technology itself. You (Seanna) used the example of the ansible as an example of how Card is harder SF, while I would see the *way* he looked at it (Jane, what difference it made in people's *lives*, etc.) as more personal than many. I guess it depends upon what you're comparing it to. I feel that the philosophical aspects of Heinlein and Card make them softer, and I have to say that I think your reactions to the sociological and psychological aspects of both are more a statement about your outlook than about the quality of the writing--just as my ideas about LeGuin are probably more a statement about my outlook than about the quality of the writing. I wonder about that a lot--how much I'm judging something by style quality and how much by content. Oh well. Whatevah. By the way, I would judge Burroughs as an author, and harshly too! Morticia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 13:39:43 EST From: Stormcloud To: Subject: Re: I'm back! Message-ID: <07FEB96.14755161.0125.MUSIC-+AT+-SJUMUSIC> >On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Adrienne York wrote: > >> Jeez, it's been a while. >> It's me, Adrienne. Finally caught up enough to rejoin the list. >> >> Can someone explain to me why there are female healers, male heralds, >> gender neutral Shin'a'in swordsworn, and feline sentients on this list? >> >> _____________________________________________________________________________ >> L'enfant terrible ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu >> "Wielding my power gives me great pleasure." >> -Ivan Ooze > Well, we kinda started a mage war:) It started with Jaguar and >Shadow-lover in a mage duel. Then the MIW stepped in, and everyone >gathered allies, and we now have a war. There are The Ladies in Green >(Tammy, 'Reesa, and I) The ones in Black (Dalisar, Shadow-Lover, >Korendil, and I forget who else), Sunbolts (the merc company), the wolves >(for got the names at the moment), TMIW, Gryfalcon, and Jaguar. I think >that's everybody. We're just killing time, and hopefully the MIW. > > Lady Becky Don't forget me. I'm a One in Black now! :) --Stormcloud ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:17:46 -0800 (PST) From: McCaffrey's White Dragon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: bits and pieces Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Alison Schiff wrote: > > > On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Janet R. Wendorf wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 2 Feb 1996 EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org wrote: > > > > > > > > > re: Firecats. Alison beat me to the punch in noting that all of them > > > > > have been male so far. > > > > > > > > > > Yoicks! and Away! > > > > > > > > > > Cindy > > > > > > > > > Isnt that because Solaris is the first female _true_ Son of the Sun? > > > > > > > > Declan > > > > > > Something has been bothering me for a while, so I will ask. How do > > > you know the assmption that males always come back as male is right? > > > > > > (snip, snip) > > > > > > Janet > > > > > I think that the firecats maintain all of there memories and personality > > when they "come back", the only proof I can offer for this is Altra. > > The firecats don't try to hide what they are and it seems to me that > > if they do indeed have all of the same memories, etc, (as opposed to a > > non-magical/avator type re-incarnation like Stef/Lendel or others that > > moondance and starwind mentioned, where the memories are lost or > > hidden)...anyway, if they do keep them, a gender change may be a > > little...disturbing? Why should the firecats have that to deal with > > along with everything else... > > > > Alison Schiff > > Nothing shocks me, I'm a Scientist." > > -Indiana Jones > > > Well, they would almost have to come back as their own gender. > Females and males think differently. If a person was a male, and came > back as a female, their whole thought process would have to have changed > for them to be really female. If all their memories and personality > traits stay intact, then I would conclude that it would be impossible for > a male to become a female. Just to stop this before it starts, I am not > including those people who have sex changes, or are very womanlike, there > are always exceptions, I am talking about the majority of people. > Just a point as this concerns firecats. IIRC, Karal said that, while Solaris was definately a female, she didn't seem to be like a 'woman' or something. So maybe Sons of the Sun are somehow 'beyond' sex or become that way when they are chosen. ___________________ -==UDIC==- ________________ |\__________________\ McCaffrey's White Dragon |\________________\ ||Why is he talking | || | || to that | a.k.a. || Don't ask. | || White Coconut? | Jake Gipple \|________________| \|__________________| (360)-887-4779 LEMUR! "In the name of the moon, I will right wrongs and punish evil! And that means you!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:46:27 -0500 (EST) From: To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 359 Message-ID: <9602071546.aa26237-+AT+-supreme.crt.state.vt.us> I've been enjoying this far-reaching thread about reincarnation: heralds reincarnated as companions, firecats, Tylendel/Stefan, etc. The disagreements all boil down to one fascinating, but unanswerable question: if there's more to our existence than our lives inside these bodies, what is the essence of us? I certainly don't agree that gender can be part of it: gender is a culturally & historically specific concept. (Oops, that women's studies degree is hard to hide.) If being a "woman" in late-20th century U.S. is an inescapable part of my soul (for lack of a better word) than what place would there be for my soul in an utterly different place and time? The same is true of sexual orientation -- we can at least imagine a culture where people just love other people, without reference to gender. The fact that this culture assigns us a label doesn't mean that that label is part of us for eternity! But, back to the basic question, perhaps what remains a part of a being's soul is the experience -- the experience of being an outsider, being different, suffering discrimination, or the reverse, being normal, powerful, whatever. All of your experiences in a lifetime are filtered through your physical existence at that time - - that has to stay with you. Perhaps that's why heralds reincarnated as Companions (who are returning to a culture very similar to the last one they lived in) will be the same gender -- in a society where gender is so meaningful (and it is in Valdemar), that may simply be easier. Ok, this is getting too long, but two quick questions: How much do we know about how the Companions experience sexual desire? I guess we know they mate, but is there more to it? And are there examples of reincarnation into a nongendered being or form? bridget (who desperately needs to adopt a better name, but finds her creativity stifled by working in the legal field) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 21:39:30 GMT From: Ian Macdonald To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: VFC Message-ID: <15624.199602072139-+AT+-k9.tardis.ed.ac.uk> Well I looks like I might I conned (sorry found) someone to look after the Vanyel Fan Club. Lara is willing to help with running of it. I haven't put her email here to save her some grief from loads of people want to join. What I really read is information about the running of the old group so that she can pick up where they left off. I have a copy of the FAQ but a list of the old member would be a great help If you are interested in joining then please be patient and wait (It shouldn't be long) Also please don't post to the mailing list instead please mail me directly at ism-+AT+-tardis.ed.ac.uk. If possible please put VFC in the subject. Thanks Ian (who has moved back from digest to individual messages now the number mails has gone down slightly) So I might even get involved in some discussions again. < all of a sudden a whisper of sound occurs then the sound of a body hitting a keyboard. "Good thing we had darts", one of the white coated men said to the other as they dragged ian's body from the terminal.> < ism-+AT+-tardis.ed.ac.uk > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:42:46 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I'm back! Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Adrienne wrote: > >> Can someone explain to me why there are female healers, male heralds, > >> gender neutral Shin'a'in swordsworn, and feline sentients on this list? Then Becky replied: > > Well, we kinda started a mage war:) It started with Jaguar and > >Shadow-lover in a mage duel. Then the MIW stepped in, and everyone > >gathered allies, and we now have a war. There are The Ladies in Green > >(Tammy, 'Reesa, and I) The ones in Black (Dalisar, Shadow-Lover, > >Korendil, and I forget who else), Sunbolts (the merc company), the wolves > >(for got the names at the moment), TMIW, Gryfalcon, and Jaguar. I think > >that's everybody. We're just killing time, and hopefully the MIW. The Sunbolts are currently commanded by me, Catherine Sundancer. Applications are accepted, but be warned -- I'm very difficult to work with, unless you're a wolf ;) I\/ Catherine Osborne "After great pain, I\/ Sundancer a formal feeling comes." I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu --Emily Dickinson I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 14:06:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Patrick S. Waterlander" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: ObMisty? Message-ID: Just a quick comment...what does ObMisty mean anyway? I can't think very well right now, so maybe it's something really obvious and I'll feel stupid when I find out... :-> Declan -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -Wishing he wasn't so tired of life- Declan patw-+AT+-clark.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 22:27:14 +0000 (GMT) From: "K.J.F. Loveman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Storm Breaking Message-ID: Jaguar asked if any one knew when SB (Storm Breaking -- right?) was out. It seems that the DAW editions of the "present time" Velgarth books always come out around August/September -- but that said SB wasn't on the 'Locus' list of forthcoming books for '96 which runs until then. Not being much help, Kate ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 17:33:57 -0500 (EST) From: Elisa Shapiro To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: SF authors (was Symbs and lifebonds differences) Message-ID: I also don't think Heinlein is all that "hard" sci-fi. Although he focuses some on the technology his main focus is on the society and its reactions to an outsider. Look at Stranger in a Strange Land or Friday, both analyze a society from the point of view of someone pretty much outside it, and damn well too. When he wrote Stranger Heinlein pretty much had teh hippy culture figured even though it was barely out of the '50's. To me "hard" sci fi is something that tries to paint a believable picture of future technology (something Heinlein doesn't even bother with) and analyzes thsat technology and the culture it creates. Heinlein is more of a mirror of the society he was in when he wrote it. Hope this makes some kind of sense... - Elisa http://mmm.mbhs.edu/~eshapiro ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 17:37:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Nit picks Message-ID: <01I0XTTRZ6QQ050V4Y-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Heather Watson > >Okay, while we're on the subject, I have to share my favorite Misty >error. > In Born to Run (errk, or maybe Chrome Circle), Tannim claims that his >name, which means "son of the dragon" in some arcane language, was given >him by his dragon mentor, partially as a sign of affection and partially >as a joke on his last name, Drake (though I don't think we ever learn >his given first name). > In Jinx High, the same character shows up as a high-school student, >whom Di Tregarde freaks out by sending up magical whathaveyou. The kid >did not previously know that he was psychic, let alone have a dragon >mentor who was teaching him to be a mage. YET, in that book, somebody >calls him Tannim. IIRC, in _Chrome Circle_, Tannim mentions that he had been having dreams of the dragon-guy (as the name flies out of my head) before Di showed up. At the time, though, he thought that they were _just_ dreams. The fight between Di and Faye made him get serious about it though. And it must be after then that he became good friends with Deke, since we see no evidence of that kind of friendship in Jinx High. Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:54:23 -0600 From: ps9562-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re: All MOC's the same one?/On the nature of Companions Message-ID: <3F453DA1FFC-+AT+-wheeler.northland.edu> I was thinking of the idea of all the MOC's having the same soul, and I must admit that that would be infinately more helpful than having "no human experience" as Van put it in WoFury. I also had another point to bring up. Grove Born Companions are supposedly new spirits, right? Now, why would you want to have a companion with really no prior experience choose someone like Elspeth, who probably needed someone with more experience? I would have chosen Sayvil as more appropriate (but whose to question Misty?). So that lead me to think that maybe like the firecats the Grove Born are closer to whatever God or Goddess that is looking over Valdemar than the "normal" companions, so they can recieve more direct advice/help from them. And while on the subject, maybe the companion of the Monarch's Own Herald is actually old Valdemar himself, come back to advise his kingdom? Just my thoughts, I'm willing to be called wrong on this. "Without darkness there can be no light" Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 17:04:50 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Tannim Message-ID: <07FEB96.18447095.0178.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Okay, I concede that the name thing may have been intentional, as opposed to Misty not knowing Tannim's whole life story when she wrote Jinx High. I still think it's awfully odd. I know if I had shown up one day to junior high and told people to call me by some odd name no one had ever heard (or an unpronouncable symbol of my own design...), people probably just would have laughed. I doubt I could have convinced them that I needed to change my name because my imaginary dragon friend called me that in a dream. Would he really have gone to all that trouble based on something in which he did not even believe? Would it really have caught on? Would his PARENTS really start calling him Tannim? Okay, while admitting it's possible, I just have to say that it's still a stretch for me in the suspension-of-disbelief department. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 10:06:54 -0600 (CST) From: Marissa K Lingen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines Message-ID: <199602071607.KAA05335-+AT+-hermes.gac.edu> Err...well, I got the impression that Sarra was trying to do a balancing act between getting full rights for men and being run out of town on a rail. It looked to me like their society had just taken a turn for the more sexist in that one of the powerful groups that allowed men (the Mage Guardians), had been decimated recently. It seems to me that Sarra could only do so much, or she'd get kicked out and not be able to do anything more, or her reforms would be obliterated. I also think Collan was oversensitive (understandably, given his background) about the little things, although she wasn't sensitive enough to his needs. Point being: nobody was perfect, and the author didn't view any one gender as perfect. Morticia > > From: Marissa K Lingen > > > >Sorry, Mat; I just got back and had to argue my point on _The Ruins > >of Ambrai_. Yes, their society is awful, but the *author's* > >viewpoint does not seem to be that men suck, are responsible for all > >the world's ills, etc., ad nauseum (which isn't long). The *cool* > >characters, the ones who are the heroes, are also ones who want > >further equality between the sexes. That's why I felt that it wasn't > >as heavy-handed as some stuff I've found. > > Well, Sara's views are a little funny. Remember how she tries to > treat Collan towards the end? She wants some rights for men, > but not all. Collan has to bludgeon her with his equality. > > Mat > accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu > http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ > People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones :) > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 09:59:51 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re: Stef Message-ID: <9602072259.AA22006-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Tam wrote: > Sounds like a happy median. While Stef is both Stef and Tylendel he also > remembers both but prefers to remember Stef. Like 'Fandes being both lady and > horse Stef looks like both Stef and 'Lendel. Out of curiousity how would > Vanyel be taking this? I mean remember how upset he was over betraying > 'Lendel when he and Stef got together so how would he feel over "shacking up" > with both of them? Wouldn't that be, oh you know, rather odd? I mean think > about it. You fell in love. Your lover/lifebond suicides. You go years lonely > and unhappy. Find a younger love. Against your "better judgement" fall in > love. You die. Your love/lifebond tries to suicide. You stop him while in > ghost form. He agrees to live out life trying to do a certain job asigned him > so he can be with you. He does (sort-of) and joins you. Then lo and behold > you find out he is both your old love and your new love and can look and act > like either one. How in the heck would you feel? I would probably run > screaming from the forest. Poor Van has had his personal life screwed up > since day one. Comments anyone? Oh, I think Vanyel knew by the end of LHM that Stefan was Tylendel. There's quite a few passages in M's Price where he realizes, but buries the knowledge. He may not know consciously, but he does know (or he wouldn't mix them up in dreams etc) or at least suspect. I think it wouldn't have come as too much of a shock - more as a super-wonderful bonus confirming what he suspected. As for Stef's ghost not being a mage - remember, it's not common knowledge that Bard Stefan and Herald-trainee Tylendel were the same soul - it would have been most confusing for Elspeth & co if "Bard Stefan" suddenly started using magic. They took some convincing of Van's bona fides to start with remember. I personally think Stefan could work magic if he cared to (didn't he admit to sculpting certain areas of the forest?), because mage-gift is a physical attribute, belonging to a body. Now, certain things indicate he may not have access to as much power as Van (the fact that his form is a little more indistinct etc) but that could be that he's not the Guardian and doesn't have access to as much of the forest's power. Alternatively, he could be just being canny, or lazy in his manifestation. :) (Remember, even Van went indistinct when he was creating a Gate). Re Van shacking up with a new composite person rather than Stef or Tylendel: What Cindy said. :) Besides, looked at 4 dimensionally, none of us is the same person from moment to moment - we're already growing and changing with each passing experience and thought. The existence of something that can reincarnate in Misty's world indicates that the 'soul' is something higher than those 4 dimensions, something that remains consistent across lifetimes. Just some thoughts. Kerry. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 360 *********************************