MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 363 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Morals (was Life/Love bonds) by Mary Temple 2) Re: Lifebonds v. Lovebonds by Marissa K Lingen 3) Re: Getting stoned, FAQ, anyone? by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 4) Re: If I Pay Thee Not In Gold by Joan Ferguson 5) Re: Mage-duel spectators and groups by CHONNI 6) Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines by jr9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu 7) Misty's filk? by Tammy Harris 8) Re: re: Stef by Mat Timmerman 9) Filk by "Winterwind" 10) Re: The Ones in Black by jr9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu 11) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 359 by Adrienne York 12) Re: Storm Rising. by Adrienne York 13) Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines by Adrienne York 14) Re: Heather Alexander by Heather Watson 15) Re: Bardic gift? by Yvonne Spangler 16) Re: Van Motorcycle Leathers by Yvonne Spangler 17) Re: Sexual Desires of Companions (was Re: M-L Digest 359) by Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 18) Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines by Yvonne Spangler 19) Re: Magewar (NO ObMisty!) by SSCarson-+AT+-aol.com 20) Re: Bardic gift? by SSCarson-+AT+-aol.com 21) Re: Stefan (and argonel) by SSCarson-+AT+-aol.com 22) RE: Horrible Hawkbrother Joke by Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 23) Re: Comparative Normality AND pentacles vs pentagrams by Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 24) Kender?????????????? by Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 25) re: Lammas Night by Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 26) re: Companions by EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org 27) Re: Wiccans (was re:Morals was re: Life-Love bonds) by Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 14:00:11 -0600 (CST) From: Mary Temple To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Morals (was Life/Love bonds) Message-ID: <199602082000.OAA02182-+AT+-natashya.eden.com> At 06:29 PM 02/07/96 GMT, you wrote: > >I have been wiccan since I was 14 or so, I live by three rules >1. an ye harm none, do as thou wilt >2. the threefold law of returns >3. there is no "one true way" (yep exactly as in Valdemar!) >you'd be surprised at how accepting a "pagan" religion is compared to more >modern faiths. > > Kayla > >kayla-+AT+-vianet.net.au > > Uhm, I think you mean more "ANCIENT" faiths. Christianity, and even more so, Judaism, are far older than Wicca. Wicca didn't even exist in the 19th century, and was created by Gardner, who lived in the 20th century. I'm not knocking Wicca, as I believe the practitioners of it come far closer to the "rede" than do Christians to the "Ten Commandments". (generally. I've met some very "good" Christians who come closer to being without "sin" than do some of the Wiccans I've met.) Obviously, I'm not Wiccan. I am, however, a "Magi"...someone who searches for wisdom, and "sacred knowledge". (and by this response I perhaps show that I have much to learn. Someone who is willing to discuss religion rationally, especially their OWN, is rare. And one is far more likely to get into a flame war than a discussion when one discusses religion. We shall see where this goes.) As for morals, I hate to be this way, but the crime rate is the same as it was in Victorian England (proportionate to the population), when "morals" were at their height. I cannot give an exact source quote, but I remember this being a huge 'eye-opener' for me when I saw it. Crime is not a modern evil, but one that's been around since "society". And supposedly, in the past couple of years, the crime rate has actually FALLEN slightly, while fear of crime has gone UP. (searches for an OBMisty) Hmmm...personally, I prefer Tarma and Kethry to Talia. Talia is too sweet, she almost left an aftertaste in my mouth in Arrows. Tarma and Kethry were "interesting" women...and give me an interesting woman over a sweet one any day! :) /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Mary Temple I am the cat who walks by Himself, NoxCat and all places are alike to me. Catriona Rowley - Rudyard Kipling ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 14:07:50 -0600 From: Marissa K Lingen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds v. Lovebonds Message-ID: <199602082007.OAA12306-+AT+-onza.gac.edu> This had been discussing Romanticism in SF/fantasy... I also think that the Romanticism is what draws the more intelligent kids to the genre so young (yes, I'm biased; I believe that those of us who read this stuff are, on the average, more than average intelligence)--I mean, who wants to read about a lousy guy who's having a conflict with another lousy guy? A bright kid is going to look for the knights in shining armor--so that he/she can emulate them, not so that they can save him/her in this day and age! I mean, how many of us would have dreamed of being someone a Herald rescued rather than a Herald ourselves? I think very few...I don't know, it's just that we see so few heroes these days. Sad, isn't it? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:13:02 -0500 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Getting stoned, FAQ, anyone? Message-ID: <960208151301_316408267-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> Thanks for answering my question about the FAQ's. Right after I posted it I went into the internet access menu and found out what it meant. It says it on the menu but thanks for answering the question anyway! Tam (raingcats-+AT+-aol.com) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:14:51 -0500 From: Joan Ferguson To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: If I Pay Thee Not In Gold Message-ID: <199602082014.PAA19818-+AT+-elmer.Harvard.EDU> At 08:03 PM 2/8/96 GMT, you wrote: >Did anybody else read "If I Pay Thee Not in Gold"? was a very funny book IMHO!! > Kayla Wellll, I'm not sure "funny" would be what I would call it. Actually, now that I stop to think about it, it almost *offended* me? No, that's not right ... I found it almost disturbing? Hmmm ... well, at any rate, it didn't sit right somehow. Maybe it was with what's-his-name's handling of the story, after Misty got done with her contribution. I know we've discussed the co-written works in the past, and this one in particular, and, IMHO, compared to this one, _Tiger Burning Bright_ and _The Ship Who Searched_ were pretty amazing :-) Was it that the _Gold_ cooperation was a little weird (he came up with the idea, wrote the beginning and the end, and Misty wrote the middle, and then he re-wrote everything anyway, or something like that)? It just didn't flow together as well as most of her other shared writings. Did anyone really *love* _If I Pay Thee Not in Gold_? back to lurkin' - Joan joan_ferguson-+AT+-harvard.edu Harvard University Library Preservation Office "Instead of loving your enemies,treat your friends a little better." -Edgar Watson Howe (1853-1937) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 12:01:01 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mage-duel spectators and groups Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Alex Neilson wrote: (somebody wrote; alex snipped it) > > About joining list fraternities and sororities :) write to Jaguar for > > Cat People, write Tammy Harris for Ladies in Green, write Gyrfalcon for > > Men In White and Declan for Ones In Black...and speak up if you want to > > form a new one! > > *The Lord of the Cave Trolls sits in his cavern, monitoring the web of the > Earth's Ley-lines, and chuckling to himself as he listens to the plane of > half-a-dozen power groups in the surface world. He occasionally tests his > node connections, so deep in the earth's crust that they cannot even be > discerned by surface-mages.* > > *:Troll-friends: he broad-channel mindspeaks to the surface, :Feel free > to join me down here, weher we can laugh at the mage-wars on the surface:* > Now that sounds like a plan! I've never been much for unnecessary wars/battles/wholesale slaughters anyways, which is why I make such a gooooood Herald... :Shut up Phereze! Be nice, and you can come 'down under' too.: Besides, I've always wanted to have a persona like Relg (Eddings character) and slide through stone; i'll have to work on that one. I sense a new nickname coming.... Herald Chonni Brightwolf ------------------------------------------------ May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather... -Jack Burton ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 14:50:35 CST From: jr9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines Message-ID: <76ED6632EF1-+AT+-cub.uca.edu> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 20:02:52 GMT Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk From: Kayla To: jr9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu Subject: Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines Did anybody else read "If I Pay Thee Not in Gold"? was a very funny book IMHO!! Kayla It was ok. Not Misty's or Piers' best work. -Pandora ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 15:22:58 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Misty's filk? Message-ID: <153D07F0A6F-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> Heyla! I have a question for those of you into Misty's music. When I first saw it advertised in the back of the books, I admit, I thought it sounded pretty hokey. But since I joined this list, so many of you have raved about it that I've started to wonder. I figured, your taste in books is pretty good..... : ) I've even gone so far as to get the Firebird catalog (800) 752-0494, US only, or (503) 239-9941 OR and international). So, now the question. I'd like to order one to start with. Which one??? Help me, you're my only hope! Opinions? Thanks muchly, Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 15:47:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re: Stef Message-ID: <01I0Z55ETQGY0517HL-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) > >Oh, I think Vanyel knew by the end of LHM that Stefan was Tylendel. >There's quite a few passages in M's Price where he realizes, but buries >the knowledge. He may not know consciously, but he does know (or he >wouldn't mix them up in dreams etc) or at least suspect. I think it >wouldn't have come as too much of a shock - more as a super-wonderful >bonus confirming what he suspected. Didn't Vanyel finally figure out the Stef/Lendel thing right before he died? IIRC, he was thinking of the ForeSight dreams, with Stef being substituted for Lendel. Then he thinks something like, "Lendel came back to me as Stef..." Mat (CP) accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 16:20:09 EDT From: "Winterwind" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Filk Message-ID: With all this discussion going on about "Lamas Night" and the songs on, what is it, "Moonlight, something, and Magic", I'm moved to ask: which filk CD/tape would everyone most recomend to someone new to filk? I'm interested in it, but I haven't the vaguest idea where I ought to start listening. :) Also, all the Celtic songs from "Knight of Ghosts and Shadows" and "Summoned to Tourney", where would be a good place to find them? Thanks, Winterwind ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------Jill M. Morrison - morrisjm-+AT+-sbu.edu---------------- ----Journalism major/English minor at St. Bonaventure University------ ---------in Allegany, N.Y. - the snow capital of the world!----------- ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt -----of in your philosophy." - "Hamlet," Act 1.5, lines 175-176.----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 16:02:20 CST From: jr9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Ones in Black Message-ID: <770082B219F-+AT+-cub.uca.edu> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 21:12:36 GMT Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk From: Stormcloud To: jr9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu Subject: Re: The Ones in Black >In a message dated 96-02-08 03:34:53 EST, you write: > > ::Dalisair looks over to Fleetfoot.:: Even you little one are welcome. We >shall have need of you in the days ahead.::A slight smile crosses his face:: Hands off the feathers! :) --Stormcloud Oh, you dropped them and I though I'd hold them for you...I mean since you dropped them I thought that you didn't want them any more.... Fleetfoot hands the feathers back with regret....the feathers soon find their way back into one of her pouches. -Pandora ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 17:27:21 -0500 (EST) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 359 Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Birgit Hanel wrote: > This reminds me of something else: While we know that Companions do, > eerrr, enjoy their sexuality and have offspring, we know relatively > little about their social, ah, behaviour (?) or structures among > themselves in general. Do they have more intimate relationships or does > it all stay, say, casual? We certainly haven't seen life- or love-bonded > Companions, but is it because they are Companions or is it because they > are heavily involved in Valdemaran politics (-> Florian talking to Karal > in SW, sorry, no chapter reference)? Well, we know that Companions do have one night stands and friends they enjoy sleeping with because of Rolan w/ (Skif's companion ?Cymry?) at the outpost in AFlight and Rolan w/ Ahrodie in Afall. And doesn't someone say people gossip as much about Companion's relationships as they do humans? _____________________________________________________________________________ L'enfant terrible ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu "Wielding my power gives me great pleasure." -Ivan Ooze ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 17:37:24 -0500 (EST) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Rising. Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Magnus Edlund wrote: (snip) > - The Mage Storms is IMO the best of the Valdemar series. I don't know why > but I think that Misty's newer books are way better than the older ones. I know you just said you don't know why, but why do you think that Magnus? I think LHM and everything before was the best stuff. Everything after is too busy and compact. Things happen way too fast and there are too many main characters. There's not the great character development Misty used to do. I just read Fire Rose and the best thing about that was that there were few enough characters that you could really get into each one. > - Firecats...I love them! Too bad we didn't get to see more of them. Firecats epitomize the best of cats... intelligent, independent and helpful when it's a good thing. > - Why did Karal survive? How come that there's always happy endings in Her > novels? I mean - even tLHM ended happily, and there the main character > *died.* Of course, most of the time they have earned a little happiness. I don't think Karal could die until the last book, if at all. He is obviously a very central character who will have a hand in the Final Solution. Besides, why should he die? I think having having Firesong save him showed what a recovery he had made. > - Technology. I don't like it at all. When steam-engines start popping up in > fantasy books I panic. Please, I don't want a Science-Fantasy Valdemar. I don't think it's all that odd that steam-engines are in Valdemar. The Valdemarans strike me as having the level of development of about the 18th or 19th century England. (This is just a wild approximation; don't jump all over me if I am nowhere close.) And I don't think steam-engines are that advanced a technology anyway. > Did someone say that the Silver Gryphon will be released later this month? I hope so. _____________________________________________________________________________ L'enfant terrible ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu "Wielding my power gives me great pleasure." -Ivan Ooze ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 17:39:36 -0500 (EST) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Kayla wrote: > Did anybody else read "If I Pay Thee Not in Gold"? was a very funny book IMHO!! I read it and didn't like it all that much. I felt like Misty's and Piers' styles just didn't work well together at all. It felt really strained and forced, like they had to make it happen, so they did. I don't know, maybe it's just me. What do y'all think? _____________________________________________________________________________ L'enfant terrible ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu "Wielding my power gives me great pleasure." -Ivan Ooze ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 17:13:48 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Heather Alexander Message-ID: <08FEB96.18608587.0083.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Actually, yes, she's quite beautiful, with nice long red/blonde hair. Michael Longcor (another filk musician) once described her as "having the kind of looks that make dead archbishops sit up and buy binoculars." And, obviously, grove-born tuxedos are what Heralds wear to the Academy Awards. You know, because they blend in so well with your more common, run of the mill eveningwear. Get with it. :) HTH (Who really doesn't know what she's talking about right now, as it's five o'clock and she hasn't eaten for 24 hours.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 18:26:43 -0500 (EST) From: Yvonne Spangler To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bardic gift? Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 1996 Starlight-+AT+-eden.rutgers.edu wrote: > Will someone please clarify this for me? Does Vanyel have the bardic gift or > not? I mean in Magic's Pawn on page 215, there's the sentence: > > "And-irony of ironies-as if the gods were taking with one hand and > offering a pittance as compensation-the bardic gift. > > But then in Magic's Promise on page 94 after he's listened to Medren > he says: > > " You are better than I was at 15. In a few years you are going to > be better than I could ever hope to be if I practiced every hour of my > life..." > > Does this mean he has it or not? > > ************************************************ > * Contact Starlight at debeng-+AT+-eden.rutgers.edu * > ************************************************ > I would sat that he has it but it isnt one of his stronger gifts. Besides, with all his time taken up by mage craft how could he have time to trian it? Ashke ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 18:33:58 -0500 (EST) From: Yvonne Spangler To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van Motorcycle Leathers Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Jake Adamo wrote: > Esmerelda Evensbane wrote on January 31, 1996 (yes, this is old, give me a > break): > > >eerrmmm - I wasn't being like totally serious y'know, my mail went on to > discuss > >sentient Lotus Elans, and Van unfolding himself off a white Harley, complete > >with white helmet, mirrored visor and leathers. (God I like that image - it's > >to many years since I gave up my Kawasaki 650 cc - I loved that machine). > > Well, if we carry it forward, couldn't Van simply use an elvensteed like they > did in the Bedlam Bards series? (But I think that's probably been said > somewhere already.... I must have 300 messages to catch up with.) > > It seems to me that those two worlds are related (I apologize if this has been > said before). The magic systems in the Tregarde/Talldeer/Serra/Bards books seem > very very similar to the Velgarath one. Tregarde books are the most blatant > mirrors, with all that talk about shields, etc. (This is from the top of my > head, I have no books so please be merciful). > > Can it be? If we push Velgarath into the future somehow, will it turn out to be > Misty's modern-day Earth setting? > > Zhai'ha'allav'a! > > +-------------------------------------------------------------+ > |Rynath / "Conservatives wouldn't even change | > | / their underwear if they didn't have to!" | > |O)///////<>=======================================-------- | > | \ -- Danae from David Eddings' | > |Jake IRL \ _The Shining Ones_ | > +----------------102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com-------------------+ > > Thats a cool thought....I always pictured Van and Eric from the Bedlam bards books kind of similar anyway.....and of course Van would look great in white leather Ashke ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 96 18:41:24 EST From: Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: Sexual Desires of Companions (was Re: M-L Digest 359) Message-ID: <960208234124_102744.2515_GHT75-2-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Bridget typed: >Ok, this is getting too long, but two quick questions: How much do we know >about how the Companions experience sexual desire? I guess we know they >mate, but is there more to it? And are there examples of reincarnation into a >nongendered being or form? Sexual desires of companions: IIRC, in the Arrows books, one of the Companions sure did do it for fun. Talia felt it with her empathy all the time! Unless there is some huge breeding requirement for Companions, it seems that the Companion in mention (I don't have my books here) was just having a good time. Reincarnation as a non-gendered being: Not that I can think of. Zhai'ha'allav'a! +-------------------------------------------------------------+ |Rynath / "Conservatives wouldn't even change | | / their underwear if they didn't have to!" | |O)///////<>=======================================-------- | | \ -- Danae from David Eddings' | |Jake IRL \ _The Shining Ones_ | +----------------102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com-------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 18:43:43 -0500 (EST) From: Yvonne Spangler To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Need a Good Read w/Heroines Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Kayla wrote: > Did anybody else read "If I Pay Thee Not in Gold"? was a very funny book IMHO!! > > ^^^^^^^ |Don't despair| > ( O O ) > <| ? |> |Take heart| > $ \ ~ / $ > - |Life is to be lived| > > Kayla > > kayla-+AT+-vianet.net.au > I read it. I was funny, and quite good. Although at times you could see exactly what was written by anthony and what was done by lackey....I wonder if there will be a sequel Ashke > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 19:00:00 -0500 From: SSCarson-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magewar (NO ObMisty!) Message-ID: <960208190000_139426293-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> I don't think I want to join in quite yet, but I would love to listen in and see what happens! :) -Sarah Carson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 19:13:20 -0500 From: SSCarson-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bardic gift? Message-ID: <960208191319_217523507-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> Didn't Savil say that when Van got his mage powers, he got a little of everything. Didn't she say something like the Gods must have some mercy, now he even has the Bardic Gift. I may be wrong, it's been a while since I've read that one. -Sarah -Paul Simmon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 19:13:32 -0500 From: SSCarson-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Stefan (and argonel) Message-ID: <960208191331_217523704-+AT+-mail06.mail.aol.com> Wasn't argonel what Talia OD on when she was in the dungen in Hardon? I think it was. Didn't she send her friend, the traviling wagon sales person, to get her a couple arrows, and the argonel? Oh Well, I can't rememder very well. -Sarah -Paul Simmon ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 96 19:39:49 EST From: Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: RE: Horrible Hawkbrother Joke Message-ID: <960209003948_102744.2515_GHT105-4-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> StarWolf inputted: >I'm incredibly behind in my mercedes lackey list >digests, and I just came across your Hawkbrother joke >on 26 Jan. ROTFL!!!! If this was my bad Hawkbrother pun, then I thank you. I don't remember seeing another one on the list... Zhai'ha'allav'a! +-------------------------------------------------------------+ |Rynath / "Conservatives wouldn't even change | | / their underwear if they didn't have to!" | |O)///////<>=======================================-------- | | \ -- Danae from David Eddings' | |Jake IRL \ _The Shining Ones_ | +----------------102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com-------------------+ PS not to sound bad, but reading your messages would be so much easier if you cited who you were talking about. ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 96 19:39:42 EST From: Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: Comparative Normality AND pentacles vs pentagrams Message-ID: <960209003941_102744.2515_GHT105-1-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Winterwind did write: +--------------------------That's Rynath! V .On Thurs. 2/8/96, Jake Adamo wrote: .>Since we're giving clothing examples: I do think my black cape gets .>some odd .>(or is it admiring?) looks around the campus.... and the jewelry .>often does get .>a reaction from most.... .. . A black cape? Cool.... :) . You should have seen the looks I get when I wear it out. Like no one had ever seen a black "thief's" cape in their entire life... it goes real well with the Valdemar seal pendant.... -o-o-o-o-o-o-o- On the topic of pentagrams vs pentacles, brought up by Hollie Virgin and the list administrator: I was a tad incorrect. (Bares back for cat o' nine tails). I was writing off the top of my head AND I should know better. Sorry. Gernia Dunwich's "Wicca Craft: The Modern Witch's Book of Herbs, Magick, and Dreams" (my handbook) clearly states that a pentacle/pentagram is the same thing. Here's the quote: The *Pentagram* is one of the most powerful and popular pagan symbols used by Witches and Ceremonial Magicians. The pentagram... represents the four mystical ancient elements of fire, water, air, and earth, surmounted by Spirit. In Wicca, the pentagram symbol is *usually* drawn with its point facing upwards to symbolize human spiritual aspirations. A pentagram with its point facing down is a symbol of the Horned God. page 43 Okay. In the case I was talking about, "right-side-up" is one point up, and "upside-down" is two points up. Of course, this is all relative. The Roman Catholic Church associated the Horned God (and his upside-down [USD - I am not writing this over and over] pentagram) with the Devil, in order to eradicate the worship of this god of fertility and hunting. What I meant to say was that an USD pentacle is ASSOCIATED with satanism mostly, in the same way that some people feel an USD cross is ASSOCIATED with satanism. But in the same fashion that a person wouldn't confuse a right side up (RSU) cross with an USD one (using traditional concepts of RSU and USD), it annoys me that people do confuse RSU and USD pentacles. That's my point, here. I have never heard of the direction your pentacle points as a source of higher authority/enlightenment. I humbly apologize to all my fellow Wiccans. I lapsed back into my Xian mode in my original posting. I believe the operative word here is, Duh! Zhai'ha'allav'a! +-------------------------------------------------------------+ |Rynath / "Conservatives wouldn't even change | | / their underwear if they didn't have to!" | |O)///////<>=======================================-------- | | \ -- Danae from David Eddings' | |Jake IRL \ _The Shining Ones_ | +----------------102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com-------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 96 19:39:51 EST From: Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Kender?????????????? Message-ID: <960209003950_102744.2515_GHT105-5-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Pandora wrote: >"I am not a thief, you >dropped this and I was going to keep it safe for you..." Suddenly all >eyes are turned on the pair. She cheerfully waves and says "HI! You >guys looked like you were going on an adventure and I remembered that >my Uncle Tas used to always say 'every adventure needs a kender' so I >thought that I would go with you. Say I really like all the black you >are wearing! Can I get some too?" Everyone jumps away from the kender >and those that have been around kender groan.... Maybe you want alt.fan.dragonlance... Zhai'ha'allav'a! +-------------------------------------------------------------+ |Rynath / "Conservatives wouldn't even change | | / their underwear if they didn't have to!" | |O)///////<>=======================================-------- | | \ -- Danae from David Eddings' | |Jake IRL \ _The Shining Ones_ | +----------------102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com-------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 96 19:39:47 EST From: Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: re: Lammas Night Message-ID: <960209003947_102744.2515_GHT105-3-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Stormcloud, she did write: >I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > I haven't read it yet, but Daniella took me to the mall Monday >and I GOT IT!!!! (My first Misty book that says copyright 1996 >Mercedes Lackey-- WOW! :> ) >I like Heather Alexander's voice, don't get me wrong (I wonder what she >looks like-- she's sounds very pretty!) but I didn't like the way she >sings WFQ on MM&M. The song is a prayer chant, and she sings it like >just another ballad. I think what I miss from the "Oathbound" version >is those awesome drums. :) Heather and Misty should have won a >grammy or something form Lammas Night, though-- hey, they should have a >filk category at the Music Awards! >I'm done rambling now. ;) [IT = Lammas Night] There's a picture of Heather Alexander (IIRC) in the Winter, 1995 Firebird catalog. She's depicted on the CD cover of her CD "Wanderlust." I don't remember what page. Leslie Fish............................................................................. ................................................................................. ...................................................................ick. And, if there was a filk category at the music awards, someone would nominate Simon and Garfunkel along with Peter Paul and Mary (just like how Boys II Men was nominated for Rock and Pearl Jam was nominated for Heavy Metal). Zhai'ha'allav'a! +-------------------------------------------------------------+ |Rynath / "Conservatives wouldn't even change | | / their underwear if they didn't have to!" | |O)///////<>=======================================-------- | | \ -- Danae from David Eddings' | |Jake IRL \ _The Shining Ones_ | +----------------102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com-------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 19:57:59 -0500 (EST) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Companions Message-ID: <960208195759.37aa-+AT+-bpl.org> (I'll apologize in advance for the rambling nature of this -- I can't edit e-mail at work, and I'm trying to cull out thoughts from several digests.) Jerry said, in response to my comment that the Companions have been hiding a great deal for a long time, "Correct - but that's mainly because they don't want to reveal the reincarnation aspect, and it's omission, rather than active lying..." Two points here. My mother never tolerated lies of omission either. Not if they were intended to keep me from getting grounded, anyway. So I don't think that you can defend the Companions actions on that grounds. The other point, naturally, is *why* do the Companions think that it is so all-fired important not to let on that the majority of them are rein- carnated Heralds? I've offered some opinions, but in retrospect I can see that salving Herald's feelings about meeting somebody they knew as a horse just doesn't cut it. After all, wouldn't you feel better about the death of a friend if you _knew_ that it would only be a matter of time before that friend would be back in the world again -- albeit with a couple of extra legs, a tail, and a fondness for hay but.... Okay, I wouldn't have asked it if I didn't have a theory, but this one has some holes in it, so please feel free to offer revisions. The reason why Valdemar's Companions do not reveal their nature is that they will not endanger the founding principle of the kingdom: "There is no One True Way." Say word gets out that the Companions are in Valdemar because of the intervention of Great Deity X. Wouldn't it follow that pretty soon, the followers of GDX would start feeling superior. "hey, our god is protecting the kingdom, that makes us the _real_ Valdemarans," and other rot. I'd suspect that it was Valdemar himself who negotiated that particular term in the agreement between himself and whichever deity answered him. If he came from the Eastern Empire -- which has a state-imposed religion -- he probably had a bellyful of being made to worship at someone else's altars. Fortunately for Valdemar, he also had the generosity of spirit to realize that it wasn't any more pleasant for the people he ruled. So, even though Valdemar owes its continued stability and defense to GDX, the people of Valdemar are free to worship whoever they want to worship. Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 96 19:56:55 EST From: Jake Adamo <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: Wiccans (was re:Morals was re: Life-Love bonds) Message-ID: <960209005655_102744.2515_GHT60-1-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Okay. Kayla wrote: >>I have been wiccan since I was 14 or so, I live by three rules >>1. an ye harm none, do as thou wilt >>2. the threefold law of returns >>3. there is no "one true way" (yep exactly as in Valdemar!) >>you'd be surprised at how accepting a "pagan" religion is compared to more >>modern faiths. And Mary Temple responded: > >Uhm, I think you mean more "ANCIENT" faiths. Christianity, and even more so, >Judaism, are far older than Wicca. Wicca didn't even exist in the 19th >century, and was created by Gardner, who lived in the 20th century. If we're talking about pagans, The Craft *predates* Judaism and Christianity. How could pagans be persecuted by the Catholics when catholicism first came out if it did not? The spiritual background of Wiccans existed far before the Catholic Church. And the concepts existed also--just not stated by a 20th century-er. Wiccan in this case IMO is a general collective term, just like Christian is a general collective term. This is prolly because Warlock (the Catholic term for a male witch [my case]) derives IIRC from Oathbreaker (that's the OBMISTY) in Old English, and Witch is too connotative to use in modern society. Conversation Excerpt (not proof of point but example:) "So.. what are you?" "A witch." "Ha ha. You gonna turn me into a toad?" This connotation is terrible, and that's why I'm more comfortable with Wiccan or Pagan. But they're all the same at least to me... >I'm not >knocking Wicca, as I believe the practitioners of it come far closer to the >"rede" than do Christians to the "Ten Commandments". (generally. I've met >some very "good" Christians who come closer to being without "sin" than do >some of the Wiccans I've met.) Sinful from a Christian standpoint, of course. Sin is a fabrication of the Church, but the Threefold law and the Rede fill in that empty spot. >Obviously, I'm not Wiccan. I am, however, a >"Magi"...someone who searches for wisdom, and "sacred knowledge". (and by >this response I perhaps show that I have much to learn. Someone who is >willing to discuss religion rationally, especially their OWN, is rare. And >one is far more likely to get into a flame war than a discussion when one >discusses religion. We shall see where this goes.) Hey, this isn't a flame (or wasn't intended to be).... it's just that the foundations of pagan religions predate Catholicism. Like I said, I'm using Wiccan here as a general collective pagan term. Zhai'ha'allav'a! +-------------------------------------------------------------+ |Rynath / "Conservatives wouldn't even change | | / their underwear if they didn't have to!" | |O)///////<>=======================================-------- | | \ -- Danae from David Eddings' | |Jake IRL \ _The Shining Ones_ | +----------------102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com-------------------+ ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 363 *********************************