MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 366 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: OFF TOPIC!!! TELECOMUNICATION S BILL!!! by Stormcloud 2) Re: Introduction by Stormcloud 3) re: Mental Gifts by Rosario Holsen-Baker 4) Re: Lammas Night by Stormcloud 5) Re: Lifebonds v. Lovebonds by Mary Temple 6) Wiccans (was re: morals) by Mary Temple 7) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 362 by 8) Lifebonds vs. Lovebonds by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 9) Re: Bardic gift? by KTATTERS-+AT+-astral.magic.ca 10) Re: religions by Heather Watson 11) Re: OFF TOPIC!!! TELECOMUNICATIONS BILL!!! by mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (puppies and dragons) 12) Re: The Ones in Black by jr9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu 13) Re: OFF TOPIC!!! TELECOMUNICATIONS BILL!!! by mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (puppies and dragons) 14) re: Mental Gifts by TSALE-+AT+-ups.edu 15) re: Mental Gifts by TSALE-+AT+-ups.edu 16) Re: Lammas Night by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 17) Re: Introduction by "McArthur E. Sandridge III" 18) Re: Wicca by Becky Anne Christensen 19) Re: consorts by Heather Watson 20) Re: Comparative Normality AND pentacles vs pentagrams by Becky Anne Christensen 21) Romanticism(was Re: Lifebonds v. Lovebonds) by Becky Anne Christensen 22) Re: Wiccans (was re: morals) by Becky Anne Christensen 23) re: Mental Gifts by Becky Anne Christensen 24) Re: Romanticism(was Re: Lifebonds v. Lovebonds) by bregalad 25) Re: Romanticism by Heather Watson 26) More Intros by Elisa Shapiro 27) re: Mental Gifts by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 28) Re: Wicca by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 29) Re: Comparative Normality AND pentacles vs pentagrams by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 14:09:14 EST From: Stormcloud To: Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC!!! TELECOMUNICATION S BILL!!! Message-ID: <09FEB96.15286540.0163.MUSIC-+AT+-SJUMUSIC> >I do not wish to see any discussion of the latest daft idea to come >out of the US legal system on-list, please. Every _other_ list I'm on >at the moment seems to have thrown topic to the winds; let us take it >as read that those who wish to discuss it can do so elsewhere. > >If the US Government wish to send someone to Britain to arrest me >for saying "fuck" in this message, let 'em try ... > >Mel >(she who gets mortally sick of the US-centrism of the net sometimes) I love this woman! Why can't the Net be like Valdemar-- there's no one true way? -+AT+->--- Stormcloud Misty Maniac, Van fan, and Sailor Moon lover wilsonj-+AT+-sjumusic.stjohns.edu "The man that hath no music in himself,/ Nor is moved with concord of sweet sounds,/ Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils;/ The motions of his spirit are dull as night,/ And his affections dark as Erebus." --William Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 14:11:52 EST From: Stormcloud To: Subject: Re: Introduction Message-ID: <09FEB96.15334111.0163.MUSIC-+AT+-SJUMUSIC> >Feb 9th Anissa wrote:- >>Heyla! My name is Anissa Moon, > >As for a brief introduction: I'll be 18 in a couple of months and am a high >school Senior in a small town near San Francisco. I love fantasy, as I >mentioned before, my >favorite Misty book is Magic's Pawn (I never cried so hard in my life as when >Tylendel died -- forget Van, *I* was in love with him! ), which I was >fortunate enough to get a signed copy of at Fantasy Worlds Festival '94. Of >course (needless to say!), the >rest of the Herald-Mage trilogy and the Arrows books were nothing short of >magnificent, too. In the way of music, I love Erasure > >This is only my first day, and if anyone has any advice or tips or (please!) >explanations, info would be very much appreciated. Also, how do I find >descriptions of the different groups? How do I join (inquiry, invitation, >etc.)? > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Welcome to the list, great taste in music[ erasure are exellent] >Where exactly do you live as I lived in Piedmont for a year >[8/92-8/93]. > >As to joining one of the groups just state in a mailing which you >want to join[ Ones In Black, Ladies In Green, Cat People, But > beware of The Men In White!!!!!!] > >I see you shiver with antici....pation > >Jason[OIB] Anissa, come play with us! (The Ones in Black) And e me soon! :) -+AT+->--- Stormcloud Misty Maniac, Van fan, and Sailor Moon lover wilsonj-+AT+-sjumusic.stjohns.edu "The man that hath no music in himself,/ Nor is moved with concord of sweet sounds,/ Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils;/ The motions of his spirit are dull as night,/ And his affections dark as Erebus." --William Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:18:45 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Mental Gifts Message-ID: Cindy wrote: > to hero worship. It might not always work (at least one person besides > Tylendel has been repudiated) but it probably works pretty often. > Wait...who was that? I don't remember anyone else being repudiated. IIRC, in LHM everyone is so astonished because it's never happened before, and in the rest it hasn't happened since. If you're talking about Lavan Firestorm he wasn't repudiated, in AotQ Teren (I think, could have been Ylsa) explains that Lavan Firestorm's Companion was killed either at Burning Pines or in the battle before, and the last firestorm he called down killed him. Actually, come to think of it, I think that was Ylsa. |----------------------------<>------------------------| | See these eyes so green I can stare for a thousand years | | Colder than the moon Well, it's been so long | | And I've been putting out fire with gasoline | | David Bowie__"Cat People" | |--------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 14:21:18 EST From: Stormcloud To: Subject: Re: Lammas Night Message-ID: <09FEB96.15503508.0163.MUSIC-+AT+-SJUMUSIC> >Hi, all! > >Could someone please tell me who wrote or edited "Lammas Night?" I >looked for it last night but couldn't find in *all* those books at >Bookstar??? > >Many, many thanks! > >Candace "In Celebration of Lammas Night" created by Mercedes Lackey, edited by Josepha Sherman. And for anyone who doesn't want to know the ending, Misty's story in the collection is not a definitive ending. (I think our ending was a good idea, Rynath-- that would be really funny! :>) -+AT+->--- Stormcloud Misty Maniac, Van fan, and Sailor Moon lover wilsonj-+AT+-sjumusic.stjohns.edu "The man that hath no music in himself,/ Nor is moved with concord of sweet sounds,/ Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils;/ The motions of his spirit are dull as night,/ And his affections dark as Erebus." --William Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:37:41 -0600 (CST) From: Mary Temple To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds v. Lovebonds Message-ID: <199602092037.OAA12406-+AT+-natashya.eden.com> At 09:03 AM 02/09/96 GMT, you wrote: >On Fri, 9 Feb 1996, Marissa K Lingen wrote: > >> This had been discussing Romanticism in SF/fantasy... >> >(slash, slash. Claws retracted.) > > I agree totally! I am smarter than average, and have been reading >and drawn into books since I can remember. Misty's books drew me like no >others, except for Mary Stewart and her trilogy about King Arthur. I long >for days when there were Knights in Shining Armor ready to defend all >that is good and honorable. I think that compared to books, reality >pales. Our world today can get so....disgusting! I haven't met to many >people ready to go out and fight for good and honor, but when I do, I >instantly like them. I consider fictional characters to be my role-models >in some sense. Imagine if we could live our lives as Kerowyn, or Selenay >did, even if they aren't real, Misty has done such a good job of creating >them, that they could be. Books are so real, and why would you want to >read a book about something horrid, it's like putting yourself into a >horrid place. > > Lady Becky > Uhm, have you experienced the SCA? We have Knights in Shining armor, (when they polish it, ) and we try and uphold the concepts of Chivalry, Honor, and Courtesy. Not just in the SCA, but also in the real world. Misty is fringe SCA (and in my kingdom, albeit much farther north), as are a lot of authors who write about these ideals. Marion Zimmer Bradley, Katherine Kurtz, Diana Paxson, and Poul Anderson are too. As is DC Fontana from Star Trek fame. I could name more, but it would be several screens of names. BTW - SCA stands for Society for Creative Anachronism. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Mary Temple I am the cat who walks by Himself, NoxCat and all places are alike to me. Catriona Rowley - Rudyard Kipling ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:43:18 -0600 (CST) From: Mary Temple To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Wiccans (was re: morals) Message-ID: <199602092043.OAA12793-+AT+-natashya.eden.com> Just a note that I've taken my responses to those who responded to my comments off the list and into private email. IMO, religious debate doesn't belong on this list unless it is the religions of Misty's universes. (And man can you get flamed for talking religion on a mailing list if it isn't a RELIGION mailing list! *cough* X-Files list *cough*) In deference to the Lady Mel, our List Admin. (bows) /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Mary Temple I am the cat who walks by Himself, NoxCat and all places are alike to me. Catriona Rowley - Rudyard Kipling ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:47:38 -0500 (EST) From: To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 362 Message-ID: <9602091547.aa01852-+AT+-supreme.crt.state.vt.us> Morticia wrote: >Err...Bridget asked how we know Companions feel sexual desire...I >might be off base here, but I thought Misty had made reference to companions being just as >(ahem) "active" as their Heralds, on the >average (obviously, activities of each vary, but...). Yeah, looking at what I wrote, it wasn't very clear. We obviously know that they *do* experience desire, and act on it. I just was wondering how its experienced -- as just a basic bodily need, or is there more emotion, love, whatever you want to call it involved. Khenta wrote >> Ok, this is getting too long, but two quick questions: How much do we know >> about how the Companions experience sexual desire? I guess we know they >> mate, but is there more to it? And are there examples of reincarnation into a >> nongendered being or form? >> >This reminds me of something else: While we know that Companions do, >eerrr, enjoy their sexuality and have offspring, we know relatively >little about their social, ah, behaviour (?) or structures among >themselves in general. Do they have more intimate relationships or does >it all stay, say, casual? We certainly haven't seen life- or love-bonded >Companions, but is it because they are Companions or is it because they >are heavily involved in Valdemaran politics (-> Florian talking to Karal >in SW, sorry, no chapter reference)? And, not surprisingly, someone said it better than I did. Perhaps the primacy of the Companion bond rules out another powerful bond -- although for humans, those with companion bonds seem more likely to lifebond. bridget ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:55:58 -0500 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Lifebonds vs. Lovebonds Message-ID: <960209155556_317410293-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> I think that lovebonds are better. In WoF pages 101-102 Stef is talking to Skif and Nyara and Stef says, "It takes two very strong, well-established personalities to make a lifebonded pair work, because if one is passive, he'll be eaten alive by the other. (snip, snip) . . . it isn't love, that's for certain, even though love usually cements the bond. (snip, snip) Love now- a good, solid love is something infinitely rarer and more difficult to maintain, because you don't know everything your partner is feeling. Love takes work. Love means being able to apoligize and mean it when you blunder. Love is worth (next page) fighting for! One of the very things that made what Van and I have a love-match as well as a lifebonding was that we were so different." Anyway that proves my point. A lovebond is better (I think) than a lifebond just because of the very thing that makes a lifebond a lifebond. When you have a lifebond whether you want to or not you feel what the other is feeling. In a lovebond you still get to find out what the other is feeling but you get to find out by talking about it instead of "knowing" it. It like in a lovebond you get to enjoy "finding out" about each other instead of in a lifebond you already "know" about them. I guess what I'm getting at is that in a lovebond you still have surprises unlike in a lifebond when you already "know." Tam (raingcats-+AT+-aol.com) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:01:05 -0500 From: KTATTERS-+AT+-astral.magic.ca To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bardic gift? Message-ID: >Hi, I hate to interupt, but I re-read the trilogy a month or two ago. Vanyel >doea have the Bardic Gift. I don't recall where it says it... But I can look >it up if you'd like. I remember Vanyel having the Bardic Gift, however, from other things that she's said during the series, I don't think you can turn that off and on. How does he do the minstrel thing if he has the Bardic Gift? Maybe she forgot he had it... Shadowstar k'Anada ktatters-+AT+-astral.magic.ca Pegasus circling the midnight-sky. The new chapter beggining, with the sailorsoldier's history. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 17:03:55 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: religions Message-ID: <09FEB96.18430709.0178.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Umm...I never said that Christians don't take responsibility for their actions, or that Christianity doesn't expect that. I said that the EMPHASIS was often on a personal move back toward a right relationship with God, which can frequently involve helping to clean up the mess you've made. Many Wiccans/pagans, instead, stress physical repairs and moving toward a right relationship with the earth and other people, which can frequently involve a greater sense of closeness with their dieties of choice. I think both are valid approaches. Again, please, nobody tell me why this isn't true of all Christians or all pagans. I *know* that. I'm generalizing. Nothing is ever true of everyone -- maybe that's not even always true But very often, Christianity emphasizes the spiritual over the physical, and Wicca/paganism goes the other way 'round. IMO, the best people in both religions work hard to blend their inner and outer lives, even if they approach the subject from different directions. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:10:39 -0700 (MST) From: mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (puppies and dragons) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC!!! TELECOMUNICATIONS BILL!!! Message-ID: <199602092310.QAA25065-+AT+-usr6.primenet.com> At 09:41 AM 2/9/96 GMT, Melanie Dymond Harper wrote: >I do not wish to see any discussion of the latest daft idea to come >out of the US legal system on-list, please. Every _other_ list I'm on >at the moment seems to have thrown topic to the winds; let us take it >as read that those who wish to discuss it can do so elsewhere. > >If the US Government wish to send someone to Britain to arrest me >for saying "fuck" in this message, leyt 'em try ... > >Mel >(she who gets mortally sick of the US-centrism of the net sometimes) > > Dear Mel, Sorry, I seem to have started something. I didn't mean to. All my toher posts have some sort of Misty content, so I really am trying to obey your rules:) I don't think I've even insulted anyone recently. Well, except Gyrefalcon, but he's sicing the MIW on people again, so I'm not apologizing for that:) Lady 'Reesa (Who just can't seem to get that last toe out of her mouth...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 17:31:12 CST From: jr9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Ones in Black Message-ID: <789842D08EB-+AT+-cub.uca.edu> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:17:34 GMT Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk From: Stormcloud To: jr9332-+AT+-cub.uca.edu Subject: Re: The Ones in Black > They were in my hair, little one, the whole time. And if you don't give them back, I'll set my _kyree_ mindmate on you. -+AT+->--- Stormcloud OOOHHH!!! I have never had a kyree on me..sounds fun!!!! Here puppy... -Pandora ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:21:26 -0700 (MST) From: mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (puppies and dragons) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC!!! TELECOMUNICATIONS BILL!!! Message-ID: <199602092321.QAA18810-+AT+-usr2.primenet.com> At 11:12 PM 2/9/96 GMT, McCaffrey's White Dragon wrote: >On Fri, 9 Feb 1996, puppies and dragons wrote: > >> Am I the only one bothered by the fact that the >> telecomunications bill passed? (Sorry for those of you in the uk. >> You still get to say what you want:) Granted I don't go trolling >> for pornography sights, but according to the websight about it, >> this bill allows the FCC to read EVERY SINGLE PEICE OF E-MAIL >> ECT. THAT GET'S SENT!!! It allows them to regulate what people >> have on their web-sites, and it, to me, says that the US of A >> isn't as free as we like to think it is. >>> >> >> >> Hoping I haven't offended anyone, >> >> Lady 'Reesa >> >> > > I too am bothered by this. Paranoid people are begining to be proved >correct! BTW, where can I see a copy of the bill in full? > > ___________________ -==UDIC==- ________________ > |\__________________\ McCaffrey's White Dragon |\________________\ > ||Why is he talking | || | > || to that | a.k.a. || Don't ask. | > || White Coconut? | Jake Gipple \|________________| > \|__________________| (360)-887-4779 LEMUR! > "In the name of the moon, I will right wrongs and punish evil! > And that means you!" > > Try acsessing alt.pagan.faq (hope I remembered that right...) they have a link to the protest page, who may be able to help you more. Almost every page I went ot yesterday was black, and had a link to the protest info page. Including Heather Alexander's page! If you find it, would you send it to me, or just send me the addy? By private e-mail, if you've got the time, 'cause Mel doesn't really want this on the list. Lady 'Reesa mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:36:39 -0800 (PST) From: TSALE-+AT+-ups.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Mental Gifts Message-ID: <960209163639.20204c47-+AT+-ups.edu> As to Tylendel being the only herald to be repudiated, I must dissagree. I do not have the texts infront of me, but I am sure there were others. Also, the bell tolled for Tylendel's death, somthing it only does for /harpers/, so it would seem IMO that he was still considered a Herald ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:43:53 -0800 (PST) From: TSALE-+AT+-ups.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Mental Gifts Message-ID: <960209164354.20204c47-+AT+-ups.edu> I profusely appologize for the garbled last message, my vax freaked out. As to Tylendel being the only one repudiated, I must dissagree. I do not have the texts infront of me, but I am sure thatthere were others mentioned in Talia's lessons. Also the bell tolled for Tylendel's death, somthing it only does for /heralds/, so it would seem IMO that he was still considered a Herald at some level. Tayla ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:52:36 -0500 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lammas Night Message-ID: <960209195235_218411904-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> Candace, You are in luck! My mom just bought it! Mercedes Lackey created it and Joseph Sherman edited it. Glad to be of service! Tam (raingcats-+AT+-aol.com) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 96 21:28:27 -0500 From: "McArthur E. Sandridge III" To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk" Cc: Catherine Osborne Subject: Re: Introduction Message-ID: <199602100234.VAA20463-+AT+-freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu> -- [ From: McArthur E. Sandridge III * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > Don't forget the mercenaries! The Sunbolts are commanded by me, accepting > applications by private email for fighter, scout, mage, bard etc. ;) And what about Warlock's, where do we belong? Speaking of which... Does anyone keep up with Christopher Stacheff's The Warlock Series, and for those that do, what about the comparison of mind magics with the mental powers of Gramarye? Have a knack for computers, and a habit of responding with "Magic!" when someone would ask me how I did something when at the University of Florida, I adopted the nick of Warlock. So I'm just wondering where I would fall into this. As for Misty, I've read everything I could get my hands on (just don't have all the newer stuff) and have considered joining Queen's Own, but I already have 1.5 life consuming hobbies (2 if you count the Net... :) The Society for Creative Anachronism often takes up most of my free time! As for the music from the books! It's Great! (I have heard a friends copy of Oathbound/Oathbreakers) I want to get everything, but you know how it goes... Want in one hand and sh*t in the other and see which fills up first ! Well, enough rambling, I'll go back to lurking, I just wish the list had not kick off my digest mode and would stop telling me there are no requests in my server mail to turn it back on! :) Oh well, my provider will hate me! Buddy SKA: Lord Rolfus of Londinium -- AFN03656-+AT+-afn.org Insert standard terrorist warlock-+AT+-falcon.inetw.net disclaimer here! Backup my hard drive? I can't find the reverse switch! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:28:41 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wicca Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Feb 1996, Heather Watson wrote: > As far as I know, however, those Christian traditions that believe > in "original sin," or being sinful before you've had a chance to mess > anything up yet. (snip) > The major difference is (not always, but by and large) > that Christians emphasize being forgiven for their sins, while Wiccans > emphasize taking responsibility for the consequences of theirs. > That is mostly because everyone will sin in their lifetime. Nobody has led a perfect sin-free life, excepting Jesus if you believe in him. The reason we are all sinners before we've had a chance to mess things up is because God transcends time. Time is something humans are limited by. If you imagine God, and think of Him standing and looking down on a line (our time-line) he can affect anything at any point on the line because he isn't part of it. Therefore things that we can't see, because we're limited by time, God sees, because he exists all the time. And Christians do take responsibility for their sins, forgiveness has already happened. If you sin, and just ask God for forgiveness, it won't change anything, but if you go and make amends with the person, that is when you would be forgiven. Although we have been already forgiven for everything, including things we haven't done, so the responsibility seems like the most important part to me. Sorry if this doesn't make a lot of sense, it's kinda hard to imagine, and it's the best example I could come up with. Lady Becky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 21:23:49 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: consorts Message-ID: <09FEB96.23108893.0025.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. So sorry to have sounded snippy about dictionaries and such and forth. Of course, I didn't mean that outside resources never teach us anything worth knowing. They certainly can. My post was in response to a thread where it was postulated that Selenay and Daren couldn't be equal in station because the definition of monarchy was "rule by one." I only meant to say that regardless of how monarchies here on Earth have handled the issue of marriage and rulership, Misty made it clear that so long as the Valdemaran monarch's spouse was Chosen, he/she could rule jointly and equally with the blood heir. In that specific case, outside information was not useful in understanding the politics of Valdemar. I never intended to imply that such was always the case. Sometimes when I answer my e-mail before my 8:00 poli sci class, I get to sounding rather short. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:34:43 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Comparative Normality AND pentacles vs pentagrams Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Feb 1996, Gjuka wrote: > also, to the one who wrote of pagans not being as without sin as some > christians.....i know what you mean and it is not entirely incorrect... > however it was a rather eronious statement as most pagans no more believe > in sin than in satan...so it is impossible for them to be "sinful". my > morals do not corispond with the ten comandments, so by christian > standards, i am immoral. but i am much truer to my morals than most > christians are to theirs. i am a happy person who tries my very best not to > cause harm. what more can i ask?! (grin) > > (and if you couldn't tell, i am wiccan and a history major!) > -colette Relgion is so fun to talk about isn't it? There's so much to discuss, anyways, there seems to ba an awful lot of wiccans. I have no idea what they are, seeing as how I am an extremely sheltered child, and actually waking up to reality this year, it's kinda scary. Anyways, from what someone said, I got the impression that wiccans are the modern day witches and warlocks (and not the broom carrying black hat ones). I didn't know there was such a thing. I love learning about other religions, and would love to have someone explain it to me. Maybe even go in for a deep debate Lady Becky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:52:32 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Romanticism(was Re: Lifebonds v. Lovebonds) Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, Mary Temple wrote: > At 09:03 AM 02/09/96 GMT, you wrote: > >On Fri, 9 Feb 1996, Marissa K Lingen wrote: > > > >> This had been discussing Romanticism in SF/fantasy... > >> > >(slash, slash. Claws retracted.) > > > > I agree totally! I am smarter than average, and have been reading > >and drawn into books since I can remember. Misty's books drew me like no > >others, except for Mary Stewart and her trilogy about King Arthur. I long > >for days when there were Knights in Shining Armor ready to defend all > >that is good and honorable. I think that compared to books, reality > >pales. Our world today can get so....disgusting! I haven't met to many > >people ready to go out and fight for good and honor, but when I do, I > >instantly like them. I consider fictional characters to be my role-models > >in some sense. Imagine if we could live our lives as Kerowyn, or Selenay > >did, even if they aren't real, Misty has done such a good job of creating > >them, that they could be. Books are so real, and why would you want to > >read a book about something horrid, it's like putting yourself into a > >horrid place. > > > > Lady Becky > > > Uhm, have you experienced the SCA? We have Knights in Shining armor, (when > they polish it, ) and we try and uphold the concepts of Chivalry, > Honor, and Courtesy. Not just in the SCA, but also in the real world. Misty > is fringe SCA (and in my kingdom, albeit much farther north), as are a lot > of authors who write about these ideals. Marion Zimmer Bradley, Katherine > Kurtz, Diana Paxson, and Poul Anderson are too. As is DC Fontana from Star > Trek fame. I could name more, but it would be several screens of names. BTW > - SCA stands for Society for Creative Anachronism. > > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ > Mary Temple I am the cat who walks by Himself, > NoxCat and all places are alike to me. > Catriona Rowley - Rudyard Kipling > Actually, I never have heard of the SCA, what exactly does it do? I read one of Katherine Kurtz's books, can't remember the name at the moment, and thought it was a good book. But it didn't completely absorb me the way Misty does. I've been meaning to go out and get the book by Marion Zimmer Bradley that has the original story of Tarma and Kethry, but need some money:) Alas, so many books, and so little money, Lady Becky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:54:21 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wiccans (was re: morals) Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, Mary Temple wrote: > Just a note that I've taken my responses to those who responded to my > comments off the list and into private email. IMO, religious debate doesn't > belong on this list unless it is the religions of Misty's universes. (And > man can you get flamed for talking religion on a mailing list if it isn't a > RELIGION mailing list! *cough* X-Files list *cough*) > > In deference to the Lady Mel, our List Admin. (bows) > > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ > Mary Temple I am the cat who walks by Himself, > NoxCat and all places are alike to me. > Catriona Rowley - Rudyard Kipling > > Are we starting a religous debate side list thingy, like the mage war? Sounds interesting....I really am enjoying learning about Wicca. Lady Becky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 20:09:48 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Mental Gifts Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Feb 1996 TSALE-+AT+-ups.edu wrote: > I profusely appologize for the garbled last message, my vax freaked out. > > As to Tylendel being the only one repudiated, I must dissagree. I do not > have the texts infront of me, but I am sure thatthere were others mentioned > in Talia's lessons. Also the bell tolled for Tylendel's death, somthing it > only does for /heralds/, so it would seem IMO that he was still considered > a Herald at some level. > > Tayla Yes, he was a Herald. We had had this discussion right after I joined, in January. I believe we came to the conclusion that "Lendel was a Herald, and buried as a Herald because he wasn't in his right mind. We also didn't find evidence of any other Heralds being repudiated. Lavan firestorm called the fires down on himslef, and several people have done final strike, but I don't recall anyone being repudiated.If you want to see the whole discussion, you could check back in the archives, it was around January 4 or so, I think, well, early January. I think I started the whole discussion:) Lady Becky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 21:43:37 -0700 (MST) From: bregalad To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Romanticism(was Re: Lifebonds v. Lovebonds) Message-ID: <199602100443.VAA24219-+AT+-xmission.xmission.com> No ObMisty, either, btw. :) How would I find out about SCA ..ermm... chapters local to me? Private email would work well enough as a reply. :) Thanks! Breg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 23:08:49 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Romanticism Message-ID: <09FEB96.24998867.0025.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Aw, the SCA is lots of fun. You should check it out. It's a medieval re-enaction group, although I've found that some shires/counties/etc. (local groups) are more historical than others. Some SCA folks are very into research and accurately reflecting, inasmuch as possible, the culture and look of the Middle Ages, and some lean more toward that kind of cobbled-together fantasy/medieval look that my friends and I call Medieval Mystery Meat. Not that either is wrong, it's just that it can be a trick to land yourself in a group who wants what you want out of the SCA. Anyway, we do tournaments and feasts and sew and cook and sing and beat the hell out of each other with rattan, and if you're really good at something -- say, singing, or beating the hell out of big guys with rattan -- they make you nobility. You know, this brings up for me an interesting point about what we've been calling "romanticism" here lately. I think it is a philosophy that appeals to most of us who enjoy high fantasy. Sometimes I get worried though, because too often I meet very bitter fantasy fans who get on a jag with me about how the real world sucks and nothing is beautiful or honorable or magical or heroic outside of books, or role-playing, or fandom. I hate to hear that kind of thing, especially considering how young some of these people are. My God, the world is enormous, and it's dazzling. I love things like Valdemar, and because I can't run away and live in that world (it is imaginary, as far as I know), I have to take it with me. And that's fun for me. I think that if you look for it, you find the romance all over the place. And if you don't, it's not too hard to create. All you really have to do is approach everything with a sense of wonder, as if it had something to offer you -- people, too. People especially. I've noticed that you get from people what you expect from people. I try to treat everyone not only with chivalry, but as if they were beautiful and special. People more often than not treat me well in return, and we're all that much happier with ourselves. Not always, but a lot of the time. I don't know if I'm talking to any of you or not, but just speaking statistically, I probably am. Please don't be bored or cynical with "mundane" life. LIFE IS NOT MUNDANE. Life should never be mundane. Please believe me, you will be a happier person if you believe that you can find what you're looking for in the real world as well as on the fantasy shelves. I have seen it happen. Hope this doesn't seem offensive or holier-than-thou to anyone. It's just that a lot of good friends, and good people, have really hurt themselves with this kind of attitude, and I'd do anything to keep someone else from going through the same thing if I could. You all are so much more open and warm and gracious than many of the people I meet in fandom, and I admire that so much. I just want to see everyone I've met on this list continue to be well and whole in heart, and to get all the pleasure you can out of your lives, instead of believing that the only things that can make you happy are out of your reach. Valentine post over. Now I don't have to be mushy again until next year HTH ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 00:35:47 -0500 (EST) From: Elisa Shapiro To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: More Intros Message-ID: Well since all the other newbies are writing intros I might as well too. My name is Elisa, I'm a senior in a high school just outside of D.C. I've been reading Misty for like 5 or 6 years now, starting with Arrows Fall (I think). Anyway, I hate writing long messages so that's about all I'm gonna say. If you want to know more just ask me. - Elisa http://mmm.mbhs.edu/~eshapiro ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:18:37 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Mental Gifts Message-ID: >As to Tylendel being the only herald to be repudiated, I must dissagree. I >do not have the texts infront of me, but I am sure there were others. >Also, the bell tolled for Tylendel's death, somthing it only does for >/harpers/, so it would seem IMO that he was still considered a Herald it is mentioned in one of the books that only one herald was ever repudaited...i am not sure which one. i think it was AOQ...someone telling talia...no names were mentioned and they said that he was not in his right mind. i will look for the appropriate quote.... -colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:25:55 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wicca Message-ID: > That is mostly because everyone will sin in their lifetime. >Nobody has led a perfect sin-free life, excepting Jesus if you believe in >him. The reason we are all sinners before we've had a chance to mess >things up is because God transcends time. Time is something humans are >limited by. If you imagine God, and think of Him standing and looking >down on a line (our time-line) he can affect anything at any point on the >line because he isn't part of it. Therefore things that we can't see, >because we're limited by time, God sees, because he exists all the time. > > Lady Becky but most pagan and wiccan traditions see time as cycles and not liniar...that changes the whole perception of time....and thus of the ideas of cause and effect. i just wrote a paper which disscussed the diffrence between patrilinial/god/liniar traditions with matrilinial/goddess/circular traditions. if anyone is interested in reading the history of it and how it pertains to women's status today, read merlin stone's "when god was a woman". very good, very detailed anthropology book about ancient goddess religions...definately recomend it. gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:30:21 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Comparative Normality AND pentacles vs pentagrams Message-ID: Relgion is so fun to talk about isn't it? There's so much to >discuss, anyways, there seems to ba an awful lot of wiccans. I have no >idea what they are, seeing as how I am an extremely sheltered child, and >actually waking up to reality this year, it's kinda scary. Anyways, from >what someone said, I got the impression that wiccans are the modern day >witches and warlocks (and not the broom carrying black hat ones). I >didn't know there was such a thing. I love learning about other >religions, and would love to have someone explain it to me. Maybe even go >in for a deep debate > > Lady Becky (smile) yes, exactly. though i would never call a wiccan a "warlock" as the meaning is similar to the "oathbreaker" in misty's books. if you ever wish to know more, for any reason, feel free to contact me privately. i love curiosity, and i have a large library....this offer is of course, open to anyone who is curious about wicca or paganism.... -colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 366 *********************************