MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 422 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: The Firesong Situation by Adrienne York 2) re: Jadrek/the twins/the Cold Ones by Adrienne York 3) Re: the bells, the bells (esmeralda) (fwd) by Becky Anne Christensen 4) Re: Chaucer by Adrienne York 5) Re:Casting by Adrienne York 6) Re: Castings by Becky Anne Christensen 7) Re: Author! Author! by Gyrfalcon 8) Re: Casting by bregalad 9) Re: SPOILERSPOILERSPOILER Storm Rising by "Kristin A. Ruhle" 10) Tolkien by Heather Watson 11) Ranting about the gods by Heather Watson 12) Re: misogynistic dinosaurs by Heather Watson 13) Re: Do I like Talia?, the Bardic books and Windrider by Mat Timmerman 14) Re: Cool bookstores in NYC (NMLC) by Mat Timmerman 15) Casting by Becky Anne Christensen 16) Re: Casting by ThessaIy-+AT+-aol.com 17) Re: Ranting about the gods by ThessaIy-+AT+-aol.com 18) Re: Casting by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 19) Personas by Priest 20) Re: Ranting about the gods by Adrienne York 21) I have joined... by Priest 22) Language list? by Nokaih ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:37:31 -0500 (EST) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Firesong Situation Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Mar 1996, Heather Watson wrote: > Okay, so I finally got Storm Rising away from my she'enedra, and I read > it today. (Homework? Hahahaha! That was a joke, right? With midterm > grades like mine, who needs enemies?) > Now, I want to know what we're going to do about this Firesong > problem. I'm pathetically lonely in real life; I don't want characters > to have to stay that way, too. Fine, I've come to accept that it isn't > working out with An'desha. Now, it was hard for me at first, but they > obviously have separate lives to lead, and -- look, I just don't want to > talk about it right now, okay? It's a very emotional thing. > Now, I like Silverfox, but there doesn't seem to be a real spark > there. Do you think it's the kind of thing where they could learn to > love each other, or are we going to have to see a whole new character in > the third book? How about Tremane? He's lonely, too. So what if he's > straight? Love conquors all, am I right? Hey, neither of them are > getting any younger. > If it were up to you guys (which it is obviously, not to put too fine > a point on it, not), what would you do in Storm Breaking to help out > sweet Firesong? And don't say "nothing," because you'll go and make me > cry. Maybe I'm projecting, but I just don't think Firesong is ever going to be happy with just one person. He's going to get a "Tayledras mating circle" going with Silverfox, Karal, and Tremane. Now wait before you jump on my head, saying I am totally crazy. Firesong needs Silverfox for balance, Tremane because he's the only one currently unattached who has enough personality to deal with Firesong, and Karal because I want Firesong and Karal to sleep together. I just think they'd make a cute couple. And this does not mean Karal would stop hanging with Natoli. In fact, our picture would look like this: Clients | Silverfox --Firesong-- Karal -- Natoli | | Tremane I think that will make everyone, including me, very happy. _____________________________________________________________________________ L'enfant terrible ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu Grand Destinies lead to Grand Funerals. -Mercedes Lackey ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:39:36 -0500 (EST) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Jadrek/the twins/the Cold Ones Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Mar 1996 EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org wrote: > She also asked "how old are the twins?" According to the intro, they are > six at the beginning of the Winds trilogy. By the by, I've forgotten the > ref, but it's clear that Kris will be king and his sister Monarch's Own. Can somebody who remembers this reference look it up? I don't remember anything like that at all. I reemeber that *one* of them would be Monarch and and the other MO, but I don't remember Kris being named Heir presumptive and not his sister. _____________________________________________________________________________ L'enfant terrible ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu Grand Destinies lead to Grand Funerals. -Mercedes Lackey ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 12:50:01 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the bells, the bells (esmeralda) (fwd) Message-ID: Okay Gyrfalcon, give it up, we have the evidence in your own writing err, typing. You have plenty of affiliation with the MIW!!! Lady Becky The more that you read, the more things you will know. The more that you learn, the more places you'll go. --Dr. Suess *Forwarded Message* [Blip] Incoming Message: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ha ha! They are back! I have summoned back the Men In White! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Mwa ha ha ha ha... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Gerald, come take a look at this..." The large man sitting across the room put down his copy of "A Roc (snipped the rest of the story here) BTMIW! --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:45:40 -0500 (EST) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Chaucer Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, The Mage of Green Silences wrote: > Anyway, the upshot is that Karal's books must have been old, but there is > no telling whether they were a century or more old. A better indication > would be to see if there is a reference to them being "original" or not. > If they are the original manuscript, then they are prob not much older > than 100 years, 200 years tops. Otherwise, they would be too delicate to > survive a strenuous journey, let alone be pored over by Karal. > > Ken > Has anyone considered the possibility that these manuscripts are handwritten, and therefore faded and possibly chicken scratch. Particularly if these are the original *personal* journals of the Sons of the Suns, starting before they had any hint they would become SotSs. And even if they were copied by scribes, these could be faded and beaten up, or the scribes could be having a bad day, or the script could have been odd and ornamented, the Karsites go in for flourishy type things, I would guess their handwriting is the same way. Also, casual speech changes faster than formal writing. Since these are journals, it's entirely possible they're filled with slang that Karal doesn't recognize immediately. This is, I think, the simplest solution, and therefore, a good candidate for being write. But that's just IMNSHO. _____________________________________________________________________________ L'enfant terrible ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu Grand Destinies lead to Grand Funerals. -Mercedes Lackey ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:50:22 -0500 (EST) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Casting Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Mar 1996, Rosario Holsen-Baker wrote: > On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, Jill wrote: > > > >Firesong - David Bowie (2), Tim Curry, Jim Carrey (noooo!) > > > > Oh, my dear Lord .... ROTFL!!!!! And do you really know > > what's sick? I can *see* it! Not seriously, of course, but ... > > > > I'm going to be snickering about this one for quite a while.\ > > Well, he's definitly got the "ego" for it. David Bowie I can see easily, (I love _The Labyrinth_) except he's getting kind of old... I don't know that Tim Curry is cute enough, but he's got the acting ability and the sheer impishness... If you'd said Jim Carrey five years ago, I would have agreed, but now, people just want him to be a buffoon and he's too damned expensive. Besides, I don't believe I've heard of him doing anything other than a comedy, and while Misty has her moments, she is not a comic writer. Xanth, (before Magician Humphrey was found) is much funnier. _____________________________________________________________________________ L'enfant terrible ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu Grand Destinies lead to Grand Funerals. -Mercedes Lackey ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 12:58:33 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Castings Message-ID: > On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, Mary Temple wrote: > > Well, how bout Samantha Mathis as Talia? Hmm...or maybe Elspeth. She's a > little too "solid" for Talia...I always pictured Talia as being almost too > thin. :) And perhaps Faye Dunaway as...hmm...Selenay? I think that Selenay should be Robin Wright, the chick from the Princess Bride. Okay, so maybe I just have a thing for the Princess Bride. That movie if full of wonderful people that can actually swordfight! What was the name of the spanish guy that could really swordfight? You know, My name is Manuel something whatever, you killed my father, prepare to die. He would be good as hmmm, maybe one of the Tayledras... Lady Becky The more that you read, the more things you will know. The more that you learn, the more places you'll go. --Dr. Suess ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 16:09:41 -0500 From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Author! Author! Message-ID: <314B2E15.3B21-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu> Stormcloud wrote: > C.S. Friedman, the books with Gerald Tarrant. I can't remember > the name of the first one, which is driving me mad because it was > such an incredible book and I couldn't stop talking about it. The > second is called When True Night Falls. Black Sun Rising. It's the coldfire series, by Freidman. Not a set of happy books, but very well written. --Gyrfalcon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 14:16:35 -0700 (MST) From: bregalad To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Casting Message-ID: <199603162116.OAA27893-+AT+-xmission.xmission.com> > P.S. The more I think about it the more convinced I become that > it was Utah. Yes, it was Utah. In fact, I live not half a mile away from the school in question. THe legislature is still bound and determined to leep GLSA clubs out of the schools. Since the story was made public here in the state, three public teachers and one private school teacher have come forth to 'admit' (as the newspapers so aptly put it) that they are gay. Thing is, now they're banning all extra-curricular activites not essental to the academic development of school kids. Of course, this causes more hatred directed toward the lesbian, bi, and gay students of East High School. A direct quote, "It's all their fault, these damned gays." (This from a 12th grade male, speaking about his BeefEaters club, a club where 'manly men' get together and eat steak and go to tractor pulls.) What's funny is that most of the public feels the same way as the legislature. No, that's not funny. THat's frightning. Y'all know Steve Young, right? Quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers? Well, there's a rumor flying around my workplace that he's gay. To me, that's no big deal (I'm bi, just if anyone's curious). To the women I work with, it's impossible. But, if it does happen to (god forbid) be true, they've decided that they won't be fans of his anymore. Just an example of culture. Back to this East High GLSA thing, the University of Utah Fraternities and Sororities have taken to putting signs on their yards sporting pink triangles and slogans such as 'Up with Reason, Down with the Theocracy.' I completely agree. Breg -------* bregalad-+AT+-xmission.com 'After the battles and we're still around, everything once up in the air has settled down, sweep the ashes, let the silence find us. A moment of peace is worth every war behind us.' -emily saliers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 13:32:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristin A. Ruhle" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: SPOILERSPOILERSPOILER Storm Rising Message-ID: <199603162132.AA04540-+AT+-> > > SPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Kay, maybe it's because I'm not feeling well, but I wanna complain. > What is the bright idea with having everyone believe that Karal is a > traitor? I just did not buy this at all, for multiple reasons. Here > they are. > 1) Heralds are supposed to be the judiciary system of Valdemar. > Isn't it in their training not to take one person's statements at face > value? Shouldn't they be the ones who are naturally inclined to > investigate the situation further before leaping to conclusions? For > example, they could have tried to figure out where Karal would have had > the opportunity to consort with the Empire -- *exactly* what happened on > the night of Ulrich's death -- what the ambassador's motives might be > for believing this, or why he would have been the only one to put > together whatever clues he thought he had. I could go on. The point > is, if these are trained judges, they should bloody well know better > than to accept the first answer at face value. Karal was an outsider and *painfully* aware of it (not to mention that he was thrust into his role "too young" and so people don't take him seriously. Perhaps the normal rules "within" Valdemar wouldn't have applied? Anyway, he tried to hide his problems, not demand a formal hearing, which he might have had a right to. > 2. Where are the Companions? This is the quietest we've seen them > in years. Okay, so they're too arrogant to listen to young Florian, but > can't any of the rest of them see the flaws in this theory? If Talia > believed Karal's innocence, why didn't Rolan? And if Rolan did, why > didn't he knock some Companion heads together until they stopped this > nonsense? If the Herald-Companion bond means anything, Rolan *must* have known the truth (perhaps even better than Talia), but maybe the Companions didn't want to intervene because humans had to work out their own difficulties. (And they did so, eventually.) Remember, An'desha was told by the Avatars that this was one of the situations the Shin'a'in Lady *wasn't* going to intervene in. "Sorry, no supernatural allowed here, you're on your own kid." The Companions (esp a Grove-Born like Rolan) also "avatars" of a sort. Maye Rolan was under divine direction to keep quiet? > 3. What is up with Selenay? If she believes the ambassador's story, > then she's doing nothing to bring the assassin and traitor in their > midst to justice. If she doesn't believe it, then she's letting > internal dissension tear apart her Council and possibly the Alliance, > with no sign of intervention anywhere. What could she do, you ask? > This brings me to my final point. Don't you call the assassin getting *killed* (in SR) "brought to justice?" In this kind of situation a lot of "justice " is extra-legal. > 4. I don't buy for a second that no one would have hauled Karal up > under Truth Spell. It's mildly important to find out if one of the > people closest to the heart of the Valdemaran government is a murdering > traitor. You don't just leave issues like that unresolved. Oh, now in > the real world it's not so easy, but Velgarth is a world where no one > need ever go falsely accused of a crime -- certainly not in the center > of Haven with Heralds on every side and a Firecat to boot. Talia and > Kris used Truth Spell on a chicken-stealing farmgirl for Pete's sake; > you don't think someone would get the hot idea to use it on an > ambassador accused of treason? Good point, but remember, it wasn't any "formal" accusation - just VERY ugly rumors that were getting more and more out of hand. And as I said before, Karal wasn't about to formalize it. Kristin Ruhle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:44:43 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Tolkien Message-ID: <16MAR96.17004949.0042.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> All right, 'Reesa, I'll take you on. Jordan is EVERY BIT as boring as the Master :) The one thing Tolkien has going for him is originality. When he did Lord of the Rings, every other writer on earth hadn't done a quest trilogy (or more -- Good God, is TEN BOOKS really necessary? Most trilogies I read could have been one book if they hadn't wandered around so much.) just like it. The Jordan series was so slow, and SOOO derivative, that I'm sorry I read as much of it as I did. Now, Tad Williams presents an interesting problem. I love Williams' writing, truly I do. He's great. Which made it very depressing for me to watch him turn out yet another Peasant Lad Seems Ordinary, But In Fact Only He Can Face Down Ultimate Evil trilogy. Why don't the authors who are capable of doing very innovative, exciting work (i.e. Tailchaser's Song), DO that, and leave the Tolkien rip-offs to people who aren't creative enough to do anything else? But then, I'm veeery demanding about originality in my fiction. I read so bloody much of it (I average three or four fantasy novels a week), that anything I've essentially seen before is a waste of my time. Some people don't feel that strongly about it, I know. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 16:08:36 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Ranting about the gods Message-ID: <16MAR96.17435118.0042.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> I know, I know, I should quit posting while I have the flu. But I've been pondering Storm Rising, and it occurs to me that if I lived in Velgarth, I would be extremely bitter toward the gods there. Forgive me, but I think most of them seem to be utter schmucks. Through the two Storm books that I've read, we get these countless preachy explanations about how the gods never interfere, and you have to make your own mistakes and learn from them, yadda yadda. But this is hogwash! They muck around in the characters' lives all the time. Example: In SWarning, Karal tells An'desha the story of Vkandis' spectacular Christmas Karsite Clean Sweep. An'desha thinks something along the lines of, gee how direct that Vkandis is. The Star-Eyed wouldn't set a false priest on fire, she'd just push 'em off a cliff. Way to not interfere, ma'am. Example: In SRising, Talia calms Karal's fears by assuring him that without a doubt, if he were not the right ambassador to Valdemar, Vkandis would tell Solaris and Solaris would recall him. Absolutely, no doubt about it. She's that sure that Vkandis is frankly NOT going to let Solaris make any KIND of a mistake -- or any kind of a judgement call, apparently. So I guess we know from now on that if Solaris does it, it must be right. Unless Vkandis is just in a bad mood and decides to let her screw up. After all, he did let his entire priesthood screw up for six hundred years before out of the blue deciding that this was an intolerable situation. Can you blame the priests for thinking they were doing the right thing? Vkandis hadn't struck anyone down in ages, and apparently he does that when he's displeased. And if I were An'desha, I'd be fairly ticked that the Star-Eyed deigned to take my fur away, but apparently she didn't care enough to strike down Ma'ar with a bolt from the heavens two thousand years ago. Oh, false shamans she'll throw off cliffs before breakfast, but Ultimate Evil can stick around for centuries and ruin countless lives. Strikes me as a bit capricious. And how about Iftel? Man, they've obviously picked the right god. Why doesn't everyone in Velgarth start worshipping the god of Iftel? That would solve everybody's problems, since apparently he/she/it sees to it that NOTHING gets into Iftel without permission. Forget the Star-Eyed, the god of Iftel is obviously the only one in Velgarth who gets the job done on behalf of his followers. What, doesn't the Star-Eyed want to go to that much trouble? And Valdemar. What's so hot about Valdemar that they get this handy-dandy system of Companions, ensuring for all time that Valdemar will be well and wisely ruled? What, did Rethwellan just not rate? The gods are apparently quite willing to let Hardorn take its chances with corrupt kings, but oh no, that's not good enough for Valdemar. Pretty rough on your average Rethwellan peasant, don't you think? Getting born in a country where the gods don't seem to care as much as they obviously do in Valdemar. Let's face it, the fact that things are so precious happy in Valdemar is not to the credit of the Valdemarans, it's because the gods pulled a few strings for Valdemar. But just Valdemar. Everyone else is on their own. In real life, it's easier for me to be religious. The god/gods of this world really *do* let us choose our own path. If I'm a false priest, no one's going to strike me down. It's the responsibility of the rest of the world to take a cold, hard look at authority and decide whether I'm just or not, whether what I say is right or not. If I get tortured by a madman and my body is warped into some shape that causes me physical or emotional pain, no one's going to waft down from the clouds and fix it for me. Actions have results, and one person's actions can result in harm for an innocent person. But by the same token, I know that if something bad happens to me, it isn't because no higher power cares enough to intervene. They don't. They can't, not for anyone, no matter how good a person, no matter how great the injustice. It's nothing personal, and it doesn't mean they love that happy family over there better than they love me. The more I think about it, the more intolerable it seems that Joe Valdemaran can trust his local Herald and his monarch cares about his well-being first and foremost, while Joe Hardornen watches his whole family destroyed in the wake of Ancar's madness -- not because actions have reactions, but because the first king of Valdemar prayed better than the first king of Hardorn apparently did. I can live without the kind of gods who play games like that with human lives. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 16:19:36 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: misogynistic dinosaurs Message-ID: <16MAR96.17632891.0042.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Well, Morticia, I see your point. Our money does go to pay these people's salaries. But I still think you're saying some of the same things I am, just a little more so. Frankly, I would still read Misty's books if she abused her birds and cheated on Larry or whatever (or cheated on her birds and abused Larry). If her books were exactly the same, I'd read them, 'cause they're good books. Now, the more moral position is probably to refuse to finance her lifestyle, but I still have to admit, with a blush, that I read for the content of the book, not the author's character. NOW, you're right in saying that I wouldn't enjoy her books if her characters were gay-bashing wife-beating whathaveyous. Because, as I said, it's their world I'm in while I'm reading the book. That's why I usually don't watch Bond movies. Because James Bond is a schmo, and I don't want to spend time with him. I still don't know the first thing about Ian Fleming (the creator of the character, am I right?), and I don't care to. The flip side of the coin is, had Ian Fleming been a schmuck and James Bond a great guy, I'd go see the movie. Essentially, the author only matters to me inasmuch as I can percieve his/her attitudes in the context of the work. If you're willing to boycott the work of authors you don't want to support financially, more power to you. I think that's cool, but I don't intend to do it. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 18:27:08 -0500 (EST) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Do I like Talia?, the Bardic books and Windrider Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Mar 1996, Lynne Dillon wrote: > > On the topic of Windrider being about Valdemar's son - I am afriad not - > as someone (sorry I forgot who!) said, Valdemar's companion was called > something different - see Talia's Orientation class in which one of her > yearmates recounts the entire story of the founding of the Heralds - al > lthe names are in there - i read it the other night but the names are so > hard to remember!!!!!! Ah ha! An advantage to vacation is that my books are here at home! The first three Heralds and Companions were: King Valdemar/Ardatha, Herald Beltran/Kyrith (hey that sounds like Kyril -- maybe Companions can reincarnate to Heralds), and Prince Restil/Steladar. This is from page 82 of the SciFi book club omnibus "Queen's Own" version of Arrows of the Queen. Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 18:29:26 -0500 (EST) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Cool bookstores in NYC (NMLC) Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Mar 1996, Joan Ferguson wrote: > Disclaimer : NYC = New York City ; NMLC = no Mercedes Lackey content :-) > > Okay, so, I'm driving down to NYC for the weekend with my partner ... been > there tons o' times (originally from northern NJ) ... staying on the Upper > West Side, with her brother and his wife ... > > however, I don't know where the cool used/independent/whatever book stores > are these days (and you know I need so many more fantasy (etc) books in my > house ... NOT!) Heck, I live in Brooklyn and I don't know where the good ones are! There _is_ a big used book store on 13st and Broadway, but I checked, and the SF stuff is mostly recent stuff. I even went looking for S&SIII there. Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:56:30 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Casting Message-ID: Okay, I just had a rare brilliant flash of genious. How about Rock Hudson for Kris? I know he's dead, but it doesn't make that much of a difference anyways, because this movie will never be made. He's perfect, both Dirk and Kris are supposed to be really tall guys, Rock Hudson was 6'6, that's pretty tall. He's plenty handsome, and he even had dark hair! Yes, I just finished watching Pilloe Talk, starring Doris Day, and (big surprise) Rock Hudson. Lady Becky The more that you read, the more things you will know. The more that you learn, the more places you'll go. --Dr. Suess ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 13:08:08 -0500 From: ThessaIy-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Cc: ThessaIy-+AT+-aol.com Subject: Re: Casting Message-ID: <960317130807_248193793-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> YESYESYES!!!!!! Finally someone suggested Val Kilmer!!!!He could do it up wonderfully!!!! I like Jurgen Prochnow as Alberich, particularly because of his accent, it sounds Karsite. I also like Maggie Smith as Savil and Kate Beckinsale and Robert Sean Leonard as Jisa and Treven. Cary Elwes, however would only be good as Kris with dyed hair and if he drops the snobby attitude! Thess ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 13:08:06 -0500 From: ThessaIy-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Cc: ThessaIy-+AT+-aol.com Subject: Re: Ranting about the gods Message-ID: <960317130805_248193786-+AT+-mail06> In response to your rants about the gods, I reply, a) Rethwellan DOES have a system of choosing good kings, the Sword that Sings. (Oathbreakers--it's what Raschar said Idra went to look for before he raped and killed her.) b.) No one ever SAID that Vkandis and the Star-Eyed don't interfere, they say that Vkandis takes a personal interest in his people, and that the Star-Eyed says to try ALL available routes before saying there's nothing you can do. She interferes in hopeless situations when the outcome will have far-reaching reverberations or when it's reward for a job handled above and beyond the call! c.) What Andesha was saying was that if the Star-Eyed had a different approach to getting rid of idiots and buchanans. It's more symbolic to Karsites to have something set on fire because they're basically fire worshippers, and that's why they burn witches and heretics and children, or used to. The Shin'a'in don't have that symbolic awe of fire, and setting someone on fire in the middle of plains made of GRASS is primarily stupid, not awe-inspiring, whereas putting someone on a cliff, pushing him off, and making sure someone sees it is a little more...well, better for plains people, anyhow d.) I think that Vkandis struck down an idiot priest after 600 years because, again, if someone competent was not in office, Karse would go kablooey, and what happens to a god with a bunch of dead followers? Your power base is gone! I hope you can live with some of these responses, I'm new to the list, but I've read Lackey extensively, so I remember this stuff! Thess ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 14:56:53 -0500 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Casting Message-ID: <9603171956.AA08849-+AT+-water.waterw.com> ThessaIy-+AT+-aol.com wrote: >Cary Elwes, however would only be >good as Kris with dyed hair and if he drops the snobby attitude! So he dyes his hair. And the attitude works great for Kris -- he *is* a snob at times (in the library during Talia's first night at the Collegium, and before the "swimming contest" at the mid-point of Talia's Internship to name 2) Jeanne Hedge jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com ==================== 75512.1214-+AT+-compuserve.com "The truth is the one thing that nobody will believe." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950) ============ http://www.accsyst.com/jhedge/main.htm ============ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 12:08:43 -0800 (PST) From: Priest To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Personas Message-ID: Is there anyone that can give me the information for making a character? I'd really like to know since I want to create a persona. Any information that anyone can send me would be helpful. Please send it via private email to patw-+AT+-clark.edu and put the subject header as Persona Info. Thanx! :-) Priest -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-patw-+AT+-clark.edu=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- System messages we don't want to see: Keyboard not connected. Press F1 to continue. Enter any 23 digit prime number to continue -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 15:10:46 -0500 (EST) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Ranting about the gods Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Mar 1996, Heather Watson wrote: > Through the two Storm books that I've read, we get these countless > preachy explanations about how the gods never interfere, and you have to > make your own mistakes and learn from them, yadda yadda. But this is > hogwash! They muck around in the characters' lives all the time. Not so. They only interfere when it's *big* trouble that you aren't ever going to get out of by yourself. The reason it seems to us that they're always interfering is because Misty always writes about the most exciting parts of history, when there's lots of big troubles. > Example: In SWarning, Karal tells An'desha the story of Vkandis' > spectacular Christmas Karsite Clean Sweep. An'desha thinks something > along the lines of, gee how direct that Vkandis is. The Star-Eyed > wouldn't set a false priest on fire, she'd just push 'em off a cliff. > Way to not interfere, ma'am. Sungods use fire, plains goddesses use cliffs. It's just different methodology. The reason Vkandis chose now to clean is because something really big and really bad was about to happen and Karse had to work with Valdemar in order to insure its survival. The old priests would never have done that in fifty billion years. > Example: In SRising, Talia calms Karal's fears by assuring him that > without a doubt, if he were not the right ambassador to Valdemar, > Vkandis would tell Solaris and Solaris would recall him. Absolutely, no > doubt about it. She's that sure that Vkandis is frankly NOT going to > let Solaris make any KIND of a mistake -- or any kind of a judgement > call, apparently. So I guess we know from now on that if Solaris does > it, it must be right. No, it means that on something which will determine how well Karse and Valdemar survive through the mage storms, Vkandis will not let her screw up. It's not any knid of mistake, it's a really big mistake he won't let her make. (snip) > And if I were An'desha, I'd be fairly ticked that the Star-Eyed > deigned to take my fur away, but apparently she didn't care enough to > strike down Ma'ar with a bolt from the heavens two thousand years ago. > Oh, false shamans she'll throw off cliffs before breakfast, but Ultimate > Evil can stick around for centuries and ruin countless lives. Strikes > me as a bit capricious. Ma'ar wasn't doing something that would foreseeably rearrange the entire planet, or directly involved her worshippers in ways they couldn't handle themselves. False priests are a deliberate attack on the Star-Eyed, and she DOESN'T LIKE THEM. > And how about Iftel? Man, they've obviously picked the right god. > Why doesn't everyone in Velgarth start worshipping the god of Iftel? > That would solve everybody's problems, since apparently he/she/it sees > to it that NOTHING gets into Iftel without permission. Forget the > Star-Eyed, the god of Iftel is obviously the only one in Velgarth who > gets the job done on behalf of his followers. What, doesn't the > Star-Eyed want to go to that much trouble? Is anyone sure that's a god? The way Altra was talking, that's not quite as intelligent as a bond bird. About the same as a Shin'a'in war horse. Which i bright, but not terribly godly. Besides, Iftel is just weird. > And Valdemar. What's so hot about Valdemar that they get this > handy-dandy system of Companions, ensuring for all time that Valdemar > will be well and wisely ruled? What, did Rethwellan just not rate? The > gods are apparently quite willing to let Hardorn take its chances with > corrupt kings, but oh no, that's not good enough for Valdemar. Pretty > rough on your average Rethwellan peasant, don't you think? Getting born > in a country where the gods don't seem to care as much as they obviously > do in Valdemar. Let's face it, the fact that things are so precious > happy in Valdemar is not to the credit of the Valdemarans, it's because > the gods pulled a few strings for Valdemar. But just Valdemar. > Everyone else is on their own. Well, part of it is that Valdemar asked, I would think. Also, Valdemar is where all the oppressed go to live. It's sort of where people come who are kicked out of their own place, and therefore, I would think the gods would want extra protection for those who were already abused. Also, Valemdar is kind of a last place chance at acceptance, and, as such, needs some safegurads for acceptance. Also, there are lots of gods with an interest in Valdemar, 'cause there's lots of religions. Most of the others have one state religion, and therefore, one dominant god. It may be that there just isn't enough power for one god to create a Companion system. Even the things that the Star Eyed has which are similar to the Companions (the dead swordsworn and the Avatars) simply aren't as physically powerful as any Companion, because she doesn't have that much power. It may be that the cooperation among gods that one would get in a place like Valdemar is the only way to get enough power to build such a system. It's entirely possible that they just can't do it in Rethwellan or Hardorn. > In real life, it's easier for me to be religious. The god/gods of > this world really *do* let us choose our own path. If I'm a false > priest, no one's going to strike me down. It's the responsibility of > the rest of the world to take a cold, hard look at authority and decide > whether I'm just or not, whether what I say is right or not. If I get > tortured by a madman and my body is warped into some shape that causes > me physical or emotional pain, no one's going to waft down from the > clouds and fix it for me. Actions have results, and one person's > actions can result in harm for an innocent person. > But by the same token, I know that if something bad happens to me, it > isn't because no higher power cares enough to intervene. They don't. > They can't, not for anyone, no matter how good a person, no matter how > great the injustice. It's nothing personal, and it doesn't mean they > love that happy family over there better than they love me. You make it sound like you don't think miracles occur, and because nobody gets a miracle, the whole system is fair. Sort of similar to the argumentt hey used in Utah, that we don't like this one particular group, so we're not going to have any. if that's the way you want to look at life, go ahead... > The more I think about it, the more intolerable it seems that Joe > Valdemaran can trust his local Herald and his monarch cares about his > well-being first and foremost, while Joe Hardornen watches his whole > family destroyed in the wake of Ancar's madness -- not because actions > have reactions, but because the first king of Valdemar prayed better > than the first king of Hardorn apparently did. I can live without the > kind of gods who play games like that with human lives. I don't think it's a game, and I think that there are rules governing the gods about who can do what where and how much. And i think because of Valdemar's unique religious situation, the gods get to play differently there. And I don't see why it's any less that actions having reactions that give a difference between Joe valdemar and Joe Hardorn. That's like saying it's an example of the gods cosmic unfairness that Stef was born into poverty and Van part of the landed nobility. It was the result of actions that occurred before either was conceived, and it's not something that's going to destroy the planet, so the gods aren't going to change it.x _____________________________________________________________________________ L'enfant terrible ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu Grand Destinies lead to Grand Funerals. -Mercedes Lackey ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 12:20:34 -0800 (PST) From: Priest To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: I have joined... Message-ID: I thank all those who have invited me to join thier clans, but I have already chosen to join the cat people, headed by Lady Jaguar. I think it best since I _am_ part cat. Wind to thy wings Nokaih -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-patw-+AT+-clark.edu=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- System messages we don't want to see: Keyboard not connected. Press F1 to continue. Enter any 23 digit prime number to continue -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 12:46:14 -0800 (PST) From: Nokaih To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Language list? Message-ID: I remember asking for the language list that Rynath was talking about in one of the messages. But I never got a copy. Could someone send it to me? It was going around with the topic Shin'a'in word list I think. :-) Nokaih -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-patw-+AT+-clark.edu=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- System messages we don't want to see: Keyboard not connected. Press F1 to continue. Enter any 23 digit prime number to continue -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 422 *********************************