MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 432 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) re: female raltionships by Roger Dahl 2) Re: Series v. stand-alone by "Stormcloud" 3) Re:Off-topic, killings by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 4) Re: Karsites by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 5) Re: Series v. stand-alone by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 6) Re: Series vs. Stand-alones by Heather Watson 7) re: the twins (was Jadrek the twins,etc.) by EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org 8) gryphons by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 9) Re:Off-topic, killings by EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org 10) Re: First books ... by McCaffrey's White Dragon 11) Re: Eddings and Trilogies rant by mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (puppies and dragons) 12) Re: female relationships by CHONNI 13) Re: Cat People/Ladies in Green/etc. by Rosario Holsen-Baker 14) help me, oh listmistress :( by Northaven-+AT+-aol.com 15) Re: Children's Entertainment in Valdemar by Rosario Holsen-Baker 16) Re: Series vs. Stand-alones by Heather Watson 17) Looking for something... by Billie M Quam 18) Re: Karsites by "Jake (Rynath *OIB*)" <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 19) Re: Eddings and Trilogies rant by "Jake (Rynath *OIB*)" <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 20) Re: Villains by Heather Watson 21) Re: Series v. stand-alone by 5INT627-+AT+-sc.maricopa.edu 22) RE: Off-Topic, Killings (LONG) by "Jake (Rynath *OIB*)" <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 23) Re: gryphons by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 24) Re:Off-topic, killings by Roger Dahl 25) re: the twins (was Jadrek the twins,etc.) by The Mage of Green Silences 26) Re: Those d****d confusing groups! by The Mage of Green Silences ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 16:22:21 GMT From: Roger Dahl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: female raltionships Message-ID: <199603211622.QAA10238-+AT+-redleaf.bbs.no> ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) writes: > I think that really is an interesting issue. I don't know about the > other female ML readers out there, but I know I get along much > better with men than with women, partly because a large % of the > women I know do only talk about clothes, sex, and what's on tv (as > someone said earlier) And men don't? Sigh... I have only male RL friends, but how most of them can go on and on about things I consider so *trivial*... And because I'm a quiet person they seem to think that since I'm listening I must be terribly interested. No matter if I stop commenting on what's said, start yawning all the time, turn on the TV and start flicking through channels or pick up a magazine and start reading. It just doesn't get through. They just talk talk talk. I've got one friend that is passionately interested in cars, and he won't stop talking about all kinds of small technical details about them even though he knows I couldn't care less about cars. I'm a computer programmer and I've tried to interrupt and start talking about programming (he knows nothing about it and doesn't care), but that doesn't work either :) > [you forgot make-up :)] I've personally never > been too concerned with how I look (out goes clothes and make-up),I > don't talk about my private life or other's private lives unless > I've known them for a long time and consider them trustworthy > individuals (out goes the sex) and the only tv I watch is MTV, CNN, > and Discovery Channel Hey, just like me, and those are my fave channels as well :) > that really cuts down on the conversation bit, especially since not > many people read. Now what I want to know, is why don't many people > read for fun?!? God knows I do -> I'm seriously ill if I don't read > at least one book a day. One book a day? Wow... I need 10-12 hours of reading to get through the average fantasy book. Envy.... > I started reading MZB's Darkover series at > the age of 8 Wow... > I don't know - I'm confused > now - does anyone know what causes this absurd interest in > appearances and tv???? Beats me :) Why watch TV when reading books is so incredibly much more entertaining... > It > would interesting to do a study relating female IQ to the ratio of > male frinds they have. Hypothesis higher the IQ, higher the number > of male friends. Strange theory. What makes you think that? -- -+*#*+- -+*#*+- -+*#*+- -+*# Roger Dahl - rd-+AT+-redleaf.bbs.no #*+- Now Hounds of Love are Hunting ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 12:10:24 EST From: "Stormcloud" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Series v. stand-alone Message-ID: <19DFD7DED-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU> Jill wrote: > Since I started the thread about looooong series and books (ie, > Eddings, Jordan, Roberson), and several people have mentioned they > like stand-alone books, I'm going to take a moment to plug my > favorites. > > My absolute favorite book of all time, even over Misty and Anne > McCaffrey, is "ShadowsFall" by Simon Green. Which, if you've already > read it, should tell you a bit about the way my mind works. :) > Strange book ... > > "The Doomsday Book" by ... ummm .... something Willis. Drat, I > can't remember her name. THis one's a little bit more like science- > fiction, but still good. > > "A Plague of Angels" by Sherri (I think) S. Tepper. > > All stand-alone, all good (IM admittedly HO) > > Jill Morrison /// morrisjm-+AT+-sbu.edu /// Merlyn3109-+AT+-aol.com Allow me to add "The Legend of Nightfall" by Mickey Zucker Reichart (Excellent stand-alone, w/ possibilities of a sequel), "Deerskin" by Robin McKinley. "Illusion" by someone who's name I can't remember. Vorsky, I think it is. -+AT+->--- Stormcloud In the name One in Black of the Moon Jenna, the Misty maniac I'll punish you! jwil3969-+AT+-simcl.stjohns.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 17:28:52 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: vanyel.herald.co.uk!mel-+AT+-enterprise.cistron.nl (Melanie Dymond Harper), Subject: Re:Off-topic, killings Message-ID: <315186c4.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> Our beloved ListMistress wrote: > > > Really? I get angry when I think of the fact that most people only value > > life after it is gone. Why didn't someone do something about that guy in > > Scotland earlier? > > Sad but true, up until that point he had not done anything which people could > have 'done something' about. > > ObMisty: um. We don't see too much mass murder in her books, do we? Well, > except for Tashir's family. Um. > > Mel. Does the bomb in Sacred Ground count? What about Burning Water (or does that fall under mass, but single, murder?) Lady Rozanna IV Sand-cat extraordinaire ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 17:25:42 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: prodigy.com!LSFG20A-+AT+-enterprise.cistron.nl (MS KIM H MILLER), Subject: Re: Karsites Message-ID: <315186c3.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> You wrote: >"The Lark and the Wren" really had my hopes up for a while that >it would turn out to be set in Karse and deal with their societal >issues (the church's stranglehold on politics/economy/society, >the position of women in society, etc.) >I'd love to see Misty write something set within Karsite society >where heroes, villians, and ordinary folk arise from that society, >and the resolutions also come from within. >What are your thoughts? See short story called Stolen Silver in HorseFantastic for life in the Karsite Army, and more about how Alberich got Chosen Lady Rozanna IV Sand-cat extraordinaire ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 18:36:34 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: "Jill" , Subject: Re: Series v. stand-alone Message-ID: <315194d0.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> I found that Jennifer Robinson's Cheysuli series really didn't call for that much back-ground reading. I mean, I read Daughter of Lions first, and I didn't have a problem understanding it at all. Robert Jordan, on the other hand (groan) He takes so long between books, and by the time the next one comes out in HB, rereading the ones that came before will take up the time untill it comes in pbk, no problem! The only other author that takes even longer than RJ is Jean M. Auel (Clan of the Cave Bear, etc.) When is the next one going to come out (howl) She said she was contracted to do six, but there is only 4!!! Authors don't write fast enough! Anthor long series, but one that I feel is worth the read, are the fantasy books by Katherine Kerr The (blank)Spell series, followed by The Days of (blank) series. I've got the British copies, and noticed the names were different in the States, so I hope this is close enough to help. She is a good author, the books are set (loosely) in an Irish Celtic (not mainland Celtic) setting, and puts a 'new' spin on reincarnation and fate. Louise M Cooper's Sleep in Stone, and Sharon Shinn's The Shape- cahnger's wife should be read by anyone who loves adult fairy-tales (along with Jane Yolen's Briar Rose, Patricia C. Wrede's Snow White and Rose Red, Robin Mckinley's Beauty + Deerskin, Sheri S. Tepper's Beauty, and naturally ML's Fire Rose) Can anyone tell that bookstore owner's know my name and are my wallet's bane? Back to workLady Rozanna IV Sand-cat Extraordinaire "He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." - Qanuc Proverb from Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 12:02:35 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Series vs. Stand-alones Message-ID: <21MAR96.13006816.0076.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> The Doomsday Book is by Connie Willis. It's about a young historian from Oxford who travels through time into the middle of the Black Plauge at the same time that Oxford is hit by a mysterious epidemic. It's a good book. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 13:42:12 -0500 (EST) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: the twins (was Jadrek the twins,etc.) Message-ID: <960321134212.1ba4-+AT+-bpl.org> I quoted a bit from Winds of Change to say why I thought Kris would be King and his sister Monarch's Own. Adrienne objected "I would say that what we've seen about Valdemar makes me think that there's going to be a fight over who gets to Choose... and they both might get Chosen, because they'll both need the training, and I don't see Rolan becoming available by the time they reach their teens..." Sorry, let me clarify a little. I think both twins will be Chosen when they are old enough. Selenay makes them "Heir-presumptives" because the legal situation is that neither twin can be considered "Heir" without a Companion. But Talia seeks the Havens, Rolan will Chose Lyra -- which means that whichever Companion she bonds with at first will have only a temporary bonding. If Talia survives Selenay, she will be Monarch's Own to whichever twin is on the throne. What I'm arguing (albeit confusedly) is that the twins do not have an equal claim to the throne of Valdemar. Given that both of them are Chosen, and otherwise qualified, Kris, either by virtue of being first down-the-chute, or by virtue of being male, will be crowned. Does that make a little more sense? Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 20:13:28 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: Gyrfalcon , Subject: gryphons Message-ID: <3151ac43.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> For all gryphon lovers out there, here was an interesting site on the Net I'd thought I'd share: http://sashimi.wwa.com/~tirya/gryphon.html Enjoy! ObMisty: The cover art to BG is on this page! Do gryphons have problems typing? (innocent smile) Lady Rozanna IV Sand-cat Extraordinaire "He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." - Qanuc Proverb from Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:29:46 -0500 (EST) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Off-topic, killings Message-ID: <960321142946.1ba4-+AT+-bpl.org> Mel, in her ObMisty said, "we don't see too much mass murder in her books, do we?" Actually, I've often felt otherwise. The bandits who raid various borders seem to kill for fun. Ancar wiped out entire villages for power. And in chapter 5 of Arrows Fall, the Guard went berserk and wiped out a nest of bandits, who in turn, had killed the children they held hostage. And there are slavers... One of the reasons I read - and reread - Misty's books is because they are not all sweetness and light. Valdemar isn't perfect. The most that can be said is that the people who in charge are trying to make things work out right. It doesn't always work, but effort counts. Here in Boston, the big news has been about a man who shot up a clinic about a year ago. He got convicted, despite a plea of insanity, although even a casual look at his history would convince most of us that he was mentally ill. His father has taken on the guilt for not doing something about his son's state, but how often do any of us intervene when a person seems only off-balance? Someone with a mental problem gets ill gradually, and we don't always see how bad things are because they are only a little worse than they were yesterday. If for no other reason, I'm grateful to the authors of the fantasy books I've read over the years, because they have left me with the optimism to *act* when I think something has gone wrong, and to believe that my action is not without value whether it works or not. Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 13:02:46 -0800 (PST) From: McCaffrey's White Dragon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: First books ... Message-ID: Since everyone is talking about their 'firsts', I might as well follow suit. My very first SF/F story was a short story by Anne McCaffrey set in her world of Pern. The first _novel_ I ever read was Dragonflight, same author, same setting, though I didn't realize it at the time. From there I devoured every McCaffrey book I could find. I later found out that my aunt was also an avid reader of SF/F books. She then started giving me all of her old books, which was a considderable amount. That's how I became hooked on Margaret Weis, Tracy Hickman, Robert Jordan, and of course Misty, amongst others. Having no other way to choose which books to read, I'd just read the summary or whatever on the back of books I thought I might like to read. My first Misty book was BTS; the cover caught my eye and the summary my imagination. I really do love the cover artwork and think this is one instance where it was a good idea to judge a book by its cover:) See y'all! ____________________ -==UDIC==- /\ Why is he talking \ McCaffrey's White Dragon a.k.a. Jake Gipple /LR\ to that White \ / EU \ Coconut? \ < MM >-------------------> (360)887-4779 \ UE / Don't ask. / "Akigiyama levin bolts!!!!!" \RL/ Please don't ask / -Kethrey as played by B-ko \/___________________/ FRINK! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 15:48:03 -0700 (MST) From: mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (puppies and dragons) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Eddings and Trilogies rant Message-ID: <199603212248.PAA25439-+AT+-usr5.primenet.com> > >OK, I'll bite - Mirror Dance? By whom? 'Bout what? > >tot ziens, >Esmeralda Evensbane >(unaffiliated) > > Mirrio Dance is in the Miles Vorkosigan universe, written by Lois McMaster Bujold. It's about his clone, Mark, but he's in it too. I really can't say much more about it without givivng a lot away, but it VERY worth reading. ################################# Lady 'Reesa ############################## mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com Topiary- It's Green... It's all natural... It's a great way to off your enemies!!!!!<--look 5! ############ VORKOSIGAN/NAISMITH IN 96...THE REAL SPLIT TICKET! ######## ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:48:42 -0800 (PST) From: CHONNI To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: female relationships Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Mar 1996, Sanna Koulu wrote: > Lady Rozanna IV wrote: > > > I think that really is an interesting issue. I don't know about the > > other female ML readers out there, but I know I get along much better > > with men than with women, partly because a large % of the women I > > know do only talk about clothes, sex, and what's on tv (as someone > > said earlier) [you forgot make-up :)] > > Fascinating. I find it a bit strange. I have a few very close male > friends, but most of my friends are female. I get along much better > with women, since men seem to get scared by intelligent and bitchy > females. Though I have a very low tolerance for chat about the > clothes, boys etc, it's never been a problem: my friends don't seem > to find the topics all that interesting either (though we do discuss > Northern Exposure and Star Trek occasionally :). > I too find it strange. Most of my friends, who are mainly female, and I discuss anything from post-Cartesian philosophy (like arguing over how any one could like Nitezche) to postmodern poetry, films (is the Birdcage as good as the original?), and psychoanalysis to how to wear make-up for a test photo-shoot (some of my friends model for a living), and Shakespeare. Not to mention all the other people with whom I chat about fantasy novels, political ideologies and tao... I think it's a question of finding like minded people, regardless of their sex (as opposed to gender, which is mainly taught). What I would like to see is this reflected in the books I read; a positive reinforcement of intelligent women talking and solving problems with other intelligent women. Catwoman made a comment about how women tend to stick with women and men stick with men in novels, but other than in say...EDDINGS (!!!), and "women's literature", it's hard to find. I would even be happy, nay, enthusiastic, if the book were at least balanced; the main character relying on both women and men friends. Lots of people brought up examples of specific moments in the various Misty books where say, Talia or Elspeth relies on another women, but the problem is that these scenes are minor; for the big, plot driven climaxes, it's always "strong, independant woman gets help from hansome, self-reliant man". That's the issue I think needs to be addressed by sci-fi/fantasy writers of either sex. Female fantasy writers have made huge advances in the field by making capable women the norm; but I feel that new avenues have to be explored, and an awareness of what's Lacking (okay, so it's a bad pun), is the only way to create change. On a lighter note, Lady Jaguar said she'd show me her joke, if I showed her mine, so here goes my one and only Hawkbrother joke. Have you heard about the Hawkbrother who said no? Neither have I. ttfn *************************************************************************** "What are we doing tonight, Brain?""The same thing we do everynight, Pinky." "What's that?" "I have no idea." ******************************************Herald Chonni Brightwolf********* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 20:03:25 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Cat People/Ladies in Green/etc. Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, STOKES J wrote: > No fair Jaguar . If you are going to give info on the groups at least > mention the others I.E. > THE ONES IN BLACK[OIB] > The Mercs etc. > 'Cept for the page, I can only give info on the groups I'm in! I'm not privy to your secret councils, if you want to give information, you have to do it yourself! Silly Jason. :) *****LADY JAGUAR***** Leader of the Cat People Lady in Green LGMCB, DHTBB Lobe #3! "Meddle not in the affairs of cats for you are soft-skinned, and blind at night." ********************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 20:05:34 -0500 From: Northaven-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: help me, oh listmistress :( Message-ID: <960321200533_174156697-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> I am sorry for having to write the list, but my AOL program crashed, I lost all my mail (and the most important one in this case is the listproc address)....I am cancelling AOL because of many things, so will not be able to continue receiving the list :( I will have a private servor but I need a bit of time to get it set up before I could resubscribe, again, I am horribly sorry for having to post this to the list in general...but could you please remove my name from the list :,( sorry again...hope I can join again soon.... Becky Northaven Skyddan Guardian Northaven-+AT+-aol.com (but not for long) northavn-+AT+-olympus.net (will be new email address) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 20:09:30 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Children's Entertainment in Valdemar Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, Stormcloud wrote: > jlg1-+AT+-acpub.duke.edu wrote: > > Ob. Misty: I don't recall any puppet shows being put on in Velgarth > > anywhere. I wonder what they have in the way of children's entertainment... > > Maybe the Bards put on shows for kids? I remember Van's cousins > discussing some exploits of some epic ballad's hero, so they probably > listen to songs about heroes and stuff like that. > Or what about the "bad song contest" Van and Stef had in MPrice? I would have *loved* to hear that...the song about being stuck in a magic circle for sixteen years that sounded "like it'll take sixteen years to finish it!" According to...Savil, I think. :) *****LADY JAGUAR***** Leader of the Cat People Lady in Green LGMCB, DHTBB Lobe #3! "Meddle not in the affairs of cats for you are soft-skinned, and blind at night." ********************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 18:35:48 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Series vs. Stand-alones Message-ID: <21MAR96.20084704.0175.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> I enjoy series and sequels a lot, but I agree there's something uniquely appealing about a book that tells everything it needs to tell in a compact, honed-down way. They usually seem more finished, somehow, maybe even more dramatic -- especially when you don't have to wait months to find out what happens next! Now, all this is strictly personal, and very general, so don't try to convince me that trilogies can be tight and dramatic too, because I know that. But I thought, since we've been talking about non-Misty fantasy so much lately, I'd send on the last several stand-alone books I read and really enjoyed. *Bride of the Rat God*, by Barbara Hambly. This is one of the most sheerly entertaining books I've read in ages. It's set in 1920s Hollywood, and about equal parts slightly campy and really sinister, about a Chinese demon chasing a silent movie star who's slated to become a human sacrifice. I usually like Barbara Hambly, but this book more than most. *Waking the Moon*, by Elizabeth Hand. Contemporary fantasy about a nice Irish girl who encounters secret conspiracies and bizarre magic at the gothic and surreal College of the Archangels and St. John the Divine (I just love that name). When her best friend gets possessed by a very angry primal goddess, the fun just doesn't stop. (This, along with Hambly's *Bride*, go in the "No! Don't trust the jewelry!" category of fantasy fiction, along with Lord of the Rings.) *The Lions of Al-Rassan*, by Guy Gavriel Kay. This world is based on real-life medieval Spain. If you don't know anything about Spain in the middle ages, you're really missing out, because it was pretty exciting in its own right -- so exciting that Kay could lift a great fantasy plot almost straight out of 12th c. Spanish history. It's kind of a classic Romeo & Juliet thing, except that instead of lovers, the main characters are two soldiers who become great friends, one Christian and one Moslem (though Kay changes the names & details of the religions, he leaves geography and culture pretty much as he finds it). The ending is good, tearjerker Kay stuff, though since you're expecting something like this through the whole second half of the book, you should be pretty well emotionally prepared for it. *Away*, by Jane Urquhart. I don't know if this counts as fantasy or not. It's very mystical, but mainly it's a historical novel set in Ireland and Canada in the early 19th c. Check your library for it, if this kind of thing interests you, because it's beautifully, beautifully written and very sweet. It's very Irish, and very romantic -- though some would say that's redundant. *The Wolf in Winter*, by Paula Volsky. For those of you (like me) who really loved Macbeth and Othello. This is the tragedy of a good man gone bad, addicted to magic and guilty of horrible murders, fighting a losing battle to be a good king as his sanity slowly melts away. Those of you who were interested in fantasy from the perspective of the "villain," this is your book. Kinda chilling, but really neat, and the setting is unique -- more 17th century Russia than 13th century England like standard fantasy. And always, always, I recommend Swordspoint. (Seanna, isn't it great? I love the scene where Alec takes Richard shopping for new clothes! And the theater sequence...and...well, all of it!) But hopefully this will give you some interesting new directions to go in, next time you run out of things to read. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 19:23:37 -0600 (CST) From: Billie M Quam To: mercedes lackey Subject: Looking for something... Message-ID: I'm looking for where I could get the short strories that started out the Oathbound sequences...Not just where they are but how I can get hold of them...Thanx... ------------------------------ Date: 21 Mar 96 21:31:02 EST From: "Jake (Rynath *OIB*)" <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: Karsites Message-ID: <960322023102_102744.2515_GHT77-3-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> MS KIM H MILLER wrote: ."The Lark and the Wren" really had my hopes up for a while that .it would turn out to be set in Karse and deal with their societal .issues (the church's stranglehold on politics/economy/society, .the position of women in society, etc.) IIRC, this book was in the Bardic Voices series, not the Velgarath series. I think they're two completely different worlds (or, is there some sort of tie-in I don't know about?) (I'm still working on my Misty Grand Unification Theory here, and I'm working on the Bards books... ) .I'd love to see Misty write something set within Karsite society .where heroes, villians, and ordinary folk arise from that society, .and the resolutions also come from within. (/sarcasm on) Gasp! A Velgarath book without heralds?! (/sarcasm off) Seriously, that could be a good idea... Misty moving away from all the Valdemar stuff and exploring the rest of the world. I know the Mage Wars didn't have heralds, either, but a present-day series set like that sounds pretty cool. Although, on second hand, forget about Karse--I want to hear about IFTEL! I'halla shansu, =========================== Rynath (OIB) / Jake ======================= "Oochlay yoo-ma.. Chess bookoo-too ta chkeest-a CHKREN-ko, ya ol-chka." =========================102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com =================== ------------------------------ Date: 21 Mar 96 21:36:10 EST From: "Jake (Rynath *OIB*)" <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: Eddings and Trilogies rant Message-ID: <960322023609_102744.2515_GHT77-4-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Puppies and Dragons (TSR's cute roleplaying game for kids) wrote: .First point: I do beleive that the Di books are listed as the .Diana Tregarde Investigations, either inside the cover, or in the .Books in Print list. Now that I think about it, you're right..... but still it's an uncreative name. "There can be only one... sentence here," he says. .Also, Villians By Neccesity is .a stand alone (so far ) Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This book was good good good. This post is weird indeed, but what else do you expect from a Communication Arts Major? I'halla shansu, =========================== Rynath (OIB) / Jake ======================= "Oochlay yoo-ma.. Chess bookoo-too ta chkeest-a CHKREN-ko, ya ol-chka." =========================102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com =================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 21:20:30 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Villains Message-ID: <21MAR96.23049379.0179.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Why would anyone bother with a book about Ma'ar? We all know what he'll do. He'll do bad things. 'Cause he's bad. As far as I can tell, he has no motivations, other than ultimate power and hurting people, and he certainly has no internal conflicts nor does he have things he cares about. There's never been a flicker of complexity in anything we've seen about him. You might as well write a book about Thalhkarsh. It would be dull. He'd do a bunch of bad stuff, murder, rape, pillage, the usual, and then he'd get killed or he'd suicide. See, I already know what happens, so I don't have to pay $5.99 for the book. Even bad guys should be interesting, if they're the protaganist. Read The Wolf of Winter or Tigana if you want bad guys. Ma'ar? I think we've pretty much plumbed that character for all the depth we're going to get in the Winds trilogy. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 20:20:14 -0700 (MST) From: 5INT627-+AT+-sc.maricopa.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Series v. stand-alone Message-ID: <01I2M2VLFLY0006G3V-+AT+-sc.maricopa.edu> About Jen Aeul(sp?), last I heard the last two books are written but the publication has been tied up in a court battle. As to favorite stand-alones, try _Oath of Swords_ by David Weber, _Insurrection_ by Weber and Steve White, or _Path of the Fury_ by Weber. They're all awesome. OBMisty: I still think that Charlton Heston would make a great Tayledras, or maybe even a good Urvon. Bahzell Banahkson (Edward) Champion of Tomanak Prince of the Horse-Stealer Hradani One in Black ------------------------------ Date: 21 Mar 96 22:24:17 EST From: "Jake (Rynath *OIB*)" <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: RE: Off-Topic, Killings (LONG) Message-ID: <960322032416_102744.2515_GHT44-2-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> I originally sent this via private mail, but I see so many people are talking about it on list I have to toss my own hat in. RE: Copy of: Re:Off-topic, killings (PRIVATE MAIL) Rozanna, You wrote on the Misty Mailing List: .Can someone tell me something (boy is this going to sound crass, .brace yourselves) - why does the media, and people in general, tend .to have a more violent reaction to the massacre of children (re .dunblane incident, and OK city bombing). If the same number of adults .had been killed in a drive by shooting kind of thing in the States, .it would probably not make international headlines - but when .children are involved, the story hits the headlines and stays there .for a long time. I mean people are people, damn it, and why should .age matter? How is the sorrow of losing someone age 5 greater than .the sorrow of losing someone age 55? Why do people in general tend to have a violent reaction? I think it parallels the way people feel about harm done to children in general. Children are young and (presumably) innocent. Harm done to the unknowing innocent--those that cannot fight back--touches a chord in people's hearts. Whether it's terrorism or murder or even rape. If you look at the criminal culture, you will see that child abusers/rapists are seen as the scum of the criminals. Other criminals--often, those who have done even worser (?) things--still have an empathy for small children. It's just something that is *not done,* in their mindset. Why does the media go nuts? Well, I'm a journalist and I feel that we go nuts because it's what the people want to see. People see it as an outrage when children are killed; how could a business not put something the public would feel with on the front page? The media, unfortunately, is a business first and an information service second. The media doesn't ignore other incidents (the elderly are also seen as helpless and their murders are similar to children's in that the public sees them as defenseless), but the murder of children is something more barbaric than your standard murder. Not that standard murder is something to brush off. Loss of any human life is terrible. It's just that the public seems to be more interested in the murders of children more. Because I suppose it's all the more tragic. Let me try and explain. For argument's sake, let's say there's a busload of 20 kids, all aged five and six, and they're wiped out by some lunatic bomber. That's 20 children who have never experienced real life. They missed out on so much! All those opportunities were destroyed with the children. I think that's much more terrible than the murder of, say, a 55-year-old. The murder of a 55-year-old is terrible, but (sadly) it's not as big of a loss in people's minds because she lived 55 years. Terrorism is very cowardly, in my opinion. It's so... dishonorable. That may strike you as weird, but I think that's true. Innocents, even civilians, really shouldn't be harmed in squabbles between others. Standardized murder (such as war) and unprovoked murder (such as terrorism) are two different things. I can understand sending two armies to fight each other, but I can never understand the need for terrorism. It's cowardly. How can we fear a coward? How can we respect one? I have no sympathy for terrorists--one of the few reasons I could think of to do really nasty, torturous things to people. I hope this doesn't come off as uncaring. All human life, as you said, is important no matter what age they are. But some seem to be more important than others. I know you didn't expect such an invigorated response, but this is something which strikes a chord with me. Blessed Be, Jake 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 96 14:39:36 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: gryphons Message-ID: <9603220439.AA03884-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Rozanna: > ObMisty: The cover art to BG is on this page! Do gryphons have > problems typing? (innocent smile) *grin* I done a bad bad thing introducing the ObMisty idea. :) That and the !!!!! (5!) I think constitute a very speckled past. :) Okay, I really did have a reason for posting.. :) ObMisty: Eagle & Nightingale (or whatever the right title is) is now out in paperback in Australia, Dymocks, though I haven't bought it yet due to lack of cash and not being totally infatuated with the Bards Tale series. Do any of the Aussies know when Silver Gryphon is out here? Cheers, Kerry. "Remember how they taught you. / How much of it was fear? Refuse to hand it down. / The legacy stops here!" - Melissa Etheridge from "Silent Legacy" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 20:47:30 GMT From: Roger Dahl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Off-topic, killings Message-ID: <199603212047.UAA10636-+AT+-redleaf.bbs.no> mel-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk (Melanie Dymond Harper) writes: > ObMisty: um. We don't see too much mass murder in her books, do we? Well, > except for Tashir's family. Um. And Kerowyns family. I've just finished the book. It was absolutely wonderfull. oh-more-lackey-i-gotta-read-more-lackey...! :) -- -+*#*+- -+*#*+- -+*#*+- -+*# Roger Dahl - rd-+AT+-redleaf.bbs.no #*+- Now Hounds of Love are Hunting ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 00:31:25 -0500 (EST) From: The Mage of Green Silences To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: the twins (was Jadrek the twins,etc.) Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Mar 1996, Adrienne York wrote: > On Wed, 20 Mar 1996 CDyeboston-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > > > p. 16 US HB > > > > "And it wasn't a premonition of "doom" or anything like one. IT was just the > > feeling that she was never going to rule. That one of the twins was going to > > have the throne, and the other-- > > _The other would be King's Own. Not a bad arrangement, since they aren't > > at all alike. Wouldn't be the first time that sibs were Monarch and > > Monarch's Own._" > > > > Now Elspeth, being the Heir, is probably an authority on the law of > > succession in Valdemar, so we can be sure that she has taken that into > > account. Selenay makes the twins joint-heir presumptives in Winds of Fury, > > but I'd guess that Kris is the elder by some minutes, or there is some > > legalistic preference toward males. Or Elspeth has had a genuine > > premonition. Her thoughts distinguish between "King's Own" and "Monarch's > > Own" within moments, though, so it isn't just a matter of carelessness. > > [deletia concerning Misty's subtlety] I still don't see any indication of which twin will get the throne. Elspeth just thinks that "one" of them will be. But she doesn't seem to indicate any idea of *which* one. Oh, I'll admit, given the clear patriarchal structure of Valdemar's culture, Kris will prob get the crown, but there is certainly enough laxness in the customs to let his sister rule. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 00:42:17 -0500 (EST) From: The Mage of Green Silences To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Those d****d confusing groups! Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Mar 1996, MS KIM H MILLER wrote: > I have a question, though. Are the groups equal opportunity? Can > a man join the Ladies in Green? Can a woman join the Men in White? > And what if I own a dog - am I excluded from the Cat People? I don't know about TMIW and the CP, but the LIG have admitted me to their ranks and I am a man (or at least I was, the last time I checked). May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. A Champion of the Ladies in Green Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 432 *********************************