MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 448 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: cried over characters was kris by Heather Watson 2) Re: Stand-alone vs. Series by BLevandows-+AT+-aol.com 3) re: stone as kethry/kero/Beauty/huff by Vivian Choh 4) Re: cried over characters was kris by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 5) Re: ObMisty by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 6) Elementals; Was: re: stone as kethry/kero/Beauty/huff by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 7) Re: cried over characters was re kris by Rosario Holsen-Baker 8) Re: What-if??? by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 9) Re: rehashing Talia's gifts by aaron douglas bilodeau 10) Re: rehashing Talia's gifts by aaron douglas bilodeau 11) Re: 3-fold Goddesses by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 12) Re: Companion-names by aaron douglas bilodeau 13) Re: Katherine Kerr (was Re: Series v. stand-alone) by STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 14) Re: Astrology on Velgarth by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 15) Re: Fire Rose (SPOILERS) by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 16) Re: Booklovers, was Re: Women's Lit by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 17) Re: Shaych Monarchs by Heather Watson 18) Re: Elementals; Was: re: stone as kethry/kero/Beauty/huff by Adrienne York 19) Re: poll by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 20) Tarma by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 21) Re: Booklovers, was Re: Women's Lit by Rosario Holsen-Baker 22) Re: rehashing Talia's gifts by Queen of the Darned ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 22:10:48 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: cried over characters was kris Message-ID: <31MAR96.23954705.0162.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Regarding Jaysen and his relationship with Vanyel: If you are now or ever have been gay , you'll realize that you cut down a lot on your supply of friends if you never forgive people for their early prejudices and stupid attitudes. I try to encourage cruelly ignorant people to change their thinking by rewarding them when they show signs of increased open-mindedness. Jaysen was obviously uncomfortable with 'Lendel's sexuality, and Vanyel's by extention; that colored his thoughts, as did the sheer pain of losing a friend. I would have thought the less of Vanyel if he had refused to forgive someone who rethought their prejudices in a less emotionally overwrought moment and made overtures of friendship, as Jaysen did. It's rare and brave for someone to examine their own blind spots, and I admire Jays for doing it. A man like that is good friend material. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 23:10:57 -0500 From: BLevandows-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Stand-alone vs. Series Message-ID: <960331231033_366724666-+AT+-mail06> Melanie Rawn has a new series (which means just out in paperback to me). It works as a series or a stand alone. The Exiles, The Ruins or Ambrai. I could not put it down and it's 700 or so pages. 'Can't say enough good things about this book...you like Misty, you'll love this. If anyone's interested...other favorite authors are Guy Gaviriel Kay and Charles de Lint's books are just wonderful. The Ivory and the Horn was just released. Happy Reading! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 23:45:46 -0500 (EST) From: Vivian Choh To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: stone as kethry/kero/Beauty/huff Message-ID: Hey there all! Well I really hadn't intended to add to the votes/suggestions for casting actors since it seems to be a never-dying thread but... On Sun, 31 Mar 1996 Susan5683-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Sharon Stone for Kethry? heres why, she is very pretty but again there is a I just wanted to talk about Sharon Stone for a bit. I remember reading someone's suggestion for Stone as Kero (sorry, don't remember who that was). I tend to agree with that suggestion instead of Stone as Kethry. At the recent Academy Awards, I was struck by how much Stone looks like the Kero of the cover of my version of BTS. I think it was the facial structure or her jaw or something... Anyway, to me at least, physically, Stone would be a good representation for Kero. re: Beauty/Donkeyskin/McKinley Someone (I'm sorry I again forget who) mentioned that the McKinley books were part of series, while others refuted this statement. I don't know anything about the McKinley books being in a series, but I did notice that Donkeyskin (Yup, I'm heeding all your suggestions - well, for the suggestions that I can find anyways!! BTW - really liked the Huff stuff - more on that later) was a bit similar to "Hero of the Crown" (hope I'm not giving any spoilers here - spoilers are for books that are still only available in hardcover, yes?). Most noticeable I thought was the presence of the loyal pet (dog in deerskin/horse in hero), their great struggle to survive (from father in deerskin/from dragon in hero) and the sense of isolation, esp. during the "fight to survive", although the latter may just be the way McKinley writes. Come to think of it, even Beauty was a bit isolated, although she had no life-threatening struggle, so perhaps it's not so much "isolated" as "lonely". There was also the mention in Deerskin somewhere, that no dragons had been killed since Aerin. I thought that was kinda neat. Maybe that's what whoever-it-was-whose-name -I've-forgotten was talking about when s/he said that the McKinley books were a series? (They all take place in the same world?) re: Huff Finally read "sing the four quarters" and "the fifth quarter" (is the character's name (vree) yet another huff-lackey link!!???). I thought it was very interesting how the list was recently discussing acceptance for gay rights and all that and how in this book, it's so accepted that a royal uncle was expected to partner to another prince (for an "advantageous political joining") instead of to a princess. Now THAT'S what I would call acceptance/acknowledgement. For the family to search for someeone that this prince could be happy with instead of saddling him with a princess with whom he would definitely be unhappy? First time I'd seen that in the book. (Actually first time I'd ever been presented with the possibility.. It's never happened in "real" life, has it?) I guess I need an ObMisty here: Well, given that Misty has made some parts of Velgarth quite accepting of alternative lifestyles, why didn't we ever come across a similar situation as the one as in "SingTFQ"? Or HAS she presented this idea but I missed it/haven't come across it yet (haven't yet read silver or white gryphon, storm II, or any of the newer misty books yet). Vanyel doesn't really count. I'm thinking more of royals, royals who're responsible for governing and the like. Besides, Vanyel's relationships weren't readily accepted by all of Valdemar, right? (Urgh, it's been YEARS since I read the LHM series). oh yeah, and did anyone else find the concept of the air kigh similar to the vrondi (not the kigh themselves. the air kigh ARE different from the vrondi, I know that! rather the idea of air elementals, and how those possessing the talent/gift can -- well, I don't really want to say "use"; it sounds a bit harsh, but I think you get the idea - um, access? communicate with? -- them)? I DO like the way how, even if huff's idea of the air kigh was inspired by the vrondi, she took it one step further, making the fire, water and earth kigh, thereby distancing any similarities to lackey's air elementals. Whoa! This post turned out longer than I'd anticipated. Sorry for the length folks! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vivian Choh "I'm all that I claim to be. I simply have not bi189-+AT+-torfree.net claimed all that I am." v.choh-+AT+-utoronto.ca - M. Lackey, "Oathbreakers" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 96 16:50:53 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: cried over characters was kris Message-ID: <9604010650.AA18560-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Heather Watson (HTH) wrote: > Regarding Jaysen and his relationship with Vanyel: > If you are now or ever have been gay , you'll realize that you cut > down a lot on your supply of friends if you never forgive people for > their early prejudices and stupid attitudes. I try to encourage cruelly > ignorant people to change their thinking by rewarding them when they > show signs of increased open-mindedness. Absolutely. And it's not just with the gay thing either - I think everyone at one time or other has been snapped at unfairly by another person who's under stress. To refuse to forgive them for a momentary lapse is generally the mark of a small person - yes their comment may hurt (and more than likely will never quite be forgotten) but to wrap your hurt to yourself and refuse to get over it is juvenile. And Jaysen didn't even verbalise his thoughts - being in a group where people can pick up on stray thoughts even when you're shielded would be quite difficult. I'm not sure my thoughts are always that sanitary/polite/ tactful that they could stand scrutiny at any time, particularly when I was exhausted or tired or grief-stricken. > Jaysen was obviously uncomfortable with 'Lendel's sexuality, and > Vanyel's by extention; that colored his thoughts, as did the sheer pain > of losing a friend. I didn't think Jaysen was that uncomfortable with 'Lendel's sexuality, more that he was uncomfortable with that sexuality in general, but that in 'Lendel's case, the sexuality was just one part of 'Lendel-the-friend. I haven't read LHM in a little while (probably almost 1.5 months now ) but I got the impression that Jaysen was blaming Van for 'Lendel's death, perceiving him as -using- 'Lendel and Van interpreted that, quite rightly, as being condemned for what he had with 'Lendel. It was a difference in perception as to what he had with 'Lendel - Van knew it was love, Jays thought it was a very casual thing. Hmm, I begin to ramble, I'll stop now. :) > I would have thought the less of Vanyel if he had > refused to forgive someone who rethought their prejudices in a less > emotionally overwrought moment and made overtures of friendship, as > Jaysen did. It's rare and brave for someone to examine their own blind > spots, and I admire Jays for doing it. A man like that is good friend > material. Absolutely. That was one of the things that struck me as the mark of a true Herald, rather than all the dashing off into danger & throwing themselves in front of the enemies of the Kingdom.. it seems more noble to be brave as Jays did, than the risking of physical danger.. Cheers, Kerry. "A room without books is as a body without a soul." -- Sir John Lubbock, Lord Avebury (1834-1913) British banker, scientist, author ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 96 17:04:40 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ObMisty Message-ID: <9604010704.AA19755-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Heya all, Not to be the list wet-blanket or to step on Mel's perogatives *grin*, but could we keep an eye on the fluff-level (as in Non-Misty & non-book related stuff) and the general length of sigs on the list? Four lines for a sig is the normal maximum polite length on the net. While I'm busy with a wish list, ObMisty's are a good idea, and the Un-ObMisty was funny the first time it appeared, and the first hundred and even the second, but well.. it begins to pall. :) *grin* And yes, it's Monday. :) Cheers, Kerry. "Oh, and for the record, if they kill me, this was NOT a good idea on my part." -- Marcus, "Exogenesis" Babylon 5. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 96 17:21:22 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Elementals; Was: re: stone as kethry/kero/Beauty/huff Message-ID: <9604010721.AA20641-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Vivian Cho wrote: > I guess I need an ObMisty here: Well, given that Misty has made some > parts of Velgarth quite accepting of alternative lifestyles, why didn't we > ever come across a similar situation as the one as in "SingTFQ"? Or HAS > she presented this idea but I missed it/haven't come across it yet > (haven't yet read silver or white gryphon, storm II, or any of the newer > misty books yet). Vanyel doesn't really count. I'm thinking more of > royals, royals who're responsible for governing and the like. Besides, > Vanyel's relationships weren't readily accepted by all of Valdemar, right? Good point. Maybe it's just a case of odds that either a shaych ruler never cropped up, or if they did, then there were no other shaych rulers at the time and they had to make a political marriage. (Horrible, but given the general level of dedication of Heralds, not out of the question). Maybe that was what Vanyel was alluding to when he mused on the difficulty of Mind-speaking Herald-rulers having to make marriages of convenience with people whom they could never love. Depressing thought - bad enough to be a mind-speaking herald wedded to a non-mind-speaker, but to be wedded to someone for whom you wouldn't feel physical desire but still have to engender heirs. Messy. More likely, Misty just didn't think of it.. (I was going to mention the difficulty of rulers requiring heirs, but there are so many ways around that, that it becomes a negligible factor.) Hmm, tangential thought - if mind-speaking heralds have so many difficulties having relationships with non-mind-speakers, does that mean that down through the history of Valdemar there's been the equivalent of a breeding program? I mean in the sense that mind-speakers breed with mind-speakers.. and indeed, heralds with heralds perhaps. (Do heralds have children in general?). If that's the case, it's no wonder Valdemar has such a monopoly on mind-talents. > oh yeah, and did > anyone else find the concept of the air kigh similar to the vrondi (not > the kigh themselves. the air kigh ARE different from the vrondi, I know > that! rather the idea of air elementals, and how those possessing the > talent/gift can -- well, I don't really want to say "use"; it sounds a bit > harsh, but I think you get the idea - um, access? communicate with? -- > them)? I DO like the way how, even if huff's idea of the air kigh was > inspired by the vrondi, she took it one step further, making the fire, > water and earth kigh, thereby distancing any similarities to lackey's air > elementals. Actually Misty does have at least fire elementals. Paraphrasing from memory Magic's Promise "He [Vanyel] sent a Sandaar, a fire elemental raging at the other mage's face". There are -lots- of elementals in Misty's world, and in fact the Vrondii are just one species of elemental that only the Herald-mages & Tayledras have discovered.. The fact that we don't see more of them is more because Herald-Mages don't use elementals much, preferring to work directly with energy. White Winds / Blue Mountain mages seem to work with elementals more. > Whoa! This post turned out longer than I'd anticipated. Sorry for the > length folks! *grin* Lengthy posts are cool.. :) Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 04:54:52 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: cried over characters was re kris Message-ID: Heather wrote: > > To both questions, I agree wholeheartedly. I just have one little > question about the Van/suicide situation, though. I realize Jaysen saw the > error of his ways, but would you have forgiven the man if you had heard those > thoughts. And then become one of his best friends. Wouldn't they always be in > the way? > Not if both were Heralds. I get the feeling that with Heralds, almost anything can and will happen. I'm just waiting for a Herald candidate to actually turn bad and get *really* repudiated! *****LADY JAGUAR***** Leader of the Cat People Lady in Green LGMCB Conspirator #14, DHTBB Lobe #3! "Meddle not in the affairs of cats for you are soft-skinned, and blind at night." ********************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:00:45 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: aaron douglas bilodeau , Subject: Re: What-if??? Message-ID: <315fb790.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> Summerstorm wrote: > > > On Thu, 28 Mar 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote: > > > > > > think you are absolutely right, the companions got taught a valuable lesson > > > by the STAREYED!!! > > > > > > susan > > > > > > Errr.... what's the argument thread here????? Who's right? I'm lost > > again! WAH! Any more knights in shining brain cells willing to help > > (testosterone is optional) > > > > > > /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ > > Lady Rozanna IV e-mail: rozanm-+AT+-webster.nl > > Sand-cat Extraordinaire > > > > Soon to be a Darkover Renunciate > > /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ > > > > > > > > Precisely. > > Summerstorm (the infuriating) ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You ARE infuriating (grin) If i didn't feel I wouldget swatted by all and sundry, and recommend that you change your name to . . . (drum roll . . . ) LESLAC!!!! obmisty: How come there are not as many fools, and stupid people in Misty's world as there are in our own mundane world? (Yep, I've had another "discussion" with my boss) /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Rozanna n'ha Iris e-mail: rozanm-+AT+-webster.nl Sand-cat Extraordinaire Member of the Cat People /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 08:07:08 -0500 (EST) From: aaron douglas bilodeau To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: rehashing Talia's gifts Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Mar 1996, Birgit Hanel wrote: [snip] > Rolan talked to Talia when he chose her and made her forget the fact > afterwards (for some obscure, Companion-like reasons ). > So we read that Talia has no direct Mindspeech, but how did Rolan tell her > about Elspeth's progress in learning magic (WoChange)? IIRC Gwena told Rolan > who told Talia who told Selenay. How's that supposed to work if Talia > cannot "talk" to Rolan? > > Somewhat confused > > Khenta Blaufalk > aka the yet nameless Dragonlady > > > Well, I was wondering about this, too, and I finally settled on Rolan deciding to stop being such a dweeb. Companions can mindspeak anyone they want to, even the unGifted; therefore, Rolan was just playing some kind of elaborate mindgame with Talia or something. Perhaps he initially refrained from using mindspeech as some kind of test? Lord and Lady, though, his advice would have been damned useful at times! Also, I recall Talia's orientaion class; Teren assured the class that their companions _would_ speak to them again, providing Talia with a measure of relief. This could have been from the assumption that nearly all Heralds possess some rudimentery Mindspeech, but Teren doesn't seem like the type of guy to make statements like that. (At least, I think it was Teren...) Summerstorm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 08:26:09 -0500 (EST) From: aaron douglas bilodeau To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: rehashing Talia's gifts Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Mar 1996, deanca wrote: > I refer you to the infamous orientation class in AOTQ. They say that > and I quote"-but if you thought your Companion spoke to you when he > Chose you, you were right. He did. No matter if you never have more > than a touch of a gift, your Companion will always speak to you in > your heart at that moment-even if he never does so again. I wasn't > something you dreamed. And if you have the right Gift, one day you'll > learn to speak back." > -Free Bard Oriole > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [sig snipped] Ah, it looks as though I misremembered. Kindly disregard my last message along this string. However, on another note, did anyone else notice just how many Gifts Talia had? Empathy, of course, and MindHealing. Then there's that "touch" of Mindspeech and Farsight. Finally, as I recall, Jadus said she had a bit of the Bardic Talent! (A useful Gift for QO.) Later, I couldn't help wondering if that was another "touch" of ForeSight in Sorrows with that feeling they ought to move the supplies, but more likely that was just one of the spirits placing the idea into her head. Still, all those touches of gifts certainly round out Selenay's Own Herald! Summerstorm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:12:41 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: The Mage of Green Silences , Subject: Re: 3-fold Goddesses Message-ID: <315fe677.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> Dancing around with glee! It's my birthday and my mom gave me the Encyclopedia of Celtic Wisdom!!!! Joy! Happiness! ObMisty: MZB has written things like Mists of Avalon, and the Ruins of Isis -> do you think misty would ever write something like this (e.g. re-telling the oddessey (sp)) What would you like to see her do? I want the Wild Hunt!!! /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Rozanna n'ha Iris e-mail: rozanm-+AT+-webster.nl Sand-cat Extraordinaire Member of the Cat People /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 08:50:28 -0500 (EST) From: aaron douglas bilodeau To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Companion-names Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 1996 HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu wrote: > *****i don't think we have actual proof that heralds come back as heralds only > as > companions but dont see why they couldn;t reincarnation is > reincarnation--besides i always feel as though a companion wears a companion > shape only when we are looking at him or her > there have been several references to people seeing vaguely human shapes when > looking at companions***** > > > > > Let's see, Gwena slips and says Sayvil when she's talking about Savil > in Winds of Change. Vanyel does get the impression of Yfandes being a young > lady once. Karal sees a "young man about his own age, thin, earnest, with dark > hair and eyes, dressed in Herald's Whites" when he looks at Florian when he has > his mind open to him. Storm Rising, pg56. (Have the two books with me (: ) > Also, in Storm Warning, he and Ulrich shock the H*ll out of Rubrik when > they mention that their Firecats are believed to be the reincarnations of > former Sons of the Sun and the reason there as many as Companions is because > there were a heck of a lot more dead Heralds than Sons of the Sun. Rubrik is, > to say the least, floored. Storm Warning, pg 114-115. :) > > Heather :) > > *The floor is now open for the debate about to take place.* > Van tells Stefen that "Most Heralds have a couple of choices; they can go on to the Havens, or come back like the Tayledras say people come back-I was given another option." in Magic's Price, page 331. In selfsame book, there's plenty of evidence that Stefen is Tylendel reincarnated (I'm not gonna bother listing them). Now we are all pretty sure by now that most Companions are dead Hearlds who wanted to continue to serve Valdemar. However, there's nothing to say that Heralds only come back as Companions. In fact, Stefen is pretty much proof that they don't. Furthermore, Tylendel/Stefen came back in a form that allowed him to serve Valdemar as well as any Companion, if not better. Until more information becomes available to me, I will continue to assume that a Herald's soul will always be devoted to Valdemar. Some may seek the Havens, but a fitting reward for years of selfless sacrifice would be to choose your next form. Be it Herald, Bard, Companion or Cook, a Herald is a Herald forever. Remember how Talia kept getting those feelings of familiarity or 'rightness' early in AotQ? And how the Chosen nearly always choose to become Heralds? Almost as if it's something they "just have to do". It's like an addiction. An addiction of the soul, perhaps? Summerstorm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:48:09 GMT From: STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Katherine Kerr (was Re: Series v. stand-alone) Message-ID: <43DCACB7B82-+AT+-EXCALIBUR.MMU.AC.UK> >And BTW - so far, I'm not getting too good vibes about who >Cullyn is reincarnated from, and what that means for Jill. >Mat Stick with it Matt, things come right in the end. Kalen Shena Vuysher'edras[OIB] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:46:11 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: UKCC.uky.edu!JWSCHM00-+AT+-enterprise.cistron.nl, Subject: Re: Astrology on Velgarth Message-ID: <315ffde0.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> > Quick note replying to something someone said (can't quote with > this editor--that I know of). > > Didn't Jadrek pose as an astrologer when Kethry, Tarma and he > were plotting Char's downfall? > > Mistfox IIRC, Jadrek was a very learned man (Kethry was made that he was left to mildew just because of a injury/ limp/ whatever) he could do astronomy. But, every knows by now. . . me-+AT+-Amsterdam, books-+AT+- houston! BTW, has anyway wondered way so many bad guys are Charles? (Charliss from Tarma/kethry, Charliss of the empire, and another one. . . err, forgotten!) /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Rozanna n'ha Iris e-mail: rozanm-+AT+-webster.nl Sand-cat Extraordinaire Member of the Cat People /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:50:31 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: Adrienne York , Subject: Re: Fire Rose (SPOILERS) Message-ID: <315ffde2.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> You wrote: > On Fri, 29 Mar 1996 JSteinb103-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > > > I was disappointed when I realized it was basically a retelling of Beauty and > > the Beast. Misty is usually so creative and has new stories to tell. This > > was way too predictible. (Should I put on flame-proof armor now?) I also > > had a problem with the use of magic for personal material gain. > > Beauty and the Beast is one of my favorite plots. I always adore hearing > it over, and over again. Me too, me too! > What's wrong with using magic for personal gain? Does one deride an > artist for selling her work, or a writer for selling her books? How > about an actor, for selling their ability to get people to believe > something that isn't true, momentarily? Or a scientist who works for a > commercial company? IMO, capitalism is all about getting other people to > pay you to do what you want. If what you want to do is magic, why not > earn money as you do so? sig snip I don't think there is anything wrong in using any tool at your disposal to improve your own lifestyle, as long as you don't hurt any one else (okay, so I've just about admitted to being Wiccan, sue me!) "An it harm none, do as ye will!" /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Rozanna n'ha Iris e-mail: rozanm-+AT+-webster.nl Sand-cat Extraordinaire Member of the Cat People /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:58:41 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: George of the Jungle , Subject: Re: Booklovers, was Re: Women's Lit Message-ID: <315ffde4.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> > On Fri, 29 Mar 1996 dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl wrote: > > > I have hundreds of books, and very few are single reads only - hell I can > > do an Arrows in an evening, without stretching - a Winds requires a total > > shut out of husband/chores/telly/conversation, but it's do-able - I need > > books, lots of books, shelves and shelves of books. Does anyone out there > > "read" their bookshelves? If I've 10 minutes to kill with a coffe, I just > > take up station in front of my book-wall, and browse - I like to know > > where they all are, remind myself of what's there - some people commune > > with nature, I commune with my books! > > > > whoof, shuttit EE, there's work awaiting, > > > > tot ziens > > Esmeralda Evensbane > > (unaffiliated) > > > > Yes! Yes! At last, vindication! I am not a freak! Or, at least, if I am, > I am not the only one of my kind. I reread every book I own, and I own > lots. (4 sets of floor-to-ceiling bookshelves at last count.) > > A dedicated bibliophile, > > Becky > > ---------- > With my luck, the entrance exam to Heaven will have logarithms on it. > you mean there are households in the world where there aren't hundred of books!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO!!!!!!! howl, screech, tear out hair, gnash teeth!!!! I've re-read every book I've ever read once (except for one book by Peter Hazel, bleech!) I have to recycle the books every once in a while (rule of thumb, if I haven't re-read it in 2 years, pass on to used book store) otherwise, there are too many books (I mean, once we reach the 700 mark, it's time to clean up!) book lovers unite! /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Rozanna n'ha Iris e-mail: rozanm-+AT+-webster.nl Sand-cat Extraordinaire Member of the Cat People /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 09:35:57 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Shaych Monarchs Message-ID: <01APR96.10367442.0022.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Please remember, though Misty may be very gay-positive, and her PCs (sorry, gamer terminology -- Player Characters, or protagonists) may be totally unprejudiced, Valdemar itself is no more openminded than our world. Yes, some people are accepting, but probably not a majority; certainly not so many that a gay marriage in the royal family would pass unnoticed. Otherwise, why would Withen have been so afraid that people would look down on the Ashkevrons if Vanyel turned out gay? Why would Vanyel have been so sure at the beginning of Magic's Promise that people were snubbing him because he was gay? That was 600 years ago, yes, but even in the current books, Keren is nervous about coming out to Talia, and very relieved when Talia takes it in stride. IIRC, she says that even some of the Heralds had a lot of trouble accepting her relationship with Ylsa. So it's not quite a paradise; it's just that the important characters don't share their societal prejudices. Traditionally, gay marriages were not the norm because our concept of marriage was different. The idea of being married to a life partner, someone for whom you feel love and intimacy, with whom you can share all the aspects of your life, really hardly predates the 20th century -- though there are hints of Things To Come in the 19th. A wedding was the alliance of two families to produce children and other economic benefits, or it was to provide your daughters with providers, or to find a woman willing to take care of the children from your last marriage whom you were too busy working in the fields to look after properly. You get the idea. Often, it was considered detrimental to love your spouse very much. A whole lot of rulers had gay lovers, but there would have been no sense in being married, because marriage was not about what they felt for one another. Obviously, Valdemar has a much more 20th c. mindset on the matter. What was interesting for me (as a history/women's studies type), were the Holderkin women. Now that's quite historically accurate. In strictly sex-segregated societies, of course people are going to find their supportive, intimate, loving connections among their own sex. They have nothing in common with the opposite one. Often, society accepts and even encourages these kind of relationships -- but rarely at the expense of marriage. Once you've done your duty and gotten married, then you have the freedom to pursue your own happiness. I don't know where this was going. But I doubt there would be a gay marriage among the Valdemaran royalty, because there would be no real societal benefit (you know how these Valdemaran monarchs are about duty), and quite probably a societal disadvantage. Remember when Vanyel couldn't travel with Stef because they'd get thrown out of Rethwellan, and it would be taken as an insult that Valdemar would send a shaych ambassador? Imagine how a very homophobic society would react to the Queen's wife. They'd lose a lot of respect for Valdemar, and it would probably engender some hostility on all sides. HTH "I guess one person can make a difference -- but most of the time you probably shouldn't." --Marge Simpson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:37:13 -0500 (EST) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elementals; Was: re: stone as kethry/kero/Beauty/huff Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Kerry Mealing wrote: > > > > Vivian Cho wrote: > > I guess I need an ObMisty here: Well, given that Misty has made some > > parts of Velgarth quite accepting of alternative lifestyles, why didn't we > > ever come across a similar situation as the one as in "SingTFQ"? Or HAS > > she presented this idea but I missed it/haven't come across it yet (Snip) > Good point. Maybe it's just a case of odds that either a shaych ruler > never cropped up, or if they did, then there were no other shaych rulers > at the time and they had to make a political marriage. (Horrible, but given Um, remember when Jisa and ?Trevalyen? got married... Well, h did consider all of the women he might make a political marriage with in the next five years and he told Van, "Unless you plan on me turning shaych, there's no one availablee aong the neutrals." (not a direct quote) which is almost what you wanted, isn't it? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ L'Enfant Terrible Wanna Warrior Protocol Officer The WitchQueen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "You haven't found god yet? Why in havens' name not? God is everywhere... Have you tried buying a rubber chicken? Sometimes they have two gods." -Moi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:01:36 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: Tammy Harris , Subject: Re: poll Message-ID: <31600293.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> Sorry all, My server won't let me e-mail lady Tammy directly, so I'm doing it this way! Sorry Mel! > Heyla, all! > > In case some of you were wondering, I haven't forgotten. Things just > got crazy. So, there's still time to respond! > > If you're interested, send me your ages and where you live. I'll > post the results next week (I promise!). > > Wind to thy Wings, > Tammy > Rozanna McNeer age 21 (as of today!!! happy birthday to Anne McCaffrey as well!) Boekenburglaan 2 2215 AD Voorhout The Netherlands First Book, Free Amazons of Darkover, by MZB, at age 8 /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Rozanna n'ha Iris e-mail: rozanm-+AT+-webster.nl Sand-cat Extraordinaire Member of the Cat People /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:06:30 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: "Jake (Rynath *OIB*)" , Subject: Tarma Message-ID: <31600298.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> tarma means intestines in Danish and ass in Algerian! The interesting things you learn at an international school! /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Rozanna n'ha Iris e-mail: rozanm-+AT+-webster.nl Sand-cat Extraordinaire Member of the Cat People /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:03:17 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Booklovers, was Re: Women's Lit Message-ID: Rozanna wrote: > you mean there are households in the world where there aren't hundred > of books!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO!!!!!!! howl, screech, tear out hair, gnash > teeth!!!! > I've re-read every book I've ever read once (except for one book by > Peter Hazel, bleech!) I have to recycle the books every once in a > while (rule of thumb, if I haven't re-read it in 2 years, pass on to > used book store) otherwise, there are too many books (I mean, once > we reach the 700 mark, it's time to clean up!) Hmmmmmmmm.....good idea. What I've ended up doing is sending them to my family's house at the beach, since there has always been a distinct lack of good books there. Started with this weekend's beach trip, and I still have two huge boxes of books to take up! > > book lovers unite! > Bad spellers of the world untie! Huked on foniks wurked 4 me! *****LADY JAGUAR***** Leader of the Cat People Lady in Green LGMCB Conspirator #14, DHTBB Lobe #3! "Meddle not in the affairs of cats for you are soft-skinned, and blind at night." ********************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:54:52 -0500 (EST) From: Queen of the Darned To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: rehashing Talia's gifts Message-ID: > On Fri, 29 Mar 1996, Birgit Hanel wrote: > > [snip] > > Rolan talked to Talia when he chose her and made her forget the fact > > afterwards (for some obscure, Companion-like reasons ). > > So we read that Talia has no direct Mindspeech, but how did Rolan tell her > > about Elspeth's progress in learning magic (WoChange)? IIRC Gwena told Rolan > > who told Talia who told Selenay. How's that supposed to work if Talia > > cannot "talk" to Rolan? Do you remember when Talia sensed that Rolan was worried about Elspeth, she asked him if she should drop into a trance so they could fully communicate? (somewhere in the Arrows of the Queen trilogy) This would probably be how they relay messages back and forth. Rolan would have no trouble picking up her word-thoughts, and once she was in a deep enough trance, she could pick up his full thoughts without a problem. Jenny, throwing in her two bits |----------------------/=<-+AT+->=\------------------------| "Did you ever wonder about the meaning of life, Dogbert?" "I used to... But then I looked it up in the Dictionary under 'L' and there it was -- the Meaning of Life... It was less than I expected." ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 448 *********************************