MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 450 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Stef's duties was re: Companion-names by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 2) Re: #valdemar on IRC by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 3) Re: poll by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 4) Re: 3-fold Goddesses by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com 5) Re: reading speed (fairly off-topic) by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com 6) Gay characters in fantasy by "sean collins" 7) Re: Booklovers, was Re: Women's Lit by Todd Sherman 8) April Fools / Anne Rice; was Re: *sigh* by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 9) Re: Tarma by ptamarin-+AT+-buttenet.com (Pat Tamarin) 10) Copy of: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 447 by "Jake (Rynath *OIB*)" <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 11) Re: reading speed (fairly off-topic) by Rosario Holsen-Baker 12) Re: First Books by Rosario Holsen-Baker 13) Re: Tarma by The Mage of Green Silences 14) Re: #valdemar on IRC by The Mage of Green Silences 15) From the Front by Heather Watson 16) Re: Star-Eyed by Shadow-Lover 17) Shadowspun by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 18) Re: Tarma by mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa And Tina) 19) Re: poll by mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa And Tina) 20) Re: Tarma by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 21) Re: reading speed (fairly off-topic) by Lady 'Reesa And Tina 22) Re: Tarma by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 23) Re: Tarma by Heather Watson 24) Re: Fire Rose (SPOILERS) by "Kristin A. Ruhle" 25) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 447 by "Kristin A. Ruhle" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 19:25:50 -0500 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Stef's duties was re: Companion-names Message-ID: <960401192547_261592222-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> >In fact, Stefen is pretty much proof that they don't. >Furthermore, Tylendel/Stefen came back in a form that >allowed him to serve Valdemar as well as any Companion, if >not better. I have a question. What does Stef do in the forest with Van? I mean Van has the magical abilities and such and Stef is only a bard. What does he do to protect Valdemar's nrthern border? Is he there just to keep Vanyel happy? I'm rather confused and I'm not really trying to make Stef out to be the weakling totally dependent on Vanyel or anything but what does he do? Zhai'helleva! Lady Moonsong An Honorable Lady In Greenish Black An Honorable One In Blackish Green Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com "Among human beings, A cat is merely a cat; Among cats, A cat is a prowling shadow in a jungle." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 19:25:53 -0500 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: #valdemar on IRC Message-ID: <960401192551_261592253-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> >I have never seen it when I was on, so I couldn't say. >However, whenever I am on, I maintain my home channel of >#GreenSilences. All are welcome (even TMIW, if they promise >to behave!) Of course, now that we are hitting the downside >of the semester, I may not be on that often, but...if I am, y'all >c'mon in! Um, this is probably another REALLY REALLY dumb question but what exactly is #valdemar on IRC? I'm kinda sorta confused. HELP ME!!!!! <--look 5! Zhai'helleva! Lady Moonsong An Honorable Lady In Greenish Black An Honorable One In Blackish Green Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com "Among human beings, A cat is merely a cat; Among cats, A cat is a prowling shadow in a jungle." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 11:19:50 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: poll Message-ID: <9604020119.AA06138-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Heather (HATST5) wrote: > I have to ask this. It's totally off any sublect, but my friends keep > telling me Anne McCaffrey is also Anne Rice/Rampling. Now, I don't believe > it. You're right. You're very very right. You're more right than you can possibly imagine. Even on her worst days Anne McCaffrey doesn't come -near- the posturing verbosity that characterize Anne Rice's books. In case you can't tell, I'm not a big fan of A. Rice - I skimmed her first Vampire book at a friends place one evening and was less than impressed. It -dragged- even at a skim-reading pace and for some reason left me feeling slightly soiled. (And no, before you ask, it wasn't the 'homoerotic' elements [hah! -What- homoerotic elements?], it was just something about the book generally). Admittedly I can't comment about the movie as I haven't seen it, but I get the impression it's heaps better than the books (if only from the fact that people seemed to like it *grin*). Okay, that's my spiel. :) Apologies to those who like Ms Rice's writing, it's just my opinion. Cheers, Kerry. "And we'll go no more a roving by the light of the Moon." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:34:32 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: 3-fold Goddesses Message-ID: <199604020134.SAA28347-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla all! >> ObMisty: MZB has written things like Mists of Avalon, and the Ruins >> of Isis -> do you think misty would ever write something like this >> (e.g. re-telling the oddessey (sp)) What would you like to see her >> do? I want the Wild Hunt!!! Just a footnote - Misty did do a scene w/the Wild Hunt in Chrome Circle. It was pretty short, though. Zhai'helleva & Cheysuli i'halla shansu all, *************************************************** .---. .-. Jesse von Kirchner, Apprentice to His Lordship __.|\__/|.__ | | Chosa Dei, High Wizard of Ysaa-Den and / o o\ _ | | | | rightful ruler of both north and south. /( ) \ . | | | `-' | *************************************************** / \#/ \ _// | `-' .---' | |/ ( `---. `--. | | | |_/ | .--` (~\ | | / ~) | | __\_|| ||_ /__ | | _/ //_//_| |_\\__\\\___|_| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:37:45 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: reading speed (fairly off-topic) Message-ID: <199604020137.SAA00667-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla all! >Hmm, I'm not certain if it was third or fourth grade when a friend >and I had a contest to see who was getting through Lord of the Rings >first. Needless to say, when our 6th grade teacher decided that The >Hobbit was necessary reading we were less than impressed by her >analysis. The seventh grade teacher who taught us the basics of the >runes Tolkien used and had "Hobbit Day" on the Eve of Saint Beltaine >was much more on target :) Hey, no fair! Am I the only one without cool teachers? I'm lucky if mine have even *heard* of Tolkien. And if one of them tried to have a hobbit day, they'd probably be driven out of town as a devil-worshipper. Oh well. Zhai'helleva and Cheysuli i'halla shansu all, *************************************************** .---. .-. Jesse von Kirchner, Apprentice to His Lordship __.|\__/|.__ | | Chosa Dei, High Wizard of Ysaa-Den and / o o\ _ | | | | rightful ruler of both north and south. /( ) \ . | | | `-' | *************************************************** / \#/ \ _// | `-' .---' | |/ ( `---. `--. | | | |_/ | .--` (~\ | | / ~) | | __\_|| ||_ /__ | | _/ //_//_| |_\\__\\\___|_| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 96 16:54:14 PST From: "sean collins" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Gay characters in fantasy Message-ID: <9604020141.AA28976-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> REPLY TO 04/01/96 16:46 FROM mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk: Re: Tarma I am delurking and off subject but to the person who was looking for gay characters in a good light, you might try the Door into fire by Diane Duane. It is part of a four book series (and the last one isn't out yet) in which the norm is bisexuality. I know I've read more (it seems to be becoming more popular lately) but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Sean To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:57:37 -0800 From: Todd Sherman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Booklovers, was Re: Women's Lit Message-ID: <199604020157.RAA27851-+AT+-phoenix> >I've re-read every book I've ever read once (except for one book by >Peter Hazel, bleech!) I have to recycle the books every once in a >while (rule of thumb, if I haven't re-read it in 2 years, pass on to >used book store) otherwise, there are too many books (I mean, once >we reach the 700 mark, it's time to clean up!) *Gasp* How could you? You sell your friends? Just because they haven't visited in a few years? *sob* You big Meanie!!!!! Monolith Man of stone ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 11:59:41 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: April Fools / Anne Rice; was Re: *sigh* Message-ID: <9604020159.AA06743-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Heather (HATST) wrote: > I should have known. > I just realized today was April Fool's Day. Think I just embarrassed myself ranting on about Anne Rice. :) Never mind, at least I do have an excuse - it's well into April 2nd here in Australia.. I was just thinking that I'd gotten away without getting caught by any April 1st type pranks. Counting chickens. :) Cheers, Kerry. "We're exuming .. your potato.." -- Mulder. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 19:12:07 -0600 From: ptamarin-+AT+-buttenet.com (Pat Tamarin) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tarma Message-ID: >>tarma means intestines in Danish and ass in Algerian! The interesting >>things you learn at an international school! I guess that means Tarma has a lot of guts and a good backing? Or was that "ass" as in the hee-haw variety? ______________ "There are three rules for writing a novel. Unfortunately, no one know what they are." -- W.S. Maugham ------------------------------ Date: 01 Apr 96 21:53:56 EST From: "Jake (Rynath *OIB*)" <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Copy of: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 447 Message-ID: <960402025356_102744.2515_GHT106-4-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Korendil wrote: .>If you remember, when her clan was attacked, she .>screamed so much that something was permanently damaged in her larnyx, .>so that the Tarma who had been treasured by her people for her lovely .>voice afterwards often got a cynical plasure from startling people with .>her harsh crow-call voice. .. .. .Um, actually wasn't it being half strangled by the bandit who raped her? Yep. It's in the beginning of "Swordsworn"... the bandit who raped her basically crushed her voicebox. That's why she has a Leslie Fish voice instead of a Heather Alexander voice... I'halla shansu, Rynath / Jake House Champion of the Ladies in Green The Hopeless Bibliomaniac 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com Witches: Do you practice safe hex? (Kor... I know you got this twice. I messed up on the address the first time... *^#$% Compuserve..) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:01:45 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: reading speed (fairly off-topic) Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, The Mage of Green Silences wrote: > > > > You think that's bad? I scared myself during the Tolkien > > > discussion by realizing that I read LotR when I was in third or fourth > > > grade, AND UNDERSTOOD IT. Then I did some further calculations, and > > > figured out that when I was about 11 or 12 (I think) I read the entire > > Oh, you'll have to do better than that! I was reading the LotR under the > covers of my bed by flashlight when I was in 3rd grade (~9yo). My mom > had tried reading them to my sister and I as a bed-time story and had to > I probably could, if I remembered any of it. Elementary school was *not* the best time of my life, and I think I may have ended up foggin most of it. All I remember is picking up _The Two Towers_ in third grade (finally pinpointed it!), getting funny glances from teachers who thought it was over my head (ha!), and getting an odd sort of love-hate crush on Aragorn. And getting severly traumatized by Aslan *and* the White Witch around the age of 8. To this day, I can devour and Anne Rice upper-hundred-page tiny-tiny print novel in about an hour and a half to two hours, which drives my mother crazy. The sad part about this whole story is that I'm sure my brother could be reading, if not on the same level that I did when I was his age, at least damn close to it! (what a sentence!). Yet he DOESN'T. Absolutely infuriating. *****LADY JAGUAR***** Leader of the Cat People Lady in Green LGMCB Conspirator #14, DHTBB Lobe #3! "Meddle not in the affairs of cats for you are soft-skinned, and blind at night." ********************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:09:42 -0500 (EST) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: First Books Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, The Mage of Green Silences wrote: > I know that there is at least one version of Tam Lin out that is a novel > in the series. I believe that it was written by Pam Dean, but I am prob > mistaken. I don't have it. > Yep! I have it, have read it many times over, and it is in my lap as I write. The other books are Snow White and Rose Red, by Patricia Wrede The Sun, The Moon, and The Stars by Steven Brust Jack the Giant-Killer by Charles de Lint The Nightingale by Kara Dalkey According to the foreword, which is about six years old, there are two more: Katie Crackcernuts and Briar-Rose, but I don't have the authors. I know I've seen Briar-Rose around, though. *****LADY JAGUAR***** Leader of the Cat People Lady in Green LGMCB Conspirator #14, DHTBB Lobe #3! "Meddle not in the affairs of cats for you are soft-skinned, and blind at night." ********************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:12:34 -0500 (EST) From: The Mage of Green Silences To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tarma Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Heather Watson wrote: > Um, okay, I've got an ObMisty (a real one, thank you very much): In > SRising, during one of Firesong's selfpity fests, he's thinking about > how hard it is to meet someone, and he claims that there are never more > than 1 in 10 or so who are shay'a'chern to begin with. > 10% is the approximate proportion of people in OUR society who admit > to being gay or bisexual. This leaves out all the people who aren't > sure, who have spent their whole lives trying to deny it, who have had > one or two long-term same-sex affairs, but tend to prefer partners of > the opposite sex, and people who would just never think in a million > years that they might try that kind of thing -- but might like it if > they did. I can't believe that there wouldn't be any more people > willing to dally with their own gender in a totally unprejudiced society > than there are right now in our own happy world. Um, I hate to say this, Heather, sweetie, but this is just plain wrong. 10% is the percentage that Kinnsey theorized would, in an ideal random population, be homosexual (meaning a 6 on the Kinnsey scale). Recently, a major nationwide poll was conducted by a research instute in Chicago (For the life of me, I can't remember the name of the center or the poll) which produced the widely quoted statistic that only 2% of the American population was "gay." What did not get widely published, although it was reported in the more reputable papers/mags/journals and in the gay press was that the 2% refers to those who are openly gay and will self-identify as such on a survey. The same study found that somewhere around 12-15% of the population was "behaviorally" homosexual, that is their behavior as they self-reported met the clinical definition of "homosexual." Either way, the 10% Rule has nothing to do with being "openly" gay or "admitting" it. It does include the people who are in the closet, even to themselves, the ones who have never tried it, but would like it, and the people who aren't sure. What it definitely does NOT include are bisexuals and str8s who have had one or two gay encounters but continue to form their primary affective psychosocial relationships with the opposite sex. Obviously, Misty is basing her population statistics in Velgarth on those which exist in our world. > Believe me, very few people are TOTALLY gay or TOTALLY straight; a > lot of people experiment with homosexuality and like it, but then get > very nervous and decide they can't handle the guilt, or they can't > handle public reaction, so they stop. Among the Tayledras, all of those > people would also be prospects for Firesong, because there would be no > reason for them to quit. If everyone were free to do whatever they > wanted, I think more people would be bisexual. I think that you want to say that if everyone were free to do whatever they wanted without fear of societal reprisals, more bisexuals would be willing to act on their impulses. Kinnsey's theory was that most of any population will exist on a continuum of sexuality from exclusively hetero to exclusively homo. A large portion of the population falls in between these two poles. My own personal theory is that the distribution is somewhat skewed towards the hetero end. I have a feeling the largest group is located at about 1 on the Kinnsey Scale (Primarily Hetero - Incidentally Homo). I hate to say this, but there is not much evidence that bisexuality is the population mean in terms of sexuality. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd (who among other things does a lot of education work on sexuality issues at his university), Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:19:02 -0500 (EST) From: The Mage of Green Silences To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: #valdemar on IRC Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 1996 Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Um, this is probably another REALLY REALLY dumb question but what exactly is > #valdemar on IRC? I'm kinda sorta confused. #valdemar is a chat channel on IRC. IRC, for the uninitiates is Internet Relay Chats, a really cool way of wasting time and otherwise getting into trouble. If you have the software set up, you can log on to whole virtual world of little channels where people hang out and chat online with people all over the world. There are usually around 4,000 different channels available to choose from and you always have the option of starting a new one on a new topic. If you are interested in getting into this, feel free to email privately and I will do what I can to help you get started. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 21:48:50 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: From the Front Message-ID: <01APR96.23559136.0090.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> 1) Nonononono. There is no truth whatsoever to that dumbass rumor about Annes McCaffrey and Rice. If you need proof, there's a biography out about Anne Rice that might help. Frankly, all the proof I think you'd need is that they don't write anything alike. (If I were being snide, i'd say that all the proof you need is that Anne McCaffrey CAN WRITE. But that would be unnecessary.) 2) I could never read another Tristan and Iseult novel. The White Raven was just *it* for me -- I loved it. It's by Diana Paxson, and no one else could stand up next to it. It's phenomenal. 3) Um, I'm in a rush, so I'm not coming up with as many gay-positive books as I'd be able to given time. The few that occur to me: Swordspoint (Ellen Kushner) HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU PEOPLE?? JUST READ IT!! Gossamer Axe (Gael Baudino) Normally I don't like Baudino, but this book was good. Trouble and Her Friends (Melissa Scott) It's cyberpunk, not fantasy, but if you like scifi, it's worth the effort. Ecstasia (Francesca Lia Block) and the sequel, Primavera. Very weird, but super good, IMO. Not your father's Oldsmobile, but I bonded with Rafe and Paul almost as much as I did with Alec and Richard (SWORDSPOINT) I can think of lots more, but the gay characters are more minor, or the issue just doesn't come up as much. There's a cool gay character in Tigana who dies very early on, and the main character in The Lions of Al-Rassan is openly bi, but it doesn't come up much. There's a minor character in Beloved Exile who's the Roman governor in England, and he's involved in a very touching romance with one of his knights. In Lady of the Forest, they actually deal with the fact that Richard the Lionhearted was gay. Wow, hmm, I know there would be more if I could just think. I'll have to go ponder. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 23:16:28 -0500 From: Shadow-Lover To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Star-Eyed Message-ID: <1.5.4b12.32.19960402041628.00676a24-+AT+-ix.netcom.com> At 02:07 AM 4/1/96 +0100, you wrote: IMNSHO I always viewed "Star-eyed" as an expression, not as real stars... I've always imagined very deep, penetrating, midnight-blue eyes with scattered sparkles strewn throughout that appear to be twinkling stars lending the eyes a sense of infinite depth and wisdom... - Shadow-Lover *************************-E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com-************************ * - There are no happy endings because nothing ever ends... * * -The Last Unicorn * * * * - It is respectable to have no illusions - and safe - and profitable - * * and dull... * * -Joseph Conrad * * * * - How long 'till my soul gets it right... How can any human ever reach * * that kind of light... Call on the resting soul of Galileo, king of * * night-vision king of insight... * * -Indigo Girls * ********************************-IRC: Hairenn-******************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 23:24:15 -0500 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Shadowspun Message-ID: <960401232414_503507015-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> >PS: anybody with the usename Shadowspun out there. I'm >thinking of it for myself. "Heather" is just too boring. I LIKE that name! Totally cool dude! (O.K. I think I'm done with my WAY out-of-date slang ) As far as I know I think that you are safe in using that name! Zhai'helleva! Lady Moonsong An Honorable Lady In Greenish Black An Honorable One In Blackish Green Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com "Among human beings, A cat is merely a cat; Among cats, A cat is a prowling shadow in a jungle." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 21:26:37 -0700 (MST) From: mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa And Tina) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tarma Message-ID: <199604020426.VAA04909-+AT+-usr1.primenet.com> > >Give me some titles, please! I need to counteract DS's bad influence! I >couldn't believe my roomie loved it so much, but I had reccomended books to >her, so it was only fair that I gave it a shot. > >Heather > > Try "Sing the Four Quarters", "Fifth Quarter" and "No Quarter" by Tanya Huff. All of them have really COOL characters, and they all portray homosexuality in a very positive light. Also, "Swordspoint", "Drawing Blood" (This one is horror, but it's still good), "The Fire's Stone" (I never quit plugging that one!) and anything by Lois McMaster Bujold (She has some hermaphrodite's in her books. I Loooove Bel Thorne!) Also, just wondering if anyone has read anything by a New Zealand author, Sheryl Jordan. I've only read "Juniper's Game", but I want to know if she has anything else out, and if so what the titles are. "JG" was a YA, and I read it in about two hours, but it was sooooo good. She does really great characters! ~~~~~~~~~~Lady 'Reesa~~~~~~~~~~mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com~~~~~~~~~~~) "In a way, Sam had been like the clothes he'd worn; all ) one color on the surface, pure evil at first glance...but ) that shadow was supported and held together by a ) thousand other patches that made him what he was...a ) thousand shades of grey and a cluster of patches of ) rainbow, covered unfairly by the blanket definition of evil" ) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 21:32:49 -0700 (MST) From: mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa And Tina) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: poll Message-ID: <199604020432.VAA02882-+AT+-usr2.primenet.com> At 02:10 AM 4/2/96 +0100, HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu wrote: > I have to ask this. It's totally off any sublect, but my friends keep >telling me Anne McCaffrey is also Anne Rice/Rampling. Now, I don't believe it. >Anne McCaffrey supposedly lives in Ireland and raises horse. Anne Rice >apparently lives in New Orleans doing God-knows-what. Help! I really want to >prove them wrong. Petty, but hey! they've been ganging up on me about it! > >Heather :) > > Anne Rice is NOT (NOT NOT NOT!) Anne McCaffrey! She also writes as Anne Rampling and some other name under which she published an erotic Sleeping Beauty series, but the two have nothing to do with each other! Anne Rice scares me! I saw her do an interveiw for 20/20, and she looked like she was a walking corpse! Well, the same could be said of me when I get up, so never mind... Now, go prove your friends wrong! ~~~~~~~~~~Lady 'Reesa~~~~~~~~~~mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com~~~~~~~~~~~) "In a way, Sam had been like the clothes he'd worn; all ) one color on the surface, pure evil at first glance...but ) that shadow was supported and held together by a ) thousand other patches that made him what he was...a ) thousand shades of grey and a cluster of patches of ) rainbow, covered unfairly by the blanket definition of evil" ) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 14:47:34 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tarma Message-ID: <9604020447.AA09732-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Cennyd wrote: > Heather Watson wrote: > > Believe me, very few people are TOTALLY gay or TOTALLY straight; a > > lot of people experiment with homosexuality and like it, but then get > > very nervous and decide they can't handle the guilt, or they can't > > handle public reaction, so they stop. Among the Tayledras, all of those > > people would also be prospects for Firesong, because there would be no > > reason for them to quit. If everyone were free to do whatever they > > wanted, I think more people would be bisexual. > > I think that you want to say that if everyone were free to do whatever > they wanted without fear of societal reprisals, more bisexuals would be > willing to act on their impulses. Kinnsey's theory was that most of any > population will exist on a continuum of sexuality from exclusively hetero > to exclusively homo. A large portion of the population falls in between > these two poles. My own personal theory is that the distribution is > somewhat skewed towards the hetero end. I have a feeling the largest > group is located at about 1 on the Kinnsey Scale (Primarily Hetero - > Incidentally Homo). I hate to say this, but there is not much evidence > that bisexuality is the population mean in terms of sexuality. Question then, even if you postulate even a very skewed normal distribution with a 12% behaviourally homosexual portion, that would still only imply roughly a 30/40% behaviourally heterosexual portion, leaving, as you said, quite a large proportion in between. I guess it depends though on what you mean by bisexuality. ( It's the maths side of me coming out and yelling "I wanna see a graph!"). Point being, I think you & Heather were more or less saying the same thing. Another question - I get the impression that Heather thinks that the incidence of bisexuality in a population is quite a bit higher than you - I don't know the figures, hence the question - but is it possible that this is a gender difference? Just some off-the-cuff thoughts, Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 21:42:33 -0700 (MST) From: Lady 'Reesa And Tina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: reading speed (fairly off-topic) Message-ID: <199604020442.VAA08209-+AT+-usr1.primenet.com> > >*************************************************** >Jesse von Kirchner, Apprentice to His Lordship >Chosa Dei, High Wizard of Ysaa-Den and >rightful ruler of both north and south. >| | `-' | >*************************************************** Is this the Jesse Kirchner who wanted info on my Robert Jordan fan club? Did you ever get the sample issue, and if so, did you like it? Oh yeah! I just realized that you subscribed! Uh, duh...sorry, it's late! (Well, okay, it's not, but darkness has decended upon my mind...) ~~~~~~~~~~Lady 'Reesa~~~~~~~~~~mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com~~~~~~~~~~~) "In a way, Sam had been like the clothes he'd worn; all ) one color on the surface, pure evil at first glance...but ) that shadow was supported and held together by a ) thousand other patches that made him what he was...a ) thousand shades of grey and a cluster of patches of ) rainbow, covered unfairly by the blanket definition of evil" ) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 15:13:20 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tarma Message-ID: <9604020513.AA10148-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Cennyd wrote: > Ooo! Even better...Emmanuelle Beart as Kethry! She is the actress who > played Manon in "Manon of the Spring." She also played the angel in > "Date with an Angel" and is my vote for the most beautiful human being in > existence. Hmmmm. On second thought, maybe she would be a bad choice. > Kethry was pretty, but not the most beautiful human in creation. Still, > Emmanuelle looks very much like I always pictured Kethry (or vice > versa). And there needs to be a role for her somewhere. Oh yes.. OH YES! She was so very very good in the "Date with an Angel" movie - so sweet & innocent most of the time and then so awe-invoking in her rage. I still remember the terrible majesty of the avenging angel, head thrown back, scream/singing her rage to the heavens, calling down the lightning and rain on the ones who hurt the one she was protecting. Oh yes, I can picture her as Kethry.. (remember how her husband and brother reacted when she was breaking out of the cell?). > Cennydd (having very confused thoughts about why he thinks a woman is the > most beautiful human in creation), *grin* Abstract appreciation? I could never pick anyone as the most beautiful human.. beauty comes in too many forms (the ethereal, the breath-taking, the comfortable etc..). That said, I have to admit Ms Beart certainly looked better than the Miss America types. :) Cheers, Kerry. Dreams are answers to questions we haven't yet figured out how to ask. -- Mulder. The Razor's Edge. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 23:24:43 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Tarma Message-ID: <01APR96.25285153.0156.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> I'm sorry, I wasn't expressing myself at all well earlier. You were right to take me to task for my quick and sloppy interpretation of the statistics. Of course, it's more complex than just plain 1-in-10, and I would have been wise to acknowledge that upfront rather than waiting to be corrected. But my point is, those statistics are so based on what people a) realize about themselves and b) want to admit to a poll. People lie on anonymous polls, you know. I've done it. Lots of people have. It makes us feel good about ourselves, and if you believe you're having horrible thoughts, the last thing you want to do is admit to them on paper. You know this, I'm sure, but coming out is a tremendously long and painful process for some people. I was eighteen before I could admit *to myself* that I felt the way I did, and even that I had done some of the things I had done. Other people don't face up to that until they're 28, or 48, or they never do. The surveys will never accurately reflect what people aren't willing to be honest about yet internally. That's why I feel that the statistics we have about homosexual behavior do not reflect the kind of behavior that would exist in a society where it was no bigger deal to "accept" or "admit" to being homosexual than it is for us to accept and admit to being left-handed. And, as you pointed out, the Earth surveys don't represent people like An'desha, or my she'enedra, who are essentially straight, but may have sexual, even serious relationships with someone of the same sex. If An'desha lived in Missouri, he would probably have felt the need to ignore any stirrings he might have felt for other men. We have a societal idea that you're either one thing or another, and it's not easy to accept that you may be one thing, and sometimes feel like or act like another. Think of all those magazines where people write in and say "I'm fantasizing about my best friend/teacher/whatever. Am I gay?" Well, they may or may not be, but it's hard for them to even conceptualize the idea that they could be straight and still have homosexual feelings. Some people handle that thought more easily than others. But if they were Tayledras (or Shin'a'in, like An'desha), they'd just shrug and say, "What do you know? I'm attracted to him/her." Like An'desha did. And that adds a whole new layer of people who wouldn't show up on a survey, but might date Firesong. Now you may begin to see why I think the demographics would change if the societal attitudes are different. I agree, in an ideally free world, most people would probably be Kinsey's 1, het with a seasoning of homo. But my point is just that lots of those Kinsey 1's might get involved in gay relationships in a Tayledras vale where they would not in our world, because of the lack of social pressures. And as to bisexuality as a "norm," it's hard to say what's the norm, because no one exists in a vacuum outside of socializing influences. There have been societies in our world where homosexual conduct was encouraged and rewarded, and in those societies, many more people were bisexual. But that's a social influence, too. I'm not aware of any society outside of the Tayledras where the prevailing attitude really was "Do whatever makes you happy, and we'll all validate you and be supportive." Most real-world societies expect certain behaviors regarding sex and family life -- it's just that those expectations vary wildly from culture to culture. Ah, well. That's why it's a fantasy, I suppose. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 23:17:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristin A. Ruhle" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fire Rose (SPOILERS) Message-ID: <199604020717.AA28263-+AT+-> > > > STrange...am I the only one who read Fire Rose in its entirety and only > afterwords even THOUGHT of it being a retelling of B&B? In fact, after > finishing I thought up the idea, and discarded it since it was so different... > I didn't catch onto the B&B angle until I read the Baen interview! I loved the period setting, the locale (I live in the San Francisco Bay area myself) and the magickal lore (elemental natures and such). I identified strongly with the heroine...Howzis for a discussion thread: How similar are magical systems Misty sets on Earth to those in Velgarth? Kethry talks about magic early in Oathbound and mentions Other Planar creatures for each element and for the 'Empyreal Plane' (fifth Elemental?) So is a Unicorn what Kethry would call Empyreal? Kristin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 23:23:13 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristin A. Ruhle" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 447 Message-ID: <199604020723.AA28484-+AT+-> > > > > On the subject of who to be Tarma, I would vote for Angelica Huston > over Cher--I suppose they could digitally alter or whatever the right > term is, her voice. If you remember, when her clan was attacked, she > screamed so much that something was permanently damaged in her larnyx, > so that the Tarma who had been treasured by her people for her lovely > voice afterwards often got a cynical plasure from startling people with > her harsh crow-call voice. > Well it's never *stated* exactly, but I always assumed the damage to Tarma's voice was because the bandits tried to slit her throat, but missed the veins and hit her larynx/vocal cords instead...remember, most of the rest of her Clan were killed that way, so why wouldn't they have slit Tarma's throat? I don't think you could damage your voice just from screaming too loud! That sounds like some kind of weird-science urban legend. Kristin ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 450 *********************************