MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 458 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) ADMIN: absence by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 2) re: easter by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 3) Re: Out of the Woods, totally off topic but... by "deanca" 4) Re: Out of the Woods, definitely off-topic by Heather Watson 5) Re: reading speed, bibliomania by Saranhct-+AT+-aol.com 6) test message by Chelsea Amberle Fischer 7) Bad Heralds, was: cried over characters by Sandra K Haas 8) Re: Why Kris will be king... by Birgit Hanel 9) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 447 by Sandra K Haas 10) Re: Stef's duties was re: Companion-names by Sandra K Haas 11) Re: First books by Heather Watson 12) Re: book lovers by Soljan-+AT+-aol.com 13) Re: Lyrics by aaron douglas bilodeau 14) Re: Rolan, casting & shaych (no, they aren't connected) by aaron douglas bilodeau 15) Re: Songs by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com 16) Re: reading speed (fairly off-topic) by aaron douglas bilodeau 17) Jennifer Roberson's e-mail addy by mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa And Tina) 18) Re: Elementals by Chelsea Amberle Fischer 19) Re: First Books by "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" 20) New Misty Humor by "Jake (Rynath *OIB*)" <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> 21) Re: Fire Rose (SPOILERS) by "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" 22) Re: Tarma by "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" 23) Re: Lewis and Tolkien by Todd Sherman 24) Re: warnings by Todd Sherman 25) Re: McCaffery/Rice/Rampling by Heather Watson 26) Re: Shaych, was Tarma by Heather Watson 27) three-fold goddesses by "Saajak" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:08:00 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey Subject: ADMIN: absence Message-ID: <9604041308.AA06888-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Friday and Monday are public holidays in the UK (because of Easter), so I won't be in the office. The only visible effect of this will be that I shan't process any requests that require manual intervention ("my address has changed, so I can't post/unsubscribe") until Tuesday. Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:11:14 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: The Mage of Green Silences , Subject: re: easter Message-ID: <3163f711.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> Is anyone still out there???? I guess it doesn't matter, since I'll be leaving too. You won't be hearing from me until next tuesday (well, in 4 more hours that is) either. Ho-hum. Nothing to escpae to during work hours tonight. sigh obMisty: Writers must have a lot of self-discipline. I know if I was at home all day I would have a hard time making myself write, even if I told myself that my working hours are from 10-5 each day, and I had to do it. Sometimes I think I am the Queen of Procrastination. /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Rozanna n'ha Iris e-mail: rozanm-+AT+-webster.nl Renunciate of Darkover Member of the Cat People/Huntress "feel the wildness hiding in the back of the shadows, lips pulled in an uncurbed, savage grin." Charles de Lint ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:17:16 +0000 From: "deanca" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Out of the Woods, totally off topic but... Message-ID: <199604041614.LAA08292-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> > I just wanted to say real quick like that i love your little motto and i > definetly recognize it from Out of the Woods, totally awesome!!!!!!! It's "Into the Woods" , but thank you! Chldren will listen is wonderful! So is Agony. "when the one that you love, is out of your reach!" -Free Bard Oriole known on IRC as Vrondi a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 11:35:41 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Out of the Woods, definitely off-topic Message-ID: <04APR96.12522480.0107.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> I'm pretty sure, Susana, that you recognize Oriole's sig from INTO the Woods, the Stephen Sondheim musical. I know this because I've been in the bloody thing twice; there's not a line of it I haven't heard WAAAYY more times than I wanted to But, yes, it is a good musical, probably my favorite Sondheim. "Children Will Listen" is good, but I always get chills when Bernadette Peters sings "The Last Midnight." My she'enedra says Bernadette Peters is the most attractive woman in the world. I'm not sure I would go that far, but she's got a gorgeous voice, that's for sure. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:10:00 -0500 From: Saranhct-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: reading speed, bibliomania Message-ID: <960404140958_184701336-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> I've been reading fantasy, sci-fi, mythology and anything else I can get my hands on since I was 6. Scared myself silly with LotR when the hobbits were being chased by the Black Riders. I lived on a farm down the road from a horse farm. They liked to ride their horses at night and I would hear the hoofbeats and be positive that the Black Riders were coming. Silly I know but what can I say? I have 5 bookcases doublestacked with books, plus books stacked on my headboard, in my nightstands and on tables. I must be a bibiliomaniac from the word go. Saranhct-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:32:57 -0600 (CST) From: Chelsea Amberle Fischer To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list Subject: test message Message-ID: The only messages I've gotten from this list since yesterday evening have been from Lady Susanna.... I was wondering if this was *supposed* to happen?? Has there been some kind of problem with the list, or just with me?? ---Chelsea ******************************************* Ream ember us poke in cent tense all mows stall ways con deigns word snot in ten did. ******************************************* http://www.unt.edu/~caf0001 caf0001-+AT+-jove.acs.unt.edu Chelsea Fischer ******************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:35:52 -0500 (EST) From: Sandra K Haas To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Bad Heralds, was: cried over characters Message-ID: I would love to see that happen. We all know that Companions will die (or pine themselves away) if their *Herald* dies. But if the *trainee* does something so horrible that they are repudiated, would the Companion just need to recover from a kind of shock? Our would it take them out? On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Rosario Holsen-Baker wrote: > Not if both were Heralds. I get the feeling that with Heralds, > almost anything can and will happen. I'm just waiting for a Herald > candidate to actually turn bad and get *really* repudiated! > > *****LADY JAGUAR***** Also two cents about unbonded Choosings. Did Misty ever actually use that term?? I am thinking that unbonded and Choosing are mutually exclusive. The Choosing just seems so...spiritual, emotional...(what is the right word??)...that it really could not be a Choosing without that bond. I think unbonded would only relate to what Florian (?) has with Karel (?)-more of a friendship (which is a bond in and of itself). But I *really* think that there can be no such thing as an *unbonded* choosing. So there, flame away!! :} Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:42:42 +0200 (METDST) From: Birgit Hanel To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Why Kris will be king... Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Lady 'Reesa And Tina wrote: > > against her." (One of these days I'm going to build a Misty > shelf next to my 'puter, since I'm constantly looking up > referances...) > > ~~~~~~~~~~Lady 'Reesa~~~~~~~~~~mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com~~~~~~~~~~~) Doesn't this call for a concordance? Now that I think about it, there was one in the Firebirs catalogue, wasn't it? Any comments on that one? Has somebody read it already? Bis denne Khenta B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:43:18 -0500 (EST) From: Sandra K Haas To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 447 Message-ID: Just my preference, but I won't buy *any* Native American *anything*, unless it is directly from them. Granted it isn't easy, but they do hold a big pow wow here every spring where they sell their wares, but there is just something about buying a dream catcher at a Hallmark shop that goes against my grain. I think it makes anything handmade more special if you buy it directly from the craftsman or craftswoman. Just another .02 Sandy On Wed, 3 Apr 1996 HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu wrote: > This may be a little (ok, a lot!) off-topic, but my friends and I went to the > mall on Saturday and we saw a booth where they were selling silver and > turquoise jewelry. My friend asked the lady if she knew how much of a profit > the Native Americans who made it were getting. She said she couldn't buy it > unless they were getting at leasst thirty percent. The lady got all huffy and > the man said they didn't know. You could tell they were getting ticked at my > friend for asking. Granted, this was in a pretty hickish town, but you'd think > they wouldn't get out of sorts just because she asked a question they couldn't > answer. Do you think they did it because they felt guilty for not knowing or > ticked because she asked a question they never would have thought or cared > about? > > *sigh* > Heather > (I'm not writing the warning again, so, if Shadowspun is taken, speak > now or forever hold your peace!) > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:47:14 -0500 (EST) From: Sandra K Haas To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Stef's duties was re: Companion-names Message-ID: Boy, I'm chatty today. That is what being without email for two days will do to you. I personally (of course) think that Stephen is responsible for the "creative" way people are taken care of up in Sorrows. Wasn't there one that was buried up to his neck in solid ground? that sort of stuff. Van does the dirty work, Stef makes it creative dirty work!! :} Sandy the chatty > Lady Moonsong wrote: > > .>In fact, Stefen is pretty much proof that they don't. > .>Furthermore, Tylendel/Stefen came back in a form that >allowed him to serve > .Valdemar as well as any Companion, if >not better. > . > .I have a question. What does Stef do in the forest with Van? I mean Van has > .the magical abilities and such and Stef is only a bard. What does he do to > .protect Valdemar's nrthern border? Is he there just to keep Vanyel happy? I'm > .rather confused and I'm not really trying to make Stef out to be the weakling > .totally dependent on Vanyel or anything but what does he do? > Rynath wrote: > Stef probably does all sorts of things in the forest with Van.. > > Seriously, if Stef/'Lendel is now a supernatural entity, doesn't that mean that > he would have some power greater than a mortal? I mean, I know it doesn't *say* > anything in it, but I figure that if he's going to be in Sorrows, he's going to > be able to do something. And he was a bard, so he could use his Bardic > (presumably)... > > Of course, Stef could just rear up and yell "BOOooo!" at anyone he wants to keep > out... I think a ghost, no matter what his power, would be able to do that. :) > > Rynath / Jake: House Champion of the Ladies in Green > The Hopeless Bibliomaniac > 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 14:02:55 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: First books Message-ID: <04APR96.15172607.0028.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Um, the person who went on and on about Tam Lin was me, and I thank you for your concern, but I don't *want* to read it again. I thought the portrayal was horrible, and the plot sucked eggs. I also dislike Pamela Dean's writing at the best of times. You like it; that's fine. Lots of people did. But that doesn't mean I just didn't read it carefully enough. It means I didn't like it. I understand the concept of retellings; that's not the problem either. The problem is, I found the characters unsympathetic, the writing pretentious, and the plot slow and dry and humorless. Glad you enjoyed it, though. This "literary-type college student" did not. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:31:21 -0500 From: Soljan-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: book lovers Message-ID: <960404153121_264114272-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-04-02 18:56:58 EST, you write: > *****I am a fast reader, but not as fast as >some of you. I can read probaly all the Arrow's in about, oh, between 3-5 >hours. I read one of the Winds in one day. I think it took me 4 hours. I >don't remember.***** > > >Finally, someone I can relate to. I'm not as fast as the others, but was too >chicken to say anything. I still read fast enough to disgust my mother >completely. When I bought By the Sword (a story in and of itself!) I read it >in one sitting, about 3-4 hours. Same with all of the others. Mom hates it. > >She reads like a turtle. > >Thank you, Silvermoon. > >Heather > > Why, your welcome. I didn't expec to get any replies. I don't read all books in one day either. Over the summer I usually do, but now that school's in session it hardly ever happens. I've been working on Robert Jordan's Eye of the World for about 2 months now. I'll read a chapter, then put it down. Otherwise I'd forget what happened. My memory fails me when I read to fast. One of my nice talents is being able to read with the radio/t.v./stereo/conversation going on in the background. 'nuff said. Lady Silvermoon ;-) "May the moon light your path and guide you to your destiny." "A true wise man never plays leapfrog with a unicorn." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:34:05 -0500 (EST) From: aaron douglas bilodeau To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lyrics Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Heather Watson wrote: > Now here's a question on the topic of lyrics changed from printed to > recorded versions of a Misty song: What's up with the end of "Threes"? > In the back of the book, the last little bit refers to "your sister > at your side," which makes sense, as the thing is about Tarma and > Kethry, who are essentially sisters. Okay, cool, fine. But in the > recording from Heralds, Harpers, & Havoc, they change it to "your > shieldmate at your side." > Pardon? > [expounding snipped] Well, remember that the lyrics written in Oathbreakers were the original lyrics written by Leslac. The lyrics in the back of AFall are (mostly) the same as the recorded version in HH&H. There was also a verse or two added and some more lines changed. Remember that nearly sixty years had passed and the song had probably been translated into Valdemaren (Valdemaran? Whatever...). Naturally, there would be some changes from the original. Note that Leslac didn't know what the 'thorough vengeance' they took was. Obviously, someone found out later and changed the song. Another point is that the lyrics to 'Kerowyn's Ride' are printed in the back of AFall. Much to my annoyance, the song is not recorded on HH&H, nor is it to be found in the songbook, or LL&L. What's more, the By The Sword album has no mention of the song! (Aargh!). Finally I tracked it down on MM&M, to find that, once again, the recorded version differed from the written version. The same principle can be said to apply here, with time and translation producing a slightly different song than the one we were expecting. One can only wonder, if misty ever writes a trilogy about the founding, what the Windrider and Sun and Shadow cycles will be like! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:49:20 -0500 (EST) From: aaron douglas bilodeau To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Rolan, casting & shaych (no, they aren't connected) Message-ID: > (It seems like I always manage to collapse my own arguments before > anyone else has time to, thank you very much. Am I the only one with > this problem? :) > > > > > -Seanna (who likes parentheses :) > > Absolutely not! I often find myself wandering away from the subject at hand, until I finish my post with some lame ending that had absolutely nothing to do with what I had originally intended it to, while managing to leave out the crucial points I wanted to make. Furthermore, I all too often see the other side so well that I anticipate their arguments and make them for them. Of course, I will often make their point a little too strongly and be left with nothing to say in reply. That's usually when I hit Cancel Message. Where was I going with this? Summerstorm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:03:08 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Songs Message-ID: <199604042103.OAA09224-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla all! >>>ObMisty : >>>Can anyone tell me why the lyrics of Kerowyn's Ride (on MMM) differ from >>>the printed thing in AFall? >Another bad one is the Meetings song on Heralds, Harpers and >Havoc (I think) where there's another verse added even!! As well as the >more common changed words and stuff.... Another one: "Lizard Dreams" from "Oathbound" got _totally_ changed, like I think one in every three verses was cut and the rest overhauled. "Demonsbane" from "Shadow Stalker" also got a lot of changes. Almost all the songs (at least on the four Misty tapes I have) got at least a change or so. Zhai'helleva and Cheysuli i'halla shansu, "If I could walk that way I wouldn't need aftershave lotion!" - Eric Idle *************************************************** Jesse von Kirchner, Apprentice to His Lordship Chosa Dei, High Wizard of Ysaa-Den and rightful ruler of both north and south. *************************************************** .---. .-. __.|\__/|.__ | | / o o\ _ | | | | /( ) \ . | | | `-' | / \#/ \ _// | `-' .---' | |/ ( `---. `--. | | | |_/ | .--` (~\ | | / ~) | | __\_|| ||_ /__ | | _///_//_| |_\\__\\\___|_| ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:08:32 -0500 (EST) From: aaron douglas bilodeau To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: reading speed (fairly off-topic) Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 1996 ramsdend-+AT+-uk.psi.com wrote: > On a good Day I get throuh about 2 of the belgariad > books, generally whenever i get a new book i read it till I've > finished. I read Lord of Chaos in about 5 hours or so. > > Compared to most ppl on here it seems my collection of 500 odd books > is a bit piddly, oh well. > > I think I do quite well in the early reading stage as I had read the > hobbit and C S lewis seris when i was 5 and completed the Lord of The > Rings by the time I was 7. > > -David 'No alt' Ramsden > Well i'm impressed. I got into the Narnia books at age six or seven (my dad read me a chapter every night, but I thought that was too slow so I read them myself.), and I've been borrowing his books ever since, so my personal collection really is piddly (four bookshelves!). I read LOTR at age ten, I think, nothing special there. A good day, left to myself, I can take down two Narnia-sized books over the entire day; not too spectacular there, either. I guess my only claim to fame is that I recieved my very first book of my very own for my second birthday (and read it right then and there! Mom was so proud...). I don't even remember what it was, but I can't go to a family reunion without that being mentioned. (I'm 20 yrs old.) I can sympathize with Vanyel very easily when he mentions his crazy family. Of course, my family was just the opposite, always praising me for each and every little thing. Especially when I felt I didn't deserve it. But, as usual, I digress... Summerstorm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:09:51 -0700 (MST) From: mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa And Tina) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Jennifer Roberson's e-mail addy Message-ID: <199604042209.PAA14668-+AT+-usr1.primenet.com> NAH! NAH! Guess what I found in the back of "Lady of the Glen"? Wow! you're smart. What's that? you read the subject line? I knew you weren't phsycic...I'm so dissapointed... (All of that silliness was in defferance to those who dislike one-line messages. See, if not for you, I would have shut up by now...) Her e-mail is JRoberson-+AT+-genie.geis.com Just don't tell her who sent you! I live in the same state, and she could come after me! ~~~~~~~~~~Lady 'Reesa~~~~~~~~~~mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com~~~~~~~~~~~) "In a way, Sam had been like the clothes he'd worn; all ) one color on the surface, pure evil at first glance...but ) that shadow was supported and held together by a ) thousand other patches that made him what he was...a ) thousand shades of grey and a cluster of patches of ) rainbow, covered unfairly by the blanket definition of evil" ) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:21:04 -0600 (CST) From: Chelsea Amberle Fischer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elementals Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 1996 dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl wrote: > but wasn't Trevalyen the griffon in the whatsit trilogy? Or is it too long > since I read these books? She certainly married someone with an T .... or Treyvan is the griffin in the Mage Winds series, Jisa married Treven in the LHM series. ---Chelsea ******************************************* Ream ember us poke in cent tense all mows stall ways con deign sword snot in ten did. ******************************************* http://www.unt.edu/~caf0001 caf0001-+AT+-jove.acs.unt.edu Chelsea Fischer ******************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:25:09 -0500 (EST) From: "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: First Books Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 1996 Susan5683-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > also the Nightingale by Kara Dalkey bore only some resemblance to the fairy > tale Um, I loved "Nightingale" and it is a very faithful rendition of the story, except for the change of venue and the fact that the 'nightingale' in the story is a woman. But the basic plot line is much closer to the original than any of the others in the series that I have read (with the exception of "Snow White, Rose Red"). For those who are interested, the novel "Nightingale" is set in the Heian-kyo period of Japanese history and the main character, the "nightingale", is a court lady who is a musician. The setting and style draws heavily on the imagery and style of novels such as "Tale of Genji." Go out and read it! right now!! don't wait for anything!!! > obmisty: Nobody steals your musical devices or recording devices on Velgarth Sure they do. Didn't Van take throw-away instruments with him when he was undercover in HighJorune precisely because he might be forced to abandon them or they might be stolen? Also, didn't Withen try to take Van's lute at one point? He certainly forbade Van to play at Haven. I don't think that there *are* recording devices in Velgarth. But if there were, I am sure that Skiff or one of his sibs-in-spirit would steal them. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: 29 Mar 96 22:01:19 EST From: "Jake (Rynath *OIB*)" <102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: M-L mailing list Cc: Holly -- MMV <103152.3472-+AT+-compuserve.com>, Subject: New Misty Humor Message-ID: <960330030118_102744.2515_GHT60-1-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> -------------------------------------------------- VRONDI IN YOUR SOUL With apologies to They Might Be Giants Lyrics by Jake / Rynath 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com -------------------------------------------------- I'm a little cloud I'm not the only cloud But I'm a little glowing cloud But really, I'm not actually a cloud But I am CHORUS: Vanyel set us up with magic down in Valdemar To keep watch over you Make room for a vrondi in your soul Not to put too fine a point on it Magic? We'll bug you if we know you got it Make room for a vrondi in your soul I have a secret to tell Vanyel used a magic spell He brought us forth and made us watch for magic and we do it well So if you use it you see, We'll tell the Heralds eventually He promised us some ley lines And that means we D-I-N-E Our span is infinite Like a sentry vigilant We cannot rest CHORUS We've been around here you see For a while through magickery We stand along borders and Valdemar stays magic-free It seems the people forgot How magic with Vanyel was hot We keep our vigil, anyway, whether you know of us or not Blue eyes and cuddly guise We are the Herald's eyes We're always near CHORUS (Try some magic and you will soon have room for eyes which probe into your soul.) --------------------------------------------------------- (Yes, another one. Have fun...) I'halla shansu, ---------------===X> Rynath (OIB) / Jake 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fire Rose (SPOILERS) Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 1996 Susan5683-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > collaboration that is quite good, also catch The City Who Fought by Anne > Mccaffrey ( who is emphatically not Anne Rice aka Anne Rampling aka Anne > Roquelaire), S. M Stirling and Misty I think Just Anne and Stirling. Misty and Anne teamed up for _The Ship who Searched_. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:44:49 -0500 (EST) From: "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tarma Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 1996 Susan5683-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > > the answer is simple, you are not saying sexually attractive, you are saying > beautiful in the way the Pieta is beautiful or the moon on a really clear > night is beautiful--besides she is lovely and there is a certain symmetry, > fluidity of form in a woman that is more obvious than in a man as designed by > God/dess Well, really the confusion arises from the fact that I ordinarily consider the male form to be much more aesthetically pleasing and beautiful than the female form. Emmanuelle is the glaring exception in this trend. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:43:37 -0800 From: Todd Sherman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lewis and Tolkien Message-ID: <199604042243.OAA28813-+AT+-phoenix> >sorry it took me so long to reply, i started with a Wrinkle in Time, also >anything early Heinlein then i never stopped--i believe the early childrens >Andre Norton, like Lavender Green Magic and later Moon Called figured >prominently > I got me start with a winkle in time too... and charlotts web, which is *kinda* a fantasy, I guess. Any one else read the people books by Zenna Henderson? Or the witch mt. books by Alexander Key? Monolith Man of Stone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:53:54 -0800 From: Todd Sherman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: warnings Message-ID: <199604042253.OAA29748-+AT+-phoenix> >Well...coming at this in a different direction: I know that *I* would throw >a book in the trash if it's main hero was a homophobe. Then I'd tell >everyone not to read it! (Of course, if part of the plot was for the >person to *cease* being a homophobe, that would be different.) That makes me think of a ObMisty... Why is it that all the villians seem like they are either homophobic, or homosexual? I guess this isn't even just about Misty's creations... Other fantasy authors often do the same. Monolith Man of stone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 17:59:16 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: McCaffery/Rice/Rampling Message-ID: <04APR96.19427016.0020.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Well, if I were Anne McCaffrey, and I deliberately set out to change my writing style in order to produce trashy, badly-written, pretentious, overly-hip vampire books, I wouldn't put my name on them, either. I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. I really don't hate Anne Rice, I just think her books are rather silly, and they take themselves oh-so-seriously. The Vampire Lestat was the best of the three or four I read, and even it left me pretty cold. The movie, IMO, was markedly better than any of the books. It made clear what I thought were the essential themes, and it cut out all the endless descriptions of things no one cared about. Does anyone else remember the three-page description of ivy in Interview???? Ayk. Actually, I enjoyed the movie very much indeed. And, boy, are the English teachers of the world lucky that no one tried to pull that "fantasy dulls your mind" crap on me. I was kind of an urban legend among English teachers back home anyway for being anti-authoritarian and too smart for my own damn good. I never met a teacher that had the willpower to argue me down when I dug my heels in, and to this day I've never had less than an A in an English class (other classes and other teachers, yes, but somehow never English). Does Beowulf dull your mind? Does the Odyssey dull your mind? Are you unable to think clearly after the witches and prophecies of Macbeth? Are you a slack-jawed, drooling moron after you read Thomas Malory's Tales of King Arthur and His Knights? How about John Steinbeck's version? Is Hans Christian Anderson a great corrupter of youth? And, oh, by all means, please do try to tell me that Kafka's Metamorphosis or Goethe's Faust is going to rot my mind. So there goes the theory about all books wherein "things that could never happen in the real world" being dangerous trash. Just tell your teacher that you don't expect to have to read any Edgar Allen Poe or Nathaniel Hawthorne, fantasy being so bad for you and all. Compromise, though. Tell your teacher you'll name all the characters Mary and Bilbo. Shouldn't have any trouble pronouncing those Christ. Fantasy is only the oldest genre on the planet. What kind of an education are you people getting? ("What are they teaching in school these days?" as Professor Kirke would say in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe)The assumption that one book is appropriate reading while another is not, based on whether or not it could happen, just galls me. The Bridges of Madison County could happen. It's still a stupid book. You'd learn more from Tailchaser's Song. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 18:21:57 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Shaych, was Tarma Message-ID: <04APR96.19835143.0020.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Okay, I wasn't going to say anything more about this, since it is pretty off-topic, but I have to make just one small point. Someone said that heterosexuality was human nature, an instinct. Now, human survival does depend on a fair amount of heterosexual behavior, for obvious reasons. Therefore, the drive to ensure survival of the species will encourage heterosexual behavior in most human beings. Not arguing that. But modern sociology is pretty convinced (though there are dissenters in the ranks) that humans DO NOT POSSESS social instincts. Some basic physical responses, yes, and some needs to be filled. But we do not have one "natural" system by which we fill those needs. For example, humans seem to have an emotional need to belong to a group, to form families and other bonded relationships (clans, tribes, etc.) But every society has different social structures, different expectations about which group identity will be primary, which relationships are the most valid or the most desirable. Some societies consider the bond between mother and child to be essential and powerful: ours is one. Other societies don't see anything so mystic about motherhood, and children often have very little contact with their genetic mothers. Other relationships supercede that supposedly "natural" bond. Heterosexuality is the same. All societies, everywhere, insist on a certain amount of heterosexual behavior. But the form that need to survive as humans takes can be radically different from place to place and time to time. Greek men were expected to marry; it was a patriotic duty. But when they served in the army, they were expected to take lovers from among their comrades; it was a bonding process, intended to foster a group spirit. The modern U.S. Army also has rituals and social pressures intended to foster group spirit. They just take a different approach to solving the problem. In certain tribal cultures, homosexuality was the norm, except for at certain times of the year, when mating occured between the genders (segregated during the rest of the year). These cultures still expected heterosexual behavior from the people; a culture that did not would obviously not survive. IMO, neither could such a culture survive if the majority of the people were strictly committed to sex with the opposite gender and desperately unhappy living in a homosocial environment. Which implies to me that in those cultures, the majority of the people were content to form their primary emotional and continuing sexual relationships with members of their own gender. Which in turn implies to me that SOCIALIZATION HAS A LOT MORE TO DO WITH SEXUAL BEHAVIOR THAN IS IMMEDIATELY OBVIOUS TO US, limited as we are by our own socialization and our own ingrained beliefs about what is the "normal" or "obvious" way to do something -- or the "right" way. That's all I've been saying all along. Sexual behavior is heavily influenced by socialization, i.e. by the teachings and customs of your culture. Not completely, or a devotedly heterosexual society such as ours would produce only devoted heterosexuals, which is obviously not the case. But heavily influenced. Oh, and by the by, I was defining bisexual not as a perfect Kinsey-scale 3, with no preferences toward either gender over the other, but in a loose sense, meaning people who may be in some circumstances open to carrying on a sexual relationship with a person of either gender. That would be, in Kinsey terms, 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, and 5s. Bisexual may not be the ideal word for this group of people, but our language does not contain another, more accurate term, or at least not one of which I am aware. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:19:51 -0600 From: "Saajak" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: three-fold goddesses Message-ID: I was digging around in our college library last night (a favorite pastime of mine) and I found Edith Hamilton's Mythology. I paged through it, and the only goddesses I could find that had three aspects were the Muses and Artemis. For all you Artemis non-believers out there, here is the whole selection (minus a few poetry stanzas to save time and space) from the book.... Artemis (Diana) Apollo's twin sister, daughter of Zeus and Leto. She was one of the three maiden goddesses of Olympus. She was the Lady of Wild Things, Huntsman-in-chief to the gods, an odd office for a woman. Like a good huntsman, she was careful to preserve the young; she was "the protectress of dewy youth" everywhere. Nevertheless, with one of those startling contradictions so common in mythology, she kept the Greek Fleet from sailing to Troy until they sacrificed a maiden to her. In many another story, too, she is fierce and revengeful. On the other hand, when women died a swift and painless death, they were held to be slain by her silver arrows. As Phoebus was the Sun, she was the Moon, called Phoebe and Selene (Luna in Latin). Neither name originally belonged to her. Phoebe was a Titan, one of the older gods. So to was Selene- a moon-goddess, indeed, but not connected with Apollo. She was the sister of Helios, the sun-god with whom Apollo was confused. In the later poets, Artemis is identified with Hecate. She is "the goddess with three forms", Selene in the sky, Artemis on earth, Hecate in the lower world and in the world above when it is wrapped in darkness. Hecate was the Goddess of the Dark of the Moon, the black nights when the moon is hidden. She was associated with deeds of darkness, the Goddess of the Crossways, which were held to be ghostly places of evil magic. It is a strange transformation from the lovely Huntress flashing through the forest, from the Moon making all beautiful with her light. In her is shown most vividly the uncertainty between good and evil which is apparent in every one of the Greek divinities. The Cypress is sacred to her; and all wild creatures, but especially the deer. "We're Starfleet Officers. Weird is a part of the job." Stacey ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 458 *********************************