MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 466 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Book lovers by George of the Jungle 2) Re: Book lovers by Heather Watson 3) Re: Rolan's abilities by LSFG20A-+AT+-prodigy.com (MS KIM H MILLER) 4) Sexism in Misty by "Stormcloud" 5) Big-list by Mannaheim 6) Re: re flaming newbies by Mannaheim 7) Re: Stef's duties was re: Companion-names (fwd) by Birgit Hanel 8) Re: McCaffrey/Rice/Rampling--Help! by Mark Mains 9) Re: GAYS [FIGURES] by "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" 10) Greeting by Mark Mains 11) Multi-tasking (was Re: McCaffrey/Rice/Rampling--Help!) by "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" 12) ADMIN: Auntie Mel's rules ... by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 13) Re: Rolan by Chelsea Amberle Fischer 14) Re: Off topic, sexual orientation by Chelsea Amberle Fischer 15) Re: McCaffery/Rice/Rampling by Joan Ferguson 16) Re: Lyrics by EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org 17) Re: GAYS [really off-topic] by Marissa K Lingen 18) re flaming newbies by Tammy Harris 19) Re: Root of lesbian by "deanca" 20) Re: Men in power (was Re: Root of lesbian) by Mannaheim 21) Re: Book lovers by Marissa K Lingen 22) getting a dulled mind by Birgit Hanel 23) Re: Tarma in Winds series by "deanca" 24) Re: reading speed (fairly off-topic) by HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu 25) Re: People names (was re:companion names) by HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 11:33:22 -0400 (EDT) From: George of the Jungle To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Book lovers Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Apr 1996 HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu wrote: > I still feel sorry for whoever it was who said they couldn't read and walk at > the same time. The trick is to hold the book high up so over the top of it and > below it you can see any obstacles. At least, that's what I do. ANy other > techniques? > > Shadowspun > Personally, I hold the book a little low so that I can still see obstacles clearly over it. Low but slanted up, that's how I do it. Songwind ---------- With my luck, the entrance exam to Heaven will have logarithms on it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 10:58:20 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Book lovers Message-ID: <09APR96.11850054.0070.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Now, you guys knock off irritating your teachers. Yes, I know that reading is more fun than paying attention in a class where you already know what's being taught. I used to do the same thing, and teachers used to hate it, too. But now that I've student-taught a bunch of 16 year old world history students, I've discovered that it really IS unbearably annoying!! It's disrespectful, for one thing, and it also encourages the other, less brilliant students in the class to regard the whole enterprise as a waste of time that they can safely ignore as well. I've seen it in action, guys, and believe me, you may not think you're doing anyone any harm, but you're playing merry hell with your teachers' authority and the general learning environment of the classroom. Please, for heaven's sake, just don't do it. HTH ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 12:02:53 EDT From: LSFG20A-+AT+-prodigy.com (MS KIM H MILLER) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Rolan's abilities Message-ID: <097.05540491.LSFG20A-+AT+-prodigy.com> Regarding the debate as to why Rolan did not mindspeak Talia, but did mindspeak Dirk - I never considered that it was lack of ability on Rolan's part that he did not mindspeak Talia, but rather that Talia did not have the gift to receive it. Is there any evidence that other Companions ever mindspoke Talia? I also don't think that a grove-born companion would necessarily have any and all gifts that a "regular" companion would have. I think it would be more of an individual thing. Does anyone have thoughts on this? Lady Kim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 12:21:32 EST From: "Stormcloud" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Sexism in Misty Message-ID: <1B993D5BC5-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU> Adrienne York wrote: > On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating wrote: > > the powers that be in Karse and set a woman in power, but changed her > > mind about how exactly to do it. BTW: I wonder why Vkandis picked > > Solaris? Maybe just a hint of sexism in Misty's books? She never has > > men in position of power unless they are villains. Even Daren is clearly > > not constructed in the text as a powerful figure. All the men in power > > who are principle characters are villains: Mornelithe, Darkwind's dad, > > Ancar, Charliss, Tremane, the King of Rethwellan in Oathbreakers, etc. > > The only good men in power are kept outside the storyline (King > > Faramentha, the younger brother in Oathbreakers (once he comes to power > > the story is over), and Randale (he is incapacitated by illness and sort > > of peripheral to the story)). What do others think? > > I think your list is too inclusive in what one would call a villain. > Darkwind's dad, Charliss, and Tremane need at least a little more > consideration before simply denouncing them as evil. And what about the > King of the Haighlei, in fact almost all of the rulers in the Gryphon books? Are we counting Vanyel among those not in power? I'd say he was pretty high up in the power structure himself. Darkwind's dad wasn't a villain, only in the first Winds book. What about Urtho? Or Amberdrake? -+AT+->--- Stormcloud In the name One in Black of the Moon Jenna, the Misty maniac I'll punish you! jwil3969-+AT+-simcl.stjohns.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:24:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Mannaheim To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Big-list Message-ID: I'd like to know who all is working on this Big-List thing k? And BTW, I'd appreciate it if whoever is working on the list wouldn't put my address, if they somehow have it, which I hope no one does. Mannaheim -=-=-=-patw-+AT+-clark.edu-=-=-=-Mannaheim-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "He teaches like Speedy Gonzalez on a caffeine high." =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:29:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Mannaheim To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re flaming newbies Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote: > > > Look, Mage of Green Silences, that was totally uncalled for!!!!! And > > if you were going to flame, couldn't you have done it off-list?? Are > > you trying to humilate people here? Just because someone is new to > > the list (and probaly new to their e-mail software as well!!) and > > doesn't know the rules and courtesies DOES NOT mean you can go off > > and torch them! Send a private e-mail with a tutorial in it if it > > bothers you! Sheesh. > > > > > > Rozanna n'ha Iris e-mail: rozanm-+AT+-webster.nl > > Well, for whoever wanted to know, the above message was an excellent > example of flaming. Read it and learn well. :) > Lady Becky > > Ah, but if you notice, Mage of Green Silences is not a newbie, so it's OK! Mannaheim -=-=-=-patw-+AT+-clark.edu-=-=-=-Mannaheim-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "He teaches like Speedy Gonzalez on a caffeine high." =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 18:32:45 +0200 (METDST) From: Birgit Hanel To: Misty mail Subject: Re: Stef's duties was re: Companion-names (fwd) Message-ID: Sorry, have to forward this, 'cause silly computer said I'm not subscribed and bounced, d*** it... On Tue, 2 Apr 1996 Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > I have a question. What does Stef do in the forest with Van? I mean Van has > the magical abilities and such and Stef is only a bard. What does he do to > protect Valdemar's nrthern border? Is he there just to keep Vanyel happy? I'm > rather confused and I'm not really trying to make Stef out to be the weakling > totally dependent on Vanyel or anything but what does he do? > > Zhai'helleva! > > Lady Moonsong Maybe he's working magic, too. In WFury he tells Skif and Nyara about the grove he had shaped, IIRC. The reason that made me think of Stefen having some mage-pontential was this incident with Yfandes at the end of MPrice, when he pulls the leech-dagger or -arrow out of her side. How could he do that when it took a Hawkbrother-Adept to remove the leech-blade from Van's shoulder ? Going off for a veeeeeery long weekend (Easter), which means 4 days without Net- or eMail-access Khenta B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 12:35:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mains To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk, mamain01-+AT+-ukcc.uky.edu Subject: Re: McCaffrey/Rice/Rampling--Help! Message-ID: <199604091635.MAA22283-+AT+-service1.cc.uky.edu> On April 9 1996 Rozanna wrote: >I never said they couldn't do it, just that a greater percentage of >women seem to be able to do it than men.[multitasking] And it would make sense too, becasue if a woman could only do one thing at one time, the human >race would not be where it is today. Imagine . . . if a woman could >only cook, and do nothing else while one meal was cooking, actually >while one dish was cooking, nursing babies would go hungry, the house >would never be clean (causing more deaths from infection), etc. I think that you are over generalizing there, Rozanna. However, to counter the point that you raised if men couldn't multitask the human race would be extinct also. For example, primordial man had to stalk prey, keep silent, watch for other predators, and coordinate his activities with the hunting party all at once....otherwise no food for the women to cook. **************************************************************************** ******** Mark Mains email: mamain01-+AT+-pop.uky.edu University of Kentucky "PURATINISM: The fear that someone somewhere may be happy" **************************************************************************** ******** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 12:45:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: GAYS [FIGURES] Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, STOKES J wrote: > Can someone then tell me ; if the official figures say that only 1 in 10 > people are gay why is it that in my office of 60-70 workers there are > about 20 people who are openly gay and at least 1 bisexual plus a few > more who it is thought are gay but are not out? The official statistic of 1 in 10 (which has come under some attack recently, but is still a good average guesstimate) refers to an idealized randomly selected population. What that means is that, all other things being equal, we would expect 10% of a sample to be gay. However, don't forget that no sample is perfect. Particularly a sitch such as you describe. Your work population is not selected to be representative of an ideal population (unless you work in a very odd enviro). One thing that does seem to happen is that companies, divisions, etc. get a reputation (via word-of-mouth, usually) as being gay-positive. Naturally, they start to accumulate l/g/b's. A similar situation has occured at my university in the Housing and Res-Life division. They have a very high incidence of l/g/b personnel (over 70%). In this case, it is because they require a strong commitment to multi-culturalism and diversity programs. L/g/b's in college tend to have that commitment. Also, the powers of Housing prefer to hire l/g/b's for reasons of solidarity (I think it is sort of a unofficial affirmative action *grin*). Not the best reason, but it does happen. Anyway, there are some of my thoughts. Gee, ain't they purty? May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 12:50:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mains To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk, mamain01-+AT+-ukcc.uky.edu Subject: Greeting Message-ID: <199604091650.MAA25953-+AT+-service1.cc.uky.edu> Hello everyone! I have been lurking around the group for the last week or so but I think that now is the time to formally introduce myself to this group of Kindred souls. Everyone of the letters I have read about being a bibliophile, loving Misty's books, etc could have been written by me. I discovered misty when I was in high school and have been a loyal and devoted fan since. About myself: I am a 21 yo college student at the University of Kentucky where I am majoring in Secondary Education and Agriculture biotechnology. I work at Waldenbook sometimes (mainly because even though I only get minimum wage I get a 33% discount on all the books I buy :) ) [I give this little bio simply because I consider it proper netiquette to introduce oneself] Question: I apologize in advance if I ask a question that is explained in one of Misty's books. I am at school for the year and as much as I would like to I can't bring the shelves of books I have from my home to my dorm....consequently I am doing all of this from memory. I was curious about the cats of the sun lords. Does anyone have any info about them? Any theories? Are they spirits similar (same as?) the companions but in a diffrent form? Thanks in advance for the answers. **************************************************************************** ******** Mark Mains email: mamain01-+AT+-pop.uky.edu University of Kentucky "PURATINISM: The fear that someone somewhere may be happy" **************************************************************************** ******** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 13:07:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" To: Rozanna McNeer Cc: "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" , Subject: Multi-tasking (was Re: McCaffrey/Rice/Rampling--Help!) Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote: > > > I never said they couldn't do it, just that a greater percentage of > women seem to be able to do it than men. And it would make sense too, > becasue if a woman could only do one thing at one time, the human > race would not be where it is today. Imagine . . . if a woman could > only cook, and do nothing else while one meal was cooking, actually > while one dish was cooking, nursing babies would go hungry, the house > would never be clean (causing more deaths from infection), etc. In > the time it takes to make chicken soup from scratch you can: clean > the bathroom, do the dishes, feed the baby, and sew a hem on a dress > or pants (I'm talking about making stock as well, here, boil > bones/skin/veggies over night kind of thing) and carry on a > conversation throughout. Whereas some males have problems with > driving and talking at the same time. What an amazingly multivalent sexist posting. I am stunned. First of all, none of the task you mention are sex-specific. Men can do all of them, simultaneously, with at least as much success as women (with the exception of nursing a baby--which is a physical limitation that has nothing to do with any multi-tasking capabilities). In fact, I have been known to do all of those task and more without any problems. Besides, I think that the tasks that are considered "man stuff" in your kind of world-view require an equal amount of multi-tasking. Hunting, for example. Or working in industry (the modern equivalent). Not that these are really the exclusive province of men; my mother is an excellent hunter, as is my sister. And if you do not think that hunting requires paying attention to multiple tasks at the same time, I suggest you try it and see how it goes. The whole point is that the task you mention are not sex-determined and men and women can perform them with equal skill (ignoring certain physical limitations). Actually, I am better at the skills you mention as "women's skills" than my sister (or most women I know). That doesn't mean that women are not good at them, just that *I* am (due to training, socialization, and personal interest). And I don't know any men who fit your belittling description of "have problems talking and driving a car at the same time." I suggest you take a few classes in Gender Studies before you go around insulting an entire half of the human race! (in case you can't tell, I am MAD!!!!!) I had better stop before I say something really nasty. Finally, you still have not cited one study or paper as evidence of your claim. My whole commentary started because you claimed that your view was accepted by the contemporary psychological community. I would like to see some evidence to that effect. I certainly have not run across any such claims (and while I am not a psychologist, I do hear a lot since I am getting my degree from a Cognitive Science department). Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 18:26:32 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey Subject: ADMIN: Auntie Mel's rules ... Message-ID: <9604091726.AA10288-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> I note another upsurge in large sigs, oneline posts, all that fun stuff. So, once again, it's time for: Auntie Mel's Rules of Thumb for Sensible Posting: 1) Trim quoted text. Trim headers to the minimum. We're looking for something along the lines of " said:" rather than six lines of quoted header with no content. Is all of what you're quoting still relevant? We want enough left to keep track of the discussion, not its entire history. BUT -- see 1a). 1a) Preserve attributions. Try, however, to keep track of who did say what. Being misquoted is annoying; being quoted as saying something you did not, more so. 2) Think before you post. I try to read through all of the list mail that has arrived before I post; especially on the weekends, if someone has a general question, the chances are extremely good that someone else will already have answered before I see it. It is obvious that with the delays caused by processing the mail, sending it out, etc., you can't guarantee that nobody will have answered a question before you, but if a couple of days have gone past, the chances aren't bad. 2a) Keep the fluff level down. People's mail systems vary, and many people receive the mailings as a digest. The latter group, in particular, cannot just delete individual messages, and I will _not_ tolerate people being driven from the group because they cannot keep up with the level of mail, if that level is being artificially inflated by fluff. I don't mind the occasional off-topic message, but if you're posting several such per day, consider yourself warned. (Alt.books.m-lackey, the Lackey newsgroup, is far fluff-heavier than this list, and this is most likely because it is (generally) easier to skip unwanted articles within news readers rather than mail readers. It is also the main reason why I read about two articles a day from the newsgroup, if that.) 2b) One-liners are a Bad Thing. If you feel that you have to respond to someone with a one-line comment, and that comment is not an answer to a question that has been asked, consider replying by mail directly to that person. (Comment: at the moment, because this is a _discussion_ list, the default is that, when one hits the 'Reply' button, the mail is directed to the list at large, rather than the sender of the message to which you are replying. If you do not know how to change this, if necessary, you should talk to your local support folks. Asking for help on the list is unlikely to be productive, since we don't know what mail system you're using, and they vary wildly.) 2c) Long .signature files are Right Out. The suggested length of signatures on Usenet is four lines. On this list, where many people post several times a day, it is probably safe to assume that people will remember who you are after the first post. Therefore, attaching an 8 - 10 line signature to every post is seen as antisocial. Don't do it. 2d) But, but, why can't they just delete or skip over or unsubscribe? Why should they have to? Some people pay for every byte of mail they receive. (Yes, this is still the case in some countries.) Some people pay phone charges to download their mail. (Just about anyone in the UK who logs in from home, for starters; local calls are not free in the UK.) I -- or, to be strictly accurate, my business -- pay for the link to the Net over which list mail is sent. Yes, your off-topic postings can inconvenience people. Yes, your long signature is costing people money. No, they can't just ignore it. So don't be so damn selfish. 3) If you've got a query about how to subscribe/unsubscribe/(etc).... Read the FAQ. The relevant section is posted here semi-regularly; it's also available via the Web, via FTP, or by mail. Web: http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/lackey_list/lackey_faq.html FTP: ftp://ftp.herald.co.uk/pub/lists/lackey-archives/lackey_faq.1 Mail: send mail to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk, leave the subject line blank or use "No Subject", message to read get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.1 Don't post your query to the list. If it's a list-related question, and the answer's not in the FAQ, then send me mail at lackey-owner-+AT+-herald.co.uk. Bear in mind that I work (fairly) normal office hours -- this means that questions mailed to me over a weekend may not be answered until Monday. I might log in over the weekend, but assuming that that will be the case is likely a Bad Idea. 4) Other things not to post: Almost anything that you have found online, unless it's obviously and specifically Lackey-related. _Especially_ if it says "Please post this to anywhere you can". Notable examples: - anything saying "Make Money Fast" - any mention of the Good Times virus (it doesn't exist) - any request for postcards/business cards/get well cards/ to be sent to a little boy who's dying of cancer (he didn't die; he's still alive, and he really, really doesn't want any more cards. Neither does his local Post Office, which is also my local office at home!) - anything about forthcoming legislation (this is an international list, and as such any legislation is likely to apply to no more than half of the people on the list) If you think that there should be an exception, mail the item concerned to me -- mel-+AT+-herald.co.uk -- and if I agree with you, I'll forward it to the list. But I'm an unreasonable bitch, as you probably already gathered by reading the rest of this post, so don't get your hopes up. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 12:34:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Chelsea Amberle Fischer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Rolan Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote: > Gorve-born and Fandes wasn't. Rolan, by virtue of being Grove-born, > should have more capability than any other companion ever, except for > another Grove born!!! Okay, *stupid* question follows...... What exactly does Grove-Born mean? I'm sure it's outlined in at least one of the books/series's that I haven't read yet, but I haven't read them yet, so I'm clueless... :) **HELP!** ---Chelsea ******************************************* Ream ember us poke in cent tense all mows stall ways con deign sword snot in ten did. ******************************************* http://www.unt.edu/~caf0001 caf0001-+AT+-jove.acs.unt.edu Chelsea Fischer ******************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 12:44:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Chelsea Amberle Fischer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Off topic, sexual orientation Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote: > of begetting a child. Then again, there are people like me who are > not having kids if they can help it, which isn't good either. Hmmm Keeping the world's current overpopulation problems in mind, "not having kids" is a wonderful thing at the moment....(IMHO :) ---Chelsea ******************************************* Ream ember us poke in cent tense all mows stall ways con deign sword snot in ten did. ******************************************* http://www.unt.edu/~caf0001 caf0001-+AT+-jove.acs.unt.edu Chelsea Fischer ******************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 13:54:50 -0400 From: Joan Ferguson To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: McCaffery/Rice/Rampling Message-ID: <199604091754.NAA12076-+AT+-elmer.Harvard.EDU> At 06:30 PM 4/9/96 +0100, you wrote: >I'm into vampires, too, but Anne Rice's other works are either (1) ridiculously >perverse (Exit To Eden, Belinda) or (2) ridiculously confusing (Lasher) My personal Rice favorite is "Cry to Heaven" - set in Italy, dealing with the castratti (male sopranos). An amazing book - and I've read *all* the Rice/Rampling/Roquelaire books - a stand-alone, well written (in the usual Rice style :-) and with a good story line and interesting characters. Like most Rice books, though, not for the faint of heart. Joan joan_ferguson-+AT+-harvard.edu Harvard University Library Preservation Office "Instead of loving your enemies,treat your friends a little better." -Edgar Watson Howe (1853-1937) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 14:21:30 -0400 (EDT) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lyrics Message-ID: <960409142130.99c-+AT+-bpl.org> The Shadow-lover argued (and then recanted later) that Tarma and Kethry were lovers. Seanna has suggested that Kal'enedral have given up sexual desire rather than sexual acts (under which she includes hugging, touching and cuddling) and says "Therefore I think Tarma and Keth might well have shared activities we'd call sexual, although the passion was absent (on Tarma's side). Actually, I'd like to think they were lovers." I doubt it. First of all, Keth never seemed to me to be the sort of persn who could have fun taking advantage of somebody who was just lying around like a piece of meat to be used. (Okay, that's a little strong, but I very firmly feel that if both parties aren't having fun, it might be sex but it sure ain't love.) Second of all, since when is a desire for touch, a hug, or a cuddle a *sexual* desire? You can be physically close to someone -- allow a person into your immediate personal space -- without being physically intimate -- involved on a hormonal/sexual level. Maybe I just have a different viewpoint because the person that I love more than anyone but my immediate family is the same gender as I am, but we are both, unmistakeably, heterosexual. If we haven't gotten into a passionate embrace by now, I don't think we're ever likely to. And yet, we hug, we touch. And I cuddle with my nieces and nephews, especially on cold days, when we are enjoying watching something. Does that make me a pederast? Tarma does not feel sexual desire. Kethry does. But horniness is not an excuse for Kethry to use Tarma to achieve sexual relief. Let's face it folks, unless you're feeling (ahem) involved, most sexual acts are -- well -- icky. (Okay, I think I've officially reached "ranting" here. *sigh* No offense meant.) Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 13:27:21 -0500 From: Marissa K Lingen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: GAYS [really off-topic] Message-ID: <199604091827.NAA23043-+AT+-dion.gac.edu> Okay, there's been some discussion of this subject, and this list seems to be filled with tolerant people, so I'll ask for help. My "best girlfriend" at home told me he was gay this weekend. I really wasn't sure what to say to him--I mean, when people say, "I'm okay with that", it seems so presumptuous--I always want to ask them, "Who the hell asked *you* to be okay with that?" I just sort of bumbled through with the doesn't make any difference to me and I still love you thing, but I don't know if that's enough--especially since I'm the first person he's told (17-year-old high school juniors in Nebraska are *not* advised to come out of the closet--at best it'd get them beaten bloody, at worst--who knows?). Any suggestions for anything else I could say? --Morticia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 13:40:47 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re flaming newbies Message-ID: <7391FE0351-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> On Tue, April 9, Rozanna wrote: > Look, Mage of Green Silences, that was totally uncalled for!!!!! And > if you were going to flame, couldn't you have done it off-list?? Are > you trying to humilate people here? Just because someone is new to > the list (and probaly new to their e-mail software as well!!) and > doesn't know the rules and courtesies DOES NOT mean you can go off > and torch them! Send a private e-mail with a tutorial in it if it > bothers you! Sheesh. Well, I may be clueless, but I thought that Cennydd was *joking*! Linda asked what flaming was, and he illustrated! No more, no less. Then, he went on to *very politely* mention some of the points of netiquette, which Linda had also asked about! At least, that's MHO (my humble opinion). Linda, don't worry about it. We were all new once! You'll get the hang of it, and if we get out of line, just ignore us, or give us a polite "pllbbbbtt". Welcome to the list, we're glad to have you! Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 02:40:41 +0000 From: "deanca" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Root of lesbian Message-ID: <199604091838.OAA10990-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> > > All the men in power > > who are principle characters are villains one word: URTHO -Free Bard Oriole known on IRC as Vrondi a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Careful the tale you tell, that is the spell." -The Witch from "Into The Woods" by Stephen Sondheim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 11:44:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Mannaheim To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Men in power (was Re: Root of lesbian) Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Tammy Harris wrote: > On Tue, April 9, Cennydd wrote: > > > > Maybe just a hint of sexism in Misty's books? She never has > > men in position of power unless they are villains. Even Daren is clearly > > not constructed in the text as a powerful figure. All the men in power > > who are principle characters are villains: Mornelithe, Darkwind's dad, > > Ancar, Charliss, Tremane, the King of Rethwellan in Oathbreakers, etc. > > The only good men in power are kept outside the storyline (King > > Faramentha, the younger brother in Oathbreakers (once he comes to power > > the story is over), and Randale (he is incapacitated by illness and sort > > of peripheral to the story)). What do others think? > > Umm Cennydd, I hate to point out the obvious, but aren't you > forgetting Vanyel?!! And Tremane ain't such a bad guy, once you get > to know him. Also, Ulrich. I'd consider some of the senior Heralds > to have some power, such as Elcarth, Kyril, Teren, Alberich. Not > rulers, but leaders of people none the less. > > Oops, gotta' get my assay in gear! > Tammy > > "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" > Are we saying that Urtho was not in power in the storyline? That Randale, the KING of VALDEMAR was not in power?! That Skandranon was not in power, nor Amberdrake? Nor Shalaman? I think not. :) Mannaheim -=-=-=-patw-+AT+-clark.edu-=-=-=-Mannaheim-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "He teaches like Speedy Gonzalez on a caffeine high." =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 13:47:30 -0500 From: Marissa K Lingen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Book lovers Message-ID: <199604091847.NAA23062-+AT+-dion.gac.edu> In regards to all this talk about reading in class: My senior year of high school, I averaged two books a day during the school day alone (if I got free time at night and wasn't doing other stuff, sometimes more). It just amazed people--"Weren't you reading, like, another book earlier?" "I finished it." "You started it this morning!" Some of my teachers got really upset about it, but most of them realized that they weren't teaching me anything and let me do basically what I wanted. --Morticia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 20:49:13 +0200 (METDST) From: Birgit Hanel To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: getting a dulled mind Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, Heather Watson wrote: > oh, by all means, please do try to tell me that Kafka's Metamorphosis or > Goethe's Faust is going to rot my mind. > > HTH > Ouch. Yes, I AM going to tell you that these two can rot your mind. Hmmm, at least they dulled my mind. I had to read them back at school, all along with Th. Mann's "Tod in Venedig" (Death in Venice, hi, Marissa ;)) and several others of the canon for the *Abitur* (btw what is the equivalent in UK/US? Graduation?). And my teacher trying to persuade me that a thigh-wound means impotence, even if it is directly above the knee, Freud all over again, bah. But she was rather open-minded and I recommended Frank Herbert's Dune to her (don't flame me, that was before I had ever heard of Misty!). It makes me kind of envious to see that The Hobbit was read in school, I wish we had had such entertaining reading! I didn't read Tolkien before I was 16 (oh, was that really 10 years ago?!) and *after* I had read the first S&S anthology. Now imagine my disappointment when there was only one fighting woman depicted in LotR and she gave it all up to live with a man... umpf. Dull stereotyping. My sister-in-law still thinks Tolkien is the non-plus-ultra in fantasy, now that makes me really mad sometimes. I just can't convince her. ObMisty: Who brought up the rumour that there will be a Misty-anthology? I'd really like to read Swordsworn in English. Maybe if we send petitions to the publisher... Bis denne Khenta Blaufalk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 02:46:39 +0000 From: "deanca" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tarma in Winds series Message-ID: <199604091844.OAA10997-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> > Well, student of my student of my student would be a mouthful. I > always thought s/he meant that s/he was one of Tarma's teachers. I > hope we would have heard if Tarma had died!!! I would hope to know of Tarma's death also, but did assume that this was Tarma. I don't have the Tarma/Kethry books with me right now, but once my she'enedra and I were trying to figure out Tamra and Kethry's ages. Well, we had it all calculated, but of course I don't remember right now. I do believe they were both like teenagers in Oathbound, and that in By The Sword they would have been pretty old, so I sort of assumed after reading the "student of my student" bit that Tarma passed on. -Free Bard Oriole known on IRC as Vrondi a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Careful the tale you tell, that is the spell." -The Witch from "Into The Woods" by Stephen Sondheim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 14:54:46 -0400 (EDT) From: HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: reading speed (fairly off-topic) Message-ID: <01I3CB3EOZI08ZEBDJ-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu> Isn't it fun to hear things like that, though. The kids getting back at the grownups early. I hope my kids start reading as early as we did, I actually want to be my dad, though, when it happens. I know, strange, eh? Shadowspun Oh, Mannaheim, I have to put my two cents in about Jennifer Roberson. She wrote Lady (in the/of) the Forest. It was a take on the Robin Hood story that I really didn't like very much. Although she has a really good story in one MZB's Fantasy Mags. :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 15:08:18 -0400 (EDT) From: HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: People names (was re:companion names) Message-ID: <01I3CBNNLUXM8ZEBDJ-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu> I'm sorry, I love Star Trek as much as the next person, but my kids will never be named after the characters so blatantly. Shadowspun ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 466 *********************************