MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 469 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own by Mannaheim 2) Re: Harmless Valgarth??? by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 3) Re: Talia's shielding by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 4) Re: Men in power by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 5) Re: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own by ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) 6) Re: Book lovers by Tammy Harris 7) Re: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own by "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" 8) Re: re gays by Mannaheim 9) Re: Kinda Off Topic, But Fantasy Related Anyway by Katherine M Brielmaier 10) Re: McCaffery/Rice/Rampling by "Stormcloud" 11) Re: reading /writing by "Stormcloud" 12) RE: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own by Roni Banker 13) Re: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own by "Icewolf" 14) Re: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own by Marissa K Lingen 15) Re: Falconer? by "AMY E. BAUER" 16) Books, books, books by Sandra K Haas 17) Re: GAYS by Heather Watson 18) Re: mailing by Sandra K Haas 19) Re: Tarma in Winds series by McCaffrey's White Dragon 20) Re: Lyrics by Mat Timmerman 21) Re: Talia's shielding by Mat Timmerman 22) Re: Skif's gifts by Mat Timmerman 23) Re: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own by Mat Timmerman 24) Re: Book lovers by HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu 25) Re: Sexism by Heather Watson 26) Re: Stef's duties was re: Companion-names by HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu 27) Re: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own by HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu 28) Re: S&S by Judy Hart ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 09:07:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Mannaheim To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Apr 1996 Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > On page 194 of AOTQ when Keren, Teren, and Talia were talking about Talamir > Keren said, "Grandfather used to claim he never knew what he was going to say > to the King beforehand, yet it was always exactly the right thing."- end > quote. A little while back in the book it said that Rolan took 2 months to > choose Talia after Talamir but wouldn't Selenay have ruled before than also? > What I'm getting at is that wouldn't Talamir have been advising the QUEEN not > the KING? Did I happen to find a typo or is that supposed to be like that? > Comments? > > Zhai'helleva! > > Lady Moonsong > Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com > > I think that when Talamir was younger he advised Selenays father before the king was assassinated in battle. Mannaheim -=-=-=-patw-+AT+-clark.edu-=-=-=-Mannaheim-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "He teaches like Speedy Gonzalez on a caffeine high." =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 17:46:47 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: vms.cis.pitt.edu!HATST5-+AT+-enterprise.cistron.nl, Subject: Re: Harmless Valgarth??? Message-ID: <316be973.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> > hmm? how about wyrsa that mutate? the can be pretty harmless. *grin* > > Shadowspun I'm going to go and sulk now. Where would you rather be? Downtown hometown or in downtown Havens? Stupid question, I know. I just wish Natoli & Co. would hurry up and build the SS Enterprise to take us there! /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Rozanna n'ha Iris e-mail: rozanm-+AT+-webster.nl Renunciate of Darkover Member of the Cat People/Huntress "feel the wildness hiding in the back of the shadows, lips pulled in an uncurbed, savage grin." Charles de Lint ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 17:50:32 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: aol.com!Raingcats-+AT+-enterprise.cistron.nl, Subject: Re: Talia's shielding Message-ID: <316be974.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> > On page 195 in AOTQ Elcarth teaches Talia how to shield. If someone as > competent as Elcarth taught her to shield (whether her gifts were under > control or not) then wouldn't her shields have stayed even when her gift went > wacko in Arrows Flight? Did Elcarth actually teach her wrong? that thought> Geez, you've guys have gotten me questioning a lot of > things since I joined this list. This is not all together a bad thing by the > way. It's fun, really. Comments? > > Zhai'helleva! > > Lady Moonsong I thought the reason the shielding didn't stick was because Ylsa was supposed to teach her, but assumed the Healer's had taught her, whn in reality she was operating on instinct. /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Rozanna n'ha Iris e-mail: rozanm-+AT+-webster.nl Renunciate of Darkover Member of the Cat People/Huntress "feel the wildness hiding in the back of the shadows, lips pulled in an uncurbed, savage grin." Charles de Lint ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 17:57:45 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: "Seanna" , Subject: Re: Men in power Message-ID: <316be976.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> > > Actually, I do think there's a hint (or more) of sexism in ML's > books: namely, why are the evil ones always male? And yes, there's > probably examples to the contrary (starting with that girl in > AFlight, and probably a few of the S&S stories, and the hand-maidens > in Burning Water..) but still, think about it. It may not seem like > sexism at first, but it is. Victim feminism vs. power feminism debate > springs to mind.. > > > -Seanna I really gues it depends on your p.o.v., doesn't it. I'm sure that Ancar thought that Selenay and Elspeth were evil /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Rozanna n'ha Iris e-mail: rozanm-+AT+-webster.nl Renunciate of Darkover Member of the Cat People/Huntress "feel the wildness hiding in the back of the shadows, lips pulled in an uncurbed, savage grin." Charles de Lint ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 17:54:15 GMT+0200 From: ROZANM-+AT+-webster.nl (Rozanna McNeer) To: aol.com!Raingcats-+AT+-enterprise.cistron.nl, Subject: Re: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own Message-ID: <316be975.webster-+AT+-mail.webster.nl> > On page 194 of AOTQ when Keren, Teren, and Talia were talking about >Talamir > Keren said, "Grandfather used to claim he never knew what he was going to say > to the King beforehand, yet it was always exactly the right thing."- end > quote. A little while back in the book it said that Rolan took 2 months to > choose Talia after Talamir but wouldn't Selenay have ruled before than also? > What I'm getting at is that wouldn't Talamir have been advising the QUEEN not > the KING? Did I happen to find a typo or is that supposed to be like that? > Comments? > > Lady Moonsong Didn't it say in the books that after Selenay's father died, Talimir was uncomfortable with advising the new, female, headstrong, beautiful Monarch, or something to that effect. I understood that Talamir advised both of them. /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Rozanna n'ha Iris e-mail: rozanm-+AT+-webster.nl Renunciate of Darkover Member of the Cat People/Huntress "feel the wildness hiding in the back of the shadows, lips pulled in an uncurbed, savage grin." Charles de Lint ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 11:10:13 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Book lovers Message-ID: <89101C2F8E-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> On Tue, April 9, Shadowspun wrote: > The trick is to hold the book high up so over the top of it and > below it you can see any obstacles. At least, that's what I do. > ANy other techniques? Personally, I just assume that obstacles will get out of my way--I mean, who's going to let a person loony enough to read & walk get too close to them? Inanimate objects generally get out of my way, too. Wall? What wall? My favorite trick is to read at stop lights, but only if it's a *really* good book (I do have *some* standards, after all!). On Wed, April 10, Julia wrote: > I haven't done much walking and reading at the same time recently, but does > anyone else read and watch TV at the same time? All the time! Once, I had a roommate come home and ask if I wanted him to turn off the tv. I said no, I was watching it, and he looked at me, looked at the book in my hand, then walked away, shaking his head. I've found, however, that reading, watching tv, and talking on the phone isn't a good idea--it tends to annoy the person on the other end. I dunno' why..... Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 12:19:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Apr 1996 Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > What I'm getting at is that wouldn't Talamir have been advising the QUEEN not > the KING? Did I happen to find a typo or is that supposed to be like that? > Comments? Remember that Talamir was the King's Own Herald to Selenay's father. So, he was advising/psyching a king. In fact, that was supposed to be part of the problem when Selenay got married: Talamir didn't feel comfortable advising her and couldn't give her the support she needed. BTW, does anyone else think this is weird? I have been wondering about this for a while now. Why doesn't the MO change when the monarch changes? I mean, we see this example from Selenay's life that the MO for one monarch is not necessarily the best choice for another monarch. Anyway, it is something to think about. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 09:43:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Mannaheim To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: re gays Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Apr 1996, Lady 'Reesa And Tina wrote: > > >ObMisty: There are songs in Valdemar, but is there poetry? > > > >Becky > > > > > I distinctly (Or is that di-stink-tly?) remember Eldan > telling Kero that he used to write bad poetry, but he stopped. > It probably had something to do with the sword levelled at his > heart... > (Was that a case for GDRANFLTNT? McCaffrey's White? You be the > judge!) > > ~~~~~~~~~~Lady 'Reesa~~~~~~~~~~mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com~~~~~~~~~~~) > > What the HECK is GDRANFLTNT?!!!!! <--Look 5! :) Someone please tell me!! PLEEEEAAAASE!... Mannaheim -=-=-=-patw-+AT+-clark.edu-=-=-=-Mannaheim-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "He teaches like Speedy Gonzalez on a caffeine high." =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 11:50:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Katherine M Brielmaier To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kinda Off Topic, But Fantasy Related Anyway Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Apr 1996, Lady 'Reesa And Tina wrote: > Has anyone seen "The Last Unicorn" recently? And what about > the book? I just borrowed the video from the library (It was my > favorite as a kid) and I was considering reading the book, but > I'd like some reveiws. > You know, I'm amazed at how much better it seems now. > It's almost like watching a totally new movie, but I know I'm > just catching all the "grown-up" stuff that I had no clue about > at seven or eight. > As long as I've got your attention, anybody know if I can > get the sound-track? I just love the title song. The name of the > band that did it is/was America, and I heard somewhere (Where is > "somewhere"?) that Peter Beagle had written them, but then, I > could just be making it up in my more-than-slightly delusional mind... The Last Unicorn is one of my all-time favorite books. I recommend it whole-heartedly. It's absolutely gorgeous--the plot, the writing, everything! As for the sound-track, well, I haven't seen it anywhere, but you could try used-CD stores, or maybe they have it available in a music club somewhere. 's e do bheatha, Kaatje ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 12:58:46 EST From: "Stormcloud" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: McCaffery/Rice/Rampling Message-ID: <3437EB056D-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU> > Ack! if ML took that long to write her books would we die or just go into > hibernation? > > Shadowspun No, I think we would all just start reading and rereading until we've all read her book 6 million times and have the same discussions over and over again! :) -+AT+->--- Stormcloud In the name One in Black of the Moon Jenna, the Misty maniac I'll punish you! jwil3969-+AT+-simcl.stjohns.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 13:06:15 EST From: "Stormcloud" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: reading /writing Message-ID: <3457992CCA-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU> Julia wrote: > Shadowspun wrote: > > > Yay! What ages did everybody start reading? Mom keeps telling me I > startes > > reading when I was two. > > I've been told I "taught myself to read" at age three. I don't remember > actually reading, but I do remember being assigned a symbol to mark my things > in pre-K, because the teacher assumed that 3-year olds couldn't recognize our > names. I couldn't understand why I had to look for a circle with a dot > instead of "JULIA". I forget when I started reading, but I started writing very young. My mother played a tape of me when I was three telling a story about a little girl named twinkle, and then in my preschool, the teacher --I question the use of that title for her-- yelled at me because I started writing. (At that point I could only hold the pencil in my fist, not in a normal writing position) She said I wasn't "supposed" to be writing yet. My mom complained to the principal and got the woman fired! That's my anecdote for the day! -+AT+->--- Stormcloud In the name One in Black of the Moon Jenna, the Misty maniac I'll punish you! jwil3969-+AT+-simcl.stjohns.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96 13:07:33 EDT From: Roni Banker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Apr 1996 12:03:53 +0100 Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com wrote: >What I'm getting at is that wouldn't Talamir have been advising the QUEEN not >the KING? Did I happen to find a typo or is that supposed to be like that? >Comments? Wasn't most of Talamir's tenure as Monarch's Own to Selanay's father, Sendar? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 13:26:21 EST5EDT From: "Icewolf" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own Message-ID: <31452D62141-+AT+-apps.sbu.edu> *Lyn, following Auntie Mel's rules for sensible posting, snips...* >What I'm getting at is that wouldn't Talamir have been advising the QUEEN not >the KING? Did I happen to find a typo or is that supposed to be like that? OK, the deal is, that Talamir was embarassed/shy about giving such blunt advice to a young girl (which Selenay *was* in the older man's eyes). And when the subject of Selenay's first marriage came up, it sounds to me like he was so "inhibited" (can't think of a better word, sorry), that he flew down the nearest hidey-hole and gave as little advice as he could get away with. OK, the ObMisty out of the way, I need to ask if there's anyone on the list down at Baylor University (USA), or around Waco, Texas, USA? I just got accepted to grad school down there (full ride, thank you very much :) and will be moving down in August. Soooo, anybody down there? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?....:) Talk to y'all later-- Zhai'helleva-- Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Good Lord for alliance! There goes the world but I, and I am sunburnt. -Wm. Shakespeare, _Much Ado About Nothing_ (Beatrice) "They're in love," Garion said, as if that explained everything. ..."As soon as somebody falls in love, all the wits seem to dribble out of the bottom of his head.... It's almost as if it were some kind of disease." -David Eddings, _Castle of Wizardry_ ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 12:14:51 -0500 From: Marissa K Lingen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own Message-ID: <199604101714.MAA08508-+AT+-jimbob.gac.edu> Uh, I don't know if anyone has answered this, but I think that Talia was told that Talamir had related much better to the previous King than he had to Selenay. The way I read that passage was that he had the same sort of relationship with the previous King Wotsisface that Talia had with Selenay, but that he wasn't really *extremely* well suited to Selenay. Or something. --Morticia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 12:48:00 EST From: "AMY E. BAUER" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Falconer? Message-ID: <675B4BD079E-+AT+-zebu.cvm.msu.edu> I just want to thank everyone who was exploring the topic for me. I really like it when authors play a role in a cause they believe in. Plus, I have a soft spot for raptors (too many days in the Wildlife Ward). From what I've heard, it sounds like Misty is primarily a rehabilitator, which you actually do need a license for as far as I know. Shadowspun, it's too bad that the prof you mentioned stopped his work. I would have been really nice info for people who care about these animals. Enough of the soap box! Ob Misty: Someone asked earlier about the Shin'a'in Godess and the Sunlord. I think that she probably was his consort at one point in time (maybe still is, just begin subtle?) amy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 13:09:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Sandra K Haas To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Books, books, books Message-ID: Just wanted to throw in (up?) my words of wizdom about all the book discussions: Can't remember when I first started reading, but I also can't remember NOT reading. Cut my teeth, and *STILL* Love: Narnia, Laura Ingalls Wilder and Tolkein. Love TLoR & the Hobbit, but try as I might, I cannot make sense of the Silmarilian :{ Was thinking of trying out the Lost Tales that I think his son Christopher put together--anybody know anything about those? I read pretty fast, but no where near as fast as some of you!! and lucky me, my husband (among other wonderful things) does woodworking.:} yes, that means as many bookshelves as our house can handle. I ALso re-read books. I read too fast to pick up some of the more subtle things, besides, like they are to most of you out there in misty-land, they become good friends. Also (promise this is the last)-I really appreciate everybody who suggests books. Have found some great stuff that way-just finished book 2 of the Adept books by Katherine Kurtz. (which I LOVED!! it probably helped that I am a Masonic baby) BUT!! I did run into one the other day that I did Not like-Swordpoint by somebody or another. Couldn't give particulars as to why I didn't like it, just didn't. Well, time to get back to looking busy!! ps-(said in whisper) spring MIGHT be on its way (don't want to jinx it or anything :}) Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 12:57:01 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: GAYS Message-ID: <10APR96.13986371.0043.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> My response when someone comes out of the closet to me is usually, "Cool. Thank you for telling me." Of course, my second response is to invite them to a Prism meeting (the campus les/bi/gay group -- you get yourself into these things when you come out to a steering committee member ) Honestly, most of the time, people don't expect anything too coherent from the people they tell. Bear in mind, it was a shock for your friend at first too, and he's had a lot of time to get used to it by now. Assuming he's a pretty fair person, he'll understand that it was a shock for you, and you had no time to think it over before having to respond. Most people babble. It's reasonable, really. The best thing in general you can do, IMO, is to make it clear to him in the future that this is not something that changes things -- that it's just another part of him. Don't be afraid to joke about it; that makes it seem like being gay is comparable to having a terminal illness. Talk about it like you would anything else that affects his life on a regular basis. Coolest thing that ever happened to me. A straight girlfriend insisted I go shopping with her for a cocktail dress so I could tell her how it *really* looked. (ME: I like it. HER: Yeah, but really? ME: Really. It's cute. HER: No. Is it sexy? ME: I -- I think so.... HER: Would you go out with me in this dress? ME: This is hypothetical, right? HER: Heather!) Anyway, the more normal you make it seem, the more quickly he'll get over being nervous around you. Also, the less likely it will be that he'll gravitate away from you in favor of other friends who are also gay and do feel comfortable talking with him about it. HTH Ladies' Aid & Armor Society ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 14:50:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Sandra K Haas To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mailing Message-ID: > ObMisty: And they very rarely get the wrong person when they > Mindspeak... > > > ~~~~~~~~~~Lady 'Reesa~~~~~~~~~~mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com~~~~~~~~~~~) Wouldn't that be hysterical?? There you are, minding your own business when somebody starts yacking in your head about what so-in-so did to whatstheirname? Uh, hello?? wrong number! OR! You are feeling guilty and want advise from your Companion, but you are thinking about the other person so much that you start true confession to them instead of your Companion!! bad, very bad!! They must have dedicated lines :-} Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 11:55:57 -0700 (PDT) From: McCaffrey's White Dragon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tarma in Winds series Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Apr 1996, Jake / Rynath in Green wrote: > My friend Isabelle brought up an interesting point in the Winds series: did > anyone else notice this? > > Her statement: > "Hey, I've just realized that Tarma appears in Winds of Change (well, it sure > seems to be her.) She's one of the swordsworn towards the end (I assume it's her > because she calls Elspeth "student of my student". You learn something new every > day!" > > Looking back I realized I completely glossed over this. But now that I see it, > it makes sense.. > > Comments? > I saw this remark the first time through and, after a few minutes of deliberation, came to the same conclusion. It did bug me a little, Tarma coincidentally showing up there and all, but I finally realized the following: being sword-sworn does have travel benefits (they can walk the moon-paths, can't they?); as far as I know, nothing was written about Tarma and/or Kethry in the intervening time; Need's precence sort of fits in a sort of heritage thing, and finally; Misty, like most authors I know of, follows the romantic (as a literary term) tradition of placing emphasis on individuals and their importance, thus making Tarma, a previously developed and emphasized individual, perfect to use as a supporting character, there by giving a sense of increased purpose or connectivity to the scene. Feel free to dispute me, but be warned. I can now buy coconuts at wholesale!!!!!****%%%~~ <-----look 5! 4* 3% 2~ & A Partridge In A Pear Tree) /\\,/\\, LEMUR!-==UDIC==-!RUMEL /| || || cCaffrey's White Dragon Still talking to that White Coconut! || || || | ||=|= || |Thus the theory states that, not only does Gyrfalcon have rocks ~|| || || |in his head, but evil ones at that!!!!!****%%%~~<---look 5! |, \\,\\,|4* 3% 2~ & A Partridge In A Pear Tree) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 15:11:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lyrics Message-ID: <01I3DPVCPSVM91WEI3-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu > >How many people had to laugh themselves silly when they realized that Countess >Reine's sister was the one from It was a Dark and Stormy Night? Good song, >btw. Haven't heard it, yet, but reading it is funny. Roald was so obviously >reluctant to find out the truth of the sister's death. I did end up feeling >sorry for Leslac, kind of. I felt more sorry for Reine, actually. She has to >put up with him for the rest of her life. Unless, of course, the song has >another set of verese... There's actually a song on Oathbreakers about the marriage. I can't for the life of me remember what it's called though. Something like "Leslac's Last Lament" or something? (It's been awhile since I listened to the full album. Usually I just listen to my recorded favorites from Oathbound and Oathbreakers. That way I can avoid That Song and any Jadrek song except "Oathbreakers".) It has a line that goes something like, "...though she cannot bear to hear my lute." That's a pretty blatant allusion to what a certain someone tried to eat. :) Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ Bye bye boys. Have fun storming the castle! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 15:15:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia's shielding Message-ID: <01I3DQ4L0U5K91WEI3-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com > >On page 195 in AOTQ Elcarth teaches Talia how to shield. If someone as >competent as Elcarth taught her to shield (whether her gifts were under >control or not) then wouldn't her shields have stayed even when her gift went >wacko in Arrows Flight? Did Elcarth actually teach her wrong? that thought> My only guess is that he only gave her a quick lesson to hold until she took her Gift class. Then, when she took the class, Ylsa assumed that Elcarth taught her fully, and he thought that she had done the same. That would only work if the class was taught sheilding individually, not in a lecture. >Geez, you've guys have gotten me questioning a lot of >things since I joined this list. This is not all together a bad thing by the >way. It's fun, really. Comments? Yes, it's a Good Thing (tm). Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ Bye bye boys. Have fun storming the castle! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 15:17:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Skif's gifts Message-ID: <01I3DQ90XV8U91WEI3-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com > >I have a question. What are Skif's gifts? Did anybody come across anything >that hinted (if not said outright) what they were? I am rereading Arrows Of >The Queen so I have LOTS of questions. (4 actually) They should come after >this email. Well, we know that he has _very_ rudimentary Mindspeech. Enough to talk to Cymry anyway. He also mentions at some point that Kris was his FarSight teacher. Mat accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ Bye bye boys. Have fun storming the castle! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 15:22:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own Message-ID: <01I3DQCJOS9W91WEI3-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com > >On page 194 of AOTQ when Keren, Teren, and Talia were talking about Talamir >Keren said, "Grandfather used to claim he never knew what he was going to say >to the King beforehand, yet it was always exactly the right thing."- end >quote. A little while back in the book it said that Rolan took 2 months to >choose Talia after Talamir but wouldn't Selenay have ruled before than also? >What I'm getting at is that wouldn't Talamir have been advising the QUEEN not >the KING? Did I happen to find a typo or is that supposed to be like that? Talamir was originally King's Own to Selany's father. It's said that when (what's his name?) the King died, Talamir felt very uncomfortable advising a young girl (Selany) after advising a man his own age. It's not like every time a new Monarch is crowned, a new MO is Chosen. BTW - I don't remember if it was on the reused name list, but, Talamir/Talia are pretty darn similar. Mat Cat Person and Hunter of TMIW accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ Bye bye boys. Have fun storming the castle! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 15:39:16 -0400 (EDT) From: HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Book lovers Message-ID: <01I3DR12X32A8ZEFWV-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu> Hmm. Never thought about it that way. Which is weird, I can usually see things from the other side of the coin. I'll have to think on this a while. Thanks, Heather. Shadowspun ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 14:45:36 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Sexism Message-ID: <10APR96.15941080.0043.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> I just know I'm going to get taken to task for this, but I can't resist, since the subject of sexism in Misty's work came up. I think all the really interesting, multi-faceted characters (with a few exceptions) are male. The women are often just Strong Women (TM). Let's take a look at major female characters in the works of Mercedes Lackey (disclaimer: this is how *I* feel about these characters, I think with some validity. Nevertheless, it is to some degree a question of taste, so try not to feel too hurt if I infringe upon the honor of your favorite character.) I like Talia. Always have. She's strong, yes, but often exceedingly weak. She's scared, and maternal, and sensible, and stressed-out. She strikes me as very human. She seems the farthest of all the female characters from the Strong Woman archetype, and yet she remains very strong. My kind of character -- and my kind of lady. Among the Strong Women, I think Diana and Savil are the outstanding specimens of the species. Di is no more heroic than she has to be. She drinks too much when she's under stress, she has a problem with committment, and she has a great sense of humor. Savil, too, has a sense of humor, and she's sometimes awkward around people. As she gets older, she comes to rely more and more on Vanyel, which is nice, because so often Strong Women don't ask anyone for help. Elspeth...is an interesting situation. We had a long thread once about her, and a lot of people were fed up with her stubborness and what appeared to be her frighteningly independant spirit. But I think we are supposed to view her as strong. I think Misty intended her to be doing a good thing when she took control of her own destiny and told the Companions to screw off. It was supposed to make her strong and independant. I thought it made her spoiled. But there's more than one way to look at that whole incident, I admit. So let's call her kind of an unresolved issue unto herself. Now, the others. While I like Tarma and Kethry, it kind of irks me that they always have the right answer to every problem. Other people get into trouble; Tarma and Kethry come in and fix things. The short stories are especially terrible about this; T&K always know exactly what to do. There's never any angst, any indecision, any regret, any disagreement between the two of them as to how to handle something. They always know what's right, and they always do the Right Thing without a qualm. Kethry was raised by a brother with no morals at all. How did she immediately turn into a paragon of justice and virtue, dedicated to the White Winds "but that would be wrong" ethos? Things just seem to come easily for Tarma & Kethry, because they're Strong. Oh, there's physical danger aplenty, but no arguments, no mistakes, no problems that aren't the fault of some outside source. Kerowyn had a lot of problems, too, but they were always the due to some external situation. She was pretty much a Strong Warrior Woman. Actually, I find her a pretty sympathetic character now, mostly due to Meg Davis' song "Women of Steel," which is a sad (I think) song about how lonely it can be to be the one who's always Strong, afraid to show any sign of weakness or need. I now see Kerowyn as an essentially tragic figure through most of By the Sword, but I think that has more to do with Meg Davis' character insights than Mercedes Lackey's. Selenay and Solaris, good Lord. Upright, decent, honest, responsible, self-assured, dedicated, willpower coming out their ears. I laughed in SRising when they met and remarked on how similar they were. Of course. They're the same bloody character. They're Misty's Strong Female Ruler. Just, righteous, and scary when they wanna be. But of course, they are wonderfully understanding and kindly as well, when they choose. I liked Savil, who was so used to being In Charge that she felt out of her element and uncomfortable when called upon to be personable. That's just so much more interesting than the ability to be all things to all people. And then we have the raft of minor women who are all in all Strong, the typical Good Herald. Their morals are high, they say the right thing, they prove that Women Can Do Anything. Keren, Idra, Lissa, Dawnfire, the list goes on. Essentially boring, essentially predictable, but unarguably Strong. And we have Really Bad women, bad because all Misty villains are bad: Faye, Hulda. Why are they bad? Who knows. Cause they're the bad guy. Depth? Forget it. Hey, come on. They're bad. What more do you need to know? And we have the women who are to be disdained for not being Strong Enough. Kerowyn's mother, who couldn't cut it on the Plains. Van's mother, who was a flake. All the court women that we see giggling and fussing over Vanyel, or being scheming, vicious, catty backstabbers like Dirk's old girlfriend. We never see a good feminine courtier. In fact, in Misty's world, you can prove that you're a Good Woman by plain dressing and plain speech, showing your disdain for girl stuff like pretty dresses and "My Lady's Eyes." By, in effect, allying with the men inasmuch as possible, and doing what you can to offset this unfortunate condition of femaleness. Here's a feminist's confession for you. I liked Dierna. You remember her, Kerowyn's kidnapped sister-in-law, of Kerowyn's Ride fame? Dierna was set up to be the Bad Feminine Woman, the counterpoint to Kerowyn's Good Strong Woman. Dierna actually liked all that icky girl stuff, like weddings and cooking and so forth. What a sap. After she was rescued, Dierna went about finding the things that belonged to her. They were her wedding presents, she explained, and she wasn't going to leave them here for this scum to find. Kerowyn rolls her eyes and thinks something along the lines of, how typical, even now, she's thinking of her trousseau. I think that was the bravest thing in the world. Here's this young girl who, totally without experience or preparation, goes through a horrifying experience. When it's over, she wants to act. No matter how stupid or trivial it may seem, Dierna takes control of her life in the only way she possibly can right now: she refuses to let them have her things. She was unable to protect herself, totally helpless, but by God, she's able to save the dishes, and this time be damned if she's going to let them have their way. This is not a heroic woman, but she does what she can to calm herself down, stand up for herself, and make it clear that no one takes anything from Dierna if there's one little thing she can do about it. That's a kind of strength, too, and we see one glimmer of it in this fluttery, feminine woman, though Kerowyn can't recognize any kind of courage except her own. But most of the time, feminine women don't do anything but whine and preen and get people into trouble and get scoffed at by the Strong characters. Sexist? I think so. A woman can be competent, but only as long as she doesn't for one second act like a woman or identify herself withthe concerns of most women in her society. Sure, some women can fall under that Strong heading, but do all of them really have to? Is it necessary to imply that anyone who doesn't is just a loser? And the Earth books are chock full of plain old boring Strong Women. Beth? There's nothing *to* Beth. Kory is a marvelous character, and Eric is full of contradictions and hangups and quirks. Beth is just Strong. And Elisabeth, the black woman who adopts Kayla, is another one of those who's always right about everything. I just can't get interested in a character who's always going to be Strong and Correct. I don't know if Mercedes Lackey is just uncomfortable writing about women and unsure how to give them depth, or if she's so relentlessly trying to make a politically correct point about feminism that she feels as though one sign of weakness will make her characters no better than the sighing, fainting princesses of early Swords and Sorcery. But after years of women's studies classes, I've become convinced that the attitude that traditonally male attributes are desirable in both men and women while traditionally female attributes are always weak and undesirable is initsef sexist. And after many, many years of reading fantasy, I've become *very* convenced that characters who are always competent, wise, and ethical are dull, dull, dull. HTH Ladies' Aid & Armor Society ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 16:21:18 -0400 (EDT) From: HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Stef's duties was re: Companion-names Message-ID: <01I3DSERZ6UA8ZEFWV-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu> This may be really mean, but whoever edits those books certainly doesn't catch everything. She/He/It misses an awful lot of really blatant stuff. Such as Tarlia in one of the Arrows books, Tharma or Tahrma (i don't have the book with me) in one of the V&H books. Now, mind you, I'm an editor at heart and I miss stuff when I'm editing, but some of it seems just a little obvious even to me. My little rant is over, although I must say that every once in a while, I'm temopted to go over the books, edit them and send them back to DAW so they can fix it or something in the next reprint. *sigh* Sorry. Shadowspun ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 16:23:38 -0400 (EDT) From: HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talamir- Previous Queen's Own Message-ID: <01I3DSKI6VLK8ZEFWV-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu> For that, Talamir talking about advising the King, it's actually easy to explain away. He was not comfortable with advising a young, headstrong girl, so would he be comfortable talking about it with his grandkids, or more comfortable talking about when he was comfortable advising. Does this make sense? Shadowspun ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 16:26:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Judy Hart To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: S&S Message-ID: <199604102026.QAA20234-+AT+-service1.cc.uky.edu> At 03:34 PM 3/28/96 GMT, you wrote: >I'd love to see others also scouring stores. I would like to get >a feel for if people are interested in this "service" and, more >importantly, would you be willing to pay the cost? I can't afford >to give them away, unfortunately, though I would if I could. > >StarWolf I'm also willing to do this. There is one absolutely fantastic bookstore and another almost as good near me (unfortunately no S&S III yet). Same terms, cost + shipping. Since I've been lurking here for awhile, I'd like to introduce myself: I'm 25, work for the University of Kentucky, and have been reading Misty for about 5 years. I'm also a big fan of Anne McCaffrey, David Eddings, Katherine Kurtz, and just about anything to do with horses or unicorns - in fact, it was the picture of Van & Yfandes on the cover of MPawn (I think) that got me started on Misty. Thanks to all who have recommended books/authors! I needed some new ones. Zhai'helleva, Judy jhart-+AT+-pop.uky.edu P.S. Does anyone know if the usename 'Hartsong' is taken? ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 469 *********************************