MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 477 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Queen;s Own(rather off topic) by ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg 2) Re: Books(was Re: Delurk) by ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg 3) Re: Top Ten New Plot Twists in Next Misty Novel by ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg 4) re: age by JWSCHM00-+AT+-UKCC.uky.edu 5) Re: Sexism by "Seanna" 6) Leaving... by Soljan-+AT+-aol.com 7) Misty & Internet, wasRe: X-files (off topic) by Adrienne York 8) I am here. (fwd) by "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" 9) Re: Men in power (fwd) by "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" 10) Re: Stef's duties was re: Companion-names (fwd) by "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" 11) Re: Sexism (fwd) by "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" 12) Re: Book lovers (fwd) by "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" 13) re: age by Lady Kayla 14) re: Delurk by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 15) Re: Borderlands books by Mat Timmerman 16) Re: Whom should I join? by Mark Mains 17) Re: Delurk by Mark Mains 18) Valdemaran music (was Re: I am here. (fwd)) by Marissa K Lingen 19) Re: Delurk by Mat Timmerman ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 19:33:39 +0800 From: ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Queen;s Own(rather off topic) Message-ID: <199604151133.TAA22645-+AT+-sunflower.singnet.com.sg> (much snippage.) >Any way, welcome to the list, Jeannette and i hope this helps! > >Lady Susanna (sig. snipped) Thanx for replying, and could I have the add. please? I seem to have misplaced it, and my books are currently with all my Misty hooked friends. Thanx! Zhai'helleva, Jeanette. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 19:39:18 +0800 From: ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Books(was Re: Delurk) Message-ID: <199604151139.TAA19121-+AT+-sunflower.singnet.com.sg> (snip) >About the books you missed, if you're just talking about Velgarth books, >you left out The Oathbound, Oathbreakers, and By the Sword, which I >personally group as a trilogy. (snip) I just want to correct myself. I've read BTS, and the Bardic Voices books up to the Eagle and the Nightingale. I've gotten the LHM trilogy, and The Oathbound, and Oathbreakers, but haven't read them yet! Yes, I'm slow. I do like the later books, but thanx for your recommendations anyway. Zhai'helleva, Jeanette. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 19:41:00 +0800 From: ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Top Ten New Plot Twists in Next Misty Novel Message-ID: <199604151141.TAA23187-+AT+-sunflower.singnet.com.sg> >> 3. Misty names characters after prominent members on the mailing list. >Well, this one has my vote! >-Free Bard Oriole > known on IRC as Vrondi > a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. (snip) It has mine too! BTW, are there any objections if I start calling myself Moonsong? Like, is it taken? Zhai'helleva, Jeanette. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 07:57:32 EDT From: JWSCHM00-+AT+-UKCC.uky.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: age Message-ID: <960415.080617.EDT.JWSCHM00-+AT+-ukcc.uky.edu> As another ancient one, I remember starting on _Wrinkle in Time_ by L'Engle. Esmerelda's right though, there wasn't much out there that was fantasy. I actually started out on Science Fiction (an anthology given to me in 8th grade), if you don't count fairy tales as fantasy. I first read McCaffery as the short story in the Nebula Award winner anthology ("Dragon Flight"). After that, there was no turning back. Another place for fantasy (that I almost forgot) was comic books (not "graphic novels" 8-)). My mother thought they were a huge waste of money, so I read my friend's. This was where I first ran into the Sword and Sorcery genre when Fritz Leiber's Fahfrd and Grey Mouser were introduced to the comic book community through Wonder Woman. They had a tiny bit on the title page that said it was taken from a book, so we immediately went out to find the book. Wait a minute, the forgettery (as opposed to memory) kicks in. Edgar Rice Burroughs and Oz books are fantasy, aren't they?! Of course, Burroughs was considered "trash", but I read them all anyway. I've been trying to find copies lately for my son (a confirmed Misty addict) to read, but haven't been having much luck. He won't touch Oz because he considers them "baby-books." What a dilemma, a Children's Librarian who can't get her child interested in the literature. Enough rambling, Mistfox (39) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 15:38:32 EET DST From: "Seanna" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sexism Message-ID: <1C67D462639-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> A lot of people, including HTH, Kerry and Mel have written on this... and said basically everything I'd have said, so.. How on earth can we ever have a discussion if we agree on everything ('cept things like how Van's name is pronounced :)?? HTH basically said, I think, that Misty's "strong" women are rather card-boardish and fall into one stereotypical mold, while her "feminine" women are weak or airy-headed. Kerry and Mel, I think, disagreed on the second point. Kerry wrote: > [HTH:] > > > And we have Really Bad women, bad > > because all Misty villains are bad: Faye, Hulda. Why are they bad? Who > > knows. Cause they're the bad guy. Depth? Forget it. Hey, come on. > > They're bad. What more do you need to know? And we have the women who > > are to be disdained for not being Strong Enough. Kerowyn's mother, who > > couldn't cut it on the Plains. Van's mother, who was a flake. > > And, your point? She wasn't disdained.. And more, she grew and matured > into someone who was pretty darn nice. I'll second that: Treesa was actually really neat; but surely we agree that Misty seems to cast her in a pretty bad light up until MPawn. Kerowyn's mother is made to seem like a real wimp, just because she had the sense not to alternately freeze & fry her arse off in a drafty moth-eaten tent . (Please pardon my bad writing, my brains are a little dead. I've been, over the weekend, role-playing for a total of 20+ hours, dancing my feet off at a techno/trance gathering, and having soul-searching talks 'til 3 am.. "Food? Sleep? what're those for?" :) I don't think it's just our perceptions either, as Kerry suggested. I think we weren't defining "strong" as "someone who can swing a sword or zap a levin-bolt" but as "someone who can take control of their own life". And that's something the "feminine" women aren't doing; they're just drifting along with their mates or fathers. (As HTH pointed out, all the women who are interested in pretty feathers and embroidery and such ("feminine", by definition), seem to be almost by definition lesser beings... whereas Vanyel and Firesong can preen about all they want and still be taken seriously, and Darkwind is admired for his featherwork, and..) > > But most of the time, feminine women don't do anything but whine and > > preen and get people into trouble and get scoffed at by the Strong > > characters. Sexist? I think so. A woman can be competent, but only as > > long as she doesn't for one second act like a woman or identify herself > > with the concerns of most women in her society. Sure, some women > > can fall under that Strong heading, but do all of them really have > > to? Is it necessary to imply that anyone who doesn't is just a > > loser? (snip) [Kerry:] > Come to think of it, and this isn't meant to be offensive, I'm not sure > that your perceptions aren't sexist. Why is Lissa not identifying with the > concerns of her society? Aren't female groups of guards concerns? Why is > N---- (the young female engineer) not feminine, simply because she's > interested in a traditionally male field.. Why is Dawnfire not feminine > - because she's a Scout?? Didn't HTH phrase it "with the concerns of most women in her society"? And, though we might like Valdemar to be nice and equal- opportunity, it isn't. Do all the heroines have to be bloody freaks? Oh well. In case that didn't make any sense, I meant that yes, "feminine" women can be strong, and no, Misty isn't succeeding in portraying them. Unfortunately. -Seanna the confused ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 08:41:51 -0400 From: Soljan-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Leaving... Message-ID: <960415084150_191379678-+AT+-emout09.mail.aol.com> I'm going to be unsubscribing for a while. I'll be back eventually, but I'm going to be out of town and don't want to come back to all the mail. C-ya all then. Lady Silvermoon :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:20:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Misty & Internet, wasRe: X-files (off topic) Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Apr 1996, Tensen wrote: > > > > ObMisty: Wouldn't it be cool if Misty had regular Internet? > > How can we be sure she isn't?!? She seemed to be a furry muck fanatic > with the "realism" she portrayed of it in one story. > I do believe someone has gotten communication to the effect that computers have evolved to that point where Misty cannot distinguish between them and magic, and consequently, she doesn't use them for things like e-mail. (She's a writer, not a magician.) Or something. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ L'Enfant Terrible Wanna Warrior Protocol Officer The WitchQueen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "You haven't found god yet? Why in havens' name not? God is everywhere... Have you tried buying a rubber chicken? Sometimes they have two gods." -Moi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:29:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" To: Misty Lackey List Subject: I am here. (fwd) Message-ID: This, and a suite of following posts, were intended to be sent last week. Unfortunately, my university computer and the listproc apparently had a spat and I haven't been able to send for a couple of days. Anyway, here we go. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 23:26:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating To: Misty Lackey List Subject: I am here. Hello everone, I just wanted to let the several people on the list who had expressed some concern about whether I was unsubscribed or not know that I am here and still fully as opinionated as ever. =) Course, I am sure that my last several posts have made that fact clear. *hee-hee* Really, I was just swamped with stuff in both my professional and personal life early this week and things kinda got bogged down. BTW, Lady Rozanna, I owe you an apology. I think that I was unecessarily curt and (maybe) a little insulting in my response to your multi-threading claims. I can only say that it was the result of getting several really horrid pieces of bad news, one atop the other, just before I got to your post. The biggest one was that my best friend (my sort-of "wife") somehow became convinced that I thought she was stupid and incompetant. Needless to say, she was not gentle about dropping this on me as the reason she no longer wanted to be friends. That, plus some really icky research issues and too many tests to grade, ensured that I was not in a nice mood when I responded to your post and I sort of got carried away. It's just that I feel strongly about Gender Studies and that sort of thing. Anyway, in a long round about way, I am saying that I feel that you deserve an apology (particularly since you are apparently going through some stress yourself). Hope that everything works out for you. Anyway, take care everyone. ObMisty: This came up on the #valdemar channel the other day. Have you noticed that the music in Velgarth seems to be fairly basic? I mean, it is all bardic pseudo-folk stuff. Not that there is anything wrong with that kind of music, by why is there no orchestral or chorale music? I like Wagner and Saint-Saens and Ravel. I want there to be opere, concerti, symphonies, zarzuelas, etc. I want complex, polyphonous music! Single performers with narrative lyrics are nice, but there is still a need for pure music! Music with no other purpose but to exist and be enjoyed. Also, where are the love songs? the songs of human experience (as opposed to the songs of individual experience)? If I am going to listen to bardic music, I want it to be Melissa Etheridge and Sarah MacLachlan! Can you just imagine? Stefen singing "I wanna Come Over" to Van? Or Dirk singing "Come To My Window" to Talia? For that matter, Sarah's song "Ice" would be perfect for the young Van in MPawn. Just to give y'all an idea, here are some excerpts: Stefen to Van: How can you turn, denying the fire? Lover I burn, let me in. I know you're confused, I know that you're shaken. You think we'll be lost, once we begin. I know you're weak, I know that you want me. Lover, don't speak, let me in. I want to come over... ("I Want to Come Over" by Melissa Etheridge off the LP _Your Little Secret_) Dirk to Talia: I would dial the numbers (OK, I admit this is anachronistic) just to listen to your breath. I would stand inside my Hell and hold the hand of Death, You don't know how far I'd go To ease this precious ache. You don't know how much I'd give, or how much I can take, Just to reach you. ("Come to My Window" by Melissa Etheridge off the LP _Yes I am_) Young Vanyel: The Ice is thin, come on dive in, underneath my lucid skin, the cold is lost, forgotten. Hours pass, days pass, time stands still, light gets dark and darkness fills my secret hearth, forbidden. ("Ice" by Sarah McLachlan off the LP _Fumbling Towards Ecstasy_) Oh, I am getting shivers just thinking on it. So, does anyone agree with me that there is room for this kind of music in Velgarth? May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:30:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Men in power (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 13:09:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Men in power On Wed, 10 Apr 1996 EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org wrote: > joining the chorus here but... remember Hulda? Powerful, vindictive, > willing to take a long term path to absolute control, and definitely > female? I'd say she's evil. She is also fairly unique in the Velgarth books. I am racking my brain and can't come up with a single example of another villainess. In fact, the only other villainess that I can think of in Misty's books are the priestesses of Tezcatlipoca (in Burning Water) and the witch (in Jinx High). In the first case, it is made fairly clear that the priestess are not in control of themselves, they are under the thrall of their god. And the witch of Jenks is a rather paltry villainess. On the other hand, Misty does have a rather nice array of very powerful villains (Ma'ar et al., Ancar, Charliss, Father Leren?, Tashir's uncle, Idra's brother, Thallkarsh, etc.) She also has no problem with making her male characters who are not villains into cruel, brutal or uncaring personages (Withen and what's-his-name, the armsmaster in the early Vanyel stuff; Talia's family, etc.) Now I am not saying that there aren't men in the world who are at least that bad, but I do seem to notice that there is a definite trend here. When villifying is done, men seem to be the object. If anyone can come up with a refutation of this, I would appreciate it. I am starting to get a little depressed now. I love Misty, and I hate to think that she has feet of clay. But I suppose it is to be expected. She is only human, like the rest of us. *le sigh* May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:31:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Stef's duties was re: Companion-names (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 17:33:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Stef's duties was re: Companion-names (fwd) On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Kerry Mealing wrote: > [much snippage of things I do am not commenting upon] > Yes.. The Gala thing is not nice.. The optimist in me half-hopes that it > was just a case of Stef/'Lendel keeping Gala out of sight to avoid confusion > and long explanations - Elspeth & Co *know* that Stef wasn't a Herald.. > > Remember, Stef/'Lendel spent much more time with Van/Yfandes than he did > with Gala. Personally, I don't believe this one - a companion bond's not > the type of thing to forget, even if the companion does break it to save > your life when she's about to suicide. Ummm. I thought that Gala repudiated Tylendel because his madness had pushed him over the edge into evil. He was evil at the point she repudiated him. I sort of think that the point of repudiation is that it completely severs the bond between Companion and ex-herald. So Gala is no longer Tylendel's companion. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:32:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Sexism (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 19:29:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sexism On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Heather Watson wrote: > Well, you've all been very gentle with me after my inflammatory post. I > had to go home and ponder deeply. Oh, pondering! Kewl. And I didn't think the post was very inflammatory. Then again, I am one of the ones who has been pondering this whole issue of sexism for some time now. I thought you brought up some very good issues. > And, wow, that word "feminine," that's hard to deal with. When I say > that Misty's women aren't feminine, it makes it sound like I think > they're not feminine! I think they're "feminine" if you define that > in a certain way, as in not being "manlike." (Oh, this is so hard to > explain.) I think they are rewarded and praised for doing the things > that in *our* society are considered male occupations, and for having > the attitudes that in *our* society are considered typical or desirable > in men. I think that one approach to this problem might be to look at the dichotomy between gender identity (both external and internal), and gender role. Gender identity refers to which gender a person is percieved as belonging to. A person's internal gender identity is their own perception of where they belong on a gender continuum. The external identity is the perception of others of where they belong on the same continuum. This is related to the theories in the Social Interactionist framework of identity as an interaction of the particularized and generalized other. Gender role, on the other hand, refers to the tasks and functions that are assigned to a particular gender in a socially constructed system. Gender role is the measure against which we test gender identity. In this sense, gender identity becomes a function of how likely are you to violated the socially constructed role for a particular gender. Given these different terms, lets look at a character like Dierna. Dierna clearly saw herself as feminine (her internal gender identity) and she was clearly perceived as feminine by those around her (her external gender identity). Given the context of her gender identity, we would predict that she would be unlikely to violate the boundaries set by gender roles in her society. In fact, this turns out to be the case. Even in extremis, and after Kero rescues her, she maintains behavior consonant with her gender identity and does not violate her role of "homemaker/chatelaine/property-transfer-medium." She is concerned with the wedding gifts more than with herself, as much because that is an appropiate part of her gender role as anything else. Now, a more problematic personnage would be Kerowynn. Her internal gender role is unclear. In some ways, she clearly sees herself as feminine, but in others she does not. This brings us to an interesting point. Part of the underlying assumption in most of these discussions has been that "feminine" and "masculine" are terms on the same continuum and that to be "non-feminine" is to necessarily be "masculine." A more useful approach might be to assume that "feminine" and "masculine" are labels of seperate asects of gender. In this view, movement on the continuum would be from "strongly identify with gender" to "do not identify with gender." Kero (and Tarma) seems to me to be an example of a personnage that does not strongly identify with feminine gender nor with masculine gender. That is, she is not particularly reluctant to violate either masculine or feminine gender roles, rather she is actually likely to violate them. Compare Kero to Kethry who seems to strongly identify with both gender roles. Keth is very strongly feminine and it is clear that this is both her internal and external gender role. She is also, however, strongly masculine. One assumption that we could make in this framework is that a strong-fem/strong-masc identity would be more likely to experience cognitive dissonance in their relationship to gendered tasks and would be more likely to employ readjustment or reduction strategies to reduce this dissonance, while a person with weak-fem/weak-masc would experience little cognitive dissonance and would not employ many readjustment strategies. I think that an argument can be made that Keth does employ such strategies. Although she does many "masculine" tasks, she seems to take pains to do them in a way that makes them more feminine. For example, she does go questing, but she maintains a comfortable homey tent and takes care to look pretty and feminine. She is a mercenary, but she constructs a story where that is merely a means to an end, with the final goal being to become the mother of a restored Clan Tal'esedrin (that the story is true doesn't diminish its ability to serve as a CD reduction strategy). Kero, on the other hand, does not use very many readjustment or reduction strategies. A final type that should be considered is the strong-masc/weak-fem personnage. This would be a contrast to Dierna, who we can now describe as having a strong-fem/weak-masc identity. To be honest, I am not able to think of any such character (at least a female one). The basic expection of such a character would be very reluctant to violate the masculine gender role, but likely to violate the feminine role. This would match what is traditionally though of as a "masculine" person. If anyone can think of such a character (female), I would welcome hearing of it. Anyways, those are some of my thoughts. (Gee, can you tell that I am a Gender Studies scholar and teacher?) Also, I thought I would add to the list of books with good strong-fem characters (and supply some details to a few of the already mentioned.): > [Nora was the war widow; I can't remember the name of the starlet > either.], from Bride of the Rat God. Set in 1920s > Hollywood, one of the two main characters is a young war widow, a > Beauty, from the book of the same name. Been a while since I read this, > but I don't recall her having any special "male" skills or training. > She was, however, interesting enough to keep me reading the book. I would argue, given my analysis above, that Beauty was weak-fem/weak-masc. Some other character/books: The main character in "A Bright and Shining Tiger." I have already mentioned this book on this list before, so I won't give a synopsis here. "Soulstring" by Midori Snyder. It has been ages since I read this, but the main character is a strong-fem character who ends up fighting against all sorts of curses and hostile magic for the man to whom she is betrothed (in an arranged marriage). This is a very compelling story of what might be done by a young woman who accepted the social convention that her father would pick her husband and that that was the way things were supposed to go. "Caught in Crystal" by Patricia Wrede. Also "Shadow Magic(?)," and "Sorcery and Cecilia" by the same author (the last of these with Caroline Stevermer). In all of these cases, the main characters are strong-fem characters. In "Caught," the main character is a ex-fighter, now-mother who is called out of retirement to help fix a prob she accidentally helped cause on her last mission. She is very reluctant to violate her feminine role, although she is also reluctant to violate masculine role (making her strong-fem/strong-masc). In "Shadow," the main female character is definitely strong-fem/weak-masc. She is the daughter of a nobleman who gets caught up in an ancient war of power. The last novel has two female main characters (both strong-fem/weak-masc) and is dead brilliant. Two cousins in a magical Regency England setting become embroiled in a series of intrigues involving a dashing count, a robin's-egg-blue teapot, an enchanted tree, and some family secrets. Go out and get this book! And of course, the "ne plus autre" of strong-fem books: "A Song for Arbonne" by Guy Gavriel Kay. In my opinion, Misty's works notwithstanding, this is the best book ever written. And the female characters are brilliantly done. Signe, the ruler of Arbonne; Alix, her very tragic daughter; Arianne, Queen of the Court of Love; and Linnet (?) the troubador are all very fem and all very compelling. And they do some pretty heroic things! Arianne's explanation of her arrangement with her husband (who is shaych, BTW) concerning lovers is extremely moving and persuasive. Oh, BTW, Kay should prob be added to the list of author's who portray shaych characters as normal people (he has some good ones, some bad ones). There are a host of others that I will have to think of later. I will write more when I get home and have my library to peruse. OH! The Tsuranuanni series by Raymond Feist and Janny Wurts (also, "Sorceror's Legacy" by Janny Wurts). May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:33:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating" To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Book lovers (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 20:34:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Book lovers On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, M. Wang wrote: Shadowspun wrote: > > > Has anyone ever lent a book to a friend who does that? I'm always tempted to > > > ask them to buy me a new book if they kill the binding. Well, my problem was that the worst culprit for this sort of thing, in my life, was my father. What really made it rough was that I was living in his house with all my books, so I didn't generally have the option of not offering a book to him. If he saw an interesting book, he would just pick it up and start reading it and would destroy the spine. My only option was to keep all of my books in my room, which was off-limits (neither of my parents would enter without my express permission). > The trick, I've found, is to only lend my babies to those friends > who are: > > a) as anal as I am about spines, covers, dents, miniscule > chips in the beautiful foil lettering....er...scuse me--who will > therefore return every book in the exact same shape in which it left > my shelf Not possible for me. I have never found anyone that is as bad/fussy as I am. I have books that I have read many times and the spines and covers are as perfect as if they had never been touched by human hands (these are ones that I have managed to keep out of the hands of my father, of course *grin*). > b) saddled with over-active consciences (in which case they will > still destroy the book, but immediately run out to the local Bookstop > and buy you an even newer, shinier, foil-laden copy in order to ease > their feelings of guilt and self-loathing) Gee, in my case, they run out to ease their feelings of extreme emotional and physical pain as I call them "book-murderers" and beat on them with a Louisville Slugger! Well, not really with a baseball bat. =) However, I never leave it up to my borrowers to think of buying me a new copy if they have lost or damaged my copy. I usually tell them that I expect them to do so, and not to bother even thinking about borrowing from me again until such time as they have done so. Anyway, that is my strategy. Such as it is. And it ain't much, really! May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 21:43:17 +0800 From: Lady Kayla To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: age Message-ID: <199604151343.VAA06645-+AT+-janice.vianet.net.au> At 11:35 15/04/96 +0100, you wrote: > >But you're babies - good grief I read my first McCaffrey over 16 years ago, >and I considered myself "grown up" even then. I've been reading Lacky, >McCaffrey, McKilip, McKinley etc etc etc as they published. I have spent >_years_ of my life waiting for the next bit to appear, you littles don't >know how lucky you are - you can just go and get Arrows/Winds/Vows and Honour >as complete job lots - I don't think I've bought any of them that way - just >the long drawn out, when-are-the-soddin'-publishers-going-to-bring-out-the- >paperback way. I _know_ that feeling, Lord and Lady, do I ever know that feeling!!!!! >In fact, thinking back, there was precious little fantasy around 20 years ago >- any other geriatrics out there with a few brain cells left who can help me >out here? McCaffrey was my first (Dragonflight, Restoree, Ship who Sang) - >before that I read the "softer" Sci-Fi - but straight fantasy (excluding >messrs. Tolkien and Lewis) - I don't remember any, it's either my age, or they >weren't memorable! I started on fantasy via the Hobbit et al at about age 7 (*mmmppphhh* years ago) and haven't stopped since. I too spent my early years reading more SF than F but gradually the proportions altered :) I've been hooked on reading for over 25 years now and there is no end in sight! Lady Kayla ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 16:19:19 +0200 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Delurk Message-ID: <9604151419.AA12422-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> Cecilia wrote: > One question: Why are there so many non-Misty things on the list? Eg. other > authors, gays etc. They clog up my mailbox (I once received 175 mail and it > took me 15 min to load them. Well, my computer is slow.) and the phone line. > I only read the Misty ones anyway. weeeeellllll, IMHO, we like to discuss things around, related, similar, connected, eerrmm running out of words here, tangential to/with/on ML's work. Other authors, because much as we would all love to read only ML, there comes a time when they're all too fresh for another re-read, and you want, horror of horrors, another author to read. Personal recommendations can save money being wasted on nonsense (Ellen Kushner, Swordpoint - thanks to whoever has been waxing lyrical lately - found it, read it, enjoyed it), and there are authors out there whose work complements ML's, or whose work is of the same genre. When I read something good, I want to share it, spread the word, I want someone else to say it was brilliant. Gays - well, you must have noticed our ML is unusual in not only having gay characters, but gay principal characters. This attracts people for whom gay issues are important - (gays are sadly ignored in Sci-fi and fantasy), so we talk about it. We talk about Gods/religions/love/life - on the whole we enjoy a non-verbal chin-wag sparked (mostly) by ML's books. Sometimes, things do get a touch off the beaten track, then either someone asks politely for the volume to be reduced/the subject to be dragged back to something ML related, or our revered list-mistress hauls us back into line. Mostly I just read, ruminate and delete, sometimes I'm in a chatty mood or work is not too pressing, so I'll reply, or try to kick off my own thread, and if work is too awful, the lot gets deleted without being read - like last week. Just ride with it - there's usually a Lackey tie in somewhere - and you should see the list of books-to-be-read I carry around in my bag theses days - all from recommendations here - there's a lot of dross out there masquerading as good-books - so I say, keep 'em coming please! tot ziens, Esmeralda Evensbane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 10:20:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Borderlands books Message-ID: <01I3KE0JL5YA91WOYZ-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com >> >>NO shapeshifters? What about that one from the song "Snow Beast" from _The >>Oathbound_? She was a shapeshifter if any. Guise of a woman, infiltrates into >>a camp, and then shifts back into her natural beast form to slaughter half the >>people there. Although, technically, she would be a beastwere instead of a >>werebeast, since her original form was a beast and she shifted into a human. >> >>Just had to throw that in, "Snow Beast" is one of my favorite songs since it >>ends sooooo evilly and it has that bouncy, happy tune! > >In Sword & Sorceress VII (ooh, I have it right here so I can quote it), >Misty's story has Tarma & Kethry fighting this one woman who was ejected >from a magic school (White Winds?) who turns into a bear (<- that's a >spoiler - if you're going to read the story, try not to have read that) and >Kethry makes it quite clear that mages can shapechange, but don't because >you totally turn into the animal - instincts, mental capacity, etc. There >don't seem to be any werewolves/creatures that change naturally - 'cept >maybe that snowbeast (yea! The snow beast gets two songs! Maybe its the same >one? Too bad it dies during the second one :( I think it is the same one. Remember how, in the beginning of Oathbreakers, Tarma tells Kethry that the Snow Demon was a story used to frighten children. Then she said that it actuall existed. Something like, "I slaughtered half a clan before it was done. It was taken out by one of my teachers. It was a mutual kill. Damned painful he said." (that's all stricktly from memory too.) So, "Snow Beast" would be the kids story, and "Hindsight" would be the truth. Mat Cat Person and Hunter of TMIW accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ "There is no one, true way." -- Mercedes Lackey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 10:32:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mains To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Whom should I join? Message-ID: <199604151432.KAA21360-+AT+-service1.cc.uky.edu> On April 15, 1996: >> I would like to join the Cat People or the Ladies in Green. How do I join? >> >> Saranhct-+AT+-aol.com What are the Cat People and the Ladies in Green? **************************************************************************** Mark A. Mains email: mamain01-+AT+-pop.uky.edu University of Kentucky PURATINISM: The fear that someone, somewhere is having fun. **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 10:40:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mains To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Delurk Message-ID: <199604151440.KAA23469-+AT+-service1.cc.uky.edu> These people posted over the last couple of days. >I'm Jeanette from Singapore, and I'm 14. >I'm 15 myself. (Lady Becky) >I'm 15, too, soon to be 16! *****LADY JAGUAR***** > >I feel OLD! I'm 24 and been reading Misty for at least five years! > >NiteBird > Nitebird, I was beginning to think that I was the only one on here over the age of 20!!!!! Oh well, in 2-3 more years when we are in a senior citizens home at least we will have Misty's books to read. **************************************************************************** Mark A. Mains email: mamain01-+AT+-pop.uky.edu University of Kentucky PURATINISM: The fear that someone, somewhere is having fun. **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:49:07 -0500 From: Marissa K Lingen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Valdemaran music (was Re: I am here. (fwd)) Message-ID: <199604151449.JAA04826-+AT+-perdita.gac.edu> I totally agree with Cennydd on this one. I don't think there's a good reason for there *not* to be complex polyphonic music on Valdemar--I mean, they have a Bardic school in Havens, so it's not like the Bards are so scattered that they couldn't constitute an orchestra. I guess I sort of keep expecting that there is one and we just haven't heard about it yet. You'd think there would be some sort of permanent dance and/or theatre company as well. Capital cities seem to attract such things. I'd like to see the Bards get up a huge group and just *go* with it! --Morticia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 10:52:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Delurk Message-ID: <01I3KFEI6LW891WOYZ-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Cecilia > >Hi, everyone! I've been reading this list but never replied before because >there were many non-Misty things that I didn't understand. Anyway, this is >my official delurking notice. I enjoy reading David Eddings, Anne McCaffrey >and (of course), Mercedes Lackey. I've read the Heralds of Valdemar, The >Mage Winds and the first 2 books of the Mage Wars. I thought they were all >quite good except for the White Gryphon which was a disappointment after the >Black Gryphon. Don't hold your breath hoping Silver Gryphon is any better, 'cause its not. :( But make sure you read The Last Herald-Mage!!!!!<---5 > >One question: Why are there so many non-Misty things on the list? Eg. other >authors, gays etc. They clog up my mailbox (I once received 175 mail and it >took me 15 min to load them. Well, my computer is slow.) and the phone line. >I only read the Misty ones anyway. > Often, the off-topic discussions spring from on-topic ones. Other times, it's just that we feel comfortable talking with people with similar interests (especially when we don't know anyone else who does). Besides, we sometimes run out of Misty stuff to talk about (blasphemy! :) ). >Hope to make friends with all of you on the list. Of course. We're all friends around here. Other than the occasion coconut fight or odd tossed levinbolt, that is ;) Mat Cat Person and Hunter of TMIW accmjt-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ "There is no one, true way." -- Mercedes Lackey ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 477 *********************************