MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 480 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Sexism (fwd) by Nitebird 2) by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 3) Re: Book lovers (fwd) by deanca 4) Re: Borderlands Books by "deanca" 5) Re: I am here. (fwd) by "deanca" 6) Re: Men in power (fwd) by "deanca" 7) Re: X-files (off topic) by "deanca" 8) Re: Cecelia's Delurk by Jake / Rynath in Green <102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> 9) A strange request (Off topic) by mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa And Tina) 10) Delurk by James Augur 11) Re: I am here. (fwd) by ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg 12) Re: Eagle and Nightengale by "A.K. Wright" 13) Off-topic (Sorry), Serrated Edge by "Jill" 14) RE: Mercedes Lackey Booklist. by EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org 15) down again?? by Chelsea Amberle Fischer 16) Lark & Wren, was:Re: Thanks *and* Eagle and Nightingale by Birgit Hanel 17) Re: Top Ten New Plot Twists in Next Misty Novel by Birgit Hanel 18) Re: The Last Unicorn by Shadow-Lover 19) Re: ADMIN: let me repeat this, once more, with feeling. by Shadow-Lover 20) Re: Anthony by Shadow-Lover 21) re: age by Becky Anne Christensen 22) Re: Borderlands books by EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org 23) Re: Delurk by HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu 24) Re: Valdemaran music (was Re: I am here. (fwd)) by HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu 25) Re: Valdemaran music (was Re: I am here. (fwd)) by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 20:22:29 -0400 From: Nitebird To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sexism (fwd) Message-ID: <3172E845.17F4-+AT+-ns.gamewood.net> Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 19:29:02 -0400 (EDT) > From: Over the Insanity Horizon, and Accelerating > To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk > Subject: Re: Sexism > > On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Heather Watson wrote: > > > Well, you've all been very gentle with me after my inflammatory post. I > > had to go home and ponder deeply. > > Oh, pondering! Kewl. And I didn't think the post was very > inflammatory. Then again, I am one of the ones who has been pondering > this whole issue of sexism for some time now. I thought you brought up > some very good issues. > > > And, wow, that word "feminine," that's hard to deal with. When I say > > that Misty's women aren't feminine, it makes it sound like I think > > they're not feminine! I think they're "feminine" if you define that > > in a certain way, as in not being "manlike." (Oh, this is so hard to > > explain.) I think they are rewarded and praised for doing the things > > that in *our* society are considered male occupations, and for having > > the attitudes that in *our* society are considered typical or desirable > > in men. > > I think that one approach to this problem might be to look at the > dichotomy between gender identity (both external and internal), and > gender role. Gender identity refers to which gender a person is > percieved as belonging to. A person's internal gender identity is their > own perception of where they belong on a gender continuum. The external > identity is the perception of others of where they belong on the same > continuum. This is related to the theories in the Social Interactionist > framework of identity as an interaction of the particularized and > generalized other. Gender role, on the other hand, refers to the tasks > and functions that are assigned to a particular gender in a socially > constructed system. Gender role is the measure against which we test > gender identity. In this sense, gender identity becomes a function of > how likely are you to violated the socially constructed role for a > particular gender. > > Given these different terms, lets look at a character like Dierna. > Dierna clearly saw herself as feminine (her internal gender identity) and > she was clearly perceived as feminine by those around her (her external > gender identity). Given the context of her gender identity, we would > predict that she would be unlikely to violate the boundaries set by > gender roles in her society. In fact, this turns out to be the case. > Even in extremis, and after Kero rescues her, she maintains behavior > consonant with her gender identity and does not violate her role of > "homemaker/chatelaine/property-transfer-medium." She is concerned with > the wedding gifts more than with herself, as much because that is an > appropiate part of her gender role as anything else. > > Now, a more problematic personnage would be Kerowynn. Her internal > gender role is unclear. In some ways, she clearly sees herself as > feminine, but in others she does not. This brings us to an interesting > point. Part of the underlying assumption in most of these discussions > has been that "feminine" and "masculine" are terms on the same continuum > and that to be "non-feminine" is to necessarily be "masculine." A more > useful approach might be to assume that "feminine" and "masculine" are > labels of seperate asects of gender. In this view, movement on the > continuum would be from "strongly identify with gender" to "do not > identify with gender." Kero (and Tarma) seems to me to be an example of a > personnage that does not strongly identify with feminine gender nor with > masculine gender. That is, she is not particularly reluctant to violate > either masculine or feminine gender roles, rather she is actually likely > to violate them. > > Compare Kero to Kethry who seems to strongly identify with both gender > roles. Keth is very strongly feminine and it is clear that this is both > her internal and external gender role. She is also, however, strongly > masculine. One assumption that we could make in this framework is that a > strong-fem/strong-masc identity would be more likely to experience > cognitive dissonance in their relationship to gendered tasks and would be > more likely to employ readjustment or reduction strategies to reduce this > dissonance, while a person with weak-fem/weak-masc would experience > little cognitive dissonance and would not employ many readjustment > strategies. I think that an argument can be made that Keth does employ > such strategies. Although she does many "masculine" tasks, she seems to > take pains to do them in a way that makes them more feminine. For > example, she does go questing, but she maintains a comfortable homey > tent and takes care to look pretty and feminine. She is a mercenary, > but she constructs a story where that is merely a means to an end, with > the final goal being to become the mother of a restored Clan Tal'esedrin > (that the story is true doesn't diminish its ability to serve as a CD > reduction strategy). Kero, on the other hand, does not use very many > readjustment or reduction strategies. > > A final type that should be considered is the strong-masc/weak-fem > personnage. This would be a contrast to Dierna, who we can now describe > as having a strong-fem/weak-masc identity. To be honest, I am not able > to think of any such character (at least a female one). The basic > expection of such a character would be very reluctant to violate the > masculine gender role, but likely to violate the feminine role. This > would match what is traditionally though of as a "masculine" person. If > anyone can think of such a character (female), I would welcome hearing of it. > > Anyways, those are some of my thoughts. (Gee, can you tell that I am a > Gender Studies scholar and teacher?) > I thought you brought up some very valid points here. I agree with most of what you said, and what I didn't agree with, I'm going to take the time to think about. About Misty's seeming preference for "unfeminine" characters, It is my opinion that authors write characters a) they can identify with; b) they idealize; and c) are able to work within the frame of the plot. It would be no use to write an Elspeth that couldn't handle the rigors of life with the talysedras (sp) ( I never can spell that right, so I don't try.) Or a Kerowyn that would be afraid of Tarma. In writing adventure stories, of which most of these are, you *must* have strong characters who will be able to carry out the plot. In the AOQ series, Talia's adventures seem to be mostly mental and emotional rather than physical. And she is strong. And feminine. She doesnt't need the skills of Elspeth or Kerowyn, and therefore, she doesnt' get them. Yes she can defend herself, yes, she can fight, but she is a homebody doesnt' apoligize for it. (None of the preceding is stated in Misty's book, just my humble opinion.) Cennydd, I do not profess to be as knowledgeable as you about gender roles, or as a proficient a writer as Misty. I just know what I do, and what I have read. If anyone disagree's with me, let me know the NiteBird -- And may you get - not what you deserve - But your hearts desire. Sayvil, BTS ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 21:05:12 -0400 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com Message-ID: <199604160105.VAA28872-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> ne too! BTW, are there any objections if I start calling myself Moonsong? Like, is it taken? Zhai'helleva, Jeanette.<< Sorry but I already took that name. I made a list of some hawkbrother names if you want them. They're not from the books either. Thought you might want to know. Two Moonsong's might be a little much! Zhai'helleva! Lady Moonsong An Honorable Lady In Greenish Black An Honorable One In Blackish Green Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com "It's easy to identify people who can't count to 10. They're in front of you in the supermarket express lane." - June Henderson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:23:45 +0000 From: deanca To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Book lovers (fwd) Message-ID: <199604160021.UAA03674-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> > I have books that I have read many times and the spines and covers > are as perfect as if they had never been touched by human hands (these > are ones that I have managed to keep out of the hands of my father, of > course *grin*). Hmm, not fair. they're still like new? My body chemistry won't allow such a thing. The oil in my skin destroys things. If I touch it, it stays touched. -Free Bard Oriole known on IRC as Vrondi a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Careful the tale you tell, that is the spell." -The Witch from "Into The Woods" by Stephen Sondheim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 10:04:24 +0000 From: "deanca" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Borderlands Books Message-ID: <199604160102.VAA03890-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> Ok, these books sound neat. I've read a book called "Bordertown" about a town that was on the edge between elven and human worlds. Is this the same series/setting? It was a bunch of short stories by diff. authours. It was a cool book. I hadn't any notion there might have been others. So, What are these books? Name, order, authour, etc..? -Free Bard Oriole known on IRC as Vrondi a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Careful the tale you tell, that is the spell." -The Witch from "Into The Woods" by Stephen Sondheim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 10:23:53 +0000 From: "deanca" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I am here. (fwd) Message-ID: <199604160121.VAA03939-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> > If I am > going to listen to bardic music, I want it to be Melissa Etheridge and > Sarah MacLachlan! Can you just imagine? Stefen singing "I wanna Come > Over" to Van? Or Dirk singing "Come To My Window" to Talia? For that > matter, Sarah's song "Ice" would be perfect for the young Van in MPawn. good taste in music. ;) wow, I hadn't thought of it, but these songs work excellently with those characters. Can't you just see Kethry singing to Jadrek: "I'll take your breath away..." -Free Bard Oriole known on IRC as Vrondi a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Careful the tale you tell, that is the spell." -The Witch from "Into The Woods" by Stephen Sondheim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 10:36:51 +0000 From: "deanca" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Men in power (fwd) Message-ID: <199604160134.VAA03976-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> > > joining the chorus here but... remember Hulda? Powerful, vindictive, > > willing to take a long term path to absolute control, and definitely > > female? I'd say she's evil. > In fact, the only other villainess that I can think of in Misty's books are the > priestesses of Tezcatlipoca (in Burning Water) and the witch (in Jinx > High). I know her father was a bad influence, and she may come around if she ever regains her sanity, but Ria Llewellyn from "Knight of Ghosts and Shadows" was defintely a villian -Free Bard Oriole known on IRC as Vrondi a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Careful the tale you tell, that is the spell." -The Witch from "Into The Woods" by Stephen Sondheim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 11:21:07 +0000 From: "deanca" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: X-files (off topic) Message-ID: <199604160218.WAA04075-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> > > ObMisty: Wouldn't it be cool if Misty had regular Internet? > > How can we be sure she isn't?!? She seemed to be a furry muck fanatic > with the "realism" she portrayed of it in one story. She and Larry have Genie network. -Free Bard Oriole known on IRC as Vrondi a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Careful the tale you tell, that is the spell." -The Witch from "Into The Woods" by Stephen Sondheim ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 96 23:45:09 EDT From: Jake / Rynath in Green <102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: Cecelia's Delurk Message-ID: <960416034509_102744.2515_GHT48-1-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> >> Hi, everyone! << Hi, Cecelia! > I thought they were all > quite good except for the White Gryphon which was a disappointment after the > Black Gryphon. Can. It. Be? Another person who thought that _The White Gryphon_ was a disappointment! It was the only Misty book I actually *struggled* to get through because of disinterest in the plot (even _If I Pay Thee Not in Gold_ is better, in my opinion.) That's what we get for Misty writing two trilogies at the same time.. one of them (the Mage Wars) suffered greatly. And why is it the Mage Wars trilogy anyway? It seemed like the only Mage Warish stuff happened in _The Black Gryphon,_ and the rest were just the happy tales of the gryphons, etc. > One question: Why are there so many non-Misty things on the list? Eg. other > authors, gays etc. You will soon learn that this is more like the Mercedes-Lackey Mailing Ramble than a Mailing List. A whole lot of us enjoy hearing about new fantasy books which others think are good.. especially those who Misty has wrote with. And as for the sexual preference stuff, well, IIRC the original thread branched from something Misty-ish. Should we abandon a thread because it doesn't relate exactly to Misty? That's both the downside and the upside to the list, but welcome to our humble home! Dli kea'bemfoska akota'tyaaka-ne puku kea'tabhoka-beku (*) Rynath / Jake House Champion of the Ladies in Green Member of the Misty Mountain Vale The Hopeless Bibliomaniac 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com (*) For all of you who want ask me, it means "May the bones of your enemies form a bridge beneath your feet." It's from _Mind of the Magic_ by Holly Lisle. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 20:47:01 -0700 (MST) From: mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa And Tina) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: A strange request (Off topic) Message-ID: <199604160347.UAA08467-+AT+-usr1.primenet.com> First, let me say that I have no idea of the Netiquette involved with this question. I'm going to ask it anyway, and hope I have not broken a common sense rule or offended anyone (Although, as my listmates are no doubt saying to themselves right now, it wouldn't be the first time!:>) I am currently working on a novel involving an abused teenage boy. I've looked everywhere for case studies, autobiographies ect., but can't seem to find anything relating specifically to the physical abuse of teenagers. If anyone knows of any books, or would willingly share a personal story, I would be eternally grateful. Anything anyone wants to tell me will be kept completely confidential, unless otherwise stated in your letter. PLEASE RESPOND TO MY E-MAIL ADDRESS, NOT THE LIST!!!!! ObMisty: I wonder where Misty got her information on abuse? I've read "When Rabbit Howls" (Very scary book) but I just can't seem to relate most of the experiences to my character. Thanks for the patience everyone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lady 'Reesa<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Just one final thought. Writing is like sex: people do it all the time, in all sorts of ways, but only those with good control, technique, and length (or depth) really stand out. -Jake Adamo/Rynath In Green '96 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 20:47:57 -0700 From: James Augur To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Delurk Message-ID: <199604160347.UAA22303-+AT+-dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Heyla everyone, I am another lurker/fan of Misty's, and have been lurking for some weeks. As a librarian, I can sympathize with fellow bibliophiles:) Other delurking messages seem to include age and location so: I am 28, and a resident of Upland, CA. BTW, I would like to use the username Blue Vrondi, if no one else has claimed it. I, too, am a newbie to the list, if not the net, and apologize in advance for any blunders, mistakes, etc. I have been reading fantasy since junior high school. Thanks! James Augur (Blue Vrondi?) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:32:40 +0800 From: ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I am here. (fwd) Message-ID: <199604161132.TAA30668-+AT+-sunflower.singnet.com.sg> (extreme snippage) >Dirk to Talia: > >I would dial the numbers (OK, I admit this is anachronistic) >just to listen to your breath. >I would stand inside my Hell >and hold the hand of Death, >You don't know how far I'd go >To ease this precious ache. >You don't know how much I'd give, >or how much I can take, >Just to reach you. >("Come to My Window" by Melissa Etheridge off the LP _Yes I am_) (snip) I just wanted to say that they work extremely well in the context! I haven't heard them, but the lyrics are great. Zhai'helleva, Jeanette. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, Apr 16, 1996 6:19 AM From: "A.K. Wright" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Eagle and Nightengale Message-ID: <199604161320.GAA22006-+AT+-oboe.gina.calstate.edu> Hello all ! I'm new to this list and have been enjoying the topics. I usually don't delurk so soon but Heather's question about brothels struck a nerve. A little about me first: I'm 41, a student of ancient cultures, fascinated (angry at times, I admit) about how the influence of women on the development of civilizations and various cultures has been ignored or interpreted) and - most importantly - I love to read, read, read (why else would i be on this list???) Now, here goes a major "delurk" ...! Heather writes: > Did anyone else find it really, really unecessary to include brothels as > bastions of goodness and decency ? > Realistically speaking, most women don't just up and decide to become > prostitutes. No disease, no beatings, no addictions, no cruelty, no women -- > or men, might I add -- pressed to the wall with nothing to look forward to > besides degredation and lack of control over their own lives until they're > either dead or used up completely and of no value to anyone anymore. Not in > Alanda, by golly. How nice for them. Heather, you're absolutely right. "How nice for them." Because ... Once upon a time, sex was valued just for itself - a sacred act, not an act of possession or procreation. Once upon a time, men didn't know they were half responsible for pregnancy. It really wasn't until 1) women let the secret out and 2) the "dominator" tribes absorbed (destroyed) the ancient ones that fatherhood, virginity, promiscuity became more important concepts than the sacred act of childbirth and motherhood. When the dominant societies began to trace lineage through the fathers rather than the thousands of years that it had been traced through the mothers, women's sexual behavior had to be controlled. Thus - virginity and monogamous behavior was valued for women but wasn't as important for men. It was important who the FATHER was, not the mother. When women's sexual behavior had to be tightly controlled, sex-with-someone-of-the-woman's-choice became a sin. Not that life was one big orgy - but when a behavior is outlawed (marked as "evil"), the perceptions of it by society in general change. (Just look at the controversy surrounding the use of marijuana ... or peyote in some Native American cultures). Prostitution in the predominant culture of 1996 (patriarchal, monotheistic) is generally considered "evil." In Alanda, women are portrayed as *choosing* their sexual partners and are happy with their lifestyles. It's society's *perception* of sexual behavior is what I think she is trying to show. The definition of "prostitution" in 1996 is based on patriarchal control of women's sexual behavior. In Alanda, it isn't -- for the most part! I find that refreshing! (It's been a while since I read R&W, but I didn't want this topic to get to far away before I responded.) So much for quiet lurking on this list !! Please be kind to my sometimes radical Geminian behavior :) ! KT ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 13:08:39 EDT From: "Jill" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Off-topic (Sorry), Serrated Edge Message-ID: <2BAE7AB6B1F-+AT+-pub.sbu.edu> Okay, this is reeallly off-topic - please forgive me, I don't know who else to ask. :) Does anyone know of an ftp site I could download an unZIPing program from? Thanks! ObMisty ... So, does anyone know when the next Serrated Edge book is supposed to be out? :) Jill Morrison /// morrisjm-+AT+-sbu.edu /// Merlyn3109-+AT+-aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Lord, what fools these mortals be!" - Puck, "A Midsummer Night's Dream" Act 3, Scene 2, Line 115 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 13:30:55 -0400 (EDT) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Mercedes Lackey Booklist. Message-ID: <960416133055.730-+AT+-bpl.org> Since Jake posted a rough list (what? Since when is Tempus Fugit out?) I'll go ahead and let everyone know that Mel has asked me to take over compiling the text version of the bibliography. So if you know of any stories or books which didn't appear on his list, feel free to bombard me at with information. I'll put out a quick and dirty list tonight, and then post it again when I've done some revisions. (My taxes are in! My migraine is gone! Coincidence??) I am particularly looking for bibliographic information on translations of Misty's work, and filk information. (The two areas where my own researches are weakest.) I am a librarian by nature as well as by profession, so I am very interested in things like publisher, copyright/print dates, and ISBNs. Thanks, Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 13:06:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Chelsea Amberle Fischer To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List Subject: down again?? Message-ID: Sorry about sending this to the whole list instead of to our listmistress personally, but I can't find an address for her........ oops.... :( :) Anyway.. is the list down again, or did I just get spontaneously unsubscribed? ---Chelsae **************************************** Pukka pukka pukka pukka squeetily boink. ---Wembley Fraggle **************************************** caf0001-+AT+-jove.acs.unt.edu **************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 20:44:16 +0200 (METDST) From: Birgit Hanel To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Lark & Wren, was:Re: Thanks *and* Eagle and Nightingale Message-ID: On Sun, 14 Apr 1996, Marissa K Lingen wrote: > Okay, and I just read _The Eagle and The Nightingales_ this week, and > I have to ask if anyone else is bothered by this series. It seems > that the lines are so clear: Free Bards Good, Guild Bards Bad, by > definition. The Church (which I think was *way* too obviously > Christianity--the Sacrificed God--with even the story about casting > demons out and having them go into a herd of pigs?) was also almost > universally Bad. In fact, I found it a little off-putting that it > was so obviously based on Christianity and so *obviously* completely > antithetical to anything even close to good about that world. The > --Morticia > I've only read The Lark & the Wren so far and I don't think I'll bother to read the other ones. I didn't get hooked on it and I can't tell any particular reasons why I didn't like it. After reading Morticia's post I realized that this Bad Church theme was a major point why I wasn't much thrilled by the book. I didn't like it in Hambly's trilogies (Darwarth, Darkmage) as we discussed some time ago, and I didn't like it in L&W. I'm not christian (anymore - after attending a catholic girl school for 9 years, haha) and I strongly disapprove the way they (esp. Catholic Church) handle... well, almost everything, but seeing this kind of semi-concealed criticism really tires me by now. It always make me think "oh no, not agaaaaiiinnn, please lets move on to another topic". Why do they write about it? Just to show how a basically good religion can turn bad? Gosh, I *know* it, I guess everybody does, because it *has happened* in the past. I don't need to have that knowledge turned into a book, esp. not a fantasy book. Fantasy ist escapist literature. I don't like to read about societies which resemble past or present earth-societies too much. I like to read about totally different social structures, too see what is possible and will work, even if it is only in my mind. Or that of the author, for that matter. That's why I read SF and F, to see and read about new worlds, places and persons who will probably never occur here where I live. Ach. Enough ranting for one day. One positive aspect of L&W (yes, there was one, surprisingly!) was that this was one of the rare books in which the protagonist had to struggle for her livelihood. She didn't get either food or clothing for free and it didn't appear out of nowhere (as it seems to happen in most of the Valdemar books). She had to earn every coin and think carefully about the most useful way to spend it. That was well done, I mean the description of the people I can only describe with the german term "kleine Leute" and what their life looks like. Hmmm, maybe "mean folk" is the proper term. Anyway, quite a change from all those seemingly wealthy Heralds ;). Bis denne Khenta B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 20:58:40 +0200 (METDST) From: Birgit Hanel To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Top Ten New Plot Twists in Next Misty Novel Message-ID: On Sun, 14 Apr 1996, Jake / Rynath in Green wrote: > 4. Turns out all books after _Magic's Promise_ were a dream; Vanyel > wakes up and goes back to being happy with Stefan. If only she would do this! I know Misty *had* to explain somehow why there's no magic in Valdemar (before Mage Winds), but did she really have to let Van die? Why did he have to do this Final Strike thing when he had every reason to live and be happy with Stefen? Even if Van was not exactly at top strength after being...tortured, he would not have needed to do that Final Strike, he could easily have collapsed the canyon walls. He was an Adept, after all, and was able to tap into nodes to enhance his strength. Hmm, maybe it's just that I believe in letting your protagonists live. Bis denne Khenta B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 15:50:01 -0400 From: Shadow-Lover To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Last Unicorn Message-ID: <1.5.4b12.32.19960416195001.006a7784-+AT+-ix.netcom.com> At 10:10 PM 4/10/96 +0100, you wrote: > Has anyone seen "The Last Unicorn" recently? And what > about the book? I just borrowed the video from the library >(It was my favorite as a kid) and I was considering reading > the book, but I'd like some reveiws. > You know, I'm amazed at how much better it seems >now. It's almost like watching a totally new movie, but I >know I'm just catching all the "grown-up" stuff that I had >no clue about at seven or eight. *Shadow-Lover gryns at whoever wrote the original post...* I love that movie... I've seen it too many times, but I keep finding something new in it every time I see it... *Shadow-Lover continues to banter for hours on hours on the depth and intrigue of the symbolism in The Last Unicorn... Book and Movie...* :) > As long as I've got your attention, anybody know if >I can get the sound-track? I just love the title song. The >name of the band that did it is/was America, and I heard >somewhere (Where is "somewhere"?) that Peter Beagle had >written them, but then, I could just be making it up in my > more-than-slightly delusional mind... There is no soundtrack as far as I know... I've been looking for years... America wrote and performed all the songs off the album.... For those that have never seen the movie... The lyrics are up there with Shadow-Lover in my book... Obmisty: Companions are not unicorns.. (Followed by a crude comment involving Roland, fertility, and the word "horn") The Last Unicorn When the last eagle flies Over the last crumbling mountain And the last lion roars At the last dusty fountain In the shadow of the forest Though she may be old and worn They will stare unbelieving At the Last Unicorn When the first breath of winter Through the flowers is icing And you look to the north And the pale moon is rising And it seems that all is dying And will leave the world to mourne In the distance hear the laughter Of the Last Unicorn I'm Alive... I'm Alive... When the last day is cast Over the last star of morning And the future has past Without even a last desperate morning Then look into the sky where through The clouds a path is torn There you'll see her How she sparkles! It's the Last Unicorn I'm Alive... I'm Alive!!! - Shadow-Lover *************************-E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com-************************ * - Freedom of opinion can only exist when the government thinks itself * * secure... -Bertrand Russell * * - It is respectable to have no illusions - and safe - and profitable - * * and dull... -Joseph Conrad * ********************************-IRC: Hairenn-******************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 15:49:59 -0400 From: Shadow-Lover To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ADMIN: let me repeat this, once more, with feeling. Message-ID: <1.5.4b12.32.19960416194959.0069e870-+AT+-ix.netcom.com> At 01:46 PM 4/10/96 +0100, you wrote: > >No. Chain. Letters. > >I really mean this. > >Mel. > Umm... Forgive this but I gotta: Due to the fact that we, the readers, are meant to read this posting, heed it's warning, and follow it's directions without fail under penalty of horrible things happening to us... By defintion doesn't that make this a chain letter? - Shadow-Lover *************************-E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com-************************ * - Freedom of opinion can only exist when the government thinks itself * * secure... -Bertrand Russell * * - It is respectable to have no illusions - and safe - and profitable - * * and dull... -Joseph Conrad * ********************************-IRC: Hairenn-******************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 15:50:09 -0400 From: Shadow-Lover To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Anthony Message-ID: <1.5.4b12.32.19960416195009.0069dc7c-+AT+-ix.netcom.com> At 08:37 PM 4/12/96 +0100, you wrote: >On Piers Anthony negativity: > > Piers Anthony was one of the first fantasy authors I ever started >reading, starting with one of the Xanth books (the Nightmare one, I >think). And, yes, I do think that they were good at first, but >lately they've been all puns and in-jokes and no plot. Ridiculous. >Humor has its place (i finally managed to get my hands on a copy of >Mary Gentle's "Grunts," which came *highly* recommeded :), but >they're not even funny anymore. I reread the first nine every once in >a while, though. > The APprentice Adept series was good (IMHO), especially the first >three. The next couple were alright ... but the final one was awful. >The Incarnations series was interesting - but I've only read a few. >:) Some day I'll get very bored and have nothing to read and I'll >manage to finish it. > Is it me or did everyone start reading fantasy with either Tolkien or Anthony? The first fantasy book I read was "The Last Unicorn" followed by "On a Pale Horse" and "The Hobbit"... - Shadow-Lover *************************-E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com-************************ * - Freedom of opinion can only exist when the government thinks itself * * secure... -Bertrand Russell * * - It is respectable to have no illusions - and safe - and profitable - * * and dull... -Joseph Conrad * ********************************-IRC: Hairenn-******************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:22:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: age Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Apr 1996 dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl wrote: > > Woah. It's amazing how many people you think are college kids or > > > adults, only to find out...well, I'll put Shadow-Lover out of his misery > > > (last I heard he was trying to figure out how old I was): I'm 15, too, > > > soon to be 16! > > gee, I'm ancient! An old maid of 19... > > - -Free Bard Oriole > > But you're babies - good grief I read my first McCaffrey over 16 years ago, > and I considered myself "grown up" even then. I've been reading Lacky, > McCaffrey, McKilip, McKinley etc etc etc as they published. I have spent > _years_ of my life waiting for the next bit to appear, you littles don't > know how lucky you are - you can just go and get Arrows/Winds/Vows and Honour > as complete job lots - I don't think I've bought any of them that way - just > the long drawn out, when-are-the-soddin'-publishers-going-to-bring-out-the- > paperback way. > > tot ziens, > Esmeralda Evensbane > Ahhh, but we do have to wait like you did. I'm drooling over storm rising and silver gryphon, just waiting for the paperbacks. And you got the lucky chance of having certain putof print books available to you And you also got to follow their careers from the beginning. Even if you do go buy everything at once, it only takes a few days to read it all, then you're drooling for more. At least I am... Lady Becky The more that you read, the more things you will know. The more that you learn, the more places you'll go. --Dr. Suess ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:28:26 -0400 (EDT) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Borderlands books Message-ID: <960416192826.10e2-+AT+-bpl.org> HELLO ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:35:35 -0400 (EDT) From: HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Delurk Message-ID: <01I3MD09GTF68ZFUOH-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu> As for the age thing--Isn't it a good sign that the youth of America (and beyond) are getting into such good reading habits. Too bad that's not like a virus and easily spread. This from the soon to be 20 year old who gets carded trying to buy lighters for her candles! Shadowspun ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:45:43 -0400 (EDT) From: HATST5-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Valdemaran music (was Re: I am here. (fwd)) Message-ID: <01I3MDA1U8TU8ZFUOH-+AT+-vms.cis.pitt.edu> A dance troupe? Wasn't there one in the Haighlei Empire? Skan went nuts over it. It would stand to reason that if the Haighlei, total sticks in the mud that they are, have one, then the other countries must also. Of course, none of them have been necessary for the plot yet, so of course we haven't heard anything about them. Although it would be a good thing if the courts had those for entertainment rather than just standing around gabbering like they seem to do. Oh! I thought of some good courtiers! The two leaders of Randale's court (since he's sick.) Remember how they took Treesa under their wings. They were Countess Bryerly(?) and Lady Something or other. Shadowspun ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 09:45:17 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Valdemaran music (was Re: I am here. (fwd)) Message-ID: <9604162345.AA07222-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Morticia (Marissa) wrote: > I totally agree with Cennydd on this one. I don't think there's a > good reason for there *not* to be complex polyphonic music on > Valdemar--I mean, they have a Bardic school in Havens, so it's not > like the Bards are so scattered that they couldn't constitute an > orchestra. I guess I sort of keep expecting that there is one and we > just haven't heard about it yet. You'd think there would be some > sort of permanent dance and/or theatre company as well. Capital > cities seem to attract such things. I'd like to see the Bards get up > a huge group and just *go* with it! The only reason I can think of is that it might be dangerous to have that many Bards all playing together. Consider - an orchestra, full of bards, all emoting their little hearts out. :) Even worse, an orchestra of bards backing bardic opera singers.. Valdemar might never be the same. :) *grin* Yes, it is early morning here. :) Cheers, Kerry. "The three most dangerous things in the world are an intelligent person without morals, an armed fool with a cause, and a bored computer programmer..." ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 480 *********************************