MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 494 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: age and ""Rif and Rat" by cscd3150121-+AT+-ewu.edu 2) Re:Re: more lifebonded ??? by cscd3150121-+AT+-ewu.edu 3) Re: susan cooper by cscd3150121-+AT+-ewu.edu 4) Re: Hello! (Delurk) by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com 5) Re: Champions by Heather Watson 6) first fantasy & more by starlite-+AT+-intergate.bc.ca (Kay) 7) Re: Lifebonds by Heather Watson 8) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 493 by "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" 9) RE: First Fantasy books, (was re:antony) by Jennifer Lynn Greenwood 10) Re: Diplomacy by Heather Watson 11) Re: Oy by Rossinyol 12) Off Topic Observ. (was Re: Hello! (Delurk)) by Rossinyol 13) Re: Cover artists by cscd3150121-+AT+-ewu.edu 14) Re: Lifebonds by cscd3150121-+AT+-ewu.edu 15) Re: Cover artists by Heather Watson 16) Re: Arthur by Heather Watson 17) Re: Leareth by aaron douglas bilodeau 18) Re: Anthony by "Vrondi" 19) Re: book lovers(reading speed) by "Vrondi" 20) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 493 by Rossinyol 21) Re: book lovers by Vrondi 22) Re: Cover artists by "Vrondi" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 10:13:07 -0800 (PST) From: cscd3150121-+AT+-ewu.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: age and ""Rif and Rat" Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, Carolyn Taylor wrote: > Just to make all of you feel young, I'm 64 this September. Does anyone else > remember waiting for Dragon Rider sections to come out as a serial? Cant > remember whether it was Galaxy or Analog. > > Regarding the characters referred to on the tape "Mercedes Lackey Live" what > stories were Rif (Sp?) and Rat in. > > Carolyn > > Thanx Carolyn, I'll cancel that order for Geritol and put Grandma's old zimmer back in the attic :) . Seriously tho, it's always nice to find a grown-up who still likes fantasy and/or sci-fi, so many people act like it's "kid stuff." OB Misty: Why/when was the knowledge of how to make the nice roads found near Haven lost? You'd think it'd be important enough to hold onto. Or do these roads predate Valdemar? David Tiffany ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 10:28:23 -0800 (PST) From: cscd3150121-+AT+-ewu.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Re: more lifebonded ??? Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, SCN User wrote: > > Why do Misty characters never seem to notice that they're lifebonded? >(snip,snip) > I think it's more of a cultural mindset, that Lifebonds don't > occur and most people probably don't know them, so what's the point in > (more snip) Here in the mundane world I (at 22) never expected to get married and neither did the 18 yr old lady I met at a bus stop (depot actually) one day. We both thought it just wasn't in the cards. We were engaged in days, married within months and still together after 13 years! Point being: who really expects to find a perfect relationship by chance? Esp. after all the disasters of your teenage years. (No insult to teeenagers, but you could NOT pay me enough to do those six or so years over again!) David Tiffany ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 10:37:19 -0800 (PST) From: cscd3150121-+AT+-ewu.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: susan cooper Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, Katherine M. Brielmaier wrote: >(snip) > I love Susan Cooper--anybody read "Seaward" by her? Nice weaving of Celtic > and Norse mythology in that one. Then of course there's "The Dark is > Rising" sequence---great stuff! > (snip) Yup. Also just finshed reading "Dark is Rising" sequence (including "Over Sea, Under Stone") to my 8 yo daughter. > ANYTHING by Guy Gavriel Kay. Second the motion. OB Misty: Is there sentient life in the seas on Velgrath? And, if so, do they have mages? David Tiffany ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 11:38:47 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Hello! (Delurk) Message-ID: <199604211838.LAA23526-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla! >Kay wrote: > When asked why he wasn't an adept, he said something >>like, "Better a first class mage, than a second class adept." > >There is something like that in Winds of Fate. Darkwind says that it is >better to be a first-class scout than to be a second-class mage. He thinks >that his magic is flawed. Maybe this is a pet subject of Misty. >Zhai'helleva, > >Lady Wintersong >A Lady In Green >Cecilia (ckwok-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg) Well, she certainly repeated those stories about a good Journeyman besting a poor adept ad nauseum (well, not quite. But enough). ObMisty: Countries in Velgarth seem to know very little about countries that don't border them. 'Course, the same was true in Europe in the Middle Ages. Zhai'helleva and Cheysuli i'halla shansu, "We all know that books burn - yet we have the greater knowledge that books cannot be killed by fire. People die, but books never die. No man and no force can abolish memory." - F.D.R., message to the American Bookseller's Association [April 24, 1942] ************************************************** Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr ************************************************** /\ | If anyone had any problems with that, you should've spoken up. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 14:28:59 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Champions Message-ID: <21APR96.15641977.0051.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> To answer the question about why Valdemaran monarchs never had champions, I'd have to say a little bit of two of the answers proposed. 1) All monarchs are also Heralds, and all Heralds are taught how to fight. Remember the lessons at the beginning of Winds, where Kerowyn is teaching Elspeth how to fight off an assassin until help arrives? 2a) The Monarch's Own does function as a kind of champion. When they hold the ceremony to honor Elspeth being Chosen, Talia is especially nervous because she knows she's the one who has to handle it should there be an attack. That's why the nifty tear-away formal. 2b) The monarch lives in Haven, dead in the middle of the Collegium. There are bushels of energetic, loyal Heralds just yearning to throw themselves bodily in front of any hurled daggers. In a sense, the entire Heraldic circle functions as the monarch's champion -- ready to defend and uphold and all that. There need not be one particular champion (though there are key positions, like MO and Marshal, that are especially responsible for that kind of thing.) HTH "We're not alcoholics. We're the authors." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:26:59 -0700 From: starlite-+AT+-intergate.bc.ca (Kay) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: first fantasy & more Message-ID: <199604211926.MAA19609-+AT+-diablo.intergate.bc.ca> Oops. Sorry that first message came twice - I'm new to the net and to everything else! Thanks for the welcome! Lady Wintersong wrote: >>Kay wrote: >> When asked why he wasn't an adept, he said something >>>like, "Better a first class mage, than a second class adept." > >There is something like that in Winds of Fate. Darkwind says that it is >better to be a first-class scout than to be a second-class mage. He thinks >that his magic is flawed. Maybe this is a pet subject of Misty. Actually, you may be right that it was in the Winds of Fate. I read both trilogies, and my mind's still in la-la-land. Sorry. Thanks for setting me straight. Anyway, it was the idea that I was wondering about. On Sun, 21 Apr 1996 09:28:18 +0100, Kaatje () wrote: >anybody else besides me regularly comb through the children's section in >libraries and bookstores? I've read so many books that I've half >forgotten--it's a lot of fun to come across them again! I was just thinking along the same lines! I don't know HOW you all can remember your first fantasy books. I've been through so many books I can't even remember some of them until I pick one up and think, hey , this seems familiar. Hmmm. Maybe I already read it? -- That's SAD, I know. But I will always remember a really great (or really sucky) book. I do like going through the children's section though, because of some really neat books that I loved, and also for the great illustrations in some of them. Does anyone else here like King Arthur? Everytime I visited my past (yet favorite) grade 7 teacher, he told me to read the books (The Dream of Eagles cycle) by Jack Whyte. He said that *all* the teachers were reading them and discussing them, and told me that I should read it, too. Well, I finally got around to it, and I love them! They're about the time BEFORE Camelot and King Arthur. They tell how it came to be, and it's not just boring history; in the first book, "The Skystone" , you would hardly know that it was connected to Camelot, except for a few names and such that sound similar. The first book, in my opinion, is the best of the three that I've read. The second and third ("The Singing Sword" and "The Eagles' Brood" )are good too, but I haven't read the fourth ("The Saxon Shore"). The characters and plots are just magnificent! Anyone else read anything good having to do with King Arthur? I'd like to read some more.. Kay (Midnite Whisper?) (I'll scrap my sig for now, since my letter's already so long) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 14:53:13 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Lifebonds Message-ID: <21APR96.16077983.0051.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> I seem to have been mistaken about somebody telling Tylendel about the lifebond. In searching for my TE (textual evidence), it appears that *no one* told Tylendel. The first mention I found (help me out if anyone sights an earlier one) of Tylendel & Vanyel being lifebonded was *after* Tylendel died, from Savil. The line was something like "it's not every day you get one half of a lifebonded pair left after the other suicides." Savil's listener (gah, forgot again, some other Herald) is shocked and askes if she's *sure* they were lifebonded, to which Savil replies, pretty sure, on the strength of Mardic & Donni's belief. So as far as I can tell, Tylendel was never aware that he was lifebonded, or if he was, he kept it under his hat. He does know from the start of their relationship that he's in love with Vanyel, but I found no mention of lifebonding until after Tylendel's death. And I'm just not so sure about this theory that people never notice they're lifebonded because they're not expecting it. Surely people grow up on Tales of High Romance that feature lifebonds, and the more romantic among them doubtless dream it will one day happen to them. Certainly Firesong thinks about it. If anything, I'd expect people to be erroneously convinced that they *were* lifebonded, at least in the early, overwhelming stages of a relationship. It just seems a little silly not to realize that something major is going on, just because you weren't expecting it to happen. Kerowyn didn't expect to soulbond to Need, but she noticed the pull. Tashir didn't expect to be Chosen, but he knew this Companion belonged to him. Kethry and Tarma certainly didn't expect to be soulbonded, but they noticed when it happened. So it seems odd that lifebonds aren't like that. Why does even Vanyel, who ought to *know* what a lifebond looks like, spend so long convinced that his feelings for Stef are totally a combination of friendship, loneliness, and Stef's general attractiveness? Why is it always more obvious to outsiders than to the people involved (Kris knew before Dirk or Talia, Medren knew before Stefan)? I guess it's supposed to increase the tension in the story. If they know it's a lifebond from Moment One, there's no "will they get together or won't they?" sort of suspense. But I think it would be interesting to see a couple who gets together because they're lifebonded, so obviously that's where they need to be, but still don't really know one another yet. There would be some verrry interesting issues there. Maybe I'll write a short story. I couldn't find the quote about Vanyel & Tylendel having a stronger-than-normal lifebond, but I *know* it's in there somewhere. Anyone with more time than I have want to get on this one and find that quote? Oh, and here's to be picky. Lifebonding is not really similar at all to Recognition in Elfquest, for several reasons. Recognition is a mating urge, designed to produce children. People of the same gender never Recognize, because there would be no point. You don't have to like the person you Recognize (Tyldak and Dewshine were certainly not terribly fond of one another), you just have to be genetically compatible. You also don't have to stay with the person you Recognize after you conceive the child. You can Recognize more than once (guess you can lifebond more than once, technically, but it's not uncommon with Recognition). And if you dilly-dally around after getting Recognized without doing anything about it, you become violently ill. (Talia wasn't feeling too well without Dirk, but if she'd been an Elfquest elf, she would literally have been shaking and unable to walk, let alone travel to Hardorn.) Lifebonding is about love, about the soul, not reproduction. For those who are wondering How I Know, I get all this not only from the comic books themselves, but from an article written by Richard Pini (co-creator of the series) called "How Loud is Your Reptile?" It's printed in the Big Elfquest Gatherum, and I believe it's on the web somewhere, too, if you want to look around for it. HTH "We're not alcoholics. We're the authors." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 16:03:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 493 Message-ID: This is to those who were talking about the video of *The Black Cauldron*...I hope it DOES stay in Disney's moratorium file or whatever they are calling the group of animated films they aren't currently releasing on video--and I hope it stays in that unreleased group permenently, because it is one of the very worst adaptations of any kind that I have ever seen! Not only was it a lousy adaptation of Lloyd Alexander's original, leaving out a lot of neat characters--I'd really, really, been hoping to see not only Fflewddur Fflamm but also Gurgli--but also it was simply an extremely poor attempt at animation. I watched the whole thing in a sort of dazed horror, trying not to moan aloud, in a theatre in Bluefield, WV about 12 yrs. ago. With all the special effects possible today, I hope that eventually some enterprising filmmaker will want to do the whole series (and are any of you familiar with the story of how Fflewddur got his truthful harp? It's one I tell often in an adapted form to other harpers. And for some newbies, I am not a newbie, but I am unaffiliated, mainly because of press of work inhibiting the amount of email that I can read. And, um, well, yes, I wear a lot of blue (I am, after all, a harper--and I look awful in Bardic red, besides having a loooong way to go before my harping equals my telling and poetry) but as for spending a lot of time with machines and gears and suchlike thingamabobs, I'm the one who's missed a lot of recent ML digests owing to my elderly Macintosh SE going up in a puff of smoke (literally!)...but now I have a shiny new Macintosh performa 6214CD which has a soundboard (oh, boy, now I can listen to harp CDs on Sunday afternoons at work) and loads of things I never saw before, 9/10ths of which I have no idea what to do with..... And for those of you, if any, who've been wondering what I've been up to, I have 3 things coming out in *The Folk Harp Journal*: a concert review of Emma Christian in the Spring issue, and a review of Patrick Ball's *Storyteller: Gwillan's Harp and Other Celtic Tales* album, and "By Water, Castle, Cave and Castle: The Harp in Welsh Folktales", both coming out in the Summer issue. Am I excited? You betcha! Not to mention the joys of work and housework 8^( plus gigs as a teller...and being the site coordinator for the 3rd annual Pennsylvania Storytelling Conference here in Pittsburgh on May 4th.... About the Patrick Ball album: If you like Ursula K. LeGuin's stuff (or Lloyd Alexamder's, or anything set in a Celtic society), you should love the "Gwillan's Harp" selection, because it is an original short story of LeGuin's. It's just over a half hour in length, and is a wonderful blending of her words, his voice, and several instruments playing a number of traditional airs. The entire album is fabulous! (Clearly this was not an unbiased review.....) It's released by Celestial Harmonies out of Tucson, Arizona. (Sorry, Mel, I know that was off-topic.) BTW, has anyone else read a neat juvinile book (at least that's where I always find it) called *A Walk out of the World*? Can't think of the author at the moment, and can't check, since I'm at work. I think she's Canadian; it's set partly in Toronto I think, and is a neat fantasy book. I believe the author was in her late teens when it was first published in the 1970s. Clueless dept.: Will one of you nice people clue me in on what you mean by ObMisty? I think I know from the contexts in which it's being used, but want to know for certain. (I told you it's been a loooooong time!) Oh, it's so nice to finally have time (and the capablility) to read these again! --Barra Jacob-McDowell (aka Barra the Bard) bj00+-+AT+-andrew.cmu.edu Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb Harpers have pluck--but don't get strung out.--Barra the Bard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 16:13:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Jennifer Lynn Greenwood To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: First Fantasy books, (was re:antony) Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, Vivian Choh wrote: Disney had decided to bury the film and pretend it doesn't happen. The colorful cartoon book is out of print, and the film itself was regarded on the whole as a failure. The movie was started during a time when it would have been widely accepted by audiences, but by the time they finished, amidst writer troubles, new artists, and different people in charge, the result did not go over well. I did see it when it came out, but it was very long ago. Disney just plans to let the film die out, though movie posters are still available. My guess is they'll touch it up and re-release it with edited/corrected stuff in a few years, though that could be wishful thinking on my part. That brings up an interesting thought... I wonder how many novels Misty went through the submissions process with before she first got published. I should probably know this, but I think she was first published in one of Marion Zimmer Bradley's anthologies, but I don't know for sure that she wasn't published somewhere before. Ok, now back to my own writing, though it's only a report for an engineering class. :) Jenny, the disney connection. :) |----------------------/=<-+AT+->=\------------------------| "Did you ever wonder about the meaning of life, Dogbert?" "I used to... But then I looked it up in the Dictionary under 'L' and there it was -- the Meaning of Life... It was less than I expected." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 15:22:50 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Diplomacy Message-ID: <21APR96.16611106.0051.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> It does seem a little odd that Valdemar and Karse knew *nothing* about each other. Yeah, they were at war, sort of, but normally even countries at war have ambassadors in one another's courts. Messages are relayed, threats issued, compromises considered, new rulers make it clear that they do or do not stand behind the policies of the last regime. That's what foreign affairs are all about. Must be a comment on just how inflexible things had gotten between the two countries that diplomacy hadn't even been considered for so long. And how interesting that monarchs never seem to visit one another. Certainly they did on our world in the European Middle Ages. But then, they were all related to each other, or they wanted to be. That doesn't seem to be the case on Velgarth either. There are no dynasties, that we've heard of. HTH "We're not alcoholics. We're the authors." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 16:31:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Rossinyol To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Oy Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, Lady Wintersong wrote: > The Nitebird wrote: > > >OBMisty: I just looked at my Arrows series covers, and Talia does not > >look like that! In my opinion. Actually, I thought Talia looked exactly right on the covers (we are talking the Jody Lee artwork, right?). Perhaps a little taller than one might expect, but I think that is understandable. If she were pictured any shorter, she would look laughably ridiculous on Rolan, totally out of proportion. > In my opinion, the artist never read any of the books! I'm sure that > Darkwind & Amberdrake do not look like what they are drawn to be like. I don't know about Amberdrake. I don't remember him being on a cover. If you are talking about the inside artwork, it was done by Larry Dixon, Misty's husband. If anyone would know what Misty intended the characters to look like, he would. Besides, I am sure that if he got it wrong, Misty would say something. It isn't like, given the sitch, that she would never see the artwork until after the book had gone to print. As for the covers, I assumed that Jody Lee has read the books and possibly consulted with Misty on them. The details are too good. Also, since she (JL) has been doing the covers since the very beginning, I am sure that Misty would have said something and (maybe) gotten a different cover artist, if she was dissatisfied with the portrayals. I have to say that I have not been. I think that Jody Lee has gotten as close as humanly possible to the way the characters are described in the text. Besides, the art is just gorgeous on its own. =) May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 16:37:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Rossinyol To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Off Topic Observ. (was Re: Hello! (Delurk)) Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Apr 1996 kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com wrote: > "We all know that books burn - yet we have the greater knowledge that > books cannot be killed by fire. People die, but books never die. No man > and no force can abolish memory." - F.D.R., message to the American > Bookseller's Association [April 24, 1942] Gee, since someone else on here besides me loves GGK, I'll say it. FDR should have read _Tigana_! May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 13:45:53 -0800 (PST) From: cscd3150121-+AT+-ewu.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Cover artists Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, Lady Wintersong wrote: > The Nitebird wrote: > > >OBMisty: I just looked at my Arrows series covers, and Talia does not > >look like that! In my opinion. > > > In my opinion, the artist never read any of the books! I'm sure that I've seen very few fantasy/sci-fi books where the cover gave me a feeling that the artist read the book. One of the worst I've seen was "Downbelow Station" by C.J. Cherryh, there are detailed plans of the space station the story is set on in the front of book but the cover picture proves the artist never even got that far! Not to mention the USA on the side of a station several hundred years and parsecs from here & now in a series of books where the Earth seems to unified as one country! Sorry, pet peeve. David Tiffany ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 14:53:41 -0800 (PST) From: cscd3150121-+AT+-ewu.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, Heather Watson wrote: > The first mention I found (help me out if anyone sights an earlier > one) of Tylendel & Vanyel being lifebonded was *after* Tylendel died, When Savil finds Tylendel & Vanyel after thier first time 'Lendel tells her "you're always teasing me about falling in love-but-I don't know, this feels different." After the fake fight, when 'Lendel & Van are fussing over each other, Mardic (lifbonded) asks Savil "Havens teacher, were we as moonstruck as that?" so the word lifebonded wasn't used, at least not that I con find in a quick check, but there certainly was some mention that this was more than a passing thing. Also, it occurs that if 'Lendel was able to draw on Van because they were bonded wouldn't he have to have known about the bond to know to suggest it? Confused as ever, david Tiffany ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 17:56:28 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Cover artists Message-ID: <21APR96.19376635.0093.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> My pick for Biggest Screw-Up By a Cover Artist: *Those Who Hunt the Night* by Barbara Hambly (a relatively good vampire book set in turn of the century England). These vampires interact in human society, and Hambly talks about their teeth being just slightly longer than normal -- not so much that you'd think much of it...unless you knew. The vampire on the cover (I'm not even sure who he's supposed to be) has tusks down to his chin. Badly-drawn tusks. Guess the publisher thought we wouldn't figure out the book was about vampires otherwise. ObMisty: My personal favorite Misty-related pictures are the cover of Magic's Price, and the Larry Dixon "Amberdrake Alone," which I believe is the final interior illustration in The Black Gryphon. I just sat staring at that picture for the longest time, soaking it in. There's such an intense emotional feel to it. I also like the picture of Vanyel on the cover of my book, which is the SciFi Book Club's omnibus edition. I can't find the artist credited anywhere, but it's a great picture. Very stormy, brooding look, lots of greys and other muted cool colors. And Vanyel looks great. HTH "We're not alcoholics. We're the authors." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 18:06:48 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Arthur Message-ID: <21APR96.19562489.0093.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Here are my prime, don'tmissem recommendations for stuff about King Arthur. 1. The Mists of Avalon (Marion Zimmer Bradley). Very feminist, very pagan. Told from Morgaine's point of view. Everyone screws up in this version, which makes it particularly tragic. There's a prequel, The Forest House, which I didn't like nearly as much. I thought it would have made a good novella. 2. Firelord and Beloved Exile (Parke Godwin). Probably my favorite author. Very historical (inasmuch as possible, when so little is really known about the history, if any, of Arthur). Beloved Exile takes place after his death, and is told by Guenevere. 3. The Winter Prince (Elizabeth Wein). King Arthur is not in this book much -- it's really the story of his children. In this version he has three, including Medraut (ya, that's Mordred), who narrates the book. It's short, fast, and I don't think I took my eyes off it once while reading it. What really makes me sick is that it's Wein's first novel, and she's under 30. I have a ways to go before I write like this. There are billions more, and if it wasn't almost finals week I'd go look a few up for you. But it is. I think there's a long bibliography of Arthurian literature on the web, which may help you, or just swamp you. Have fun. Oh, and Arthur shows up in The Fionavar Tapestry (The Summer Tree, The Wandering Fire, and The Darkest Road). It's not exactly Arthurian, per se, but I thought I'd mention it because it's by Guy Gavriel Kay, who, as has been mentioned recently, is uniformly cool. Definitely a writer no one has any good excuse for not reading. HTH "We're not alcoholics. We're the authors." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 18:49:11 -0500 (EST) From: aaron douglas bilodeau To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Leareth Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Apr 1996, A giant telepathic squid wrote: > Ok, just curious about this (I've been re-reading SW, which is what made > me think of it) -- was anyone else here irritated that Leareth was just > another incarnation of Falconsbane? That really bothered me when I fount > out about it -- it felt like it cheapened Van's death a little. Yes, he > saved his country; yes, he stopped The Army of Darkness (tm), but > Leareth/Ma'ar/Falconsbane just came back again in a different form. That > ticked me off. > Any other thoughts/opinions? > > Becky > Actually, I believe it was also mentioned in WoC when Falconsbane was remembering the time he was Leareth. When I read that, however, I thought it was pretty cool. The only thing I would have wanted was some indication that it left a lasting impression on him. As it was, he had inly vague memories of a far-off kingdom called Valdemar and something about white-clad riders and their horses. absolutely no mention of the fact that he studied them for decades, learning their ways and carefully eliminating every last one of their mages. That was what disappointed me. What I figured was that every lifetime was distinct and separate for him and that his personality changed accordingly. He had access to his past lives, but lived each life as a different one, occasionally botherling to pick up where he left off in the last one. Looking at it that way, When Vanyel killed Leareth he did a great service to Valdemar by killing the one who wanted to take it. The next incarnation of Ma'ar had Leareth's memories, but was still a different person. For that matter, I believe that Krebain was another of those incarnations. He was an adept, he was foppish, and he was a pelagir changeling-human halfbreed. More than that, he was a cat-changeling halfbreed. There aren't too many of those and Leareth was of the same type. This suggests that Leareth was related to, if not descended from Krebain, and since Krebain was of the Blood and an adept, there was no reason why Ma'ar's spirit wouldn't move in. The only thing that makes me question this position was that a fifteen-year-old Vanyel managed to kill him. On the other hand, he was awfully arrogant and probably didn't think this youngster had any more tricks up his sleeve. Of course, this would explain Leareth's fascination with Valdemar and Vanyel in particular. (grin) It would also mean that Van got him with twice. With the same trick, even. You'd think he would have learned. Oh, well. Summerstorm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 09:18:59 +0000 From: "Vrondi" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Anthony Message-ID: <199604220017.UAA06676-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> I just picked up > >a copy of _The Gift of Magic_ at a thrift store for $.25!!!! Oh well. > > > >the NiteBird Oh. My. God.!!!!!!!!!!! I read "The Gift of Magic" in 6th grade, and haven't ever came across it or anyone who had heard of it until now! Wow! Now I know who the author was! I suppose it's probably out of print, hmm? I would love to get ahold of it. Another book I read in grade school, but have no idea of the author, is "The Prince of Whales." yes, Whales,not Wales. It was sooo, awesome! I wish to goodness there were used book stores around here. Sorry to ramble, just excited! ObMisty: I finally got "Tiger burning Bright" and am reading it. It's awesome! But, hey, with Misty, Andre Nortan, and Marion Zimmer Bradley together it had to be! - Vrondi a.k.a. Free Bard Oriole. a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Careful the tale you tell, that is the spell." -The Witch from "Into The Woods" by Stephen Sondheim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 09:41:58 +0000 From: "Vrondi" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: book lovers(reading speed) Message-ID: <199604220040.UAA06745-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> > Ever read "Hills like white elephants" ? Ugh, what a dreary depressing story. On reading speed, I have always, since I learned to read, Had a pretty respectable amount of speed goin' on! I had several teachers over the years who _refused_ to believe I had really read that story so quickly! "You did read it? Not that quickly! Well. Read it again!" yuck! With a very good speed, I have always maintained _very_ high comprehension scores. I even went OFF THE SCALE one of the many standardized tests they made take in grade school. So, how is it that one cannot believe that each has a built in comprehension speed and some are just faster than others? What is more, I _still_ 10, 12, and 14 years later remember most of those atories I read so very quickly so long ago in class. And this when My classmates who read at normal speeds most of the time look at me and say, "We read _what_ in 3rd grade!? how do you remember?" ok, 'nuff said - Vrondi a.k.a. Free Bard Oriole. a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ecstacy and misery have one thing in common- They both _love_ company." -me ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 21:57:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Rossinyol To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 493 Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell wrote: > This is to those who were talking about the video of *The Black > Cauldron*...I hope it DOES stay in Disney's moratorium file or whatever > they are calling the group of animated films they aren't currently > releasing on video--and I hope it stays in that unreleased group > permenently, because it is one of the very worst adaptations of any kind > that I have ever seen! Hmmm. Well, apparently I have to say something now. I *liked* the movie. Yes, it was a radically different version than Alexander's books. But it was still a good movie. This was one of the movies that taught me that you always have to watch a movie for itself, rather than for the story it is based on. If you want to experience the book, READ THE BOOK! People who go to a movie adaptation expecting it to be a faithful rendering of their subjective imaginings of a book are rather obviously setting themselves up for disappointment. People who go expecting a movie to be an accurate and exact rendering of the text, however, are setting themselves up just as badly. Written text and film text are totally different media. A film cannot possibly be accurate and exact as a rendering of a written text. If you are going to watch a movie, watch *the movie*! Comparison is invidious. Particularly when it is of the apples and oranges variety. I wish that Disney would release _The Black Cauldron_. I would love to see it again. It was actually a very good movie (or at least I remember enjoying it greatly). And before anyone asks, I grew up on the Prydain cycle. When I went to see the movie, I had read the books so many times that I had whole passages committed to memory. However, after the first few minutes of the film, when I realized that it wasn't going to be very faithful books, I made the decision to watch *the movie* and forget everything I knew from the books. And I had a wonderful time. > And for those of you, if any, who've been wondering what I've been > up to, I have 3 things coming out in *The Folk Harp Journal*: a concert > review of Emma Christian in the Spring issue, and a review of Patrick > Ball's *Storyteller: Gwillan's Harp and Other Celtic Tales* album, and > "By Water, Castle, Cave and Castle: The Harp in Welsh Folktales", both > coming out in the Summer issue. Am I excited? You betcha! Not to mention > the joys of work and housework 8^( plus gigs as a teller...and being the > site coordinator for the 3rd annual Pennsylvania Storytelling Conference > here in Pittsburgh on May 4th.... You are published?!? I am so jealous!!! Fortunately, as a Champion in Green, envy looks good on me! =) I am so frustrated. I still haven't managed to produce anything publishable except for my article in Comp. Lit. on entry milieux, and that isn't yet ready for submission. Oh well. > Clueless dept.: Will one of you nice people clue me in on what you > mean by ObMisty? I think I know from the contexts in which it's being > used, but want to know for certain. (I told you it's been a loooooong > time!) ObMisty = Obligatory Misty reference. I can't remember who exactly started this (Heather, sweetie, darling, was it you?), but it is a nod to our valiant listmistress, Mel. This way, every posting has a Misty reference. If it doesn't, you just make up something and stick it in to give a veneer of respectability to what might otherwise be just meaningful social dialog. =) ObMisty: We never see the court. I wonder why? Don't the courtiers *do* anything? I know! Misty should write a book centering around a young woman from the provinces, recently come to the court at Havens. And, this time, I think that she should be a good, compassionate, intelligent, brave person and *not* get Chosen! Those Companions are getting on my nerves. Its getting so a person can't do a altruistic thing in Haven without having one of those white walking death-wishes showing up and telling you their name! Sorry, I was just reading the end of BTS, where Misty starts handing out Companions to all her characters like they were party favors. Was it really necessary to have Kero get Chosen? It contributes absolutely nothing to the plot. It think that it falls under the category of "dramatic unnecessity." > Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb I hate to mention this, but love dies. Art fades. Music passes and is lost. We need to treasure these things while they are here, for even these shall pass. The more we treasure them, the longer they will last, but all things must eventually end, and we should love them more for knowing that. (Did I mention that I am in a pensive mood? Did I need to?) May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 09:56:59 +0000 From: Vrondi To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: book lovers Message-ID: <199604220055.UAA06772-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> > You say that you are comprehending what you read faster than me. You say > that you even _think_ faster than me. I find that statement somewhat > offending. Whoa, whoa, whoa, stop here a minute! Some persons' nervous systems process information quicker than others! ok? live with it. If that offends you then just go have a nice little chat with mother nature. It just means that the little bursts of electricity move quicker through some barins than others. Some people just happen to have more neurons than others, and Einstien was found, upon his death, to have more synapses I do believe it was (IIRC) than any brain yet examined! > Am I actually thinking more slow than you because I use longer > time reading a book? Isn't it more likely that I'm simply thinking more > about what I read than you? No, it is not. not when I read a book _very fast_ and am still excited about it and thinking about it a week later! Not when I read a book quickly and still come out feeling as if I've personally known the characters for years! Not when I am visually seeing the entire thing in my mind just as clearly as a real place the entire time! Not when I look up from a quickly consumed book and speak to someone in the _dialect/accent_ of the characters in said book! (and yes I HAVE done this and it makes people freak!) Not when I go through laughter, tears, and all from a well written work! > Again, it seems you think that slower readers like me are simply devoting > more time to the words themselves than you do. Isn't it just as likely > that I'm experiencing the book in another way than you do? You are experiencing the book in no better or worse a fashion than anyone else, but I think the point of the origional post was that if your natural thought processes are relatively quick, then to try and slow down interrupts those thought prosesses! - Vrondi a.k.a. Free Bard Oriole. a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ecstacy and misery have one thing in common- They both _love_ company." -me ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 10:01:22 +0000 From: "Vrondi" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Cover artists Message-ID: <199604220059.UAA06786-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> > I've seen very few fantasy/sci-fi books where the cover gave me a feeling > that the artist read the book I know what you mean. Have you seen the Science Fiction Bookclub's omnibus "Bedlam's Bard" ? It's horrid! Beth, Eric, Kory,all look yuck! I mean, Kory was supposed to be a Hunk! and Eric played _flute_ not _recorder_!! - Vrondi a.k.a. Free Bard Oriole. a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ecstacy and misery have one thing in common- They both _love_ company." -me ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 494 *********************************