MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 507 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Of Drawbridges and Cover Art by AliFarr-+AT+-aol.com 2) Re: your mail -Reply by adowd-+AT+-brynmawr.edu 3) Re: Tech Level on Velgarth by "David.Barber" 4) Re: Leareth by Tammy Harris 5) Re: S&S IV by Tammy Harris 6) MA Pierce, (was Re: Cover artists) by Tammy Harris 7) Re: Cover artists by kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah M Postrech) 8) Re: Heinlein by Tammy Bender 9) Re: your mail -Reply by Tammy Bender 10) Re: book lovers by A giant telepathic squid 11) Re: Arthur by McCaffrey's White Dragon 12) re:scifi (was Re: Star Wars ) by "Diana L. Heald" 13) Re: Talking Companions by McCaffrey's White Dragon 14) Re: Star Wars by Tammy Harris 15) Disabled/Handicapped on Velgarth by "Stormcloud" 16) Re: Cover art by "Stormcloud" 17) Re: Second winds book... by "Stormcloud" 18) Re: Cover artists by "Stormcloud" 19) Goddess, was Re: Rolan, MOC, soulbonds, etc... by Birgit Hanel 20) Re: companions dying by Birgit Hanel 21) Re: Second winds book... by Wildfire 22) Re: Cover artists by "Stormcloud" 23) Re: Tantras/ reincarnation(s)? by Wildfire 24) Re: Second winds book... by Wildfire 25) Re: The Birdcage (off-topic) by "Stormcloud" 26) Cover Art and Heinlein by AliFarr-+AT+-aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 14:20:38 -0400 From: AliFarr-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Of Drawbridges and Cover Art Message-ID: <960424142037_198065823-+AT+-emout07.mail.aol.com> Sorry, I lost who wrote: >There's been a bit of talk about cover art, and if it's accurate or >not. Now those of you who love the picture on MPrice, don't take this >wrong. I love the pictures as much as you, but has anyone noticed that >although using magic bleaches one's hair white, and it is often pointed >out that Vanyel's hair is white, on both the cover of MPromise & >MPrice, he has totally black hair? Jody Lee didn't seem to pay too >much attention to the details (IMHO). It always seemed to me that if Jody Lee was going to do all the cover art for ML books that she would at least take time to either ask Misty for accurate descriptive passages or read the books. I haven't seen my LHM in a year (friends should not take that long with a book) but the Winds and Arrows covers are so inaccurate. As a horse person, I tend to look at the Companions as much as their Heralds: Gwena is wearing a bit in her mouth on one cover, on another she is shown in a curb hackamore, which I suppose would be okay if such a thing existed and the representations of the Heralds saddles are such that the Heralds are completely off balance and would have very sore butts after the first hour in the saddle. Also, why is Elspeth leading an army in a uniform that has no evidence of Herald's Whites about it? IMHO the Storm Covers are better, but the size of the firecats seems off???? >Gene wrote: - >I was wondering if anyone besides myself thought it odd that Natoli and Co. >were trying to come up with a design to let masted ships move more easily >on waterways when the only mention that I remember to boats bigger than the >usual family fishing boats is the pirate raiding that comes up in Council >and Talia helps deal with. (I'm talking about Valdemar now, I know the Heighlei >?sp? had large ships) Is the lack of mention just one of those things where >since everybody is used to it it's taken for granted? I mean the only large >body of water bordering Valdemar is Lake Evendim and even that hasn't been >on Valdemar's borders for too long. (i.e. the border was quite a bit east >of there in Vanyel's time) >From Storm Warning, it appears that the Terilee River is of sufficient size that fording it is not a possibility if the bridge is out. Since it is less than an hour's ride from Haven, it appears that shipping along the river is pretty active and drawbridges would be of assistance in quickening the movement of river traffic. AliFarr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 14:23:30 -0400 From: adowd-+AT+-brynmawr.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: your mail -Reply Message-ID: On Wednesday, April 24, Robbie Betts said: >To Sail Beyond the Sunset is sexist in parts. > >BUT you have to remember the TIME PERIOD it was >"remembered" in. The early, early 20s and 30s. >That time period was not only sexist, women did >not have the right to vote. It is more "historical >biography" than anything else. In America, women got the right to vote in 1920. In England, it was even earlier. So if it was set it the 20s and 30s, women DID have the right to vote. Unless you mean the 1820s. Or maybe _To Sail Beyond the Sunset_ is an alternate history book. I don't know; I've never read it. In fact, the only book by Heinlein that I have read is _Friday_. One thing really bothered me about that book. The main character (her name IS Friday, isn't it? It's been 5 or 6 years since I read it, and my memory is a little foggy.) gets raped at the beginning and, although she certainly doesn't like it, she doesn't really seem to mind it too much. And later on, she falls in love with one of her rapists! Come on. I don't put up with that kind of crap in romance novels, and I'm not gonna put up with it in science fiction. --Aimee **************************************************************************** ***** *"Living is dancing and you are the dancer, * "Outside of a dog a book is man's* *within you the answer if only you'll dare." * best friend. Inside of a dog * * * it's too dark to read!" * * --- Mercedes Lackey, "Dream Rider." * --Groucho Marx * **************************************************************************** ***** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 19:35:37 +0100 (BST) From: "David.Barber" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tech Level on Velgarth Message-ID: siege engines? i think would be described as a device or mechanism used in a siege, to end or help end the seige so catapults, ballista and seige towers would count as would battering rams if their were the type that were partially enclosed in a wheeled frame that provided protection from the top and side and the ram was suspended by chains from the inside top of the frame, so that people inside would push the frame against the door, then swing the ram backwards then push it into the door. now that there's griffens in haven, will the engineers start studying them, to develope flying machines? davey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 13:37:36 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Leareth Message-ID: <1DB8E99543E-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> On Wed, April 24, Lord Wurm wrote: > Also, Ma'ar takes over the body of a younger, living mage, correct? In > V&H, OathBound, when Kethry's body is changed with Lastel's, she explains > she couldn't really use magic because the body wasn't gifted, or at least > not enough. Wouldn't this limit Ma'ar's power hugely since there isn't > anyone as powerful as he was?(?) IIRC, when Ma'ar created his little hidey-hole and set up the spell that allowed him to take over the body of a direct descendent, the spell specified that it be a mage-gifted body. In fact, the 'trigger' that allowed him access was when the poor victim attempted the spell to call fire. Anyway, Ma'ar/Falconsbane used a lot of blood magery, which does not require the mage gift. That's MO, for what it's worth! Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 13:40:22 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: S&S IV Message-ID: <1DB9A975F38-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> Heyla! David Tiffany and Heather Watson commented that they couldn't find Sword and Sorceress IV. Have you checked to see if your bookstore can order it? III is out of print, but I *thought* that IV was still available. I could be wrong, though...... Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 13:46:03 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: MA Pierce, (was Re: Cover artists) Message-ID: <1DBB2A746D7-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> On Wed, 24 Apr 1996, Lady Jaguar wrote: > I'm also looking for the > Darkangel Trilogy, by Meredith Ann Pierce, which I'm told is damnably > hard to find. Has anyone read them? I've read the first one, and have the second one. FWIW, I enjoyed it enough to try to find the rest, but on the other hand, it's still in a pile of other books I have yet to read. Gotta' love those used bookstores! Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 12:10:35 -0700 From: kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah M Postrech) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Cover artists Message-ID: <199604241910.MAA26056-+AT+-dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> >> There's been a bit of talk about cover art, and if it's accurate or >> not. Now those of you who love the picture on MPrice, don't take this >> wrong. I love the pictures as much as you, but has anyone noticed that >> although using magic bleaches one's hair white, and it is often pointed >> out that Vanyel's hair is white, on both the cover of MPromise & >> MPrice, he has totally black hair? Jody Lee didn't seem to pay too >> much attention to the details (IMHO). > >I know, that drove me nuts too, but a least he wasn't a huge muscle >bound blonde! He looked more like he was described in the books than >some covers have! I still think the covers were backwards anyway. :) > > >-+AT+->--- >Stormcloud In the name I agree totally. I've seen some books that show you a picture, and when you read it, you think the cover got mixed up with another book. Almost all of Jody Lee's artwork is a good depiction of the characters, despite a few discrepincies. The thing that annoys me most about it is that since I saw Vanyel on the cover with black hair, I can't seem to picture him with white. :) Lady Bard Kadessa of Heilmarsh Keep "Life is like a journey, who knows when it ends..." e-mail address: Kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com Windfoenix-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 14:22:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Tammy Bender To: Rozanna McNeer Cc: vanyel.herald.co.uk!mercedes-lackey-+AT+-enterprise.cistron.nl Subject: Re: Heinlein Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Apr 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote: > Spider Robinson does it blatantly! If Misty uses the word "grok" > we'll know for sure. . . By the way, I was recommending Heinlein to A friend recommended Spider Robinson to me and I'd planned on getting something by him, and now I know I will!:) I could be wrong but I _think_ I remember seeing 'grok' in _Children of the Night_. > somebody on the list and I've remembered the book's name (but not > yours, so sorry :( To Sail Beyond the Sunset (Maureen is *not* > submissive! read the divorce scene!) Also read Friday! Not in the least. When I grow up I wanna be just like her;) Friday's one of my favorites. She's one tough cookie! Tammy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 14:33:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Tammy Bender To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: your mail -Reply Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Apr 1996, Robbie Betts wrote: > To Sail Beyond the Sunset is sexist in parts. > > BUT you have to remember the TIME PERIOD it was > "remembered" in. The early, early 20s and 30s. > That time period was not only sexist, women did > not have the right to vote. It is more "historical > biography" than anything else. That I'll agree with. Maureen, however, was far from being the typical female of the time. She put on an outward facade of being what 'a proper young matron' should be, all the while doing _exactly_ as she pleased. I think the way Heinlein handled Maureen's character speaks volumes for his attitude about sexism. Maureen did everything any man in her culture did, she just didn't always do it openly, and she often did it better than the men too. I see some parallels between Talia and Maureen. Talia was a bit unusual too, for the Holderkin society, where the girls weren't even taught to read. She didn't let that stop her, but she couldn't always do things openly, (i.e. learning how to use a bow, secretly, from her brother). Tammy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 14:56:37 -0400 (EDT) From: A giant telepathic squid To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: book lovers Message-ID: (Advance apology for the one-liner): Can we PLEASE drop the reading speed thing now? As someone (Cennydd? Kerry?) (I delete too soon) said, it doesn't look like we're ever going to agree with each other, and it's starting to get insulting. Becky -------------- When angry, count ten. When very angry, swear. -- Mark Twain This is the kind of zany place where you would flirt with your husband's wife. -- My modern drama prof. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT) From: McCaffrey's White Dragon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Arthur Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > ObMisty: Excalibur, the singing sword of Rethwellan (sp?), anyone else > notice a connection? Yes it is a very vague one, but still, does the > singing sword have a name? Maybe it's name is Excalibur, whoa, deep > thought. IIRC, Excalibur and one other sword were forged from the same block of metal or whatever. The other sword was called the singing sword and was weilded by Prince Valliant. This comes from an animated version of the stories, so please excuse any inaccuracies. /\\,/\\, LEMUR!-==UDIC==-!RUMEL /| || || cCaffrey's White Dragon Still talking to that White Coconut! || || || | ||=|= || |Thus the theory states that, not only does Gyrfalcon have rocks ~|| || || |in his head, but evil ones at that!!!!!****%%%~~<---look 5! |, \\,\\,|4* 3% 2~ & A Partridge In A Pear Tree) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 15:47:45 EST From: "Diana L. Heald" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re:scifi (was Re: Star Wars ) Message-ID: > Um. I hate to say this but I've been reading Science Fiction and Fantasy > since I was 8 yrs old (stealing my elder sibs books back then) and I > can't stand the term SF. i find it stuck-up and snobbish, like people who > tell me that if I were a REAL Star Trek fan I'd say trekker not trekie > (I've been watching Trek since '67.) I personally always use sci-fi and > trekie just to irritate such people. Sorry, pet peeve! > I would say that I've probably been reading SF since about that time. I was 10 before I realized it was SF. By then I was hooked. I don't care what it is called, I enjoy the genre - whether it is fiction or fantasy or a combination. I tell people that I enjoy good science fiction and and Star Trek is good science fiction but I am not a trekkie or trekker or anything like that. I don't collect the paraphanalia (sp?) or watch each episode 15 times. I have a life above and beyond this. There are tooooo many new things to see and do and read to do the same thing over and over. So much for that soap box. > OB Misty: Are there lawyers in Valdemar or are they afraid to appear > around Companions because thier evil might be noticed? I hadn't thought about that (joke or not) but I do remember the heralds being judges on their circuits. Diana *********************************************************** Diana L. Heald Syracuse University Email: dlheald-+AT+-ais.syr.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT) From: McCaffrey's White Dragon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talking Companions Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Apr 1996, Heather Watson wrote: > Maybe in that one intense moment of bonding, you're so close to the mind > of your Companion that you can't *help* but hear each other. > OK, I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but... In MPrice, Yfandes mindspeaks Stefan. 'Fandes reveals that ALL companions can talk to ANYONE they wish, they just don't and keep it a secret, like the fact that they're all mages. Kay? /\\,/\\, LEMUR!-==UDIC==-!RUMEL /| || || cCaffrey's White Dragon Still talking to that White Coconut! || || || | ||=|= || |Thus the theory states that, not only does Gyrfalcon have rocks ~|| || || |in his head, but evil ones at that!!!!!****%%%~~<---look 5! |, \\,\\,|4* 3% 2~ & A Partridge In A Pear Tree) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 15:17:45 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Star Wars Message-ID: <1DD3A0228E1-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> On Wed, April 24, Cennydd wrote: > As I mentioned (and I am stilling looking for my copy > of the paper with the analysis), there is an excellent analysis of SW as > a mytho-poetic transformation of the WoO, where both stories are > considered to be examples of a rite-of-passage quest. I think that, if > you wanted to claim that SW was a c&i story, you would need to identify > the exact definition of a C&I story (particularly the features that > distinguish it from other genres) and then show that SW had these same > features, in the same structural configuration within the text. Or, you could find the place where George Lucas *said* that's what it was. (In fact, I may (emphasis on may) have it at home, and more importantly, be able to find it.) I think that if the man himself says that's what he based it on, we've got to take him at his word. Sure, it's a quest, right-of-passage type of story as well. Lucas is really into mythic themes, archetypes, etc. He's a big admirer of the late Joseph Campbell, and it's possible to see his [Campbell's] influence on Lucas's work. A lot of his movies include archetypes layered on archetypes, it's part what makes them universal, and so well loved, IMO (well, okay, that and Harrison Ford!) In an entirely different post, Vrondi wrote: > oh, oh, oh, oh! they're re-releasing it to theatres?!?! > when?cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yep! They're re-releasing the whole trilogy in '97, for the twentieth anniversary of the original release. (And how many of us actually saw SW in a theater when it was originally realeased?) Anyway, they're adding some new footage, and some stuff that was cut out the first time. New effects, too. I think (don't quote me on this) that SW-A New Hope will include a scene with Jabba, though not the one they used and cut first time around (gotta' make it look like ROTJ). I can't remember off-hand what else, but if anyone *really* wants to know, send me a private e-mail, and I'll dig up the info. (Oh, can you tell--the other list I'm on has to do with Star Wars!) I just realized how long this posts has become. Okay, so I get carried away with SW! I'll go away now. Wind to thy Wings, Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 16:31:41 EST From: "Stormcloud" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Disabled/Handicapped on Velgarth Message-ID: <187C00B2430-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU> > Hmm, ObMisty: There are no charismatic short people in Valdemar. > Now that I think about it, I don't remember seeing any disabled or > handicapped people, maybe except for Jadus (AotQ?). > Khenta Blaufalk Hmmm. . . what about that guy sent to escort Ulrich and Karal. He had something wrong with him, IIRC. -+AT+->--- Stormcloud In the name One in Black of the Moon Jenna, the Misty maniac I'll punish you! jwil3969-+AT+-simcl.stjohns.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 16:47:55 EST From: "Stormcloud" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Cover art Message-ID: <1880519151E-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU> Heather (HTH) wrote: > As for Vanyel's hair, it had some silver in it, but it was *never* > totally silver/white like so many of the Tayledras mages' hair. I know > this because Stefen remarks when he first meets Vanyel in person that > it's hard to judge his age, and mentions the touches of silver in his > black hair. Now, granted, his hair in the MPrice picture is all black. > But I expect the publisher was trying to market to a youngish audience > and didn't want it to look like the main character was an Old Guy. But several times, IIRC, someone does not recognize him as a young man when they see him from the back, implying his hair was fully bleached, at least toward the end. I think in the rape scene, that boy (Damon? Can't remember) thinks he's an old man they raise his head. -+AT+->--- Stormcloud In the name One in Black of the Moon Jenna, the Misty maniac I'll punish you! jwil3969-+AT+-simcl.stjohns.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 16:50:22 EST From: "Stormcloud" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Second winds book... Message-ID: <1880FAB61E1-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU> Monolith said: > It just seemed weird to me that Gwena would correct > herself about this. I understand HOW Gwena knew, I just don't get why > she hesitated in the middle of Savil's name (and why Misty misspelled it) Elspeth and the lot aren't supposed to KNOW Sayvil the Companion was Savil the Herald-Mage, that's why she corrects herself, I think. -+AT+->--- Stormcloud In the name One in Black of the Moon Jenna, the Misty maniac I'll punish you! jwil3969-+AT+-simcl.stjohns.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 16:53:15 EST From: "Stormcloud" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Cover artists Message-ID: <1881BA223F1-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU> > I may be wrong (it's happened once), but I thought that it was only the > *Tayledras* magic/way of using magic that turned the hair white, not just > any old magic ...................? > > ---Chelsae I think it's using nodes that does it, and not any old mage knows about them. I don't even think the Herald-Mages knew until Savil met Starwind and Moondance. I think node magic is the Tayledras way of using magic, and that's why the Tayledras bleach. I remember a reference that even scouts/nonGifted bleach in the Vales because of all the magic power. So it's not just being a mage that makes you bleach, but being around node-power. -+AT+->--- Stormcloud In the name One in Black of the Moon Jenna, the Misty maniac I'll punish you! jwil3969-+AT+-simcl.stjohns.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 20:59:55 +0200 (METDST) From: Birgit Hanel To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Goddess, was Re: Rolan, MOC, soulbonds, etc... Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, Rossinyol wrote: > On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, McCaffrey's White Dragon wrote: > > > I don't mean to imply that the Stary-eyed, or any other specific god or > > goddess, sent the companions. For all we know, the spirit of Urtho has > > been watching over Valdemar. But because we don't know what power sent > > the companions, I just use a generic term. The reason I use "goddess" > > rather than "god" is that it seems to carry a more appropriate > > connotation. > > What sort of connotation would this be? I hate to say this, but > "goddess" in normal conversation has very negative connotations for me. > Amber and Saffron. I think that since we don't know whether a god, > goddess or cabal of the aforementioned is responsible for the gift of the > Companions, it would be much better to just call them Powers (which is > the choice made in the text, IIRC). Well, but the people of Valdemar seem to worship the goddess Astera. So McC's White Dragon wouldn't be *that* wrong. Bis denne Khenta Blaufalk, unaffiliated ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 19:54:54 +0200 (METDST) From: Birgit Hanel To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: companions dying Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Apr 1996 dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl wrote: > herald dies - they're Guardian spirits after all, they'll simply vacate > their physical form and follow their herald to the Havens for a spot > of truth telling (like "well we're not allowed to tell you we're heralds, > honest". If the situation demands that they hang around for a while (if, Just something that occured to me: Are the Companions really *aware* that they once were Heralds? They may be able to remember some skills they used to have in their human form (eg like Sayvil having knowledge about magic from her live as Savil), but do they really remember their past life, the persons they used to be, who their friends were, their family , how they died and all that? IIRC we don't see any evidence for that. But neither for the contrary. I fancy that they do have some (however basic) innate (sp?) knowledge, but that they don't remember their actual, individual past; eg like it was with Stefen: he didn't remember that he once was 'Lendel, but he knew things which he couldn't have learned in his present life. I hope I phrased this right so that it makes some sense. Any comments and arguments (be it pro or con) very welcome. Bis denne Khenta Blaufalk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 17:13:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Wildfire To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Second winds book... Message-ID: Heyla everyone! I've only joined this list recently - been lurking around mostly...I think this is my third post, actually... I don't think I've properly introduced myself yet, so here goes... I'm from Singapore, but am currently studying at the University of Rochester, NY. Am a music and math double major, 21 years old, a senior (graduating in a month's time, thank the gods!)...lessee...what else? I got started on Misty when my brother borrowed AotQ from our library - since I'm the type that's always reluctant to try "new stuff", he had to practically FORCE me to read it, but once I started, like a chapter into AotQ, and I was hooked. That was years ago... I don't know if I can call myself a true Misty fan 'cos I've only liked her Velgarth series, and even then mainly the LHM and AotQ trilogies. But *those* I can read and reread, again and again, and I still cry/laugh/whatever at certain passages even after multiple readings. OK. Intro done, I'd like to ask: is there a bloopers list kept by anyone? I remember reading MPromise and MPrice the other day and stumbling upon 2 things which do not look quite right: In MPromise, after Vanyel was told about Jaysen's death by Tantras, he replied that he knew it, but didn't know how Jaysen died (his words were, I think, "he never told me how" or something like that (to quote some of you on the list, me-+AT+-school, books-+AT+-home :-) )) My question is, of course, why didn't Tantras show any surprise at that. And in MPrice, isn't Van supposed to be the Northern Guardian? Yet at some point I remember reading a reference to him as the Eastern Guardian. Or am I just imagining things?? One other thing... On Wed, 24 Apr 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote: > Kadessa wrote: > > > > >Did anyone notice who Kris's Companion was? That was why I was (and > > >still, a little) upset about Kris's death. Tran deserved to live! > > > One thing I did notice one time was that there was another reference to > > a Companion that was named some version of Tantras, other than Kris's > > Tantris. > > Keren and Teren have twin Companions named Dantris and Tantris Hmmm...I've never noticed the name of Teren's Companion. Uh...so which one is Tantras, d'you think? Wind to thy wings, all... Wildfire ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 17:23:00 EST From: "Stormcloud" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Cover artists Message-ID: <1889A8A4169-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU> Lady Jaguar wrote: > I'm also looking for the > Darkangel Trilogy, by Meredith Ann Pierce, which I'm told is damnably > hard to find. Has anyone read them? I have the trilogy in an omnibus that my father borrowed from someone at work who was then fired and never asked for it back. SO technically it is not mine, but I don't think the guy's going to come get it. Anyway, to get back to the point, yes I've read it. It was pretty good, although I have read better. I haven't read it in a long time, though, so don't ask me any specifics. -+AT+->--- Stormcloud In the name One in Black of the Moon Jenna, the Misty maniac I'll punish you! jwil3969-+AT+-simcl.stjohns.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 17:19:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Wildfire To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tantras/ reincarnation(s)? Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Apr 1996 EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org wrote: > Kadessa asked about the reference to another Companion, besides Kris' > Tantris that seemed to be a version of Tantras. I think you're referring > to Ylsa's Dantris. No no! Ylsa's Companion is Felara - who has the most endurance and fastest speed after Rolan, which is why Ylsa is a Special Messenger. (Didn't the name Felar appear somewhere though?) Dantris is Keren's Companion. Wind to thy wings, Wildfire > > Which raises the interesting question of whether or not one Herald can > become two Companions at the same time? > > My brain hurts! > > Yoicks! and Away! > > Cindy > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 17:24:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Wildfire To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Second winds book... Message-ID: Heyla again! On Wed, 24 Apr 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote: > Kadessa wrote: > > > > >Did anyone notice who Kris's Companion was? That was why I was (and > > >still, a little) upset about Kris's death. Tran deserved to live! > > > One thing I did notice one time was that there was another reference to > > a Companion that was named some version of Tantras, other than Kris's > > Tantris. > > Keren and Teren have twin Companions named Dantris and Tantris I just replied to this in a previous mail asking which one y'all think is Tantras, but the more I think about it, the more I am certain I've never noticed Teren's Companion being named as Tantris. Can you tell me where you picked this up please? Thanks! Peace, Wildfire ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 17:29:59 EST From: "Stormcloud" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Birdcage (off-topic) Message-ID: <188B828231D-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU> > On Wednesday, April 24, Heather said: > > > Okay, now that the public has decided there need not be mass rioting > >in the streets if Hollywood makes a movie about gay men, the next step > >is to make a movie about gay men where they actually get to *kiss.* I It wasn't really a movie, but Tales of the City was awesome! I love Mona and Mouse! -+AT+->--- Stormcloud In the name One in Black of the Moon Jenna, the Misty maniac I'll punish you! jwil3969-+AT+-simcl.stjohns.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 17:24:42 -0400 From: AliFarr-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Cover Art and Heinlein Message-ID: <960424172441_477435575-+AT+-emout17.mail.aol.com> >On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, Leah M Postrech wrote: > not. Now those of you who love the picture on MPrice, don't take this > wrong. I love the pictures as much as you, but has anyone noticed that > although using magic bleaches one's hair white, and it is often pointed > out that Vanyel's hair is white, on both the cover of MPromise & > MPrice, he has totally black hair? Jody Lee didn't seem to pay too > much attention to the details (IMHO). >I thought that Van had a *little* white hair on the cover of MPrice, and >it is also mentioned that Van was very resistant to the bleaching >effect. Maybe all the white hair is on the other side of his head? :) Actually, it seemed to me that if Jody Lee was going to get the contract for all the cover art, she should at least get descriptions from Misty or read the books. The Arrows covers are ok - most of my irritation on them stems from the depiction of those god-awful, unbalanced, uncomfortable saddles. Winds cover are worse. Took me a year to decide if it was Dawnfire or Darwind on the cover with Elspeth. Gwena is wearing a snaffle bit on one and a curb bit on the other, nothing like Misty's fitted halter/hackamore description. Finally, what is Elspeth wearing on the cover of Book 3? Ain't whites....... >On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, Diana L. Heald wrote: Actually, I believe it was Mage of Green Silence who wrote this, to give credit where credit is due, especially 'cause I'm gonna disagree with him too! > > Don't *EVEN* get me started! Heinlien is the most pathetically > > misogynistic, chauvinistic emotionally stunted writer that ever walked > > the face of the earth. OK, maybe not the absolutely most...but in the > > top 10! His societies are the most pathetic, adolescent-pipe-dream > > fantasies of women who are never more than compliant, eternally > > submissive, promiscous sex kittens! I mean I know a few boys who would > > have these fantasies, but I don't know any healthy, emotionally > > well-adjusted men who would. Oh well, what do you expect from a dinosaur? >I very much disagree with your assessment of Mr. Heinlein's writing. Not >only was he an extremely literate man and writer, he was a very _good_ >one. His attention to detail is hard to rival. I've read much of his work >and enjoy it immensely, _because_ of his female characters. They are >strong, intelligent, able to take care of themselves and not afraid to >work in their relationships with their husbands. (Who are often >pig-headed and not exactly easy to deal with.) They are also proud to be >mothers and wives, in addition to their other accomplishments, something I> think is often sadly lacking in our society. Perhaps it's this 'mother' >quality that you object to, and find so misogynistic? Or perhaps it's >simply the fact that they actually _enjoy_ sex? Show me one example of a '>submissive' women in one of Heinlein's novels and I'll show you 10 of >strong women in equal partnership or a position above the corresponding >male characters. > You shouldn't speak so ill of the dead. I agree with most of this, > but you have to remember that he was writing, for the most part, for > adolescent males. This is what his publisher wanted and got. Some > of his later books were more gender balanced (I loved Friday) but > still more than a little weird. >His juvenile novels were indeed written for young adults, and seldom had >even a hint of sex in them. Mostly younsters and space. His later novels, >written for adults, such as Friday, do have some strange ideas, by the >standards of our culture anyway. Keep in mind he was writing >_speculative_ fiction. I think he purposely wrote about strange ideas to >make his readers think. Actually, I know that's the case. What _would_ it >be like to live in a society that had few sexual taboos because they >didn't put such moral emphasis on it that _everything_ outside of the i>deas of the 'moral majority' was considered wrong or abnormal? >ObMisty: Has anyone noticed the little catch phrases in several of >Misty's novels (Especially the Diana Tregarde stories) that seem to >indicate she might be a Heinlein fan or at least has read more than one >of his novels? >Tammy Couldn't have said it better, so I won't. I agree completely. Yes, I do agree that Misty must be a Heinlein fan. Their world views and expectations of "moral" behavior are so alike. I grew up on Heinlein, before there was Misty and incorporated much of his world view into my own. When I found Misty, it was a case of immediate kindred spirits. Whenever I want a "comfy" book to read its almost always Misty, Heinlein or MZB. I wrote: >This reminded me of a thought I had while re-reading Winds. When Misty >writes the story of how Talia finally passes on, I don't think I'm going to >be able to read it. Too many tears in my eyes. By Elspeth's words, Talia >will die before one of the twins takes the throne. > >AliFarr and Kadessa asked: >Where was this?! Please tell me! I don't really remember anything of >this nature. (Of course, it's been a while since I reread Winds) I >agree with you totally, I'm definately going to need a huge box of >tissues when I read the book of Talia's passing on. She's on of my >favorite characters! I was re-reading where Elspeth's Foresight tells her she won't rule and Kris will be King and his sister (can't remember name) will be King's Own. This implies that Talia won't be MO for Kris and will die somehow before he comes to rule. Either that, or the sister isn't chosen early and waits for Talia's death to bond to Rolan. Or they do the partial bond thing, which in concept, I hate, and can't find an acceptable way thru. >> Not a flame but, I disagree. >> David Tiffany >You are certainly entitled to do so. However, I stand by my opinion. I >just started to re-read "To Sail Beyond the Sunset" and couldn't. It is >just too sexist and offensive. I would love to hear why/how you think >that Heinlein is not sexist, though. >May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, >Cennydd, I love that book, and I don't find it sexist at all. Heinlein does not draw "real" characters, his are all larger than life, with certain personality traits magnified; women are "strongly" women, the same with men. Do you find it sexist that the women appear to be submissive to the men, then go do exactly what they were planning anyway? That's life, as I and every other female I know understand it! (We just don't shove men's faces in it, because it tends to upset them!) Maybe it will be different for my daughter, but I'm not holding my breath!!!! AliFarr ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 507 *********************************