MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 509 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Star Wars by Rosario Holsen-Baker 2) Re: reading speed by ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg (Lady Windsong) 3) re: Heinlein by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 4) Re: book lovers by ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg (Lady Windsong) 5) Re: Star Wars by Heather Watson 6) companions remembering by Robbie Betts 7) Re: Tantras/ reincarnation(s)? by ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg (Lady Windsong) 8) Re: Mage vs Adept -Reply by Robbie Betts 9) Good News!!!!! by "Stormcloud" 10) Re: Tantras/ reincarnation(s)? by Marissa K Lingen 11) Re: book lovers by Becky Anne Christensen 12) Re: Tantras/ reincarnation(s)? by EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org 13) Re: Cover artists by Lady Wintersong 14) Singaporeans (off-topic) by Lady Wintersong 15) Re: Cover Art by Lady Wintersong 16) Re: uh, a couple of things, i guess by "sean collins" 17) Re: Tech Level on Velgarth by blades-+AT+-sover.net (Matthew Gorsky) 18) Re: Rolan, MOC, soulbonds, etc... by blades-+AT+-sover.net (Matthew Gorsky) 19) Re: star wars, marriage by adowd-+AT+-brynmawr.edu 20) Re: your mail -Reply by adowd-+AT+-brynmawr.edu 21) Birdcage. by STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 22) GOODBYE by STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 23) Re: Cover artists by "sean collins" 24) Drawbridges by Gene 25) re: language by Sandra K Haas 26) Creators (was Re: Star wars) by cscd3150121-+AT+-ewu.edu 27) Re: Talking Companions by EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org 28) Re: Stuff by "Vrondi" 29) Vanyel's age, was: Re: Leareth by Birgit Hanel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 08:10:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Star Wars Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, Cennydd wrote: > I did! I did! I saw it 16 times in its first run in the theatres. I > will never forget that first scene, with the imperial cruiser chasing the > little Alliance ship. *That* was the moment when sci-fi in the cinema > changed forever! > Are you sure it wasn't a shoe with paper wings taped on that was chasing the little Alliance ship? :) Actually, I just got an e-mail from my boyfriend saying that not only are there flying shoes going across the screen, there are also wads of gum. Hang on while I get evidence and specifics.... "I was watching the ROTJ Laserdisc Supplemental materials the other day, and Ken Ralston mentioned this: (paraphrased): 'At the start of the space battle, there is a tremendous fleet of ships. The Millennium Falcon flies by, and there's TIE ships after him and in these shots in the background, there are photographs of one of my old tennis shoes used more than once and wads of gum ...'. Well, the scene he is speking of is right after the rebels realize the shield is still up on the Death Star. Later, Lando says over the intercom: "Fighters coming in!". The fighters shoot past the Falcon, then we see the Death Star in the background as the Falcon rushes towards the camera. The shoe(s) and the wads of gum are in the background on the left side of the screen in the letterbox edition (they can't be readily seen in Pan and Scan). The problem is, it goes by so fast and there are so many ships, they are difficult to see." *****LADY JAGUAR***** Leader of the Cat People Lady in Green LGMCB Conspirator #13, DHTBB Lobe #3! "If you want someone to love you, open your heart. If you want someone obsessed with you, close it." ********************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 20:19:31 +0800 (SST) From: ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg (Lady Windsong) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: reading speed Message-ID: <199604251219.UAA11065-+AT+-orchid.singnet.com.sg> > Others read a bit, then stare off into space thinking about what >they have just read and connecting it with other events in the book. (I'm >guilty of that although I normally manage to finish reading way before the >teacher says stop & discuss, in class) > >Just my $0.02 worth > >Zhai'helleva, > >Lady Wintersong >An Honourable Lady In Green >Cecilia (ckwok-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg) > Yes, I'm guilty of that one. I read something, realise that it has a connection to something else in the book, and stare at nothing in paticular until I get the connection. Then I go "oh,i see" and manage to irritate everyone around me in the process, and go on with it. Does anyone else do this? or am I the odd one out?(whimper) Wind to thy wings all, Lady Windsong One of the Ladies in Green ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 96 14:19:31 +0200 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Heinlein Message-ID: <9604251219.AA06532-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> I know this is an ML list, and a lot has been said about mhr. Heinlein already, but I wanted to add my 2 pennies worth. I read a lot of his kiddie stuff when I was a kiddie, and generally enjoyed it - all good clean escapist stuff, even if he did tend to have mostly heroes and no heroines. But, his adult books leave me with a slight sense of distaste. It's hard to pin down why, so here's what I've come up with: * in Time enough for Love, in 2 instances he is fully involved in the raising of a girl child (in the twins case he's their father), with whom he then goes on to have a full sexual relationship with. Call me a hidebound westener, but that bothers me - at what age is it "OK" to start seeing them as a sexual beings? 13? 14? 15? 11? * there are no cases of nubile pubescent boys being lovingly introduced to sex by caring older women - just "old" men and teenagers. Ick. * his views on family life and the raising of children are so rosy they are also ikky. * I also share whoever-it-was's view of Friday's total acceptance of the guy who'd raped her - too close to the "a-woman-doesn't-mean-no-when- she-says-no-", and the "all-she-needs-is-a-proper-man-inside-her" schools of thought * he trivialises sex - again - maybe it's my english morals again, but I don't like the way sex is reduced to the level of sharing a bottle of wine - the same with everyone be they trusted partner or some casual pickup, and something to pass an otherwise boring evening with. * I used to think I will Fear no Evil was a "neat" book, I re-read it recently and was appalled - it's a dreadful, book - and full of sexist stereo-typing. * yes his women are independent characters, but not as ML's women are strong - his don't ring true - he makes them "strong " by having them behave like men, (or resort to quivering lips and tear drenched eyes) whereas ML's women live by their own set of rules that includes being female (can you imagine Tarma wheedling?). Maybe that's not clear, us scientific types aren't used to this type of thinking. I think I decided that while I'd like to meet ML's characters, could see them as real people, I didn't care for Heinlein's ladies - they were too obviusly characters in a book, and I have no interest in meeting them. If I did I doubt I'd like them, or them me. I also fully ascribe to "Each to his/her own", and realise that no-one is making me read anything, the above is an opinion I felt like offering. ciao, Esmeralda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 20:28:36 +0800 (SST) From: ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg (Lady Windsong) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: book lovers Message-ID: <199604251228.UAA11316-+AT+-orchid.singnet.com.sg> >At 07:13 AM 4/24/96 +0100, Lady Becky wrote: > >>English class, we're reading Lord of the Flies, and I read it much faster >>than the other people in the class, yet I was also one of the few that >>picked up on all the symbolism in the book. How it was also an allegory >>for the book of Genesis. > >Sheeeesh! Do all teachers around the world teach the same things? We are >doing LOTF too and we were relating it to Adam & Eve. What grade wre you in? >I'm in the equivelant of Grade 8, I think. > >By the way, I think my com. is fine again. Hopefully. (Throwing desperate >glance at CPU) > >ObMisty: I assume the Collegium doesn't have exams? Isn't it wonderful? > >Zhai'helleva, > >Lady Wintersong >An Honourable Lady In Green >Cecilia (ckwok-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg) > EEEP! All the teachers around the world are the same!!!!!<---5! I'm in Lady Wintersong's class, so you can conclude that we are doing the same book for lit. Just want to ask, who has read LOTF, and who likes the book? I'm very curious. Wind to thy wings all, Lady Windsong One of the Ladies in Green ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 07:43:37 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Star Wars Message-ID: <25APR96.08345282.0189.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Cennydd, my friend, you have got to lighten up about this! For God's sake, it's a metaphor. If we say "cowboys and Indians," then by golly you expect the Stormtroopers to count coup and the ships to form a circle when attacked. I don't think anyone ever intended it to be quite that literal. It's a figure of speech, meant to conjure up images of high adventure, good v. evil, rogues, heroes, and general swashbuckling, a la the Western genre. It's not textual and film analysis; it exists to give you an idea of what kind of movie this is, and I think it does a fair job. I saw the original SW in theaters, many times, but as I was under two at the time, it was not a major milestone in my life But I was force-fed (no pun intended) science fiction and fantasy in my formative years, which probably explains a lot. (I do remember, *vividly*,watching the slug crawl out of someone's ear in The Wrath of Khan; I've probably been to every Star Trek movie on opening night.) For whoever said this, they aren't making a *remake* of Star Wars. They're spiffying up some of the special effects and adding in a couple of extra scenes. It's going to be the same movie. If you were referring to allusions to the "new movie," maybe you haven't heard: Lucas is working on Part 1 of the sequence (the Star Wars we saw encompasses, as you'll recall from the opening, part 4-6), to be released sometime this century, though God knows exactly when. This after most of us had thoroughly despaired of ever seeing the first and third trilogies. It's all very exciting. It will be interesting to see if this trilogy reflects the same "space opera" style, or if twenty years has worked a major change on Lucas' approach to storytelling and filmmaking. I imagine that what I'm writing in twenty years will be substantially different from what I'm writing now (God, I hope so), reflecting the ways in which I personally have changed as well as the world around me. HTH "We're not alcoholics. We're the authors." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 08:58:20 -0400 From: Robbie Betts To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: companions remembering Message-ID: IIRC the Companion (don't remember his name) who talks with Karal said "It depends on how many times you've been around" in reference to the fact that the Companions are Guardian Spirits. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 21:02:49 +0800 (SST) From: ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg (Lady Windsong) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tantras/ reincarnation(s)? Message-ID: <199604251302.VAA12535-+AT+-orchid.singnet.com.sg> >On Wed, 24 Apr 1996 EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org wrote: > >> Kadessa asked about the reference to another Companion, besides Kris' >> Tantris that seemed to be a version of Tantras. I think you're referring >> to Ylsa's Dantris. > >No no! Ylsa's Companion is Felara - who has the most endurance and >fastest speed after Rolan, which is why Ylsa is a Special Messenger. >(Didn't the name Felar appear somewhere though?) Dantris is Keren's >Companion. > >Wind to thy wings, >Wildfire > > Yes, the name did appear in the LHM. I think that Felar was someone's Companion though, Jaysen's Companion. > >> >> Which raises the interesting question of whether or not one Herald can >> become two Companions at the same time? >> >> My brain hurts! >> >> Yoicks! and Away! >> >> Cindy >> > Wind to thy wings all, Lady Windsong One of the Ladies in Green ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 09:11:46 -0400 From: Robbie Betts To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mage vs Adept -Reply Message-ID: IIRC, Alcar could see the ley lines, and the nodes, but he couldn't use the nodes. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 09:47:12 EST From: "Stormcloud" To: alestr-+AT+-cooper.edu, wake2025-+AT+-mailclerk.ecok.edu, jancivan-+AT+-aol.com, Subject: Good News!!!!! Message-ID: <19901A105F0-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU> I found out yesterday that I am a semi-finalist in the National Library of Poetry's Contest and that my poem will be printed in one of their anthologies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have the name and ISBN at home, and will bring in the information is anyone is interested. I believe the title of the book will be The Running Waters or The Stirring Waters. I'm so happy I can't remember!!!!! Anyway, I know it's not much, but it's my first non-fanzine publication, and so I'm thrilled. I apologize to those of you on the M-L mailing list who may be getting this twice. Also sorry this is a general letter, but I want to tell everyone, and I'm just so happy I can't contain the news. Love you all! XOXOXOXO -+AT+->--- Stormcloud In the name One in Black of the Moon Jenna, the Misty maniac I'll punish you! jwil3969-+AT+-simcl.stjohns.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 08:50:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Marissa K Lingen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tantras/ reincarnation(s)? Message-ID: <199604251350.IAA08767-+AT+-hermes.gac.edu> Perhaps this is a case of repeated names? I mean, we were talking before about how there are multiple Elspeths, etc., etc., so it's not completely out of the question that there would be more than one Herald named Tantras to be reincarnated as a Companion. 'Course, I might have made that up... --Morticia > > You wrote: > > > >Kadessa asked about the reference to another Companion, besides Kris' > >Tantris that seemed to be a version of Tantras. I think you're > referring > >to Ylsa's Dantris. > > > >Which raises the interesting question of whether or not one Herald can > >become two Companions at the same time? > > > >My brain hurts! > > > >Yoicks! and Away! > > > >Cindy > > > > Now I'm confused, too. :) Someone (I forget exactly who and I > apoligize) said that Teren & Keren had twin Companions named Dantris & > Tantris, and now you're saying it was Ylsa who had Dantris. I doubt > that a Herald can be two Companions at one time, because he only has > one spirit. :) As soon as I get a chance, I'm going to check out the > books about ylsa and Dantris and Keren and Teren And Tantris, etc. > (You'd think I'd have more time since I'm on vacation, but with > homework and all, I don't.) Maybe I'll get a chance tonight. :) > > Lady Bard Kadessa oh Heilmarsh Keep > > "Life is like a journey, who knows when it ends..." > > e-mail address: Kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com > Windfoenix-+AT+-aol.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 07:04:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: book lovers Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Apr 1996, Lady Wintersong wrote: > At 07:13 AM 4/24/96 +0100, Lady Becky wrote: > > >English class, we're reading Lord of the Flies, and I read it much faster > >than the other people in the class, yet I was also one of the few that > >picked up on all the symbolism in the book. How it was also an allegory > >for the book of Genesis. > > Sheeeesh! Do all teachers around the world teach the same things? We are > doing LOTF too and we were relating it to Adam & Eve. What grade wre you in? > I'm in the equivelant of Grade 8, I think. > > Lady Wintersong I'm in tenth, the more I thought about it though, it's not just Genesis, it's the whole Bible. The creation of mankind, their struggle, their downfall, and their salvation, it goes throught it all. Wow, what a deep thought, I'm impressed with myself. Lady Becky The more that you read, the more things you will know. The more that you learn, the more places you'll go. --Dr. Suess ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 10:11:45 -0400 (EDT) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tantras/ reincarnation(s)? Message-ID: <960425101145.204d-+AT+-bpl.org> I stand corrected. It was Keren whose companion was Dantris. Ylsa's Companion was Felara, and you can check page 175 (in chapter 7) of Arrows of the Queen for the reffie. (It's at about the point where Ylsa is trying to "read" Talia's injuries after the blues dump her in the river.) Kris' Companion was definitely Tantris (many reffies, but the first page of the first chapter of Arrows Fall is the one I found most easily.) Either way, though, Dantris and Tantris exist in the same time period, so either only one of them is Tantras, or Heralds can split and hand their personality around to more than one Companion. I prefer the former actually, as it is less painful to my poor battered braincells. Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 15:32:25 +0100 From: Lady Wintersong To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Cover artists Message-ID: <9604251432.AA29011-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> At 02:12 AM 4/25/96 +0100, Stormcloud wrote: >all the magic power. So it's not just being a mage that makes you >bleach, but being around node-power. > > I think the non-mages in the Vale have their hair bleached not because of being near node-power but because the Vale is sheilded (or something like that) with very strong magic. To make this not a one-liner, this line has been added. Zhai'helleva, Lady Wintersong An Honourable Lady In Green Cecilia (ckwok-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 15:32:29 +0100 From: Lady Wintersong To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Singaporeans (off-topic) Message-ID: <9604251432.AA29034-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Hi! Just wanted to know, a raise of hands, how many Singaporeans are there on this list? Please respond by private e-mail. I don;t want to flood the list and have Auntie Mel after me. ObMisty: Oh, this is difficult. I can't think of anything. Hmmm... Got it! It's a dumb question but we have to make do. Errm, do they have cows on Velgarth? If not, what do they drink in place of cow's milk? Goat's milk? (Yuck!) Zhai'helleva, Lady Wintersong An Honourable Lady In Green Cecilia (ckwok-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 15:32:38 +0100 From: Lady Wintersong To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Cover Art Message-ID: <9604251432.AA29071-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> At 02:51 AM 4/25/96 +0100, Ali Farr wrote: > Winds cover are worse. Took me a year to decide if it was Dawnfire or >Darwind on the cover with Elspeth. Gwena is wearing a snaffle bit on one and >a curb bit on the other, nothing like Misty's fitted halter/hackamore >description. Finally, what is Elspeth wearing on the cover of Book 3? Ain't >whites....... > > Precisely what I meant. I was saying that Darkwind looked like a woman. I knew it couldn't be Dawnfire 'cos che was't the main character. About the Companions' tack, I think that it isn't really Jody Lee's fault as it is not everybody who knows the difference. To me, they look perfectly fine, except that the Companions always have pink hair. :) Zhai'helleva, Lady Wintersong An Honourable Lady In Green Cecilia (ckwok-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 96 08:22:18 PDT From: "sean collins" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: uh, a couple of things, i guess Message-ID: <9604251527.AA11874-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> REPLY TO 04/24/96 19:13 FROM mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk: uh, a couple of things, i guess Shadowspun in his (sorry in if the sex is wrong!) last message asked where the water in Lake Evendim came from. In a really well built castle there is a spring or a river so that in case of siege the castle would have a water supply. In fact IIRC most of the hills that castles were usually built on were man made. Sean To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 11:30:12 -0400 (EDT) From: blades-+AT+-sover.net (Matthew Gorsky) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tech Level on Velgarth Message-ID: <199604251530.LAA24602-+AT+-maple.sover.net> >Sheep casings as condoms would not be terribly effective and are not the >same as wide-spread, effective birth control. Also, they are not >birth-control for women, but for men. This makes them a bit moot for the >issue at stake. (BTW, did anyone else in the US see a special on >patriarchy that was running on public television [it ran on Monday night, >here]? It was pretty good at showing some of the issues that we have >been discussing, although it did indulge in a lot of male-bashing.) Birth control is birth control, no matter *who* it is for. The person who has it available and does not use it is negligent, period. If there was b/c for females, I don't know and say so openly, however, I belive there to have been. Also It's easier to provide protection from the man, rather easier to protect the woman from the man by covering the head of the penis. If the seminal fluid can not enter the birth canal, then conception cannot occur. It's easier to block the male than to block the female, the male having the easier to reach opening. Also, I did not say it was widespread. Also, when used I believe the sheep casings would be a whole lot more effective than not wearing one. >20% is not a contraceptive. I think that this is probably fairly close >to the chances with unprotected sex (don't know for sure, but I know a >lot of people who seem to take forever to catch, even having unprotected >sex.) 20% is a contraceptive, and I said it was a total W.A.G. as to the figure. I'm sure if you talk to enough herbalists you should be able to come up with something, better yet, I'll ask a bunch I know, you ask a bunch you know, we'll see what we can come up with and share it with everyone. Most drugs no adays come form plants anyway. Thank you for the translation, might I add I agrre whole-heartedly with it's sentiments. Blades ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 11:30:09 -0400 (EDT) From: blades-+AT+-sover.net (Matthew Gorsky) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Rolan, MOC, soulbonds, etc... Message-ID: <199604251530.LAA24590-+AT+-maple.sover.net> >McCaffrey's White Dragon used "goddess" when referring to the power >that sent the Companions, and Cennydd chided him with a lovely bit of >earthy crunchy stuff, so I thought I'd throw in this: > >When we meet Vanyel's ghost in Sorrows (In WoFury), he says (IIRC) >"I am Vanyel Ashkrevon, still in the service of Valdemar and the goddess." > >Textual evidence! Wheeee!! I think MWD just absorbed it, and that's >why goddess felt more appropriate than god when referring to the Power >That Helped Valdemar (tm). Need I point out that Vanyel was a follower of the Starry-eyed since his Oath-swearing to become a Wingsib? So, yes he was in service of the Goddess. But when King Valdemar prayed/cast a *very* powerful spell he called on *all and any dieaty who would listen* Also the Starry-eyed has said in so many words that she did not send the Companions Blades ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 11:32:22 -0400 From: adowd-+AT+-brynmawr.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: star wars, marriage Message-ID: On Thursday, April 25, Cennydd said: >Aimee, if you were a man I would offer to marry you. Such a wonderful >citation of evidence to back up a claim is the sort of thing that goes >right to my head! > >Now why is it that I can't find a guy like Aimee? Surely the men of the >world understand the need for evidence and referencing too? > >=) > >May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, > >Cennydd, > >Mage of the Green Silences. > Aw, gee, thanks! (Blushing deeply.) --Aimee **************************************************************************** ***** *"Living is dancing and you are the dancer, * "Outside of a dog a book is man's* *within you the answer if only you'll dare." * best friend. Inside of a dog * * * it's too dark to read!" * * --- Mercedes Lackey, "Dream Rider." * --Groucho Marx * **************************************************************************** ***** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 11:39:45 -0400 From: adowd-+AT+-brynmawr.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: your mail -Reply Message-ID: On Thursday, April 25, Adrienne York said: >I wasn't going to get involved in this thread!!! I wasn't... > >On Thu, 25 Apr 1996 adowd-+AT+-brynmawr.edu wrote: > >> In fact, the only book by Heinlein that I have read is _Friday_. One >> thing really bothered me about that book. The main character (her name IS >> Friday, isn't it? It's been 5 or 6 years since I read it, and my memory is >> a little foggy.) gets raped at the beginning and, although she certainly >> doesn't like it, she doesn't really seem to mind it too much. And later >> on, she falls in love with one of her rapists! Come on. I don't put up >> with that kind of crap in romance novels, and I'm not gonna put up with it >> in science fiction. > >May I point out that the circumstances surrounding Friday's rape and >subsequent marriage are a trifle different than that of your typical >romance novel heroine? I would imagine that the chances of getting raped >are certainly higher than average for a courier in a large spy ring, and >that Friday had undoubtedly been trained to deal with that sort of >attack and it was not impropable that she'd been raped before. So that's >why she didn't have a huge reaction. >Why did she fall in love with one of her rapists? Well, he was a >"?construct?". What did RAH call people who had been created in vitro? >And so she didn't feel inferior to him because of *that*, which has been >a much bigger issue to her than sex throughout the book. (Yes, I know >that rape is a crime of violence, rather than a sex crime, but sexual >intercourse is the weapon being used, so one's feelings about sex, I >would think but do not know, influence one's reaction to being raped.) >She also realized that he was acting under orders, not through any >personal decision of his own. For someone with the background in the >"Underworld" that Friday had, that might have been enough to excuse his >actions to some degree. I don't know. I'm just pointing out that it's >not the same situation as a "bodice-ripper" novel. >In a bodice-ripper, the heroine's raped because she doesn't feel that she >can morally have sex any other way. The rape is generally a "big step" >in the relationship, signalling a turning point where the hero and >heroine get closer. It's also a point where the hero dominates the >heroine and submits. In _Friday_, Friday stays where she is because >she's locked up and there's four of them and she's still woozy from the >gas. She's not submitting to a damn thing and she's a combination of >bored and disgusted. She's not thrilled or enthralled. And she almost >killed him for it, later. I don't think it drew them any closer >together. That's just imo. (not humble, because I'm not feeling low to >the ground today.) > Yes, everything you said is certainly true. I did read the book a long time ago. Looking back, I think the whole rape thing bothers me more now than it did while I was actually reading the book, although it did bother me then too. Hmmm. I think I'm going to have to go and re-read _Friday_, so I can think about this with the book more clear in my mind. --Aimee **************************************************************************** ***** *"Living is dancing and you are the dancer, * "Outside of a dog a book is man's* *within you the answer if only you'll dare." * best friend. Inside of a dog * * * it's too dark to read!" * * --- Mercedes Lackey, "Dream Rider." * --Groucho Marx * **************************************************************************** ***** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 16:49:54 GMT From: STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Birdcage. Message-ID: <9381416FEC-+AT+-EXCALIBUR.MMU.AC.UK> I SAW BIRD CAGE WITH 7 GAY FRIENDS AND THEY WERE ALL HYSTERICAL WITH LAUGHTER THROUGH IT. HAS ANYONE SEEN "JEFFREY" IT'S ANOTHER GAY FILM WITH PATRICK STEWART IN IT. IT IS EXCELLENT KALEN ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 16:47:20 GMT From: STOKES J <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: GOODBYE Message-ID: <9375FC0C74-+AT+-EXCALIBUR.MMU.AC.UK> AS MY EXAMS ARE STARTING NEXT WEEK I HAVE TO SIGN OFF THIS THIS UNTIL SEPTEMBER. GOODBYE TO ALL, KEEP UP THE HUNT FOR GYRS' MIW. KORENDIL,STORMCLOUD AND ALL OTHER OIB MY BLESSINGS TO YOU KEEP THE CLAN TOGETHER AND MAY YOU ALL PROSPER. ZHAI'HAI'ELLEVA KALEN SHENA VUYSHER'EDRAS [OIB] KAL'ENEDRAL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 96 08:32:32 PDT From: "sean collins" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Cover artists Message-ID: <9604251606.AA21268-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> REPLY TO 04/24/96 18:12 FROM mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk: Re: Cover artists In one of the books (I forget which but I think it may have been Magic's Pawn) it talks about the Tayledras and node magic. It says somewhere that when they took up the task of cleansing the Pelagirs the Goddess changed them so that anyone with the mage gift could use node magic. One of the characters (sorry it is driving me nuts not to have the books where I can look at them!) says that from the beginning of their training all Tayledras use it and that non-mages also end up bleaching do to living in a constant enviroment of node energy. Sean To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 16:10:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Gene To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Drawbridges Message-ID: <01I3YPOXIFOM96YD0J-+AT+-SKISAS.USask.CA> AliFarr-+AT+-aol.com wrote: >From Storm Warning, it appears that the Terilee River is of sufficient size >that fording it is not a possibility if the bridge is out. Since it is less >than an hour's ride from Haven, it appears that shipping along the river is >pretty active and drawbridges would be of assistance in quickening the >movement of river traffic. I had forgotten the fact that this river must have been fairly large or deep and fast, but I still can't remember where there is any mention of shipping along the river. Wouldn't the fact that there is a permanent bridge across the river indicate that goods are shipped across the river or along the river in boats without masts (i.e. no larger than say, a york boat -- 10m or 35 ft long with a removable mast) Aspiring to be invited to the back room someday, Gene PS. Does anyone's library carry "Journal of Atmospheric Science"? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 12:35:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Sandra K Haas To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: language Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Apr 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote: > You forgot the garbled mouthful from hell that is on all the tourist > tapes but that no one ever uses!!!!! > "Ik heb het erg naar mijn zin gehad" Which phonetically speaking > sounds like "Ick heb het er(throat-clearing HACK) nare maine zsin > (throat-clearing HACK)had" which loosely translates as "I have had > the time of my life." Thank you Rozanna! I just laughed so hard I almost revisited lunch! Re: Books Finished Gossamar Axe last night!! Wonderful!!! (although most of the technical stuff went right over my head-not really into rock. John Denver anyone?) ObMisty: can you imagine an episode of Rescue 911 in Valdamar? "Central dispatch to Heard Herbie and Companion Cannon, we have a failure to pay at the local stop and rob...... Sandy :} ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 10:07:15 -0800 (PST) From: cscd3150121-+AT+-ewu.edu To: list Subject: Creators (was Re: Star wars) Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, Rossinyol wrote: > > Actually, no we don't. George Lucas, however gifted he may be as a > writer, director, etc. is not a film and text theorist. Genre analysis > and critical and comparativist theories are a domain in and of themselves > and the terms used within them are very defined. George Lucas, or any > author for that matter, can say anything that they want about their work, > but that doesn't mean that it is correct from a theoretic standpoint. > Intentions are a very different thing from results. Inspiration is not That reminds me of the story Isaac Asimov told somewhere about overhearing a person who was talking about the "deep inner meaning" of an Asimov story. It seems Asimov went up and introduced himself and told this person that none of those things were in the story and was told "What do you know, you only wrote it." Isn't it kinda, well, vain to say you know more about what a work of art means than the person who created it? (No offense intended) OBMisty: Uh...If there were robots on Velgrath what would the Hertasi do for somebody to take care of? David Tiffany ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 13:43:21 -0400 (EDT) From: EGLESTON-+AT+-bpl.org To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talking Companions Message-ID: <960425134321.1644-+AT+-bpl.org> I think that when the Companion talks to the Chosen when they first Choose it is something like an incantation, or ritual, which is part of the process of imposing the bond. Maybe it just holds the new Chosen still long enough for the bond to form. Yoicks! and Away! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 01:45:30 +0000 From: "Vrondi" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Stuff Message-ID: <199604251644.MAA00390-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> > Grok has kind of entered the universal vocabulary. I use grok all the > time and I don't read Heinlein. I know people who say grok who don't > even read speculative fiction at all. That's really no kind of proof as > to who's into Heinlein and who's not. what on earth (or off it) is grok??? - Vrondi a.k.a. Free Bard Oriole. a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ecstacy and misery have one thing in common- They both _love_ company." -me ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 19:58:47 +0200 (METDST) From: Birgit Hanel To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Vanyel's age, was: Re: Leareth Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Apr 1996, Diana L. Heald wrote: > Ma'ar didn't occupy any body that didn't have Adept potential (his > rule). Also, if Vanyel was 15 when Tylendal died and Stef was 17 > when they got together (Stef was born at the time Tyl died), then > Vanyel had to be at least 32. > I do remember that Van was 15 in MPawn, and IIRC he was about 28 in MPromise (didn't he mention somewhere - either to Medren or Jervis or Tashir - that 'Lendel had died 12 years ago , so he has to be about 38 in MPrice, which was supposed to have taken place 10 years after MPromise - Jisa was 5 in MPromise and 15 in MPrice, right? Bis denne (which means "so long" in our regional dialect ;)) Khenta Blaufalk ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 509 *********************************