MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 514 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Sorry about the cut messages by kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah M Postrech) 2) I have it: Re: LHM top 12 by Jake / Rynath in Green <102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> 3) Re: PEOPLE GET IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!! by "sean collins" 4) Re: Jedi from MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 512 by Jake / Rynath in Green <102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> 5) Introduction by JSteinb103-+AT+-aol.com 6) Re: The Birdcage (off-topic) by JSteinb103-+AT+-aol.com 7) looking for book by JSteinb103-+AT+-aol.com 8) Re: Top Ten List #5 by Rosario Holsen-Baker 9) Re: Leareth by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com 10) Re: PEOPLE GET IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!! by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 11) Re: I love you guys! : MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 512 by Jake / Rynath in Green <102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> 12) Iftel, and Vkandis & Shin'a'in Goddess by kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah M Postrech) 13) Penpals? by "Crazy Kitten :9" 14) Lord Of The Flies by mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa And Tina) 15) Re: Birdcage by Nitebird 16) Re: companions dying by Monolith 17) Re: ages of characters by kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah M Postrech) 18) Re: Birdcage by mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa And Tina) 19) Re: ages of characters by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 20) Re: book lovers(reading speed) by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com 21) Re: Jedi from MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 512 by kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah M Postrech) 22) Re: looking for book by kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah M Postrech) 23) Re: book lovers by starlite-+AT+-intergate.bc.ca (Kay) 24) Re: Happy endings by Heather Watson ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:01:28 -0700 From: kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah M Postrech) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Sorry about the cut messages Message-ID: <199604262201.PAA22066-+AT+-dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> I have no idea why, but my e-mail program has been cutting off the top line of my letters. ? about Tayledras translation was: Does anyone know the translations of Tayledras' words?..... and Kero/Eldan ...was: Question: Were Kerowyn & Eldan lifebonded or just really in love? It probably said somewhere, but I most likely just skipped right over it. :)..... I apologize sincerely for this, and I will do my best to make sure it doesn't happen again. Lady Bard Kadessa of Heilmarsh Keep "Life is like a journey, who knows when it ends..." e-mail address: Kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com Windfoenix-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: 26 Apr 96 18:24:23 EDT From: Jake / Rynath in Green <102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> To: M-L mailing list Subject: I have it: Re: LHM top 12 Message-ID: <960426222423_102744.2515_GHT132-1-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Alright. I have the top 10 list I asked for about the LHM as a movie. Please don't send me anymore! Thanks, Khenta. Dli kea'bemfoska akota'tyaaka-ne puku kea'tabhoka-beku (*) Rynath / Jake House Champion of the Ladies in Green Member of the Misty Mountain Vale The Hopeless Bibliomaniac 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com (*) For all of you who want ask me, it means "May the bones of your enemies form a bridge beneath your feet." It's from _Mind of the Magic_ by Holly Lisle. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 96 14:33:15 PDT From: "sean collins" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: PEOPLE GET IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <9604262306.AA05256-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> REPLY TO 04/26/96 14:29 FROM mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk: Re: PEOPLE GET IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!! We're sorry Lady Moonsong, but we love you so much that you're always in our minds and we just can't help making mistakes like that ;-) . (sorry I couldn't help myself, it's just those friday why isn't it five o'clock yet blues talking!) Sean To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: 26 Apr 96 19:05:31 EDT From: Jake / Rynath in Green <102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk" Subject: Re: Jedi from MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 512 Message-ID: <960426230531_102744.2515_GHT131-3-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Uh oh. Serious metaphysical Star Wars stuff. Good thing I'm up on it... Windphoenix wrote: .>OBMISTY: Sure, if Vader came to Velgarth, but what about if VAN was a .>Jedi Knight! .> .>Dli kea'bemfoska akota'tyaaka-ne puku kea'tabhoka-beku (*) .> .>Rynath / Jake .. . If Van was a Jedi Knight, he would probably be a light Jedi, .correct? .Well, then the Dark Jedis (sp?) would be more powerful then .him, because the light Jedis have a code not to try the Dark side of .the Force, because it is too tempting. But Van has a dark side, and he uses it. He's not the drippy, sappy, altruistic paladin that Luke seems to have turned into. Or at least how some authors have written him. .The lightside of the Force is more of Wisdom, while .the Darkside is the Power. (Lightening, etc., is all of the Darkside.) . Also, a Dark Jedi can't really use the light side of the Force, .because it conteracts the Darkside. What specific powers have manifested from the Light Side? I don't remember seeing any that Vader or other Dark Jedis couldn't do. Force lightning, yes, but was Van's calling the lightning down a generation of lightning or a mere control of the weather? For those are two different forms of magic, and I'd think they'd be two different force powers. .(You know how Vader couldn't .breathe plain air? .Well, if he focused all his anger and hatred that .he was like this, that he couldn't do these things, he was able to .breathe fresh air without his mask, using the Darkside of teh force, .but only for a few moments but then he would start thinking, "I can .breathe!" etc., and get happy, and therefore lose his anger and not be .able to breathe anymore. His goal was to be able to control the Force .so well that this wouldn't happen and he would be able to breathe.) I am confused about what you're trying to say. The _Essential Guide to Characters_ said under the entry "Dath Vader": "By the time Kenobi clearly understood how deeply Anakin had fallen into sync with the dark side, it was too late.... [Anakin] and Obi-Wan engaged in a vicious lightsaber battle, which ended when Anakin fell into a molten pit..." So Vader needed a breathing mask to breathe because he was seriously injured, not because he controlled the Dark Side. The whole big black armor thing was a life support system. Other Dark Jedi: The Emperor, Exar Kun, etc.. all (when alive) didn't need a breathing mask.. and those two were much more deeper in the Dark Side than Vader was. . Back to Van. :) He wouldn't be able to defeat Dark Jedis unless he .turned to the Darkside. It is possible that he would come back to the .light side, but he would have to give up the power of the Darkside, adn .it is very easy to go back to it. Well that's my 1" and my brother's .1" (although he doesn't know it. :) ) In all the films and works I've seen, (the three movies, the novels, etc..) the Dark Side has lost in the end. There is no evidence to support your claim! Now, it's not that "good wins because it's good" (hey, read my fiction if you agree with that: you'll learn to change your mind). Maybe in this instance the light side of the force is stronger. It seems to have beaten the dark side out in the canon. AND if we parallel it to Velgarth, we see that the good guys wind up winning in the end there, also. Prolly because all of it is dramatic fiction SO without a good ending they wouldn't sell. I hate that. Why is it that a majority of authors let good *win?* I would have loved to see Luke thrown over the side or electrocuted in ROTJ... and I still don't understand how Ewoks with rocks can defeat experienced crack Stormtroopers with modified Sterling rifles that are supposed to look like futuristic blasters. Sure, _Fire Rose_ doesn't have a happy cliche ending, but that's, honestly, the only one I can think of offhand. Dli kea'bemfoska akota'tyaaka-ne puku kea'tabhoka-beku (*) Rynath / Jake House Champion of the Ladies in Green Member of the Misty Mountain Vale The Hopeless Bibliomaniac 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com (*) For all of you who want ask me, it means "May the bones of your enemies form a bridge beneath your feet." It's from _Mind of the Magic_ by Holly Lisle. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 19:08:08 -0400 From: JSteinb103-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <960426190807_383731963-+AT+-emout14.mail.aol.com> Heyla - I realize that I did not introduce myself when I first posted to this list several weeks ago. So here goes: I'm Julia Steinberg, 36 years old, currently living in Baltimore MD (USA). I've been reading fantasy as a specific genre for about 14 years, ever since discovering The Mists of Avalon, and then Katherine Kurtz. My "pay-the-rent job" is as a health insurance claims examiner, basically glorified data entry. Periodically I talk about going back to school to be a librarian, but it hasn't happened yet. I consider myself a feminist and a socialist, but most of the time my political views don't get in the way of enjoying fantasy. (Partway through reading Camber of Culdi, I said "This glorifies feudalism. How can I like it so much?" Then I decided it was a great book anyhow, and kept going ). Relatively new to the Internet - a friend gave me a modem as a holiday gift in December, so please forgive "newbie" questions. Julia (no sig yet) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 19:08:10 -0400 From: JSteinb103-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Birdcage (off-topic) Message-ID: <960426190809_383731988-+AT+-emout16.mail.aol.com> On Wednesday, April 24, Heather said: > Okay, now that the public has decided there need not be mass rioting >in the streets if Hollywood makes a movie about gay men, the next step >is to make a movie about gay men where they actually get to *kiss.* I Well, it wasn't done in Hollywood, but did you see The Wedding Banquet? IIRC, it was nominated for best foreign film two years ago. I think the main characters kissed. And the plot line explained why we weren't seeing much more. (Don't want to spoil it for anyone by being more specific). My favorite scene was when the couple had to totally redecorate their house because parents were coming to visit who didn't didn't know their son was gay. Julia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 19:08:14 -0400 From: JSteinb103-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: looking for book Message-ID: <960426190814_383732082-+AT+-emout07.mail.aol.com> I read a book called "Enchantress from the Stars" by Sylvia Louise Engdahl about 25 years ago. IIRC, the story was about an anthropology student from a highly advanced planet who had to pass herself off as a magician when she did her field work. It's probably classified as children or YA. I can't find it in the library here. Did anyone else read this or know where I could find it? ObMisty: I don't think Velgarth has anthropologists. Julia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 19:12:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Top Ten List #5 Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Apr 1996, Cennydd wrote: > On Fri, 26 Apr 1996, Jake / Rynath in Green wrote: > > > 6. "So we get Nine Inch Nails to do the Misty Movie soundtrack." > > Oh ! My ! God ! This would ROCK!!!!! Can you just see Stefen singing > "Closer" to Vanyel? "I wanna **** you like an animal!" I love that > song, it so sexy! > So much for silences! :) Seriously, I could see it, but only if they did an adaptation of Misty. Actually, that would be pretty cool, to have an adaptation. Present day....Talia's music could be Alanis..."Like rain on your wedding day..." Maybe, like your lifebonded love in denial! *****LADY JAGUAR***** Leader of the Cat People Lady in Green LGMCB Conspirator #13, DHTBB Lobe #3! "If you want someone to love you, open your heart. If you want someone obsessed with you, close it." ********************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:54:29 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Leareth Message-ID: <199604262354.QAA06589-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla! >Vanyel went to face Leareth, he was about 35 or 36 years old. In >MPromise, he was 28 and Medren was 12. In the following book, Medren >was about 19 or 20, so Vanyel *had* to be about 35, leaving 20 years >since Krebain when Van & Leareth fought. If Krebain was Leareth, he >would have been able to take over his next body even an instant after >his death, depending on when the person tried to call fire. Whoever it >was would already have been at least a teenage most likely, in order to >want to call fire. Leareth would not have to go up from a child. If >Leareth took over the body shortly after Krebain's demise, he could >conceivably build an army and begin killing Herald-Mages in 20 years. > I had been convinced that Ma'ar was Krebain was Leareth, but after a >few points brought up in various letters, I am not too sure any more. >I'm still in favor of M=K=L, but I'm going to try to do some more >research. > >Lady Bard Kadessa of Heilmarsh Keep > >"Life is like a journey, who knows when it ends..." It was also said that "Master Dark" had been operating for generations - but suppose, (just try to follow this. It probably won't make sense, but it might) that Ma'ar was Krebain. He's about to launch his own capaign into the pelagirs or whatever, when this upstart comes along, kills his body, and sends his soul back to his little hidey-hole. He's probably burning for revenge, but gets his chance - another of Ma'ar's descendants, with huge potential, casts the fire spell almost immediately, allowing him to take over; this one's further north. He uses his magic to accelerate his growth (it was mentioned that he could do that). He finds another, mysterious mage called Master Dark, who has similar ambitions. He manages to kill the original Master Dark, and, finding the position useful, takes it over. He continues rallying hte troops, until he's ready to launch another attack, now against Valdemar. (and is thwarted by Van :-) ) Only two problems: 1. Master Dark, whoever he is, would still have to have been operating for generations, somewhat unlikely, and its rather convenient to find someone else hiring soldiers, stc., and 2. I think Krebain mentioned working for MAster Dark - rather a large coincidence, eh? Well, its a theory. Anyways, speaking of MAster Dark, anyone else really annoyed that he caused 'Lendel's madness, repudiation, and death? Zhai'helleva and Cheysuli i'halla shansu, "Do you want to go back to my place - bouncy bouncy!" - zJohn Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus -------------------------------------- Save the Eurasian Lynx! Sign the petition at http://lynx.uio.no/jon/lynxform.html *************************************************** Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr *************************************************** Homepage at http://members.tripod.com/~Cynric/index.html /\ / \.--./\ / \ / \ / \/ \ .--. / |\_/| \ | | .--. / / o o\ \ | | | | .---. / /( )\ \ | `- ' |_| | / / \#/ \ \ | ___' | | `---. | | | | | | | (~\ | | / ~) | | __\_|| ||_/__ | | _///_//_| |_\\__\\\___|__| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 20:10:22 -0400 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: PEOPLE GET IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <960426200951_101271508-+AT+-emout09.mail.aol.com> >>>> When you are discussing the tayledras that helped Van and Savil in the LHM > series please remember that it is MoonDANCE not MoonSONG. While I'm on this Whatever you say, Lady Moondance. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd,<<<< Most ladies try to lie about there age but I can honestly say that I am not *that* old. Lady Moonsong (Adept-class tayledras mage), Lady Windshadow (Lady Moonsong's black panther mindmate), Lady Kreana (Lady Moonsong's golden eagle bondbird) Ones In Black and Ladies In Green "Just what is a dog? Let me put it this way . . . if a dog were a faucet it would leak." - Garfield the Cat ------------------------------ Date: 26 Apr 96 22:00:21 EDT From: Jake / Rynath in Green <102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk" Subject: Re: I love you guys! : MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 512 Message-ID: <960427020021_102744.2515_GHT53-4-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Seanna wrote: >And I really love the people here. Since I haven't said it before, >Thanks, folks. :( What? No mention of the rapier-like wit and humor of Rynath? We're depressed! Dli kea'bemfoska akota'tyaaka-ne puku kea'tabhoka-beku... Rynath / Jake House Champion of the Ladies in Green Member of the Misty Mountain Vale The Hopeless Bibliomaniac 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com -------------------------------------- Bide by the Wiccan laws we must In perfect love and perfect trust Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill: An ye harm none, do what ye will. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 19:08:04 -0700 From: kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah M Postrech) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Iftel, and Vkandis & Shin'a'in Goddess Message-ID: <199604270208.TAA02265-+AT+-dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Does anyone remember the remark that someone (I think it was in SWarning) made to a Goddess of Karse, Vkandis' consort or something, and then the reference to a male diety in the Shin'a'in history? Could it be possible that these are connected? Maybe Vkandis and the Shin'a'in Goddess worked together in two different cultures, then kind of seperated, one working more with one people, and the other with the other people? Just a guess. Does it sound reasonable to anyone else? Also, what's the deal with Iftel? It's just like _there_. No one really remembers it and it doesn't do very much. Think Misty might write a story about Iftel eventually? I hope so, 'cause it's really annoying and I would love to know something about it. :) Well, that's all I wanted to say. :) Lady Bard Kadessa of Heilmarsh Keep "Ultimately, time is all we have and the idea isn't to save it but to savor it." e-mail address: Kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com Windfoenix-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 20:04:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Crazy Kitten :9" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Penpals? Message-ID: Hey everyone..I'm new to this group and have never posted anything althought I have been reading for about 1 1/2 weeks now. Anyhow, after May 16, I won't have net-access for the rest of the summer and perhaps for the rest of my life. *ack* I was wondering if anyone would be interested in becomine a penpal. I want to keep up on Mercedes Lackey stuff and if I can't do it on the net, snail mail will have to do. :) If you're interested or just wanna yell at me for posting this, then just email and let me know, kay? :) Thanks! This note is curtousy of: ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ ****Marilyn Kurtz******** Purr -_ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Email ME!! mkurtz-+AT+-scs.unr.edu - (_Y_.)'` ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' "Cats rule and Dogs DROOL!" (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 20:27:13 -0700 (MST) From: mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa And Tina) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Lord Of The Flies Message-ID: <199604270327.UAA16052-+AT+-primenet.com> >I read it on my own in Jr. High, and hated it. so, when we had to >pick two of 3 books for summer reading in high school and one was >LOTF, I read the other two! >- Vrondi > > Well, I'll tell you what. I had to read that stupid, overdone, piece of utter bullpucky, and in case you hadn't guessed, I absolutly despised the book. I know I'm just asking to be flamed here, but I couldn't help it. I thought the storyline, to be a little fair, wouldn't have been bad, if it had been done without the paragraph long descriptions of things that didn't matter one iota. And, why, if anyone has an answer to this, did everything have to be PINK? (Look, I've had a really bad day, I've got 400 e-mails to read, and I HATED analyzing the f***ing symbolism. ) Standard warning: This is my NSHO. (I'm sure someone is going to tear me apart over this...) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lady 'Reesa<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Just one final thought. Writing is like sex: people do it all the time, in all sorts of ways, but only those with good control, technique, and length (or depth) really stand out. -Jake Adamo/Rynath In Green '96 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 23:33:25 -0400 From: Nitebird To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Birdcage Message-ID: <31819585.64FE-+AT+-ns.gamewood.net> Mat Timmerman wrote: >(medium snip) > shot from Jean-Luc Picard (oh, and I'm not saying that gay men > are all limp-wristed -- I know it's not true, being gay myself). > I recommend the movie to everyone. > > You know, I just realized something. You guys are only the > third "person" that I've come out to. I guess it just goes > to show how friendly we are on this list. :) > You know what's cool about that? It sounded so casual, which IMHO, is the way coming out should be. I mean, why should anyone be upset over who you love? just my thoughts, the NiteBird -- And may you get - not what you deserve - But your hearts desire. Sayvil, BTS ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 00:00:28 -0400 From: Monolith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: companions dying Message-ID: <31819BDB.68DA-+AT+-vicon.net> > Also, the MOC is always grove-born, and I was going to give a good > reason for this, but as I was typing the letter, I realized I couldn't > figure out how to put what I'm thinking into words. Something like, he > wouldn't have, like, human experience or something, maybe not have ever > loved anyone. I'm sure this doesn't make any sense. Can anyone else > figure out what I'm trying to say? (I'm not sure I can, so if you can, > it's a real accomplishment. :) ) > Quick question: Didn't one of the books say somewhere that all MOC > are male? Fact: All MOC are both grove born and Male (AOQ) Guess: I think the MOC is just reborn whenever he dies. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 21:11:54 -0700 From: kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah M Postrech) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ages of characters Message-ID: <199604270411.VAA13391-+AT+-dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > >gee whiz, y'all, I was figurin' up some things using the timeline in >the front of "By The Sword." When Oathbound begins, Kethry is on 19 >years old! she says she was 12 when her bro. sold her, and it's been >7 years! She seems to think of Tarma as being younger, so how young >was Tarma I wonder... >According to the timeline, there is 106 years between Oathbound and >By The Sword. This makes Kethry 125 years old! whew! good thing >she's a mage! >- Vrondi > a.k.a. Free Bard Oriole. > a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Ecstacy and misery have one thing in common- >They both _love_ company." >-me > Just because Leesa and Arden started their reign in 1270 does not mean that the books began at exactly 1270. It was probably later, considering how old Roald was. Lady Bard Kadessa of Heilmarsh Keep "Prehaps you can't be a star, but you need not be a cloud." e-mail address: Kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com Windfoenix-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 21:16:56 -0700 (MST) From: mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa And Tina) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Birdcage Message-ID: <199604270416.VAA04045-+AT+-primenet.com> > >You know, I just realized something. You guys are only the >third "person" that I've come out to. I guess it just goes >to show how friendly we are on this list. :) > > >Mat > It didn't hit me until after I'd sent the post to the list, when we were discussing the Utah school groups, but that was the very first time I'd said anything about being bi to anyone but myself. It amazed me, that I felt comfortable enough to come out for the first time to millions (well, at least a hundred) of people, but you guys, even when I don't agree with you, are one of the most interesting, caring and intelligent groups of people I've ever known. Not only that, but you appreciate my anal-retentive book devouring! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lady 'Reesa<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Just one final thought. Writing is like sex: people do it all the time, in all sorts of ways, but only those with good control, technique, and length (or depth) really stand out. -Jake Adamo/Rynath In Green '96 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 00:47:51 -0400 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ages of characters Message-ID: <960427004750_383983384-+AT+-emout16.mail.aol.com> >>This makes Kethry 125 years old! whew! good thing she's a mage! - Vrondi<< Um, I can understand Kethry's ability to stay old what with being a mage and all but how can Tarma saty with her and live that long too if she's *not* a mage? Did the Star-eyed give her immortality for as long as she wanted? I'm getting a little confused (as you all know quite well . . .) Lady Moonsong (Adept-class tayledras mage), Lady Windshadow (Lady Moonsong's black panther mindmate), Lady Kreana (Lady Moonsong's golden eagle bondbird) Ones In Black and Ladies In Green "Just what is a dog? Let me put it this way . . . if a dog were a faucet it would leak." - Garfield the Cat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 22:03:45 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: book lovers(reading speed) Message-ID: <199604270503.WAA11284-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla! >Vrondi wrote: >> >> > What I think, though, is that to comprehend something is not the same as >> > *feeling* it. And *feeling* what you read is, in my opinion, the main >> > point of reading entertainment literature. >> please see the post I made just before this one=crying, laughing, >> singing, etc. from reading a book. quickly, even! > >I am ashamed to read in public, cause people look at me wierd. > >I laugh, giggle, cry, etc as I read too. > >Monolith >man of stone Heh heh...I was at camp a few weeks ago...I set up a chair aways off from everyone else, sat down and started reading. Of course, I was also singing along with Oathbound and laughing, etc., as I read...It was a while before anyone came near ;) Bright Blessings, "Drop your panties Sir William, I cannot wait 'til lunchtime" - John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus -------------------------------------- Save the Eurasian Lynx! Sign the petition at http://lynx.uio.no/jon/lynxform.html *************************************************** Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr *************************************************** Homepage at http://members.tripod.com/~Cynric/index.html /\ / \.--./\ / \ / \ / \/ \ .--. / |\_/| \ | | .--. / / o o\ \ | | | | .---. / /( )\ \ | `- ' |_| | / / \#/ \ \ | ___' | | `---. | | | | | | | (~\ | | / ~) | | __\_|| ||_/__ | | _///_//_| |_\\__\\\___|__| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 23:08:36 -0700 From: kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah M Postrech) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Jedi from MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 512 Message-ID: <199604270608.XAA17010-+AT+-dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Okay, i'm going to do my best to defend what I've said, although everything I know, I got from my brother, so I don't have the complete story. :) I'd ask him, but he's either out or sleeping (it's 1:30 am). > >Uh oh. Serious metaphysical Star Wars stuff. Good thing I'm up on >it... >Windphoenix wrote: > >>OBMISTY: Sure, if Vader came to Velgarth, but what about if VAN was a >>Jedi Knight! >> >>Dli kea'bemfoska akota'tyaaka-ne puku kea'tabhoka-beku (*) >> >>Rynath / Jake >. >. If Van was a Jedi Knight, he would probably be a light Jedi, >.correct? .Well, then the Dark Jedis (sp?) would be more powerful >.then him, because the light Jedis have a code not to try the Dark >.side of the Force, because it is too tempting. > >But Van has a dark side, and he uses it. He's not the drippy, sappy, >altruistic paladin that Luke seems to have turned into. Or at least >how some authors have written him. > I agree that Van has a dark side, but everyone does, even the drippy, sappy, altruistic paladins (and from what I've heard, Luke is not totally one of those. He did turn to the Darkside for a while.) This is all I can think of to say to this, except "Gee, I wish my brother was here." :) >.The lightside of the Force is more of Wisdom, while >.the Darkside is the Power. (Lightening, etc., is all of the >.Darkside.) >. Also, a Dark Jedi can't really use the light side of the Force, >.because it conteracts the Darkside. > >What specific powers have manifested from the Light Side? I don't >remember seeing any that Vader or other Dark Jedis couldn't do. >Force lightning, yes, but was Van's calling the lightning down a >generation of lightning or a mere control of the weather? For those >are two different forms of magic, and I'd think they'd be two >different force powers. As far as I can tell, from what my brother told me, was that there really weren't any powers, such as lightening, etc. that came from the Lightside. I believe telekinesis was of both sides, but that's the only one I can think of off hand. Sorry. :) >.(You know how Vader couldn't breathe plain air? >.Well, if he focused all his anger and hatred that >.he was like this, that he couldn't do these things, he was able to >.breathe fresh air without his mask, using the Darkside of teh force, >.but only for a few moments but then he would start thinking, "I can >.breathe!" etc., and get happy, and therefore lose his anger and not be able to breathe anymore. His goal was to be able to control the >.Force so well that this wouldn't happen and he would be able to >.breathe.) > >I am confused about what you're trying to say. > >The _Essential Guide to Characters_ said under the entry "Dath Vader": >"By the time Kenobi clearly understood how deeply Anakin had fallen >into sync with the dark side, it was too late.... [Anakin] and Obi-Wan >engaged in a vicious lightsaber battle, which ended when Anakin fell >into a molten pit..." > >So Vader needed a breathing mask to breathe because he was seriously >injured, not because he controlled the Dark Side. The whole big black >armor thing was a life support system. > >Other Dark Jedi: The Emperor, Exar Kun, etc.. all (when alive) didn't need a breathing mask.. and those two were much more deeper in the Dark >Side than Vader was. You are totally right. I'm sorry I didn't explain what I was trying to say. Since Vader was crippled so badly and his lungs were damaged (molten lava and stuff does that :) ) he couldn't breathe without a mask. *But, if he focused his anger at being crippled, etc. into using his powers from the darkside, he was able to heal himself temporarily enough that he could breathe. But when he could breathe, he lost his anger and therefore he was no longer able to stay healed, and couldn't breathe. Does that make more sense? >. Back to Van. :) He wouldn't be able to defeat Dark Jedis unless >.he turned to the Darkside. It is possible that he would come back to >.the light side, but he would have to give up the power of the >.Darkside, adn it is very easy to go back to it. Well that's my 1 >.cent and my brother's 1 cent (although he doesn't know it. :) ) > >In all the films and works I've seen, (the three movies, the novels, >etc..) the Dark Side has lost in the end. There is no evidence to >support your claim! Now, it's not that "good wins because it's good" >(hey, read my fiction if you agree with that: you'll learn to change >your mind). Maybe in this instance the light side of the force is >stronger. It seems to have beaten the dark side out in the canon. All I know is what my brother tells me, and he read some of the books. He never told me who won in the end, so I couldn't say. That last paragraph was completely IMHO, and I am completely open to any disagreements, because I know I can't defend it. When & if I ever get a chance to read the Star wars novels, maybe I'll be able to, (or maybe I will totally change my opinion, who knows?) >AND if we parallel it to Velgarth, we see that the good guys wind >up winning in the end there, also. Prolly because all of it Wars, Misty's Velgarth books> is dramatic fiction SO without a good >ending they wouldn't sell. Good point... :) >I hate that. Why is it that a majority of authors let good *win?* I >would have loved to see Luke thrown over the side or electrocuted in >ROTJ... and I still don't understand how Ewoks with rocks can defeat >experienced crack Stormtroopers with modified Sterling rifles that are >supposed to look like futuristic blasters. Sure, _Fire Rose_ doesn't >have a happy cliche ending, but that's, honestly, the only one I can >think of offhand. That sounds like something my brother would say. :) He's totally for the Empire and likes it when the Rebels are foiled in their plans. (I am the complete opposite. I prefer the rebels, particularly Leia, Han, Chewy, C3PO, R2D2, and teh Ewoks (they're so *cute*!). >Dli kea'bemfoska akota'tyaaka-ne puku kea'tabhoka-beku (*) > >Rynath / Jake >House Champion of the Ladies in Green >Member of the Misty Mountain Vale >The Hopeless Bibliomaniac >102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com > >(*) For all of you who want ask me, it means "May the bones of your enemies form >a bridge beneath your feet." It's from _Mind of the Magic_ by Holly Lisle. > Well, that's all I have to say. :) Lady Bard Kadessa of Heilmarsh Keep/Windphoenix k'Vaia "The difference between a conviction and a prejudice is that you can explain a conviction without getting angry." e-mail address: Kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com Windfoenix-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 23:17:29 -0700 From: kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah M Postrech) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: looking for book Message-ID: <199604270617.XAA10806-+AT+-dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> >I read a book called "Enchantress from the Stars" by Sylvia Louise >Engdahl about 25 years ago. IIRC, the story was about an anthropology >student from a highly advanced planet who had to pass herself off as a >magician when she did her field work. It's probably classified as >children or YA. I can't find it in the library here. Did anyone >else read this or know where I could find it? > >ObMisty: I don't think Velgarth has anthropologists. > >Julia > My library has it, although I don't know if you want to drive about 5 hours to NJ to get it. :) I got about halfway through it, but unfortunately I was rather busy at the time and never got to finish it. :P That normally doesn't happen, but there's always a first time. :) Lady Bard Kadessa of Heilmarsh Keep/Windphoenix k'Vaia "You can't get much done by starting tomorrow." e-mail address: Kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com Windfoenix-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 23:50:34 -0700 From: starlite-+AT+-intergate.bc.ca (Kay) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: book lovers Message-ID: <199604270650.XAA26401-+AT+-diablo.intergate.bc.ca> Oh boy. I must be incredibly deprived. I never read any of the "regulars" for my English classes. I read "Banner in the Sky" in grade seven, but that was it, I think (of the regulars, I mean). I missed the LOTF, Romeo and Juliet, Hamlet, Clan of the Cave Bear, A Swiftly Tilting Planet... Hey, that's quite a lot! Hmmm...!!! I only remember mostly reading different novels and being glad at the time, because "OUR teacher wanted OUR class to be different". But now that I think of it, I must have really missed out. Well, I DO remember reading "The Outsiders" by S.E. Hinton. I thought that was pretty neat, and I'm supposing that my class wasn't the only one reading it? "The Rose Bush" was really good, something about an abused boy, but I can't remember the author, and I don't think many classes would have read this one. Anyone out there? Midnite Whisper !-+AT+-#$%%^&*()!-+AT+-#$%^&*(!-+AT+-#$$^&* "Winning isn't everything, but losing isn't anything." - Charlie Brown ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 02:31:48 CST From: Heather Watson To: Subject: Re: Happy endings Message-ID: <27APR96.02732635.0161.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Are you seriously suggesting that RotJ would have been a better movie if Luke had gotten blown to hell? Err, I find that hard to justify. Now, mind you, I dislike pat happy endings myself. After I wrote my annotated Top 10 list and showed it to my she'enedra, she commented that very few of the works on it were exactly chipper. The majority of them were pretty darn depressing, actually. (I mentioned earlier that I recently reread *The Last Rainbow.* God, what a wringing book that is. I mean, it's really grim in a lot of ways, and I loved every second of it.) So this is not coming from an "oh, but then they'd be *unhappy*" perspective. Not that there's really anything wrong with that. A lot of people like to read in order to lift their spirits, escape from a bad day, whatever. Which is cool, and there needs to be fiction out there for that purpose. Which there is, so we're set. However, I have always strongly believed that there has to be a point to the story, or it's more or less an utter waste of time. What would the point have been to Star Wars if we spent all that time getting into the worldview, bonding with the characters, etcetera, and at the end things were essentially the same as they were at the beginning? Had Luke failed on the Death Star, had the rebels failed on Endor, Vader and the Emperor would have been right back in control, exactly where they were in the beginning of the series. So...why did we bother, again? Essentially, if nothing changes, nothing has happened. If nothing changes, there is no story. Therefore, IMO, any ending at all, whether happy or depressing, ought to have a Major Effect on what's called the "story question" -- the essential "what's going to happen here?" type thing. (God, what a stunning vocabulary. This is what a nine-hour shift listening to drunk people scream will do to your brain.) So Vanyel's death was a Good Ending, because through it the story question was resolved, and change occured. Vanyel getting killed by the bandits who kidnapped him would have been a Bad Ending, because there would have been no *reason* within the story for that to happen. What would it accomplish? A good writer doesn't put a damn line in the book that doesn't *accomplish* something, doesn't forward the story somehow. (By story I'm not referring narrowly to the plot; you can forward the story through characterization, theme, world-building, all sorts of things.) I don't think a story about a bunch of people who run around and try to do things but don't get them done and then die is very good storytelling. Unless your story is about why they fail, about human frailty or some such thing. Then there's purpose to their failure. I know life doesn't work this way. But most people aren't interested in reading about real life. Why should we be? We live real life. We'd like to read about something new. I happen to like my fiction pretty lifelike, but not completely. Take dialogue as an example. Have you ever paid attention to how people really speak? It's tragic. You'd have any author who wrote dialgoue like that shot on sight. You'd get frustrated and annoyed reading it. Because what makes speech acceptable in an informal situation is different from what's acceptable in writing. Back on track. Anyway, that's why Vader didn't electrocute Luke. (In the movie, Luke was not a sap. This is why I never read "based on" type fiction. They never do the original creation justice. The TSR Dragonlance Tales Heroes Meetings Legends Lore Histories Grocery Lists are the greatest injustices ever perpetrated against a kindly and well-meaning fantasy-reading public. If you want tragedy, they're tragic.) Part of the reason I *like* Misty is that a significant proportion of her work is not pat and happy. (Sounds like a kids' show. "What time is it? Time for Pat & Happy!!") Her first two trilogies (Arrows & LHM, for the puzzled) are very clear on the idea that if you want to do Great Things, you're going to have to suffer for them. Glorious destinies lead to glorious funerals. Sure, you can stop ultimate evil. If you're willing to die for it. (I just had a Seventh Sign flashback: "Will You Die For Him?" Pretty good flick. Weird, but good. Even *with* Demi Moore.) Ponder the tragedy here for a minute. A man who has lived twenty years in the shadow of pain, who has separated himself from the whole world and denied himself most of the human pleasures that make life worth living, a man who has tried to replace happiness with honor, finally finds something that matters to him, someone he cares about so much that he's willing to risk pain he's spent his entire adult life avoiding, just to be with this person. Now, just now, when he's found this new life, he's asked to voluntarily give it up, to visit all the grief and pain he suffered on his beloved, and to do it for strangers and people who have always asked him to do the impossible for them. What an agonizing decision. Ask how you would deal with this situation. Think about the choice he made, and what it had to have cost him emotionally, understanding as he did what all this meant. This is your definition of happy? Oh, sure, the good guys won, in that evil did not take over the world. But I don't think happy endings are that simplistic. They are in chess. It doesn't matter how many pieces you lose; it's the King that counts, the end result. But life is not chess, and the process, the experience, is as important as the final score. Sports fans know this. You could watch the game, or you could check the paper in the morning to find out who won. You're going to watch the game, of course. Because what happens along the way is what enthralls us, not how it ends. Granted, most of Misty's more recent stuff is a little, um, perky for my tastes. Some of it very good, but only (for me) as escapist, avoiding-homework kind of reading. I'm still holding out hope for the Storm trilogy. There's already been some angst with Firesong, and I'm anxious to see where she goes with it. (My she'enedra and I had a long conversation a few weeks back about what we'd do to -- um, I mean with -- Firesong if we were choosing. It was a little sinister, really. Valdemar in general is lucky we're not in charge. Nobody gets away with being *that* happy in our world.) Erk, trying to stay on topic. By the Sword was almost beautiful, right up until the end. The infamous, "Everybody, now -- SOULBOND!" scene. I personally loved Children of the Night. I could go on and on about why Davy was a superb character. But the point is, he was not real happy. I think you're selling Misty short: she doesn't *always* go in for wrenching and tragic, but when she does, she does it very well. You just have to look a little further into it than who wins. Tragedy can be subtle, and sometimes you have to mull things over before it really sinks in on you how difficult a situation really is. Sorry, guys. It occurs to me that anyone who wants to respond to this is going to have a hell of a time, because I have just composed a more verbose and labrynthine post even than usual, and it's going to be well nigh on to impossible to snip effectively. Like shooting at a moving target. Well, um, Seanna has just made me an Elder of the Tribe, so you young pups have to listen to me ramble. HTH "We're not alcoholics. We're the authors." ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 514 *********************************