MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 582 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Mage War Trilogy was Re: Tolkien by Jake <102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> 2) Re: Valdemar's Seal | Filk was Re: Kris' Ring (and thank by Tensen 3) Re: Titles by Tensen 4) Wet Wings by kcovert-+AT+-wvnvm.wvnet.edu (Kathy Covert) 5) Book blurbs, was Re: Gripe about The Lark and the Wren by Tammy Harris 6) Re: authors/Dr Who by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 7) Re: Tail-kinker and other tricksters by Summer is icumen in! 8) Re: Need was re: Lots. by Heart-Song 9) Re: Emily by alicia rice 10) Re: Trek novels by "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" 11) Re: Hormones and the Curse was (Re: Di's...) by Saranhct-+AT+-aol.com 12) Re:DragonCon/Bedlam's Bard/Rediscovery/TigerBurning Bright/etc.. by "Vrondi" 13) Re: Slightly off-topic help request by Patricia Christianson 14) Re: Di's Guardian powers kick in by alicia rice 15) Re: Guardians/Biography by "Hth." 16) Warning!!! General Negativity by "Hth." 17) Re: Tail-kinker and other tricksters - Reply by Barbara Slater 18) Re:DragonCon/Bedlam's Bard/Rediscovery/Ti - Reply by Barbara Slater 19) Oooops!!! Address Correction!!! by Barbara Slater 20) Re: Who else cried when Lendel died? by Shadow-Lover 21) Re: Lots... by alicia rice 22) Re: Of classes.... by Soljan-+AT+-aol.com 23) Re: Filk Origins by Jake <102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> 24) Re: Trek novels by michele meredith 25) Re: On RPG's and poor authors | Heyyy 'Reesaaaa! by Jake <102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 96 10:15:27 EDT From: Jake <102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: Mage War Trilogy was Re: Tolkien Message-ID: <960528141527_102744.2515_GHT103-1-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> David Tiffany wrote: >> I havn't read Silver Gryphon yet but I wonder if part of the problem people are having with it (and White Gryphon also) is that we are thinking of this as "The Mage War Trilogy" when Misty seems to be writing the "History of clan K'Leshya." IMHO, it seems many of us might have been happier if Black Gryphon had been the end of a Trilogy about the mage wars and White and Silver had been entries in a new trilogy about the aftermath.<< Well, I suppose the reason everyone is thinking this was the Mage Wars" trilogy is because Misty called it that. So what do you expect from us? You are right, though, in saying that the series seems to be "History of the clan K'Leshya." _Black Gryphon_ would make a good third book. This "Mage Wars" series is missing a trilogy before it, talking about the Mage Wars themselves. I'd rather hear about Urtho and Ma'ar than Kechara Blade and Tad. All three of the Mage Wars books could stand alone, completely. It's not as if they were tied together by a plot or anything. Sure, there's a common element (characters, etc.) but the plotlines were three separate ones. You could take any one of those three and read them and not need to look at the other two, while with most of her other books, you have to read the trilogy from the beginning in order to understand things. Jake ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 10:57:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Tensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Valdemar's Seal | Filk was Re: Kris' Ring (and thank Message-ID: > > Ok, I have been puzzeling for several weeks now... I can't take it > anymore.... What is a "filk"?!?!?!!? Most of the acronyms in use on this > list eventually explain themselves, but not filk... PLEASE! Tell me what it > means???? Ah, filk can't exaplin itself that easily, because it isn't an acronym. Technically its science-fiction/fantasy folk music. But the story being that someone mislabled the first ones as filk, and as typically occurs, someone decided they liked that new term and continued using it. Tensen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:03:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Tensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Titles Message-ID: > > Well, at least none of you are doomed, as I am, to look not a day over 12 > until you turn about 25, at which point, I'll probably finally look 16! > (I am currently 17, and still get id checks for movies) > *sigh* I guess I shouldn't complain. I can still pass for a little kid > at all of the amusement parks, which saves a pretty penny nowadays! > > -sparrow > Hey, you'd be a cheap date to the movies. I had a best friend that would embarass me by doing that at the movies. Being that I've had grey hair since I was 12. If I kept my beard and she did the act, they'd treat us like father and daughter. Ick. Tensen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:21:31 -0400 From: kcovert-+AT+-wvnvm.wvnet.edu (Kathy Covert) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Wet Wings Message-ID: <199605281521.LAA03227-+AT+-names> I wanted to point out a new ML short story published in "Sisters in Fantasy II", edited by Susan Schwartz and Martin Greenberg. Title: Wet Wings I don't want to spoil the story for those who haven't read it yet, but I found it ... interesting.... and especially suggest you read Schwarz' preliminary editor's statement before you read the book. *** Spoilers**** enough space??? The story struck me as obviously (clumsily???) self-referential and self-indulgent. While there is an important message about the twin and entwined dangers of PC-ism and intolerance, it seems to be another ML two ton hammer anti-religion/government crusade. Along with a two ton hammer "dammit, you crazed fans, get a life and stop bothering me" crusade. And this is the story she "needed to write"? (Those were the directions in the invitation to write a story for the anthology.) I'd welcome other comments about the story. Kathy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 10:29:44 -0500 From: Tammy Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Book blurbs, was Re: Gripe about The Lark and the Wren Message-ID: <29B2BBA1055-+AT+-medicine.dmed.iupui.edu> On a dark and stormy night.... Well, okay, on a grey and cloudy morning.... I must agree with Jake/Rynath/J./ekaJ. I find it extremely frustrating when a book's blurb has little or nothing to do with the plot. Worse, IMO, is when it reveals an aspect of the plot that should have been a surprise. I once read a series that spent almost a book and a half leading up to a denouement, building up the suspense as it went along (sort of a "would he or wouldn't he"), only to have the resolution illustrated on the cover of the second book!! (Luckily, a friend warned me, and I bought the book and made a cover for it, without ever looking at it. Obsessive, who, me??) (Btw, has anyone else noticed the large number of personalities with e-mail address 102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM? Jake, dear, I'm really starting to worry about you. All of you.) Really? You *must* be joking!! I guess I've never read it. Rather surprising, considering the number of times I've read the book. I just see "Mercedes Lackey" on the cover and grab the book. Unless I'm moping about, waiting for a HB to be released in paperback--then I read the cover! And now, ready, set, WORK! (No, no, anything but that!) Tammy "It's time to ask yourself what you believe" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 16:48:43 +0100 (BST) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: authors/Dr Who Message-ID: <9605281548.AA05393-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > Fellow brits - who watched the new Dr Who last night? Good wasn't it? Bit of a Curate's Egg, I thought :-) Good in Parts. I liked some of the Tardis interiors (not quite sure about the controls); McGann and the guy who played the Master were good, as were the special effects. I enjoyed watching it :-). On the other hand, the plot was solid fluff and there weren't any daleks :-> For existing fans, that's not too bad - as a basis to attract new ones, I think it fails badly - no real introduction of the main characters or explanation of the background; feeble destroy-the-earth subplot used as an excuse for a deadline and some special effects - which are then conveniently ignored for the rest of the world - and a few generic chase scenes. Fun mind candy while it lasted, but not really striking enough to establish many new fans - and not really spectacular enough to do all that well as a standalone, and the monster bits were competent rather than memorable. I think they'd have done better with daleks - or some equally memorable nasties - if they'd wanted something to make it stand out and create new fans; as it is, *taken on its own*, it's largely average - and forgettable. For existing fans, it's an interesting hint of what *could* be done with a decent budget - and our background knowledge and favorite characters help to make it more interesting. In contrast - and to bring in some Misty content :-) Look at the way Misty handles things in the short story _Stolen Silver_ about how Alberich got chosen - there's no scope for long background explanations, yet Misty manages to tell a good story that works well *even as a standalone* if you don't know any of the Valdemar/herald background. Good enough that it would probably encourage people to find out more - which the Dr Who film probably doesn't. -Jerry -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 12:19:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Summer is icumen in! To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tail-kinker and other tricksters Message-ID: On Tue, 28 May 1996, Barbara Slater wrote: > Misty's use of her character's grandfather as a trickster figure in Sacred Ground is well-done, IMHO. Does anybody know if this is > the first time theat she uses such a figure in her stories - oops, just realized, she uses Tarma and the Snow-Demon story in one of the > Oath books,...er, um, aha! Oathbreakers! Remember, the snowball fight in the barracks courtyard, with the kids...? Tarma tells Kethry, > later, that the Shin'a'nin (sp?) have a whole slew of trickster stories, used to teach their kids about things that can bite them. I haven't read Sacred Ground, but I question the characterisation of the the Snow Demon as a "trickster" story. The trickster archtype is not an evil character. It is, exactly as its eponym suggests, a trickster, a deciever, whathaveyou. The trickster is not some monster that comes into a group in fair seeming and then devours them. In fact, in most NA mythoi, the trickster figure is a hero. For a good idea of the trickster, read "Song of the South" and the Uncle Remus stories. Br'er Rabbit is the Cherokee trickster. If the trickster in Sacred Ground is a villain/monster, it just hardens my resolve to avoid anything that Misty writes which is based on NA motifs. She mis-handled the Aztec stuff in "Burning Water" and I don't even want to know what she is going to do to the stuff in Sacred Ground. (BTW, just out of curiousity, is Sacred Ground based on any particular cosmology (Osage, Cherokee, Lakota, etc.) or is it just a generic NA sort of thing?) to those who liked SG and BW, my apologies, but I really disliked BW. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 06:37:24 -1000 From: Heart-Song To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List Subject: Re: Need was re: Lots. Message-ID: > Need is dead, technically, isn't she? She's in a sword. That might depend on what you mean by "technical". :) She did kill her physical body (as we know it) in order to transfer her soul (?) to the sword. So to me, the essence of who she is, is still intact... thus "alive". MO > My vote: Elspeth. :) Because she's one of my least favorite characters > all. I'd have agreed with you when I first started reading the Winds tril...But I think she has come a long way from the (pardon) bitch she used to come off as. I respect her character now rather than just wanting to stab her myself. :) But then, I tend to give alot of credit for Change. Bless, Ailima. / / / Ailima-+AT+-TMI-2 || RydWorld / / / Karuna-+AT+-UNItopia || The Mud Hut /=====/ /----/ /----/ /----\ /=== / / /----/ / // / / /-----/ / / /==== /====// / / / _______________________________/ /-----/ /---\ /----/ ---- Frank Fletcher / / / / // / / ffletche-+AT+-uhunix.its.hawaii.edu /-----/ \---/ / // /___ / ffletch-+AT+-carroll1.cc.edu / ___________________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:04:00 -0600 From: alicia rice To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Emily Message-ID: <1378841056-776254-+AT+-mac2.burlington.k12.ia.us> Valthrea said >After seeing so many of this kind of child over so many years, I must ask... >Just *HOW* would we go about stopping this kind of child from happening? Is >there amagic wand? A formula? A cure spell? I wish it known, I am not flaming. I was waffling. I wanted to say something an the subject (such a frightening, terrible toppic) but I didn't know what to say it was basically a wish type of thing. I didn't really want to get into the nature vs. nurture debate which I think is very relevant in cases like that. Sometimes I think when I see things like that and theres no obvious reason for it that maybe we'er building a society that fasters that type of child. Wynd "Wind to thy wings, friend" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:00:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Trek novels Message-ID: For any of you who like the original crew novels, I suggest the one --oh, drat, can't recall title, I think it's *The First Frontier*--in which James T. Kirk is newly appointed to be the captain of the Enterprise, and it's hilarious: * he wants his pal Gary to be his first officer, and is by no means sure of this alien Vulcan named Spock * Spock has a great many reservations about serving under this young human and wants to transfer out * Scotty is so worried about this wet-behind-the-ears youngster mistreating his beloved engines that he is disputing every single order Kirk gives, so Kirk wants him to transfer out * Yeoman Rand is underage and deathly afraid of anyone finding out * Uhura gets mad at Kirk for publicly yelling at Rand * Just graduated from the Academy, Sulu is dismayed at being assigned to the Enterprise instead of a frontier scout ship, simply because Kirk admired his fencing at a tournament, and has NEVER steered anything this big and desperately wants to transfer out * Bones gets off on the wrong foot with Spock over a physical and wonders why Kirk is trying to avoid him * Kirk is aghast that his very first mission is to ferry around the 24th century version of a vaudeville troupe (the description of their invading the bridge, complete with performing dogs full of purple spangles is hysterical *...and then the Klingons show up. It's a fun book! I also like *Uhura's Song* (two of my cats have been named StarFreedom Tailkinker and Bride Cloudshaper) and the one in which she has a crucial role in communicating with another species with the help of a conductor. Most of the ones I like the best are ones which focus on characters, such as the one where Bones loses his memory of being in Starfleet and is an amazing pain in the neck, or the one where Sulu really does ask for a transfer off the ship because he is so frustrated at how his career has stalled. Has Paramount decided to pretty much shelve (sorry!) any more of the novels about the original crew? I saw one about Sulu's daughter, but haven't read it, or bought any for several months. I really don't care for the later ones, I mean post-captain. I've daydreamed about writing a Trek story in which some woman is NOT charmed by Kirk's chauvinistic approach. That really is (I hope!) an anachronism by then. His efforts to charm Gillian in the whale movie were almost embarrassing. I longed to have Bones say, "Jim, this line is dead!" --Barra ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:04:45 -0400 From: Saranhct-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Hormones and the Curse was (Re: Di's...) Message-ID: <960528130443_402256347-+AT+-emout09.mail.aol.com> Ah, yes the curse is so much fun. Every month I used to go manic and insane. Now they are giving me lithium to control the manic behavior. I was also manic at other times and would do stupid things like overspend my budget. Then theres the pain and agony, the hunger for salt, and the entire mess of the period itself. I will be happy after menopause. Lady Sara, LIG and Dryad Extraordinaire ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:09:26 +0000 From: "Vrondi" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:DragonCon/Bedlam's Bard/Rediscovery/TigerBurning Bright/etc.. Message-ID: <199605281610.MAA10608-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> ok, all If anyone posted this, I missed it. When is DragonCon? How much does it cost? It's in Atlanta right? Lemme know, please. ______________________________________________________ Blades: I _loved_ Knight of Ghosts and Shadows ! I thought Summoned To Tourney wasn't quite as good, but still, it was Beth, Eric, and Kory! And alas! No Ren faires in West Virginia! I suggest you also read Bedlam Boyz by Ellen Goun(sp?). It is a prequel of sorts. It's told from Elisabeth and Kayla's points of view. __________________________________________________________ On 28 May 96 hallett-+AT+-sprynet.com wrote: > Has anyone out there read Rediccvery or Tiger Burning Bright? Don't > quote me on this, but I think MZB helped write both (and I think > Norton might have been involved in TBB too). Do they read more like > her style, Mistys, a combo. of both or what? Ok, Rediscovery WAS Misty and MZB. Tiger Burning bright WAS indeed Misty, MZB, and Andre Norton. Rediscovery is a must if you've ever read any of the Darkover books and liked them. It is pretty much a combination of the MZB/Misty styles IMHO. Tiger Burning Bright, I just finished a few weeks ago. Fabulous! Go get it! The book is told from a different character's point of view in different chapters. It's mainly from the points of view of the Dowager Queen, The Queen, and The Princess. And each of the authors writes the part of one of these characters. It really give the individuals a sense of personality because the characters paralell the authors in some ways. Anyone who was is fed up with the "established religion sucks" theme should read this one. A majorly established religion is a big part of the story, and they are the good guys. ______________________________________________________________ Oh, yes, Heralds of Valdemar was origionally a paperback only series I do believe. But the Science Fiction Book Club has a 3-in-1 Hardback edition available. They also have The Tarma/Kethry ones, and Bedlam's Bard. ______________________________________________________________ -Vrondi a.k.a. Free Bard Oriole a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean ________________________________________ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ________________________________________ ==\\ |8| |\ |8| __ o| |8| (__) |8| |__| |8|_|__| \____/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:29:25 -0600 From: Patricia Christianson To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Slightly off-topic help request Message-ID: <19960528172922112.AAA214-+AT+-Default> At 12:53 AM 5/28/96 +0100, you wrote: > >Okey dokey, folks, summer is here and with it the need to find a job. I'm >looking at bookstores -- particularly at "taking over" the fantasy >section of a local bookstore that has expressed an interest in having, >well, better fantasy books. I want recommendations, please please please. >Reply by private email to recary-+AT+-princeton.edu. >What I've got so far (have done little/no serious brainstorming yet): >Misty (of course) >Tanya Huff: Sing the 4 Quarters, Fifth Quarter, No Quarter >MZB: Mists of Avalon, Firebrand -- which Darkover novels should I have >them buy? >Robert Jordan >Douglas Adams > >Pretty pathetic, no? So, please write me with the names/authors of some >of your favorite fantasy, and I will be forever indebted to you. Since >I'll be compiling this into a list, anyone who wants a copy of the >finished product can just ask for it. > >Thank you very very much. > >Becky > >-------------- >When angry, count ten. When very angry, swear. -- Mark Twain > >This is the kind of zany place where you would flirt with your husband's > wife. -- My modern drama prof. > > Piers Anthony David Brin Terry Brooks Lois McMaster Bujold Marion Zimmer Bradly Steven Burst C. J. Cherryh Glen Cook Steven Donaldson David Eddungs Joe Clifford Faust Raymond E. Feist Alan Dean Foster C. S. Friedman Terry Goodkind Barbara Hambly Robert Heinlein Robin Hobb Robert Jordan Gavriel Guy Kay Mercedes Lackey Ursula K.LeGuin Tanith Lee Julian May Elizabeth Moon Judith Tarr Jack Vance Tad Williams Jane Yoland Timothy Zahn Roger Zelazny I hope this list helps. I'm such I'm forgeting someone. Have a great day. Pat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:36:47 -0600 From: alicia rice To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Di's Guardian powers kick in Message-ID: <1378839089-894576-+AT+-mac2.burlington.k12.ia.us> Thessaly said: >2) In A Cast of Corbies, the main characters are Raven, Crow, and MAGPIE, >not Nightengale, Nightengale is a supporting character. On an off-topic >note, I read in Sandman (surely the greatest comic of all times, gods smile >on Neil Gaiman) that it's a murder of crows, a tiding of magpies, an >unkindness of ravens, and a parliament of rooks, who all live in one tree, >"many hundreds of birds to a tree, and a rookery is an obsolete name for a >ghetto of thieves and whores." (Sandman graphic novel Fables and >Reflections, in the story titled A Parliament of Rooks, which has the story >of Adam's three wives, the only place besides The Lion, The Witch, and the >Wardrobe that I've seen THAT story.) > Oh I love Sandman to do you like Vertigo comics to or just Sandman? Wynd "Wind to thy wings, friend" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:18:29 CDT From: "Hth." To: Subject: Re: Guardians/Biography Message-ID: <28MAY96.14372899.0029.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> Don't the Guardian powers only work to protect whatever area you Guard? The demon in Texas was no danger to Manhattan, therefore the Guardian powers didn't roust themselves out to help. That was my impression, but I'd be perfectly sanguine if proved wrong. After agreeing with people who say that Misty's familiarity with witchcraft doesn't make her a witch, I'll add a similar comment about sexuality. Love is love, and anyone with a good imagination can write mad, passionate love affairs to her heart's content. Goodness knows, I have billions of male-female and male-male couples in my writing, whom I hope are touching (well, ahem, I know they are touching), convincing and all of that, but that doesn't make me straight or bisexual, and it sure as heck doesn't make me a gay man. I take a certain amount (okay, a lot) of pride in the fact that those who read my writing respond just as well to Tom and Persis or Rygelen and Taylen as they do to Ambar and Nici. See, writing is all about making stuff up. Oh, and I think people were perfectly within their rights to roast that chap who got accidentally subscribed on a stick. Yes, obviously he was confused and annoyed, but he was also mean as a snake. The moral of the story: when you get subscribed to a list, the proper reply is, "I'm totally lost here, and I know I didn't subscribe to this. How do I get out of this?" Or, "I'm not sure what this is all about. You didn't mean to send this to me, did you?" Or any number of other courteous responses. Not the trash he posted. HTH "It seems I'm expected to save the world." "Oh dear. Do you have the training for that?" --Caroline Stevemer, *A College of Magics* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:47:32 CDT From: "Hth." To: Subject: Warning!!! General Negativity Message-ID: <28MAY96.14895902.0029.MUSIC-+AT+-NEMOMUS> I'm just in a Mood today (and, um, no, it isn't hormonal; I don't have near as much trouble with that sort of thing as some people seem to; mostly I cry at Hallmark commercials and have a stomachache for about a day) so bear with me while I say mean things about Misty. If it will make you cry, please leave this message now. I understand that she does this professionally and so forth, but Misty seems like one of the least sympathetic authors around. She used to be one of the fandom regulars, for God's sake, so you'd think she'd like us more. But she hassles people about fan stuff, won't do any more filk, and never seems to have any contact with the outside world, i.e. us. Why won't she lighten up? I have always been thoroughly impressed with Wendy and Richard Pini (creators of Elfquest). They are warm, they like to talk to their readers and hear feedback. Richard especially is actually on-line, involved with various fan enterprises, posts on the Elfquest website, etc. He doesn't know me from Eve, and the couple of times I've felt like I had something to say and e-mailed him, he responded within a day, very friendly, very communicative. They are every bit as professional as Mercedes Lackey, but they seem to have it figured out that they'd be out of work if we stopped feeling any loyalty to them. I think when a fantasy writer gives up conventions, watch out. I think when a longtime filkaholic quits writing it for copyright reasons, duck. I think when someone who started out writing fan fiction has as little sympathy for fan fiction as Lackey has lately, we're all in trouble. And most of all, I think when a writer is this invisible, this unconnected from a major core of fans, the problem is serious. That interview reminded me how little of that kind of thing Misty does. A lot of people will disagree, but I'd rather she wrote less and talked more. Half of what she's writing these days anyway is lowest-common denominator, IMO. She was a better writer when she was less professional and had more fun. HTH "It seems I'm expected to save the world." "Oh, dear. Do you have the training for that?" --Caroline Stevemer, *A College of Magics* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 14:50:00 -0400 From: Barbara Slater To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tail-kinker and other tricksters - Reply Message-ID: I wrote: >> Misty's use of her character's grandfather as a trickster figure in Sacred Ground is well-done, IMHO. Does anybody know if this is >> the first time theat she uses such a figure in her stories - oops, just realized, she uses Tarma and the Snow-Demon story in one of >>the Oath books,...er, um, aha! Oathbreakers! Remember, the snowball fight in the barracks courtyard, with the kids...? Tarma tells >>Kethry, later, that the Shin'a'nin (sp?) have a whole slew of trickster stories, used to teach their kids about things that can bite them. to which Cennydd replied: >I haven't read Sacred Ground, but I question the characterisation of the the Snow Demon as a "trickster" story. The trickster archtype >is not an evil character. It is, exactly as its eponym suggests, a trickster, a deciever, whathaveyou. The trickster is not some >monster that comes into a group in fair seeming and then devours them. In fact, in most NA mythoi, the trickster figure is a hero. >For a good idea of the trickster, read "Song of the South" and the Uncle Remus stories. Br'er Rabbit is the Cherokee trickster. If >the trickster in Sacred Ground is a villain/monster, it just hardens my resolve to avoid anything that Misty writes which is based on >NA motifs. She mis-handled the Aztec stuff in "Burning Water" and I don't even want to know what she is going to do to the stuff in >Sacred Ground. (BTW, just out of curiousity, is Sacred Ground based on any particular cosmology (Osage, Cherokee, Lakota, etc.) >or is it just a generic NA sort of thing?) to which I answer: Cennydd, The Trickster in Sacred Ground (and he shows up in several guises) is ~not~ an evil character at all, but is primarily a Teacher. ~That~ is the context that I used for the Snow Demon - the monster itself is not the trickster, but ~does~ present something that has to be taught to the youngsters. (Drat! Where's my copy - Cennydd's gonna want textevd! ) The way I understood Tarma's explanation to Kethry, there were a class of stories that were used to teach the younglings of the clan about nasty things. Tarma was surprised that her bondsister didn't know any. Perhaps I should have substituted 'teaching' for 'trickster' in the sentence about the Shin'a'nin stories; that was the meaning in my head, and I'm sorry if anyone thought I was saying the Trickster was a monster. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa... I don't ~know~ that SG was based on any single cosmology - from what was said in the story itself, Grandfather and his PI granddaughter took information from many traditions, on the basis of "Whatever works..." I think you might like SG - but check it out from the library first to see, okay? It's been out long enough there're both hardcover and paperback versions available. Barbara the sigless wonder slaterb-+AT+-musc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 15:08:07 -0400 From: Barbara Slater To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:DragonCon/Bedlam's Bard/Rediscovery/Ti - Reply Message-ID: Vrondi, The DragonCon is June 20th-23rd (Thursday through Sunday), at Atlanta, GA. The cost is $50 right now through May 31, then it goes to $60 at the door. There is a website for the con, and it'll give you info on the hotels, guests and some of the scheduling. The address is: http://www.dragoncon.com Does this mean we'll get to see you there? Yippee! ObMisty: There'll be lots of fun with the Collegia at the con - and I think I heard something about a revel??? Barbara the sigless wonder slaterb-+AT+-musc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 15:16:11 -0400 From: Barbara Slater To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Oooops!!! Address Correction!!! Message-ID: Oops! Put the wrong address down for DragonCon's home page on the web - here's the RIGHT one: http://www.dscga.com/~dragoncon/index.html Sorry 'bout that! brain definitely off-line! Barbara the sigless (and embarassed) wonder slaterb-+AT+-musc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 16:06:51 -0400 From: Shadow-Lover To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Who else cried when Lendel died? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960528200651.006a54f8-+AT+-popd.ix.netcom.com> At 10:18 AM 5/28/96 +0100, you wrote: >hallett-+AT+-sprynet.com wrote: >> >> Lady Windsong asked who else cried when Lendel died. I did. I really liked the >> charactor too. I was so glad he found his way back to Vanyel in his next >> incarnation! Actually, that trilogy brought me to tears several times. Airelle > >I've cried every time I've read those three books. I also cried when >Jadus and Ylsa and Kris died. >As for as Stef being Lendel and not himself, sorry but i disagree 1. The >only ones who knew where Starwind, Moondance, and Savil. even Vanyel >did'nt know until the day he died. -+AT+-. since Stef did'nt know he was just >himself a Master Bard with know memories of any other life. >Kim sullivan/stardance. > Rephrasing the question: Is there anyone who didn't cry when Lendel died? I was in tears for Lendel... I was sobbing for Van... I cried for two hours... I started at the rape scene then read through the tears 'till the end of the book... By the end I was gone... My mother still wonders what made me hysterical... (her word... I wasn't that bad... I was however sitting in the waiting room of a doctor's office...) - Shadow-Lover *************************-E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com-************************ * - Freedom of opinion can only exist when the government thinks itself * * secure... - Bertrand Russell * * * * - Hold on to nothing as fast as you can... * * - Tori Amos * ********************************-IRC: Hairenn-******************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 14:24:26 -0600 From: alicia rice To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lots... Message-ID: <1378829030-1499480-+AT+-mac2.burlington.k12.ia.us> Ailima said: > - Regarding Tylendel's death and associating with Van: > I cried. > It seems that misty used ALOT of "popular" archetypes > in the creation of Vanyel and his plight. > - Difficult childhood > - Father that won't accept what one is > - Teacher/Father trying to change what is > - Loving teddy-bear that leaves (Lyssa) > - Homosexual character and problems inherent. > - Forgiveness/Expansion > - Death of a Lover/Loved One. > - etc etc... > Now what ISN'T there to associate with? Writers write about life and....unfortunately that's life. Wynd "Wind to thy wings, friend" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 16:31:55 -0400 From: Soljan-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Of classes.... Message-ID: <960528163154_205497136-+AT+-emout18.mail.aol.com> Lady Windsong writes: >BTW, hands >up everyone who cried when 'Lendel died? I really like him! Who else does? That would be me. It took me a sec after I read it, then it hit me. Like a brick(or a fast flung coconut.) That book practicaly forced me to make signs for my door with different levels on them. IE: Level 1- no knock, light work or reading, Level 5- GO AWAY! I'm not home! and all the levels in between. I was weeping the rest of the night after I finished that, because it brought back all the depression I felt from several years ago. LHM books are now an automatic level 3. (I will not make conversation, might not do work for a while) My mom complained, but it's staying that way. Gee, I really am suited to my position as leader of the SDMF's. Maybe I should change it to DDMF. Depressed Dateless Misty Fans. I think it would fit better anyway. Lady Silvermoon Leader of DDMF "May the moon light your path and guide you to your destiny." ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 96 16:25:45 EDT From: Jake <102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: Filk Origins Message-ID: <960528202545_102744.2515_GHT78-1-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Tensen wrote: . .> Ok, I have been puzzeling for several weeks now... I can't take it .> anymore.... What is a "filk"?!?!?!!? Most of the acronyms in use .on this .> list eventually explain themselves, but not filk... PLEASE! Tell .me what it .> means???? .. .Ah, filk can't exaplin itself that easily, because it isn't an .acronym. .Technically its science-fiction/fantasy folk music. But the story .being .that someone mislabled the first ones as filk, and as typically .occurs, .someone decided they liked that new term and continued using it.. An explanation of the origins of the term filk is in that big interview I posted a couple of days ago. I have a big explanation, but me-+AT+-laptop and file-+AT+-computer. Jake ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 16:58:48 -0400 From: michele meredith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Trek novels Message-ID: <31AB6908.1D24-+AT+-prolog.net> Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell wrote: > > For any of you who like the original crew novels, I suggest the one > --oh, drat, can't recall title, I think it's *The First Frontier*--in > which James T. Kirk is newly appointed to be the captain of the > Enterprise, and it's hilarious: > >Hi, Everyone or just the person that wrote this anyway. I'm new on this list and I'm not quite sure what the heck I'm doing. PLEASE, someone help me! If someone wouldn't mind could someone explain what exactly is going on. Thank you! The Star Trek book that she is talking about is actually called *Enterprise - The First Adventure* by Vonda N McIntyre. I definitely recommend it if you want a good laugh. Love, luck, and lollipops - Mishi P.S. My e-mail is mishi-+AT+-prolog.net if there is anyone out there willing to help a lost soul. ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 96 16:58:13 EDT From: Jake <102744.2515-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> To: M-L mailing list Subject: Re: On RPG's and poor authors | Heyyy 'Reesaaaa! Message-ID: <960528205812_102744.2515_GHT209-1-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> Kaatje wrote: >> What a disappointment [Silver Gryphon was] compared to AotQ, or especially The Last Herald-Mage series. She just doesn't have the same quality there--especially situation development. Her character development has remained relatively strong (I cite Tremane as a good example), but has anyone else gotten the feeling that all of her locations feel rather generic? << Yes! >> I mean, in AotQ, I was *there*, on the road, in the waystation and at the Collegium. I could visualize these places, and I had a pretty good handle on what they *felt* like. In Mage Wars, and in Mage Winds, sure my pre-programmed "Haven model" kicks in and supplies the necessary atmosphere, but there really isn't a sensation of "being there" like I usually have when I read a good novel. << I think Robert Jordan put it best, in a letter he posted on the TOR site apologizing about the late arrival of _A Crown of Swords._ He compared creativity to a well. You can only draw on the well for so long before it tends to dry up. Then you have to wait until it fills up again. Misty's hitting the bottom, it seems. She's pulling up the last few inches of water, and then, poof. She'll be writing formula novels. Maybe she should take a step back and only write one novel at a time instead of several. _____________________________________ Just a side note: 'Reesa?!?!?! Where are you???? I know you're onlist. Come on. Come back! Stars Bright Thy Path, Jake Jake / Rynath In Green 102744.2515-+AT+-compuserve.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked. -- The old code of Bowen, last of the dragonslayers ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 582 *********************************