MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 594 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Gems, Rocks and Minerals - Reply by Salli Bird 2) Re: Gems, Rocks and Minerals - Reply by Salli Bird 3) Re: braiding by Salli Bird 4) Re: Good cry reads by Salli Bird 5) Re: Misty a bi witch?Topical? by Salli Bird 6) Re: Eddings/secondary worlds/ marriages by Salli Bird 7) Re: GURPS by Salli Bird 8) Re: mail bouncing/etc... by "Vrondi" 9) Re:lots of things by Rosario Holsen-Baker 10) Re: king fan by Gorbfam-+AT+-aol.com 11) Re: mail bouncing/etc... by michele meredith 12) who's gonna die by michele meredith 13) Re:Same-sex marriages. by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 14) Re: Sexual Preference by Heart-Song 15) Re: Stef after Van died by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 16) Re: Author burnout by DAA815-+AT+-aol.com 17) Nightie/AOL/IRC by kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah M Postrech) 18) Re: Eddings/secondary worlds/ marriages by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 14:42:24 -0500 From: Salli Bird To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gems, Rocks and Minerals - Reply Message-ID: <19422459006427-+AT+-misslink.net> At 03:44 PM 5/31/96 +0100, you wrote: >Valthrea wrote: >>At last! Another professed rock nut!!! I was believing I would find one here! I have a small collection of tumbled, cut and rough; gemstones, >>rocks and minerals. When we got married yesterday, we exchanged rings which we designed using stones from my collection, peridots, garnets >>and a cut topaz...Have you ever wanted to do that? > >>OBMisty: Did anyone collect rocks in the Misty books? Did they design their own wedding rings? >>Valthrea aka the Bird Woman > >Congratulations on your wedding! May you and your partner create success and happiness and great goodness in this new level of your >relationship! You and your loved have a lot of happy work ahead of you... > >I've never seriously designed rings with my tumbled stones, because I don't wear many rings - too much handiwork to put up with the snags and >excess weight involved. > >The prize of my collection is a twinned, double-terminated rock crystal, 5 inches long. Got it at a Toledo OH gem & mineral show for $10, 23 >years ago. Do you get to collect your own stuff? My problem is that I don't know how to find out where to find what, and how to get access to >good sites. Practically all my stuff is from the Toledo shows, because the ones that've come through here (Charleston, SC) haven't been very >good. I can see where that one would be the prize! The double terminated quartz crystals are rather rare. I have collected quite a few of my collection myself, because I have lived out of big cities so much. It is really fun to go to a stream side and pick up my own geodes, and glacial till. Also, the major stone on my ring is a topaz I found at a rock show in Denver several years ago for $60. To get my sunstone, I had to get on a plane and travel to New Jersey... That was fun, also... >ObMisty: I think, for my persona, I'll develop a character who's a rock collector and hedgewizard. Sounds like it might be an interesting project Yes, it does! I think when I finally develop a persona for this group, instead of using my main character from my one and only published short story, it will be more fun to build from something I know and love to do. >.. Is the vrondi spell wearing off now in Valdemar? Will hedgewizards start showing up now there, or will they have to come in from >OutKingdom? > >Barbara > > Valthrea aka the Bird Woman May you always fly as high as the eagle bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 14:42:19 -0500 From: Salli Bird To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gems, Rocks and Minerals - Reply Message-ID: <19421924206426-+AT+-misslink.net> At 03:37 PM 5/31/96 +0100, you wrote: >Arielle wrote: >>I can't recall anyone collecting rocks in a Misty story. (I avidly collect rocks though!) However, Elspeth did design a private, secretive >>"wedding ring" for Darkwind by having a hertsai create a ring that was made partly of the hair from Gwena's mane or tail (I can't specifically >>remember which). Darkwind, of course, gave her the appropriate feathers to braid into her hair as a wedding gift. > >IIRC, it was Gwena's tail the hair came from, probably because the hair would have been longer and stronger and better able to withstand >handling. If I'm wrong on this, don't blast - me-+AT+-work, books-+AT+-home, won't be able to check on it until after midnight. > >Arielle, I think you and Valthrea and I could probably make up a 'rock group' of our own , but what would we use for a name? The Halites? > >Barbara > > > > Rock group? How about the "Tourmalines"? Valthrea aka the Bird Woman May you always fly as high as the eagle bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 14:42:29 -0500 From: Salli Bird To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: braiding Message-ID: <19422946706428-+AT+-misslink.net> At 04:44 PM 5/31/96 +0100, you wrote: > >_____________________________________________ > >Re: Gems, rocks, and minerals, SalliBird wrote: > >> OBMisty: Did anyone collect rocks in the Misty books? Did they design their >> own wedding rings? > >I seem to recall Kero mentioning that she carves gemstones into >figurines. At one point, I think she regrets leaving her tools behind at the >Skybolts' winter quarters. Also, when she's grabbing her stuff after >quitting the Skybolts, she considers selling the tools. (Again, >sorry, no actual textevd.) Thanks for the reminder... >___________________________________________ > >Re: Weak writing, Diana Heald wrote: > >> Perhaps the problem is that you've grown so accustomed to the >> stories, people, style that there is no excitement any more. > >And Cindy wrote: > >> And sometimes they are exploring a lot different >> issues than the ones which were in the early books. The questions which >> Misty has to deal with as an author have changed. > >This is just MHO, of course, but I really think it's more than that. >I really think that the quality has gone down. The characters and >plots have less depth. Yes, the issues and questions have >changed, and that's fine with me. But now, it seems like she's >hitting me over the head with the issues, instead of letting them >evolve on their own. I don't think the newer books are "drek", and I >don't think Misty is hitting bottom, but I do think her recent stuff >isn't as good as her older stuff. On the other hand, it's better than >some other authors out there. > >And as for getting accustomed to the stories, style, etc, I don't >think so. I reread books countless times. If a book I've read 27 >times is still exciting, I don't think this explains my feeling. > >But that's just MO, for what it's worth (probably a lot less than the >going rate!). > > >Tammy > I wonder...couldn't the reason the opinion that Misty's writing has changed be due to the fact that she has changed perspective? Even if she is writing about the same world, if a writer changes perspective, the style and content will change. And we, being human dislike change? Only my opinion, of course... Valthrea aka the Bird Woman May you always fly as high as the eagle bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 14:42:38 -0500 From: Salli Bird To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Good cry reads Message-ID: <19423856006430-+AT+-misslink.net> At 09:09 PM 5/31/96 +0100, you wrote: >Lady Bard Kadessa wrote: >> Count me in on that, too! I *love* Card's work! In fact, it was >>Ender's Game that got me hooked. Unfortunately, nobody around here >>reads him either (or Misty or any others of my favorite authors...=( >). >> It's awful not having anyone to talk to about books. If I try with >my >>family or friends, they just nod and say "That's nice." When I get >>excited over a book, they look at me oddly. >> The next book I'm getting out of the library is Alvin Journeyman, >#4 >>in the Alvin Maker Series. :) I'm dying to read it. >> >> >I only knew one other person who read SF/F before I joined this list. >I knew *someone* had to be buying all the other books on the bookstore >shelf, but I didn't know a darned one of them! I've been enjoying all >my favorite books in silence for years.....now I get to talk to >everyone here, What Fun!!!!! (Yes 5)(deserves 10!) > >I love Card too, except his last series fell flat. Anybody else have >that reaction? > >AliFarr (delurking for moments) > No. I thought he had improved. _____________________________________________________________________ I was going to answer the writing in the books question elsewhere, but I forgot where I put the braid, so I will poke it in here... Yes, if I own the book, I will write in the margin, I will underline, I will highlight! It makes finding that reference much easier, helps me to remember the point I was going to include in a note to someone, and is a general warning to myself not to throw it away or sell the book. Valthrea aka the Bird Woman May you always fly as high as the eagle bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 14:42:34 -0500 From: Salli Bird To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Misty a bi witch?Topical? Message-ID: <19423457406429-+AT+-misslink.net> At 06:37 PM 5/31/96 +0100, you wrote: > > >On Fri, 31 May 1996, Salli Bird wrote: > >> As to this being off-topic, I don't understand why it should be considered >> so. It is related to what has been discussed openly here. Why should this go >> in the closet? Don't you think it would be an injustice to the others who >> are lurking and possibly thinking much along the lines I am but don't have >> the courage to say so? And might not have the courage to join in? > >Offtopic? No, this is clearly a part of Misty's writing. It is discussed >here a lot, in fact I think it maybe belongs in the FAQ! I doubt anybody >on either side of this issue is going to convert sombody from the other >side on this list and I'd hate to see this topic take over the list. I >mean, I read fantasy to get away from reality! > My point was, why hide one side of the topic and not the other? >Having said that I guess I owe you all a statement of my position. I'm >straight, tried the other wasn't me. I have no problem with people who >are Gay (other than their taking over a word I liked so I can't use it >for it's real meaning anymore without prople smirking, that is:)) I don't >know how God feels about this-but that's their problem on Judgement Day >not mine (I'm sure I'll be busy enough explaining my own sins that I >won't have time to worry about others, don't now for that matter.) >I have been a devout(Morning Prayer on weekdays, Eucharist on Sundays) >member of the Episcopal Church (anglo-catholic, for those who don't know >what the heck I'm talking about) for 29 years (i'm 36.) The Bishop who >confirmed me 23 years ago has ordained Gays into the priesthood, much to >the dismay of the same fossils who were aghast at the idea of female priests >20+ years ago. I expect in the fullness of time we'll have Gay Bishops also. > >I put this all in because I'm tired of hate mongers from certain denominations >turning the words Christian or catholic into synonyms for closed-minded. >Christanity is about love and redemption, not hate and exclusion. > >David (quite a gay fellow really) Tiffany > The matter of how God feels about it is clear. Anybody who cares, I direct your attention to the first chapter of Romans. I did not start expressing myself on this subject due to that however. If that had been my motivation, I would have simply blasted away, and left... Matter of fact, I wouldn't have read the books, or searched for this mailing list. I have to agree with David. But, I would expand on it. Please don't explode til I am done, ok? I am tired of the following list of actions performed as a way of engendering hatred and prejudice: politically correct coercion assumptions not based in fact leading to prejudice mis-reading of content reading into what was said These also produce the closed mind. Valthrea aka the Bird Woman May you always fly as high as the eagle bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 14:42:45 -0500 From: Salli Bird To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Eddings/secondary worlds/ marriages Message-ID: <19424508906431-+AT+-misslink.net> At 10:15 PM 5/31/96 +0100, you wrote: > > Marriages: > > THIS IS JUST MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION: > > My first husband was gay or maybe bi, although I suspect gay. My >foster brother is gay, and one of the best people in my life. I am not >gay. > My first husband married me, I am convinced, because he desperately >wanted to fit into society and please those who were important to him. >His sexual identity terrified him, and he thought that by getting >married, it would "fix" him. It didn't; he ended up living what amounted >to a double life, and the stress did a lot of damage to him. He was an >alcoholic and possibly cross-addicted to drugs. By the time we >separated, he had undergone a total personality change, for the worse. > Was it a personality change or was it the addictions? >He died, aged 35, of AIDS, after horrible, terrible suffering. That is an increasing problem in our society, and I wonder if it is not due in part to what you mentioned above of his trying to please those important to him and not living the truth. Many of us do the same, no matttter our sexual preferences, and end up paying a ghastly price. > Having said that, I want to say more: > It is bedrock belief of mine that if our society had been less >punishing and intolerant, he would not have married me, he would not >have undergone such emotional and psychological torture to the point >where he began to get self-destructive, believing that he had become a >total degenerate deserving of death. NO ONE deserves to have AIDS. His >mother did not deserve to be filled with feelings of guilt and failure. >I have come to understand that while he and I *both* contributed to our >failed relationship, neither one of us was solely to blame, and one of >our biggest problems was the unexpressed fears which prevented us from >communicating honestly for all too long. I know that whatever other >problems existed, his alcoholism began with his desire for some relief, >and that it made all the other problems worse. It made us both crazy. My >ignorance and lack of knowledge about gay people did not help much, >either, and I regret that profoundly. > If only we could have been honest at the beginning....but that is >hindsight. > Personally, I alienated a lot of people after his death by insisting >on telling the truth. Most of them didn't want to hear or believe >it--and some could not understand why I refused to disown my foster >brother, who was a much bigger comfort and support to me than my hetero >family. But I felt compelled to tell the truth in case there were some >married friends of ours in which one spouse might be hetero and have no >idea of the other's being gay or bi, and therefore endangered by that >other person's possible activities--and their children possibly too, >born or unborn. (This happened 11 yrs. ago when less was known about its >transmission) Would it have been morally right for me to keep my mouth >shut? I don't think so. > I don't mean to debate that--it was my decision, and my beliefs >which dictated it. > What I want to get across is my feeling that if someone is gay or >bi, they should be honest about it to the other person in a >different-sex marriage. I learned the hard way that to live with lies >makes people sick in more than one way. If someone I love lies to me, >how can I trust him or her, and if I cannot trust, I cannot love. > > Whew! I am now climbing down off my soapbox.... > > --Barra > > > > > > > Valthrea aka the Bird Woman May you always fly as high as the eagle bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 14:42:52 -0500 From: Salli Bird To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: GURPS Message-ID: <19425208006433-+AT+-misslink.net> As soon as I can, I will do so. Also, I have only heard of GURPS, not been priviledged to participate, so I will need what ever you can include... Of course, you will need to tell us your address.... Thanks.... At 07:01 PM 6/1/96 +0100, you wrote: >To All My RPG friends > OK. Given Misty's attitude about people playing in her backyard, and >given that this Gurps stuff is a Work in Progress, I'd prefer to snail mail >this stuff. If you are in the US, send me a SASE, manila preferably, it's >large, and I'll snail mail it to you. I will (with your permission) keep >your addresses, and snail updates to you at my expense. If you are NOT in >the USA, email me, we'll make arrangements. This is mostly to avoid legal >hassles, and also because I was looking it over, and I want the extra time to >do some cleaning up. Also, let me know if you're a regular GURPS player, >because if you're not, you'll have to get the Basic book, I'm co-writing a >supplement. > Thanks for your support. > Thess > Valthrea aka the Bird Woman May you always fly as high as the eagle bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 16:08:31 +0000 From: "Vrondi" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mail bouncing/etc... Message-ID: <199606021909.PAA25314-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> On 2 Jun 96 Lady Windsong wrote: > I wonder where *my* mail has to bounce to...... Hey, everybody! How would I check this? _______________________________________________________________ Awesome quote, Glith! Welcome to the list. _______________________________________________________________ If I were to start reading Terry Pratchett, what book should I begin with? _______________________________________________________________ Do any of you all ever IRC? ______________________________________________________________ -Vrondi a.k.a. Free Bard Oriole a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean ________________________________________ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ________________________________________ ==\\ |8| |\ |8| __ o| |8| (__) |8| |__| |8|_|__| \____/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 18:12:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:lots of things Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Jun 1996, Lady Wintersong wrote: > >Ann of Green Gables > Esmeralda, 'tis Anne of Green Gables. > And as I recall, Anne made a big stink about that e in her young years. :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Lady Silvermoon wrote: obMisty- I know there are fairs in Velgarth because Firesong, Darkwind, Elspeth and Nyara joined one. But what kinds of games do they play there? Probably the same kind as you'd find at RenFaire (yes, that again. Can you tell I'm obsessive? :). Knife throwing, bow shoots, mock swordfights or jousting, probably wrestling. |~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*LADY JAGUAR*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~| | Leader of the Cat People * Lady in Green * LGMCB Conspirator * DHTBB Lobe | | "I believe That if you knew just what these tears were for | | They would just pour Like every drop of rain..." | | --Tears for Fears "I Believe"-- | ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 20:17:26 -0400 From: Gorbfam-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: king fan Message-ID: <960602201725_547836404-+AT+-emout08.mail.aol.com> Lady Nightshadow I'm kind of new using this Email, so I apologize in advance for any faux pas.... My favorite King novel was IT. Definitely spooky. Other good authors in this genre are Dean Koontz (Strangers) and Robert McCammon (Swan Song). However, my favorites will always be Fantasy & SF. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 20:33:49 -0400 From: michele meredith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mail bouncing/etc... Message-ID: <31B232ED.4BDB-+AT+-prolog.net> Vrondi wrote: ____________________________________________________________ > Do any of you all ever IRC? > ______________________________________________________________ > -I haven't tried IRC yet, but I want to give it a try. I have to find out about the client and server and how exactly I get on it. Once I figure that out I'm going to get on it. Drop me a note if you would like to chat and we will figure out when we both would be available to get on at the same time. Love, luck, and lollipops Mishi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 20:49:16 -0400 From: michele meredith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: who's gonna die Message-ID: <31B2368C.5B06-+AT+-prolog.net> I can't find what I'm looking for, and I have to be somewhere soon, so I give up. I think that either Karal or Natoli are going to die in the next book, maybe both of them. Everything seems to go against Karal. In the first book, his mentor dies. In the second book, he gets accused of being a traitor, Natoli almost dies, and Karal himself almost dies in the end. Is it just me or does Misty have it in for Karal? Love, luck and lollipops Mishi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 10:52:46 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Same-sex marriages. Message-ID: <9606030052.AA14347-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Valthea wrote: > At 01:45 PM 5/31/96 +0100, Loke quoted Kerry: > >> > >> This is not a flame. (Repeat, three times..) > >> But. I don't believe anyone's asking you to understand gay pairings. > >> No one's asking you to care for them, in the sense of running out and > >> forming one. > >> What we (gay/bi/straight-and-friendly *) ask is tolerance at the least, > >> calm acceptance preferably. Now the situation you mentioned above (gays > >> and lesbians hiding in straight marriages) would occur a damn sight less > >> if there were a little less prejudice in the military and generally. > >> In point of fact, I believe that outside the military, the incidence of > >> people -needing- to hide themselves like that has lessened dramatically > >> in the last decade or two. > >> > > If you would care for the text of my response to Loki's "flame" I will be > glad to forward. It will be the unabridged, uncorrected version. Excuse me, but that was actually my (Kerry's) text and I did state that I hoped it wouldn't be read as a flame. Nor have I, as yet, received a reasonable response.. As far as I know, Loki has not flamed you on the list (ie I haven't seen a response from him directed at you). And I find myself rather resenting your implication that I abridged or corrected your version, considering that I went out of my way to quote the -entire- text from you without snippage, precisely so that your statements would not be misrepresented. However, it's possible that you read a snipped version of my posting, so I'll forward it to you personally. > >> People can be bi y'know.. Some people in a hetero marriage with kids are > >> actually bi. You're right, kids are a nice bonus.. But your use of the > >> words "bent" vs "normal" and the implication that gay people commonly > >> hide behind spouses who have no clue, is unkind, untrue and for want of > >> a better word, bigoted. Note that even in Loki's example, (which, no offense > >> Loki, I don't believe is all that common outside the military) he was > >> talking about gay & *LESBIAN* marriages, not gay people hiding behind > >> straight partners. And the reason Loki was talking about those was because > >> of the fact that they're discriminated against, compared to hetero pairings. > > Slight correction to the above: I did not use bent vs normal. Excuse me, but you did and I quoted you as such! See below. "Valthea wrote: > For some of the bent sexual preferences who want to "appear" normal, many > marry just to have the benefits of the norm amount of kids, and a spouse who > has no clue. > It is so wonderful to ahve a situation like that to hide behind." Kerry wrote: > >> I imagine you might have offended more than a few members on the list. > >> NOT, I hasten to add, because of your opinions primarily (they're yours, > >> you're entitled to them, regardless of how right or wrong other people may > >> think them), but because of the non-objective and biased way you wrote. > >> Had you said "I'm not comfortable with same-sex pairings, and they're not > >> for me." you would have been within your rights. But your note read very > >> much as "I don't like same-sex pairings, they're not for me and they > >> shouldn't be for anyone else either." The former message is you asserting > >> your individual rights. The latter is imposing on other people's individual > >> rights. > > "I" offended? Might I ask a few questions for clarification? > Do you know me? Yes, -you- offended. Your post sounded very intolerant and more than a little prejudiced. Not bad for 8 lines. I've read a few of your posts on the list, but no, I don't have the pleasure of knowing you personally. However, I would point out that I don't need to know someone personally to be offended by something that they say. > Does the way you convey the thought rather mean that I am fearful of the > subject? It seems to me it does. I don't see that implication in what I wrote, personally. > Doesn't it seem that the interpretation of my statements are putting too > much emphasis on "politically correct" sentiments? No. You clearly used biased language and the tone of your post was quite pronounced to that viewpoint. If I were to say "I don't believe that wops/jews/japs/blah should have the vote" then you would be well within your rights to take me to task -regardless- of whether it was politically correct. Ask around the list - I'm not a PC nazi-enforcer. :) > Did I say that they shouldn't be for anybody else? No, I did not. Not explicitly, no. The whole tenor of your post however, was rabidly intolerant. > And since when is the freedom of speech curtailed for an opposing view? I don't recall advocating that freedom of speech be curtailed. In fact if you actually read my reply, you might note that I explicitly stated that this was a -discussion- and as such opposing views are implicitly welcome. If you care to drag this discussion back onto either the topic, or the text of what was actually said, I'd be glad to continue it with you, either on the list or over private email. Regards, Kerry. "Do not tell fish stories where the people know you; but particularly, don't tell them where they know the fish." -- Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 15:20:54 -1000 From: Heart-Song To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List Subject: Re: Sexual Preference Message-ID: > Same-Sex Pairings: >>I will probably be flamed seriously for this, but so be it... >>I don't understand so-called "same-sex" pairings and I never will. >>I don't care to. It is the only part of Misty's writings I do not care > for. > I won't even bother except to ask why YOU did? You expressed an >opinion...thats fine...everybody's perogative. Because you had the >right didn't mean you had to do it. :) I was trying to figure out why you said all that you did. You answered (to someone else) that you were trying to give an opposing view-point. I have a few comments and questions on this quote: This whole subject is not only about whats "politically correct", it's also about emotion. To a person who comes from a society that has had to endure so many years of general social ostracism, these comments come with a very sharp edge. With a history like that, one voice can make it seem like the world has (or rather, "is still") turned against you. Now I understand that you were giving an opposing viewpoint. But I did not when I first read your letter. I didn't see any reference to a previously expressed view. I don't remember seeing much in the way of reference, full-stop. Thats not to say there wasn't one. But what I AM trying to say is that with a topic that is so emotional, it is a good idea to explain everything as clearly as possible. Otherwise, emotions (or pc), have a tendancy to draw all focus. Next comment regards the "I don't care to" that I underlined in the first reply. This bothered me a little. To me, it seemed like you were trying to say one of three things (and not clearly defining which). - "I don't understand it, nor do I want to educate myself in order to do so" (ignorance) - "I've given it serious thought, but still don't understand it. I doubt I ever will, so I'll close myself off from ever trying again." (still ignorance...but much more polite) - "I don't understand it. I don't want to understand it because I think it is below me, and wrong." (a perfectly good comment except for what it leaves out...the implication taht it is wrong for others and they shouldn't do this, and those thats do are XXXX, etc etc. Quite often, with heavy emotion (or pc), what you may unconsciously (or consciously) imply can be read as expressed fact. (Not only that but it's easy to jump on!) ) All in all, I think this may have just been a miscommunication due to a possibly not-very-well thought out (or rushed or whatever), unclear posting. >>Go ahead, flame away... > Is this what you expected/wanted? What I was trying to ask here was whether or not this is what you wanted...the attention of possible flamers. That was one of the only reasons I could think of for writing what you did at the time, either grandstanding/preaching or desiring (or needing) any kind of attention. This may have been unfair of me, and I apologize if that was indeed the case. > Sorry...just didn't understand what you or the rest of us got out >of that. :) Again, just expressing my lack of understanding regarding what you were trying to say. > Why I did what? Why you wrote what you did. But you've already answered that. :) > In this day and atmosphere, yes, I expected to be flamed. I know you did. That's why I asked the question. :) I will be sending this to the list in general. This decision was made after a short debate with myself regarding how personal this should be. In the end, I felt that the whole list might get something out of what is written (even if what I have said is totally wrong :). It might help to better understand each other, which in turn might help us end this difficult topic. :) Now does it sound like _I_ am bandstanding? Probably huh? Well, I apologize. I do not mean to sound like I hold all the answers or that I am absolutely right and that because of that, everybody should hear what I have to say. *laugh* Oh boy...how in the world am I going to end this in such a way as to be able to redeem myself??? I don't know whether what I have written is true or valid...it is an expression of some semi-opinions of mine based on my understanding (or lack thereof) of the situation. THERE, I hope that was good enough! :) Blessed Be, Ailima. / / / Ailima-+AT+-TMI-2 || RydWorld / / / Karuna-+AT+-UNItopia || The Mud Hut /=====/ /----/ /----/ /----\ /=== / / /----/ / // / / /-----/ / / /==== /====// / / / _______________________________/ /-----/ /---\ /----/ ---- Frank Fletcher / / / / // / / ffletche-+AT+-uhunix.its.hawaii.edu /-----/ \---/ / // /___ / ffletch-+AT+-carroll1.cc.edu / ___________________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 11:26:49 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Stef after Van died Message-ID: <9606030126.AA14555-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> (Side note: Watch the attributions people - a few of 'em have been going a bit wonky lately and it gets a little confusing). :) Kristin wrote: > Reesa wrote: > > I was asking because as Stefen, he was lifebonded to Van. Not as > > Tylendel reincarnated, but as Stefen. And despite what anyone says to try > > and convince me differently, they weren't the same person. The soul was the > > same, but it had learned something from being 'Lendel. Stef and 'Lendel did > > not make the same mistakes, and did not love Van in the same way. > > So, back to the original point, did Stef spend the rest of his days > > frustrated, or did he have companionship? > > I'm sure he was VERY frustrated. Very lonely, too. It was only the fact > Van had given him a job to do and promised that *eventually* he could > come up to the Forest of Sorrows and join his love that kept him going. > He may have had the "companionship" of friends or maybe an occasional > lover, but it was probably 50 or 60 very sad and lonely years for him. > > Remember, Vanyel himself lived fifteen or so years with a broken > lifebond, and before he was bonded to Stefen was sure he'd never love > that deeply again. In MPromise he was still brooding and grieving every > Sovvan-night and it has been 12 years. Only being Chosen and his Heraldic > duty kept Van alive - and it took awhile to convince him that WAS a > reason to live! Mmmm, I'm not sure it was that bad actually - I think you're underestimating Stef's resiliance. Admittedly Van had left him, but Stef knew that Van was waiting for him and that once he completed the task before him, that he could be with him forever. As Stef said - he was willing to die for Van, he ought to be willing to live for him as well. The knowledge that your love is waiting for you helps cushion the loss - as the old platitude goes - they're out of sight, not out of mind, just around the corner. I think he'd have missed Van terribly and been terribly keen to get to get the job done and be with him, but I just can't see vivacious, full-of-life Stef moping around for the next 60 years like a character out of a bad Bards tale. That said, I can't see him being celibate for the rest of his life.. Nor, I think, would Van have really expected him to be.. Remember, even Van had the occasional lover after Tylendel (and before Stef). Cheers, Kerry. "Sometimes it's a country, and sometimes it's a girl. You know, everybody got to have a purpose in this world." -- Sarah Bear ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 21:34:36 -0400 From: DAA815-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Author burnout Message-ID: <960602213435_547882803-+AT+-emout12.mail.aol.com> re: Writer burnout - Lackey, McCaffrey and others - Come on guys - I think our expectiations are out of hand - lets face it - we're spoiled. We get so attached to characters we want more in-deth/background ( what did happen in Karse ? She's gotta tell us eventually... You young writers are hungry, and all of u college pups and younger still have a high level of idealism/low level of 'sell-out'. Like Charles Barcley says : I'm an athelete - not a role model. If she can make more than a good buck turning a short story like the recent SG into a book - more power to her. She's not living it up in Cannes - she's in OK, saving birds etc - sounds like she's put at least some of her money where her heart is ... Her Heralds are taught to judge both sides, her fans owe her no less... enjoy what she has given us, and hope the next effort meets our 'standards' or desires to find out more in our area of choice... I'm on the list of those that expected more from SG, but I enjoyed it none the less. If she's spreading herself too thin - she'll find out from this kind of feedback I'm sure - in the meantime - relax and enjoy whats avail and hope the best or better is yet to come ! Dont sweat the small stuff - life is too short !! - Debbie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 18:56:17 -0700 From: kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah M Postrech) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Nightie/AOL/IRC Message-ID: <199606030156.SAA06139-+AT+-dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > >>>No, dearie. I know what it was! You didn't want to be called >>>Moonie anymore ! > >>You could call her Nightie. (ducks from Lady Nightshadow, just in >>case) >You know, when I changed my name that was one of the first things I >thought of. I thought, Ha! Now Jake can't call me Moonie anymore. Then >I thought, but he could call me Nightie. Then I thought, na nobody's >going to call me that. >Maybe I was wrong! > >Lady Nightshadow When I saw your new name, it was the first thing I though of. ::grins:: Thanks for not throwing any coconuts or what-not at me. :) You know, I don't think Jake even got this post, so maybe you're safe. I promise I won't call you Nightie anymore, Nightie. ::grins:: Okay, I'll be good. :) How's Shady? :] ----------------------------------------------------------- While I'm thinking of it, how do all of you on AOL manage the mail from this list? I can't even imagine it! Also, have you heard about the 20/20 plan for AOL--$20 for 20 hours? ------------------------------------------------------------ About IRC, I can't figure out how it works. Could someone who knows help me out? (Private e-mail to kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com) ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 12:16:13 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Eddings/secondary worlds/ marriages Message-ID: <9606030216.AA14871-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Barbara wrote: > Personally, I alienated a lot of people after his death by insisting > on telling the truth. Most of them didn't want to hear or believe > it--and some could not understand why I refused to disown my foster > brother, who was a much bigger comfort and support to me than my hetero > family. But I felt compelled to tell the truth in case there were some > married friends of ours in which one spouse might be hetero and have no > idea of the other's being gay or bi, and therefore endangered by that > other person's possible activities--and their children possibly too, > born or unborn. (This happened 11 yrs. ago when less was known about its > transmission) Would it have been morally right for me to keep my mouth > shut? I don't think so. > I don't mean to debate that--it was my decision, and my beliefs > which dictated it. > What I want to get across is my feeling that if someone is gay or > bi, they should be honest about it to the other person in a > different-sex marriage. I learned the hard way that to live with lies > makes people sick in more than one way. If someone I love lies to me, > how can I trust him or her, and if I cannot trust, I cannot love. Whole-heartedly seconded Barbara! I just wanted to add though, that your partner's possible activities are -always- a possible danger, regardless of whether that person is having hetero or homo sex. I mention this, not to diminish the importance of what you said, but because of the dangerous trend of society to believe that hetero sex is safe and that AIDS and the like are purely gay transmitted diseases. They're not. And there are other things out there that are pretty much as bad. As Barbara said, play safe & be honest - regardless of the type of relationship. (Damn.. someone wants the soapbox.. gotta go.) :) Cheers, Kerry. "This above all, to thine own self be true." ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 594 *********************************