MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 595 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: who's gonna die by "Kristin A. Ruhle" 2) Re: Dragonlance / Gurps / Same-sex marriages. by Becky Cary 3) Re: Dragonlance / Gurps / Same-sex marriages. by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 4) Re: Whoops. by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 5) Re: Rawn (spoilers?) by 6) Re: Misty a bi witch/writing from experience by alicia rice 7) Re:Trek books/Tolkien/Mcaffrey/Elspeth by alicia rice 8) Re: mail bouncing/etc... by 9) Re: Misty a bi witch?Topical? by Summer is icumen in! 10) Re:Trek books/Tolkien/Mcaffrey/Elspeth by Summer is icumen in! 11) Re: Welcome\Crying by Summer is icumen in! 12) Re: personas|underlining|Roberson|=-=-= by Summer is icumen in! 13) Re: Adams Three Wives was Re: C.S. Lewis by Sandra K Haas 14) PowWow :) by Becky Anne Christensen 15) Re: Author burnout by Carolyn Taylor 16) Re: Dragonlance / Gurps / Same-sex marriages. by Carolyn Taylor 17) Re: who's gonna die by kerowyn-+AT+-annex.com 18) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 594 by 19) Re: mail bouncing/etc...(read: Re: IRC) by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) 20) Re: Same-sex marriages by JSteinb103-+AT+-aol.com 21) Re: Of classes.... by Wildfire 22) Re: Good cry reads by alicia rice 23) Re: PowWow/Adam's wives/C.S. Lewis by Vrondi 24) Re: Misty a bi witch?Topical? by "Diana L. Heald" 25) Re: weaving and braiding, part 2 by alicia rice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 22:10:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "Kristin A. Ruhle" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: who's gonna die Message-ID: <199606030510.AA08906-+AT+-waltz.rahul.net> > > I can't find what I'm looking for, and I have to be somewhere soon, so > I give up. > > I think that either Karal or Natoli are going to die in the next book, > maybe both of them. Everything seems to go against Karal. In the first > book, his mentor dies. In the second book, he gets accused of being a > traitor, Natoli almost dies, and Karal himself almost dies in the end. > Is it just me or does Misty have it in for Karal? > Well, let's see...I'm a Sentimental Plot-master and so I'd be inclined to Make it All Up to Him After Such Terrible Trials (tm). It was that way with Talia for instance. I suspect that one or more supporting characters may get killed, maybe the one or ones people would least expect to. How about killing off, say, Firesong? He seems awfully self-centered sometimes. Kristin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 01:21:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Becky Cary To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Dragonlance / Gurps / Same-sex marriages. Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Jun 1996, Salli Bird wrote: > It is my "opinion" that my statement was much more objective than it was > read. Could the atmosphere of "politically corrrectness" have influenced > the way it was read? I really don't think it's a question of an atmosphere of political correctness, but rather simply that a rather large percentage of the listmembers, myself included, are homosexual or bisexual. It's not that we're ultra-conscious of being politically correct -- it is more that, at least in my case, when you live in a society in which it is generally perceived to be unsafe or unhealthy or distasteful or just plain wrong to fall in love with someone who happens to be the same gender, you get a little sensitive when those same views start appearing in what you thought was a "safe place". In a joking post some weeks ago, I unintentionally made some reference to my own bisexuality and didn't even realize until after the message had been sent. And even once I realized it, I didn't mind. My point is that for those of us who have few safe havens in our lives, this list has become one. The general atmosphere has never been one of political correctness, only tolerance. It's simply that we have not really previously been called upon to tolerate views many of us would consider intolerant. Give us some time to adjust to you, and yourself some time to adjust to us, and things should go smoothly. It would certainly never be my, nor I think anyone else's, intention to run someone off the list simply for disagreeing with the majority, and if you've gotten that impression from any of this then I am sorry. But it is rather likely that you will continue to be uncomfortable for a while, because, while our own personal love lives are certainly not the major topic of discussion, neither do we make any attempts to hide our sexuality. It is certainly no deliberate attempt to make anyone feel uncomfortable, but most of us have no desire to always keep silent. I hope some of this, at least, is comprehensible. If not, remember that I'm writing at 1:30 am, and forgive me, wouldja? Becky -------------- When angry, count ten. When very angry, swear. -- Mark Twain This is the kind of zany place where you would flirt with your husband's wife. -- My modern drama prof. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 16:01:15 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Dragonlance / Gurps / Same-sex marriages. Message-ID: <9606030601.AA19056-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> > I really don't think it's a question of an atmosphere of political > correctness, but rather simply that a rather large percentage of the > listmembers, myself included, are homosexual or bisexual. It's not that > we're ultra-conscious of being politically correct -- it is more that, at > least in my case, when you live in a society in which it is generally > perceived to be unsafe or unhealthy or distasteful or just plain wrong to > fall in love with someone who happens to be the same gender, you get a > little sensitive when those same views start appearing in what you > thought was a "safe place". In a joking post some weeks ago, I > unintentionally made some reference to my own bisexuality and didn't even > realize until after the message had been sent. And even once I realized > it, I didn't mind. My point is that for those of us who have few safe > havens in our lives, this list has become one. The general atmosphere has > never been one of political correctness, only tolerance. It's simply that > we have not really previously been called upon to tolerate views many of > us would consider intolerant. Give us some time to adjust to you, and > yourself some time to adjust to us, and things should go smoothly. *grin* You go girl! I have this insane urge to stand up and go "Whoop whoop whoop" a la Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman". :) You put it in a nutshell. :) Cheers, Kerry. "You won't hear a sound as she turns round." - Sarah Bear, of an assassin character. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 16:02:26 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Whoops. Message-ID: <9606030602.AA19060-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Sorry all, that one was meant to be a private message to Becky - I plead industrial strength fatigue. :) Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:00:48 EST From: To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Rawn (spoilers?) Message-ID: <12DBBE65680-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU> > No one can make me cry, or get angry like Rawn and Misty. Andrev's > sensless death had me yelling for days... > > Jennet Me too! And Rihani's too! Kazander's had me weeping hysterically for him and for Chayla, who never got to tell him how she felt. And I almost put the book down after Andry died... I didn't care anymore what Pol did, the only reason I finished was to find out what happen to Sioned! -+AT+->--- Stormcloud and the menagerie Jenna, MistyManiac, Ashkeyana Jenna-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU ~~~~~ WilsonJ-+AT+-SJUMUSIC.STJOHNS.EDU Somebody bring me some water....can't you see I'm burning alive.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 07:08:29 -0600 From: alicia rice To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Misty a bi witch/writing from experience Message-ID: <1378336787-31103663-+AT+-mac2.burlington.k12.ia.us> Arielle wrote: >Any body else out there a King fan? I am but a lot of his stuff I just don't like! For example the ending of The Stand!! (both movie and book) I especialy like IT. Wynd "Wind to thy wings, friend" PS Everybody... I know I just started but I have to unsubscribe for the summer. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 07:15:11 -0600 From: alicia rice To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Trek books/Tolkien/Mcaffrey/Elspeth Message-ID: <1378336385-31127846-+AT+-mac2.burlington.k12.ia.us> Diana said: >Perhaps the problem is that you've grown so accustomed to the >stories, people, style that there is no excitement any more. > I don't think thats it. Otherwise how could I reread and reread a single book and never get bored of it? (MagicsP, Talia etc) If a book is read once and most of it practically forgotten, doesn't that say something about the quality (or lack thereof) of the book? I mean many of us have read books and enjoyed the reading of them but never felt tempted to reread, but I've never felt that way about a Lackey book before and it tells me that something is missing in the reading. Wynd "Wind to thy wings, friend" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:18:12 EST From: To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mail bouncing/etc... Message-ID: <12E066E24F6-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU> > Vrondi wrote: > ____________________________________________________________ > > Do any of you all ever IRC? > > ______________________________________________________________ > > -I haven't tried IRC yet, but I want to give it a try. I have to find out > about the client and server and how exactly I get on it. Once I figure > that out I'm going to get on it. Drop me a note if you would like to > chat and we will figure out when we both would be available to get on at > the same time. > > Love, luck, and lollipops > Mishi I'm on Internet chat rooms a lot... WBS net... http://wbs.net/wbs.html Most times you'll find me in College Chat... MistyManiac, Lady of the Mists, Lady Defender and Tomekeeper of GKA... -+AT+->--- Stormcloud and the menagerie Jenna, MistyManiac, Ashkeyana Jenna-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU ~~~~~ WilsonJ-+AT+-SJUMUSIC.STJOHNS.EDU Somebody bring me some water....can't you see I'm burning alive.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:32:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Summer is icumen in! To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Misty a bi witch?Topical? Message-ID: First, let me start by saying that I have nothing against Valthrea. The fact that she doesn't care to understand same-sex partnerships is her choice and I accept that. As long as she does not try to push me into a closet or deny me my right to exist as an open and honest person, I can certainly accord her the same right. Also, I do not at all interpret her statements, thus far, as constituting such an attempt. Indeed, except on this one issue, she seems to be a pretty cool person and rather likable. That being said, on to the meat of the matter: On Sun, 2 Jun 1996, Salli Bird wrote: > >On Fri, 31 May 1996, Salli Bird wrote: > > [snippage about pro/anti gay discussion being "off-topic"] > > > My point was, why hide one side of the topic and not the other? > > > The matter of how God feels about it is clear. Anybody who cares, I direct > your attention to the first chapter of Romans. This is the reason that such topics as this should be kept off-list. They almost never go anywhere, but rather degenerate into a chapter-and-verse quote-fest. That being said, may I point out that God didn't write Romans (Saint Paul did, unless I am deceived) and the 6 (count 'em, SIX!) references to homosexuality in the Bible are still much debated and studied in theological circles. By this I mean that theologists and Biblical scholars are still arguing among themselves what the original meaning and intent of the various verses were. Also, I was under the impression that Jesus' primary teaching was to love one another (I am pretty sure that Jesus' teachings should take precedence over St-Paul). I don't remember reading anywhere in the Gospels, where Jesus said that only certain types of love are good and others are evil. BTW, for those of you who may not be Christian, or familiar with the Bible, I should point out that the Gospels are the only books in the Christian Bible that contain the statements purportedly made by Jesus and are considered in Christian theology to be the basis of the "New Covenant" or relationship between God and Humankind. That is, the Gospels supercede the covenant of the Old Testament (this is one of the fundamental differences between the Jewish and Christian faiths). This sort of brings up a slightly different point. It is not a particularly good idea to base arguments on "articles of faith," since it is likely (especially on a list like this) that some or much of your audience will not share your faith. For example, on this list, I know that we have several neo-pagans, some agnostics, some Jews, and possibly some Muslim (is any of our Singapore population Muslim?). In addition, we probably have over a dozen flavors of Christianity. Saying that something is wrong because God doesn't like it isn't a convincing argument when your audience may not even believe in God, or may not share your belief that God condemns a particular action. > I did not start expressing myself on this subject due to that however. > If that had been my motivation, I would have simply blasted away, and > left... Matter of fact, I wouldn't have read the books, or searched for > this mailing list. One is tempted to inquire why you did bring this up. Surely you had been on-list long enough to realize that this is a very l/g/b-positive list. Also, if you have read Misty's books, you might have expected this fact, since Misty's works are unanimously l/g/b-positive. Rather than making an issue of things, why not just ignore the l/g/b-related posts and take part in the discussions that you do approve of? Your post seemed to indicate that you were, in fact, *trying* to stir things up and that you wanted to get flamed. Now, I realize that you deny this, but what other reaction would you expect to get when you say that you don't understand same-sex partnerships and "don't really care to"? > I am tired of the following list of actions performed as a way of > engendering hatred and prejudice: > politically correct coercion So far, I haven't seen any of this. No-one on the list has even mentioned the spectre of PC-ness. Not, I might add, that there is anything wrong with PC-ness, when it is done in moderation. As my staunchly conservative red-necked father says, PC is just common courtesy in a diverse world. It only becomes a problem when it is coopted as tool for the thought police. > assumptions not based in fact leading to prejudice Let's see, which assumptions would these be? > mis-reading of content Well, this can't be helped. Language is an opaque medium of communication at best, and there is never any guarantee that what you intend is what the listener will hear. However, if you promise to express youself clearly and definitely, I will promise to ask you for confirmation and clarification before reporting my interpretations as your intentions. > reading into what was said Again, this cannot be helped. The only thing that can be done is to give people the benefit of the doubt. Of course, that sort of means that you wouldn't be doing it to engender hatred and prejudice. > These also produce the closed mind. What else is a closed mind, but one that doesn't care to know? May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:33:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Summer is icumen in! To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re:Trek books/Tolkien/Mcaffrey/Elspeth Message-ID: On Wed, 29 May 1996, Vrondi wrote: > _____________________________________________________________ > Alright, golks! Silmarillion was wonderful! I loved it! And , well, > Lord of the Rings isn't one you re-read constantly, being as it's so > big, but how can you say it went downhill? > Oh, and "The Hobbit,or There and Back Again" was publushed _during_ > Tolkien's lifetime. He and C.S. Lewis both recieved a lot of flack > from fellow professors for writing "fairy stories." (I have done > research papers on both of these gentlemen at different times. Did > you all know they were friends?) I certainly don't think that the quality went downhill. I thought the LotR got better as it went along. So does The Hobbit. However, I don't think that, as a novel, the Silmarillion is particularly successful, and nor are the other compilations of Tolkiens notes. Interesting, yes, a good novelistic read, no. > _____________________________________________________________ > I haven't read"Dolphins of Pern" so I can't argue about that one, but > I certainly love all the Pern books I have read. I cried when > Robinton died. I mean really cried. I think McAffrey is a quality > author. I love her Talent series. you know, "Rowan", "Damia", > "Damia's Children", "Lyon's Pride". wonderful stuff. I am waiting for the book that connects the Pegasus series with the Gwynn/Raven/Lyon books. And I *liked* the "Dolphins of Pern"! It was about time that the dolphins showed up in a Pern book. ObMisty: There don't seem to be any non-human intelligences in Velgarth that evolved indepently of humans. All of the ones like tervadi, dhyeli, hertasi, and gryphons were created by humans. Hmmmm. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:34:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Summer is icumen in! To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Welcome\Crying Message-ID: On Wed, 29 May 1996, Lady Windsong wrote: > I *love* that book. Esp the part where she was totally unable to move, and > she was crying and saying she hadn't even started yet. I was crying with > her, I could barely see the page! That was the part I was thinking of! My God, I was dribbling big ol' tears all over everthing. And the thing that made it so poignant was the reality. It wasn't something that could only happen in Sci-fi or Fantasy (lets face it, 'Lendel's death was not something that would have happened in real life, nor was Van's). There are probably bright, enthusiastic, energetic kids in hospital wards today who are in the same, if not worse, condition. And they don't have the option of becoming shell-people. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:34:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Summer is icumen in! To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: personas|underlining|Roberson|=-=-= Message-ID: On Thu, 30 May 1996, Herald Michal wrote: > >On 30 May 96 Kerry Mealing wrote: > >> You -write- on and underline your fiction books????? (5!!!!!) > >> Do other Misty fans do this? > >> A one-liner, I know, but it's valiantly trying to masquerade as > >> more.. [snippage of defense] > > I can't even countenance marking on a book, it just.... > no, I can't bring myself to do it. It would be like a M:tg diehard cutting up a > Black Lotus.... Ummm. Excuse me, people, stop the underline-bashing! I'll have you know that in the academic world, underlining skills are what seperates the pros from the mere dilettantes. A good academic can put a perfect free-hand line under text while flying coach with a whiny kid on one side, a oversized salaryman on the other all at the same time they are juggling their whisky during a turbulent landing in O'Hare! Any book that I have seriously read has little underlines and the occasional yellow sticky tab marking certain passages. I also write notes in the margins and in the inside front and back covers. And I am proud, PROUD, do you hear me! to do so! So there! Pfthhhhbt! May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Eu guardo a luz das estrelas a alma de cada folha Sem folhas nao tem vida, Sem folhas nao tem nada, Salve as folhas! Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-strauss.udel.edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:58:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Sandra K Haas To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Adams Three Wives was Re: C.S. Lewis Message-ID: OFF TOPIC ALERT!! I would love to read more about Adam's three wives, NEVER heard of it before, anyone got good reference material?? AND how in the heck is this addressed in Lewis's LWW?? If you want to email me seperately to keep this off the list....I'd appreciate any and all info. Sandy H (sandrah-+AT+-umich.edu) On Sat, 1 Jun 1996 ThessaIy-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > By the by, > According to a friend who has rather a lot of knowledge of "all things > Jewish", the story of Adam's three wives came from the Talmud. (The third > wife was actually the middle wife. God created her from the ground, starting > with the skeleton, and adding everything from there, skin and hair last, so > Adam couldn't bear to look at her, let alone touch her. She was sent from > the Garden nameless, and faded out of the story. Eve was then created from > Adam's rib bone, and being sweet and docile, she got them kicked out of the > Garden, thus showing that all genders should be equal, because being sweet > and docile can often mean unconsciously manipulative. Actually, I'm really > tired, and I have no idea what I just said, so ignore everythin after the > second Garden.) > > Lady Thess > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 07:09:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: PowWow :) Message-ID: Does anyone here have or use PowWow? We just got it, and I was wondering if anyone uses it a lot. I've found some other interesting people, even someone who likes Misty! He might join the list. Pretty cool, eh? *^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_ Lady Becky, Goddess of Stress & Dry Breakfast Cereals "Becky, well, you know Becky, the wheel is turning, but the hamsters dead." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 07:00 PDT From: Carolyn Taylor To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Author burnout Message-ID: Debbie wrote: >re: Writer burnout - Lackey, McCaffrey and others - > >Come on guys - I think our expectiations are out of hand - lets face it - >we're spoiled. >We get so attached to characters we want more in-deth/background (snip) - in the meantime - relax and enjoy whats avail and hope the best or >better is yet to come ! > >Dont sweat the small stuff - life is too short !! > Very well said Misty is a person that writes things we may enjoy or not enjoy. If we don't like them, we don't have to read them. That doesn't give us the right to take over her writing much less direct her life. Carolyn> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 07:19 PDT From: Carolyn Taylor To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Dragonlance / Gurps / Same-sex marriages. Message-ID: My point is that for those of us who have few safe >> havens in our lives, this list has become one. The general atmosphere has >> never been one of political correctness, only tolerance. It's simply that >> we have not really previously been called upon to tolerate views many of >> us would consider intolerant. Give us some time to adjust to you, and >> yourself some time to adjust to us, and things should go smoothly. > >*grin* You go girl! >I have this insane urge to stand up and go "Whoop whoop whoop" a la >Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman". :) > >You put it in a nutshell. :) > >Cheers, >Kerry. >"You won't hear a sound as she turns round." >- Sarah Bear, of an assassin character. > > > > >As one who has achieved a thirty year plus hetro marriage and 6 children, and six grandchildren I couldn't agree more. While I may not feel I have a need for tolorance or even charity(=love) on this subject [except maybe in contributing to over population ;-)] there are plenty of other reasons. It feels good to be part of a safe place. Carolyn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 07:37:00 -0800 From: kerowyn-+AT+-annex.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: who's gonna die Message-ID: About who's going to die....actually, I'm wondering if it's not going to be a less-than-major character. What about Selenay? Kyla ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 14:58:16 -0400 (EDT) From: To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 594 Message-ID: <9606031458.aa06551-+AT+-supreme.crt.state.vt.us> I'm catching up on these digests, so I apologize if everyone is sick of this topic. By the end I do drag this back to Misty, however! Valthrea wrote: > The matter of how God feels about it [homosexuality] is clear. Anybody who cares, I direct > your attention to the first chapter of Romans. Perhaps this holds true for your god and your theology. A glib biblical reference is not enough to convince me that I know what god thinks! (as a reminder, similar references could be used to support slavery, animal sacrifices, sexism -- and on and on) > I am tired of the following list of actions performed as a way of > engendering hatred and prejudice: > politically correct coercion > assumptions not based in fact leading to prejudice > mis-reading of content > reading into what was said I'm not sure what you mean by "politically correct coercion" -- just because a certain position has been given this infantile label, does that mean I'm no longer allowed to try and convince others that the position is morally right? So that arguing against racism, sexism, homophobia is now "coercion"? People often seem to think that respecting free speech means accepting opposing views as equally valid. I respect your right to express your view but I still think that the attitude you expressed is wrong, just flat-out wrong. (For reasons that have been ably & amply expressed here before -- and that are also quite well-explained by our favorite author.) Have you read John Stuart Mill's work on free speech? He addresses this point quite well. Also, I think you are taking the easy way out by simply dismissing the criticisms of others as "pc coercion." Although I rarely post here, I enjoy reading this list because the discussions are intelligent & thoughtful, and (thanks to Cennydd!) usually well-supported. To say that others here are making "assumptions not based in fact" (is that comment directed at the list?) is odd given that your original post was unsupported by any reasoning, fact- based or otherwise. And if you are going to post short, unreasoned, negative comments, you can hardly be surprised if the rest of us 1) respond critically & 2) read more into the post to try and figure out what you meant -- you didn't give us much to go on. Speaking of your original post (this is where it gets back on topic)" > >>I will probably be flamed seriously for this, but so be it... > >>I don't understand so-called "same-sex" pairings and I never will. > >>I don't care to. It is the only part of Misty's writings I do not care > > for. (emphasis supplied) Now this last comment perplexes me . It's like saying (to use an exaggerated example) "I really like that Constitution, but I don't care for the separation of powers part" or "Sure, I believe in the Bill of Rights, but not for criminals." Tolerance, acceptance and the tendency (sometimes annoying to the DDMF!) to have love blossoming everywhere in every form seems to me an integral part of Misty's work. Same sex pairings, opposite sex pairs, cross- race/species (what is the right term? -- I'm thinking of the "Eagle & the Nightingale" stories), threesomes, age differences -- the characters may face intolerance and prejudice but the "moral" clearly is that such prejudice is wrong. I'm not sure how much you can like Misty if you don't share those views. As has often been mentioned, her strength is more in characters than in plots, so it must be hard to enjoy the story if you're not attached to the characters. Certainly disapproval of homosexuality would put a damper on enjoyment of the LHM books, which many folks (including me) think is her best work yet! I may be wrong on this, though -- what do other people think? Apologies if I'm extending a discussion that should be given a mercy killing. Bridget ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 14:13:07 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mail bouncing/etc...(read: Re: IRC) Message-ID: <199606032113.OAA18942-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> >--_____________________________________________________________ >Do any of you all ever IRC? >______________________________________________________________ Heh heh....yup, I started recently and can't get enough. Where do ya'll who use IRC hang out? If I'm on, I'll be in #wolfhome, as werewolf or JFarstrdr if I'm in #tar_valon. Gee, this is short...uh, about people to die... I know this sounds (a little bit :) ;) ) callous, but I hope Misty kills off one of the main characters - it would make me think she really is back. I'm afraid I'm one of those who feel the quality has gone down...(forgive my heresy oh Misty One!) but at least I'm optomistic for future improvement...maybe this is just her early attempts at a new style, and it'll improve. Take Karal, for instance - budding relationship with Natoli, persevered against all odds, light at the end of the tunnel - this is where Jennifer Roberson or Old Misty would have killed him off. But I'm dreadfully afraid he might survive (no, I don't dislike Karal personally - he's just a convenient example, 'kay? :) ) Alright, that's better, and I don't even need an ObMisty! How spiffy! "Just a roll, just a roll on your drum. Just a roll and the war has begun." - Fairport Convention, _Sloth_ *************************************************** Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr VP of the VEVUWEC and member of the DMFs *************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 17:16:33 -0400 From: JSteinb103-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Same-sex marriages Message-ID: <960603171629_406392121-+AT+-emout15.mail.aol.com> Valthrea: On June 2 you wrote >I did not use bent vs normal. In your original posting on this topic you wrote >>> For some of the bent sexual preferences who want to "appear" normal This does sound as though you are counterposing "bent" and "normal". I (and others on the list) understood this to mean that you consider lesbian/gay preferences "bent" and heterosexual preferences to be "normal". If this is not what you meant, please clarify. I was deeply offended by your orginal posting on this topic because it seems to me that you are judging other people's love and relationships. You do not know me or the women that I choose to be with, so how can you say that my preferences are bent? Julia Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 17:36:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Wildfire To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Of classes.... Message-ID: > (snip) > > BTW, hands up everyone who cried when 'Lendel died? I really like > >him! Who else does? > > > > Lady Windsong and Lyrra > > I did! I liked him too. I loved his sense of humor. :) I like > Stefan well enough, but I liked him better as 'Lendel. Yes yes! That has always been a gripe of mine, except that somehow I've never liked Stefan - keep feeling that he doesn't "live up" to what Tylendel was. I loved Van and Lendel as a pair, I mourned when Lendel died - no matter how many times I read MPawn I cry when I come to that bit. I think Misty's writing is at its most powerful in MPawn - I could feel the grief projected in every single word. Too bad her writing's gone downhill IMHO -- f'rinstance the sickly sweet stuff at the end of BTS, stuff about the oh-so-cuuuute gryphlets, and plots where everything is hunky-dory at the end... Ah well. Even though I don't think anything other than the LHM and AotQ trilogies are especially good, Misty's books are still rather enjoyable and anyway I just have to keep reading in case something good turns up... OK. I've said my piece - flame on if you wish...I know what I've just said may very well amount to blasphemy on this list ;-} Peace, Wildfire, hastily erecting flame-proof shields... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 10:30:03 -0600 From: alicia rice To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Good cry reads Message-ID: <1378324693-31831051-+AT+-mac2.burlington.k12.ia.us> Kadessa said: > The next book I'm getting out of the library is Alvin Journeyman, #4 >in the Alvin Maker Series. :) I'm dying to read it. The Alvin Maker series was the series I was least imoressed with though I really liked the first one I couldn't get through anything after two. Have you read anything else by him such as -A Planet Called Treason- or -the Worthing Saga- ? Wynd "Wind to thy wings, friend" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 12:36:48 +0000 From: Vrondi To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: PowWow/Adam's wives/C.S. Lewis Message-ID: <199606031538.LAA27523-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> On 3 Jun 96 Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > Does anyone here have or use PowWow? We just got it, and I was > wondering if anyone uses it a lot. I've found some other interesting > people, even someone who likes Misty! He might join the list. Pretty > cool, eh? Becky, what IS PowWow? ___________________________________________________________ On 3 Jun 96 Sandra K Haas wrote: > I would love to read more about Adam's three wives, NEVER heard of > it before, anyone got good reference material?? AND how in the heck > is this addressed in Lewis's LWW?? Someone, Tumnus I believe, tells Lucy that the White Witch is a descendant of Adam's first wife, Lilith. That she only pretends to be a daughter of Eve. __________________________________________________________ ObMisty: hmm, can't think of any -Vrondi a.k.a. Free Bard Oriole a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean ________________________________________ http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/ ________________________________________ ==\\ |8| |\ |8| __ o| |8| (__) |8| |__| |8|_|__| \____/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:44:35 EST From: "Diana L. Heald" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Misty a bi witch?Topical? Message-ID: <33DB0145CA-+AT+-ais.syr.edu> Glith writes > In a message dated 96-05-31 13:31:59 EDT, you write: > > >I put this all in because I'm tired of hate mongers from certain > >denominations > >turning the words Christian or catholic into synonyms for closed-minded. > >Christanity is about love and redemption, not hate and exclusion. > > Amen and amen. I've always wondered why so many "fundamentalist" Christians > want to ignore the New Testament laws(Love thy neighbor as thy self) in favor > of the stricter Old Testament laws. God is love so how could he condemn any > expression of love. I am a fundamentalist Christian and I don't care if you want to marry your dog. The thing I don't like about gay relationships (and a lot of hetero relationships as well) is the promiscuity. I believe in settling down with one person - not in jumping from one bed to another. This is why venereal diseases are still around. HIV is not a homosexual disease - it a disease of one night stands. Diana *********************************************************** Diana L. Heald Syracuse University Email: dlheald-+AT+-ais.syr.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:59:57 -0600 From: alicia rice To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: weaving and braiding, part 2 Message-ID: <1378319299-32155467-+AT+-mac2.burlington.k12.ia.us> Khenta said: >11) Lady Reesa asked: who doesn't love Vanyel. >Well, I don't. I love Elspeth. >("Hi, my name is Khenta and I have a problem: I do not love Vanyel...") >Now if only I could for the life of me find out why I'm attracted to >Heteras. Somebody happen to know the way to the nearest MindHealer? > Maybe it's the pull of the forbidden, you know the you always want what you can't have syndrome. My opinion. Wynd "Wind to thy wings, friend" ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 595 *********************************