MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 620 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: British gardens by Salli Bird 2) Re: Wet Wings by Salli Bird 3) Re: Naming of gods, READ THIS by David Snyder 4) Re: Baaaaah! by David Snyder 5) Re: Baaaaah! in SCOTLAND! by mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa) 6) Re: Of sheep and cows... :) by Lady 'Reesa 7) Re: Wet Wings by Shadow-Lover 8) Help by Robbie Betts 9) Re: Mailing List Casting! Was re: Speaking of lists... by Becky Anne Christensen 10) Re: Wet Wings by "Perkins,Cheryl;=7001696" 11) Re: Baaaaah! in SCOTLAND! by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) 12) Re: Everything!/Muppets Casting by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 13) Staven - Some discussion at long last! by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 14) Re: CMusic/transla./casting/ :) by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 15) Re: Elspeth by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 16) Re: Of sheep and cows... :) by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 17) Re: Wet Wings by Salli Bird 18) Re: ...casting... by kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah Postrech) 19) Re: More sheep/Herald Miss Piggy, etc. by kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah Postrech) 20) Gods/Goddesses by Jane Custer 21) Re: Staven - Some discussion at long last!/& tribute to Queen 'Reesa by kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah Postrech) 22) Re: Wet Wings by Shadow-Lover 23) Re: Wet Wings by Sarah Worley 24) Re: Narnia/Commonlaw marriage/Out of print books/being shaych by Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com 25) Re: Wet Wings by Salli Bird 26) Re: Staven - Some discussion at long last!/& tribute to Queen 'Reesa by Lord Wurm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 09:53:14 -0500 From: Salli Bird To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: British gardens Message-ID: <14531438722375-+AT+-misslink.net> At 01:06 PM 6/14/96 +0100, you wrote: >A wee bit of ADMIN: your ever-loving listmistress is still hopelessly snowed >under at the moment, and reading digests 'as and when'. Thanks to whoever >reposted the etiquette guide, you saved me a job :) >Cheers > >Mel > Dear Mel... I have seen reference to digests of this list many times. Are the digests smaller and condensed? If so, is it possible to get that instead? Not that I don't enjoy the list, I am getting very strapped for time. Thanks Valthrea aka The Bird Woman bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net Striking out for independence by running my own business at home. And YOU can, too. I will share my secrets when you e-mail me! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 09:53:18 -0500 From: Salli Bird To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wet Wings Message-ID: <14531842322376-+AT+-misslink.net> At 04:50 AM 6/15/96 +0100, you wrote: > Is fantasy magic >considered a Christian taboo? Do others share my parents belief that >reading such material leads to dabbling in the real thing? On the same >note, where do you think the line should be drawn between a parent showing >their child their beliefs and inflicting them on their child? > > - Shadow-Lover > Depending on how the Bible is read, _anything_ could be considered taboo. Wearing shorts, having long hair, having an Internet account. Once again, it depends on what is read into it. (Can you believe, I know some preachers who think that just having a computer is a sin?) A parent teaching a child vs. imposing their belief system: A. Depends on the age of the child. B. Does the child still live under the parents roof? C. Is the parent still providing support? D. Is the parent still legally responsible for the child? It is my belief that as long as the answer to any of the above is "yes", then the "child" is morally and legally bound to obey and/or respect the wishes of the parent, of course this can be subject to discussion. Once there is no longer any of the above, the restrictions would no longer apply. Valthrea aka The Bird Woman bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net Striking out for independence by running my own business at home. And YOU can, too. I will share my secrets when you e-mail me! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 10:50:36 -0400 From: David Snyder To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Naming of gods, READ THIS Message-ID: <199606151450.KAA29579-+AT+-brickell.bridge.net> At 02:00 PM 6/15/96 +0100, you wrote: > Hmm.. I guess I'm just generally recognized by all to be Lord of >the Dead... Or must I be named as well? - Shadow-Lover ******************************** OK, people for the next time, if you want to be a god, goddess, avatar, high priestess, whatever, LET ME KNOW!!!!! I don't do this out of the blue, unless someone nominates someone else by private email! If you want to be a deity, please tell me, I'll think up some wacky ceremony for you. Promise. Therefore, Shadow-Lover, I, with all my fear of dying, and my lack of fear of actual death, do herefore,herewith,and heresir, yassuh,massa, don't beat me massa! And now back to your regularly scheduled program. I pronounce you Shadow-Lover, every man's woman, and every woman's man, Lover to all, and married to any who you wish, Lord of the Dead, and leader of Your own armies. "And when the living fight the dead, the living always lose. Imagine the fallen rising up to smite their brothers in wave after wave of rotting flesh. Right Pseffy-woodles?" (Epicurus the Sage, volume one, about Hades and Persephone. Go find it and read it, it's great! It's also a comic book, hard to find. And now we return to your regularly scheduled program.) So I declare it! All hail, Shadow-Lover Lady Thessaly, Goddess of Nomenclature, MKGC, Lady in Green ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 10:50:28 -0400 From: David Snyder To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Baaaaah! Message-ID: <199606151450.KAA29576-+AT+-brickell.bridge.net> At 12:58 AM 6/15/96 +0100, you wrote: >Thess, I love you! Now I have something to sing at the wedding of >two of my SCA friends. I wanted to do the song about Angus and his wedding >kilt, but that one will do in a pinch! I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE you! >I think they'll appreciate the sheep song just as much. That is, I may be >banned from the reception... >**** Her Majesty, Queen 'Reesa the Incorrigable **** ----------------------- 'Reesa, milady Queen, for you, anytime! I wish I knew the poem about Ian macIan. He was just a poor Scot, endowed enough for three, and all he had to wear was his sporran. For maximum decency, he had to wear it below his knees. But he met a sad young rich widow, and when he left her house, he had clothes and a lot of gold, and she was a much happier, so he started a business making all the widows very merry indeed. When he died (a RICH old man), all the men of the town buried him 6 feet under, thought again, dug him up, and buried him EIGHT feet under. The last stanza starts something to the effect of "but don't worry, I'm all that he was and more" and something about where he can be reached. (The tale was told by Morgan Bloodaxe, and was about his uncle.) I also know most of the Song of Thor (I'm thorer thir than you!) (read that with a lisp, and you'll understand!) Lady Thess ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 09:32:02 -0700 (MST) From: mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Baaaaah! in SCOTLAND! Message-ID: <199606151632.JAA26334-+AT+-primenet.com> At 02:45 PM 6/15/96 +0100, Ian Macdonald (CS) wrote: >I think I am the only Scotsman living in Scotland on this list?? anyone wont >to correct me?? So watch what you say *GRIN*. Just as well you didn't say >who told you that one or I would be sending them a nasty email about not >making jokes about a Scotsman's personal life *grin* I was just kidding, I swear. Oooh, I bet that means (Duh 'Reesa...) that you've got a Scottish accent. I love Scottish accents... Want to call and just talk at me... I shall in the future, endeavor not to make comments about your personal life. >Ian (enjoying the sun from his computer terminal, Yes it actually not >raining in Scotland for once ) I have got to get my father (Yeah, unfortunately, he's the only one I have...) to fund my trip to Scotland and Ireland. And of course, as long as I'm there, I have to see England and Wales... And then come back the long way and stop in Australia and New Zealand... **** Her Majesty, Queen 'Reesa the Incorrigable **** By the grace of the gods, Queen of Everything, Defender of the Morally Questionable, Lady In Green, Cat Person, Keeper of the Cast List, And Close Personal Friend To Many Sheep. --------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 09:23:21 -0700 (MST) From: Lady 'Reesa To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Of sheep and cows... :) Message-ID: <199606151623.JAA05675-+AT+-primenet.com> At 06:25 AM 6/15/96 +0100, Herald Michal wrote: >>>>'Reesa quoth: >>>>> I like sheep, not cows. >>>> And I repeat: "Stick to the sheep, they don't snore." :) >>>I'm tryig desperately not to read *anything* into this, but its getting >>>difficult. >> >> Why try? I meant everything you think I did. And thank >>you Jag, but they DO snore! Really Michal, I'm finally in a better mood, >>and when I'm in a good mood I get randy. I'll make the perfect >Companion... > >Well...I've always considered myself openminded. Whatever floats >yer boat ;) Just so as not to scare any of the newbies who don't know me, no, I do not go around fornicating with sheep. Or cows, mostly because of the size difference...(Again, just kidding.) I generally prefer actual humans, but there are so few of those in Arizona... They all seem to live in out of the way places like New York, or Australia, and wherever it is that Shadow-Lover lives. (Hey, I loved him when I read about him, and imagine my surprise when the first message I got off this list was from him! Of course, he was fighting Jag at the time...) >>**** Her Majesty, Queen 'Reesa the Incorrigable **** >> By the grace of the gods, Queen of Everything, >> Defender of the Morally Questionable, Lady In >> Green, Cat Person, Keeper of the Cast List, And >> Close Personal Friend To Many Sheep. >>--------------------------------------------- > >I guess I'm in the prescence of royalty then. >Should I make formal obesience, your Majesty? ;) No, you don't have to bow unless I go into formal mode. By The Way people, taxes are due, and it doesn't matter what country you live in. I am Queen of Everything, so you still owe. I like chocolate. And sheep... Oops, I forgot, I wasn't going to mention them again. **** Her Majesty, Queen 'Reesa the Incorrigable **** By the grace of the gods, Queen of Everything, Defender of the Morally Questionable, Lady In Green, Cat Person, Keeper of the Cast List, And Close Personal Friend To Many Sheep. --------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 13:36:51 -0400 From: Shadow-Lover To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wet Wings Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960615173651.00672670-+AT+-popd.ix.netcom.com> At 04:16 PM 6/15/96 +0100, you wrote: >At 04:50 AM 6/15/96 +0100, you wrote: >> Is fantasy magic >>considered a Christian taboo? Do others share my parents belief that >>reading such material leads to dabbling in the real thing? On the same >>note, where do you think the line should be drawn between a parent showing >>their child their beliefs and inflicting them on their child? >> >> - Shadow-Lover >> >Depending on how the Bible is read, _anything_ could be considered taboo. >Wearing shorts, having long hair, having an Internet account. Once again, it >depends on what is read into it. (Can you believe, I know some preachers who >think that just having a computer is a sin?) > >A parent teaching a child vs. imposing their belief system: >A. Depends on the age of the child. >B. Does the child still live under the parents roof? >C. Is the parent still providing support? >D. Is the parent still legally responsible for the child? > >It is my belief that as long as the answer to any of the above is "yes", >then the "child" is morally and legally bound to obey and/or respect the >wishes of the parent, of course this can be subject to discussion. Once >there is no longer any of the above, the restrictions would no longer apply. >Valthrea aka The Bird Woman >bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net >Striking out for independence by running my own business at home. >And YOU can, too. I will share my secrets when you e-mail me! There is a strond difference between obeying and respecting a parent and being forced to conform... There are some religious ceremonies (i.e. babtism, sacrements, etc.) that in my belief should not be partaken of by a nonbeliever... They are meant as an extension of faith and the energy is wasted on those that don't share that faith... You wouldn't take a Christian to a ritual because they would upset the power flow, doesn't that work the same for all religions? Even if the energy is less organized and defined? I beleive in teaching a child a parents beliefs, but the choice should ultimately lie with the child... In matters where the immortal soul is at stake and there is nothing other than personal conviction to say what is right or wrong I think one would stand a better chance of spending a happy eternity thoroughly devoted to one's own religion rather than blundering through something that someone else said was right, just out of respect and obedience... - Shadow-Lover *************************-E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com-************************ * - Freedom of opinion can only exist when the government thinks itself * * secure... - Bertrand Russell * * * * - Hold on to nothing as fast as you can... * * - Tori Amos * ********************************-IRC: Hairenn-******************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 13:58:06 -0400 From: Robbie Betts To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Help Message-ID: Can anyone suggest a good program that will view the PING format? Thanx. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 11:05:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mailing List Casting! Was re: Speaking of lists... Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 1996, Rosario Holsen-Baker wrote: > Seriously, I withdraw my bid for Nyara, since I think Kittengirl > should be her so Jake can be Skif. That would make me...hrmmmm...I don't > know. Someone said a gryphon...if I'm a gryphon, I'm Zhaneel then. > > And speaking of whom, since no one else has, I nominate Sundancer > for Kero. > > LADY JAGUAR of the Cat People Perfect! You're great for Zhaneel, and Sundancer is more than perfect for Kero. Lady Kittengirl had to be Nyara, and guess what Jake? That means you *get* to be Skif. No arguing at all, you are Skif. Rynath can be Leslac, but Jake has to be Skif. Guess there is an upside to having multiple personalities, you can be in the movie twice. :) Now, we also need somone for Lady Tammy to be, I think maybe Selenay? NOt sure, can anyone think of any better ideas? *^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_ Lady Becky, Goddess of Stress & Dry Breakfast Cereals Everybody wants prosthetic forheads on their real heads *They*Might*Be*Giants* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 16:45:09 +0000 From: "Perkins,Cheryl;=7001696" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wet Wings Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 1996, Salli Bird wrote: > At 04:50 AM 6/15/96 +0100, you wrote: > > Is fantasy magic > >considered a Christian taboo? Do others share my parents belief that > >reading such material leads to dabbling in the real thing? On the same > >note, where do you think the line should be drawn between a parent showing > >their child their beliefs and inflicting them on their child? > > > > - Shadow-Lover > > > Depending on how the Bible is read, _anything_ could be considered taboo. > Wearing shorts, having long hair, having an Internet account. Once again, it > depends on what is read into it. (Can you believe, I know some preachers who > think that just having a computer is a sin?) Well, saying `Christians do Z' is like saying 'feminists do Z'. They vary a lot. I was brought up as a Christian, as were most of my friends. I don't remember any argument against fantasy, but some of my friends weren't allowed to play anything on Sunday. My parents were more relaxed in their interpretation. > A parent teaching a child vs. imposing their belief system: > A. Depends on the age of the child. > B. Does the child still live under the parents roof? > C. Is the parent still providing support? > D. Is the parent still legally responsible for the child? > > It is my belief that as long as the answer to any of the above is "yes", > then the "child" is morally and legally bound to obey and/or respect the > wishes of the parent, of course this can be subject to discussion. Once > there is no longer any of the above, the restrictions would no longer apply. > Valthrea aka The Bird Woman > bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net > Striking out for independence by running my own business at home. > And YOU can, too. I will share my secrets when you e-mail me! > OK, the parent can (and should) teach his/her beliefs to the child. Eventually, when the child comes of age, the child will on his/her own accept or reject the teachings. In my version of Christianity, the age at which a child can do this is rather earlier than the legal definition of `coming of age'. While living with and dependant on someone who doesn't share your beliefs - that is a tough one. You have to remain true to yourself and still not offend the people you live with. This isn't easy, and I have no answers. Cheryl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 12:54:43 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Baaaaah! in SCOTLAND! Message-ID: <199606151954.MAA10963-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla! > I was just kidding, I swear. Oooh, I bet that means (Duh 'Reesa...) >that you've got a Scottish accent. I love Scottish accents... Want >to call and just talk at me... I shall in the future, endeavor not to make >comments about your personal life. Okay...if we're discussing accents, I think this would be a good time to point out that if (when) I suddenly drop into any kind of accent, spontaneously, for no apparent reason, this should *not be construed as an insult of any kind.* Although I will undoubtedly butcher it, I have in my time butchered British, cockney, Scottish, German, Indian (the sub-continental kind), and probably a lot more. So I'm not picking on any group. Oh, here's an interesting unrelated fact (I'm doing this a lot, aren't I? <- note: 'aren't I' is grammatically incorrect, due to a subject/verb disagreement...the only truly correct phrase is 'am I not'...BTW, this isn't the interesting fact yet)...do you know where the word 'barbarian' came from? It was what the Greeks called almost everyone else, because they thought they went 'baa baa' like sheep: baabaaians -> barbarians. Now you know :) This has been a paid broadcast of the Don't Blame Me, Its Not My Bloody Fault! society of America. Now back to your regular (unscheduled) weirdness... >**** Her Majesty, Queen 'Reesa the Incorrigable **** > By the grace of the gods, Queen of Everything, > Defender of the Morally Questionable, Lady In > Green, Cat Person, Keeper of the Cast List, And > Close Personal Friend To Many Sheep. >--------------------------------------------- Heh heh...'Reesa, you still haven't told me what radio station playes Heather Alexander. Hurry up, I'm dying! ;) :) "When my work is finished, I'm coming back for you." - Death Knight from Warcraft II *************************************************** Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr VP of the VEVUWEC and member of the DMFs *************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 16:53:22 -0400 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Everything!/Muppets Casting Message-ID: <960615165321_557006219-+AT+-emout10.mail.aol.com> >(Fox and Geese was it?) I believe it was Hinds and hounds. Nice try though. _______________________________________________________ >The old guy with the moustache that always sat in the >balcony as Vanyel's Dad, >Dr. Teeth as Vanyel's dad Two people as Vanyel's dad? Lady Nightshadow aka Shady ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 16:53:14 -0400 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Staven - Some discussion at long last! Message-ID: <960615165313_557006147-+AT+-emout17.mail.aol.com> In Magic's Pawn page 104 Savil is talking to 'Lendel about the fued and I quote " 'Lendel, I know you've never been able to figure out why both you *and* Staven weren't taken by Companions - well, dammit, it's *exactly* this insanity that's the reason your beloved twin *didn't* get chosen and *you did*." This implies that Staven had gifts worthy of heraldry if it weren't for the fued. So we already know that Staven has mindspeech (from a comment 'Lendel made about how they could always communicate in some weird way - loosely quoted no textevd this time, sorry Cennydd ) but what other gifts did he have? Were there other clues about it mentioned in the series about what they may be? Lady Nightshadow aka Shady trying to stir up some sort of on topic discussion ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 16:52:58 -0400 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: CMusic/transla./casting/ :) Message-ID: <960615165257_557006162-+AT+-emout07.mail.aol.com> >Why thank you!! Gosh, the best role I can think of for you, off >the >top of my head is Yfandes, cause you both have a great sense >of humor, >are wonderful friends, and are really sweet and kind and >caring, unless >someone messes with your friends, at which point you get >back at them. >:) And you both have nicknames. :) Wow, I never thought of that. Who would be Rolan? And you may just want to be quiet about those nicknames on penalty of revealing a few of yours. You are damn right about messing with my friends. You mess with my friends you mess with me. Not a particularly wise thing I can be down right nasty. Lady Nightshadow aka Shady ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 16:53:21 -0400 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elspeth Message-ID: <960615165320_557006187-+AT+-emout08.mail.aol.com> > The line where she mentioned that >someone was always better than she at everything really hit >home. >Competent at everything, outstanding at nothing, but okay >with the >place she has. >Alifarr Now see I totally agree. I thought she was annoying in the beginning but I liked how she grew to become a respected (in my eyes) adult. Alifarr I agree. That comment went straight home to me also. Lady Nightshadow aka Shady ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 16:53:07 -0400 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Of sheep and cows... :) Message-ID: <960615165305_557006233-+AT+-emout13.mail.aol.com> >I like chocolate. And sheep... >Oops, I forgot, I wasn't going to mention them again. >**** Her Majesty, Queen 'Reesa the Incorrigable **** Your Majesty I present, one flock of chocolate and one box of sheep. Lady Nightshadow aka Shady who has paid her taxes! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 17:02:28 -0500 From: Salli Bird To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wet Wings Message-ID: <22022845023166-+AT+-misslink.net> At 06:59 PM 6/15/96 +0100, you wrote: > There is a strond difference between obeying and respecting a parent >and being forced to conform... There are some religious ceremonies (i.e. >babtism, sacrements, etc.) that in my belief should not be partaken of by a >nonbeliever... They are meant as an extension of faith and the energy is >wasted on those that don't share that faith... You wouldn't take a >Christian to a ritual because they would upset the power flow, doesn't that >work the same for all religions? Even if the energy is less organized and >defined? I beleive in teaching a child a parents beliefs, but the choice >should ultimately lie with the child... In matters where the immortal soul >is at stake and there is nothing other than personal conviction to say what >is right or wrong I think one would stand a better chance of spending a >happy eternity thoroughly devoted to one's own religion rather than >blundering through something that someone else said was right, just out of >respect and obedience... > > - Shadow-Lover >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes, there is a difference. But, so what. If a person cannot obey the people who brought them into this life while they are: underage being supported living under their roof legally responsible to do so: Then they are apt to be untrue to the people who had them. Which is being disrespectful, to say the least. Which has precedence? Their obligation and duty or their own desires? Those of us who are parents will more than likely understand my point, while those who have not had the experience probably won't. Valthrea aka The Bird Woman bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 17:17:01 -0700 From: kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah Postrech) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ...casting... Message-ID: <199606160017.RAA25978-+AT+-dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com> Lady Shady wrote: > Wow, I never thought of that. Who would be >Rolan? And you may just want to be quiet about those nicknames on >penalty of revealing a few of yours. What do you mean? ::totally innocent look, unfeigned:: I only meant "Shady". :) >You are damn right about messing with my friends. You mess with my >friends you mess with me. Not a particularly wise thing I can be down >right nasty. See, exactly like 'Fandes...I knew it! :) Lady Kadessa... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 17:25:28 -0700 From: kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah Postrech) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: More sheep/Herald Miss Piggy, etc. Message-ID: <199606160025.RAA26297-+AT+-dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com> Both Lady Jaguar & one of the Becky's (deleted the post so I don't know which, sorry :|) said that the Muppet idea was already around...Drat!!! There goes my original idea for the year!! Now I have to come up with something else and in less than 6 months!! AHHH!! Not fair!!! To whichever Becky it was that posted the "Muppets and Valdemar (silly post)" I only got down to the line "ObMisty: there are no Muppets in Valdemar" and that was all that was in the post. If there was suppossed to be more, could you possibly e-mail me it privately at kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com? ::kicks her server, wishing for one that didn't mess up quite so much:: Lady 'Dessa...(who likes apostrophes now :) ) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:37:58 -0400 From: Jane Custer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Gods/Goddesses Message-ID: <199606160037.UAA00720-+AT+-alpha.clarion-net.com> Several people have been talking about one Goddess/God in Velgarth. Does anyone remember that Need was a priestess of a group which served Twin Gods and Goddesses? Also, IIRC, Karal mentions that in some of the early writings V'Kandis had a consort. Someone (I didn't save the message) asked about Baron Valdemar and what God/Goddess he asked for the companions. IIRC, he asked any positive power for aid, not any particular power. Sharon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 17:48:11 -0700 From: kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah Postrech) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Staven - Some discussion at long last!/& tribute to Queen 'Reesa Message-ID: <199606160048.RAA28848-+AT+-dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Shady wrote: (snippage of quote and other things) >This implies that Staven had gifts worthy of heraldry if it weren't >for the fued. So we already know that Staven has mindspeech (from a >comment 'Lendel made about how they could always communicate in some >weird way - loosely quoted no textevd this time, sorry Cennydd ) >but what other gifts did he have? Were there other clues about it >mentioned in the series about what they may be? He doesn't necessarily have to have any other gifts. Mindspeech alone would give him enough to be a Herald if he were more...stable(?). I can't think of any other clues about Staven's gifts, anyone else? Interesting (sort of) fact: staven in Shin'a'in means "water". :) Lady 'Dessa... Oh, and while I'm thinking of it...Your majesty, Queen 'Reesa, may I present you with my tribute...Three boxes of a flock of chocolate-covered sheep...white, milk, and dark, since I don't know which you like best. :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:59:42 -0400 From: Shadow-Lover To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wet Wings Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960616005942.00670f58-+AT+-popd.ix.netcom.com> At 11:25 PM 6/15/96 +0100, you wrote: >At 06:59 PM 6/15/96 +0100, you wrote: >> There is a strond difference between obeying and respecting a parent >>and being forced to conform... There are some religious ceremonies (i.e. >>babtism, sacrements, etc.) that in my belief should not be partaken of by a >>nonbeliever... They are meant as an extension of faith and the energy is >>wasted on those that don't share that faith... You wouldn't take a >>Christian to a ritual because they would upset the power flow, doesn't that >>work the same for all religions? Even if the energy is less organized and >>defined? I beleive in teaching a child a parents beliefs, but the choice >>should ultimately lie with the child... In matters where the immortal soul >>is at stake and there is nothing other than personal conviction to say what >>is right or wrong I think one would stand a better chance of spending a >>happy eternity thoroughly devoted to one's own religion rather than >>blundering through something that someone else said was right, just out of >>respect and obedience... >> >> - Shadow-Lover >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Yes, there is a difference. But, so what. If a person cannot obey the people >who brought them into this life while they are: > >underage >being supported >living under their roof >legally responsible to do so: > >Then they are apt to be untrue to the people who had them. Which is being >disrespectful, to say the least. Which has precedence? Their obligation and >duty or their own desires? That is exactly my point... My question is where should that obligation and duty end... I have made Vanyel's pact with my parents... I will do nothing under their roof that they do not aprove of, but I refuse to conform to their beliefs, just because of the IMMENSE pressure and guilt they put on me to do so... IMO this goes beyond obligation, duty AND desire... I fully understand your point... I refuse to flaunt my beliefs, choices, etc. in my parents face out of respect for them, but I would like the same respect of my privacy... Which means I would really prefer they didn't read my personal journals to see if I'm some kind of devil worshiper... (Which they have done) And I would like them to be a little less suspicious of everything I do... (i.e. Reading by candlelight somehow makes me a satanist in their eyes...) In my eyes, the process of growing up requires one to make their own choices and mistakes... And there is a big difference between disapproval and persecution... And I know too many parents that absolutely persecute their children for what they see as wrong choices (especially in matters of religion and sexuality)... Think of how many kids have been kicked out, disowned, beaten, and worse when they have come out to their parents... What ever happened to unconditional love? - Shadow-Lover ************************-=E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com=-*********************** * - Stability is based on foundations, and man is made of quicksand... * * - Mortis * * - Hold on to nothing as fast as you can... * * - Tori Amos * *******************************-=IRC: Hairenn=-******************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 21:49:26 -0400 From: Sarah Worley To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wet Wings Message-ID: <199606160149.VAA06981-+AT+-ist.net> On June 16, Shadow-Lover wrote: > >>and being forced to conform... There are some religious ceremonies (i.e. > >>babtism, sacrements, etc.) that in my belief should not be partaken of by a > >>nonbeliever... They are meant as an extension of faith and the energy is > >>wasted on those that don't share that faith... You wouldn't take a [SNIP] > That is exactly my point... My question is where should that > obligation and duty end... I have made Vanyel's pact with my parents... I > will do nothing under their roof that they do not aprove of, but I refuse to > conform to their beliefs, just because of the IMMENSE pressure and guilt > they put on me to do so... IMO this goes beyond obligation, duty AND Until I was 10 years old, I was raised without much, if any religion at all. My mother was much to busy with work and school to instill much sense of religion (or much of anything else) in either my sister or myself. And since she was divorced, my father had agreed to 'weekend visitations' and otherwise all but washed his hands of us. My mother remarried and my step-father was *intensely* religious. (Roman Catholic, fyi). Before I could blink twice, we were going to church ever sunday and I was enrolled in "CCD" classes every monday afternoon. (not to mention Girl Scouts and other "Community Service" activites) Personally, I had no faith with the Catholic church, and I make my mother and step-father well aware of this fact. Their entire attitude towards it was "Well, you will be raised as a good little catholic girl." I raised havoc about having to attend CCD, and ended up making the agreement with my mother that after I was confirmed (age 16), I could do whatever I wanted to, but until then I was going to be raised as a catholic. Since being confirmed, I've gathered an odd arangements of beliefs that really conform to no set "faith" but is an odd mixture. I've also since moved out of my mother's house, and am living on my own. My mother is cool with my religious stance, as long as I am on the "side of light" as she puts it, thats fine with her. But my step-father goes out of his way to try to bring me to Roman Catholicism whenever I am anywhere in the vicinity of their house. Which irritates me to no end. He is constantly telling me that i must "reform" my ways and "accept Jesus's love", etc, etc, etc.. It ended up at one point last winter when I was visiting, I ended up staying in a hotel for the last two days of the week i was there, because I didnt want to hear it any more. I love my parents very much, but every time I go out there to see them (they live in California, I'm in Maryland) .. I've often likened it with having to deal with the Spanish Inquisition for a week. Zhai'hai'allav'a Dass According to a new survey, men and women split the barbecuing chores. Men light the coals, cookand clean the grill, women buy the food, clean up and extinguish their flaming husbands. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 22:08:18 -0400 From: Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Narnia/Commonlaw marriage/Out of print books/being shaych Message-ID: <960615220817_218158380-+AT+-emout18.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-06-13 02:30:06 EDT, you write: > >Lady Thess wrote: >> Lady Thess, who wanted to live in Narnia before she found out 10 years >> later that it was a Christian metaphor, and doesn't care and STILL wants >> to live there. > > It's not the Christianity that bothers me about that particular >religion, it's most of the Christians! However, I have met some in real >life, and some on this list, who aren't fanatical about it...more power >to them! :) No kidding! I am a Christian and I feel the same way. I can't even listen to a national newscast without hearing about the rising foolishness of the Southern Baptist Convention(Thank God I got out, or I'd have to leave now!). I never did hold with beating others over the head with the Bible. If your life isn't example enough, then you don't need to be spreading the Gospel. > In most books like the Valdemar books, it's usually sharing a >fire, a meal, and a bed. In terms of our (American) law, I think it's >living together for a certain amount of time and then declaring >yourselves married. Anyone with actual knowledge of this? In South Carolina, I don't think you even have to declare yourselves married. Its more along the lines of living together so many years and acknowledging your partner as spouse in public(even something so crude as "the old ball & chain" is a valid acknowledgement). Well, its time for the evening thundershower. I'll finish this up later. Glith The sense of the presence of God is an intensly private experience, more like falling in love than providing the proof of a geometrical theorem or demonstrating a chemical reaction in a laboratory. (I don't remember who said it. I wrote it down from a lecture but never wrote down who was lecturing.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 21:25:39 -0500 From: Salli Bird To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wet Wings Message-ID: <02253968723598-+AT+-misslink.net> At 02:27 AM 6/16/96 +0100, you wrote: > That is exactly my point... My question is where should that >obligation and duty end... I have made Vanyel's pact with my parents... I >will do nothing under their roof that they do not aprove of, but I refuse to >conform to their beliefs, just because of the IMMENSE pressure and guilt >they put on me to do so... IMO this goes beyond obligation, duty AND >desire... I fully understand your point... I refuse to flaunt my beliefs, >choices, etc. in my parents face out of respect for them, but I would like >the same respect of my privacy... Which means I would really prefer they >didn't read my personal journals to see if I'm some kind of devil >worshiper... (Which they have done) And I would like them to be a little >less suspicious of everything I do... (i.e. Reading by candlelight somehow >makes me a satanist in their eyes...) In my eyes, the process of growing up >requires one to make their own choices and mistakes... And there is a big >difference between disapproval and persecution... And I know too many >parents that absolutely persecute their children for what they see as wrong >choices (especially in matters of religion and sexuality)... Think of how >many kids have been kicked out, disowned, beaten, and worse when they have >come out to their parents... What ever happened to unconditional love? > > - Shadow-Lover >************************-=E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com=-*********************** Ok, for the record.... Once the "child" is out on his/her own, they should be released from the obligation of obedience and/or duty. Parents have a like responsibility to let go, as it were, so that decisions can be made, mistakes made, and lessons learned. I am not saying it goes forever. Oh, no, no way!!!! I may have read too much into the previous, so here is the parents list (at least from my point of view), parents are not to: 1. make guilt the method of instruction/complience. 2. intrude into a child's private papers 3. abuse their children by brow-beating, physical force, or destroying the self-confidence Parents are to be: 1. helpful 2. instructive 3. loving 4. supporting The situation you described fits the profile of the zealous so-called Christian. Zealots have chased more people away from God than anything I can think of. And, the ironic thing, Christ and Paul were adamant against the activities of zealots! For those of the pagan persuasion, are there zealots in your belief system? Valthrea aka The Bird Woman bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net Striking out for independence by running my own business at home. And YOU can, too. I will share my secrets when you e-mail me! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 21:53:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Lord Wurm To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Staven - Some discussion at long last!/& tribute to Queen 'Reesa Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Jun 1996, Leah Postrech wrote: > Shady wrote: > (snippage of quote and other things) > >This implies that Staven had gifts worthy of heraldry if it weren't > >for the fued. So we already know that Staven has mindspeech (from a > >comment 'Lendel made about how they could always communicate in some > >weird way - loosely quoted no textevd this time, sorry Cennydd ) > >but what other gifts did he have? Were there other clues about it > >mentioned in the series about what they may be? > > He doesn't necessarily have to have any other gifts. Mindspeech > alone would give him enough to be a Herald if he were more...stable(?). > > > Lady 'Dessa... That would work, except that in AoTQ it's mentioned how you _never_ find only one gift on its own, there will always be more than one. Was it ever mentioned if Staven had the same kind of problems(well... similiar) to those that 'Lendel had when his gifts went berserk? You must come forth and sacrifice the lame for the good. _______________________________________________________ Ash aka LordWurm |"A point of view can be a dangerous Email: lordwurm-+AT+-crystalball.com |luxury when substituted for insight WWW: http://rampages.onramp.net/~haig/|and understanding." http://www.ambrosiasw.com/ipage/ | -McLuhan ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 620 *********************************