MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 623 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Commonlaw Marriage...?/Weather by "Perkins,Cheryl;=7001696" 2) Re: Baaaaah! by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 3) Warning! by Chen Chen 4) Re: This is HARD! was re: Speaking of lists... by Gyrfalcon 5) Re: Staven's "Gift" by Chen Chen 6) Book question/ElfQuest/Aslan/Iroshi/Recip - Reply by Barbara Slater 7) Re: Everything! - Reply by Barbara Slater 8) Re: Baaaaah!/ animal husbandry by "Diana L. Heald" 9) Re: Warning! by Sarah Worley 10) Please help re: feather jewelry by Wildfire 11) Re: Warning! by Kim Weatherford 12) Re: Warning! Good Times Hoax _again_ *sigh* by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 13) Re: New Discussion. Textevd even. by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) 14) Re: Bringing up children by "Diana L. Heald" 15) Re: What books would YOU save by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 16) Re: Bible by "Diana L. Heald" 17) windfire/feather jewelry by Marsha Spence 18) Re: Farm Aminals, Narnia... by hirschco-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Farrin) 19) Re: Children and duty by "Diana L. Heald" 20) Re: Wet Wings by "Diana L. Heald" 21) Southern Baptists by "Diana L. Heald" 22) Re: Please help re: feather jewelry by David Snyder 23) Re: Of sheep and cows... :) by Becky Anne Christensen 24) Re: Bible by David Snyder 25) Re: Of sheep and cows... :) by David Snyder ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 06:23:27 +0000 From: "Perkins,Cheryl;=7001696" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Commonlaw Marriage...?/Weather Message-ID: 6 months sounds a bit short to me, but never having filled out the tax forms with a `significant other' I could be wrong. A man and woman living togther can certainly be considered married `common law'. There is a minimum time, which I am too lazy to look up. Same-sex couples don't qualify. But marriage is more than tax benefits. It's standing up in front of your friends, family and clergy of your choice and saying `Yup, I want this one!'. He (or she) then gets to be polite to all the relatives you have spent a lifetime avoiding. Like Van, sending unwanted gifts to his family. Cheryl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 10:16:03 +0100 (BST) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Baaaaah! Message-ID: <9606170916.AA01118-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > > Jerry asks > > > > ObMisty: Do we ever see many farm animals mentioned anywhere? About > > the only example I can think of is the magicked cow at the end of BTS. Dian replied: > > I remember the soldiers going out during the mage storms to find the > children with the sheep. *bangs head on terminal* Of course - I should have remembered that :-). There's also Talias "silly sheep" song. -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 19:21:35 -0700 From: Chen Chen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Warning! Message-ID: <199606180221.TAA24016-+AT+-rgs.rgs.edu.sg> People, I know this is off-topic, but I think all of you should be warned. I got this from a friend. ALERT!!!!!!!!!!! To all of you, please take note that there is a new virus loose on the net and it is very very very destructive. Warning came from a friend inSinget If you receive an email message with the subject line "GOOD TIMES". DO NOT read the message. DELETE IT IMMEDIATELY. DO NOT DOWNLOAD IF POSSIBLE. It has a virus that rewrites your hard drive, obliterating everything on it. Please be careful and forward this mail to anyone you care about. This warning came from the US Internet authorities. IT IS NOT A JOKE!! This new virus has been engineered by a user of AMERICA ON LINE. It is unparalled in its destructive capability. Other more well-known viruses such as "Stoned", "Airwolf" and "Michaelangelo" pale in comparison to the prospects of this newest creation by a warped mentality. What makes this virus so terrifying, said the FCC, is the fact that no program needs to be exchanged for a new computer to be infected. It can spread through the existing email systems of the Internet. Once a computer is infected, one of several things can happen. If your computer contains a hard drive, that will most likely be destroyed. If the program is not stopped, the computer's processor will be placed in an nth-complexity infinite binary loop which can severly damage the processor if left running that way too long. Most of us won't know what has happened until it is too late. Luckily, there is one sure means of detecting what is now known as the "Good Times" virus. It always travel to new computers the same way in a text email message with the subject line reading "Good Times". Avoiding infection is easy. Once the file has been received, DELETE IT IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!! The program is highly intelligent - it will send copies of itself to everyone whose email address is contained in a receive-mail file or a sent-mail file. If it can find one. It will then proceed to trash the computer it is running on. Warn all your friends and local systems users of this newest threat to the internet. Original Sender of this message : Grorge H. Bowers Vice President for Information Systems University of Maryland Medical Sysem 410-328-2579 (fax) 410-328-0572 gbowers-+AT+-umms_itg.ab.umd.edu ----------------------------------------------- ALSO DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILED NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF THE EXTENSION (See attached) We work closely with the military and received this message from a very reliable source in DC this morning. A NEW Trojan Horse virus has emerged on the internet with the name PKZIP300.ZIP, so named as to give the impression that this file is a new version of the PKZIP software used to "ZIP" (compress) files. DO NOT DOWNLOAD this file under any circumstances!!!!!!!! If you install or expand this file, the virus WILL WIPE OUT YOUR HARD DISK.. CLEAN and affect modems at 14.4 and higher. This is an extremely destructive virus and there is NOT yet a way of cleaning up this one. REPEAT : DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILE NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF THE EXTENSION. Richard D. Richins College of Engineering University of California, Riverside ******************************************************************** Chen Chen (Moonsong) Eladi "All those who would hold Madic's Power must then pay Magic's Price" "All those who would be Magic's Pride must then pay Magic's Price." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 07:25:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: This is HARD! was re: Speaking of lists... Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jun 1996 Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > So we have to cast a Misty movie using the listmembers as actors/actresses? > Oh boy lets see: > > Vanyel: Cennyd > Skan: Gyrfalcon > Kerowyn: Lady Reesa > Treyvan: Jake/Rynath/Mr. Jake (Did I miss a personality?) > Savil: Heather > Talia: Lady Windsong or Lady Silvermoon > Sherill: Kadessa (Both are very sweet, caring, and understanding in my eyes > ) > Natoli: Lady Thessaly > Solaris: Vrondi > Starwind or Moondance: Stormcloud > One of the female Gryphons or Diana Tregarde or Nyara: Lady Jaguar > Skif: Mat Timmerman > Selenay or Solaris: Lady Tammy You left out Our Beloved Listmistress 'Auntie' Mel as Kal'en'el Very Sorry for the one liner! Ha now it's two lines! --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 19:30:12 -0700 From: Chen Chen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Staven's "Gift" Message-ID: <199606180230.TAA24086-+AT+-rgs.rgs.edu.sg> On Sun, 16 Jun 1996, Heart-Song wrote: > of talk about Staven's "Gift" of mindspeech and others. I don't remember > seeing anything about their ('Lendel and Stav) speaking with each other. > They had a very strong bond, and 'Lendel was Gifted, and they got up to > mischief with what they could do. But I only remember a kind of > Empathic, primal bond...nothing so specialized as actually talking to IIRC, At Staven's death he specifically begged 'Lendel to revenge his death. He would have to be in at least some verbal communication to do something like that. Kim I thought the reason why both Staven and 'Lendel could mind-speak with each other was because they were twins. They had this special link, this link enable them to know what happens to the other. Something like Vanyel's links with the last few Herald-Mages (he went through the actual deaths of these Herald-Mages) Chen Chen (Moonsong) Eladi "All those who would hold Madic's Power must then pay Magic's Price" "All those who would be Magic's Pride must then pay Magic's Price." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 06:14:15 -0400 From: Barbara Slater To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Book question/ElfQuest/Aslan/Iroshi/Recip - Reply Message-ID: Trouble wrote: >Really? I didn't know that. How so? (I mean, how is it a Christian metaphor -- Shoot, I haven't read those books forever, but I remember reading the entire series in one night. Don't ask how, I'm just a *really* fast reader.) Claris answered: --Supposedly Aslan the Lion is Christ/God the Father. Remember where he sacfices himself? As far as I can tell, though, only the first and books were actually metaphoric. Actually, Aslan is supposed to be Jesus, with God the Father being represented by Aslan's father, the Emperor-Over-Sea. Aslan's country is a metaphor for Paradise. There are parallels between the Peter and Edmund and Susan and Lucy and the Apostles, even with Susan dropping out of the group by becoming 'grown-up' and 'sophisticated'. There are resurrection and transformation scenes in the stories, even to the point that Aslan can't physically come to Narnia any more except as a ghost... The stories are nice, and I like the fact that you don't have to be Christian to enter Aslan's country. Barbara the Sigless Wonder Frogmore Zoo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 06:25:02 -0400 From: Barbara Slater To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Everything! - Reply Message-ID: On June 15, Shadow-Lover wrote: > IIRC Van and Stef played a board game (Fox and Geese was it?) in > Van's room after Stef's concert for the King.... Sarah answered: Hinds and the Hounds, or something along those lines. And I think it is an actual game. At least I know I've heard about it outside of Misty's books, but at the moment I cannot remember where. Isn't it based on the old Egyptian game of senit? I know they've shown the game in the 'Ben-Hur' movie... Barbara the Sigless Wonder Frogmore Zoo 3 days and counting... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 09:07:22 EST From: "Diana L. Heald" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Baaaaah!/ animal husbandry Message-ID: <17F45AD21E3-+AT+-ais.syr.edu> > Jerry asks > > > > ObMisty: Do we ever see many farm animals mentioned anywhere? About > > the only example I can think of is the magicked cow at the end of BTS. > > What about the flock of sheep that 'Fandes leaps through when Van is on his > way back from Rethwellan? > > _____________________________________________________ >Lady Nightshadow aka Shady says > And about all this talk of animal husbandry: Whenever I read these posts I'm > constantly reminded of Montana. Isn't Montana supposed to be known for the > frequent trips to the animal's beds? I thought Montana was known for groups wanting to suscede (sp?) from the nation. Diana *********************************************************** Diana L. Heald Syracuse University Email: dlheald-+AT+-ais.syr.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 09:54:55 -0400 From: Sarah Worley To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Warning! Message-ID: <199606171354.JAA11511-+AT+-ist.net> On June 17, Chen Chen wrote: > To all of you, please take note that there is a new virus loose on > the net > and it is very very very destructive. Warning came from a friend inSinget > If you receive an email message with the subject line "GOOD TIMES". > DO NOT This "new virus" has been a rumor on the Net for many years. It is completely bogus. The way it is proposed to travel is completely impossible. There are many viruses that can cause damage, but not on a properly maintained and debugged system. The only way for such viruses to infect a system is through applications/programs that are already infected with the virus. Other such hacks as the "Internet Worm" and the like are not true viruses and can cause no actual damage to a computer. They enable some third party hacker to get access to the computer, but cause no actual damage themselves. This "Good Times" virus rumor first appeared almost 4 years ago and I am getting highly tired of people who dont know how viruses work panicing whenever they hear about it. Its a rumor, started to play on the minds of people who were uninformed and unknowledgeable. That it has existed for 4 years and probably well beyond certainly says something for the state of mind of the average Internet-user. Zhai'hai'allav'a Dass dassin-+AT+-ist.net Even evil magicians get up in the night http://www.dassin.org/ and look for cookies, sometimes. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 10:06:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Wildfire To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Please help re: feather jewelry Message-ID: Bright the day, folks! I've...uh...a p'rhaps rather unusual request... Two days ago, I received the feather jewelry which I ordered from Firebird. I like the hair thong so much that I'm thinking of getting more, only, I'm not sure I want to get another one of the same or not - apart from the one I received, I have absolutely no idea how the others look like in color, etc. So I'd like to ask for opinions on which one of the following sounds...well, nicest... For those of you who didn't know, the color choices available are: Herald White: White satin cord, pure white feathers, and white or frosted beads. Ceremonial White: White and silver satin cord, pure white feathers, and silver beads. Bardic Scarlet: Scarlet and gold satin cord, red feathers, and gold beads. Sword Sworn Black: Black and gold satin cord, pure black feathers, and gold beads. Healer Green: Forest green and gold satin cord, green feathers, and gold beads. Courtier Blue: Blue and silver satin cord, blue feathers, and silver beads. Sun Kindler Gold: Black satin cord, gold feathers, and silver beads. Royal Purple: Purple satin cord, purple feathers, and silver beads. Hawkbrother: Brown suede thong with wooden beads and pheasant feathers. Of course, opinions from those who've bought feather jewelry from Firebird would be most helpful, but I'd also like to hear from those who haven't - you'll have to imagine the colors, of course. If it's not too much trouble, please rank all the choices from what would be your first choice if it were you buying the jewelry, down to your last choice. Umm...I haven't had much luck in getting responses to my posts on this list so far (very *gentle*...uh...complaint :) people, I've been feeling a little left out!), but this, I hope y'all will help out. Please? Thanks in advance. Wind to thy wings, all. Wildfire ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 10:43:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Weatherford To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Warning! Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Jun 1996, Chen Chen wrote: Sorry Chen, you just picked up a troll. The good times virus doesn't exist:) Kim> > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:22:17 +0100 (BST) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Warning! Good Times Hoax _again_ *sigh* Message-ID: <9606171522.AA03123-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> [Another well intentioned warning snipped] :-). *Sigh*. The Good Times email virus is a hoax. It was a hoax when it started, some years ago, and it's still a hoax. *Don't* spread it any further - It relies on people trying to be helpful and innocently spreading it. The one about the Zip trojan horse may well be genuine(*), but the Good Times one is a (very!) long running hoax that comes around every year or so. If you know how mail systems work, it's obvious that it has to be a hoax - but it's plausible enough to exploit the good intentions of people, and it only needs to fool one or two to spread to other mailing lists, and start the cycle again. As a general rule, if you want to spread a warning message, send it to the list maintainer - they'll probably be able to weed out at least some of the hoaxes they've seen before :-). (*) I seem to remember seeing this one some time ago as well - so even real warnings can hang around for ages too - So sticking a prominent date in somewhere would probably help. -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 08:26:32 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: New Discussion. Textevd even. Message-ID: <199606171526.IAA04344-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla! >Oh and no textevd 'cos I'm off my lunch hour, but the Shin'a'in were >worshipping both a Goddess and a God even after the Mage-Wars. The scene >in WoFate has the Shaman's calling on Them (and "They" references all >the way through), even if only the Star-Eyed Goddess actually appears to >them in answer. Oathbreakers, page 314: "(Although Tarma seldomn mentioned the fact, her people have a four-aspected male deity to compliment the female. This song [Shin'a'in Song of the Seasons] gives Him equal time with Her.)" "Shin'a'in Warsong" (The best song on the "Oathbreakers" *and* "Oathbound" tapes , IMO, BTW) also gives them equal time. >Cheers, >Kerry. >"You take Zathras, Zathras die. You leave Zathras, Zathras die. Either way, >it is bad for Zathras." Oh, BTW, Queen Reesa, along with this missive accept my (humble...heh heh) gift of a score of sheep-bearing-chocolate. :) "Are you _still_ touching me?" - Footman from Warcraft II *************************************************** Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr VP of the VEVUWEC and member of the DMFs *************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 11:32:24 EST From: "Diana L. Heald" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bringing up children Message-ID: <181B0C069DE-+AT+-ais.syr.edu> I think you have to love your children unconditionally. I will always love my children - I don't always love what they do. You also have to let them chose their own path. I let my children question everything (it drives their teachers crazy). If it is a fact, we look it up. If it is an opinion, I will tell them what I think and why (I tend to very opinionated, in case you hadn't noticed). If it is something I don't know, I will tell them that. Hopefully, when they get out on their own, they will have solid reasons to do or not do certain things. I've always told them that, if I instill nothing else, I want to instill in them a healthy skepticism. (That used to drive their grandmother crazy too - and you should see what it does to their father - he never could stand being questioned.) Diana *********************************************************** Diana L. Heald Syracuse University Email: dlheald-+AT+-ais.syr.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:55:31 +0100 (BST) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: What books would YOU save Message-ID: <9606171555.AA04014-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> (I've lost track of who wrote:) > >> > 6,5,4) Curse of the Mistwraith, Ships of Merior, Warhost of Vastmark - > Janny > > Wurts > > I absoulutley cannot get into tCotM. I've tried about 5 times now, but I > always stop. The last time, the farthest I got was 158 or so, then I gave > up. It seems like it has so much potential, but it just doesn't grab me. << > I had a similar problem when I read it (although I got through it eventually) (Minor spoiler coming up....) Doesn't the introduction say something loosely like "This is a story about the fight between and " - so I started the book, met and , and then spent most of the rest of the book waiting for the fight to start, which totally distracted me from what turned out to be quite a good story. I'd probably enjoy it if I re-read it, but waiting for the other shoe to drop was a major irritation the first time round. -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:03:02 EST From: "Diana L. Heald" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bible Message-ID: <18233B03059-+AT+-ais.syr.edu> Lady Thess writes It's difficult to use the Bible to prove something if > one person takes it completely literally, one sees it as a coded work on HOW > to do stuff and so looks for the hidden meaning, one doesn't believe it at > all, and one just thinks it's a bunch of metaphors. > What do you mean? People have been using the Bible for centuries to prove their pet theory. No matter what it is - slavery, suppression of women, witches, etc., damnation, divine right of kings, and so forth and so on. You can always find a passage to prove what you believe, especially if you only quote part of the passage and ignore the rest. Diana *********************************************************** Diana L. Heald Syracuse University Email: dlheald-+AT+-ais.syr.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 11:16:51 -0700 From: Marsha Spence To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: windfire/feather jewelry Message-ID: <31C5A113.838-+AT+-cord.org> My vote: I'd probably go with Royal Purple as first choice and Hawkbrother as second choice. Hope this helps narrow down your selection! Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 09:41:58 -0700 From: hirschco-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Farrin) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Farm Aminals, Narnia... Message-ID: <199606171641.JAA17335-+AT+-dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > >>Lady Thess, who wanted to live in Narnia before she found out 10 years >>later that it was a Christian metaphor, and doesn't care and STILL wants >>to live there. > I was the same way! But I later heard that he totally denied the >metaphor. (At least I THINK thats what I heard...) Also, the world of >Narnia could probably be read as alot of things. Unfortunately, I find >it very difficult to get through it now. That makes it hard to test that >particular theory. :( > > Take Care, > > Ailima. I would highly doubt any denial you may have heard in this regard. C. S. Lewis devoted a large portion of his time to Christian Theology and EVERYTHING he wrote was metaphorically (if not obviously so) related to Christianity. His other trilogy that begins with Out of the Silent Planet - sorry can't remember the names of the rest - is a another Creation/Redemption story that parallels the Christian one. A looooong time ago I did a couple of papers on his work for a theology class. You can make most of the books in the Narnia series hook up with spiritual growth issues that have a Christian slant. AliFarr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:41:29 EST From: "Diana L. Heald" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Children and duty Message-ID: <182D7DD6B2A-+AT+-ais.syr.edu> Valthrea writes > Ok, for the record.... Once the "child" is out on his/her own, they should > be released from the obligation of obedience and/or duty. Parents have a > like responsibility to let go, as it were, so that decisions can be made, > mistakes made, and lessons learned. I am not saying it goes forever. Oh, no, > no way!!!! I disagree with this. Being out on my own did not eliminate my duty to my parents. My mother came up from Dallas every summer until she finally moved in with me. We argued a lot but we still loved each other very much. She lived with me until she died last summer. I still haven't cleaned out her room. I've given some of her things away when there was a need. I loved having her here and talking about when she was young. My grandmother lived with me for ten years until she moved in with her daughter. All three of us were extremely opinionated and we would go round and round - so I learned to hold my own with anybody. > I may have read too much into the previous, so here is the parents list (at > least from my point of view), parents are not to: > > 1. make guilt the method of instruction/complience. > 2. intrude into a child's private papers > 3. abuse their children by brow-beating, physical force, or destroying the > self-confidence I agree with this - although I do point out when my boys do something wrong and we talk about how they should have handled it. > > Parents are to be: > 1. helpful > 2. instructive > 3. loving > 4. supporting Again I agree - but add to that providing a benchmark for right and wrong. Kids have to develop a conscience - they are not born with one. > > The situation you described fits the profile of the zealous so-called > Christian. Zealots have chased more people away from God than anything I > can think of. And, the ironic thing, Christ and Paul were adamant against > the activities of zealots! > Amen! Diana *********************************************************** Diana L. Heald Syracuse University Email: dlheald-+AT+-ais.syr.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:48:10 EST From: "Diana L. Heald" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wet Wings Message-ID: <182F402683C-+AT+-ais.syr.edu> Cheryl says > While living with and dependant on someone who doesn't share your beliefs > - that is a tough one. You have to remain true to yourself and still not > offend the people you live with. This isn't easy, and I have no answers. People talk about not believing in Christianity while living in a Christian home - some of my friends converted to Christianity while in a non-Christian home (Islam, atheist). These kids went through hell and some were even thrown out because of it. Diana *********************************************************** Diana L. Heald Syracuse University Email: dlheald-+AT+-ais.syr.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 13:02:13 EST From: "Diana L. Heald" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Southern Baptists Message-ID: <1832FDF16E9-+AT+-ais.syr.edu> No - not all Southern Baptists are so narrow-minded. I've been a Southern Baptist all my life as were my mother and grandmother and sons. Southern Baptists tend to be a very diverse crop. I've always said that, if you get ten Southern Baptists together, you'll have at least 20 opinions on any given topic. Right now the convention and seminaries are being controlled by the fundamentalists - which is scary. So many good people are being forced out of teaching and the mission field because of this stiff-necked stance. Southern Baptists have always believed in the priesthood of the believer and the autonomy of the local church. The convention is trying to change that to the pastor is the only one who can interprete the Bible and the church has to buy into whatever the convention says. My church has quite a reputation because we have women deacons and don't shun divorced people. We stay with being Southern Baptists because we believe that someone has to stay and try to bring a little sanity to the situation. One thing that is interesting - Texas was the state to start the fundamentalist movement and now, they are almost all moderates. So there is always hope that the pendulum will swing back. Word of warning - the fundis are doing the same thing to the Republican party as they did to the convention. Republicans out there - duck and cover. The convention reminds me of Karse before the change. Stiff-necked and their way is the only way. Diana *********************************************************** Diana L. Heald Syracuse University Email: dlheald-+AT+-ais.syr.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 15:55:53 -0400 From: David Snyder To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Please help re: feather jewelry Message-ID: <199606171955.PAA20703-+AT+-brickell.bridge.net> At 05:07 PM 6/17/96 +0100, you wrote: >Bright the day, folks! I've...uh...a p'rhaps rather unusual request... >Herald White: White satin cord, pure white feathers, and white or frosted >beads. >Ceremonial White: White and silver satin cord, pure white feathers, and >silver beads. >Bardic Scarlet: Scarlet and gold satin cord, red feathers, and gold beads. >Sword Sworn Black: Black and gold satin cord, pure black feathers, and >gold beads. >Healer Green: Forest green and gold satin cord, green feathers, and gold >beads. >Courtier Blue: Blue and silver satin cord, blue feathers, and silver beads. >Sun Kindler Gold: Black satin cord, gold feathers, and silver beads. >Royal Purple: Purple satin cord, purple feathers, and silver beads. >Hawkbrother: Brown suede thong with wooden beads and pheasant feathers. ****************************** We're sorry, Wildfire, we still love you!!!! Ok, my choices, and then a question. No, question first, while I still remember it. How do you WEAR a hair thong, I have no idea? (I have long hair, somewhat curly.) 1) Hawkbrother 2) Swordsworn black 3) Ceremonial White 4) Bardic Scarlet 5) Herald White 6) Healer Green 7) Coutier Blue 8) Sun Kindler Gold 9) Royal Purple Can you tell I have a preference for undyed feathers? If they used natural feathers, they'd be surprised how many are naturally iridescent, and beautiful. Lady Thess ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 13:25:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Of sheep and cows... :) Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Jun 1996, David Snyder wrote: > >Your Majesty I present, one flock of chocolate and one box of sheep. > >Lady Nightshadow aka Shady who has paid her taxes! > ******************* > I refuse to pay taxes on the grounds that I'm a Goddess, and I Officially > Crowned you, so on behalf of all us Gods, I demand a tithe. I promise to > use it wisely, and not spend it on wine, sailors, and sheep. Use your > imagination, I'll open a junk shop of the mind! > Or, you can pay taxes to Queen 'Reesa, and SHE can > tithe. > Lady Thessaly, Goddess of Nomenclature, MKGC, LiG > > Oh Wise and Powerful Lady Thessaly, Goddess of Nomenclature, I, Lady Becky, Goddess of Stress and Dry Breakfast Cereals present to you the Golden Box of Fruit Loops, and the Silver Saver Stress Reliever. They are extremely valuable and sacred. Use their power wisely. The Golden Box of Fruit Loops has (3) three very special features. (1) The first is that no matter how long you have them, and how often you forget to seal them back up after using them, THEY WILL NEVER GO STALE. (2) The second is that no matter how many you may eat, or your friends may eat, or even your enemies eat, THEY WILL NEVER RUN OUT. (3) The third is the most special and sacred of all things, every time you pour a bowl of these Fruit Loops. a special prize will fall into your bowl. YOU WILL ALWAYS BE THE ONE TO GET THE PRIZE, and won't even have to dig for it. The Silver Saver Stress Reliever will get rid of all stress related gray or silver hairs. All you have to do, is place it in the middle of a ten foot circle of tofu. Then make sure you are facing exactly southwest, and do 4.5 jumping jacks. After that, slither on your belly through the tofu until you reach the Silver Saver Stress Reliever, then pat it on the head three and one fifth times. After this, jump up. Do not jump back down until you have said the alphabet....twice....in Gaelic. Then you may jump down, now skip through the tofu until you fall, and all your gray hairs related to stress will have disappeared. Easy, really. It will also relieve you completely of all stress, and leave you ready to face the Ugliness Men. *^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_ Lady Becky, Goddess of Stress & Dry Breakfast Cereals Everybody wants prosthetic forheads on their real heads *They*Might*Be*Giants* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:10:51 -0400 From: David Snyder To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bible Message-ID: <199606172010.QAA20811-+AT+-brickell.bridge.net> At 07:18 PM 6/17/96 +0100, you wrote: >What do you mean? People have been using the Bible for centuries to >prove their pet theory. No matter what it is - slavery, suppression >of women, witches, etc., damnation, divine right of kings, and so >forth and so on. You can always find a passage to prove what you >believe, especially if you only quote part of the passage and ignore >the rest. >Diana >*********************************************************** Ok, according to Kabbalah, the Old Testament is a code. The stories are not even metaphors, so much as describing different frequencies of energy that a person is supposed to be able to reach and maintain, and directions how to get there. However, it has to be in the original Hebrew, written in a certain kind of way because the SHAPES of the letters are symbols to meditate on that harmonize with the energy that you're trying to draw in. (Part of what makes a "kosher"--kosher meaning fit, literally (fitness centers/gyms are called "kosher centers" in Israel)--bible is the way the letters are shaped, by hand, and that it's all in one color of ink.) Actually, in Judaism, there are what's known as the "72 Names of God" and these are used throughout the Bible. When the Romans wanted a translation, they got these Names as something else, so that they wouldn't get the hidden secrets contained therein. These Names are what a person meditates on in order to draw the different energies to them, whether it's health, or prosperity, or just repelling/destroying negativity. Then again, according to Kabbalah, the New Testament is just another book, and has nothing to do with the Old Testament. Just remember, in every WRITTEN tradition, there is an ORAL tradition that makes everything written make sense. All these different religions have codes in them. Not codes of law, but codes to become enlightened. These codes are hard to find, but once you do, and most importantly, ONCE YOU DO THE WORK, you can become another Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, etc. And people using the Bible stories in order to prove a point are biting their own tails, because they can get DISPROVED by another five quotes just as easily. Lady Thess. I hope this didn't come out as confusing to you as it was to put down. Oh, one more thing. I would like to point out BEFORE any fires start that I never said what I believe. I'm only saying that I've studied some of this stuff for fun, and that's what THIS system of belief states. Not whether I agree, or whether they're right. That's all. T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:18:01 -0400 From: David Snyder To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Of sheep and cows... :) Message-ID: <199606172018.QAA20865-+AT+-brickell.bridge.net> At 07:23 PM 6/16/96 +0100, you wrote: > Okay, out of the goodness of my heart (NO LAUGHING!) I have >decided to pay the tithe. Don't expect it to happen again. And btw, I just >want everyone to know, I am immortal, I just didn't want all that >responsibility, you know, people worshiping me, sacrificing virgins to me >(Hmmm, on second thought, maybe that goddess-hood isn't so bad...). And how >come you're not going to spend it on sheep? What's wrong with sheep? Now >sheep and sailors in the same room and you've got trouble. (No offense >Trouble) And just forget it if the sheep are drunk. Ahem...Anyway. > > Oh Wise and Pure Lady Thessaly, Goddess of >Nomenclature and Virgin Sheep Who Dream Of Being Sailors, accept if you >will, this token of my undying gratitude and affection. It shall always aid >you, and when you are finished with it, you don't even need to wash your hands! > > Lady Thess, I give you...tromping music> the remote control to your television set. Never again >shall you argue over who gets to watch their show, for behold, you have the >power! (Batteries not included) Enjoy! ** Her Majesty, Queen 'Reesa the Incorrigable **** ********************* On behalf of all the listmembers, I accept this award. I'd like to thank all who contributed to my godhead, and to the wonderful people who assured me of a lack of a maidenhead. No, seriously, I'm not spending the tithe on Sheep, Sailors or wine, because I need to spend it all on the batteries that weren't included. Besides, my consort would have a problem with having sailors or sheep in the bed, he wants nubile non-virgins, lots of them. I wouldn't mind the chocolate, though. One last thing. Who are you calling Pure? What an insult! Lady Thess, Lig, Mkgc, and beloved of sailors Everywhere! ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 623 *********************************