MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 624 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Books again, gryphons, and pegasoi, oh my! by Clarissa Smith/Claris Boii 2) Re:Listening by David Snyder 3) Re: Books again, gryphons, and pegasoi, oh my! by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) 4) Re: Arizona by hirschco-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Farrin) 5) Pegasus by Soljan-+AT+-aol.com 6) Re: Baaaaah!/ animal husbandry by Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com 7) Re: Bible by "Perkins,Cheryl;=7001696" 8) Re: Baaaaah!/ animal husbandry by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) 9) Re: Please help re: feather jewelry by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 10) Re: Book Murder One | What books would YOU save? by Tensen 11) Re: Bible by David Snyder 12) Re: Books again, gryphons, and pegasoi, oh my! by kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah Postrech) 13) Re: Pegasus by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) 14) Re: Naming of gods, READ THIS by Becky Cary 15) Re: Of sheep and cows... :) by Becky Cary 16) Re: Parenthood and Childhood by Becky Cary 17) New to group with a bunch of replies by "Amy, Alice, & Jim Trivitt" 18) Re: lots of things by michele meredith 19) more rambling by michele meredith 20) Re: Elspeth by Trouble 21) Re: Naming of gods, READ THIS by Trouble 22) Birth Control in Valdemar was:Re: Parenthood and Childhood by Trouble 23) Re: Lost knowledge. by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 24) Re: Naming of gods, READ THIS by Shadow-Lover 25) Re: Southern Baptists/Arizona/Logical Thinking by Seranna-+AT+-aol.com 26) Re: Books again, gryphons, and pegasoi, oh my! by Trouble ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 15:28:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Clarissa Smith/Claris Boii To: Mercedes Lackey fanlist Subject: Books again, gryphons, and pegasoi, oh my! Message-ID: I didn't participate in the book-saving discussion, but I've been watching it, and I've just gotta say something! Doesn't *anybody* read science fiction???? I know my list would have to include Neuromancer, Snow Crash, and Dune, plus Life on the Border (if you like urban fantasy, you can't miss the Bordertown books!). Waaaaaah! I've been wondering lately why Misty used gryphons so prominently in Velgarth. They don't seem like an obvious choice (maybe that's why); in fact, I almost skipped the Gryphon books just 'cause gryphons have never been my favorite fantasy creatures. Maybe she figured the market was glutted with dragons. What about the pegasus logo on the Valdemaran Herald gear? Is there any explanation for that, or are the wings just a metaphor for the Companions' powers? Maybe there are pegasoi hiding out in the mountains somewhere. YT, Herald Rythkana aka Claris aka art student who has no ideas whatsoever for her final project....argh! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:23:44 -0400 From: David Snyder To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Listening Message-ID: <199606172023.QAA20935-+AT+-brickell.bridge.net> At 12:05 AM 6/17/96 +0100, you wrote: >To be "open" to what the other person is saying requires listening skills >which we are not taught. Wondering, was Steve listening or arguing? Shri, on >the other hand, apparently didn't listen, instead, she made assumptions that >she wouldn't like waht she was going to hear, and that was what caused the >closing off of her listening skills. **************** Valthrea, Steve was LISTENING. Shari had gotten into a discussion with Celeste before, knew what she was going to hear, and her version of not listening was trying to stay completely out of the discussion. Celeste ALWAYS manages to turn her conversations over to her religion, and the only way to keep from a)being preached at and b)getting into a "discussion" over it is to do what I did, and what Shari tried to do. Stay out of it, and introduce neutral topics, such as movies and such. Celeste is a generous, caring, kind woman, who just happens to listen to everything her pastor says as if it's the word of God, and that's ok for her. Not for me, not for Shari, and honestly, not for Steve. Steve (and I, but not in this case) likes to know how people think, and why, not threaten them. Maybe he's looking for something better, I know I am. Lady Thess ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 14:54:53 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Books again, gryphons, and pegasoi, oh my! Message-ID: <199606172154.OAA06319-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla! >I've been wondering lately why Misty used gryphons so prominently in >Velgarth. They don't seem like an obvious choice (maybe that's why); in >fact, I almost skipped the Gryphon books just 'cause gryphons have never >been my favorite fantasy creatures. Maybe she figured the market was >glutted with dragons. What about the pegasus logo on the Valdemaran >Herald gear? Is there any explanation for that, or are the wings just a >metaphor for the Companions' powers? Maybe there are pegasoi hiding out >in the mountains somewhere. > >YT, Herald Rythkana aka Claris aka art student who has no ideas whatsoever >for her final project....argh! I think its because Larry (that's Larry Dixon, her husband...) has a fetish for gryphons (mundane meaning only, please! ;) ). Of course, that's IIRC... IMHTTIAWI (I Might Have The Textevd If Anyone Wants It, in case you forgot :) ) I think there ws part of an interview with her talking about that in QO, if anyone wants me to check... As for the pegasi, um, good question. Actually, most likely it was just Baron Valdemar's coat of arms...hmmm, maybe his was just a pegasus with stars und zuch, and they just added the chains to symbolize their escape from tyranny...whaddya think? :) "It would be an honor to die in your service." - What Warcraft units *should* say when you give them an attack order ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************** Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr VP of the VEVUWEC and member of the DMFs *************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 15:40:21 -0700 From: hirschco-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Farrin) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Arizona Message-ID: <199606172240.PAA19011-+AT+-dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > >At 10:31 AM 6/14/96 +0100, you wrote: >> >>> Dearie, I don't feel all that sorry for you. :( First of all, >>>you are lucky that AZ is so DRY. Take that heat and stick 80%plus >>>humidity with it... >> >************************************* > >Howdy from Texas! > >Try 100+F, 70-95% humidity, and 30-50 mph winds, with a thunderstorm and >tornados thrown in. Anybody want to come visit? By the time I get to work >I have to ring my clothes out. OBMISTY: Are there tornados in Valdemar? > >Linda B. >Linda & Paul Bryant >Too tired to think of anything funny! > > Actually, its Arizona's best kept secret that summer means thunderstorms, high humidity and funnel clouds about twice a week all summer long. That dry heat stuff went bye-bye when they paved Phoenix. AliFarr Who moved back to CA to get away from the humidity in AZ, not the heat! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:50:09 -0400 From: Soljan-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Pegasus Message-ID: <960617185008_331132720-+AT+-emout07.mail.aol.com> Herald Rythkana wrote >What about the pegasus logo on the Valdemaran >Herald gear? Is there any explanation for that, or are the wings just a >metaphor for the Companions' powers? Maybe there are pegasoi hiding out >in the mountains somewhere. Stop! Before we go anywhere with this discusion, let me say something that few of you probably know. Pegasus is *not* a species like gryphon. The correct term is winged horse. The first winged horse was named Pegasus and that is *his* name! We don't call all gryphon's Skandranon, or all Companions Rolan. I'm doing this on behalf of my sister, who told me this tidbit. Hmm, this is semi-Misty related. Lady Silvermoon LIG, Leader of the DDMF, Goddess of Sensitivity "There are no perfect men, only perfect intentions." _Robin Hood Prince of Thieves_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:56:04 -0400 From: Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Baaaaah!/ animal husbandry Message-ID: <960617185603_416119282-+AT+-emout08.mail.aol.com> >I thought Montana was known for groups wanting to suscede >(sp?) from >the nation. >Diana Well, sure now it is. But before any of that Freeman crap happened I always thought that Montana was known for that, um, interesting preference. (No offense Your Majesty 'Reesa the 1st(?)) What state(s) is/are known for rednecks? Isn't that Montana too? Lady Nightshadow aka Shady ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 21:00:56 +0000 From: "Perkins,Cheryl;=7001696" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bible Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Jun 1996, Diana L. Heald wrote: > Lady Thess writes > > It's difficult to use the Bible to prove something if > > one person takes it completely literally, one sees it as a coded work on HOW > > to do stuff and so looks for the hidden meaning, one doesn't believe it at > > all, and one just thinks it's a bunch of metaphors. > > > > What do you mean? People have been using the Bible for centuries to > prove their pet theory. No matter what it is - slavery, suppression > of women, witches, etc., damnation, divine right of kings, and so > forth and so on. You can always find a passage to prove what you > believe, especially if you only quote part of the passage and ignore > the rest. > So they have. The Bible has been mistaken for centuries. I prefer to choose the `love your neighbour' bit. I don't go in for `burn wiches' bit. Cherylexit ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:39:46 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Baaaaah!/ animal husbandry Message-ID: <199606172339.QAA24083-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla! >>I thought Montana was known for groups wanting to suscede >(sp?) from >>the nation. > >>Diana > >Well, sure now it is. But before any of that Freeman crap happened I always >thought that Montana was known for that, um, interesting preference. (No >offense Your Majesty 'Reesa the 1st(?)) What state(s) is/are known for >rednecks? Isn't that Montana too? > >Lady Nightshadow aka Shady Arizona sure is...we're chock full of bloody militias, and as you will recall, we're home to the (alleged) OK city bomber Tim McVeigh....I'd mention some others but at the risk of offending people , I won't. *************************************************** Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr VP of the VEVUWEC and member of the DMFs *************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 09:38:21 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Please help re: feather jewelry Message-ID: <9606172338.AA15258-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Wildfire wrote: > Herald White: White satin cord, pure white feathers, and white or frosted > beads. > Ceremonial White: White and silver satin cord, pure white feathers, and > silver beads. > Bardic Scarlet: Scarlet and gold satin cord, red feathers, and gold beads. > Sword Sworn Black: Black and gold satin cord, pure black feathers, and > gold beads. > Healer Green: Forest green and gold satin cord, green feathers, and gold > beads. > Courtier Blue: Blue and silver satin cord, blue feathers, and silver beads. > Sun Kindler Gold: Black satin cord, gold feathers, and silver beads. > Royal Purple: Purple satin cord, purple feathers, and silver beads. > Hawkbrother: Brown suede thong with wooden beads and pheasant feathers. It might depend on what colour hair you have, my prefs: If black: - Ceremonial White, Sword Sworn Black, Bardic Scarlet, Courtier Blue, Sun Kindler Gold If Blonde: - Bardic Scarlet, Sword Sworn Black, Courtier Blue, Hawkbrother If that kind of miscellaneous fair/brown like me : - Hawkbrother, Sun Kindler Gold, Sword Sworn Black, either of the whites. If Auburn/Red'ish: - Sword Sworn Black, Hawkbrother, Ceremonial white. Not green. Not purple. Hope this is what you wanted. :) I've just realized I even approach fashion logically. How depressing. Cheers, Kerry. "I hate it when those reflexes take over..." - Sarah Bear, from the Amber mailing list. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 21:20:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Tensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Book Murder One | What books would YOU save? Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jun 1996, Lady 'Reesa wrote: > At 06:24 AM 6/14/96 +0100, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > > > Shhh, there are SCA'ers on-list. Oh, HEY! WAIT JUST ONE MINUTE > MISSY!!! I *am* an SCA'er. That's why we say we re-create the Middle Ages > as they *should* have been. Else, I'd be in one of those uncomfortable > type-positons right now. I don't think we'd get away with witch-burnings > now. For which I must admit, I'm *VERY* grateful... > Actually in the SCA I think a witch-burning, would be when all the witches and other pagans came out and burned the non-pagans, but I guess thats besides the point :) Tensen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 21:18:52 -0400 From: David Snyder To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bible Message-ID: <199606180118.VAA24366-+AT+-brickell.bridge.net> At 01:10 AM 6/18/96 +0100, you wrote: >So they have. The Bible has been mistaken for centuries. I prefer to >choose the `love your neighbour' bit. I don't go in for `burn wiches' >bit. >Cherylexit ****************** Oh, one other interesting tidbit, which is in several chunks. Parts of the Bible were SEVERELY mistranslated. It's not "Thou shalt not suffer a WITCH to live." It's "Thou shalt not suffer a POISONER to live." Makes sense, huh? Also, the Commandment "Thou shalt not kill," is actually "Thou shalt not murder." That makes heap big difference, yes? But I forget who said it, but the basis of all the worlds major religions is the same. "Love thy neighbor." That makes the most sense of all. Lady Thess, who loves semantics ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:35:58 -0700 From: kadessa-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Leah Postrech) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Books again, gryphons, and pegasoi, oh my! Message-ID: <199606180135.SAA13527-+AT+-dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> >As for the pegasi, um, good question. Actually, most likely it was >just Baron Valdemar's coat of arms...hmmm, maybe his was just a >pegasus with stars und zuch, and they just added the chains to >symbolize their escape from tyranny...whaddya think? :) >*************************************************** >Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr > VP of the VEVUWEC and member of the DMFs >*************************************************** When I looked at the picture, after I'd read a couple of the books I always thought that maybe it symbolized the legendary Windrider, specifically in the song Windrider Unchained. I mean, it makes some sense, doesn't it? Well, Just my own humble opinion. :) Lady 'Dessa... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:37:03 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Pegasus Message-ID: <199606180137.SAA21018-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla! >Stop! Before we go anywhere with this discusion, let me say something that >few of you probably know. Pegasus is *not* a species like gryphon. The >correct term is winged horse. The first winged horse was named Pegasus and >that is *his* name! We don't call all gryphon's Skandranon, or all >Companions Rolan. I'm doing this on behalf of my sister, who told me this >tidbit. Hmm, this is semi-Misty related. > >Lady Silvermoon >LIG, Leader of the DDMF, Goddess of Sensitivity >"There are no perfect men, only perfect intentions." _Robin Hood Prince of >Thieves_ Um, I hate to disagree with you, but it is a Pegasus. Yes, it was named after the first one who was called "pegasus", but, for lack of a better word, a winged horse *is* a pegasus...(plural: pegasi, BTW)...this is not a flame, but its hardly IMO...if you don't want to call it a pegasus, fine, but you're going against several centuries of English language and usage... Tahlmorra lujhalla mei wiccan, cheysu *************************************************** Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr VP of the VEVUWEC and member of the DMFs *************************************************** ...who is hoping this doesn't sound like a flame, 'cause its not.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 22:44:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Becky Cary To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Naming of gods, READ THIS Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 1996, Thess proclaimed: > And now back to your regularly scheduled program. I pronounce you > Shadow-Lover, every man's woman, and every woman's man, Lover to all, and > married to any who you wish, Lord of the Dead, and leader of Your own Oh, come now Lady Thessaly, do play fair. What about every woman's woman and every man's man? Hmmm? Becky -------------- Hey, let's give a big round of applause to what's-his-name, the maker of the vacuum cleaner. After all, if you think about it, who else in history has made more money off of something that sucks? Ok, _besides_ Aaron Spelling. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 22:48:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Becky Cary To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Of sheep and cows... :) Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 1996, Lady 'Reesa wrote: > No, you don't have to bow unless I go into formal mode. By The Way > people, taxes are due, and it doesn't matter what country you live in. I am > Queen of Everything, so you still owe. I like chocolate. And sheep... > Oops, I forgot, I wasn't going to mention them again. > -------------- Hey, let's give a big round of applause to what's-his-name, the maker of the vacuum cleaner. After all, if you think about it, who else in history has made more money off of something that sucks? Ok, _besides_ Aaron Spelling. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 23:02:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Becky Cary To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Parenthood and Childhood Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Jun 1996, Salli Bird wrote: > At 05:35 AM 6/16/96 +0100, you wrote: > > Many psychologists today are saying that the "childrens duty" to > >the parents attitude is hurtful to the development of the child. I, > >myself am no psychologist and don't believe in everything they say... > >But I thought I would through this out there. > > > Harmful? How in the world could listening to someone who has gone through > life and survived be harmful? It makes me wonder if these people even know > what it is like to be a parent, and sweat and be scared for the child? It > makes me wonder if they would like to have non-responsible house guests who > don't respect their property come to live... How could it be harmful? Valthrea, all I can say is that you should daily thank God for giving you good, responsible parents. In a society that sets the parent (particularly primary caregiver) up as the Ultimate Authority, a marginally bad parent can inflict horrific damage. This kind of relationship, primarily at its strongest _because_ the child is too young to question the absolute Rightness of Mommy or Daddy, can be worse than any physical abuse. Trust me. Becky -------------- Hey, let's give a big round of applause to what's-his-name, the maker of the vacuum cleaner. After all, if you think about it, who else in history has made more money off of something that sucks? Ok, _besides_ Aaron Spelling. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 20:41:24 -0700 From: "Amy, Alice, & Jim Trivitt" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: New to group with a bunch of replies Message-ID: <9606180341.AA18328-+AT+-mail.coos.or.us> Re: gryphons and pegasus I think the gryphons were used prominently because of their link to magical creation that and the fact Uthro doesn't seem to be a dragonny type of guy (Ancar is the type of person I think would have a dragon). >I thought Montana was known for groups wanting to suscede >(sp?) from >the nation. >Well, sure now it is. But before any of that Freeman crap happened I always >thought that Montana was known for that, um, interesting preference. (No >offense Your Majesty 'Reesa the 1st(?)) What state(s) is/are known for >rednecks? Isn't that Montana too? >Lady Nightshadow aka Shady Anybody want the rednecks who live in Coos Bay, Oregon you can have them? Wildfire, I need some information before I can even select a feather jewelry style for you. Like what are your favorite colors (If you say white I'll say get rid of the "shoot me now clothes".) and what color is your hair. If it was me I would pick the Bardic, HealerGreen, Cortier Blue, Royal Purple, and maybe the SwordSworn. But then I like the colors with the blue tint in it (Rasberry, Wine, Emeralds,etc) and I have dark brown hair so..... Amy hill-+AT+-mail.coos.or.us ps. does any one know when _Breaking_ is coming out?!?!?!?!?! I'm in Misty withdrawl and I was not happy at all with _Silver Gryphon_ Does anyone have any idea why the gods Vkandris and Kalendra broke up? amy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 23:57:22 -0400 From: michele meredith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: lots of things Message-ID: <31C62922.29D9-+AT+-prolog.net> Okay, I'm in a talkative mood. I finallt got to read all my messages, my computer decided to behave itself tonight. Okay I'm going to start rambling now. Ramble #1 - Weather All right PA is kind of average (usually). Lately the weather has been hot and humid, high 80's - low 90's temperature wise with about 80-100% humidity. We have had thunderstorms almost everyday for about two weeks now. Here's the real fun part. I work in a knitting mill that thinks we need heat in the summertime. Guess what we make - thermal underwear - you know the heavy, bulky stuff that keeps you warm in the winter, of course we are busiest in the summer. Yuck, Yuck, Yuck!!!! I can't complain to much if I didn't have this job, I wouldn't have this computer. Ramble #2 About saving books, why are you making think this hard it hurts!! I keep on changing my mind. Here's the list I have now 1> Vault of Ages by Poul Anderson(it's a first edition, not a bad book either) 2> Scared Ground by guess who 3> Island in the Sky by Arthur C. Clarke(another first edition) 4> The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle 5> Chicks in Chainmail (just don't ask) 6> Tiger Burning Bright by Bradley, Lackey, and Norton 7> The Stand by Stephen King 8> Black Lighing by John Saul (I'm reading it now, so it would probably be the first one i grab) 9> Magic's Pawn 10> Magic's Price ARGHHHH!!!!! What about all my other books??? Oh, the heck with it!!! I'll just stand at the window and start pitching them out. I'll be able to save more that way. I just hope that the fireman come rescue me then so all that work wouldn't be in vain. I think I'll do this in two parts. Love, luck, and lollipops, Mishi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 00:25:08 -0400 From: michele meredith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: more rambling Message-ID: <31C62FA4.78C8-+AT+-prolog.net> Here I go again: Ramble #3 This is to everyone who thinks they are in areas where they never get tornadoes. DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT!! I was always told that we would never get tornadoes because the mountains would break them up. (insert mad insane laughter here). Well a couple of weeks ago three small tonadoes went hopping and skipping over a three or four mile section of the countryside. Luckily, (if you can call it luck) the tornadoes didn't stay on the ground so only the top halves to giant trees were snapped off. I just happened to be outside about three miles away when it happened, I didn't see anything there was a mountain in between me and the tornado and it was going the other way. (all right all you miswest people can stop saying that doesn't sound that bad - no one here was prepared for it - The weather center released a tornado watch at 3:30, the tornado hit at 3:31.) Okay, here's my taxes - how double chocolate fudge brownies with fudge frosting sound?? Okay, this is actually related to Misty. I noticed there has been a lot of talk about Goddesses and Gods lately. I was just wondering if Vkandis is the counterpart to the Shin'a'in Goddess? I don't know just a thought. I think that's all I had to say, I'm tired but I can't fall asleep because the horrible seventeen locusts are here and making lots of noise. But since I am making very little sense I will shut up now. Love, luck, and lollipops, Mishi "Come Mr. Tallyman, tally me bananas. Daylight come and we wanna go home." (i'm sorry but that song was on the radio and i can't get it out of my head) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 22:51:26 -0600 From: Trouble To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elspeth Message-ID: <19960618045120804.AAA202-+AT+-wildrose.net> At 02:36 06/17/96 +0100, Mat Timmerman wrote: >I don't know. It seems like the mind-magic was more technical in LHM than >in Arrows. All the talk of channels, different modes of Mindspeech >(private vs. public), etc. in LHM sounds more scientific. It's almost >like, in LHM, they knew the "why" of the Gifts, but in Arrows, they know >the "how". It looked to me like Kyril was trying to re-discover things >known in Vanyel's time about the Gifts. All IMHO, of course. :) That would make a lot of sense in my mind. I mean, if I recall, a lot of the old knowledge was lost, after Stef died. And the culture changed as well. From what I recall (I am *way* too tired to run over and get my book. See, I packed it in a fire-proof, water proof box with all my *other* books, and I don't want to search for it. Nope, no fire is hurting MY books!), a lot of the old tales and books hadn't even been looked at in a long time, because of the influence of Stef, 'Fandes, and Van. If the old books weren't looked at any more, then the old knowledge would be forgotten. So the why was forgotten, or ignored, and the how was concentrated on. Hmm... Did that make any sense?? ** Cameron reached out to touch her, grab her, stop the words that shattered what was left of his soul. Mercedes simply turned away. "Good-bye," she said, her voice as cold as ice, as the crimson tears ran down her cheeks. Cameron and Mercedes "Crimson Tears" j.l.pearce ** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 22:51:29 -0600 From: Trouble To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Naming of gods, READ THIS Message-ID: <19960618045120804.AAB202-+AT+-wildrose.net> At 04:22 06/15/96 +0100, David Snyder wrote: > OK, people for the next time, if you want to be a god, goddess, avatar, >high priestess, whatever, LET ME KNOW!!!!! I don't do this out of the Hmm... Can I be named Goddess of Trouble? I always liked ceremonies, and Goddess knows I'm a barrel of Trouble all on my own. Besides, my full given name does mean Trouble... I'd really appreciate this... What a welcome to the list! Trouble ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 22:51:31 -0600 From: Trouble To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Birth Control in Valdemar was:Re: Parenthood and Childhood Message-ID: <19960618045120804.AAC202-+AT+-wildrose.net> At 09:47 06/16/96 +0100, Perkins,Cheryl;=7001696 wrote: >I'm rambling. And I can't think of a ML idea to add. Except there does >seem to be a lack of birth control, and the only illigitimate (sp?) child >I can think of is Van's nephew. If a reliable method of birth control >wasn't available, I'd expect a lot more. > >Cheryl Hmm... Yes there was. It's a long quote, so I'll sum up. Sherril told Talia about it, right when she got her Whites (pg 166, Queen's Own). "It's a powder -- you take some every day except when you're having moon-days..." Something else is tickling at the back of my head too, but I don't know if it was Valdemar, or some of the other hundred million books I've read. Something about a drug called "Child's Bane", that was an abortion plant of sorts. Hard on the body, if I recall... Or maybe that was a Holly Lisle book. Shoot, wish my brain was working today! Trouble ** Cameron reached out to touch her, grab her, stop the words that shattered what was left of his soul. Mercedes simply turned away. "Good-bye," she said, her voice as cold as ice, as the crimson tears ran down her cheeks. Cameron and Mercedes "Crimson Tears" j.l.pearce ** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 15:28:54 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lost knowledge. Message-ID: <9606180528.AA15621-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Trouble wrote: > That would make a lot of sense in my mind. I mean, if I recall, a lot of > the old knowledge was lost, after Stef died. And the culture changed as > well. From what I recall (I am *way* too tired to run over and get my book. > See, I packed it in a fire-proof, water proof box with all my *other* books, > and I don't want to search for it. Nope, no fire is hurting MY books!), a > lot of the old tales and books hadn't even been looked at in a long time, > because of the influence of Stef, 'Fandes, and Van. If the old books > weren't looked at any more, then the old knowledge would be forgotten. So > the why was forgotten, or ignored, and the how was concentrated on. Personally I was -very- disappointed in Stef and Van when I found out that it was they who were responsible for the lost knowledge. A Bard above all others should know the importance on knowledge and to suppress it like that, to the extent that it started catching up related things as well is just plain stupid. Personally, I think the decision to suppress knowledge of magic generally is just gross stupidity - ostrich technique (head in the sand) has never been a favourite of mine. It's not as if they were suppressing -harmful- knowledge, (which is at least arguably slightly better) they were suppressing knowledge that people might need in the future.. They were just damn lucky that things turned out as well as they did when Elspeth decided that she needed to learn magic because of Ancar's threat. (Can you tell I'm not really in the "Suppress Knowledge for their own good" camp? These were ADULTS with knowledge taken away from them, not two year olds being protected from smutty movies. ) Asimov put it most eloquently: "Suppose that we are wise enough to learn and know - and yet not wise enough to control our learning and knowledge, so that we use it to destroy ourselves? Even if that is so, knowledge remains better than ignorance. It is better to know - even if knowledge endures only for the moment that comes before destruction - than to gain eternal life at the price of a dull and swinish lack of comprehension of a universe that swirls unseen before us in all its wonder." - Issac Asimov Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 01:33:03 -0400 From: Shadow-Lover To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Naming of gods, READ THIS Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960618053303.00672a8c-+AT+-popd.ix.netcom.com> At 04:15 AM 6/18/96 +0100, you wrote: >On Sat, 15 Jun 1996, Thess proclaimed: > >> And now back to your regularly scheduled program. I pronounce you >> Shadow-Lover, every man's woman, and every woman's man, Lover to all, and >> married to any who you wish, Lord of the Dead, and leader of Your own > >Oh, come now Lady Thessaly, do play fair. What about every woman's woman >and every man's man? Hmmm? > >Becky hehe... Forgot those didn't she? Well... I CAN do it all, I just await the proclamation! - Shadow-Lover ************************-=E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com=-*********************** * - Stability is based on foundations, and man is made of quicksand... * * - Mortis * * - Hold on to nothing as fast as you can... * * - Tori Amos * *******************************-=IRC: Hairenn=-******************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 01:36:52 -0400 From: Seranna-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Southern Baptists/Arizona/Logical Thinking Message-ID: <960618013651_137284583-+AT+-emout08.mail.aol.com> on 96-06-17 Diana wrote: >The convention reminds me of Karse before the change. Stiff-necked >and their way is the only way. > First: I want to apologize to anyone I may offend. I understand that the majority of Southern Baptists are NOT responsible for the decisions made at the convention in New Orleans. There are plenty down here who are embarassed by this entire debacle, and others who will abide them. These decisions are being made by a just few people, not all. There have been a few interviews down here with the outgoing president, Jim Henry and some of his church members. The final decision (the last one I heard) was that they were going to wait for a year before starting the boycott. Supposedly to give Disney time to REPENT. Disney so far has said ''. Amazingly, the newspaper and tv stations haven't had much to say about it. I guess that says much about the conservative media down here. One of the people (Baptist) interviewed complained that his family had a total of 12 season's passes for Disney. Since the passes are paid for, he will still take his family, but won't buy any food or gifts. Interesting interpretation of the boycott, isn't it? This is one reason I have trouble with organizations that are able to interpret things their way and make sure the members follow only their interpretation. Any other way to interpret something is anathema and must be guided or healed. Although we suffer with a conservative press & TV news (in Central Fl.), we are lucky to have a talk radio station whose hosts are not afraid to think independently. One of the questions on the air has been: since the Southern Baptists are boycotting Disney, will the hundreds (thousands?) of Disney employees who are Baptists resign as a protest? HMM? Today I heard that they have declared that the next project is to actively try to guide Jews to the correct path, Jesus Christ. (No, I'm not kidding. It was on our news) First homosexuals, then Jews, next? Sorry about the diatribe. Any type of close mindedness drives me stark raving mad! Organizations that try to foster ignorance in their members by ensuring that they hear only the official word and think only the official thoughts are frightening. I am amazed that they can get people to give up their right to think for themselves. Religious closed mindedness (fundamentalism?) is some of the worst. Any belief other than the official, is sacriligious. Again, I want to apologize if I have offended. I do not want to challenge or threaten anyone's beliefs. I am apalled when people want to deny others the right to believe as they will, and I only challenge those who think they can do just that. Of course, religion is not the only organization who has this problem. Politics....hmm...that is a subject that REALLY gets me going! But I avoid talking about politics more than I do religion, so y'all are safe. BTW, I don't think God will turn her back at anyone who believes, regardless of religion. I am now getting off the soap box! ``````````````````` On 6-17 Alifarr" >Actually, its Arizona's best kept secret that summer means >thunderstorms, high humidity and funnel clouds about twice a week all >summer long. That dry heat stuff went bye-bye when they paved Phoenix. Just great! Arizona has been my dream destination for years! I have so many allergies, they are always in season here. I thought that the dry heat in Arizona would give me some relief! Oh well, I guess it's back to daydreaming about a space station - no, that wouldn't work...probably too many molds. ~~~~~~~~~~ On 6-17 , Kerry wrote: >Hope this is what you wanted. :) > I've just realized I even approach fashion logically. How depressing. > Hey, there is nothing wrong logical thinking. It makes more sense to approach something systematically; you're sure not to miss anything that way. Well, I guess you can say that you are not alone! Logical (methodical) thinkers untie! Oops - unite! ~~~~~~~~ No OBMISTY today, I will try to do better next time. Sorry for the long note, I promise to hide the soap box. Seranna If God had wanted us to be dull, she wouldn't have given us adjectives. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 23:36:16 -0600 From: Trouble To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Books again, gryphons, and pegasoi, oh my! Message-ID: <19960618053603181.AAD224-+AT+-wildrose.net> At 10:19 06/17/96 +0100, Clarissa Smith/Claris Boii wrote: > >I've been wondering lately why Misty used gryphons so prominently in >Velgarth. They don't seem like an obvious choice (maybe that's why); in >fact, I almost skipped the Gryphon books just 'cause gryphons have never >been my favorite fantasy creatures. Maybe she figured the market was >glutted with dragons. What about the pegasus logo on the Valdemaran >Herald gear? Is there any explanation for that, or are the wings just a >metaphor for the Companions' powers? Maybe there are pegasoi hiding out >in the mountains somewhere. I thought it was a metaphor, from the song "Wind Rider Unchained." Do you have a copy of Magic's Price? It's in the songs in the back. Which brings me to a different point. I've always wanted the history of Valedmar to be fleshed out more. What's going on in the WindRider song? And Sunsinger and Shadowdancer? I would love to read a story about those first Heralds. Or, perhaps, that child of Meke's who was Chosen... *think think think* Nope, can't remember the name. *smile* > >YT, Herald Rythkana aka Claris aka art student who has no ideas whatsoever >for her final project....argh! Hmm... Art as in creating the stuff, or art as in studying the stuff. Me, I love Art History, but couldn't draw to save my soul. *sigh* Trouble Darlord returns, and by fear is confounded -- Flees the avenger, Windrider unchained! ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 624 *********************************